Friday, March 07, 2008

Why Should They Be Here?

As we have reported previously, under the influence of the second Motoon crisis, Denmark has become remarkably united in its opposition to Islamic threats and extortion.

Danish Social Democrats are now going on the offensive. They propose to pay Muslims — even those with Danish citizenship — to leave the country if they don’t like Denmark or the Danes.

At Henrik’s suggestion, the text below was translated by TB from a transcript at Snaphanen of a Danish Public Radio broadcast. The speaker is Helle Thorning-Schmidt, the leader of the Danish Social Democrats:

All these people living in Denmark with a foreign background, they should have a choice. They should choose whether they wish to be part of the Danish community, with all the norms and rules that we have in Danish society, or whether in fact they would prefer to be another place.

And this is a message to all of those who support Hizb ut-Tahrir: If they have so much against our way of life and all the freedom we have in Denmark, then it might be a good idea to be in another place; but this is also an offer to those who never really fit in right, who maybe came here in the ’70s, and are actually not that happy about Denmark and would rather go home.

Why not raise the repatriation check amount, and give them an offer so that one in reality should choose whether one wants to be in Denmark and be part of Danish society, or whether one in reality should be another place.
- - - - - - - - -

I don’t say that they should travel to another country with a check. I say that every single citizen living in Denmark should preferably be here for the right reasons, because they wish to live in Denmark, perhaps because they like Denmark and the Danes.

So this is a message that every single individual should find out within himself whether he actually wants to be in Denmark with all this democracy we have, with all this freedom that we have. Is this what one really wants? And therefore the check should be large enough, so that in reality it becomes a real choice for the citizens who maybe do not even want to be in Denmark.

Why should they be here?


. said...

Hello Dymphna, it will be interesting to see how your other posters responde to this quite sensible suggestion from the Danish Social Democrat.

I know that on LGF commenters would probably start saying "To hell with paying them money, just kick them out with the burqas on their back - put 'em on leaky rafts if necessary!"

In the past my quite sensible suggestions that Palestinians be paid by Israel and the West to move to another country was met with "make the Arabs pay for it!" and "when they pay back all the Jews kicked out of Middle Eastern countries in the 1950's, we'll start paying back the Arabs!" As if any Jew or his/her descendants kicked out of Iraq or Syria in the 1950's isn't immeasurably better off in Israel already than they would have been if they had been allowed to stay in those hellholes ...

John Sobieski said...

I don't see why they should pay but it's better than saying they should stay and the West should change. My position is 'don't like it? then get the hell out.' Strip troublemakers of their citizenship, test those seeking citizenship for allegiance and if they cause trouble, kick them out.

Sodra Djavul said...

I'll bite, Gordon. From the American perspective, the government paying them to leave doesn't make a whole lot of sense. After all, no one asked them to immigrate in the first place. That was an economic desire to improve their standard of living. And I understand that. However, what escapes most immigrants, particularly those afflicted with the Arab psyche (dependence on government, institutionalized bribery as normal business practice, etc.) is that the very reason they chose to immigrate in the first place, the free and open economic systems, were based on concepts of free and open societies. By removing the foundation on which the open economy was built through "accomodation" of practices considered preferential within Arab societies, you will inadvertently destroy the primary reason these countries have net positive immigration flow.

I don't think the Danes should pay them to leave. They should simply make it clear that their "old world" customs are completely contrary to their supposedly adopted culture, and make it uncomfortable enough that they will choose to either assimilate or leave of their own devices.

But then again, I approach this from an American perspective.

- Sodra

spackle said...

While I dont think there will be many takers I think it is a good idea. In the end the Muslims will not return to the hell hole from whence they came, money or not. They will continue on there present course of constant whining and violence and prove once and for all that the only solution left is forced deportation.

Spinoneone said...

spackle has it right. The Muslims will fall back on hudna, taqqiya, and other feints and dodges in an effort not only to stay but to subvert the Danish people and government as well. Kick the bastards out if they don't get with the program and to hell with any idea of "ethnic cleansing" or other such crap. The right of self-defense in the face of Muslim efforts at genocide against not just the Danes but Western Civilization as a whole should take precedence.

