Saturday, July 23, 2011

What Do We Know?

The mass murderer at Utøya is now said to have been a Norwegian named Anders Behring Breivik. He is reported to have posted frequent comments at various anti-jihad websites up until sometime last year. The Scandinavians tell me that these comments showed mainstream Counterjihad sentiments, with no incitements to violence or evidence of homicidal insanity.

Perhaps for that reason, some people have rushed to identify Mr. Breivik as “one of us”, that is, a member of the Counterjihad, more or less like me, Fjordman, Bat Ye’or, Robert Spencer, or Geert Wilders. This is absurd. If this slanderous meme is pushed by the MSM and they continue to beat that hollow drum, then judge them by their fruits.

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Let’s tackle the notion of “repudiation”. If someone reports an act of murderous violence, and fails to say “I repudiate this act”, does that report therefore constitute approval or tacit support?

Obviously not. If readers are unable to detect the implicit repugnance and horror when we write about such things, then the fault lies with the reader, who is using his own agenda to jump to his own conclusions.

And how can the Utøya fiend be characterized as “one of us”?

At no time has any part of the Counterjihad advocated violence, and its raison d’être is to eschew violence, to preserve law and order, and to uphold the rights of the individual.

There is nothing in any mission statement of any group I have ever associated with that discusses mass murder as a legitimate operational tactic. In fact, regular readers of Gates of Vienna have seen us delete comments containing such sentiments. Those comments are always wrong.

I refuse to stoop to the minutiae of time-wasting “repudiations”. It’s a Sisyphean task.

This reminds me of the left’s relentlessly malign attacks on anyone who sets foot outside the narrow multicultural ghetto. Those who dare to disagree become “racists”, “fascists”, “xenophobes”, and all the other pejoratives aimed at heretics who refuse to genuflect to their dogmas and their High Priests.

It’s a mug’s game.

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The person who did this vile deed is clearly deranged. The writers he cites have written on behalf of human rights and for the international convention of human rights. It makes no sense that he would justify his appalling actions by what he read there.

This has nothing more to do with us than Jared Loughner had to do with Sarah Palin.

As Dymphna said earlier today:

This foul deed puts the man outside the pale of any human community. I categorically reject the claim that he is “one of us”. Indeed, he is not, and I don’t care what his words were. By his acts he is judged, and those killings, ipso facto, make him a City of One, alone in whatever hatred or insanity he dwells.

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I wrote last night about the uncanny similarities between yesterday’s Oslo bombing and the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, right down to the (quite reasonable) suspicion that Islamic terrorists may well have played a part in the logistics, if not the execution, of the horrific deed.

As one of my more knowledgeable contacts said in an email this morning:

The attacks leaves a lot of questions. To the best of my knowledge, no army on earth teaches how to make bombs out of fertilizer. To make a large and effective one takes specialized training and practice. Something one gets typically at Al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

The level of tradecraft displayed here is far too high to be a classic lone nut. It has to involve several people at various preliminary stages, if not the actual execution stage. And there may not be a single set of motives for this action.

Similar analyses are being offered elsewhere, by people with far more expertise in this field than I have.

We are left with the persistent suspicion that there is more to the Oslo atrocity than meets the eye. The Utøya massacre is very different, and hardly seems to fit the profile. One can’t help but wonder if both actions really were carried out by the same person working entirely alone.

When discussing the incident, it’s crucial to keep in mind what we know. We actually know very little beyond what has been released by the Norwegian authorities or published by the state media. Additional material comes from semi-private media — not much Scandinavian journalism operates with no state subsidy whatsoever — and sources derived from them. The journalistic digging has just barely begun.

Until an independent investigator à la Jayna Davis emerges, we must take almost everything published with a grain of salt.

Consider these questions:

1. How do you know the man who made those comments on various websites is the man who is in custody now?
2. How do you know that the identity assigned to the man existed more than a few days ago?
3. Has anyone tracked the supposed culprit from childhood through high school and university, right up to today? If this were the USA, hundreds of reporters would be analyzing his old report cards, talking to his aunties, interviewing his former employers, etc. Is any of that happening now in Norway?
4. Is there any substantive information about him that was not provided via the government or government-backed media?

The process of answering these questions has just begun. We have as yet no significant data on the murderer’s accomplices or preparations.

