Saturday, June 12, 2010

PayPal Bites & The Baron Asks a Question

Sheesh. It’s hard to believe that the words of my last post have found a new reality point already. At Atlas Shrugs, this notice:

PayPal is calling Atlas a “hate” site and will close my account if I do not remove the PayPal option from my website.

Accurate reporting and news is hate.

Truth is the new hate speech.

The Jawa Report notes a certain discrepancy here:

PayPal Cuts Off Revolution Muslim Because It Is A Hate Site

Oh wait, PayPal cuts off Pam Geller of Atlas Shrugs because her site is a hate site. Revolution Muslim still has the PayPal button.

File this under dhimmitude/stealth jihad

This is disturbing. I had to really talk the Baron into installing a PayPal button for donations in the beginning. He’d heard all the horror stories and was concerned that they’d pull some stunt which would cause us to have donations taken away. I assured him that since we weren't selling anything there would be no problem.

Unfortunately, with a fairly new CEO at PayPal, the climate may be changing. It looks like we’ll have to consider abandoning ship before they toss us overboard, too. While I don’t contemplate that happening in a hurry - they’ll hassle big sites like Atlas first - it’s a good idea to look at alternatives. I’m sure there are lots of other payment sites that are less rigid and bureaucratic than PayPal appears to be.
- - - - - - - - -
That website which Jawa mentioned, the one PayPal seems to find perfectly acceptable, is evidently stridently hateful against anything non-Islamic. Obviously they have a double standard in operation. Quelle surprise!

Pamela Geller’s readers are sending lots of feedback to PayPal regarding this unfair and arbitrary decision. Sadly, I doubt it’ll do much good; PayPal doesn’t listen well. Her readers have lots of good suggestions about alternate payment places, however.

Evidently, Amazon is one of them. That’s a coincidence because I was looking at their “Associates” page today. Since we mention a fair number of books in our posts, it would make sense to consider their proposal - though I don’t understand it entirely yet.

I’ll get back to you on this issue when I’ve had more time to think about it and to contemplate our options - and to understand what’s on offer. However, this unfortunate situation dovetails with a proposal the Baron made before he left: that I ask our readers if some kind of advertising on Gates of Vienna would be acceptable.

So I am asking for your opinions, and the question has become more complicated now by this PayPal trickery. As I said, we're safe for quite a while, but it's a good idea to look at moving elsewhere for donations in addition to looking at other ways to raise money.

People are generous in our fund-raisers, but times are getting harder for everyone and our savings are dwindling. Thus we need to think about new ways to “monetize the blog”, as the jargon goes.

The recent Counterjihad intramural conflicts certainly don’t help. Not only are they a distraction, but they affect our readership to some extent. Not even a fraction of the effect Charles Johnson’s irrational hatred had, of course. It took us a long time to overcome the enormity of his evil. But there is collateral damage; we have determined to simply persevere in the face of efforts to have others shun our blog.

In other words, these conflicts - which we never engage - won’t change anything except at the margins. But even if they weren’t occurring we’d still need to explore ways to increase our income, and right now we have to do so in a poor economic climate. Several avenues are opening up - e.g., freelance editing - and they may allow us to keep ads off the blog. That is my hope, at any rate.

Feedback from our readers in this regard would be helpful. It seems rather murky to us at this point and we’re not sure how to proceed. That is, we’re not sure of our next step, but we now know we have to find a replacement for PayPal before we’re in the same predicament as Atlas Shrugs. At least on that one, there are lots of alternatives.

Please feel free to email or to leave comments regarding your opinion on these issues. It’s always good to get feedback.


Historyscoper said...

What's wrong with the age-old method of listing a p.o. box address for donations? Or is that too retro? :)

Dymphna said...


"Age-old" is right. People are stressed and busy, usually in that order. If they had to

1.find their checkbook,
2. get an envelope
3. tear off a stamp,
4. write a check
5. fill out the register
6. Put stamp, check and envelope together,
7. leave it where it's likely to get mailed...???

