Sunday, January 13, 2008

Who is an Ally Against the Jihad?

Correction from AMDG :

The Spanish Euro-MP who was busy trying to block the camera covering the protest in the European Parliament was not from the Partido Popular, but from Union del Pueblo Navarro. This is more than an ally, it is a kind of branch of the party in Navarra, but a branch that it is formally a different party. UPN participates in Spanish general elections as the PP in Navarra and the PP does not participate in regional elections in Navarra.

AMDG, who blogs at La Yijad en Eurabia, has written a summary of Spanish politics in which he outlines the reasons why the PP (People’s Party) is no friend of the Counterjihad.

In his cover note he says:

I’m sending you the basics about Spanish politics, before publishing it on my blog. Please edit it (for the language) if you deem it necessary.

I have to say that I have voted for the PP until now, but I will not do so anymore.

The Spanish Euro-MP who was busy trying to block the camera covering the protest in the European Parliament was from Partido Popular.

To help readers make their way through the alphabet soup of Spanish political parties, here’s a handy reference table for the different acronyms mentioned by AMDG:

BNG Galician Nationalist Bloc Bloque Nacionalista Gallego, in Galician Bloque Nacionalista Galego
CIU Convergence and Union Convergència i Unió, the Catalan nationalist party
IU United Left Izquierda Unida, the former communists
PNV Basque Nationalist Party Partido Nacionalista Vasco, in Basque Eusko Alderdi Jeltzalea, abbreviated EAJ
PP People’s Party Partido Popular, the largest (supposedly) conservative party in Spain
PSOE Spanish Socialist Workers’ Party Partido Socialista Obrero Español

And now for AMDG’s summary:

Why the PP is not an ally in the fight against the Islamization of Europe
(Porqué el PP no es un aliado en la lucha contra la silamización de Europa)

I would like to present a summary on the current situation of the Islamization of Spain. I will start with a description of Spanish politics. In particular I would like to show why the PP is not an ally against the jihad. The reason why I want to start with this is that some of you may still think it is.

The first thing to know about Spanish politics: voters do not change their party easily. People vote for PSOE or PP, and will not change their vote, but they will not vote at all if they feel uncomfortable with their party. This has been shown in this study.

That is why in the elections in the year 2000 Aznar could reach a majority. In normal circumstances, PSOE or PP will be forced to ally with the nationalists (gradual secessionists). Spanish voters lean to the left, but the fact that the left is split between PSOE and extreme left (IU, former communists) makes it also difficult for it to have a clear majority. In 2000, when they announced that they would join in coalition, PSOE voters stayed at home and Aznar had his majority.

The second key aspect: in Catalonia and Basque Country, the right has their own “national” parties (CiU and PNV, respectively); the PP is their minoritarian. Galicia has also a “nationalist” party (BNG), but it is a left party in that case.

As a proud and traditional Spaniard, for me the secession of Catalonia and the Basque Country would be very sad, but I am changing my opinion on that. Catalonia has been playing mad with immigration: they have fostered immigration from Morocco and Pakistan against that from South America, because the latter speak Spanish, which they try to eradicate (unsuccessfully). Basque nationalism is rather racial (and racist). See more on the results of the General Elections 2004, and 2000.

You may wonder what the views of the PP on immigration and Islamization are. I see that sometimes it has been mentioned as a possible ally. No. The PP is a pro-immigration party, even if its voters are not.

The PP has not stated its position on Islamization, but the party would be afraid of being called Islamophobes. In any case: if you are pro-immigration and say nothing about Islamization, then you are passively letting it happen.

Some details:
- - - - - - - - -
Immigrants, the new neighbors. This is one of the official debates in the party conference in 2006. There is no mention of a clear restrictive policy but just a question: Is it possible to continue accepting new immigrants without reforms? No mention of a proposal to limit immigration, just a question.

Proposal to ban “fascist” parties and demos against immigration. The PP presented in Parliament a proposal to make “xenophobic” parties illegal. Curiously enough, the left rejected it, letting them know they should present specific cases. PP was outperforming them.