We need more information derived from something other than state sources. While we wait for additional data, to characterize Anders Behring Breivik as a particular type of ideologue — a “Nazi”, a “Zionist”, a “right-wing extremist”, or anything else — is to jump to conclusions.


Jewish Odysseus said...

My friends, as always we can count on the sober and non-politicized organs of European law enforcement to do a thorough and apolitical investigation. And Europe's elected leaders to draw the proper conclusions from those findings.

jeppo said...

Charles Johnson has a new post up, calling the killer "a product of the 'counter-jihad' blogs".

Using Johnson's "logic", and since Anders Breivik approvingly linked to LGF, I blame CJ for the massacre. After all, CJ made his name promoting the ethnic cleansing and genocide of the Palestinians, and LGF became known as one of the most infamous exterminationist blogs on the net. Presumably some of that murderous hatred rubbed off on CJ's acolyte Breivik, who took the lessons he learned on LGF to heart, and now--thanks to CJ's malevolent influence--close to 100 innocent people are dead.

Of course LGF is no longer a 'counter-jihad' blog (scare quotes courtesy of CJ). Now all of its vitriolic hatred is directed against white Christian conservatives rather than Muslims. Same hate, different target.

idomeneo said...

the most important thing to do right now is rush to judgement, it is too early, and we should definitely assume we are not going to get all the facts. The idea that this was done by one lone man though seems highly unlikely to me, just the logistics alone are mind boggling. We'll all have to wait and see. My hear goes out to the victims and their families.

Whiskey said...

From reporting (itself possibly flawed) the bombing was done by some sort of vehicle bomb. Meaning, the perp had to either walk away, or take a bus, or some sort of other vehicle, parked some distance away or driven by an associate.

Then as noted, fertilizer does not go off by itself, Home Depot Garden Centers are not exploding left and right. McVeigh practiced extensively with detonators (to the annoyance of the neighbors) while staying with Fortier at Kingman Arizona, precisely to assure that the bomb would work and his practice would go un-noticed.

Then the bomber had to go to the island, get on the island somehow (boat or ferry) and if the latter with his bag of guns and police uniform. Both of which are not easy to obtain in heavily controlled Norway.

I would say either this person had extensive help, or is a convenient patsy, ala Giovanni Ramirez (accused and cleared of beating Brian Stow at Dodger Stadium) or Richard Jewell (arrested and cleared of being the Atlanta Olympic Bomber).

A Common Loon said...

Regardless of perpetrator and purpose, even if it turns out to be someone entirely different than the man in custody, the damage has been done. The views and writings the press is publishing of this man are very similar to comments found on GoV. At one point, he even recommends Fjordman's book. In the next few days, I expect to read an exegesis on why "far right" beliefs drive one to kill children.

I am a strong supporter our movement and Fjordman. I agree with what we stand for and I could never believe for a second that we stand for senseless violence. Unfortunately this has nothing to do with what we think, but with what the public believes we think, and thanks to the reports already published the connection between us and him has already been made. In their mind, we are guilty. It is naive to underestimate the damage this has caused the pro-western movement in the public's eye.

Whiskey said...

The motives behind the attack if it was a "counter-jihad" person are unclear. It is as if John Wilkes Booth, enraged at Lincoln ... attacked Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis.

What this DOES look like, btw, is the numerous Chinese bombings done by outraged and wronged Han Chinese against top officials. Land stolen, kids run over by rich party sons, and the like. A guy pushed too far who takes revenge on the institutions that "destroyed him." There have to my memory at least five bus bombings in the provinces such as Sezchuan that meet that pattern.

idomeneo said...

The New York Times has reported along with several other newspapers that it was a "right wing conservative Christian" not a Muslim, the left must be salivating, god only knows what is store for us if this is true or made to be true. I'm with Micheal Savage on this one, something smells funny.

A Common Loon said...

I thought I smelled a rat too. Something about this whole thing doesn't add up. I know we (myself including) are likely to believe whatever the MSM feeds once they have the verdict on the entire story, but right now it doesn't sit right with me.

Its uncanny how convenient this is for leftists, but then again its easy to say that any act of Islamic terror is "convenient" for us.

Van Grungy said...

LONDON (AP) - In the wake of Norway's terrorist attack, the European police agency is setting up a task force of more than 50 experts to help northern European countries investigate non-Islamic terror threats, its spokesman told The Associated Press on Saturday.

