Wednesday, March 12, 2008

Operation Gratitude

One of our readers, Babs, left an important comment today. I looked into the organization she mentions and it seems efficient, dedicated, and focused.

If you remember, on the first of this month I posted on Blackfive’s letters and emails for the troops in Afghanistan, plus some information about sending packages.

The organization Babs mentions is another of the support mechanisms for the troops. Read her comment and then look at the information on Operation Gratitude's website.

First, Babs:

My oldest son is a USNA grad, currently in flight school at NAS Pensacola. I asked him once how he can put up with all this s**t. He told me he swore an oath to protect those to say any stupid thing they want…

If our society as a whole could only be half as civil as the military men and women fighting to protect us, things would be quite a bit different.

Having a son at USNA, I was tasked by the local parents’ club to be the pen pal of Lt. Ron Winchester USMC, USNA class of ‘02. I took the job gladly and every Saturday morning would sit down and write him a letter. Many times I would make up a box of goodies, always on the look out in stores for deals on bulk gum, candy, snack foods, etc. for him to share with his men or hand out to the Iraqi children.

I would need to get this task done by 11:30 in order to get my letter or box up to the post office in time. EVERY Saturday on the way to the post office I would have to drive by the anti-war picketers at our major intersection. This didn’t bother me too much until the day I got the news that Lt. Winchester had his body blown apart by an IED. He was the first USNA grad to die in Iraq. For many months after his death I had terrible feelings of violence when seeing the picketers on a Saturday morning. I actually had thoughts of plowing my car into them…

- - - - - - - - -
They have pulled every stunt in the book; the orange jumpsuit “Abu Gharib/torture” thing being one. (Do they hold potluck dinners and brain storm on this stuff? Anyone know where we can score some orange jumpsuits?) But when they went to the fake flag draped coffin show, a man stopped his car and attacked them with a snow shovel! He was arrested and it made a big splash in the local paper with the anti-wars wondering why anyone would be so violent as their cause is good and true…

About 6 months after Lt. Winchester’s death, my husband and I drove by the intersection and a large poster board was up with the pictures of the fallen from our area under the caption “They Died in Vain.” I wanted my husband to stop the car. I wanted to see if they had the nerve to use Lt. Winchester’s image in their sick game. I wanted to beat someone up. My husband refused to stop the car and told me to turn my head away…

As I am sure you can tell, this situation bothers me to this day and, so many times I have to fight back tears. Because, you see, it could be my own son too. He might fall defending the right of these people to undermine our country and our military.

I went to Lt. Winchester’s wake and funeral. I watched grown men cry. If you want to ponder a flag draped coffin, go to a military funeral. I guarantee you will never be the same.

After the falling of Lt Winchester I decided that sending gum and candy to one man in the war zone wasn’t going to cut it anymore. Since then I have been a proud supporter of Operation Gratitude, Since 2004 our organization has sent over 300,000 packages to men and women serving our country.

So, grab your Starbucks and stand out at the corner in your costumes. I am doing something to make life just a little bit better for the men and women that allow you the right to be a traitor and a fool…

Operation Gratitude, which Babs mentions above has its home page here.

They are focused and organized, not trying to be all things to all the military, whose needs are large and ever growing. Thus they have two times a year in which people send items to be packaged and sent on to the soldiers:


OCTOBER 1-DECEMBER 5 for the Holiday Drive
APRIL 15-May 15 for the Patriotic Drive

As you can see, that leaves somewhat less than two months to get everything to California in time for their sorting and packaging for the Patriotic Drive.

You can send letters all year, and of course, donations are welcome at any time. Any monies collected go into the expense of mailings.

You can write a letter anytime you want, too. They will forward it on:

Operation Gratitude
16444 Refugio Road
Encino, California 91436

Here is the page which will direct you to groups, businesses or individual help (the individual slot is easiest for my purposes).

And here is a wish list of things you can buy and send to Operation Gratitude.

A perusal of the Operation Gratitude website is informative. You can see the many commercial sponsors, pictures of the donations being assembled and then being so happily received on the other end, plus the ideas they have for generating income and a deep sense of presence to the sacrifices the deployed military make everyday.

This group is inventive, organized and focused. After watching the video, here, you can see these are obviously top-down characteristics.

Think about what you have in time or resources to donate to this or similar programs. Just a letter would mean a lot.


babs said...

Thank you so much for publicising our organization. If anyone has names and addresses of men and women serving overseas, please submit them to We will send them a package of cheer from the American citizens that support them.
And BTW, knowing the founder of opgrat personally, I think you would be amazed by the dedication of this org...
God Bless the men and women that stand on the line every day to protect us.

christian soldier said...

Opporation Support Our Troops and Opporation Gratitiude both conceived by far sighted women are doing great work for "our guys".

OSOT is near one of my favorite places -West Point.

