Thursday, August 09, 2007

Voting With Their Feet

At Immigration Watch International they have the numbers for those fleeing Britain:

Britain is facing a mass exodus of people looking to escape the crime and grime of modern living. The country’s biggest foreign visa consultancy firm has revealed that applications have soared in the last seven months by 80 per cent to almost 4,000 a week. Ten years ago the figure was just 300 a week. Most people are relocating within the Commonwealth — in Australia, Canada and South Africa. They are almost all young professionals and skilled workers aged 20-40.

And many cite their reason for wanting to quit as immigration to these shores — and the burden it is placing on their communities and local authorities. The dearth of good schools, spiraling house prices, rising crime and tax increases are also driving people away.

Like any situation in which there is a lack of resources, enterprising individuals step in to fill the gap:

Liam Clifford, a former immigration control officer, set up as a one-man band 12 years ago. He now employs 60 people and is in the process of opening new offices in both South Africa and Australia. Mr. Clifford said: “It’s absolutely phenomenal. People are trying to get away to wherever they can, and most are successful. “Ironically, one of the main reasons for leaving is the overstretch of services due to increasing immigration into the UK. People are looking for the better standard of living offered by other countries, as even the most idyllic villages in Britain are under pressure from rising populations.

Skilled labour is obviously an advantage, but so is speaking the English language. Most countries are harder to get into if you don’t speak English. UK plc simply isn’t fighting hard enough to keep its people. Some are telling us they are fed up with living in this country. Even business people are saying they’ve had enough. “They’re saying I can’t put my children into the right school, but if I move abroad I can’. Most people are very patriotic and don’t want to leave. They’re almost terrified about it. But they say they just have to.

Mr. Clifford says about his customers:

“And time and time again they are saying to us they don’t want to be seen as racist because they are quitting because of immigration. We tell them of course they’re not.”

There is no emoticon after that last sentence, so I’m not sure how Mr. Clifford wants us to take this last statement. Since he is obviously making a great deal of money from his clients, it would behoove him to remain diplomatic. I don’t think it’s racist to feel pushed out of a once beloved neighborborhood that has become unfamiliar and dangerous. No one signed on to live in what appears to be an oupost of Pakistan. And who’d want to be on the tube when some zealous “youth” decides to blow himself up whilst sitting next to you?

For my part, I’d love to see some Brits show up here. Doesn’t seem likely though.

[post ends here]


Simon de Montfort said...

Yes, my lady, I was just telling someone on another thread about how many hundreds of thousands of Britons are living abroad as expatriates for 350 days a year

They are probably renting their houses to Polish and Roumanian imigrants. Younger Britons, as you noted, as simply leaving for good and heading for the Dominions and the Dependencies in the Caribbean.

Strangely, more than a few 'yuppies' are taking jobs as civil servants in former Briish colonies in Africa. Access to foreign currency can make Everyman a kind in Zimbabwe/Rhodesia ( although I hear they are going to officially change the name of that Godforsaken country to Hell on Earth )

It seems to be disproportionately people from the Home Counties ( along the southern coast of England ) and London who are taking flight--and guess what: that is were most of the immigrants are settling in.

Rural England is still England, but ALL--I said ALL--the cities and most of the towns are infested

Yes, I said 'infested', and I fully realise the connotation of that term. I could have said 'invaded', as in 'have been invaded'; I could have said 'overrun", as in "are being overrun"

You wanna quibble?

Dymphna is right: the Muslim. NorthAgrican / Middle Eastern/ South Asian / East European invasion of Western Europe in the past decades is UNPRECEDENTED in all of human history

All of history is the movement of peoples, but it is the GRADUAL migration of people, not the massive government-assisted invasion / infestation that we are seeing these past dozen years or so

I have a solution, but it is......exteme

Anonymous said...

Simon, what is your solution? Please? Give those of us who are thinking they will have to leave the UK an alternative, even if it is......


Unknown said...


In 1962, after being independent, algerians get ride of french.

In 1975, all portuguese flew off former portuguese colonies.

More recently, white people had to left zimbabwe.


If we dont do it now they will , are already doing so, do it against us.

Vol-in-Law said...

D: "For my part, I’d love to see some Brits show up here. Doesn’t seem likely though."

I'm planning to move from UK to southern USA (where my wife is from) in a few years. Getting the timing right is a challenge.
Even though you guys have big immigration problems, at least you have guns. The British Bill of Rights (1688) says we have the right to bear arms, but it was taken from us by stealth long before I was born - not by Act of Parliament, mind you, but by government restrictions after WW1 and WW2. The British unfortunately were used to trusting their government, and now they're starting to wake up, it's too late.