Soeren Pedersen said the group, which is based in The Hague, hopes to help Norway and nearby countries in their investigations in the coming weeks. He said Norway has not requested forensic experts but that Europol could provide them if needed.

"There is no doubt that the threat from Islamist terrorism is still valid," he said. "But there have actually been warnings that (right-wing groups) are getting more professional, more aggressive in the way they attract others to their cause."

Since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, European countries have viewed Islamic terrorism as the primary threat. But the fact the suspect in Friday's twin attacks turned out to be a Norwegian with right-wing views is raising questions about whether homegrown, non-Islamic terror threats have been neglected.


that was pretty quick on the draw..


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Anonymous said...

I did not notice anyone mentioning Bombay.

Anonymous said...

Also, how can one be a conservative Christian and a freemason ? Conservative Christians positively hate freemasons.

Anonymous said...

Robert-- Better question: How can he be a Christian and murder innocent people? The media calling him a Christian is a slander to Christians everywhere.

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Van Grungy said...


kinda like marxianity..?

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Nick said...

There appear to be different Facebook pages for this guy. I saved one at 00.42 GMT 23d July, that is to say early this morning.

I've just opened it up and saved it as 3 jpeg files, using the Windows snipping tool.

Then uploaded the pics to photobucket.

Here's the link.

Unknown said...
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Unknown said...
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Nick said...

That photobucket effort wasn't successful. Let's try again.

Nick said...

Here's one that looks quite different.

See what you think.

Zenster said...

It still remains to be seen whether there is any evidence connecting the Oslo explosion (or explosions), with the Utøya massacre. That said, there is certainly much in this which militates against coincidence.

One oddball scenario might include pro-Islamists of Scandinavian appearance posing as Counterjihadists and recruiting Anders Behring Breivik to perpetrate a mass-murder against the children of Norwegian Liberals even as they themselves organized a parallel attack upon Oslo.

While, admittedly, far fetched it must be remembered that such a scenario would be a huge win-win for the pro-Islamists. The Oslo atrocity would ostensibly be blamed on Anders Behring Breivik even as the whole event was hung around the neck of "Right Wing Christian Extremists" like the political albatross this is certain to be.

I will be the first to concede that Muslim elements rarely display this sort of deep strategy. Yet, if one considers how the above pattern is nearly identical to Oklahoma City, a vague whiff of suspicion begins to waft about.

One place where I stand foursquare with the Baron is as follows:

At no time has any part of the Counterjihad advocated violence, and its raison d’être is to eschew violence, to preserve law and order, and to uphold the rights of the individual.

That said, I continue to predict the Muslim holocaust, even as I work to increase awareness about exactly which counter-terrorist measures could help to avert it (e.g., targeted assassinations).

In an identical manner, I also predict that indigenous Europeans will eventually get a belly-full of Liberal Multiculturalism to the point where there will be predictable violence against the politicians along with their spouses, children and relations.

Whether the attack (or attacks), by Anders Behring Breivik conclusively fits the immediately foregoing description or one provided even earlier in this comment remains to be seen.

One thing remains absolutely sure; by continually de-emphasizing the immense peril that Islam poses to Europe and America, Western politicians both embolden Islamic terrorists and increasingly antagonize their indigenous citizenry to the point where all bets may soon be off.

Again, while none of this would be happening without the direct involvement of Islam ― which, alone, must accept ultimate responsibility for this entire state of affairs ― Politically Correct Multi-Culturalist politicians have both facilitated Islamic terrorism and, wittingly or not, driven their respective populations to last-resort measures.

Only time will tell, if at all, which one of these various models we have witnessed in Oslo and Utøya.

Please DO NOT even remotely attempt to construe any of the foregoing as condoning or even taking the form of tacit approval for these heinous acts. My sole point in making these conjectures is to illustrate how the dots now in discussion were already in existence for quite some time and merely awaiting someone who would finally connect them.

John Pierre said...

Just after his name was released last night, I like many others checked it out on Facebook and first impressions were very odd.

He fitted almost to a tee the epitome of what the left like to imagine the 'far-right' to be.

It seemed all too perfect, I may be wrong and I'm no fan of conspiracy theories but it seemed too good to be true.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their families.

It was a cowardly act against innocent and unarmed civilians.

Félicie said...

