Monday, October 29, 2007

The Narcissism of Small Differences

From the Random House Dictionary:

anathema    n. pl. anathemas

1. a person or thing detested, loathed, or shunned.
2. a person or thing accursed or consigned to damnation or destruction.
3. a formal ecclesiastical curse involving excommunication.
4. any imprecation of divine punishment.
5. a curse; execration.

An Anti-Idiotarian no longer.

The excommunication of the Albigenses, 14th centuryIt’s a sad day here at Gates of Vienna. Sometime in the last twenty-four hours, Charles Johnson removed us from his blogroll — his list of “anti-idiotarians” — at Little Green Footballs.

I remember how thrilled Dymphna and I were when we first appeared on Charles’ blogroll. We were still a miniscule blog back then, and being blogrolled by Jihad Watch, LGF, and Wretchard made us as starry-eyed as giddy teenagers.

We’ve become somewhat jaded since those days, but it’s still a sad moment.

I’ve written quite a bit over the last few months about the tendency within the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy to pronounce anathema on one another. If you support the Iraq War, or don’t; if you use the term “moderate Muslim”, or object to it; if you describe the EU as “Eurabia”, or refrain from it: each of these is enough in certain circles to get you bound and cast into the outer darkness. The emotional rhetoric surrounding these excommunications is phenomenal, and people’s energy is sucked into reviling one another instead of fighting the common enemy.

I’m not going to address the specific content of the controversy over Vlaams Belang and Sverigedemokraterna here. We (CVF, that is) have spent the last week or so compiling substantive information, some of which has already been posted at the CVF blog (scroll down) , and other materials from the Brussels conference are available at Counterjihad Europa. Everyone will be free to look at the available information and make his or her own judgment, as I did when I was in Antwerp and Brussels.

One of the unavoidable aspects of building an action coalition is that — assuming you want to be successful, and not simply doctrinally pure — you must form operational alliances with groups or people that you don’t agree with on everything. Any successful politician, academic, or group leader has to do the same.

There is a thousand times more evidence suggesting that U.S. Senator Robert Byrd is a neo-Nazi than there is for Filip Dewinter. But I would ally myself in a heartbeat with Sen. Byrd were he — fat chance — to resolutely oppose the Great Jihad.

Robert Spencer got the largest burst of applause when concluded his after-dinner speech at the Counterjihad Summit in Brussels with these words:
- - - - - - - - -
One thing I would ask in appeal, in conclusion, is that we avoid what has been called the narcissism of small differences. There are many different ways, different strategies, that we may have, and I find altogether too often that we have this tiny group of people who are aware of the problem, and yet we’re sniping at one another — I’m not speaking of the people in this room — but sniping at one another, and tearing one another down because we don’t have exactly the same program as the other guy.

Well, there’s not time for that. And we need to set aside our own differences, and unite.

This is not the first fight that’s been picked with Gates of Vienna. People occasionally want to fight with us, but as long as they seem to be basically on the same side, we refuse to fight back. We’ll continue to link and support them, despite being reviled by them, and not expect gratitude or reciprocity. We’re in the middle of a crucial and deadly war, and expecting gratitude or reciprocity is a trivial self-indulgence.

I have great respect for Charles Johnson. He has done mighty service on behalf of the Counterjihad. He’s still on our blogroll, and will remain there; I recommend that you visit Little Green Footballs every day so that you can keep up with what’s going on.

*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *

Since the start of this kerfuffle, Charles has been banning commenters from LGF. Some of them have been coming over here to discuss what happened, and they are all welcome here. We don’t ban commenters — Blogger doesn’t give us that option, even if we wanted to — and I won’t delete any comments simply because I don’t like them, or disagree with them. As Zionist Youngster said recently:

On my own blog, ever since I first formulated my commenting rules after having my comments deleted on Daily Kos, my policy has been to never delete a comment only because I dislike its content. Feelings of offense are not a legitimate reason to delete comments or ban writers (online) and speakers (in real life). I don’t take this nonsense from anyone — from any political orientation, nationality or religion.

It’s the same at Gates of Vienna: you are entitled to express your opinion. But newcomers should know that there are rules about how you express your opinion here; comments should be civil, temperate, on-topic, and show decorum. To be more specific:

1. Civil: No name calling, gratuitous insults, personal slurs, denigration of someone’s intelligence, etc.
2. Temperate: No exhortations to commit violence or foment insurrection, etc.
3. On-topic: We generally don’t delete off-topic comments, but reserve the right to if they are excessively long. A brief OT mention of something you think we should know is perfectly fine.
4. Decorum: We are a PG-13 blog, because the parents of homeschoolers allow their older children to come over here to further their education. Please make your point without resorting to foul language or explicit descriptions.

These guidelines have encouraged comment threads that are a delight to read, even when I disagree with some of what’s said. We are blessed with intelligent and well-informed commenters, and a distinct lack of trolls.

This has been a nasty business, and I don’t intend to comment on it any further. We will, however, be discussing Vlaams Belang, Sverigedemokraterna, the BNP, and various other anti-jihad political parties in Europe. We’ll examine the available information, draw conclusions, debate with our readers, and sometimes change our minds.

But no one will be excommunicated for supporting one or another of these groups. No one gets pushed away for having a different opinion.

We’ve been expelled from Paradise. We’ll win our bread by the sweat of our brow, as we labor East of Eden against the Great Jihad.

But we’ll do it together.


Dr.D said...

Not to worry, Baron. There are far worse things in this world, many of them discussed right here, than being dropped from LGF.

carpenter said...

Charles Johnson is very hard on anti-Semitism. Nothing wrong with that, but:
Miljöpartiet has invited Hamas to the City Hall of Stockholm and a former influent member, Per Garthon, was interviewed by the notorious neo-Nazi channel "Radio Islam" in 1988. In the interview, he said that it's "possible the murder of [Swedish Socialist prime minister] Olof Palme was a Zionist conspiracy."
Centerpartiet, in the 30's named Bondeförbundet (The Farmers' Union) had a Nazi agenda in their party program.
The Social-Democrats took the Nazis' side in WW2 and exported iron ore which comprised over 40% of German weapons, censored Nazi-critic Torgny Segerstedt and took orders from Goebbels himself, so in order not to be invaded.
Vänsterpartiet ("The Left Party") shouldn't be mention at all. Their concession to Sovjet knew no bounds before 1989.
And yes, Sverigedemokraterna has had its bad apples too, who where kicked out in 2001 and instead founded Nationaldemokraterna - an anti-Semitic, openly racist and lobotomized party, which today has nothing to do with SD. SD has left that crap behind and are now focusing, immigration, Islam and assimilation instead
As a matter of fact, SD is the only pro-Israeli party in Sweden. Our present government gives 674 000 000 kronor (around $100 000 000) annually to the Palestinian authority. SD wants Sweden to cease with the aid-madness to "Palestine-"
But I guess only by being Swedish, I'm a Nazi....
Read fellow ConSwede's two posts on this! (1, 2). He explains it better than I do.

ziontruth said...

"We've been expelled from Paradise."

No need to mention that you meant that in dark humor; but I'll still reply as if you said it seriously:

Nothing of the sort. You just got on the receiving end of egomania.

The egomania of people and parties on the Right, as opposed to the feeling of duty (toward their nation or religion or civilization or whatever), is one the major causes of our inability to counter the Left/Islam alliance.

Good going, Baron, and keep it up. All of us.

