Tuesday, June 23, 2009

Barry Soetoro: Muslim or Apostate?

A reader wrote to us a few days ago with some questions about Barry Soetoro:

I’m doing research on “the great one”. I read your article, “Indonesia, Terrorism, and Barry Soetoro” from October 30, 2008, about Obama studying in Indonesia, praying and speaking Arabic. I believe it’s true, in light of the fact that now we know he speaks fluent Arabic, whereas before he said he spoke “no” foreign languages.

I wanted to know your references so I can specify the following as true.

1. How do you know that Ann, his mother, was a Muslim?

2. How do you know he prayed each day?

Barry Soetoro in Indonesia

The post in question was researched and almost entirely written by our Flemish correspondent VH, who has in-depth experience with Indonesian affairs. I asked him for answers to our reader’s inquiries, and he sent the following response:

1. How do you know that Ann, his mother, was a Muslim?

A non-Muslim can only marry a Muslim when he/she converts in a mosque, preceding the marriage (which must take place in a mosque):

Stanley Ann Dunham’s relationship with the Kenyan-born Muslim Barack Hussein Obama Sr. might have brought her in contact with Islam*. If she married him to become his second wife, she must have converted to Islam first: no Muslim will marry a non-converted woman, certainly not in a religiously-devoted Muslim family like the Husseins. Although it is less strict with extra wives, concubines, or slaves.

When Stanley Ann Dunham married the Indonesian citizen and Muslim Lolo Soetoro, she was already a Muslim, or had converted. Otherwise she could not have married him (and that must have taken place in a mosque). The marriage in Indonesia, or the legalization of the marriage documents (which had to be accompanied by a marriage document from a mosque) would also have been necessary to achieve an Indonesian residency permit for herself, and citizenship for Hussein Jr.

2. How do you know he prayed each day?
- - - - - - - - -
Barry Soetoro was a devoted Muslim. Devout Muslims pray five times a day:

The most important clue about this is that Barry Soetoro not only received the regular Islamic teachings in primary school like everyone else, but he was even sent to a Mengaji: voluntary orthodox Islamic teachings (basically madrassa-like classes, reciting in Arabic). This happened during his formative years (6-11). Indonesians, when asked about Mengaji, are very clear: only the very devout (strict) Muslims would send their children to a Mengaji.

Another clue is from the witnesses: Rony Amir, for instance, who knew Barry*, stated that he was a remarkably devoted Muslim in his Indonesian years: A non-devout Muslim will usually still try to do the morning prayer before sunrise or the prayer at night. Almost every day. Devoted Muslims, however, will pray five times a day. Barry was a devout Muslim, as Rony Amir remembered.

This combined with the voluntary Mengaji classes makes it certain that he prayed at least once a day. This also leads to the following conclusion: Barry Soetoro is a Muslim, or he is an apostate (In Indonesia, many are convinced he is not an apostate and forgive him the taqiyya).

His connection with Islam might have faded a little over the years, though, as result of the upbringing by his non-Muslim grandparents, but it only takes an all-Muslim environment for a devoted Muslim to switch back.

I hope this will answer the questions. As footnote I would like to refer to the links in the article on Soetoro at Gates of Vienna.

* In those days Islam was — at least in Indonesia — still considered by some as a religion of the “resistance”, as opposed to Christianity being the religion of “the West”. There are rumors that Ann Dunham might even have had a relationship with Malcolm Little (a.k.a. “X”). Little was also a Muslim and even a member of the radical Nation of Islam.


Zenster said...

In yet another sterling example of Muslim cognitive dissonance, The One's apostasy is ignored utterly just as his purported Christianity is equally overlooked.

As I have always maintained, concern over Dear Leader's possible status as a stealth Muslim is irrevelant. For how enthusiastically he osculates Islamic arse, he may as well be a Muslim anyway.

JamesD'Troy said...

There's been a lot of conjecture of what BHO actually believes.

Spengler over at the Asia Times, had the most riveting explanation in his article, "Obama's Women Reveal His Secret: He Hates America". http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/JB26Aa01.html

The gist of Spengler's article is that to understand the man(Obama) you have to look at the primary women in his life: His mother, a gone native leftist and his wife; a racially agrieved black separatist.

Although, I largely agree with Spengler, after looking at Obama's family, his associations, his words and deeds, I think his beliefs are more closely aligned to those of Ann Holmes Redding. The recently defrocked Episcopal priest who believed that she could be a practicing Episcopalian and Muslim simultaneously.

Absolutely nutty, sure, but consider that he spent 20+ years in the heretical anti-semetic Black Liberation church of Rev. Wrong. I'm willing to wager that Obama believes in a similar fusion of Christianity and Islam and that Obama narcissitically believes that he hemself, best represents that fusion.

sheik yer'mami said...