Serioulsy, how much would that cut into our donations?

And how about our readers who send a donation monthly by subscribing at PayPal? They don't have to think about it and it's easy for me to keep track, too.

The internet has made us choose the path of least resistance -- which is good because we get more done with less effort.

As a personal example, let's take the URL you left on your comment:

In order to visit your blog, I have to

1.scrape that out of the comments, up a new window
3.put it in the new window
4. click on the button,
5. wait for it to load or minimize while it does load...

However, if you'd used the template provided above our comment box, you could do this and most readers would be intrigued enough to right click your live link because it's so easy and doesn't interrupt what they're doing -- i.e., reading the comments. When they close this window, yours will open. Voila.

BTW, we do have donors who send checks because they don't trust PayPal.

We even have donors who send cash because they don't trust PayPal or banks not to nose around in their business. It is telling of the times that they trust the Post Office more than those worthies, but so far their method always works.

Also, a very important point: when we receive donation notices from PayPal, I have the pleasure of answering them since an email is provided. If I had to buy stationery, stamps, and spend the money on gas to drive 20 miles to the post office, what is right now a very pleasant task would become onerous quickly.

Sometimes, a conversation will start with donors because of my thank you and i get to see behind the name and gift to a real person with real interests and concerns.

Our donors widen my world when they write. For someone who is somewhat isolated by physical disabilities as i am, those emails widen my world. Sometimes their messages even end up expanded and used as posts on our blog.

Zenster said...

Pamela Geller: Truth is the new hate speech.

I first noted this years ago at GoV back with a comment in Fjordman's post about Islam's congenital humorlessness. To wit:

And this is where those who seek to criminalize free speech are—knowingly or not—acting in league with Islam.

From all appearances, PayPal has made a conscious decision to wage jihad on its largest customer base, namely, America. I think we all know what to do about that.

To try and counteract this latest bit of tragi-comedy, I'm closing with a bit of mockery:

[control voice]

There is nothing wrong with our ability to kick your whiny Islamic @ss. Do not attempt to interfere. We are controlling the situation. If we wish to kick it harder, we will go all Medieval. If we wish to kick it softer, we will only open up a six-pack on you. We will control the duration. We will control the intensity. We can roll you up; make your eyelids flutter. We can smear you into a soft blur or sharpen your pencil with a machete. For the next hour, sit quietly and we will beat on you until only your hair doesn’t hurt. We repeat: there is nothing wrong with you that a prolonged @ss-kicking can’t cure. You are about to be on the receiving end of a major smackdown. You are about to experience the shock and awe which reaches from inside our missile silos to Tehran’s city limits.

[/control voice]

(Dedicated to incorrigible GoV wiseacre Jedilson Bonfim.)

filthykafir said...

I cannot speak for others, but I would be most grateful, Dymphna, if you could work in some of those Muslim matrimonial advertisements I see on other counter-jihad web sites. They help me keep my complement of four (on any given day) filled up. I especially like the one of the chubby-cheeked sweetly smiling muslima in red. She’s not currently available, but I understand she has found connubial bliss with an intensely religious Yemeni, so I can hope she’ll be back in the market soon.

But seriously, folks… The only ads I really object to are the ones that pop up when I inadvertently roll my mouse over some well-disguised point on the screen. They’re deceitful, and they drive me crazy.

Dymphna said...

Zenster-- I like you dedication to JB...but how can you remember a comment from years ago? Sheesh. I can't remember what I wrote yesterday...

Oh..and there really are days when my hair hurts. Yeah, I know it's just the follicles being inflamed or whatever, but it really *feels* like hurting hair. Let's just give them all fibromyalgia...

Filthyk --

Seriously? She got married? How do you know?

Yeah, those are some fine ads. I think you have to contract with Google for those. And you'd only get them when you wrote certain magic words, like honor killing, Muslim, marriage...etc.

I loathe those rolling things too. We will never have them because i don't have the manual dexterity to avoid them. Yuck.