Anonymous said...

the Gates of Vienna remain a daily read for me - you are the best source of information on Europe.

Charles can do as he wishes with his blog, he will remain anti-Islamofacist.

Baron, please continue your good work

locomotivebreath1901 said...

I must admit my ignorance about the subject of this kerfuffle and the names of Vlaams Belang, Sverigedemokraterna & Filip Dewinter.

I know little of Charles Johnson and even less of his blog, but I do
know that even a whiff of neo-nazism or race fascism is symbolic radioactive death in the public arena - it contaminates & afflicts all whether justified or not. McCarthyism reincarnated.

What I have read this last year at GoV convinces me that the people here are totally devoid of racism, prejudice or any desire to promote fascism. These are good people devoted to democratic principles and republican government.

But most alliances are destroyed by faction. Maybe C. Johnson has succumbed to the Narcissism of Small Differences. Good luck to him & his followers.

I say to the Baron & Dymphna, God bless & keep up the good anti-jihad work.

Fellow Peacekeeper said...

I have great respect for Charles Johnson. He has done mighty service on behalf of the Counterjihad. He’s still on our blogroll, and will remain there;

Bravo. That climate of polite restraint and old fashioned gentility is one of the things to be most appreciated about GoV.

While on the matter of VB and LGF, there's a must read article on The Brussels Journal : On Schrödinger's Cat and Joshu's Dog.

Avery Bullard said...

So the neocons have launched another purge of heretics. So what else is new? They never did stray far from their Trotskyite roots. Those of us who wish to preserve Western civilisation don't need them and their false flag operations. After all these decades of claiming to be on the right they are still leftists at heart. Besides LGF telegraphed their hatred of Europeans and their Israel First agenda a long time ago. Paul Belien's desperate attempts to show Vlaams Belang to be philo-semitic won't work as the LGFers hate nationalists from Europe at least as much as they hate Islam. I suspect Jews living in Belgium are more open-minded about Vlaams Belang than the paranoid American Euro-haters.

This is all reminiscent of Free Republic purging opponents of George Bush's radical open borders policy.

Given the much higher quality of posts here and at Brussels Journal I can't understand why you should worry about the juveniles at LGF.

Aeneas said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

It's a strange old day! I shall certainly just read your site from now on, until Charles sorts out his personal meltdown over there at LGF. Please do a post to let us know if he recovers.

Reading through his many commenters, it's clear they have FAR less than no idea whatever about how bad things are in Europe now.

For example, the planned abolition of democracy throughout the EU - you'd think the "lizardoids" would have at least noticed that! They're basically useless to anyone until they get up to speed on Europe's problems.

Aeneas said...

A truly beautiful post Baron. You are a true friend and champion of Europe and as a European I greatly appreciate your efforts. It is important that the European and American Counter Jihad efforts converge, support each other, learn from each other and promote mutual understanding. Gates of Vienna and CVF are good examples of where this co-operation is producing important practical outcomes. Gates of Vienna goes beyond merely writing about issues, it is actively engaged in them and therefore takes blogging to a whole new level.

Unknown said...

Its simply the old tradition of anything thats pro-white is bad. Everyone else can get their agenda promoted, and whites encourage and allow it to happen. Except when its themselves. Fair play gone too far, IMO.

Is that racist? Less so than most minorities, for whom sticking it to the white man for their own benefit is all that they consider. Accommodating minority racists is not an end to racism.

Unknown said...

I have LGF, GoV and Atlas Shrugs for quite some time. I like them all, but I have to say I think LGF has kind of gone off the deep end. I believe Charles Johnson has grown to like his "position" in the blogosphere more than he likes honest debate. A telling sign in who is more mature is the fact that GoV has kept LGF on their blogroll, while LGF has dropped GoV. I like to read ALL sides of an issue. I am very disappointed in LGF. Keep up your good work GoV!

USorThem said...

Many good, relevent comments on this topic should not be missed at yesterday's article "Kepiblanc Weighs In" below.

spackle said...

ZY said:
"The egomania of people and parties on the Right, as opposed to the feeling of duty (toward their nation or religion or civilization or whatever), is one the major causes of our inability to counter the Left/Islam alliance."

Right on target. While I am not all that familiar with LGF, everything that I have read in regards to this whole "Tiff" and especially comment policy leads me to believe that this can all be summed up in one word.
E-G-O and control.

I stumbled on this site quite accidentally and have been an addict ever since. Thanks Baron for adding yet another addiction to my personal roster!:) As someone who never attended college (more thankful for that everyday)and barley made it out of high school I find this site to be the equivalent to taking a college course once a day. The essays are top notch and the commenters really are the icing on the cake. While things can get heated from time to time I always appreciate the fact that all opinions are allowed the gift of sunlight. Who knows, maybe this LGF meltdown could be a blessing for GOV. One hopes.

Homophobic Horse said...

Leader of the BNP Nick Griffin was publishing anti-semtic pamplets only 10 years ago.

We can discuss the BNP but we'll only come to negative conclusions.

Steven Luotto said...

The "bubbone" is finally exploding. The NATURAL difference between America and Europe, between raw idealism and culture, between one size fits all and meaningful identity.

The American political credo/religion that refuses identity, history, race, culture, believes - and for historical reasons - CAN ONLY believe in money and the law. It is wedded to some sort of manifest destiny inspired by sideral space, vast and empy... They simply cannot understand people who don't disdain the past, the continuum, and who are attached to their ways, warts and foibles... and who despite decades of deconstruction still refuse to see themselves as merely folklore.

LGF in one of its latest says: "Houston we have a problem." That would be Houston CONTROL... Houston herself, the city, could change race, color, creed, cuisine, language, (anything with any sort of content) but just as long as the moolah kept flowing and there was a modicum of law and order... there would be NO PROBLEM. They've got Paris and Venice replicas in Las Vegas. Overthere a Gondolier can be from the Congo and doesn't have to know any love songs in Venetian dialect. It's just a job, anyway. Just money, just a have-a-nice-day job.

It's funny how they got upset over some hinky symbol. They should come to Rome and see the giant Obelisk near the stadium: it still has "Mussolini and Dux" written on it... and Rome has been governed by leftists for decades. But it was also governed by emperors and popes, Fascists and Communists and Christian Democrats... and Piedmontese. Now it can become Romanian, Albanian, Senegalese... and all the fine ideals of blank, sideral space will not object... There's nothing that can be lost out there. And if you dream of a place that's not perfect, but that despite inevitable change still resembles the place your uncle fought on the right or wrong side of the war for, you're a Nazi-Fascist... even though you prefer forgiveness to revenge, even though you wouldn't dream of dhimmifying a soul. If it's not law or money, you're out... You're an oppressor!

It's gotta fit in the box.

We can understand America, but with rare exception America cannot understand us. We're crappy little people who still believe that God is not just big and awesome but is also in the details. They have trouble understanding patriotism because for them it's about Ideals, checks and balances, the system, the opportunities and for us - some of us anyway - it's atavistic, the fragrances, dialects, the tastes, the local cities, the traditions... For them it means inevitable war, whereas someone who loves his own country, understand and respects the love that another might have for his own.

Félicie said...

"They have trouble understanding patriotism because for them it's about Ideals, checks and balances, the system, the opportunities."

Oh, I like checks and balances. This is one of the cleverest things about the American political system, I believe. As I see it, it is rooted in the Christian view of man's fundamentally evil nature. Everyone is corruptible. I truly believe it. This is why the system has to allow for structural failure and self-recovery.