Simon de Montfort said...

There are layers and levels of my 'Five-Year Plan', Mr. Smith. It's like an onion--or maybe a maze of Modest Proposals

I'm still composing, and I'm probably half-crazy or worse

Re-sructuring a modern industrial high-tech society to radically decrease the need for unskilled and semi-skilled workers is Extreme

Using the power of government to prohibit businesses which are not 'vital' but employ large numbers of unskilled workers is extreme.

Prohibiting non-vital products made domestically which are 'labour-intensive' is........

and that's just the economic apects. I haven't gotten to the mass round-ups and deportations yet

Hear the screams of protest? The outraged shrieks of Decent People insisting that I/we/you cannot do such things?

oh yes we can; and if we don't do Such Things and a lot more--and soon--our civilisation will die

Simon de Montfort said...

vol-in-law, the 1688 'Bill of Rights' established Parliamentary supremacy--not 'citizen supremacy' as the American Bill of Rights did.

1688 limited the power of the Sovereign; 1790 limited the power of government

big ( substantial, consequential ) difference: Yanks have guns; Limeys/ Pommies/ Sassenachs don't

Anonymous said...

Simon de Montfort,

'Composing' sounds like you have a larger piece of text in mind. Sounds very interesting, I'd like to know when you've made enough progress to be happy about putting a few 'modest proposals' up online. Maybe you could drop me a comment at my own blog to let me know once you're ready? Could be something that big UK blog, A Tangled Web could bring some attention to as well, if you're interested.

Your point about Decent People and the necessity for 'Such Things' as an alternative to the death of our civilisation is interesting, somewhat reminiscent of that old saw 'desperate times call for desperate measures'. I wonder just how desperate we should be, and how people could/should be woken up to that. Thank God for the blogosphere and GoV, eh?

Unknown said...

Simon de Montfort,

This article was great confirmation of what you told me on the other thread. (I did believe you, but there is that saying "trust, but verify".) If it is happening in the IK, I imagine it is happening all over Europe. I think it is because the individual no longer trusts their own government to protect or support their culture. Putting myself in their shoes, if I thought I had a government that was fighting the good fight to maintain prevent/reverse what is happening I would stay. But when all the evidence is that the government is not only NOT fighting, but actively assisting the 7th century infestation, then, as I individual, I would have to leave, not just for mt future, but for my kids.

Vol-in-law - I live in the southern USA, after growing up in NY, and I think it is the best place I have ever lived.

snowonpine said...

I recently traveled to England after an absence of 20 years and, despite what I had read about the English being swamped and displaced by immigrants--many of them Muslims-- I was shocked to see that the area around the British Museum looked much more like what I imagined Peshawar or Hong Kong to look like than the England that I remembered. Touring England, Scotland and Wales, I couldn’t help but notice that many churches were closed, had been sold, or converted into restaurants or concert venues. According to our guide--this just two weeks before the first Tube bombing--some churches in London, had, ironically, been turned into welcome/social centers for the hoards of Muslim immigrants who had displaced Englishmen in neighborhoods these churches formerly served.

It seems that your government, media, most churchmen and academics in England have a death wish and wish to see England and Englishmen conquered, else why so enthusiastically cooperate in their demise? A recent prime example was the news that instead of investigating and charging the Muslims they recorded for what they said and advocated, your police were investigating TV Channel 4 because it broadcast its highly alarming undercover investigation of what is preached at major mosques in Britain,

Hate speech laws have been passed making it a crime to express yourselves as being against Islam or examining its pernicious and deadly doctrines and anyone who wants to sent these invaders packing is labeled what, a fascist; Oswald Mosely and his blackshirts come back again?

Isn’t there any party or group in England that is working against this invasion and takeover that could possibly get its members elected to Parliament in numbers sufficient to turn things around?

I must confess that things have gone so far, so fast that I don’t think a rebellion by the traditional yeomen with pitchforks will be sufficient, although I can see some sort of civil war as a distinct possibility.

With the deck so completely stacked against you, flight may, indeed, be the best course for Englishmen.

Abu Abdullah said...

Dymphna: "For my part, I’d love to see some Brits show up here. Doesn’t seem likely though."

Legal immigration into the United States is very difficult, except perhaps through marriage.

snowonpine: "Isn’t there any party or group in England that is working against this invasion and takeover that could possibly get its members elected to Parliament in numbers sufficient to turn things around?"

The only party of some political clout that is doing this is the white nationalist British National Party. Many are joining not because they agree with its platform of white nationalism but because the main parties are not addressing the legitimate serious concern of the indigenous population regarding the destabilizing effects of mass immigration on British society.