OG is less than 5 miles from me. It's fun to go and pack and / or write to those "over there."

Al-lat said...

She has visions of plowing into anti-war picketers?
That woman is mentally unstable.

Since when has it been against the law to be against a war? Is everyone supposed to think the same way? And if people don't want the war, should they be killed? If that were so, then, we'd have been in another civil war already.

So where are we going with this war? What have we accomplished, except borrow trillions from China, thereby, being OWNED by the Chinese now. That's where we are now. Few people want to see this. But's that the truth.

Every store that I go to, is stocked with inferior goods from Mainland China. AND this includes the horrible shoes, hard and ugly. We pay more, and get less. We, "peasants" get shoes and badly made clothing from China, while the Elite get leather Italian shoes and chic fashions from Paree.

This war, hasn't accomplished anything in Iraq or Afghanistan or Pakistan, either. They're still savages, esp. towards each other. Still running amuck. Still resistant to change towards the 21 c. And take a look a what's happening right here, at home.

Above all, the problem is right here at home. Now only do we have illegals causing trouble at the southern borders - of all things - now - we have tent villages of '''squatters' - but we have trouble with legal immigrants - the types that were black shrouds.

Our real problem is that on one hand the gov/military is claiming to be fighting Al-queda in the MIddle East, while letting them in to this country.

It doesn't add up, and we're so confused, se don't know where to turn. It's called COGNATIVE DISSONANCE.

I say, that after 6 yrs of the war, it's time to turn our focus back on this country. Start pouring all our energy back here. For our own salvation. As a labor of love.

I don't know about this blog, but the majority of the people in this country, feel/or are starting to feel, the same way.

Afonso Henriques said...

Al Lat,
Of course nobody should be killed because of that, and it is clear that everyone has the right to protest against a war or to stand against a war.

What is shocking is the lack of respect that those individuals demonstrate. They have not the right to insult people that way, neither have they the right to be such morons. Or at least, this is how I see America as the land of liberty.

Do you have the following concepts in English?

Liberdade (Liberty/Freedom)
Libertinagem (maybe Libertinage(?), the sense of being so free that we can do whatever we want without taking others in consideration.)

Well, maybe it is my language that is too Latin, but one should know that liberdade is not the same as libertinagem.

Al-lat said...

Afonso: Libertinage?

From: Meriem-Webster online dictionary:

Main Entry: lib·er·tin·age
: libertinism

the quality or state of being libertine : the behavior of a libertine

Function: noun Etymology: Middle English libertyn freedman, from Latin libertinus, from libertinus, adjective, of a freedman, from libertus freedman, from liber Date: 1577

usually disparaging : a freethinker especially in religious matters2: a person who is unrestrained by convention or morality; specifically : one leading a dissolute life.


So, the thing is whose convention? Whose sense of morality?

Now read:

U.S. Bill of Rights
Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


This is our GOD-Given Right. Shall you abrogate it?

no2liberals said...

Al Lat,
Having visions of running down those miscreants, and actually doing so, are not the same thing.
Those protesters are mostly shills from international answer, a communist organization that wishes to see this country go under.
Just because a group of ungrateful twits decide to put on their agitprop in the middle of the street, doesn't mean everyone should fawn over them, even if they are within their rights. It's just more childishness that says.."look at me!!...look at me!! I'm getting attention!!"
That Babs showed restraint is a testament to her mental health. That the ingrates chose to dress in orange jumpsuits is a testament to their devotion to the enemies of this country, and disrepect for those who value this country, and actually put their lives on the line to defend all the things that make this country great. Abu GrabAss was an overblown example of poor judgement, not administration policy.

Al-lat said...


But can you understand that this country is already on its knees? Smell the coffee. We're in big What do you call owing TRILLIONS to China? And all production is done in China. I call that being owned. We're ARE in a recession - basic food prices up - gas prices up. And unemployment is up. Corps. and Plants are closing in the U.S. - The dollar is down - China threatens to switch to the Euro.

It hasn't hit us yet. We are on our knees. A possible answer would be to begin again as in Colonial Days. Take back production, i.e. cottage industries, and to start our own currency, such as the Ithaca dollar.

The sooner we facing the truth of what is happening, and start doing this - DO SOMETHING - the sooner we PEOPLE can thumb our noses at the Feds, the Banks and China, and saudi Arabia.

no2liberals said...