As the opposite of this, we have political systems based on utopian ideologies of the perfectability of human nature. "If and when we bring up the new generation with the 'communist-builder's' mentality, we will have a working communist society," "If only we educate everyone about differences, we would have a multi-cultural Paradise."

Steven Luotto said...

Ciao Felicie,

I'm all for checks and balances too, but the system, any system does not suffice to justify patriotism anywhere else besides America (maybe Canada and Australia - immigrant nations. Nobody in Europe loves their "system"... some of us here in Italy hate all systems period. The government could fall for 3 years and the country, on culture alone would probably go on just fine.

I don't really blame Americans except for their lack of imagination for how other peoples can love their countries. A sharp guy like Johnson only sees the American dream or Nazis.

ziontruth said...


"The government could fall for 3 years and the country, on culture alone would probably go on just fine."


Israel's government has ceased functioning in many areas. The citizens fill for it with community initiatives. Which not only do the job, but do it far more efficiently than the government could ever do.

Nations first; governments legitimate only in so far as they serve their nations.

Unknown said...

Never mind, GOV will keep going strong I'm sure. Perhaps Johnson is just burnt out?, he's been running LGF for quite a few years.

Anonymous said...

In The Baron I trust.....

Dymphna said...


I think it's more complicated than you say.

As a first generation American I sometimes feel like a participant observer in the US. But that might have been my natural inclination anyway...people who write tend to have this "observing ego" that notices without let-up.

The last two World Wars damaged Europe so badly. John Derbyshire had a recent column in which he looked back on the many spinisters of his childhood in Britain. "Many" because the flower of British manhood had been obliterated and left entombed in Flanders Field.

It was the same for France and Germany, and Spain to some extent in the '30's.

World War II was wash, rinse, repeat, but with far more damage to the infrastructure of things ancient, things which could not be restored.

In addition, this time the Jewish brain drain, whether by oven or by emigration, left a vacuum in the European intellectual tradition that could not be recovered either.

America lost many men in that war, even though her shores were never breached. But she also had a net gain in her pool of brilliant scientists, especially the Ashkenazi Jews, because Hitler was discarding them and we were picking them up.

This great sea change (as Hughes called it) has had profound effects on both sides of the Atlantic. Meryl Yourish notes that Americans have done it again...American Jews, that is: Three More Jewish Nobel Prize Winners.

These were awards in the field of Economics. In fact, the percentage of American Ashkenazi Jews amongst the Nobel Prize winners in academic areas is truly astounding. Though I do think the Asian and Indian immigrants will catch up and give them a run for their money in the next generation.

The closest America ever came to bloody internecine warfare is our Civil War. Or, as some Southern ladies up until the 1940's called it, "The Recent Unpleasantness." The South's dependence on slave workers and its lack of a middle class was never overcome until the advent of air conditioning. After that, industries in the Northeast began to wither because poor Southerners were willing to work for less, and didn't believe in unions.

It was America's first experience in outsourcing.

I don't think America understands Europe very well. The closest we come is in the South, where memory dies hard.

But I disagree that Europeans somehow understand *us* -- that kind of hubris is what makes Americans turn away. Perhaps Europeans who have spent many years here, who have raised children here...they might, but even then it's sketchy knowledge at best.

When a couple marries, they bring together two families who may not have much in common. The families are bound together by their childrens' union, but that doesn't make them necessarily decipherable to one another. Which is why parents are relieved when kids marry among "their own." That's not racist or nationalist, it's simply the Law of Gravitas.

My mother said when she stepped off the boat in NYC, she felt the weight of a thousand years of ghosts drop from her shoulders...she paid a price for it in feeling alien and alone. Not understood. With her Dublin accent, Southern Americans thought she was...maybe Russian?

When I married the Baron (WASP that he is), my mother joked that it was time for something besides Irish genes in the family. That must have been hard, though: his background was British and German and French. As my mother would say "foreign."

We have lived almost three decades where we are now. And yet a few years ago, someone told me I was nothing but an "outsider." Actually, she used the word "foreign." It was all I could do to keep a straight face. Though I considered our differences serious at the time, I didn't think they were based on where I was from.

When you say of that we think of Europeans as crappy little people who still believe that God is not just big and awesome but is also in the details, I would demur.

Europeans appear to have given up on God altogether. The EU Constitution is a good example of that. So is the fact that the charming Danish people, so full of life and spirit, are required to support their state church but only five percent attend services.

Not that there aren't exceptions, but it seems to be easier to be open about one's religious faith in the US than it is in Europe. In fact, that's one of the reasons we're ridiculed -- we're so simple-minded and childish for still believing in what the more sophisticated Europeans have long since left behind.

In the 70's I reviewed Jacques Monod's book "Chance and Necssity." To me it seemed so thoroughly post-world wars thinking. In other words, he and his confreres were traumatized and could only say:

… man at last knows that he is alone in the unfeeling immensity of the universe, out of which he emerged only by chance. Neither his destiny nor his duty have been written down. The kingdom above or the darkness below: it is for him to choose.

Many American academics and literati buy that viewpoint. But a majority of the rest of us don't.

That is the dividing line, not America's failure to understand Europe...on that subject we and Europeans are equally in the dark. We don't even know what we don't know.

That is how cultures *are.*

BTW, I don't really believe in the concept of "Europeans." I see Italians, Brits, Danish, Swedish, Spanish, etc. "European" is an EUSSR concept. Even within each country, there are vast differences: the gap between Northern and Southern Italians, between London and Yorkshire, etc. We are all people of a particular place and it is from there that we derive our identity.

On that subject, I suggest Paul Belien's book on Belgium.

Nyog of the Bog said...

To those excellent words which have anticipated my own thought better than I could have hoped to have thought them, I can only add that, Charles Johnson does not speak for, nor can he represent the totality of American experience.

Baron Bodissey said...

Homophobic --

Leader of the BNP Nick Griffin was publishing anti-semtic pamplets only 10 years ago.

I know about the BNP. I don't support them (thought I might if they reform themselves as Sverigedemokraterna have done).

But we can discuss them, and their supporters can come here and talk, and if they obey the rules listed above, I won't delete their comments.

Let 1,000 flowers bloom!

Homophobic Horse said...

Well, all I can say is that there has been many Americas, and many Europe's. Also Western values (i.e. Europe and America) as they currently stand are not superior or more evolved than those of anyone else.

No. The West as it stands today is a very new and modern. It is modern like Damien Hirsts pickled farm animals. Speaking of which do you know that those sculptures are decaying? They are decaying in a most unpleasant way. The protein strands are de-polymerising and clouding the preservative. The decay marks the entry of reality into the design. Time, it seems, is forever - and will take us all.

Nietzsche said: I love thee, oh eternity. (I'll come back to this)

"Avery Bullard" is getting awfully close to the truth when he criticises the New Conservatives Trotskyist roots. (He then goes on to soil himself with anti-Semitic guff, but that's another matter) George Bush believes that "Freedom is Gods gift to the world" with America as the world arbiter of the freedom. In this regard it resembles Georg Hegel's idea of the world spirit of freedom progressively actualising itself in the state. Historicism - derived from Dialectical Materialism, which was itself derived by Marx from Hegel - has always been the calling card of Marxism. And it seems these New Conservatives have never quite abandoned it.

Condoleeza Rice for example said on the violence afflicting Iraq that "America had a long road to democracy as well". This is extremely telling.