Chris Bering said...

Simon de Montfort,

I find your proposals completely outrageous.
Such a level of bureaucratic interference with peoples' property, free enterprise and the free market will lead to disaster.

I propose the following:

1) Void all citizenships doled out since 1970. Also void descendants citizenships.

2) 1st gen. immigrants can under no circumstances get citizenship. A child is considered a 1st gen. immigrant if it's older than 8 years at the time of immigration.
Younger children are considered 2nd gen.

3) Immigrants are only allowed to enter the country if an agreement of "cooperation in the event of expulsion" exists with their country of origin.

4) Immigrant crime, drug abuse or status of "enemy of the people" is cause for immediate deportation.

By "enemy of the people" I mean someone who through action, expression or association makes it clear they don't accept certain fundamental values of society and rights of citizens.
Only citizens have the right to question fundamentals of society without being regarded as enemies of the people.

5) Children of mixed citizen/immigrant couples gets citizenship, unless the child is over 8 years old or the citizen parent is a recent criminal, addict, wellfare recipient or a current mental patient.
In that case the child gets status as a 2nd gen. immigrant.

"Recent criminal" could be taken to mean someone who, during the past 10 years, have commited crimes punishable by more than 6 months imprisonment in total.

6) 2nd, 3rd and later gen. immigrants can earn citizenship.
The requirement is that they have paid taxes on work income totalling the state budget per capita multiplied by 20.
Citizenship can't be granted to anyone older than 50.

7) Non-citizens can't vote and can't recieve any kind of state wellfare benefits directly or indirectly.

8) Asylum seekers are the only exception. They get a grace period of 3 years, during which they recieve an allowance keeping them clothed and fed.
After that, their status changes to 1st gen. immigrant.

9) Citizens paying annual taxes on work income amounting to less than the state budget per capita divided by 2, can't vote.

That's my basic proposal. What do you think ?

Unknown said...

Why are they going to South Africa? South Africa is Europe's grim future if we continue to import third worlders. Why are they fleeing the comparative safety of Britain for what is really, right now, a crime and aids infested third world hellhole where most of the native whites are leaving anyway? Either they're really dumb, or woefully uniformed about the real South Africa due to rainbow nation propaganda.

Unknown said...

4) Immigrant crime, drug abuse or status of "enemy of the people" is cause for immediate deportation.

What do you do in the case of minors?

6) 2nd, 3rd and later gen. immigrants can earn citizenship.

Indefinitely? Or to a limit? And what would you do in the case of a child born to one indigenous parent and one immigrant? Because the longer any family has been in a country, the more chance their children will marry out.

9) Citizens paying annual taxes on work income amounting to less than the state budget per capita divided by 2, can't vote.

Would you include university students and retirees in this?

Simon de Montfort said...

Yes, chris bering, I agreee with you, and find my own proposals ( such as they were ) outrageous--for the very reasons you name. Your Proposals are more thoughtful and complete than mine, but we are both flailing against a very strong tide--a North Sea tide, which makes most other tides look like lazy swirls

I realise the inherent absurdity of asking government ( which played a major role in creating this crisis ) to solve it.

But, when you are Teetering on the Brink........

I was trying to address the Standard Argument that the Asian / Muslim invasion is simply the product of "they take the jobs that Euros are not willing to do".
I think that there is a role for government to meddle in the Market in several limited areas to help stem the flood of Alleged Job-seekers.

Government meddling in the workplace in the UK goes back to the first child labor laws in the 1840s, which set a minimum age of 8 to work in the mines. I think that job-seekers are only a small part of The Problem, but the basic ideas I proposed will do some good--and more importantly, will take away the excuse that many use to hide or ignore what is really going on.

It isn't just 'big business' or multi-national corporatons which create a demand for labour, but the many 'small business' franchises which seek low-wage workers. I see no reason to allow upper-middle class people to start a business which in order to gain a profit will offer wages so low and working conditions so poor that these jobs of works will only be done by recent immigrants.

I know, I know: the 'cradle to grave' welfare states throughout the EU discourage people from working, and that is a matter of making THAT area of government smaller--but Good Luck with getting that reduction accomplished.

"Gi-normus" government is already a reality in Europe; one might as well use it to take measures which dampen immigration rather than facilitate it

Simon de Montfort said...

rohan the Yank, the American government, like all the EU ( former ) governments, stopped fighting what you and I would consider 'the good fight' a long time ago. How much they are actively working against our interests--as opposed to simply pursuing what they perceive as their vested interests--is a matter for Lengthy Debate.