This is from the other thread, which is closed. A commenter said: "Or, he is a puppet either trained or drugged to do the will of some shadowy organization, to discredit the ''right'' or anti-immigration movement."

OK, call me a conspiracy nut, but I am leaning in the same direction. As I said elsewhere, psychotropic drugs are amazing these days. You can turn a person into a puppet. This doesn't pass my "smell" test.

Félicie said...

"The person who did this vile deed is clearly deranged. "

Or drugged, hypnotized, and brainwashed.

Anonymous said...

Come now, Jonathan. Do you really think there is no basis whatsoever for considering Islam/Muslims to be more violent than Christianity/Christians, such that it is legitimate to view terrorism as being more characteristic of Islam than of Christianity? None at all? How many Christian terrorist attacks have there been, other than this one? Any? And how many Muslim terrorist attacks have there been? Hundreds? Isn't this case sort of the exception that proves the rule with regard to so-called "Christian" terrorists?

I do understand that there are certain readings of the Koran which supposedly prohibit shedding innocent blood, and I admit that it is theoretically possible to both be a good Muslim and a civilized human being. But you have to wonder -- why do so many terrorists also have associations with Islam, rather than Christianity? Is it merely a coincidence? Statistically, that is rather unlikely, don't you think?

Finally, the Koran clearly demands a perpetual state of war with all non-Muslims. Yes, perhaps this does not technically allow them to kill civilians. But the suggestion is definitely there, the "state of war." In the Bible, on the other hand, we see Christians encouraged to "spread the good news" but this is always done through speech, not violence. Christians were much more likely, in the New Testament, to be the victims of violence. In many parts of the world this story is being replayed...

Félicie said...

"Jonathan" - on blogger from July 2011. A leftist troll?

Dymphna said...


Probably. He's is the other July 2011 'blogger'

Franklin said...

Watch! Here it begins! A call from the UN for world wide personal firearms disarmament. Get the firearms out of the hands of the "slaves" world wide. Hillary Clinton has already signed such a treaty in the guise of "public safety"! Time to bury 50% of your firearms and ammo, the UN Gestapo will be kicking in your door soon! Mark my words! This is nothing more tahn a left wing socialist world wide conspiracy! Time to hunker down brother and sisters!!!

Zenster said...

Something I neglected to mention and only tangentially hit upon in my previous post is that ― if, in fact, pro-Islamists did manage to coordinate this entire bloodletting (i.e., programming Anders Breivik and touching off the Oslo blasts) ― there was a hidden "two-fer" amidst all this in that gay loving, feminist agenda Liberals were murdered in both situations. Those are results that could only warm the cockles of any Islamist's heart.

A circumstance that militates against such a theory is how immigrant Muslims are thoroughly dependent upon Liberals in order to colonize Europe. Still, this has never stopped Islamic terrorists from killing Liberals and Leftists whenever it serves their goals.

nuum said...


The expression "one of us" used in some comments here and in other counter-jihad blogs sounds very suspicious.
Leftists infiltrators ?

Luke Ahead said...

Dear Baron, Fjordman and other non-violent counter-jihadists,

I's been a crappy couple of days also for those who built their assessments of faulty sources. But heads up.

One is for sure now - jihadists don't have the monopoly for terrorism. The Norwegian extremist was much more vicious than religiously motivated Islamic jihadists, and he's still alive unlike most of them.

Lets take lessons from faulty assessments.

Luke Ahead

Zenster said...

Luke Ahead: The Norwegian extremist was much more vicious than religiously motivated Islamic jihadists, and he's still alive unlike most of them.

You have got to be kidding! Even far more disturbing is the notion that you sincerely meant what you just typed.

Are we supposed to believe that flying fully loaded passenger jet airliners into occupied skyscrapers with the specific intent of toppling them over onto other occupied, densely crowded buildings ranks even remotely close to this Norwegian incident? Are you really that unclear about how the 9-11 atrocity was specifically intended to kill many more than the nearly 3,000 people that it did?

Are we supposed to believe that killing almost two hundred young schoolchildren in Beslan, many of whom were shot in the back as they fled captivity, with many of the young girl hostages raped repeatedly is not far worse that what happened in Oslo and Utøya?

You are attempting to draw some sort of moral relativism where nothing of the sort even remotely applies.