Bert said...

This is an interesting idea. I think the Feedom Party of Geert Wilders also once mentioned something similar. In the Netherlands, a respected economist calculated the costs of immigrants against the benifits in 1999.

It turned out the immigrants in The Netherlands are a substantial loss, in 1999 at about 6 billion euro's (and counting) per year. The Moroccan and Turkish immigrants alone allready did already cost the society way over 30 billion euro's in the previous twenty years (up till 1999).

Recently I read an article (if I find it again, I will post the link) that stated if non-Western immigrants are payed an attractive and substantial premium to go home, and they all go, it will pay back after ten years. It will save the enormous immigrant related costs to welfare benifits, housing, health care, special schooling, integration-courses, translators, language-courses, swimming-courses, dialogue programs, islam-networks, security, crime, justice- and prison costs and damage and loss to property of citizens.

Its in anyway absolute value for money: it will do the remigrating immigrants good for they can finally live well with the Sharia they want, and society will benefit for the immigrants that stay don't have any other demand but for joining in and enjoy with the Westerners the Western values and traditions.

The society will become an awful lot safer, more relaxed and citizens can enjoy their cities and freedom again. If the govenment also cuts subsidies, especially those to activists (Leftists like the immigration lawyers, the anti-discrimination Stasi, animalrights, environmentalists, "anti"-fascists, etc) it will pay back even sooner.

Ethelred said...

This is not the first time this idea has been floated.

BTW, I was banned from LGF for suggesting this kind of thing, but that is another story.

I am for it, but only if it is coupled with the statement MADE IN COMPLETE CLARITY that Arabs/Muslims MUST accommodate to Denmark, not vice versa - AND BACK IT UP.

In the end, though, the problem originates in the acceptance of religion as a way of organizing your life. Islam is a religion (so they say) and hence its life-organization is as valid as any other religion.

czarnyman said...

Why should anyone be permitted to emigrate to another country without consent of the country in question?

Has Western Europe not only allowed but encouraged the current invasion of the Muslim hordes which now besiege the gates of Christendom? Has not Europe abandoned the values and culture which made it the cradle of all of civilization, the seat of science, literature and law?

Europe, and in a similar circumstance North America, has imported this necrotizing and virulent infection known as Islam, tolerating and even fostering the intolerable and the intolerant at its own mortal peril. If our Danish colleagues believe that the purveyors of the "Religion of Peace" will quietly go home, money in hand, they need to reconsider the insanity that impelled them to allow the entry of this disease into its house in the first place.

Have they learned nothing from history?


Please see my latest Exercise For All and spread the word around the blogosphere.

Alexis said...

This proposal by the Danish Social Democrats could have an interesting twist concerning the "reparations" controversy in the United States.

Although the United States Constitution has a provision against ex post facto laws, there is a movement (that Barack Obama supports) to have the federal government pay reparations to the descendants of slaves. There are many ethical problems with paying reparations to people who have neither a corporate identity nor any living victim of enslavement. Still, I have wondered about the feasibility of allowing those who think of themselves as descendants of slaves (as opposed to descendants of maroons) who truly feel they aren't Americans to "cash out" their citizenship and go to an exile of their choice.

Of course, such "reparation" would be more of a curse than a blessing for the recipients. Moreover, I am concerned that American wives of Saudi men would be forced to sell off their citizenship and be thus denied any hope of refuge from an abusive household. If cashing out one's citizenship had been an option in 1977, Jim Jones would likely have ordered his followers to cash out their citizenships and would have gained yet another lever of power over them. The phenomenon of cashing out one's citizenship would become an open bazaar for swindlers and slavers, for citizenship extortion would become a lucrative venture.

Al-lat said...

Why pay the islamics? That's bribery! And they'll KNOW it - and laugh at the "infidels."

Just sweep 'm out. Don't like it there, they're free to leave. GO!

Diamed said...

Paying them to leave might be a solution. History says otherwise though. The English kept paying the danish viking raiders to leave, but they just kept coming back for more, until they eventually conquered England and settled in as the new rulers. The lure of free money will only encourage more immigrants.