America, where I lived for more than a few years, has its own Hostile Unassimilating Immigration Problem, as you already know. If you are in the Former Confederacy, you are likely less exposed to it, but what makes the current Onslaught so dangerous is that--as in Europe--the current wave is unprecedented.

It is fast, assisted by government programs and policies, and the Participants are openly UNwilling to assimilate: to learn the language, to follow the societal norms, or to become in any way "Americanised".

Britons can flee to Australia and to enclaves in the RSA ( and to Canada for the time being ), or even to exotic bits of the former Empire like Turks & Caicos and the Cayman Islands.

Where you gonna go?

Chris Bering said...


What do you do in the case of minors?

As a basic rule - deportation.
Either their parents leave with the child or it becomes the problem of the extended family or authorities back home.

Having said that, my proposal is the abbreviated version. As I have already alluded to, "criminal", "wellfare recipient", "enemy of the state" and so on, needs precise definitions for each context.
No, a 12 year old caught stealing a candybar for the first time shouldn't be deported.
Yes, an 11 year old helping his bigger brothers and cousins out, when on mugging sprees, gets deported.

Indefinitely? Or to a limit? And what would you do in the case of a child born to one indigenous parent and one immigrant? Because the longer any family has been in a country, the more chance their children will marry out.

See 5):
Children of mixed citizen/immigrant couples gets citizenship, unless the child is over 8 years old or the citizen parent is a recent criminal, addict, wellfare recipient or a current mental patient.
In that case the child gets status as a 2nd gen. immigrant.

As a rule, children of immigrants "marrying out" should recieve citizenship.
The caveat is there to prevent exploitation of "weak" citizens.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Indefinitely? Or to a limit?".
Imo, descendants should be able to earn full citizenship.

A possible addition to 4) is that any children of a deported has their status changed to 1st gen.
If no one is left to care for the child it will of course accompany the deported.

Would you include university students and retirees in this?
- tax dependent voting rights.

Students - yes.

Retirees - it's a tradeoff.
In a perfect world, the wisdom of the most senior citizens would be a welcome input to the democratic decision making process.
But we don't live in a perfect world, and lately, the "wisdom" of many pensioners seems a bit lacking.
In the ageing European nations, pensioners are just another hugely powerful special interests group, lobbying politicians for more entitlements.
Most European pensioners are active people that don't consider themselves old. They want to spend their remaining time on earth as pleasurable as possible.
This is fine and understandable - as long as they don't vote themselves to their childrens wealth.
A generation ago this wasn't a concern, since such behaviour was unthinkable.
What we have now, is a gigantic pyramid scheme. People live the good life, avoiding too much of that tiresome activity, child rearing, that is in the way of self- realization and indulgence.
Pyramid schemes always comes to the same end - the last generation is left holding the bag.
If people know they can't vote when they're retired, maybe they'll vote for more longterm sustainable strategies while they do have a vote - thus dismantling the pyramid scheme.

Btw, the tax limit I set, amounts to about $10,000 in Denmark. Any full time job and almost any part time job would be enough to get above that limit. But a divider of 2 is just a suggestion.

Unknown said...

Simon de Monfort

Cool, never been called a Yank before. (Actually my father, born in Massachusetts, and my mother, born in Connecticut, insisted you were not a Yankee unless you were born in MA, CT, ME, RI, NH or VT. NY definitely did NOT count.)

You are right that the USA has a massive invasion force coming in from south of the border. North Carolina does have a huge illegal immigrant problem. Our school districts have to spend hundreds of millions building new schools to educate ILLEGAL kids! It's ridculous. At least enough of us rose up and killed the horrible Amnesty Bill our government tried to ram down our throats. Today I heard there will be more strident efforts made to combat illegal immigration. (I'm sure that has nothing to do with the start of the new campaign season!) So, I agree with everything you said but I still think there is hope in the USA.

As to where I would go? I thought about that a lot, and finally figured I'm not going anywhere. I'm sticking and fighting any way I can. Having kids focuses your thoughts on their future. Worst case, I'll buy acreage in Maine. I've got lots of relatives that are true Yankees and would welcome us back up there.

Dymphna said...

Simon –

When I went to the doctor’s today – near Richmond, VA – I read two articles in the local papers detailing problems that counties and local governments are having with the influx of immigrants, legal or otherwise. They are poor, poorly educated, and many receive (or apply for) welfare benefits. They are inundating the schools and despite the barrier places like Hazleton Pennsylvania have experienced these localities seem determined to set limits on the benefits they will provide for people who are not registered as citizens in their areas and to do not contribute to the tax base.