Blas Infante, Pater Patriae in Andalucía. This curious freak converted to Islam. Still, the Popular Party supported considering him the Pater Patriae of modern Andalucía, the new al-Andalus.

Madrid: Special cemetery for Muslims. The major party (PP) took the initiative to grant 10,000 square meters for the new cemetery to Muslims. They will manage it and say who and how people will be buried there. In the early 20th century, laicists fought against the fact that Spanish cemeteries were confessional (Catholic), when atheists would be buried in special small third-class cemeteries. They wanted civil cemeteries for all. Now they are fighting for the privileges of Muslims.

Madrid: €4,417 million for integration of immigrants. I cannot believe it; this is several thousand euros per immigrant in Madrid… I understand that it would be a several-year plan; still it is outrageous. They come to Spain to improve their economic situation; if they do not manage, the best thing for all is that they return, not to fund their stay.

In summary, the PP is not an ally.


Afonso Henriques said...

"As a proud and traditional Spaniard, for me the secession of Catalonia and the Basque Country would be very sad, but I am changing my opinion on that."

Spaniard???? What is that?
You mean Castillan, right?
And why is Catalonia so heavily targeted by immigration?
Maybe it is because of the "proud and traditionalist Spaniards" from Castilla try to inundate Barcelona with aliens and others non Catalans in order to weaken the Catalan right.

Spain derivates from Hispania.
It was the name of all the Iberian Peninsula. Spain is an empiere with various Nations. Only Portugal escaped but though, Galiza (Galicia) became "Spanish" despite being a lot Portuguese. Its official language is Portuguese written the Spaniard way. It is sad. And it is coward to do what you Castillans have done to Catalonia.

Despite all this contents, I would be glad to have a party like PP in Portugal.
Here, we are so leftie that we have two PSOEs. The Socialists and the Social Democrats who are said to be the right but who are far to th left of PP. PP has the same problem as the tories in Britain, they are afraid to show they are really a right wing party and as so they go leftie some times. Here in Portugal, it is so bad that the right wing party is in fact and ideology a left wing party. They don't have to pretend sometimes.
Just compare Durão Barroso to Aznar.

Anywayy, how dare you to call the basque right wing racist?

The PNV is the most pro Europe (I am not refering to the Union) anti-Immigration party of Spain!
It has nothing to do with racism!
What you far is Spain falling apart

AMDG said...


I know that many Portuguese would like to be politically united with Spain; of course it does not seem to be your case. On the contrary, I would say that you belong to the group who strongly resents that fact that a group of Portuguese would like to be politically united to Spain :)

I know also about Oliveira and other cases that account for that typical neighbours’ antipathy. But, I am sure you agree, this is NOT the point to be discussed at GoV. On my side, I am not going to raise here the issues of the Cuba war, nor the Philippines. It is neither the time, nor the place.

I invite you to comment on my blog; in particular, I would be happy to have more details on what “Castillans have done to Catalonia”. By the way, I am not “Castilian”.

Now; my knowledge of Portuguese politics is close to null; therefore I cannot comment on your whish to have a PP in PT. I was surprised nevertheless to learn that Mr. Barroso is a former Trostkyst (or another communist denomination).

The purpose of my post was, precisely, to let antiyijadists know that the Popular Party is NOT an ally, for the reasons mentioned. I think that the high profile Atlanticism of Aznar is misleading many. But the current candidate, Rajoy, is a low profile party bureaucrat, and the successors are really “right wing liberals”. Just read the links.

And please focus the discussion on this issue?

Fenec said...

His name is AFONSO and not ALfonso...

Could you at LEAST focuse that?

And focuse on this also, no portuguese gives a damm about being politically united to Spain, they just envy Spain's higher wages, and since the sense of independent nation is being washed away in Europe, there's a substancial percentage of portuguese who would gladilly give their independence away and become second class citizens in the Spanish Federation, for a raise in pay.