If what I'm about to say doesn't make your head spin then I don't know what will:

Rice believes that America is manipulating and riding Socio-Historical forces to create an advanced higher state in Iraq. With force, if required, but for a higher aim ultimately. In this regard it strongly resembles.. Bolshevism.

And now the Americans can't leave Iraq. The Americans can't leave Iraq because it would scuttle their dreams of a united humanity under America, a dream shared by the UN, a dream first advanced and promulgated by.. The Communist Party.

Now you may think that's impossible because leftists are generally the ones who have opposed that war so much. But consider how they oppose it. They don't oppose 'freedom' and 'democracy' (of course not..), they simply say that Bush is a liar who is using those noble words to cover his evil zionist oil crusade.

Isn't a desire for a single unified humanity shared by almost all people? Don't we all want peace and love? Tolerance and diversity. Prosperity and freedom? Frankly the Iraq War was caused by ideas that a great many people already share and agree with. After all, how could anyone possibly object to those ideas?

The Americans thought that would not require a contingency plan after the fall of Baghdad? They thought they would be greeted with flowers as liberators. They think they are all things to all people. America is the rainbow nation. Gods country.

So how did we get here? Hegel thought that freedom was progressively expressed more accurately through the states throughout history. Marx was accurate when he attributed it to class struggle. Nobody wants to be a slave - a slave will demand freedom. There can not be only one Pharaoh and one soul, everyone must be a Pharaoh and everyone must have a soul.

The masses throughout history have demanded what they cannot have and when they have looted it they dirty it and dilute its value.

The causes of our problems today are socialism and humanism in their myriad forms. They are pernicious ideologies. They grow naturally from the dumb mass of humanity.

I am opposed to humanity. I despise the lovers of humanity. I loathe the mindless pageant of the world that our indulgent elites have committed themselves to (Multiculturalism).

Which brings me back to Nietzsche's declaration "I love thee, oh eternity".

It is interesting to consider the case of Nietzsche in relation to that of Christ. In both cases, it is supposed that the central feature of their thought was an injunction to human interaction. In the case of Christ, it is thought we are being enjoined to get on nicely with their friends and relations and other people in general. In the case of Nietzsche it is thought we are being enjoined to wear jackboots and torture the slaves before breakfast.

In actual fact, it is tolerably clear that both of them were extremely interested in something quite other than human beings.

Christ was no lover of humanity, his narrow gate to the kingdom of heaven is most un-diverse and UNDEMOCRATIC.

The most distinctive expression of Nietzsche's thought is contained in Thus Spake Zarathustra, and in the first few pages of it at that.

"Behold! I show you the Last Man."

The last man is a multiculturalist and a hedonist ("Look at the vibrant diversity, it titillates my senses with its fragrant foreignness.") And he no longer seeks to discriminate, i.e. decide what is good or bad. It's too much of a burden.

When you're standing in a rainbow circle holding hands and singing songs there's no need for eternity and infinity, you can spend all your time staring at other people.

Fortunately, eternity is forever, and will take us all. Time will weather all things.

Homophobic Horse said...

Oh and my name is supposed to be "Homophobic Horse" I tried to change this but it wont let me.

OMMAG said...

Could it be that Johnson has jumped his figurative shark?

Anonymous said...

I have been a long-time occasional LGF reader and infrequent poster. I'd post dhimmi quotes from President Bush "Islam is Peace, etc.) and try to steer readers to more intelligent web sites like this one and JihadWatch. Usually to no avail. 90 percent of the comments there are made by 10 percent of the posters. When several posters started spelling Flemish as "Phelgmish", I knew something was really wrong.

All these blogs, all against Charles Johnson... Reminds me of Captain Queeg in "The Caine Mutiny":

Ahh, but the strawberries that's... that's where I had them. They laughed at me and made jokes but I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt and with... geometric logic...."

rickl said...

OMMAG said...
Could it be that Johnson has jumped his figurative shark?

Yes, I believe he has. That whole place is coming unglued right before our eyes.

The Baron said:
Since the start of this kerfuffle, Charles has been banning commenters from LGF.

Wrong. He's been banning people like crazy for over a year now, and it's even accelerating. The "old guard" at LGF is simply gone.

I wasn't banned myself; I just quit back in May. (My reason for quitting is not related to this discussion so I won't go into it here.) Now and then I'll check in to that site and I barely recognize it any more.

Félicie said...

"Christ was no lover of humanity, his narrow gate to the kingdom of heaven is most un-diverse and UNDEMOCRATIC."

I don't really understand this, I must say. Sure, "few are chosen." In this sense, salvation is undemocratic. But isn't a Christian distinguished by his love for other people? What does it mean to be a Christian? It is not really compatible with being a misanthrope - isn't it so?

In general, I'm struggling with finding ways to reconcile Christianity and nationalism. I'm pro Christianity and pro nationalism. Are these ideas really compatible? Forgive me all for sounding naive on this sophisticated forum.

Profitsbeard said...

I don't understand the need for "banning" commenters, unless they are clearly foul-mouthed jerks, pernicious trolls, or crude fascist-wannabes.

Hot Air has gone through something similar, lately, as well.

Which is curious, considering the "notorious" book Michelle Malkin wrote that supported FDR's internment of the American Japanese during WW II, which has garnered her "kook" and "racist and "bigot" and "fascist" status in many uber-leftist minds.

Internment is good for the goose but not those who gander?

We need ferment to fight the Jihad.

You take out too much intellectual effervescence, you end up with the blog equivalent of flat champagne.

As Norman Mailer put it: "You need the sensibility of an angel and the backside of an alligator" to handle the challenge of being challenged.

Glib bannings seem too thin-skinned.

I hope LGF's Charles and HotAir's Allahpundit, etc. remember that the answer to contrarian free speech is more free speech.

And let the issue it be reasoned out.

Not kicked out.

Conservative Swede said...

I'm struggling with finding ways to reconcile Christianity and nationalism. I'm pro Christianity and pro nationalism. Are these ideas really compatible?

I's say that this depends on the country. Move to an Orthodox country and you'll find no conflict.

Ypp said...

With due respect for his effort, Chirles Johnson is a pathetic bore. The paradox is however that people like him are rather popular. Because, you know, if not for the crazy left, we would be just fine. Punish a couple of bad guys and return to our peaceful shopping.

maxxdog said...

Seems to me groups and individuals change all the time. Sometimes for the good and sometimes for the bad. All one has to do to see proof of this is to look at the Democratic party. It's not good there are splits like this but maybe something good will come of it.

rickl said...

I'm happy to say that not only is this post being discussed at Gulf Coast Pundit, but Gates of Vienna has now been added to that blogroll.

I've been hanging out there lately. There are many ex-LGFers there, and some jokingly refer to themselves as the "Banned of Brothers."

Maybe GCP could be added to GoV's blogroll? I mention it because I've been advocating that GoV be added to GCP's bogroll, and now it has been. I don't know whether that was through my efforts or not, though. I don't have a lot of clout there.

Baron Bodissey said...

rickl --

I'm familiar with our friends at Gulf Coast Pundit (the site meter tells all!) and would be honored to add GCP to the blogroll.

It will go in at the next template update -- sometime in the next few days.

Don M said...

Congrats on being rated a very information dense blog. I regret t the falling out between GoV and LGF. I think it is partly due to the recent similar falling out between LGF and Atlas Shrugged over similar differences.

