Thursday, March 13, 2008

“Has Israel Lost the Will to Live?”

In an unusual move for someone with his demeanor, Shrinkwrapped sent a mass email out to bloggers addressing his concerns about what seems to be a growing malaise in Israel.

I have snipped part of it here, but I urge you go over and read all of his post. Shrinkwrapped is eminently reasonable and if he is saying this, then we all ought to examine it carefully. The example he offers to back up his intuition is very telling.

Has Israel Lost the Will to Live?:

I have written a great deal about the anti-Semitic psychopathology of the Palestinians. I have described their illness as self defeating and self-destructive. I have pointed out that every nation that has attempted to destroy the Jews has failed and been destroyed in turn. I have also written about the dangerous fecklessness of the Israeli government and the Israeli Left, which believes that, against all historical evidence, this time the Palestinians really are committed to Peace. The evidence to the contrary continues to accrete, yet Palestinian genocidal threats, and similar threats from their supporters in Iran, Hezbollah, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, et al, fall on deaf ears. This is all well documented and dispiriting.

Yet recently an additional suspicion has been insinuating itself into my awareness. It is much more troubling and my initial reaction is to dismiss the notion; yet even the most disturbing ideas must be examined and considered if the worst is to be avoided...
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Before receiving his message, I had been thinking along the same lines. Since Gates of Vienna is a blog founded to support the survival of Israel, the way things continue to erode there is, as he says, “dispiriting”.

I told him, in the comment I left there, that I’ve been reading the Israeli news, trying to find a robust response to the Yeshiva murders. The most they can say is they’re going to tear down the killer's house…and meanwhile, the shelling continues.

In the midst of their lethargy, I did find one bright spot yesterday. Here it is:
The ages of these soldiers give me hope that all is not lost, that the young carry our hope of regeneration.

I am afraid to dwell on the unthinkable, in which “Never Again” becomes “We Can’t Do This Anymore”. That’s a suicide pact.

If you have counter-examples to offer, please leave them in his comments.


nikolai said...

No counter-example. The left is multi-culturalist and anti-national. For jewish leftists that makes Israel a psychological contradiction.

I imagine extra psychological pressure comes from the growing anti-Israel sentiment in the western MSM. A pressure also driven by multi-culturalism imo because Israelis are "whiter" than Palestinians and apartheid is no longer there as the bete noir of the multi-cultists.

Mossad would do better to start targeted assassinations of western multi-cultists instead of Hamas types imo.

ole said...

Things in Israel is allways a lot more complicated than outsiders tend to think , and frequently just the opposite of anywhere else.
The Kibuzim must be considered "leftists" in some ways, but they are also (like american midwest farmers) one of the cornerstones of the IDF in general and of infantry officers in particular.
On the other hand you might have ultranationalist/religious rightwingers who would never dream of sending THEIR sons and daughters in harms way.
The real divide in a country at war is not between left and right , but rather between patriots and egoists

Alexis said...

I think it's worse than a suicide pact. The House of Omri destroyed the northern state of Israel by accusing innocent men of blasphemy (which at the time was equivalent of treason and Jew-hatred) while letting a Phoenician princess promote a foreign cult with the intent of replacing the national religion. It wasn't Assyria that caused the northern ten tribes to lose their sense of Jewishness; it was precisely this malaise we're talking about.

It is easy to put the blame onto the multicultural left, and it certainly does deserve much of the blame. Yet, it is essential for the health of any state that there must be a high bar of proof before accusations of treason or Jew hatred are leveled, let alone tried. The judicial murder of Naboth corroded the legitimacy of the House of Omri. When I accuse Adam Gadahn of treason against the United States, it is based upon his unequivocal statements, not based on scent. Scent is never enough to even make an anonymous accusation. Anybody who claims he or she can smell a witch, a Communist, a Nazi, or a Jew hater has the effect of undermining a community's will to live.

Time and time again, the worst persecutions of Jews have come after Jewish civil strife where each faction drags outside princes into their esoteric theological battles with the predictable result of exasperating the princes. One can look at the Platonist-Aristotelian dispute of medieval Spain, the Shabbatean schism of early modernity, or the modern traditionalist/Spinozist cleavage within Judaism. For that matter, it was common for pogroms to be led by Jewish apostates to Christianity who would tell lies designed to incite Christian mobs against the ghetto. In each case, internal Jewish strife would provoke outside attack.