The Muslim POTUS doesn't need to be an apostate, because "war is deceit", according to Muhammad, the prophet of Islam. And the Obamessiah, along with his handlers and backers, succeeded in deceiving America. The racist black church of the ex-Muslim Jeremiah Wright is closely associated with the NOI, the Nation of Islam, and teaches the same race hatred against whites as Farraklan. Nothing is what it seems, but calling "Black Liberation Theology" a "Christian church" is a far cry by any stretch of the imagination.

No, I'm convinced that this parvenue, this impostor is the Manchurian candidate. He will destroy America, Capitalism and Israel. Mark my words!

joe six-pack said...

Seeing as his major objective is CHANGE, I tend to believe that he really does not like our country the way that it is. His remarks indicate to me that he believes capitalism to be evil and wrong. He certainly believes that we should NOT spread our version of captialism and democracy. In fact, just the opposite.

How successful he will be in changing the United States remains to be seen. He does seem to have made a good start.

wildiris said...

For those of you who are Spengler fans and don't already know this, his real name is David Goldman and he writes for the Christian publication, First Things. You can find him at www.firstthings.com.

ɱØяñιηg$ʇðя ©™ said...

The fact that there actually exists witnesses that can confirm Soetero was a devout muslim during his indonesian days speaks volumes. I'm convinced that he is a taqyyia muslim. It is quite possible that he is also a manchurian. The purpose is probably to destroy the west. Europe they don't need to worry about since we're already in the grip of EU and are also heavily islamized already. The only big threat to their grand plans of world domination is the USA. They don't have the time to do Europe all over again as it would take decades. Instead they install a trojan horse as President. If their plans click they will islamize US in no time at all compared to Eurabia simply because a trojan muslim prez.

Dymphna said...

wild iris --

I almost dropped the magazine when I first read the news about Goldman in "First Things". I may have posted on it, I forget. But I did exchange some emails with Joseph Bottum, the editor.

Goldman comes at just the right time for "FT". Losing Richard Neuhaus was huge; Goldman's presence doesn't make up for it, but he does go aways in filling a dark hole that will remain where Fr. Neuhaus stood.

Dymphna said...

For more info on Barry dating back from before the election, do see this blog: An American Ex-Pat in Southeast Asia

Scroll down a little till you come to the post where he recounts how Time magazine went after him because he took a little trip to Barry's old school and looked at the records. Took some photos of them, iirc.

Boy, was the MSM threatened...I think he's feeling pretty badly about the US since the election. No doubt he'll STAY an ex-pat now.

Imagine going after a small blog. Those guys were scared it would get out. However, Barry has some magic power. The normal paper trail that exists for the rest of us has been erased for him. Except for that school in Indonesia, where ex-pat is.

What's he doing there? Well, his mission is to bring good Tex-Mex food to Indonesia...

Hesperado said...

"no Muslim will marry a non-converted woman"

Actually, that's just plain incorrect. According to Islamic law, it's okay for a Muslim man to marry a non-Muslim woman, but NOT for a Muslim woman to marry a non-Muslim man.

There is Islamic logic to this: in their universe, women have virtually no power in the marriage, and the man dictates things. There is thus little threat that a non-Muslim woman will exert influence over the dominant Muslimh husband -- indeed, they expect that over time, she will succumb to Islam through the domination of the husband. A non-Muslim man marrying a Muslim woman is quite another story, and is perceived as quite a threat for the same reasons, only reversed.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Baron Bodissey said...

Federale --

Gates of Vienna's rules about comments require that they be civil, temperate, on-topic, and show decorum. Your comment violated the last of these rules. We keep a PG-13 blog, and exclude foul language, explicit descriptions, and epithets. This is why I deleted your comment.

Use of asterisks is an appropriate alternative.


Federale said...

Sorry, not convinced that Stanley was a Muslim. She was obviously a communist, but Obambi Sr. was a commie at the time as well, although a patriarchial Muslimish one at that, but his primary focus was [entering into a sexual liaison with] a white chick, of which few in Hawaii would avail themselves, but, even more importantly, staying in the U.S. Marriage was the quickest and surest way. It is obvious from how soon he abandoned the little commie [expletive].

Now as the typical anti-white commie, the proto-neo-marxist, Stanley thought that any brown man was OK and husband #2 was brown, but soon became a capitalist and supporter of Sukarno. So, Stanley left him.

Now, Obama is a Muslim, but that has nothing to do with Stanley, other than she hated Christians. Letting her son be raised by Mullahs was better than exposing him to Christianity. You must understand neo-Marxism which replaces the proles with people of a color other than white and not Christian.