This is going to be a long fight. It will be different than it was in California, where everyone is from somewhere else. Virginia is a very traditional, conservative state – that is, if you don’t count northern Virginia which is full of federal government workers. Large parts of Virginia are rural and generations of families tend to remain in one place.

The Baron is a Virginian, and he has raised his son with the idea that a person should not move too far from home. Thus the fB will be living and working in his native state. The idea that children’s first responsibility after college is to find a job that pays far more than any 22 year old is mature enough to handle is not an idea our family finds congenial.

My point is a cultural one. Our decision to home school our son was based on our desire to avoid P. C. propaganda. We thought it would be easier to teach him correctly the first time rather than having him face the difficult task of unlearning garbage.

A sense of place, a knowledge of belonging, and a good grasp of the importance of continuity are the basics in each family needs. Wheat are fortunate in America that the barriers two home schooling have largely come down –thanks to the people who went before us.

The number of people fleeing Britain is an indication of how desperate things have become. So many people leaving home is a sign of a toxic environment. I feel sympathy for their plight.

By the way, one of the nicest things about leaving Massachusetts was the fact that no longer had to waste my vote by *not* voting for Teddy Kennedy. If you move back to Maine, just think, you’ll be stuck with Olympia Snowe…

Dymphna said...

sorry for the typos above. i am using voice recognition software in order to be able to make comments and it sometimes 'translates' my speech into garble --i.e., 'wheat are' is supposed to be 'we are'... and so on.

Simon de Montfort said...

Dymphna, watch out for the Rotating Knives Device that some doctors are now using in their surgeries........

There are interesting parallels in the Hostile Unassimilated Immigration crises in America and the EU, with differences and essential similarities

Better Craftsmen have already explained them: Fjordman and Mark Steyn have probably covered most of the ground: Most of the wave washing over the USA is Hispanic, so while there is a language and culture 'shock' the religious background is compatible

But as you noted, most of the illegals and many of the legal immigrants from South of the Border are not exactly fervent church-going folks, and the families of Latinos are breaking down.

Imigrants on both sides of the Pond are not assimilating, and that to me is the Crucial Problem. Not only are many of these people not assimilating, many of them are openly, overtly hostile.

I still have a vivid memory of a woman at Heathrow waiting in the boarding lounge for a flight to Toronto. She didn't hear the announcement that the disabled and those with children could board early ( she had two young children ). When I leaned over to tell her she could board now, she gave me a look that contained surprise and a bit of fear, but was mostly pure hatred.

I have relatives and friends in Arlington / McLean, and lived in that area for a few years a while ago. It is beautiful, but it is filling up with Somalis and Sikhs and Pakistanis and others who hardly speak English--and seem to want everyone to know that they have NOT been Americanised.

arch said...

For 20 years I lived outside Buffalo NY and my job as a defense electronics executive took my to the UK (mostly to London) four to six weeks per year. In fact, I spent more time in London than in downtown Buffalo. Who could blame me?

Changes in UK have been dramatic. It seems that no Englishman below the rank of managing director works in any hotel in zones 1 & 2. One morning, as I was checking out of my hotel near Regent's Park, two American women asked the French girls manning the desk how to get to Portobello Road. They did not know.

"Walk up the hill 100 meters to the Great Portland Street Station, " I told them, " and take a westbound Circle line train to Notting Hill Gate. Take the northwest exit, walk 30 meters, turn right and follow the crowd." At that point I realized that everyone in the lobby was staring at me - an American whose ancestors had all left England in the 17th century. I was the most English person there. Sad.

Last year I retired and moved to the sunny South from whence I came. I love it.

Vol-in-Law said...

Re South Africa - there are many white South Africans in London now, they love to talk about how great post-apartheid SA is. Funny how they've fled here then! Still, many get homesick and long to go back to their beautiful country.

Abu Abdullah said...

South Africa borrowed the positive discrimination policy of Malaysia in the hope of improving the general living condition of its economically disadvantaged majority. Things have not worked out as planned in Malaysia, with the ruling oligarchy and their toadies subverting a well-intentioned policy to rob the nation blind and doing grievous harm to all institutions of the country. This process unfolded over the last three decades or so and Malaysia is well on its way to ruination, shiny facade of modernity not withstanding. Based on the Malaysian experience, I am quite sure South Africa will become another failed state on the Dark Continent in two to three generations. The common signs are already there anyway, e.g., increasing lawlessness, the rise of ever more bizarre and inept politicians, acts of violence by Muslim fundamentalists, and emigration of the frustrated middle class to safer countries (the so-called chicken run). With these in mind, why would a sane person want to move there?