Islam, on a daily basis, continues to murder, rape, mutilate, amputate, torture and behead people even as it perpetrates innumerable other abject violations of human rights.

Are you suggesting that the West has anything close to such a dismal track record?,

You seem to be in dire need of a major recalibration when it comes to judging the evils performed by others.

What happened in Oslo and Utøya is a total exception to normal events in the West. Islam can make no such claim.

Luke Ahead said...

Dear Zenster,

Am I suggesting that the West has anything close to such a dismal track record?

No, with due respect, I meant that Breivik, the Norwegian extremist is still alive after slaughtering 90 odd kids..., whilst most successful Islamic martyrs are celebrating with drinking water and dactyles with their obese virgins (?)

My assessment is that this attrocious act must appear scarry not only to us Europeans, in this new Eurpe (we'll see how far EU goes), but also to ordinary Muslims paying zakat here in Europe.

I will say that again - whilst we've been getting most strategic assessments right, lets learn lesson from the fact that some of us had guessed mistakenly in the case of Breivik (e.g. he was of Caucasian origin)

Of course this tragedy will have some sort of impact on the non-violent counter-jihad movement and our freedom of speech here in Europe will be targeted because of this.

But we must not surrender - our arguments in counter-jihad are legitimate.

Luke Ahead

Zenster said...

Luke Ahead: But we must not surrender - our arguments in counter-jihad are legitimate.

Then, surely, you must recognize how this incident is a perfect example of the "discontinuities" which El Inglés predicted so long ago.

While I can in no way condone the actions of Anders Breivik, there easily may be many others who think ― and quite possibly rightly so ― that his was a first and long overdue shot across the bow of Europe's treasonous Politically Correct Multi-Culturalists.

Regardless of whether or not I am correct, there will be more than a few European Socialists who sleep a rather uneasy sleep tonight. For some time now I have been predicting that native Europeans would strike back against their treasonous masters. For that reason, I may be dismayed but not surprised.

Never would I have dreamed of trading so much innocent human life in order to have gained such an objective, irrespective of how very badly needed this moment of nervous introspection was needed on the part of Europe's political class.

Be that as it may, I am confident in saying that many of these same Politically Correct Multi-Culturalist European politicians had plans or intentions that included far more horrific outcomes for a much greater number of Europe's people.

The betrayal and treason simply has gone on for far too long to imagine that many of these bureaucrats have not already anticipated a day when uncooperative, indigenous Europeans are herded off into reeducation camps in favor of leaving unmolested their erstwhile Muslim constituencies who will keep voting them into office so long as the crocodile continues to get fed.

Few, if any, of these Socialist bastards are looking beyond that time when the crocodile feeders run out of food.

My assessment is that this attrocious act must appear scarry not only to us Europeans, in this new Europe (we'll see how far EU goes), but also to ordinary Muslims paying zakat here in Europe.

It would be comforting to believe that you are right but there is little that indicates anything of the sort.

Were there even one or two prominent Muslims who vociferously exhorted their fellow believers to reconsider just how quickly things might turn nasty should this jihad nonsense continue unabated, then I might believe there was some merit to what you say.

Islam's hubris is so monumental that it likely will not pause to reconsider its predilection for mayhem until a sizable portion of this world's Muslim population has been obliterated. If anyone can produce even slightly convincing evidence to the contrary, I will happily withdraw my assertion.

To date, there is nothing that poses an incontrovertible and existential threat to Islam. For that reason, it will continue to remain unconvinced of its vulnerability.

Just now, Europe's Politically Correct Multi-Culturalist politicians have gotten their first glimpse of the repercussions that await further betrayal of their own kith and kin.

That it, evidently, required something of so horrific a magnitude is testimony to just how abject and thorough this betrayal has been. I sincerely wish that none of this were the case but there is no rational part of me that can dismiss the simple possibility that Anders Breivik's actions are just the beginning of a grueling reconfiguration for Europe's political landscape.

laine said...

Reporting on the killer's "Christianity" is malevolent on the left wing media's part. Did he claim to be acting in the name of his religion for the glory of his God the way every last Muslim terrorist does? Are there massive numbers of Christians who cheer him on? The Left is drawing a completely false parallel between Muslim terrorists for whom there's even a complimentary term in Islam "jihadi" and this nutcase killer of children who is no Christian any actual Christian would recognize.