In present time, the State of Israel attracts enemies the way honey attracts flies. This isn't entirely because of who the neighbors are, but because Israeli behavior would be confusing to almost any neighbor. Israelis have no consensus on what the boundaries of Israel ought to be, and instead of making internal compromises of deciding which parts of the West Bank are important and which parts of the West Bank are not important, Israelis tend to scream at the top of their lungs toward one another. Their disputes last for generations. Even if Palestinians were perfect and didn't support the barbarism of Fatah and Hamas, Israel's fractiousness would drive its neighbors to distraction. As it is, Israelis are cursed with neighbors who combine the most ferocious terrorism with their own variety of fractiousness.

The problem is not merely Jewish men who won’t even try to defend their womenfolk; it’s that there is so little sense of community that men won’t try to defend one another. When a fellow Jew is called a traitor, why should he defend his accuser even in the face of the worst pogrom? Yet, false accusation of treason by Jews against one another is an old tradition that bedevils Jews to this very day. Jezebel has done her work well, for her legacy lives on despite what the dogs did to her supposedly divine body.

Dymphna said...

ole said:
On the other hand you might have ultranationalist/religious rightwingers who would never dream of sending THEIR sons and daughters in harms way.

There is a link in my post. Find the underlined "Here it is."

This news article contradicts what you say.

It's bad enough as it is, please don't make it worse.

Bela said...

Let me ruffle some peoples' feathers and let's discuss a few unpleasant subjects that not a hype thing to talk about nowadays.
The Holocaust and the birth of Israel were inseparable and unique Historical event. Those who fought for their country valiantly were overwhelmingly Eastern European survivors of the Death Camps and those Jews knew how death smells like and wanted to put an end to it for good.
While Western Jewish individuals provided invaluable financial assistance yet there were few and in between those who helped manually drain the swamps and fertilize the desert.
And Israel was a respected, shining country among the nations.
But those pioneers have all but died and the new generation reverted to the traditional Ghetto life: make deals - geschefts - and spawning Marxism-Leninism, Anti-Americanism and Anti-Judaism.
Prominent Communist Jews (Chomsky, Judt) are openly advocating the extermination of their own people and everybody call them "intellectuals" and revere every word what they say.
G. Soros financing Anti-American organizations, Code Pink's Jewish Medea Benjamin incite against the US and earlier Jews at the Frankfurt School (Marcuse, Adorno, etc.)created the Political Correctness philosophy in order to destroy the Western Civilization.
Rosa Luxemburg destroyed Germany and created Hitler, the Bolshevik Jews destroyed Russia and created Stalin and now not surprisingly they are on their way to destroy the only country what they supposedly could call home.
Please check out Masada 2000 very informative web site to be horrified about Self-loathing Jews.
Please, it's worth to go here:

xlbrl said...

Israel is finished. It was always clear she would not do to its ememies what its enemies were most certainly prepared to do to it. So its many enemies knew they only needed to keep pulling the trigger in a rigged game of Russian Roulette, because an Arab loss never ended the game.
Arafat saw to it that the Palestinian culture became so foul no peace could be possible, so depraved that they enthusiastically greet news of Iran's nuclear program knowing they too will go up in smoke.
Between barbaric nations and proxy groups, Israel would need to kill many millions in her last defense. They will not do it. They are, in greater number, leftist and far leftist. Does anyone imagine leftists in Europe or the United States would defend their own countries? Israel, remarkably, is in many ways worse.

Dymphna said...


In most of your comments one could replace "Israel" with "America" and it would still be accurate.

Perhaps it was Stalin's dying curse to us as his spirit wended its way to hell.

leadpb said...

In an end game where disagreement over details finally yields to a struggle for survival, those who promote only modern liberal suicide of the culture will be instantly irrelevant. Survival is much deeper than culture no matter where in the world you go and liberals forget that. The absolutist view against war at any cost will disappear from the political landscape or become so marginalized as to not matter. Until then there seems little hope of any dramatic return to traditionalism. But it is essential we keep up work on the foundation all the while.

laine said...