Al Lat,
I disagree that we are on our knees, though I will agree that there are a lot of people who would like to see us in that position.
Actually, recent reports show China is facing unemployment rates unimaginable in this country, while our's has gone from a statistically impossible 4.6% to 5.0%, in recent months. I don't find that alarming.
China is actually having to out source much of their manufacturing capacity, as it has gotten too expensive to do there.
Whether we are or are not in a recession, is still open to debate. To me it is another economic downturn, which occur from time to time, and once the correction in the economy is made, we experience economic growth.
As for the dollar being down, it is due to neglect, and I have been encouraged that the current administration has taken steps to strengthen it.
I would love to see this country become a producing nation again, instead of a consuming one, but as long as unions have the grip on manufacturing in this country, it ain't gonna happen.
Starting over, from scratch, is unreasonable and unrealistic. We have a fifteen trillion dollar economy. It cannot be stopped, it cannot be moved rapidly in any direction, but it's unrelenting momentum can be altered by degrees.
This period of time is nothing new, we have had depressions, recessions, inflation, deflation, and stagflation, and we always rebound. The mortgage crisis is nothing new either, and is driving much of the economic problems we are having now. At least we haven't had to revive the Resolution Trust Corporation.
Here's an excellent presentation of how housing prices have changed in this country, over time.
I don't see what all this has to do with protesters and the love for the young men and women who serve us in the armed forces. This thread is about one woman who chose to take action in support of our troops, and I commend her for her proactive efforts.

Afonso Henriques said...

Al Lat, you have a good point there.

I, and I think, most of Europeans, especially conservative Europeans, would take that a country/nation moral is that of the traditional people that inhabit it. And, because Europe consists upon Nation States united by blood, nearly everybody has the same costumes/sense of morality. But then the commies and the post modernists have ruined it all.

What I meant, stands though. In Europe I feel that libertinage is wrong, in America, it should as well.

But I ain't gonna kill a fly for that, got me?

I think I was pretty clear.

Al-lat said...

"I don't see what all this has to do with protesters and the love for the young men and women who serve us in the armed forces. This thread is about one woman who chose to take action in support of our troops, and I commend her for her proactive..."

Everything ties up..everything has to do with it.

I feel that the woman is blindly going with the flow. Her attitude is that if the gov/military has a war, she should go along and allow it to continue.

I feel that we all have a brain to
discern and think for ourselves, the pros and cons, and benefits of the citizenry. As homo sapien sapiens we should be able to be flexible and break off patterns of thinking and agreeing with, if it isn't moral or ethical. The times have come and gone re. the "phrase "my country right or wrong."

I feel that the gov/military is using us, considering themselves our "masters."

I'm bemused when I see the viewpoint of the actual boots on the ground at the warzone and the viewpoints of the civilians here. What a difference!

THe GIs actually at the warfront live - see that the war has NOTHING to do with defending this country, but is for the profiting of the weaponry corps. - the Halliburtons. And that's what they're trying to tell us.

Please don't tell about supporting the military. One thing is the "offiers" and another is the expendible soldiers.

Please don't talk about defending and supporting the soldiers, when medical and hospital care for the returning Vets, is a disgrace here. Not only that, but they're not getting the basics from the military - and the military in fact, hinders civilian help.

And in case you haven't noticed, we, the U.S. stands alone in this war and continuing it.

How much more can we continue alone? Every country coerced in the "Coalition" has either withdrawn or cut the number of troops, as in "Battalions."

It's time to look at the picture again, and see the pros and cons.

And NOT continue to support the "troops." I say, again, the soldiers do NOT want our support, they want us to get them the HELL OUT of there!

It's a hellhole there, and The powers that be, intend to keep them there for years. In constant battle mode.

To keep supporting them like that is utter cruel. The men are suffering mentally and physically. And lossing hope. There is a scarcity of the lower ranks to the Fronts, so many have served 2 or 3 times.

This way has gone on for more than 6 years. May I remind you that to go longer than that effects the psyche terribly, and permanently. The longest a war has gone on is about this time length - the American Civil 5 yrs. WWII 5 yrs. Must we go the length of the Vietnam War? I remember you, that disgracefully, we got our tails kicked out of there. And disgracefully, we left our allies there, to pay the piper.

I love our kid soldiers and DO support them in their yearning to be brought back home.

Enough is enough.

The U.S. stands alone. Who of the Europeans out there -
YO! EUROPEANS! - will come back to our side?

Can we afford to continue?

EUROPEANS, are you with us?!


But in the final instance, I - personally - am seeing the signs that everything - the old Guard, the old way of life is breaking up. Everything! Religion. Politics - Government - across the open up another way of life where lives and the individuals are valued. And handling of everything across the Board, will be handled at Local Levels, for the benefit of the Community.

That is why there is so much fiasco happening in Europe and in the U.S., etc.

Church and State is governments are breaking down,

"You cannot put new wine in old wineskins":

Everything will come back to the hands of We, The People.

This is coming. Some do not see it, but I do. And so many, many others. It is NOT illusion.

Al-lat said...

Correction: "I remember, that disgracefully, we got our tails kicked out of there."

Sodra Djavul said...

