Monday, December 18, 2006

The German Church Draws the Line on Islam

EKD Martin LutherA few days ago, reader Kepiblanc notified us in the comments about a November 29th article in Die Welt called “The Protestant Church in Germany sets up guidelines for dialogue with Muslims”. Kepiblanc gave us this summary:

In short: Europeans must demand Muslims to respect certain values. Schoolteachers wearing head scarves are unfit to teach. Jewish and Christian symbols can be displayed in schools, because they don’t conflict with the values in Germany’s constitution. Nuns who teach can wear their order’s dress if they so prefer. Oppression of women, honor killings, female genital mutilation, and forced marriages are unacceptable and cannot be tolerated in a democratic society. No person can claim cultural identity as an excuse for violating human rights. And so on and so forth…

The Muslims in Germany aren’t happy.

The Protestant Church in Germany (Evangelischen Kirche in Deutschland) is a federation of the three main German denominations, with the Lutherans leading the way. It is, in effect, the state church of Germany.

The EKD has produced a 124-page document, entitled (my translation) “Clarity and Neighborliness: Christians and Muslims in Germany,” which advises members in their relations with Muslims in Germany.
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I asked Kepiblanc for more information, and he sent me the entire document in pdf format. I have no idea where the original is, so I posted a copy here for those whose German is up to the task.

Kepiblanc also sent along his summary and some translations of snips from the full document:

The whole document is trying to be very polite, and the title is “a handshake” to Muslims. The meaning, however, is very clear: to set up guidelines in dealing with Muslims. Almost every aspect of public life is covered, as you can see from the index on the first pages.

The overall picture is that enough is enough. Muslims must subordinate their faith to the principles of a democracy, obey the law and adjust their thinking and mores to the dominant culture of Germany — the so-called “leitkultur” (leading culture).

p 42 :

It is of the utmost importance to be aware of the Islamic concept of honor and family rights in Germany. In the case of forced marriages of German-born female Muslims and in the cases of violence or threats of death — founded on archaic conceptions of honor — the state and the society at large have an obligation to interfere. Nobody must doubt that. The discussion of these practices among Muslims themselves has a role of utmost importance in order to change old-fashioned concepts. Women who fall victim to maltreatment and mutilation must be given comfort, encouragement and practical help. Christians and their churches must encourage them to go to the police in order to obtain protection and help and to improve their situation. The courts must expose the perpetrators responsible to severe punishment.

p. 62 :

4. Furthermore, civil servants must at all times adhere to liberal democratic and constitutional structures and concomitantly to the equality of men and women. If a Muslim applicant for a training activity wants to wear a head cloth at public schools with reference to freedom of religion in the service, this behavior justifies doubts about her suitability — in view of the meaning of the head cloth in Islam — as a teacher in a national school.

Many Americans have already written off Europe as doomed, soon to be an outlying Sanjak in the revived Caliphate.

But consider the above samples, or the recent elections in the Netherlands, or the ongoing developments in Denmark: some Europeans are way ahead of us in their stance towards creeping Islamicization.

No mainline American denomination would dare issue a document such as the EKD guidelines. Official U.S. government policy would designate such guidelines as “racist”. We’ve got a long way to go before a liberal mainstream newspaper is willing to publish an interview with a Muslim woman who speaks out against the hijab.

It’s a matter of how close you are to the front lines. The attitudes of Europeans have been conditioned by the PC media cage enclosing them, but the bars of that cage are beginning to loosen as the Great Jihad looms ever closer to the average dhimmi of Eurabia citizen of Europe.

The bars of our American multicultural cage are still tightly set, but the same forces will eventually arrive here to loosen them.


Anonymous said...

God help us, 128 pages are necessary just to make the point that some human decency is required.

Only the Europeans...

Vol-in-Law said...