Ultimately this is not a battle with islam, but a question of national will. If Europe has the will to live, it will simply deport all the muslims and ignore their whines. If it does not, it won't have even the feeble strength to pay muslims off or seal their borders from further immigration.

Bela said...

Are you dreaming? The Danes will be crushed by millions of "Former Gordons" whose civil rigths are violated by Fascist, Nazi, Neo-con Bush-Hitlers, Right wing thugs. Are you hallucinating?
Sarko, Merkel and Miliband just now officially proclaimed the inception of Mediterranean Eurabia in which Islam is integral part of the EU.
I am serious and you are not.
Danes will be silenced just like everybody else not in line with the Marxist creed and "Gordon" will be pleased.
And I assure you the States are not far behind: did you ever expect that a "Hussein" can be president after 9/11? -that Congo Leeza will be representing the King of Saud?
Poor Danes your days are numbered.
Read the neighborhood's literature namely -
they are trembling with fear of Wilder and the forum is full Islamofascist sycophants condemning the freedom of speech...
Ha Ho, Ha Ho! wake up time!

Afonso Henriques said...

"All these people living in Denmark with a foreign background, they should have a choice. (...) They should choose (...) whether in fact they would prefer to be another place. (...) It might be a good idea to be in another place; but this is also an offer to those who never really fit in right, who maybe came here in the ‘70s’, and are actually not that happy about Denmark and would rather go home.
(...) Why not raise the repatriation check amount, and give them an offer so that one in reality should choose whether one (...) should be another place.
(...) Why should they be here?"

Well, it is pretty neo Nazi, it is extreem right to me, just as Vlaams Belang or Front National. Nice!

Good to know that it is really happening. I think that it is a frankly good way to go.
"Why should they be here?"
They shouldn't.

Denmark is Dane. I hope it to remain so. Long live the Danish people!

ΛΕΟΝΙΔΑΣ said...

If it can be determined that these muslimes are unwilling to assimilate, the Danes should follow the British model of the 18th century: transport them to an overseas possession, Greenland!

ole said...

Don't despair
This is only the beginning
The Danes are not easily crushed
500 years ago, when Catolic emperors tried to wipe out the reformation,it was the danes that counteratacked deep into germany,saving the protestant moovement and with it the potential for freedom of thought.
Later on in the war ,when the danes were close to being warn out, the sweedes took over and wan the war.
This is the only time that scandinavia has been decisive for the direction of european history.

Afonso Henriques said...

Well, my comenting on the other commenters was crashed so, i will only say that the Greek guy knows it all!

Ha! And, yes, pay them, it is a very good thing to be done! Pay them all!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Uh, Bela, did you forget your meds today?

As I understand it, Denmark and the other European nations promoted Muslim immigration in the hopes of bolstering their (cheap) labor force. Why they did so with people who are notoriously short on work ethic is a mystery, but we'll let that go for now.

The easy prediction is that a one-time payoff offer will not fly. Muslims will be outraged at the idea that their Dhimmi financed meal ticket would be cut off and will demand that, if they move, the payments must continue in perpetuity. The notion that they are not wanted will be seen as an insult to Islam because Islam and the Muslim are inseparable and refusal to accept Muslim culture is an insult to Allah which we all know is punishable by death and why should condemned heretics have any right to dictate terms on anything?

SEOULDIER13 said...


eenis said...

AMAZING! I am not the only one who sees our civilization under siege from Islam. As an Albanian American you need only too look at Albania to see what forced Islam can do to a people, it makes me sick to think that over 70 percent of Albania has been conquered by the islamists. keep up the good work guys.

Anonymous said...