Zenster said...

Dymphna: ...good Tex-Mex food ...

Now, hold it right there. Them's fightin' words.

Tex-Mex is the red headed stepchild of true Mexican cuisine and many reasonable Hispanics would legitimately argue that "good Tex-Mex" is an oxymoron.

Typical Tex-Mex food tends to be overburdened with cheese, sauce and even meats, ingredients which are expensive and more sparingly allocated in genuine Mexican cooking.

I offer you a delightful set of recipies with which you may test true Mexican flavors. First off:

Salsa Casera
Home Style Salsa


3 – 10 Serrano Chiles
2 – 3 White Onions (do not substitute)
3 – 6 Salad Tomatoes (not Romas or plum style)
¼ – ½ Cup of Chopped Cilantro (less is better)
1 Tablespoon Salt, or more (according to taste)
1 Tablespoon Vegetable Oil


Select serrano chiles with attached stems
Use these as handles while chopping peppers into coins
Slice peppers until reduced into small circles
Gentle sauté in a skillet or deep cookpot

Chop white onions into fine dice
Add to heated pan with some oil
Once the onions begin to wilt
Continue to fry lightly until transparent
(DO NOT Brown)

Add finely chopped tomato
Add minced cilantro
Salt to taste

Cook completely and turn off heat
Store cooled product in tightly sealed jars
Refrigerate and use in less than a week

For a model, sample Herdez Salsa Casera
Preferably in the small 7.0 oz. Mexican cans

Hispanic housewives I know swear by this brand.

(Next up, a true Pico de Gallo recipe)

Vinegar Joe said...

Under Indonesian law, there are only 5 legal religions. People may only marry within the same faith. In reality, 99% of Christians, Buddhists, Hindus and Catholics convert to Islam if they want to marry a Muslim. (Yes, I know Catholics are Christians but Indonesians look at it differently).

Lao said...


Thanks, keep it up and you might cure me of this bad case of writer's block ;-)


Hesperado said...

GOV is being remiss in not amending the claim of this article (namely, the claim by its featured author, their Flemish correspondent VH, that "no Muslim will marry a non-converted woman").

No less an authority than Robert Spencer has noted, many times of the years on Jihad Watch, that:

Islamic law forbids a Muslim woman to marry a non-Muslim man -- although it allows a non-Muslim woman to marry a Muslim man.


Whether it is true, as "Vinegar Joe" asserts above, that Indonesia goes the extra mile to have created its own law even stiffer than Islamic law to the effect that "people [both male and female, it is assumed] may only marry within the same faith" requires credible corroboration beyond a mere assertion.

Unknown said...

@ Erich: Your response is completely besides the point: Nowhere in the article it is stated that a Muslim man is not allowed to marry a non-Muslim woman.

Furthermore, Robert Spencer is right, but even though it is allowed, there still are "conditions" in the details that are besides the point in the article you link to, but might be interesting for you to know:

It is allowed for a Muslim man to marry a Christian or Jewish woman ("People of the Books" are recognized Dhimmi's as long as they pay the jizyah etc.) in the Dar al Islam. In the Dar al kufr though, such a marriage is mukrooh tanzihi, short from haram. A marriage with an atheïst or non-religious woman (and others than those "of the Books") is not allowed at all: such marriages are simply invalid according to the Shari'ah.

The children of marriages with non-Muslim woman are the key to this issue: it is all about the expansion of the world wide Muslim community. There are many ways in, but no way out. These children are considered Muslim and must be raised a Muslim. When any of these children will ever be raised as a non-Muslim, by the non-Muslim mother during the marriage or after a divorce for instance, the Muslim father will be "murtid", which is an equivalent of "apostacy".

This is why in general a Muslim man will not just marry a non-Muslim woman (exceptions mentioned). He will try to convert her first to prevent "trouble" later and to find approvement with his Muslim family and -community. This is why, when such marriage risks ending up in a divorce, the Muslim husband sometimes "brings" the children to his home country in the Dar al Islam. To prevent becoming "murtid". (If Hussein Sr. was the real father of Hussein Jr., he might have considered doing that.)

As Vinegar Joe explains here, the religions are — different from the practice in most of the Dar al kufr — strictly separated in the Dar al Islam and a marriage between a Muslim man and a non-Muslim woman can only be registered when the woman has (been) converted. That is not "stricter" nor "stiffer," but just the way it is in the Dar al Islam.

But in the article — if you had read it well you would have noticed it — it is not about whether it is allowed, but about willing to do so. Then there is custom, tradition and honor involved as well as the Shari'ah and Dar al Islam or Dar al kufr. Your "remark" therefore is not only completely besides the point, but with all respect somewhat ignorant in this case.