"It’s a matter of how close you are to the front lines"

Yup - confronting the real possibility of your own civilisation's annihilation really focuses the mind, as in the Netherlands following the Furtuyn & Van Gogh assassinations. The USA simply isn't in that position, despite concerns over Hispanic immigration, and still has the luxury of ignoring the problem if it wants to. The most immediately threatened western nations are the smaller European ones, like the Netherlands & Sweden. I suspect that if any country goes down, it will be Sweden. Part of me would rather that one of the small countries be lost quickly, because this would I think serve as wake-up call to the survivors. The Muslim Brotherhood strategy though is "boil all the lobsters slowly, and keep the temperatures similar", so that the day of reckoning is delayed and by the time it becomes clear what's happening it will be too late. I think their actual chances of taking Europe are low - maybe 20-30% - but there is certainly a real chance of success.

Vol-in-Law said...

"I think their actual chances of taking Europe are low - maybe 20-30%"

Although I'd say Germany in 1914 had about the same chance of establishing a German-dominated Europe, ie it's nothing to sniff at!

Dymphna said...

Mr. Smith:

For a bureaucracy, 128 pages is a brief. And they could have gone on in even greater detail as far as I'm concerned.

Good for Germany.

Meanwhile, how about this?
Compulsory halal meat in UK schools.

It makes you wonder how far down this dhimmi path the UK is willing to go. At least Germany has drawn a line in the sand...

Archbishop Cranmer said...

His Grace is most admiring of his Christian brethren In Germany, and thanks you for drawing your readers' attention to his post on compulsory halal meat.

Unfortunately, as the list at the end of his post indicates, the forcing of halal meat down the throats of our children is one relatively superficial manifestation of the ascendancy of Islam in the UK. There will be no line drawn in the sand as long as Tony Blair remains Prime Minister and the Labour Party wishes to remain in government. Too many Labour constituencies depend on the Muslim vote, so they are accorded a degree of privilege.

As a Church minister, I now see far more political reverence for the Mosque of England than for the Church of England. The former is dominating; the latter subjugated.

shoprat said...

At least some European Christians are fighting back. Now more need to wake up but what Europe really needs is a CHRISTIAN revival.

Papa Ray said...

"what Europe really needs is a CHRISTIAN revival."

Mother Mary and Jesus could appear in each country and request a renewal of faith...

Most of the [e]uropeans would call it a trick of the Jews or of the Americans, and either ignore, deplore and disbelieve.

Some might even use violence, as an answer to the coming... against the Christian Churches and the Jews.


Papa Ray
West Texas

heroyalwhyness said...

Vol-in-law states:
" Part of me would rather that one of the small countries be lost quickly, because this would I think serve as wake-up call to the survivors. "

The Balkans haven't provided enough of an incentive, huh?

Fellow Peacekeeper said...

" Part of me would rather that one of the small countries be lost quickly, because this would I think serve as wake-up call to the survivors. "

Sad but probably true. Sweden? Could be ... how about Belguim? State without a nation, part French, at the heart of the craziness in the EU, replicating Sweden's immigrant importation to shift the electoral balance stunt.

The Balkans haven't provided enough of an incentive, huh?

Nope. At the behest of the US (well, mostly Clinton and Albright) we (NATO) went to war with the Serbs in order to protect the muslims. In the case of Kosovo, we actually covered for the ethnic cleansing of the Christian population.

What terrifies me is the idea US lead UN intervention to protect Swedish (French, Belgian etc) muslims from the backlash wrath of the natives. Before anyone says "can't happen", it already has happened in the last decade to Yugoslavia, Serbia, and Macedonia.

Anonymous said...

shoprat, a dead church can't be revived. Neither European or US Christian churches have pastors or flocks that are willing to engage the culture. When "church" takes place within four walls, nothing happens and the culture sinks slowly into chaos. In most aspects, the church now mimics the culture.

Anonymous said...


Very true. I don't think it's actually possible for the UK to reverse course without massive trauma to the current status quo. I mean, if the July 7th bombings didn't wake people up, I really don't know what will.

