Sunday, April 02, 2006

Aztlan and al-Andalus: Return to a Mythical Golden Age

Mike Austin has an intriguing take on the immigration marches, the La Raza push, etc. This aspect of the situation has been mentioned before, but he has a more complete report than most.

It’s about Aztlan (Aztec land?) and the fantasy of “taking back” all of the parts of former Mexican territory, both those that were captured in war, and those that were sold by Mexico to the U.S. when Polk was president.

AztlanAustin’s blog has good maps and a brief history of the process. But what is most worthy of your attention is his visualizatiion of the Aztlan dream. This map from his main page is the simple version, but you ought to click here,
also, to get a complete picture of the Aztlan group’s vision for 2080.

There is also a website dedicated to this idea. These folks are serious.

Isn’t this eerily like the Islamicist’s fantasy for the recapture of “al-Andalus”? Hmmm…don’t you wonder what Russia dreams about?

A contrary example: is there anyone in Britain bent on reclaiming India? Somehow I doubt it.

And Churchill said to Louis Mountbatten,
‘I just can’t stand to see you today –
How could you’ve gone and given India away?’
Mountbatten just frowned said, ‘What can I say?
Some of these things slip through your hands
And there’s no good talking or making plans.’
But Churchill – he just flapped his wings –
Said, ‘I don’t really care to discuss these things.’

– from “Post World War II Blues” by Al Stewart

Hint: cultures or people who look back rather than forward are carrying a large burden of resentment and entitlement. In this Age of Victimology, they have many opportunistic fellow-travelers. Watch your back.


Scott said...

Aztlan maybe a gleam in the eyes of
some immigrants but I don't think
even most Latinos want to see their
governments ruling California. For
all the so called pride in their
'culture' deep down most Latinos
recognize how inferior it really was/is.

That's why they fled.

Then there is the fact that, while
Mexicans maybe the majority of the
recent immigrants, there are large
contigents from Central America and
beyond. Would a immigrant from Peru
or Guatemala really support the
return of the American southwest to
Mexico even if the US were willing
to give it up? I think not. They
may all speak Spanish but they are
not all the same and would view
with horror the idea of the Mexican
government that has given its own
population centuries of poverty,
political corruption and even a
form of racial apartheid governing
them. Besides the children of even
illegal immigrants are, if not
completely, at least partially

ik said...

Maybe I am being totally off base here - but did anyone notice how these things seem to come together.

Could the incorrect response of the West to Islam have emboldened the Hispanics? (no no I am not suggesting any conspiracy theories - and I do not think these two groups are linked)

Always On Watch said...

Isn’t this eerily like the Islamicist’s fantasy for the recapture of “al-Andalus”?

Good point.

I agree with IK that the West's handling of the Muslims has emboldened the push we're seeing right now from Latinos. Perception of weakness has a far-reaching impact.

neandertal said...

Talk about victims. We neandertals are going to take back Europe from the muslims just as soon as we break the shackles of extinction...

X said...

I'm not sure Mexico would be too pleased with their plans. They're set to loose most of their northern states which, I think, are probably their most fertile and productive if I remember my geography right. These Aztlan people are making one hell of a power grab...

Dymphna said...

There's a convergence here, but no conspiracy. The unions, La Raza, and businesses would like to keep the Mexican slave labor in place.

Vicente Fox likes the thumb in our eye and the 30 bil Mexico gets back in remittances.

The subverters like CAIR want the country divided and the conversation acrimonious.

The MSM wants the drama -- it provides an audience for the circuses.

The Left, which doesn't seem to follow any economic theory besides the out-dated Keynesian type, want to pay the Mexicans a living wage...well, *they* don't want to do it exactly...more like the want the gummint to transfer Donald Trump's money...George Soros doesn't count.

El Jefe Maximo said...

Well, Aztlan and al-Andalus are perfectly valid concepts...if the proponents can but get them. There is no guarantee that the United States of America will rule the lands described forever and ever...I've been interested in the Aztlan fanatics since I read the novel Warday (Streiber and Kunetka), ages ago.

Who would have thought, a few years before the First World War, that Yugoslavia was anything more than a dream of some fanatics. Ditto a communist state in Russia, an expanded Romania, and all sorts of political facts that most of us are familiar with. With a little luck, none of these things would have happened (but that's just El Jefe's view).