. said...

Leaving aside the inter-Iberian peninsula fratricide displayed above, I would suggest that the answer to building an immigration-skeptical party in Spain is to work within the Partido Popular and influence its leadership to take a stance against further immigration from outside of the EU. They are much more likely to take this position than the PSOE. Trying to build up a large third party in a political situation such as Spain's is almost as stupid as supporting the BNP instead of working with the Tories in Great Britain.

Afonso Henriques said...


you are right, I resent that such people exist in my country. They are non the less an insignificant minority, less than 5% of the Portuguese and the majority of the non Portuguese here (1 million or so)

The case in question is Olivença (Olivenza in Castillan).

"But, I am sure you agree, this is NOT the point to be discussed at GoV."
Of course I totally agre with you!
I just said what I said in order for you to ralise
1) that the PP is not that bad, it just wants to have more voters (if it gets so leftiee that conservatives turn away, it will turn right with no complexes - you know why they are turning towards the left, don't you? Well, it is because some conservatives did not aproove what Aznar did concerning the 2003 Madrid bombing. They are now turned to the left in order to be more "abrangente")
2) That here in Portugal we are really, but really worse than you in Spain. Since the early nineties the more far right politician who went to power is José Manuel Durão Barroso, a former trotskyst in his twenties, the one who abbandoned their post of PM in order to be the unlected president of the European Comission
3) To show that empires are no good. Nations are better.
Contrast Spain - Catalonia for exemple.
I blive that we have a lot in common, I belive in a strong Hispania, but I do not belive in a Spain. Did you get it?
I would rather be Spanish than be governed by some hipothetical Obama in the future though. But first is my Nation, than Europe.

Thank you Fenec by alluding to my name as Afonso instead of alfonso but I think he knew I was Afonso and wrote alfonso in a provocative way. You give a good description of how the Portuguese feel about being Spanish. Only our communist laureate, Saramago thinks that way...

I was forgetting! I found imperialistic to label the PNV as racist.

You say we shouldn't loose time with fraticidal speeches but I was trying to be constructive, trying to point out what is not right now so that we can work better together in that common goal(s) of ours in the future.

But... how unproductive is it to label a National party as the PNV which has, since democracy have emerged in Spain, fought ETA and other lefties, won every single election in the Basque Country, racist?
The party does not want other Spaniards in the Basque Country let alone immigrants or muslims!

Maybe you are not from the North of the Peninsula, as I am not, and confuse with racism when Northern Iberians look down to us (in the South and Centre) for being tainted.
It is normal, it is not racist, it is just pride for having been the ones who "were never conquered", who "started the Reconquista" and who have really been the elite here since 711.

That's why I labeled you a "Castillan" it had few to due with Castilla in geography. Maybe I will call you a "Felipe", a "Franquista".

I stand strongly for the independence of the Basque Country (with Navarra if possible), the implementation of a Catalan State (With Aragon, Baleares and Valencia) and for the incorporation of Galiza, Olivença and part of Asturias in Portugal, though I will not fight for it.

Maybe, for Galiza if it gets too evident that Galicians are being too misstreated and their rights are being violated (remember Prestige?) or Olivença, in 2015
makes two hundred years of your illegal de facto ocupation of that territory. Some action will really pop in there. If you want, take it as a threat.

But I think it (fights) is extreemely unlikely. I bet I will fight along side you over Perejil, Ceuta or Mlilla first.

I would gladly take a conversation with you in your own blog but it seems a litle out dated, isn't it?

Saudações Ibéricas

AMDG said...

Fenec, I did not see the l in Afonso, I am sorry.

The Poster Formerly Known as Gordon, I agree, but somehow the PP has to feel the pressure from its right. The problem is that the PP is obsessed with the “center”. A third party would be very useful, even with only a handful of seats in parliament, even competing only in local elections.