The war in Afghanistan was necessary. Necessary to remove a threat that successfully attacked us on 9/11. What we have been engaged in since has been nation-building. The war in Iraq, while I would agree was not particularly necessary in hindsight, was at the time. It was the consensus of the intelligence communities that Saddam Hussein was building WMDs. President Clinton, VP Al Gore, Barbara Boxer, John Kerry, John Edwards, Nancy Pelosi, ALL went on record attesting their belief that Saddam had a WMD program. These are people who had access to National Security intelligence due to their positions. So I think to blame Bush for taking action is dishonest. I supported the move to depose Saddam, and still think the region is better off for it.

However, history has shown that everytime the U.S. gets involved in a military conflict, we overstay the mission and engage in nation-building. Look at post-war Germany and Japan. Unfortunately, most Americans can't seem to grasp that NOT ALL people are the same, due to this multiculturist drivel shoveled down our throats. Because we think everyone is just like us, then we think that the only reason they haven't joined the modern world is because of a small core of people or a single individual impeding it. We have not yet, as a nation, grasped the fact that there are indeed cultural factors that would prevent true Western-style governments from taking hold in the third world.

My problem is not the war. It's the nation-building we always feel responsible to accomplish. We've built our own nation, the German nation, the Japanese nation, and now we're trying to build the Iraqi and Afghanistan nations as well.

However, as long as there are men and women serving in our armed forces, they deserve unquestioned support. I do take issue with you on that. They did not make foreign policy. You and I, through our voting patterns, did.

- Sodra

babs said...

"THe GIs actually at the warfront live - see that the war has NOTHING to do with defending this country, but is for the profiting of the weaponry corps. - the Halliburtons. And that's what they're trying to tell us."

And, where do you get that rather sweeping statement from? Some reporter from the TNR (Mr. Beauchamp comes to mind...) magazine because, based on what I know, the vast majority of military personnel that have been in Iraq or are currently there whole heartedly support this action. Is there somewhere that you are able to cherry pick comments from former or active serving U.S. military? I am in a military family. I speak to members of the military all the time. They might not like going to Iraq to serve but I have NEVER heard, of the hundreds of voices I have the opportunity to listen to that they think they are cannon fodder for the military-industrial complex. So, link me baby to all those that have been in Iraq that think this way. I would be surprised if you could come up with 5 credible voices...

Heh, one of the commenter’s above called me “mentally unstable” for thinking of plowing my car into the anti-wars…

I would actually agree with that!

You bet. I was “mentally unstable” because I had been through a terrible trauma.

The last thing I needed to see was “fake” coffins (which very well might have been the craft project at their monthly pot luck) or, Lt. Winchester’s image whored out by the anti-wars (this was probably a Tuesday morning workshop assembling the giant poster). Hey, at least I didn’t get out of my car and attack them with a snow shovel! The orange jumpsuit with dark panyhose over their heads think bordered on laughable. To see people standing on boxes at the intersection of our bucolic community was so pathetic that it was laughable!

I was being very, very honest and actually posted that essay in the comments section to a previous post. The fact that the owners of GOV decided to make it a front page post and go through the trouble of investigating was beyond my control. I actually was not contacted before they decided to go front page with it. I am happy they did, even though it set me up for derision.

Snow shovels of the world, unite!

babs said...

Just to lighten the load a bit... Prior to becoming involved in, I still had a marine that I was corresponding with. He served on "the big stick" and was in charge of maintenence of the rescue helecopters that are sent aloft during take off and landing of the jets.
I was up at my local CVS buying stuff to make up an Easter package when the cashier told me that I had bought enough Hallmark stuff to get a free stuffed bunny. I told the cashier that I was actually buying these things to send to a Marine. With tears in her eyes, she walked me over to these fuzzy stuffed bunnies.
I included the bunny in my package to the Marine with a note:
Please don't throw the bunny overboard!

Al-lat said...

Babs: Calm down and have a lemonade.

I also come from a military family. And thre are many ANTI-WAR VETERAN sites on the "Net, and more coming on daily. In addition, there are VIETNAM VET sites that are AGAINST the way. I do feel since you disagree with me, that it's up to you to find them.

We ALL have had traumas. Our kid soldiers have and are having traumas daily. And that's why they shouldn't be there, but here.

It isn't normal thinking to drive by protesters and have your kind of visions. But don't just talk about it on this blog, you should speak to someone you trust outside, because someday, you may find yourself actually doing it, with all the rage you have inside.

Either that, or take up karake - and punch the hell out of a dummy in the gym.

BTW, the rage you have should be directed at the Admin, NOT the protesters. They live here, same as us. Unless you feel they should be in a Gulag, for disagreeing with you.

You say you've been with the military,and the men are gung-ho for the war, but certainly, they're NOT going to protest in front of their commanders or fellows. And unless they know you for a long time, they're certainly not going to tell you their reservations.

But tell me, what has revenge got us, so far, in the Middle East?

It's got us nowhere.