BTW, here's a story I found at History Scoper, above. It's from the Globe and Mail. Scary stuff:

Woman Converts to Islam

It's like Ayaan Hirsi Ali said, they want some religious security.

PatriotUSA said...

I quit using PP years ago. I know
too many folks and organizations
that had this happen to them
Jerry Golden of the Golden Report
had money confiscated by PP and
has yet to get it back. I have used it here on a limited basis but no more and as my account still exists, it now won't. Future donations from me will be a check or cashiers Check from
our credit Union. I have no
problem using checks and getting them to the postal service.
I REFUSE to pay any of our bills
online, period.

Anonymous said...

As a Web Designer, in addition to PayPal, the most common forms of online processing that we use for clients websites include:

Using one of these options could provide a good safe alternative to using PayPal and should allow you to accept online payments with out any hassle.

Juniper in the Desert said...

Here in UK cheques are going out of use, but are no good for overseas transactions.

We need our own secure pay system that supports the fight against islamonazism! Surely there are enough people who support this who have the brains to do this? I would donate money to help set it up!

Bobby Coggins said...

Amazon Associates worked very well for me until the State of North Carolina decided to try to collect sales taxes from Associates who lived in North Carolina [link].
I made good money (which I listed as income on my taxes) by linking to books that related to what I was blogging about.

I learned a valuable lesson, not to put most of my eggs in one basket.

You guys should do far better than I did, given your skillset, your audience, and a favorable state government toward commerce.

I am in the process of setting up a corporation in another state in order to get around the idiocy of my state government.

Whatever you do, I am sure it will be successful.

Anonymous said...

In the old days, what businesses were so efficient that anyone had the time, staff or money to waste trying to police their customers' opinions? Now that databases are collected virtually for free and can be "mined" for more information, it seems that many of these internet entrepreneurs have used their wealth to exploit opportunities only available in a capitalist culture to promote their Marxist ideals. The "nouveau riche".

I didn't know this about PayPal but for what it's worth, I will discontinue using them and will let them know why.

(Gives us another thing to consider when pondering Hewlett Packard ex-CEO Carly Fiorina and ex-E-Bay CEO Meg Whitman having just bought the GOP nominations out of their own pockets in CA last week).

Anonymous said...

By the way, when I canceled my PayPal account, I had to do it via "Sarah", an automaton who cannot handle questions or comments more complicated than "cancel my subscription". Just for giggles, here is my cancellation conversation:

You :
It has just come to my attention that PayPal is now engaging in the punitive and politically lopsided practice of canceling PayPal accounts from online news and blogging sites that it deems "hate sites". It came to my attention because one of those sites is Pamela Geller's very respected and popular "Atlas Shrugs". I am very concerned about this because it is not PayPal's business to play politics nor is it good business. And to show what a very bad idea your policy is, I want to cancel my account. I have other alternatives than to subsidize yet another Marxist online company.

Sarah - PayPal :
I'm afraid I didn't understand your question. Can you ask it more simply?

You :
Just find a real person to cancel my account and take a vacation Sarah.

Anonymous said...

If you have to host ads, just make sure that you're able to refuse inappropriate ones.

Counter-jihad sites have a disturbing tendency to attract islamic ads because the software automaton is stupid.

I can accept the inconvenience of ads, but beeing greeted by a radiant Muslima asking for a pious husband is reason enough for me to drop a site from my favorites.

Another disturbing tendency : moving ads. This is unbearable. There's no way you can read and think while being distracted by some stupid visual animation just off the page.

Cobra said...

Since nothing infuriates libs more than guns, I suggest the GunPal instead of PP: said...

If the ads are not intrusive (moving, pop up or pop down, etc.) there is not a problem for me.
About what the ads show, I have not a problem with muslimas trying to find a good hubby. We understand it is difficult for them.

Anonymous said...

I use Gpay myself.

Google it.

I canceled my PayPal account last night.

We're at War, and this is my way of helping out.


Green Infidel said...