Afonso, I insist I read Alfonso. You still dedicate 80% of your reply to non-Yihad issues. In any case:

1) If you read the article mentioned in the post you will see that your analysis is not correct; the so-called “center” has never been decisive in Spain. The PP did not loose votes in 2004, but the PSOE got much more than in 2000.

2) I did not know, but I feel that Portuguese people is less politically correct, even if they have “better manners” than Spaniards (they are more ceremonious).

3) This sentence is too generic to be meaningful; it is also questionable. If you read Spanish I can send you many links. We Europeans are the result of the Greek and the Roman empires. You and I are writing in an imperial language: only imperial languages are global languages and efficient to communicate. For instance, no middle-European empire has been successful (Holy Roman Empire, Napoleon, Hitler, EU!); all constructive European empires have been based on islands and peninsulas. In a chronological order (also clockwise): Greece, Rome, Spain/Portugal, England.

Yes I compare Catalonia vs. rest of Spain, and I see that since the late 70s, when they were given regional powers, Madrid has grown much more than them.

Well, saying that the PNV ideology is racist may be correct (if it is true) or incorrect (if it is not), but “imperialistic”? Aren’t you using this word as liberals use “racist”, i.e. when loosing an argument? :) Read the ideology of their founding father.

I do not see any fratricidal speech, but I cannot let pass statements like "the PNV has fought the ETA, when they have been playing the god cop – bad cop since the 80s, at least. I suggest that you try new sources of information.

You say they do not want Spaniards in the Basque Country. And who do you think is interested in relocating there? Do you know how many Basque people have left the area for Spain? Fortunately, the ones with the highest human and financial capital :)

Oh, very good, you are not imperialistic; you would only like to break Spain to pieces and take part of Asturias! And Cataluña should also get Aragon and Valencia… Dear, have you any idea about the opinion of the people in Valencia and Aragon?

Outdated my blog? Well, I only post some four times a day.

BTW, I like Portugal, I have spend several holidays there: Douro, Porto, Figueira, Peniche, Ericeira, Caparica, Alentejo-Algarve. I enjoy the company of Portuguese people, I find no relevant cultural difference with them.

Afonso Henriques said...

First of all, this article is so outdated that this will be my last comment in this interesting discussion.

Now to what matters:

If you read Alfonso, that's of little importance, we don't have to argue about spelling, don't you agree? Don't worry about that 'cos I won't!
Sorry for having tought you were being to paternalistic (maybe that's not the exact word I was lookong for).

You say that I dedicate more than 80% of my time to non jihad issues. You're right. And I don't think it is necessary bad.
As someone recently putted it, Islam is not the enemy, the enemy is that European leftist blood.

I can not comdemn muslims for what they're doing. They are, in my view, simple pawns in a much complex great chess.
I see them as the political correct "minority" to be targeted (specially from America) because they are the only non-whites with such a great Civilisation and with such a great History of arrest against Europe that they have already, through History and through their religion, a tactic to take over power.
The other "minorities" are only in eraly stage and will (I hope) never get the sofistication of the muslim net.

The ones I comdemn are the traitors, the leftie Europeans who have created all this, and still continue doing nasty things.

I will give you a short exemple of what is happening in Portugal, a country with few muslims. You can google it to find more information if you will. Cova da Moura, a no go area, is inhabited by Christian blacks/africans which Nationality is Portuguese (sad thing). The first generation was poor but honored, good working. The second generation are a bunch of robbers, rapists, murderers, etc, etc. They are Christians. Well, the majority of the youth is post-Christian or something... Their only religion seems to be humiliate Portugal like muslims humiliate Europe in general. Now, the big surprise! The 30000 Muslims in Portugal, of whom great part are sucessfully buisnessmen, have their own Islamic Organisation. That Organisation build a mini-mosque there to "get new disfavoured souls to Islam". In america some rappers talk about France, urging "all the niggers and all the arabs to stand up against the racist white state", "rape the white woman, kill their father", etc.
(PS- you may know Miguel, who plays for Valência. He has recently been in trouble with the police in Spain because something that happened in a pub. Well, if he's not from that neighbourhood, he is from an adjacent one. I have friends in the police in that area and my sources say that his brother has been arrested (by the police) at least twice for stabbing people in the back. But he somehow did never got a prision sentence from a judge so... you can see how we're going. Anyway, what he had to say to Portugal about the incident is that we was normally there, than a un-uniformed police came in and started jerking around with his crew; he then states that "30 sconds later" he was in the floor and the police oficier was calling for more police via radio saying "the niggers have stolen, there is always the niggers, niggers sons of the bitch"... yeah right, I don't belive him much, just like the majority of the Portuguese.)