However, my main point is that it's right here, that we need to have the soldiers. While we've been merrily shipping out the "boots," National Guard, and Reserves, we've left ourselves unprotected from any invasion, who knows from where - but that's why we have them.

We sure could have used them in California and Florida for the terrible fires - and we could have used them, for Katrina.

babs said...

"It isn't normal thinking to drive by protesters and have your kind of visions"

Al-Lat, says who... You???
You are so full of crap I have a hard time replying. I have had people tell me thay want to put a bullet in my head because of my beliefs... (Repub nat'l convention, 04")Oh yeah, you are soooo reasonable in your reply; Katrina, the fires, yeah... If we only weren't in a war against the Islamofacists that want to take over our culture... Yeah, I am absolutely SURE... that Katrina and the CA fires would have been SO MUCH BETTER MANAGED.

I am so sorry that I wrote an honest essay and that you have no capacity to understand what I was saying. Have you had several loved family members die yet? You might find their deaths rather illuminating.

Take a walk outside yourself pal

babs said...

"kid soldiers"

Your calling the men and women that fight for this nation "Kid Soldiers" is so telling...

They are not "kids." They are men and women that are deeply dedicated to this country and your demeaning them as "kids" says more about you than it does about them.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

no2liberals said...

I find you far too pessimistic.
In order to counter your misinformation and misrepresentations of what is going on in Iraq, it would be too time consuming.
In short, to just bring our troops home before the Iraqi government is fully capable would destroy the hard work that has been put in. That in turn, would completely dishonor the men and women in our armed forces who have given their all, and would dishonor our nation, just as the congressional mandated withdrawal from Viet Nam. Viet Nam was a victory for the fifth column in this country, as the VC and NVA didn't defeat us, and couldn't have.
The actions this administration has taken, concerning the GWOT, I commend and fully support. That there have been mistakes, and reevaluations, isn't unusual, it's war after all. George Washington was nearly replaced as the commander, before he got things figured out, and Lincoln had to replace McClellan.
I have Iraqi friends, and am losing them on a monthly basis, as they are all going back home. Look in their eyes and ask them how they feel, and you will see gratitude.
Being a veteran, I know how screwed up the VA can be, everyone in the military knows. For me, it's the best example for illustrating that government run health care is the worst possible approach.
As for the NG and reserves, there isn't any credible information that this country or any individual state has suffered because of their deployments. NG and reserves aren't certified fire jumpers or fighters, and Katrina is more an example of what happens when the Dhimmicrats run a large cities government for decades, and use institutionalized poverty to keep them in power.
As for the protesters, they have their rights, as do we all. Which gives me the right to say they are on the side of our enemies, and don't love or support this country in it's battle with the irreconcilable wing of islam.
You propose that we should just quit in Iraq, and bring our troops home, but you obviously are reacting emotionally, and not rationally. The supporters of the global hirabah would be emboldened, we would never be safe again, nor would our allies ever trust us again.

no2liberals said...

Thanks for your heart felt email that became this thread.
At least there is one commenter who understands impulse control.
I see people behaving in ways that I find offensive, and have my own visions, but have yet to act on them.
I don't believe anyone that says they never have fantasies or visions of doing harm to those they resent.
Keep up the good work you and your colleagues are doing, having served overseas, I know how much any package received is appreciated.
I pray your son will stay safe.
God Bless.

Sodra Djavul said...

You're claiming that Babs is somehow mentally unstable for having automatic revulsion to these brave anti-war activists who make bombing and death threats against American civilian women?

Stay classy, man.

And stop calling them "kid soldiers." Our society has determined them to be capable of adult decisions, whether they be related to the age/lifestyle of prospective sexual partners, whether to engage in deadly unhealthy habits such as smoking, and to determine the future of our entire nation (and most likely, the entire planet) at the ballot box. You are calling them "kid soldiers" only because it fits your Leftist agenda. I'd take the maturity of one of these "kid soldiers" over yours any day of the week.

Finally, how exactly do you propose the armed services would have been able to lessen the suffering during Hurricane Katrina? Every single resident who died during Katrina was warned to evacuate. Hell, one of my good friends from college evacuated in 2004, the year before, when New Orleans had a close call with a category 4 hurricane. At that time there were experts all over local and regional media warning of the need for THOUSANDS of body bags in the event of a direct hit. If you wish to engage in the blame game surrounding hurricane Katrina, how about this: I think the people who died themselves were to blame for their own stupidity.

They awarded themselves a gold-plated Darwin Award.

I grew up in Florida, survived storms even more powerful than Katrina my entire life. Those people were simply stupid. And so are you if you can honestly blame George W. Bush or the Iraq War for the actions of idiotic New Orleans residents.

- Sodra

Afonso Henriques said...

Al Lat,

you are scarrying "progressive"!