I myself spend 4 years in Germany, but never managed to understand enough about the various German parties to figure out who I would have recommended. German parties like other countries' parties change their party platforms every election cycle. Circumstances change and successful parties change with the times, both as a clever marketing ploy, and as they learn new approaches. It is very hard from the outside to discern which is which.

Oscar in Kansas said...

Many of the prominent corporate blogs are far more concerned with towing the partisan line and flattering their political masters than they are with addressing important issues of the war against jihadism. And there's some ego-mania and self-importance involved also.

These free-trade worshiping libertarian atheists disguise themselves as “conservatives” but what exactly are they conserving? The invaluable and irreplaceable traditions and institutions of local communities? The priceless, myriad folkways of indigenous people? No. Those blogs that equate conservatism with the Republican party offer only the right to be consumers and nothing more; the freedom to be colonized; the right to become objects of global corporations; the freedom to indulge in a limitless choice of corruptions; the right to sit politely while obscenities and foreign abominations erode civil society. Thanks, but no.

If this is what passes for conservative then count me out.

We have lost much already and have to work to preserve what is left of our inheritance. And if that means we are impolite or even insulting, so be it.

Jihadism gains strength with each passing day. Jihad is creating facts on the ground while we waste our time on witch hunts and purges of those who are judged unworthy. Time is short.

Jason Pappas said...

I remember when Pim Fortuyn was alive and being vilified in the American press. There was a scarcity of reliable information here in the USA but the idea that an openly gay Prof could be a Nazi/fascist/racist SOB seemed absurd. Still I wish I had more information to mount a rousing defense. I didn’t have a blog at the time but I was posting in other venues.

After that I’ve become highly suspect of reports on European affairs. I realize that there’s a struggle within each European nation just as there is within America. It is a few brave individuals in every case that will make the difference. Like Pim! Like Ayaan!

Keep the news coming. Europe, like Israel, is on the frontline of this battle.

atheling2 said...

I'm sorry, this is long, but...

Lot of words and assumptions being thrown around here regarding Americans and Europeans. (And I know, Dymphna, you don’t believe that a “European” exists, but if a German, a Frenchman, a Briton and a Spaniard were in, say, the Congo among only the natives, they would associate because they have more common ground among themselves than with the natives there). Perhaps the only thing that held Europe together was the fact that they used to be Christian. Europe, after all, was once called “Christendom”. Now that Europe is no longer Christian, it seems that some concept called the “European Union” has taken its place. “By God, you WILL be European, or else!!!” It sure has created problems because it FORCES people to be or do things that they may not wish for.

Anyway, I am an American - a hybrid so to speak. I’m half white and half Asian. My father’s side of the family came to America in 1640. My mother came here after marrying my Dad as a war bride from Korea in the early 1960’s. We kids were given American names, spoke English only, celebrated holidays as Christians (as both my parents converted to Catholicism), socialized with mainly whites, and were raised to be patriotic Americans. Sure, we still ate some Korean food (love that rice and kimchi!), and my mother imposed strict rules on us girls regarding our moral conduct. I was the only teen in my class who had a 10:00 curfew on Friday and Saturday nights. When I tried to buck the system, my mother sternly said, “There is nothing good that a girl could possibly be up to when she stays out late at night!” We were also taught to respect adults, and to honor our family. To this day, I still have an ingrained sense of deference to the elderly. That’s about it regarding my Asian side. As I grew older and became better educated, I saw how corrupt Asian governments are, how there was little or no sense for the sanctity of human life or dignity (human trafficking is appalling in Asia), and how badly women were generally treated in non-Westernized Asian countries. My mother used to tell us that white men made the best husbands. Isn’t that racial discrimination? J I’m not ashamed of being half Asian, but I am very thankful that I am an American and that I live here, not in Asia.

Growing up in the tumultuous 60’s, there was still widespread racism in America. I used to be called “Jap” or “Chink” every day and it upset me a lot, mostly because I was neither Chinese nor Japanese. Some kids made fun of the different foods we ate or the way we looked. I didn’t like being socially excluded from the other kids, though I eventually learned to ignore their taunts. Children are very cruel by nature, and I don’t think it’s necessarily “taught”. I think that, like animals, we do have a sense of wanting to associate with what’s familiar or alike. Needless to say, I grew up with an acute sense of what it’s like to be on the receiving end of prejudice and isolation. I don’t think I carry a lot of resentment regarding the past; I feel quite philosophical about it. I think racism is part of human nature, although not necessarily a good part.

America has changed a great deal in the past 40 years. I can say that for the last 20 years, I have never experienced racial prejudice or bigotry from anyone in my homeland. Indeed, I am so fully integrated, that sometimes I forget that I look a little different than my peers.

So when I read ioshkafutz’s comment:

“The American political credo/religion that refuses identity, history, race, culture, believes - and for historical reasons - CAN ONLY believe in money and the law. It is wedded to some sort of manifest destiny inspired by sideral space, vast and empy... They simply cannot understand people who don't disdain the past, the continuum, and who are attached to their ways, warts and foibles... and who despite decades of deconstruction still refuse to see themselves as merely folklore..”

I have to respond and say: You couldn’t be more wrong.

You see, as GK Chesterton put it, “America is the only nation founded on a creed”. That creed is not about money or law, ioshkafutz. It’s about the inherent dignity of each individual human being which transcends skin color, language, customs, history, etc.. And each person has “unalienable rights” which cannot be trampled upon by any earthly power or authority. The United States Government has to bow to the rights of even the lowest laborer in this land.

That’s revolutionary. And that’s what makes me love my country. True, we have our many problems here. We violate those rights all the time. Currently the argument about abortion rages on, and perhaps it always will. But those weaknesses are a result of human frailty, not of flaws in the democratic principles our Founding Fathers set forth in this land. I know of no greater form of democracy than this Federal Republic in which I live. It helps that the land itself is beautiful and varied, from the gentle, rolling green hills of northeastern Pennsylvania to the rugged shoreline of Big Sur, California; we are truly rich in resources.

I’m beginning to see that this is the main difference between Europeans and Americans. While individual Europeans, like the French or the Italians may base their identity on their language, customs, food, smells, or however you want to put it, Americans’ identities are based on a PRINCIPLE. That’s why racism cannot work in America. All Americans, whether black or white, rich or poor, smart or dumb, are subject to those lofty principles of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

ΛΕΟΝΙΔΑΣ said...

Apparently this humble Spartan has also been banned from LGF. Although duly registered and never having commented there the sign in displays"Authentication Failure" Can it be that I have occasionally posted here? Trotsky indeed!

Unknown said...

Since this question gets ignored at lgf by everybody I thought I'd give it a shot here.

Will dewinter provide a close up, high quality, readable image of the statue thingy on his shelf?
(first video)

Will he provide information about where it came from and what it means to him?



Unknown said...

Hi Felicie,

Perhaps spend some time with Romans 13
Look at translations and maybe ask someone you know who is good with the translations

Anonymous said...

You will find Gulf Coast Pundit to be LGF's LGF. Bush as The Father, Iraqi not Jeffersonian only because of media lies, etc. Many ex-military enlisted re-living Vietnam (the U.S. won), loud, cursing, clicqueish to an extreme.

PRCalDude said...

"I understood the infamous spiritual terror which this movement exerts, particularly on the bourgeoisie, which is neither morally nor mentally equal to such attacks; at a given sign it unleashes a veritable barrage of lies and slanders against whatever adversary seems most dangerous, until the nerves of the attacked persons break down and, just to have peace again, they sacrifice the hated individual(s). However, the fools obtain no peace. The game begins again and is repeated over and over until fear of the mad dog results in suggestive paralysis.........Conversely, they praise every weakling on the opposing side, sometimes cautiously, sometimes loudly, depending on the real or supposed quality of his intelligence".