All kudos to the Germans for making a (typically wordy) stand. Here's hoping that it helps their situation. Probably Papa Ray's right though, any atheist/liberal faced with a big shining miracle will immediately look for the 'OFF' switch.

Asger Trier Engberg said...

Well I suppose it all falls back on us danes.

An alliance between the danes and the germans could counter the islamic threat. In a few years the norweigians will step in as well I think - Fremskridtspartiet (the noweigian anti immigration party) is gaining momentum, and has very close ties to the danish antiimmigration political system.

The southern part of Sweden Skåne (what used to be Denmark) is also leaning against Denmark.

All in all we could potentially come up with quite a few antimujahedeens in the next 2 - 3 years.

This could spread into britain and the netherlands, Belgium and pehaps France. Sweden though is more or less a lost case - the swedish media is filled with loathing of danes calling them racist.

Anyway, in the end, we might have to step in Sweden, to counter the jihad there - and to free the swedes - after all we are brotherpeople.


Vol-in-Law said...

"The Balkans haven't provided enough of an incentive, huh?"

Clearly not, as Fellow Peacekeeper explains. In Kosovo the cultural-Marxist mass media and political elites actually pushed us into a disgusting war of ethnic cleansing against the Serbs, in order to advance the cause of the genocidal criminals and Islamists of the KLA. Since the NATO attack on Serbia was US-led, the USA didn't exactly cover itself in glory either.

Re Christinanity - my experience is that there is a good deal of latent Christianity here in Britain, and now that we have official State persecution of Christianity there is already something of a Christian revival. If there's one thing Christianity is well suited for, it's resistance to State persecution. London, where I live, also benefits from the presence of a large West Indian (Caribbean) population, who are much more devoutly Christian than the native whites. There are large numbers of African Christian here too. In other parts of Europe the immigrant population is almostly entirely Muslim. Non-European Christians are not infected by cultural Marxism and are very prominent in leading the fightback against State persecution. Men like the Anglican bishops Sentamu (African) and Nazir Ali (Pakistani) are at the forefront of the fight for western civilisation, much to the ire of the white cultural Marxists.

Vol-in-Law said...

fellow peacekeeper:
"Sad but probably true. Sweden? Could be ... how about Belguim? State without a nation, part French, at the heart of the craziness in the EU, replicating Sweden's immigrant importation to shift the electoral balance stunt."

Belgium is a likely prospect, but the northern Flems seem to have some resistance to cultural Marxism, identifying it with Walloon-French dominance. So it's possible Belgium could fragment rather than fall intact to the Islamists.

Vol-in-Law said...

"What terrifies me is the idea US lead UN intervention to protect Swedish (French, Belgian etc) muslims from the backlash wrath of the natives"

I agree that this is a genuine fear. The USA is always looking for goodies & baddies, and if they decide you're the baddy they won't let facts get in the way of a good bombing.

However, from what I know, it seems that the US hostility to the Serbs arose partly from ancestral American Jewish anti-Slav hostility, I recall a comment that Madeleine Albright was determined to get revenge on the Nazis by bombing the Serbs! Of course the real Nazis were allied with the Muslims and massacred the Serbs, but facts rarely seem to have much influence on these things. There is still a lot of ancestral Jewish hostility to the Slavs (qv Borat), but I would think that in the event of civil war in western Europe, surely by now American Jews would recognise that victorious Islamists would not be kind to Europe's remaining Jewish population? I would think this alone would prevent a US intervention on the Islamist side.

Voyager said...

It is, in effect, the state church of Germany.

No it ain't. Germany is around 50:50 Protestant/Catholic

with the North being mainly Protestant and the South mainly Catholic.........time to read up on the Thirty Years War and Treaty of Westphalia 1648

kepiblanc said...

With all due respect for the church(es) of Europe I don't think they'll play a major role in the battle against Islam. Over here it would merely be perceived as one sect fighting another. But - of course - the Christian Church might provide some sort of moral high ground. Alas, here in Denmark (and especially Britain) the Church has disgraced itself by some bishops and vicars siding themselves with the worst kind of useful idiots. Might be a bit different in Germany, though.