"The U.S. stands alone. Who of the Europeans out there -
YO! EUROPEANS! - will come back to our side?
EUROPEANS, are you with us?!"

How dare you!
You should have been old enough back in 2003 to have realised that there was not one only European Nation that wanted to bother Sadam.
It was the U.S of A. and only the U.S. of A. that forced the war and led other allies to the war (the U.K; Italy; Spain; Portugal; Denmark; Poland and some others, and as so, only the American people can be blamed.

Actually... the war has ofcially ended a long time ago, don't you recall? Is Sadam or its government in power?

How do you have any moral whatsoever to talk to "Europeans" that way? Shame on you!

"EUROPEANS, are you with us?!"

Europeans are nutts. Have you ever heard of Kosovo?

"hat we have been engaged in since has been nation-building."

It's funny to see how some "conservative" americans and so many american neocons believe in this. How is Afghanistan a Nation? Do you want to built Nations? Help Serbia!

"If you wish to engage in the blame game surrounding hurricane Katrina, how about this: I think the people who died themselves were to blame for their own stupidity.
They awarded themselves a gold-plated Darwin Award."

if they weren't stupid, they were way too naive.

no2liberals said...

Just a little note for those who doubted the links between terrorist and Saddam, there is a new report out.
"A former Bush administration official who was a member of the counter-terrorism evaluation group that analyzed terror networks and links between terrorists and states, David Wurmser, said he felt the report began to vindicate his point of view.

"This is the beginning of the process of exposing Saddam's involvement in Islamic terror. But it is only the beginning. Time and declassification I'm sure will reveal yet more," he said. "Even so, this report is damning to those who doubted Saddam Hussein's involvement with Jihadist terrorist groups. It devastates one of the central myths plaguing our government prior to 9-11, that a Jihadist group would not cooperate with a secular regime and vice versa."

Al-lat said...

"..stop calling them "kid soldiers" . I call them kid soldiers - because they ARE our little children - our next generation being set out in a false war. Not only that but in continuing, they're being poisoned by the depleted uranium weapons they're using.

"only because it fits your Leftist agenda." Everybody that doesn't agree with the pro-war agenda, is a Leftist, a Pinko or a Commie, right? We just HAVE to be gung-ho with the war, right?

I'll have you know, that it is the families of the 9/11 "Dead" that have been AGAINST THIS WAR in the first place, and all along!
But at the start of the Iraq War, aggressive people, wrested the control of the U.S.foreign policy and went on to do havoc in Afghanistan and Iraq. In fact, neither country had anything to do with 9/11. They were Arabs on the fatal plane remember? Yet, we're still doing business with saudi Arabia.

Instead of Negotiation and forbearance, the War Hawks did what they do best. They threatened, and insulted those calling of us, AGAINST going in with our feet.. What the U.S. military did is step on several nest of hornets, and now we're surrounded with them and being stung to death - we're blinded with the wave of them, batting our hands, unable to see our way out, not knowing what to do.

Right now in Iraq, we're going around in a loop - doing the same things over and over - with not enough men. In fact, we're surrounded by real enemies - that intend to rid their country of invaders. We could have gone in as friends, it is true that at the time, we were heroes to them. But we took the wrong road. Now every single civilian there, is aainst us. And we have no "Coalition." Can't you see the truth? Today, the only part that our military controls is the Green Zone. We don't even control the road to and from all the time. The only time we do, is a few times a week, when our kid soldiers, risk their lives to hold control for 45 minutes.
Why can't we withdraw from this horrible situation? Why must we continue on? For what? Why must our kid soldiers suffer? They 're not getting basic supplies, the water given them is contaminated. They get MRE's now 2x a day. They have no adequate body armor or vehicle armor. OR decent boots.
And as for Afghanistan. Now the U.S. is asking Russia for help. That's how bad things are. Russia may or may not help us. In fact, Russia is an unknown. And they may NOT be willing to help us, seeing what happened to them also. Should we continue? One thing though, the basic character of the Russian military hasn't changed. Putin has started a youth movement called Nashis. I don't trust them.

Not only that, but Putin has allied himself with Iran. And China as well. The playing field has changed.

So, in fact, we've lost control of the situation.

We don't need a war with Russia and China, as well as the Middle East. It's time to stop "the happy."

As I said before, the War Hawks got us into this mess, and now, it's over for them. They will NO longer be handling the reins. Threats -death threats, insults, fist-shakings, name callings will NOT work anymore. It's time to pull back, take a deep breath, and start talking. It's time for Negotiations.

"I'd take the maturity of one of these "kid soldiers" over yours any day of the week.'" - Yes, that's fine with me. A Great Teacher once said, "Unless you become as little children..." Thank you very much.

"At that time there were experts all over local and regional media warning of the need for THOUSANDS of body bags in the event of a direct hit. If you wish to engage in the blame game surrounding hurricane Katrina, how about this: I think the people who died themselves were to blame for their own stupidity."