Who, in 1917, for that matter, beyond the people who created it, would ever have conceived of a State of Israel by 1948 ?

Who would have ever believed that East and West Prussia, Posen, eastern Pomerania and Silesia would have been lost forever to Germany ? Certainly not madman Hitler, who made it happen.

Fanatics have gotten their wish-dreams granted more often than makes me comfortable, or have caused such damage that they unleashed other forces, with unforseen endings.

I hope Aztlan is a crackpot dream. I and millions of other Texans would accept Aztlan only over our dead bodies. But that doesn't mean it cannot, or will not happen.

We must be on our guard. The supplanting of religion and American nationalism by consumerism and individualism does not mean that others have forsaken their religions, or forgotten nationalist dreams, and warns us of the need to rediscover these things.

Anonymous said...

You might be interested to know that the Islamists have made headway into Mexico.

It would not surprise me at all to know that they are in some way involved in this movement. Either through direct funding or in stirring up unrest and resentment.

Shortly after 9/11 I was (living) in AZ. A local tv news station went to Hermosillo, Sonora (the northern most state of Mexico) where they interviewed Muslims about what happened on 9/11 and why. Muslims in Mexico? Seemed very odd at the time, but not so much now.

Islam Is Gaining a Foothold in Chiapas

Mexico Discovers Islam

Islam on march south of border

LonewackoDotCom said...

#1: except, they're trying to reach out to other "indigenous" movements. In that case, there'd be a coalition between the Aztlan groups and similar groups from other countries.

If anyone wants to downplay this, perhaps they would then like to explain why most Hispanic "leaders" - especially those in California - are former MEChA members (the "A" stands for Aztlan).

Also, here's a fun quote from "moderate" Bill Richardson: "We have to band together and that means Latinos in Florida, Cuban-Americans, Mexican-Americans, Puerto Ricans, South Americans - we have to network better - we have to be more politically minded - we have to put aside party and think of ourselves as Latinos, as Hispanics, more than we have in the past." Translating that into an (unspecified) language other than English is left as an exercise.

Muslihoon said...

On one of my posts today, I quoted Wikipedia regarding Aztlan: "Today most historians believe Aztlán, like Tamoanchan, to be a mythical place."

It is be possible they are agitating for an entity that never existed.

anonymouscoameq said...

Aztlan doesn't make any sense.

Mexicans want to come to the US because there are job here and not in Mexico. But they also want to make the US south west part of Mexico - the place the fled in desperation.

Are all those Mexicans in the south west going to emmigrate again to the east to get jobs once the economy in the south west is Mexicanized?

First they come here because of the differences between the US and Mexico, then they want to make the US the same as Mexico.

It doesn't make any sense.

X said...

Neither does the fact that Muslims flee Islamic countries and them try to recreate them in new places.

I'd guess that the mentality is the same, even if the goals are different. As dymphna said, no conspiracy. But there rarely are conspiracies in the classic clichéd sense of the word; mostly they consist of groups that happen to be moving in similar directions and who then team up for a while to achieve common goals.

AbbaGav said...

No, England doesn't want India back, but I wouldn't be surprised if Italy demanded its Roman colony, Britain, back. The world's gone crazy. Seems like everyone wants to play musical chairs with national boundaries. Maybe Barney the Dinosaur will put forth a claim for the entire Earth's surface on behalf of dinosaurs and reptilian descendants, whose dominion was stolen from them by wily mammals. Sorry, this stuff is too ridiculous, even if it is predictable.

NahnCee said...

It doesn't make any sense.

Of course it makes sense if you see it as the same tactic as the Palestinians pushing to throw the Jews out of Israel, and oh, by the way, leave behind everything you've built up so we can have it.

The Palestinians want to return to their "mother-land" (which never was) -- check. So do the Mexicans.

The Palestinians are poor and broke and uneducated -- check. So are the Mexicans.

The Palestinians have no legal rights so they're resorting to demographics and breeding babies -- check. So are the Mexicans.

The Palestinians love to burn American flags -- check. So do the Mexicans.

Gee, speaking of the US's bad response to Muslims and Arabs, you don't suppose the Mexicans got this idea from watching the dreadful Palestinians, do you?

Anonymous said...