- Adolph Hitler, from Mein Kampf, on the 'spiritual terror' tactics employed by his Nazi movement.

The neocons so easily cave into the Muslims' tactics that they'll turn on their own just to preserve themselves. It's not the moral high ground their after, it's the preservation of their own skins. It's cowardice.

PRCalDude said...

Nations first; governments legitimate only in so far as they serve their nations.
A hearty amen to that. Our government here in the US has failed its most basic Romans 13 duties. The rulers will be judged for their rule, and ours have much to answer for.

Kafir Canada said...

On writing against Islamic Supremacy, against the Great Jihad as you call it. This does not depend on who you are or what else you are saying. It's about coming to an understanding on the one issue through a dialogue which takes many forms. Charles Johnson has his reasons for dropping you but this won't affect the dialog except to perhaps slow it down. It does not stop it. The reason behind opposing the destruction of the West is all still there and we are reminded of it every time we meditate on the issues raised.

Forget any divisions like these, as they are not divisions essential to the debate at hand. And I wouldn't bear any ill will to Charles -- far from it -- and I hope no one else would either; he does more than his fair share in opposing "the Great Jihad." And that's what I'm trying to say is what really matters.

Homophobic Horse said...

America is based on the principles of life, liberty, and persuit of happiness then the IRAQ WAR is a logical extension of these. After all, we can't have dictators holding people to ransom with WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION can we??!?!?!?

To object to the Iraq war is to object to CIVILISATION ITSELF.

You see, Bush represents the Bolshevik arm of Americanism. Everyone leftwards is in todays situation a Menshevik - they agree with the aims but disagree with the use of force - and they are waiting for the LAWS OF HISTORY to do their work.

Steven Luotto said...

Ciao Signora Dymphna,

Thank you for your long and beautiful response.

You start off saying: "I think it's more complicated than you say."

Yes of course... and I don't blame the Americans for Europe's predicament, I only blame them for being blind to our solutions. Johnson of LGF is an all-American boy... and America is on a mission. She's the only culture in the world that still feels it can teach people proper values. There is zeal.

I couldn't teach you to become an Italian, but you could teach me how to become an American. It's learnable. There are just a few simple rules. This is both fantastically grand and utterly miserable.

It's as if Americans had a discount on the original sin. But never mind.

You go on about the Jewish brain drain and though of course I'm sure it must've had an effect (not even considering that a great many of those Jewish brains were also terrifically destructive), the problem is not one of intelligence. Even without Jews or fewer of them (not even considering that Belgian goys can read the books of brilliant Nobel-winning Jews residing in Ohio), the problem remains. We're not too stupid, we're too smart for our own good.

Need an example? It made Italian news that Mike Oldfield split the UK, declaring it was unliveable, an oppressive nanny state. What surprised me is that all of the private comments to the original Daily Mail article agreed with him. "Way to go Mike! I'll soon be joining you in Spain!"

Now that got me thinking. The UK is a cultural and economic powerhouse. It has all the right, hip and trendy ideas. You can marry a tree, transvestities can adopt lesbian babies (so to speak). Femminism, gay rights, health care, sex, drugs, rock 'n' roll, anti-hate crimes, ecology galore, religion reduced to something for old dowagers with flabby arms and purple hair. They're tops. All the great intelligent and rational things modern man is capable of... It should've been at least three giant steps towards Shangrilà, but instead they're leaving in droves to Spain and Portugal... as in bullfights, "loco en la cabeza," Madonnas carried around in processions. Despite Zapatero's best/worst efforts, they are going to a Catholic nuthouse. BTW, I'm a Catholic.

No doubt even some superior Jews have noticed that they too can become too smart for their own good!

I think that America's biggest trauma was not the civil war, but the depression. But that's for another day. And anyway America, being wedded to the future, she puts her traumas more easily behind her.

You say:

But I disagree that Europeans somehow understand *us* -- that kind of hubris is what makes Americans turn away. Perhaps Europeans who have spent many years here, who have raised children here...they might, but even then it's sketchy knowledge at best.

If you're talking about the South, where something akin to culture is extant, I can agree. But all it takes to be an American is Law and Money. This is not putting down America. How could it be different with such a glorious mish-mash of enterprising people escaping poverty, hoping for nothing better than to get rich and become respectable? Becoming a Canadian is even easier.

Your mamma felt that weight dropping off her shoulders... (so did all four of my grandparents.) Money considerations aside, she probably would have had an easier time of it in Italy, which at least would have offered alternative / parallel old ways as opposed to the alienation of everything and nothing combined. They would have called her "Irlanda"... and she'd have always been a foreigner, but a special foreigner and not an "alien" in a sea of many aliens. I bet you that even some old-time Jews, stuck in their ways, missed some of their Polish persecutors. You call it "weight"... not all of it was lead, some was gold. Some of it.

Of course America is run on high principles. Where else can you get 5 million bucks for burning your lips with exaggeratedly hot coffee? That's a magnficent principle... No one (whether Greek, Korean, or Armenian) should ever have to burn their lips. When lovely Giorgia oversteamed my capuccino, I got a giggle and she got a couple of comments that would've had me arrested for harrassment in the land of the brave and of the free.

Now I'm being snarky, because it's late. But here you see an example of God being in the details and not in the high principles.

When you say of that we think of Europeans as crappy little people who still believe that God is not just big and awesome but is also in the details, I would demur.

Yes, your answer is correct, but I was speaking metaphorically and not really about God the father up in heaven. Americans have Starbucks. Chances are your local café runs nationwide commercials. Once at the Free Republic forum, I witnessed a debate about who makes the best pizza. It all boiled down to a competition among four or five franchises, each worth billions of dollars and quoted on the stock exchange. Big and awesome coffees, big and awesome pizzas, but no God (unique personal touches) in the details. Big and awesome ideals, but man and community disappearing from the equation. This is not the mentality that can understand why the Slovaks wanted to separate from the Czechs, or the Phlegms (sic) would rather not stick around with the Walloons... It is instead the great big "broadness" that has no trouble seeing Turkey in the EU. Why not? They have a promising economy? Okay, so they killed a few Greeks and Armenians, what's the fuss? It's a new Papa John's pizza with pickles, pineapples, and pistachioes... Though newly invented they'll call it "Classic Anatolia"... In America it'll sell. 'Cause America is run on high principles. Greeks, Turks and Armenians seem to be getting along fine THERE, so they oughta shoulds get along fine even HERE. There's no way you can rationally fight the big, nasty pizza.

You can peck at the sides, reminding freedom-loving Americans that they did what not even Stalin dared to do: for a great many years they made sipping Bordeaux and Riesling a crime.

Anyway, I see that athelinga is pissed off at me. America the greatest nation on earth spiel is going full force. Forgive me, but I don't want to live in the greatest nation on earth. It's okay if my country comes in 22nd and still has some rough edges with the Austrians. I want a society, a community, my own music, unfranchised cafes and restaurants, a local temperament, even a regional one if possible. Rationally, I can't defend any of this. If 30,000 Romanian Gypsies moved into my neighborhood, heaven help me if I got upset! Out there in the vast expanses of sideral space where great principles are created and enjoyed... heaven help me if I dared to say "boo"... There's nothing more strict than freedom.