Just a simple question from a paypal newbie - how to cancel an account with them if I've still got (a lot) of money on it? Cheers.

Anonymous said...

Oh, and speaking of censorship by Internet behemoths, it might amuse some to learn that, within French conservative blogs, Daily Motion is commonly referred to as Dhimmi Motion, for the unnerving tendency they have of removing counter-jihad videos.

Anonymous said...

You can try moneybookers. It sucks that Western Union has fairly huge fees or that would work too.

Elan-tima said...

I would also hope you can find a way around ads on your site. I find it almost unbearable trying to read articles while a muslim ad is staring me in the face. At the Brussels Journal they have them and I can only tolerate a short period of time at their site.

Just have a quarterly reminder of your financial need to wake up people like myself who don't notice the tip cup.

Dymphna said...

Lots of interesting observations...I had trouble loggin on for a while...

It's a puzzle to me the more i think about it. Lots of Counterjihad sites use PayPal. I believe America!First does, iirc.

I agree about the ads. And those rolly things are horrible. But maybe an Amazon page if I can figure out how it works and it doesn't intrude.

I've got a list so far of possible places to check out. Here are some ideas people have sent:

Google Checkout
Alert Pay
GunPal(same as GPal?)
Revolution Money Exchange
Alert Pay

I do, or did, a lot with Amazon and have never had problems. Sold my son's textbooks, bought a large variety of items over the years.

Now, not so much, but I do still get my FM medicine from there since it's cheaper than anywhere else and no shipping charges.

But I don't envision it as a replacement for PayPal so much as a page for books and additional revenue. Maybe a separate page with a button to click.

I think some of the military bloggers who were deployed used Amazon like PayPal but I could be mistaken.

In the meantime, I will simply keep the account cleared out at all times so there's no problem. PayPal will continue to be safe, though as USA.

I agree, the Gun Pal thing is intriguing. It reminds me of a video place that vlad tepes found after the Col West vids were all taken down.

I think it's called Ban Koran. It's run out of Texas and it doesn't take things down. I used it last night to repost the "We Con the World" video -- which is up at other places, too.

All of this makes me realize that some good may come out of the problems PayPal and YouTube cause. There is always another entrepreneurial soul out there, waiting to fill a niche.

Dymphna said...


I didn't see Eric's ideas:

I'll add those to the list.

Also, Robert M. you can be assured there will never be any moving ads on the page. If I see a page with those, I have to cover that part of the screen. I've heard of people having seizures induced by those darn things. They merely make me cross-eyed. Loathsome.

Damon said...

While we all get righteously indignant about PayPal, please remember us non-US contributors.
A standard bank transfer to a non-Australian account costs about AUD30, which almost doubles the cost of my standard contribution, to no effect.

Col. B. Bunny said...

Ads are fine with me, Dymphna. Also, PO Box is fine.

Dymphna said...

@ Damon--

No, banks transfers aren't the way to go for anyone. Back when they were fund raising for Ayaan Hirsi Ali, I tried to talk the attorneys handling the money part to set up a PayPal account so regular folks could contribute, but nothing ever came of it so I didn't do a fund-raising post.

I think they were just after big money donors.

I'm not sure we couldn't keep pay pal AND have an alternate. Some people said that GPal has problems... one does it as well as PayPal which is why they're #1. By "well" I mean the number of countries, the ease of transfers and withdrawals, etc.

I'm going to look at everyone of those -- plus as Thunder Pig mentioned, Amazon Associates. I think they serve lots of countries too.

However, that has to wait until the Baron is back and the blog is really up and running again instead of in its half-time mode.

BTW, PayPal rescinded their block of Atlas Shrugs but she has already moved to another service.

ZZMike said...

I just checked the "Revolution Mulsim" website. There's no PayPal button (15 Jun 2010).

However, they do seem to be a bit peeved with Obama, and there's a video with Noam Chomsky, in which he looks a lot like an aged Woody Allen. (I don't have the stamina to watch it.)

The site is worth at least one look, to read the headlines.