So, what exactly do they want Aztlán to look like?
When James K. Polk was President, what is now the American Southwest was a stinking desert, inhabited by a few Indians living in mud huts. But nobody wants to go back to those days, which would defeat the purpose of leaving Mexico in the first place. If they succeed in throwing out the Americans (however they define them), the best they can expect is more Mexico. What's the point of that?

Frank said...

We Anglo-Saxon folk ought to try to empathize with the Aztlans. Imagine the angst of having centuries of heart removal custom taken away by whitey in one fell swoop.

Imagine no longer being able to see the pyramids noonday glisten in fresh arterial blood, or no longer worrying about Aztec war parties swooping into the village to take sacrificial victims and slaves. The inquisition was but a pale replacement for the excitement of those bygone Golden Age.

In fact, I'm going to take a valuable lesson here. I'm going to reclaim Scotland, from which I was expelled through the agency of my great great great...nevermind...anyway, the English owe me and I'm going to get it. Haggis will be the national food, sheep stealing and tartan weaving the new economy, and anybody trying to stop me will suffer the proud moose-in-heat call of the bagpipes.

Molly Pitcher said...

One wonders what the First People of the Western Hemisphere (also known as Native Americans and Indians) might have to say about this Mexican wet dream. I doubt the Navajo, Pueblo and assorted tribes would want some third-rate Aztec mythology shoved down their throats.

ik said...

Britain demanding India back? - Well they would get Pakistan and Bangladesh too - Buy 1 get 2 free

Frank said...

Molly said:
"One wonders what the First People of the Western Hemisphere (also known as Native Americans and Indians) might have to say about this Mexican wet dream. I doubt the Navajo, Pueblo and assorted tribes would want some third-rate Aztec mythology shoved down their throats."

No no no Molly. You have it all wrong. Before White Man come, Indian live in sylvan harmony with each other and nature. Buffalo roam over cliff by accident, supply food, no global warming, no bird flu, everybody heap happy happy happy. Bringum back happy time for one big happy first nation go yippee.

After all, there's something to be said for a resurgent stone age. For instance, um...... medical care costs less...

Dr. Schmenghs said...

I think it's a bit too far off to say that after a war, things should go back to the way they were as far as land and borders where before the war. Mexican-America war?

We fought the Mexicans and won. Plus bought some land too. Where is Russia crying to take back Alaska? The French Louisiana?

To me, if anything, I see this as the Mexican insurgant programme. Just as Islam has flooded European cities waiting for the green light from their Imams to riot on the streets, these Aztlanian fundelmentalists might be trying to set up a majority of conspirators within U.S. borders, trying to overpopulate area's whereas to hide in secret whilst they plot thier agenda(political or violent)and have boots on the ground in America.

Too unbeleivable maybe, but if your paranoid like me, thinking the FDA is willingly allowing harmful additives in your food supply, then, going with my paranoia, these Illeagal Insurgants are just as harmful as the Insurgents going into Iraq. They just have not been activated yet. And they are on OUR soil.

The picture of the map is exactly where all of the Illeagals are flooding to.

Well except for Reading

I doubt that my paranioa can be confirmed, but it is still Illegals(AKA Felonious Criminals)that are penetrating our borders, and who knows what a Felonious Criminal is thinking.

If Amnesty is givin, and they immediatly get citizenship and the right to vote, with the sheir #'s they have, elections will have different outcomes, and they will get Aztlan back by de-facto voting process. A vote they did not have a right too. But Americans still have not yet learned that our enemy is using our freedoms to destroy us.

Anonymous said...

Don't forget that Hispanic culture is heavily influenced by Arab/Islamic culture. Then transplanted to the New World by the Spaniards. It makes sense that some Hispanics would have similar attitudes to Arab/Muslims, i.e, wanting to turn their new country into the same type of place they fled from.

Sillie Lizzie said...

"Hint: cultures or people who look back rather than forward are carrying a large burden of resentment and entitlement"

Hmmm. That's what the lefties keep saying about those of us who stand for the principle of interpreting the Constitution according to "original construction", i.e. what those "dead white guys who owned slaves" meant 200 years ago.

Suddenly it doesn't apply to "dead bronze guys who sacrificed children to the Sun God".

Unknown said...

Great post! I just posted one on the subject called
Aztlan Arising - the illegal subversion of America