Speaking of Germany : As my old Regimental Sergeant Major used to say : "German humor is no laughing matter", but he was mistaken. Here you can watch : a German comedian making fun of Islam . Even if you don't understand German the overall picture is quite clear. Humor is a very powerful weapon....

Vol-in-Law said...

"Don’t be confused by people with Jewish last names who backed the intervention"

I take your point; I didn't mean that knowledgeable Jewish conspirators pushed the US to war. Rather, in the '90s secular liberal Jews and non-Jews watched films like the Spielberg one about the concentration camps, Schindler's List, and came out of the movie theatres looking for dragons to slay. I expect people with some Jewish ancestry but no real knowledge of WW2 were particularly prone to this, just as Americans with a little bit of black ancestry are the touchiest about race.

Stil, if I'm entirely wrong and NATO's attack on Serbia was entirely down to non-Jewish cultural-Marxist control of the US media & govt, it is much more worrying for Europe, as these people both loathe western civiisation and are increasingly anti-Semitic too. I fear they really could push the USA into intervening militarily to ensure an Islamist victory in Europe, although of course they would characterise it differently, as a 'humanitarian intervention', 'peacekeeping' and such.

Vol-in-Law said...

"I think ultimately our intervention was a product more of ignorance then calculation."

Yes, I agree entirely with your analysis. I just want to emphasise that on past performance the free world has good reason to fear US ignorance & naivite. My hope is that this ignorance would not extend to assisting Islamist conquest of western Europe, but this fear cannot be entirely discounted.

Hanley Family said...

Germany has no problem speaking out against those groups with whom it disagrees. Just look at how they treat homeschoolers...and with the same reasons. They have to submit to the socialization goals of the state.

The State Churches go after more than Muslims. They seem to have something against Southern Baptists and Presbyterians as well.

Anyway, on a related topic, and something you aren't likely to see published in an American newspaper:

Die Nachwuchs-Terroristen

I can translate it later, if need be.

And an interesting report(this one is in English and talks about the Enquiry Commission st up related to the state church's oversight of certain religious activities).

kepiblanc said...

Well Dana, at least the "Frankfurter Allgemeine" has the guts to report about those atrocities. A report like this would never appear in a French (or American ?) daily. I didn't know the problems were so severe in Berlin, but then again I mostly keep away from Kreuzberg and Neukölln (when in Berlin I rent a flat in Wilmersdorf (Katarinenstrasse)).

On a related note, a new policy is being introduced here in Denmark : when "youths" behave like that, not only will the perpetrator be put away, but his entire family will be kicked out of their apartment.

Hanley Family said...

I wouldn't know if the lack of reporting of Muslim difficulties in the US is because of self-censorship of the media, or because it isn't as much of a problem here. We don't seem to have any problem with the high Middle Eastern population where I live, but then, I don't think most of them are Muslim. I was in the home of one family when Saddam's brother or somebody or other was reported killed and cheering broke out. The father of the family had scars from Saddam's prisons.

I wasn't making any particular point...other than it isn't really surprising to me that Germany in particular would take this course of action. "They" must assimilate. That includes Muslims and Russian Baptists.

Captain USpace said...

Kudos to Germany! Hopefully other countries will just step into the water and try an act of courage against these human freaks. It will work, if we just keep saying no enough, and explaining and debating with them why, but 'it's our way or the highway'.

We BETTER beat them and teach them, and especially their youth, and their youth the truth, so eventually we can hopefully breed the Jihad out of them so when Muslims have finally totally outbred the rest of the humans; the Muslims that are in control are truly secular and moderate and not Sharia Taliban Fruitcakes.

absurder Gedanke -
Gott vom Universum kennt
Iran nie atomares Europa

Wenn sie zu Allah schwören
oder umarmt volles dhimmi Leben