I'm surprised by some of the negative comments against this proposal. This is the only humane way to address the problem. Pay them enough so that they can re-settle back in their former Crapistans and not want to come back. (Luckily the cost of living in most Crapistans are very cheap -- you could probably build a palace in Pakistan, for example, for $50k.) It's important to accompany the proposal with 1.) ensure tight border/citizenship control, so that they can't come back and 2.) to make them sign a contract forfeiting all Danish/EU citizenship rights in exchange for the money, with the proviso that they will be instantly deported if they are found to have breached the contract by returning. As a further incentive, cut their welfare benefits before making the re-settlement proposal. As someone said above, "let them cash out their citizenship." BTW, this is the same proposal that Nick Griffin has floated for the Muhammadens of Britain. He wanted to pay them 100K each to leave. Expensive, but much of the money would be recouped in decreased welfare, prison, and security costs (40 percent of the Muslim working age men in Britain are unemployed -- the amount of welfare savings from re-settlement would be astronomical). Let the Danes set the example and soon other nations will follow,when they notice that Denmark has become noticeably safer, cleaner and less conflicted due to implementing these measures -- as for the Euro-Med Union, Danes will secede from the EU if that ever happened.

nikolai said...

Ditto what Queen said.

Key factor is tightening border controls first and having a no nonsense attitude to illegals.

Tuluska said...

To The Average Joe
We never asked for cheap muslim labour. In Norway in the 70's a bus full of Pakistanis turned up in Oslo. It was cold and the newpapers reported that they were only wearing "pyjamas". The politicians didn't know what to do with them but finally decided to give them a workpermit so they could earn enough to GO HOME. Except they didn't of course and now 30% of schoolkids in Oslo are muslims. Some new research found that for one of the men who turned up in the 70's his family now counts 80 persons.

Al-lat said...

"if it can be determined that these muslimes are unwilling to assimilate"

It's already evidenced. How much more do you need?

Arabic thinking is COMPLETELY upside down. They will see that you money as a triumph for islam, and that Europeans are paying them the dhimmi tax.

And who are any of lyou to give someone's else's money away - are you Europeans that rich?

How much much conceliation and submission do you want to do? More than what you're already doing?

To give money as bribery, is slave mentality.

Back to the days of the Corsair pirates.

Let me organize some fighting Amazons for you. Better to go down on your feet than on your knees.

Anonymous said...

Paying immigrants to leave has already been tried in France, roughly thirty years ago. It did not work.

Also note that some Romanian illegals are being expelled by certain European countries (Italy? France?) with some pocket money to boot. They keep coming back in order to cash in again.

European countries, with their nanny state and social allowances, are really an attractive proposition.

Anonymous said...

Paying immigrants to leave has already been tried in France, roughly thirty years ago. It did not work.

a) Because the price wasn't high enough and b) because laws and borders weren't enforced afterward.

How expensive would a civil war be?

Al-lat said...

"How expensive would a civil war be?"

Remember that prices to be paid will ALWAYS be more than coin. I mean in lives, either the kid soldiers or civilians. Remember that being a civilian, even from another sect of islam, has NEVER stopped islamics from attacking them.

I wager, the Spanish have never forgotten the Islamic Black troops from Senegal brought in by Franco. When they operated and raped, it was with merciless fervor.

These men were/are tall, muscular creatures, very black.

My mother said that even the U.S. had them in the Canal Zone, for what reason THERE, only the devil knows.

Anonymous said...

Paying immigrants, particularly Muslim immigrants to leave, will not work. Muslims are here to take over Infidel lands for the greater glory of allah, and to rule over Infidel lands. For this, they not only hope (are sure), to gain the world, but paradise as well. Some may accept, but only because it will damage the Kuffar economy, and the money can be used for the good of the Umma and Jihad. The rest will be soldiers in the Great Demographic Jihad. Besides, its fun too.

Zenster said...

While paying disgruntled Muslims (are there any other kind? - And if they exist, are they merely "gruntled"?) to leave might seem cost-effective, without strict border and immigration controls—both of which the EU has neutered—there is little to prevent Mohammed from returning as Mohamet and Muhamed and Mahmoud and so forth until everyone is bled white as a well bleached sheet.

At times like this my cynicism tends to kick in rather heftily and agree with others that any such supposed bribery will only be construed as jizya. Far more difficult to mistake is being marched at bayonet-point onto rust-bucket freighters for prompt return to the respective Islamic utopias that these parasites came from.

Nice? No. Kind? No. Effective? Yes.

Muslims currently seek the most effective means possible to end our way of life. Why must we flinch at assuring that they do not succeed?