But muslims are not like blacks, they are far more sofisticated, and we in Hispania have tasted what is like to be under their rule. I don't see muslims as being more evil than blacks or more evil than whites. It is not, for my understanding, about evil. I just think the traitors are the ones who are evil. One can not blame the adversary for having efficient tatics.

Your second point is poisonous.
I agree with you that Portuguese have "better manners" than the Spaniards in general. (And we both know what that means. It is not any kind of cultural superiority).

I do agree that Portuguese are more politically incorrect. But I think it can be explained. A Spaniard is always proud. Since democracy, we have never had right wing in Portugal. If you talk about Franco in Spain you will be considered a Spaniard, if you talk about Salazar in Portugal you will be considered Adolf Hitler himself, though in the family or with close friends we say whatever we want, in public Salazar is taboo.
For Exemple,
last year a TV show was aired in wich the Portuguese people would vote who was the Greatest Portuguese of all time. Though more than 35 years have passed since the death of Salazar, when he won with more than 40% of votes out of the ten final candidates, an high ranking communist screamed:
"This show is unconstitutional, apology to fascism is punnishable by the Portuguese constitution!". No body censured her. Though most Portuguese do not see Salazar as the greatest Portuguese, he was "the big figure" of our XX century.
Another factor is the Spnish Civil War, which divided the Spanish society even further. The Portuguese society (the real Portuguese) is one of the most homogenious in the world for sure. It is uncomparable to Spain. In Portugal everybody was with Salazar in the begining and everybody was against Salazar since the late 50s and everybody was against the war of 61 to 74 which took a million of Portuguese soldiers and a million of Portuguese returned to Portugal from the colonies (though the majority of the Portuguese were really for the war in a sense of a National duty in the first years, and even after those inicial years, when the bodies which returned in coffins were so many that did not recieved military honours started to arrive constantly, many Portuguese felt pride of the soldiers, the Nation and the war.) in a country of 10 million ppl.

The thing is we are so homogenious, so united (and even if you would gave Galiza to us, we would coninue so) as a society that we do not have to be PC. We don't have to be it because we are a Nation in the most profound meaning of the world. When we think all the same about big things (and I am not referring to som right/left politics) we don't have to be PC.

Spain, the USA and other countries are so divided that need to be PC in order to maintain order. Look what Zapatero did about the historic memory bill! All the Spaniard society went divided. It divided even families.

The closer we ever got to that was about the referendum on abortation, but it can not be compaired to what is happening is Spain, because in Portugal nobody remember that referendum any longer (it was a year or less ago).

That's why we are not PC. We don't have to!

Concearning your third point, I think that the sentece is not generic and it is has a lot of meaning. It is not meaningless or questionable.
Yes, I can read Spanish but I am not as good in Spanish as in English.
The only thing I do not agree is that you put Spain and the Roman Empiere in that list of yours.
The key of Roman success resides in Rome's superiority to its neighbours, be it cultural or military. I think of Rome as the
"Civiliser" of Europe.
Spain, on the other hand, I don't consider it to be constuctive/successfull.
It's borders are not well defined troughout History in the moments of Spanish "high glory" (apogeu) (ex. Carlos V, Felipe II,), also it has not a people in a sense of a united people. It has peoples.