Subvet said...

Keep on keeping on, Baron.

PRCalDude said...

Hot Air has gone through something similar, lately, as well.

Which is curious, considering the "notorious" book Michelle Malkin wrote that supported FDR's internment of the American Japanese during WW II, which has garnered her "kook" and "racist and "bigot" and "fascist" status in many uber-leftist minds.

Having just been banned from the same, along with Thomas the Wraith on the same thread, for mildly suggesting that the BNP had cleaned up its anti-semitism, I also thought it ironic that the site is owned by the woman who wrote "In Defense of Internment."

I had been posting on there for a couple of years. No loyalty whatsoever from the neo-con crowd.

Allahpundit made this comment in response to Thomas' point that many of the working class British were voting for the BNP now:
Well if we are going to condemn the BNP then we’ll have to write off a substantial section of the British population.

Good. Consider them written off. Griffin is backing away from his Holocaust remarks because he’s trying to appear more “mainstream” to capture voters disaffected by Islamists. It’s political calculation, nothing more. If you or anyone else want to apologize for a filthy party like the BNP — and please do see zane’s blockquote up here — then do so elsewhere.

Allahpundit on October 27, 2007 at 10:55 PM>

Then later on banned us with this comment:
I refer everyone once again to zane’s link of Griffin’s remarks up above. Note the bigoted lie about how it’s only Muslims who gang rape, note the racialist/separatist model of communities. Do you guys really not recognize this rhetoric when you see it?

Allahpundit on October 28, 2007 at 11:18 AM

I'm sure Fjordman et al would be surprised to here that the Muslim gang rapes in Sweden, France, and elsewhere in Europe not the overwhelming majority.

Arrogance beyond belief.

Kafir Canada said...

Another thing I'll add.

This overall could be good for counterjihad. The effect of this it that LGF and that side of things is made more mainstream, though your side of things is made to look extreme. This is just good-cop/bad-cop. This technique works. LGF's platform of counterjihad can gain wider acceptance because of this. Sucks for you, but what really matters? Pride can take a back-seat. Though everyone needs companions. For that, just keep in mind those who understand still respect you. And who's accolades really matter to you? Hoi polloi or hoi oligoi?

atheling2 said...


Goodness, you really are a bitter person...

You need to sublimate that anger... ever read Oriana?

Michael Travis said...

Don't fret Baron & Co., LGF has always represented a particular [American] political party and has usually towed the "Party line". If the Whitehouse or Rush have not deemed a subject worthy of comment, then neither will LGF.

Rathergate, and the "Qana massacre" photoshops remain a powerful and lasting legacy for Little Green Footballs....but in the main, the site is merely a rowdy, irreverent (hilarious actually) commentary viewed while very drunk.

Gates of Vienna is a sober, sobering site, well written and enlightening.

Zonka said...

I have been reading LGF for years now, because of the news that was presented there, but only rarely gone into the comment section, and everytime I did, I wondered why I bothered. Most of the comments are immature and unintelligent and the few sensible comments there always drowned in the sea...

So don't look at this as a loss, but an opportunity to continue to be the sane and intelligent medium for discussing counter-jihad without the "Let's make the Middle-East into a parking lot" memes, but instead find intelligent and workable ways of countering the creeping Islamification of our societies.

And as for the notion of an European identity, that is utterly folly, there is many European identities at least as many as there are European countries, and the difference between them can be substantial, and sometimes greater than the divide between some European identity and American identities. As a Dane I can more readily identify myself with Americans than say Frenchmen, and I certainly know more about say Texans ways than I do Portugese ways.

But still there are things in Western civilization that binds us together and makes us all closer to each other, than to other civilizations. We have a shared moral and cultural heritage from our judeo-christian culture, whether or not we are actually Christians or not. So on the whole most of us agree on the fundamental issues.

So our goal is not to find the issues that we disagree on, there's plenty of them, but the ones that we agree upon and there's even more of those. As well as recognizing that with the cultural/ideological assault that is taking place on us all, none of us will be able to resist unless we coorporate.

Finally as for the issue of working together with groups with either a tainted background (whether warranted or not) -- In this battle I'm willing to work with whoever that wants to battle totalitarian systems from a platform of democracy, free speech and other liberty rights, and let their actions and deeds in this battle be the decisive factor of whether they are to be trusted or not. Not something that they did or didn't do decades ago. If this was the case I would be disqualified myself, having been a socialist in my youth.

Thing is that we all change, we grow up and hopefully get wiser and learn from our mistakes.

Sorry for this long post...

Fidothedog said...

Shame that they can not see that the common enemys of freedom - the left & the moslems also do not allow free speech.

ziontruth said...

Above all, friends, Europeans, Americans, Israelis, any others in this war: It is good to resist the temptation to gloat each at the other. Chickens strung together in the cooking-pot aren't going to save themselves by pecking at each other.

You don't need to tell me I've indulged in my own share of gloating, especially at Europe and Europeans. I say: it's because I did that and see how unproductive it is that I now can call for refraining from it.

God bless.

Jason Pappas said...

Yes, yes, of course, there is difficulty understanding each other, with Americans and Europeans both having this problem. However, I find we Americans have a great difficulty understanding America. I’ve always taken pride in my study of history but the more I read the more I realize that Americans don’t understand what our country is about. We have a great many misconceptions of our founding.

We were once a nation of self-reliance, independent, and proud people. I still see remnants of that core character but there is much confusion about what such a sturdy disposition entails. We are a very empirical people who once mined history to learn what made republican virtues lasting. We were firm in principle but not without reason. We were willing to grow and we’ve invited others into our land but we expected them to assimilate and share our values.

These values are still there waiting to be revived. Of course, I think we on the right understand these virtues better but that’s holding the bar very low. The left has succeeded in distorting and damning our great history. They’ve become almost a self-loathing as the European elites. It takes time and effort to expose these misconceptions. The fight is first and foremost within our own culture.

Darrin Hodges said...

Good. Consider them written off. Griffin is backing away from his Holocaust remarks because he’s trying to appear more “mainstream” to capture voters disaffected by Islamists. It’s political calculation, nothing more. If you or anyone else want to apologize for a filthy party like the BNP

Those comments are not only disgraceful, they display great ignorance. Nick and his team have worked quite hard at eradicating the extremist element from BNP, I know how hard it is, I've just been through a similar exercise in Australia.

The reason the working class are voting for the BNP is precisely because the mainstream parties have written the ordinary people off. The BNP is doing what the major parties are incapable of doing - listening to the concerns of the ordinary people and acting upon them - if that is poltical calculation then buy me a calculator.

I wonder if those sites haven't come under pressure from somewhere?, will be interesting to see the tone of their posts going into the future.

Unknown said...

atheling2 - Excellent post. Good work!

Morgenholz said...

PRCalDude banned?! While I do not know you, Dude, I've seen your comments all over the place, and have always noted them to be sober and sensible, (when not slightly irreverent.;-) If they're banning you, they're off the deep end. Of course, I was booted from LGF, and always considered myself the same. I see that I'm in good company.

ziontruth said...


On those occasions that President Bush displayed abject dhimmitude, Charles would invariably run a thread concluding with the words, "Bush has lost the plot".

He was right, and that phrase is apt, but now it goes back to haunt him. His obsession with "washing his hands off the Nazis", with currying favor with public opinion, which we all know is PC-dominated and therefore impossible to please except by full conversion to the other side (hmmm, reminds me of Islam), can only garner the following verdict: Charles has lost the plot.