SO! Then, the people caught in Hurricane Andrew, were to blame also, for their own stupidity? Do you remember? The same thing happened in Florida then. Should we have no compassion for our own citizens, instead resorting to name calling.

But the truth is more horrible. Why are you so aggressive when I'm simply stating that "We could have used the help of the military?" I'm NOT blaming. It's true we should have been able to use our military, in fact, the LA State Guard, before and after.

I remember what happened very well. At the time, the people with cars got out. They were white people. However, they were so many, they were caught on the roads. So cars did no good.
Those who were left were the Black Some few were white people who were foolish, but the majority were Blacks who had no cars, and were dependent on buses. There weren't enough buses to take them out. The Blacks did NOT stay, they were prepared to leave, and I saw in the film reports, a great many in the Bus Depots waiting for buses. The Bus Companies refused to continue working in New Orleans and withdrew. I feel the Governor should have taken control of the Bus Lines in this emergency - that's what governors are there for.This included the Yellow School buses. Instead, after the tragedy, we all saw films of the those same buses, parked so nice and neatly, in a lot.

HOWEVER, I am blaming FEMA. Completely. Before and after. I'm also blaming the Police Departments surrounding New Orleans. Both Agents stopped help coming in. Where was FEMA?

But, I remember that a flotilla of more than 100 air-boats from FLorida cut across the Gulf to take basic supplies to the survivors. These were private individuals that spent their own money - IN COMPASSION - for their fellow citizens - bringing in water, food and medical supplies. When they reached the port of entry, they were turned back at gun-point by the Black Water Guards, who had taken over the city.

During the week or so, that followed, the police in the townships that surrounded the city - in fact, there were only 2 roads out, the rest were briken elevated roads, these police - at gunpoint - refused to allow any of the survivors to leave. Denied both white and black people exit from the city. And they waited, and waited and waited for help. From FEMA. The rest is history.
I do blame FEMA AND Bush.

"these brave anti-war activists who make bombing and death threats against American civilian women? " Now you're cherry-picking. I'm very surprised - they may have been one incident, but I've never heard of it, or even that it is the prevalent case. What was the background of the incident? If it was the Protesters, then, yes, they were wrong.

Al-lat said...

Afonso: I dare! I was being sarcastic. But whatever you think I said, I do Dare.

And the many European cultures and customes are vastly different from each other - NOT similar.

And to the others on this blog, I DARE question our government. I will never EVER accept Government Policies, unquestioningly.


I get my information from a variety of sources, General News Media as well as Alternate. Because the newspapers in the U.S. are vetted and censored.

I actually think that it's time for us, to bring back the Troops to defend our Borders.

And I think it's time to put away our differences, whatever culture, politics, language and culture and stand together, otherwise, we've have no future.

The people here, only want to hear one thing, that we're winning the war- and that the economy is grand! When both are a lie.

To say that "We have a fifteen trillion dollar economy," is wrong, because at the same time, we owe China trillions.

But I suppose, like John the Baptist, "I'm a voice crying in the wilderness..."

no2liberals said...

Basically, everything you said about Iraq is BS. There's no point in fisking it.
With the exception of your comment of the surrounding communities not allowing NOLA residents into their communities, all that you said about Katrina, before and after, is BS.
Your notion of bringing our troops home, and creating Bunker America is also BS.
We do have a fifteen trillion dollar economy, it doesn't matter that we have debts, or trade imbalances. There are always opportunities and threats, and with our economy, we have always been able to bounce back. Perhaps you have forgotten how devastated our economy was after 9-11, but I, and others haven't, nor do I ignore the importance of preventing such attacks again, and that's by taking the fight to those who have done so, and would do so again. Here are a few truisms, the best defense is a good offense...if you aren't attacking, you are being attacked.
Russia and China are working with and making money off of Iran, is not news. Obviously you haven't heard of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization.
You are an alarmist, a shrieker, and I can't take you seriously.

Ann said...

I read through all the comments and the mentally unstable one who needs to calm down and drink a lemonade here isn't Babs. Not even close.

I thank God we live in a country where free speech -- including loony protesters' free speech -- is allowed. Those same protesters would not survive long in many other places in the world. God bless the men and women who have volunteered to serve in our military and who have sacrificed much to protect the rights of even loony, disrespectful and hateful protesters.

I am a huge OpGrat fan and supporter. Thank you for publicizing this great organization here at GOV. Thank you for sharing Babs' comments -- and Babs, if you read this -- I hope to meet you at the armory someday soon!

Afonso Henriques said...

"I dare!
whatever you think I said, I do Dare.
And to the others on this blog, I DARE...
I get my information from a variety of sources..."

Ok, ok, I got it! You are a brave man who dare!
But, where it will lead you? Are you a rebel without a cause? I just thought you were wrong criticising your European aliies as an American. You know, that destintion between freedom/liberty and libertinage...