By reading your link fastly, I think that Charles Magne Empiere was quiet successfull and a German-Austrian Empiere like the Grmanic Confederation did had some success.

"Yes I compare Catalonia vs. rest of Spain, and I see that since the late 70s, when they were given regional powers, Madrid has grown much more than them."
Yes, agreed.
But the question is, if Spain was only Castilla and Andalucia (or something like that) would Madrid grow that hard? I don't think so.
I think two hundred years ago, both Lisbon and Barclona wer bigger than Madrid. Am I wrong?
I may be, it's only an impression.

"Aren’t you using this word as liberals use “racist”, i.e. when loosing an argument?"
No, I am not.
Imperialistic in the sense that "Castillans" are doing everything they can to mantain Bilbao under Madrid. Even calling basques racists.

"Do you know how many Basque people have left the area for Spain? Fortunately, the ones with the highest human and financial capital"
Really? Weren´t the ones who were so poor they had to leave home back because Franco ordered Guernica?

"Oh, very good, you are not imperialistic; you would only like to break Spain to pieces and take part of Asturias!"
Yes, I would. Sorry if it offends you but I think Portugal (and Galiza) are no different from Catalonia (with Valencia and part of Aragon). I see Spain as a big evil empire. Not Spaniards, not Castillans but Spain. Spain looks like the "Iberian" Union. I think Portugal could be Catalonia and i think Galiza attests it.

"Dear, have you any idea about the opinion of the people in Valencia and Aragon?"
Well, I know they do not want to be governed by both Madrid or Barclona. I don't think they diserve an independent State. I think they should have the right to chose wether they want to be rulled by Madrid or by Barcelona.
Though I think they are Catalans too, ethnically speaking.

I will say that we (Europeans) have bigger enemies than each other.
Though I would not like to see an independent Basque Country gain independence like Ireland did during th First World War if Spain was having problems with, say, Maroccans, wether in Moroco or in Spain itself.

"Outdated my blog?"
Sorry, but the link I had was this:
"La tereira Yad" or something. Not "La Yad en Eurabia".

"the PNV has fought the ETA, when they have been playing the god cop – bad cop since the 80s, at least."
Well the Bsques are a distinct people. I think they should have their own State if they want so. PNV has won all the elections in Viscaya and Giupuzoca.
It's time for you to thank the good cop for being good, otherwise, you are creating extremists to join ETA. I'm sympathetic with the Basque cause. I am sorry if I offend you in any way by this.

Well, I don't like Spain as an institution but I like the places people call Spain. Actually, I never went to much inside Spain: Vigo, Sanxexo, small towns in Southern Galiza, Mérida, Badajoz, most of the Southern coast from Portugal to Málaga; Sevilha, etc.
And I am planning to spent the eastern (Páscoa) holidays in or near Salamanca.
I don't like the comapny of Spanish people exactly because I found such cultural diversity among Spain that I can not think of such thing as the Spanish people. Though, I enjoy Galegos, Extremeños, Andaluzes, and I have benn glad for meeting some Castillans and Catalães here in Portugal. When I say cultural difference, I don't mean incompatibility, I mean cultural specifications. But one thing I've noticed, excepting the Galegos, the Spaniards are, as a whole, happier and more festives than Portuguese. We are more sad than you. One thing I don't aprecite is Spaniards are "too loud" and sometimes a bit arrogant.
I loved Vigo and maybe that's maybe why I want to make it Portugal (besides all the rest).
I hope Salamanca to be great, I will then tell you how are the Leonese people... I don't think they differ fom Castillans!

I found, in my humble opinion, Galiza to be Portuguese, Badajoz, Mérida, Extremadura as a whole, to be "Spanish" and Southern Spain to be a blend between "Spanish" identity and a strong local identity, more in Seville than Málaga or MArbella. I think the Andaluzes can be labeled as "Spanish" too. The few Catalans I have met, differ a bit from the "Spanish" mainstream. That's just what I have to say for now.
I will for sure visit your blog.