Check out the latest from Vanishing American: 'Courage is the antidote'.

God bless.

Homophobic Horse said...

I like ZionistYoungster and I very much want to believe that above comment. It is reassuring that ZionistYoungster is still with us.

"that many of the working class British were voting for the BNP now"

This is just a pernicious lie. People know the BNP is a bovine party, and they associate the bovine members of the working class with this party naturally.

Most of the working class, when they can be bothered to vote, are still overwhelmingly voting for labour. Perhaps out of habit.

Remember the movement is still small and underexposed. I could talk to some blokes in the pub about SIOE and they would have no idea what the hell I'm talking about.

It's entirely possible that when the next political seismic shock comes the vast majority of the WORKING CLASS will rally around a leftist movement and idea.

Kafir_Kelbeh said...

After witnessing Allahpundit's banning of Thomas the Wraith, PRCalDude, and jihadwatcher on Hotair, I made the decision not to return.

I know there are times we feel anger, rage, frustration...and express them in words we wish we'd put together better, I did NOT see what AP claims to have seen. They supported the anti-jihadist message of the BNP only. I saw NO support by the above-mentioned posters for racism or any other horrible ideal.

Given AP's over-reaction, I felt obligated to support those who are being silenced...and are obviously hypocritical to boot.

(guys - i'm also miss_anthrope)

A Knight of St. Michael said...

It is easy to sense your angst regarding the disunity of the parties that should be putting up a united front. Reminds me of a banner I used to see in my church some time ago regarding how to achieve unity in diversity and it said this:

In essentials - unity
In non essentials - liberty
In all things - charity

Seems we need to unify on the essentials and let the non essential slide but at the end of the day, do it all out of love for one another.

Kafir_Kelbeh said...

I meant AP, not the posters, as hypocritical...sorry!

magnus said...

carpenter (10/29/2007 2:14): Good information! There's a lot of anti-semitic stuffs going on in the political left too. One thing you didn't mention is that the Swedish left party in Sweden had a leader in the 1930th, Nils Flygt, who then started a nazi party in Sweden. Also the left party was pro Hitler in the Hitler-Churchill conflict (now the morons say Lenin was better than Churchill).

This is no excuse for some anti-Semitic, and also Nazi-influences, in the mainly immigrant critical Sverigedemokraterna during its first 5-10 years. But that influence never made them a Nazi party! The last 5-10 years they have also actively kicked out politicians (and active members?) with any Nazi connection, what ever it is, and also a large amount of new members (and politicians) in the hugely growing party Sverigedemokraterna in the party are ordinary people; roughly between 10 and 25 percent of he people in the southern cities vote for them, and in some cities the other non-socialists parties say Sverigedemokraterna is an important party to cooperate with. Many politicians are former politicians in non-socialist parties as Moderaterna (once the "right party") and Kristdemokraterna.

I don't think Sverigedemokraterna was even close to what BNP is today 10 years ago. Since a party split (I think year 2000/2001) anti-semitic former SD members started a party (ND) which now isn't big. That's a heritage SD has, but former ND members are excluded from membership in SD.

The SD success I think is a natural -- and in a democracy point of view sound -- response to the lack of immigration critics in all other parties.

I didn't like any immigration critical politics until about year 2000/2001, and certainly not Sverigedemokraterna. Kind of fascist connections in the 90th was well known. Since then I have come to realize the need of immigration critical politics. Unlike many other countries there is only one immigration critical party in Sweden, which is Sverigedemokraterna.

Also critical points of views regarding Swedish immigration politics are more than ever stigmatized by "the political climate"; by other parties. So even if Sverigedemokraterna -- a now pro-Israel, pro-Christian and very genuine democratic party -- isn't perfect, it's anyway a fresh alternative in a dangerous situation of not only cultural but slow political change towards adaptation of Islam.

I think it's naive by LGF to reject Sverigedemokraterna (SD) on the basis of information from the "anti racist organization" Expo (which of course can show more than 10 years old pictures on Nazi friendly persons in SD - although already then expelled from the party). BTW I’m anti-racist, but Expo has also been influenced by socialist ideology. E.g. recently they invited an extreme left violent movement, Anti Fascist Front (AFA), to contribute with a part of an Expo-book. They also never confront the racist left or radical Islam.

Expo just a few days ago called any anti-Jihad blog a racist blog which boost the political violence; LGF included i suppose... (on TV4; see TV4-link)

I think it's good if Sverigedemokraterna are monitored regarding fascist connections (which they certainly are, by Expo and others), but there is no point in accuse them of things which in fact is history now. I'm sure Sverigedemokraterna themselves agree on this.

The accusation of Sverigedemokraterna is, based upon what I've here described, unfair.

Henrik R Clausen said...

Strangely, I never really liked LGF that much. I found the signal/noise ratio to be a problem, and there was too much trivial 'liberal-bashing' for my liking. Somehow, I thought of it as narrow-minded bigotry and went elsewhere.

That said, any strife between dedicated counter-Jihadists is damaging to our solidarity, and a waste of energy, too, and it's sad that Charles, with his large readership, falls into this trap.

Actually, it's a perfect example of the fairytale by Hans Christian Andersen of one lost feather going through the rumour-mill and developing into five dead hens, to the horror of everyone.

Heck, a genuine White-pride movement hardly exists in Europe any longer. Denmark had one, but it dissolved. Then there are the Nazis, of course, but no decent person would want any kind of connection with them anyway, given the history of Europe.

Weird thing. Guess we'll have to live with it and move on.

AWK said...

They say that when a door closes a window opens. In this case it's a very small window.

I've added this site to my blog roll.

All the best,


Alexis said...

Welcome to the club.

One thing I like about Gates of Vienna is your seriousness. You are more interested in winning victory against the enemy than taking cheap shots at other people. From my perspective, Gates of Vienna is "moderate" in the sense that it carefully documents its assertions and is highly respectful toward other people. This is a place that can give a Muslim visitor a fair hearing. The Gtes of Vienna does not glory in creating new enemies.

In contrast, the inner circle at Little Green Footballs is extraordinarily vicious. Whatever "mainstream" reputation it may have is more than made up for by the shrillness of its “Greek Chorus”. Given how Charles Johnson carefully vets his comments section, it can be reasonably assumed that comments by “hat tippers” reflect his basic philosophy. Although LGF has an ostensibly pro-Israeli reputation, Israel’s image is probably hurt more than helped by Little Green Footballs.

Little Green Footballs already has an international reputation, and it is likely to gain considerably more attention in the Arabic-speaking world due to its recent quarrel with Ray Hanania. During the 1990’s, Ray Hanania was a Palestinian moderate who criticized Fatah for being insufficiently committed to peace. In other words, he really is moderate. He is now the editor of the premier Arab-American magazine (published in both English and Arabic). It serves Mr. Hanania’s interests to publicize Charles Johnson’s comments far and wide, and it will sell newspapers in Arabic-speaking lands to point to Little Green Footballs as an example of anti-Muslim hatred.

In future years, you may come to see your removal from Charles Johnson’s blogroll to be a blessing in disguise, for your blog is vastly more educated, more sophisticated, and more dangerous to Islamists than the gutter politics of Little Green Footballs. I am proud to associate myself with you and your blog; I will not say the same about Charles Johnson.

PRCalDude said...

HerrMorgenholz, Miss_Anthrope,

I greatly appreciate your kind words and solidarity.