"To say that "We have a fifteen trillion dollar economy," is wrong, because at the same time, we owe China trillions."

Well, America may have to face a big crisis in the near future but it will not suffer to bad. It has indeed the biggest economy in the world and the other countries will be more damaged by an American crisis than America itself. The world is more dependent on your Economy than the opposite, otherwise you were all very poor by now.

And man, don't worry about China... You do owe them some moneym but what will they gonna do? Invade you!! lol :)

China will be one of the countries that will not benifit at all with an American crisis, it is dependent on the American success. If America gets poorer, the investiments the Chinese have done in the American treasury and in American Dollars will become useless and pointless. You are privileged as Americans. You do not have to be afraid.

"And the many European cultures and customes are vastly different from each other - NOT similar."

???????????? And so... What does it has to do with anything?????

Well, I am an European, living in the West of the small Iberian Peninsula, in Portugal. If I were to live in the eastern part of the Peninsula in, say Catalonia, I would not feel at home in any way. Despite that, Sweden, Finland or Russia would be like home to me if I had to go 400 Km south, to Morocco... It's all relative... But yes, Europe is not a Nation, it is a Civilisation though.
We are very, very different. But we also have the same base, which is a lot.

"Your notion of bringing our troops home, and creating Bunker America is also BS."

Despite I do not agree with nothing Al Lat said about the war with Iraq, I have to recognise that Al Lat is right in two things:

a) that the so called "Bunker America" is right. You would be better to take care of your country instead of trading democracy for oil and playing the cop of the world. Especially, when you do not have what is need to answer properly to the North Korean challenge.

b)The war in Iraq was, indeed, not necessary. But now that you have make the BS, you have the moral duty to leava a stable Iraq, or to divide it, but to left behind a peacfull land. I would not blame you if you'd retire, though. People would blame America (and rightly) for the next BS that may eventually happen in Iraq.

no2liberals said...

alfonso henriques
The maginot line failed once, and would be a fool's errand to try it again, especially with the Marxist in our midst.
I have never viewed the U.S. as acting as the cop of the world. To ignore the real reasons behind the invasion of Iraq, doesn't serve this argument well. It was Saddam who agreed to the truce and it's conditions, to end Desert Storm. He failed to live up to the agreement, which made it null and void, as he violated the truce and a subsequent seventeen unanimous UN resolutions. The UN was exposed as the feckless, corrupt debating society it was and is. At some point, action has to be taken, and sad as it is, the UN is the model most/many look too for resolving international crises. That the loudest voices in Europe, France and Germany, were opposed to the re-invasion was more a reflection of their interests, as they were making money hand over fist off of Saddam, in violation of UN sanctions, so to me, they had no voice, if they chose to sit this one out. I'm proud to say that we finally had a President, after eight years of the former President, the Horny Hick, that would not stand idly by and allow the repeated attacks against our nation, and took the fight to the enemy. I know one of the favorite canards is that Saddam had nothing to do with terrorist, but the evidence doesn't support that lie.
I agree we have a duty to leave a stable Iraq, and am encouraged by the gains that have been made. In the five years since the re-invasion by the Multi-National Forces, they have created a government, had many free elections, and written a constitution. In this age of immediate gratification, I can understand how some are frustrated by this taking years, and not thirty seconds at the drive-thru window, but this is the real world. The Iraqi's are asking us to maintain permanent bases there, and I support that idea. In Rumsfeld's last year in office, when he announced that all the permanent bases in Germany would be closed, many German officials howled in protest, after howling about the re-invasion of Iraq. Why? Because of the same reason, personal gain, and self-interest. You state we are trading democracy for oil, and that's true, we do it for all democratic countries that must have oil. It's a shared interest we have in the global economy, and if the U.S. and it's allies don't defend and protect our mutual interests, then they will be left to grovel at the feet of the global hirabah.
One last point, that apparently no one is even considering, is the influence a stable Republic of Iraq can and is having on the region. The Mad Mullahs are in control through fear and intimidation, as the majority of the populace doesn't support them. This past year, 90% of all tourist dollars came from Iran, from all of the pilgrimages to Holy sites. As they return to Iran, after a peaceful visit to Iraq, they are telling tales of the rights the Iraqi citizens now have. To me that is a benefit, and an opportunity, that is to be encouraged.
Quitting and walking away is completely unacceptable.

For those who want to blame President Bush for...well...everything, here is the Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq. Please read it.

Afonso Henriques said...


My nick is Afonso, not Alfonso.

I respect your opinion. I agree with some 50% of it. I don't think we shall continue this discussion. Regards. We will meet again here on GoV.

no2liberals said...

afonso henriques,
My apology for misspelling your name.
I respect your's as well.
No probs here.
Later, dude.