Enough of this nonsense. Why cooperate with those who have no intention of cooperating? The West must act from a position of strength or is will be obliged to respond from a position of weakness.

Which shall it be?

laine said...

Did the idiots who claimed Muslim immigration would provide a needed low-paid labor force not notice when it added to the Welfare rolls instead?

Well, bring on the low paid labor as in work. Starting with the Danes, revamp Welfare policy completely. Change welfare to workfare and no office job either. Physical labor should be demanded of the men. It wouldn't be discriminatory as it would be demanded of all the able bodied seeking Welfare and no language barrier. Wives off to help at nursing homes to earn their keep. Pregnant wives at home should be given piecework in a cottage industry. No polygamous families. Kids to state not religious schools.

Many Muslims, especially Arabic are allergic to work and will remove themselves from the vicinity. It's one thing to loll about collecting jizya/welfare from the stupid infidels, between demonstrations but it is quite another to be "humiliated" by having to work for them and wipe their bottoms.

Give everyone 6 months' warning, then no more welfare for sitting around doing nothing but procreating. Meanwhile, absolutely no immigration unless a) you accept your host country's culture will not make special accommodation for your religion whatever it is AND b)you are skilled or have a job waiting for you. You can sign on as a guest worker for one year for the low-paid jobs and if you get a good report card, your contract may be renewed maximum three years. Then you must leave, unless you have married a Danish citizen, no matter how many children you have made. Your Danish work history will count favorably when you apply to immigrate from your home country. Unwillingness to work after arrival and any criminal activity is reason for deportation back to country of origin.

Common sense, and non-discriminatory except to the lazy.

Rier said...

A reasonable enough suggestion in one sense. Europeans have offered ransom to Muslim and other raiders in the past, alongside other more forceful strategies used concurrently. The carrot may not be sufficient by itself (as it wasn't in the 9th century), but combined with sticks such as restrictions on their mosques, schools, preaching, and other types of repression, not excluding internment, it could be an important part of a comprehensive strategy to assimilate those who are willing and able to be, and get rid of the rest.

I'm not without sympathy for those who resent the idea of paying them. No wants to see their national wealth looted and drained to buy off a bunch of criminal riff raff, but there is no good solution to this problem - war will almost certainly be even more expensive, and may be unavoidable in any case (the hope would be that coming to terms with those willing to leave for a price may reduce the level of bloodshed if hostilities do come about).

Of course it would have been best if policymakers, as someone else suggested, had though the matter through better in the first place, but we can't change the past. And history is full of precedents for this kind of protection payment. I'd say this is as good a solution as any other, and it should be considered.

Rier said...

One final note. Maybe somewhat OT, but European countries are going to remain subject to the kind of pressures that have caused all this in the first place if they don't reverse the low fertility of the indigenous populations. The big test for the Social Democrats in Denmark, and anywhere else where they may start to come to their senses, is whether they can recognize this, drop their religious devotion to population control, contraception and abortion, and come to terms with at least some degree of reinstatement of traditional family values. I'm not saying that Europeans should start breeding like rabbits - like certain other people we know - but the pendulum has swung too far to the other side, and needs to come to rest in a stable center.

I may be mistaken but I have the impression that the European left is still stuck in the 60s on this.

Dank said...

Let's never forget who got us into this mess in the first place. Liberals and liberal policies which opened up the doors in the 60's and conitnue to defend these immigrants and deny the vast problems they cause us.

Anonymous said...

Paying immigrants, particularly Muslim immigrants to leave, will not work. Muslims are here to take over Infidel lands for the greater glory of allah, and to rule over Infidel lands. For this, they not only hope (are sure), to gain the world, but paradise as well.

Not true. That may be the motivation for some of them but certainly not for all. Muslims are human just like the rest of us and are susceptible to bribes just like the rest of us. Otherwise their home countries would not be so notorious for their corruption. Look at the Bhuttos of Pakistan -- 1.5 billion dollar fortune, all of it gained in bribes and embezzlement. The trick is to get something for your money -- their passport, and a signature on a contract abjuring all citizenship rights, etc., then strictly enforcing the keeping of them out forever.