There appears to be such a thing as being "too civilized". When the overlay of empty intellectualizing trumps all common sense and even the survival instinct, a society becomes prey to barbarians, as Rome once fell.

Progressives imply that constant change is good but this is beyond foolish. Watering a plant too little dries it out but over-watering kills it just as quickly. Progressives have no concept of an optimum, pressing instead to the far limits of everything. They take free speech and make it include pornography, charity and make it the permanent hammock of welfare, turn the end of one racism into racism against another through affirmative action, go beyond treating criminals humanely to treating them like victims and finally go beyond everyone's natural dislike of war to unilateral disarmament.

That people with such poor judgment have been able to dominate the media and public education in order to turn out more people of poor judgment is a wicked circle and curse on us all.

Anonymous said...

The Kibuzim must be considered "leftists" in some ways, but they are also (like american midwest farmers) one of the cornerstones of the IDF in general and of infantry officers in particular.
On the other hand you might have ultranationalist/religious rightwingers who would never dream of sending THEIR sons and daughters in harms way.

Ole, thats totally false, you should know its been years since the Kibbutznikim as a whole were a cornerstone of the military(with the expection of the air force where they are still key) 51%, the majority of IDF combat officers are the religious you so disdain. Remember we are only 20% of the population as a whole. Yes, Leftists such as yourself have kept us out of the top ranks, but the claim that we dont serve is just that a claim.

You seem to forget that the Etzel and Lehi who drove the British from our land were led by religious Jews. The Secular wanted Havlagah, and if they had had their way we'd still be under British or Arab rule.

Baron the situation in Israel is complicated, the religious are highly nationalistic and we by far have the most children so we will eventually be in power. Most of the country is traditional, and nationalistic but their is intense and constant propoganda calling for surrender, so they are often confused about what is the correct path. At this point the insane Left controls the levers of power and is ruthless and profoundly undemocratic in the maintenance of their power. Generally our attitude is we want revenge and a strong revenge, but the Shabak, the secret police, are extremely competant making private revenge difficult, and secular Jews are often ignorant of Judaism and unaware of what a proper Jewish response is. We say it is only a matter of time until we come to power then you will see what we will do.

Captain USpace said...

For EVERY missile shot into Israel at least ONE missile should be returned to the area as close as possible to the shooter. Tit for tat. Every single missile should be returned. Period.

Treat them like adults, if they kill, they will be killed. That is the only way they will learn. Screw public opinion, force them to see the truth, or let them be damned.
absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
hope your kids grow up

to strap bombs on babies
to kill other children

absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
form a terrorist country

then wish to be destroyed
by committing acts of war

absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
blame your failings on the Jews

for a few more thousand years
they are Earth's scapegoats

absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
give Israel away

to appease her enemies
dishonor America

ole said...

Doomsdays-profecies are not helpfull. Nor is it a god idee to believe that REVENGE is a clever ,brave and sucsesful strategi.
It might become necesary one day for the IDF to kill a great number of palaestineans including women and children, but only after all alternative strategies have failed . If then,it will have to be done , it will be done by the army as a whole and by the NATION as a whole.
When we are at war , there is no such thing as left and right. If kahane loyalist had ever been a real soldier ,he would have known that

Captain USpace said...

"Doomsdays-profecies are not helpfull."

Firing back equally is no where near a "Doomsday prophecy", it's simply justified self-defense.


Anonymous said...

oleh, this is a public forum I dont feel the need to bring up the history of the behavior of the Left during wartime, please send me an e-mail at and we can continue this discussion privatley, though I will say I wish you were right and in wartime we all stood together.

Oleh, your a Jew, learn Rambam Hilchot Melachim, learn the Tanchuma on Shemot, learn Sefer HaChinuch to learn what is Jewish warfare not the Western comncepts that have poisoned so many Jewish minds.

As for me, admittedly I havent served in the IDF because my call up isnt for another 7 months, not because I choose not to.

nikolai said...

"The real divide in a country at war is not between left and right , but rather between patriots and egoists"

Huge difference between old left and new left imo. The re-alignment hasn't completed yet but it will be, as you say, between patriots and the new left internationalists allied with the globalizers.

Marxists are capitalists now -- but they are still anti-national.