Friday, November 24, 2006

The Lumpen Electorate

Well, it’s been two weeks, now, and I can finally write about the election.

DespairI’ve passed through all the typical emotional stages of reaction to tragedy — shocked disbelief, denial, numbness, escape, and — finally — bitter determination.

It’s not as though the election made that much of a difference. We’re only a millimeter away from where we were on November 6th, but we passed through a membrane in order to get here. The damage had long been done, but now we have to acknowledge it.

There’s plenty of blame to go around, whether it’s Rumsfeld, the State Department, the craven and profligate Congress, or the President’s open-borders-and-amnesty immigration policy.

Above all, there are the mainstream media, the traitorous lackeys of the Left who have gone over to the enemy. With the media doing the heavy lifting for the mujahideen, the Republicans had no chance, even if they had somehow managed to grow brains and a spine in time for the election.

The shape of things to come is becoming clear. Syria — which means Iran — has moved openly in Lebanon, with the mullahs in Tehran ready to proclaim victory. Sensing the imminent American pullout, the terrorists in Iraq are ramping up the violence, knowing that with just a little more carnage the Democratic Congress will be ready to cut the funding for the war and abandon the Iraqis to their fate. The specialists at Reuters are probably even now photoshopping the last helicopter lifting off from the roof of the American embassy in Baghdad.

It doesn’t mean that we won’t fight this war, or that we will lose it (although we might). It means that we will fight it later, closer to home, and with many more casualties than we would otherwise have had to take. It means that right about the same time that the Supreme Court forces the states to institute homosexual marriage, parts of Dearborn will be instituting Shari’a. It means that right about the same time that amnesty is declared for all the Mexicans illegally in this country, agents of Al Qaeda infiltrated across the southern border will be detonating a weapon of mass destruction in a major city of the United States.
- - - - - - - - - -
The power of the legacy media is immense, despite their declining stock prices and number of viewers. The blogosphere and other alternative media are expanding, and they represent the future. But politicians don’t pay much attention to the blogs; they still take their cues from The New York Times. It is fear of the major newspapers and the networks which has driven the Republicans to take such cowardly positions on nearly every issue. Even their responses to the immigration problem, which polled so clearly in favor of strict enforcement, were late and lame.

When you read that John Boehner, the new House minority leader, gets his information from “the newspapers”, you know the depth of trouble that we are in. The people who brought you Mohammed al-Dura, the “genocide” of Jenin, and the massacred babies of Qana — those are the same people who are informing the opposition party in the United States Congress.

Weep for America.

And with the giants of the Republican Party leading, can the average American be far behind?

We, the readers of Gates of Vienna, and other members of the VRWC live in a rarefied atmosphere. We’re relatively well-informed, and vacuum up information wherever it can be found, not relying on news filters and conventional sources.

But most Americans don’t pay much attention. They have only the most superficial grasp of political issues, yet many of them vote. When they pick up any political information at all, it is from the soundbites on the network news, or from the headlines in the national dailies. And in the last two decades these organs of the Fourth Estate have gone from being biased towards the liberal to being outspoken shills for the Democrat party. The simple truth is that, due to the uniform partisanship of the media, it has become politically impossible for a Republican administration to prosecute a war successfully. We will have Vietnam, and then Vietnam, and then more Vietnam, over and over again, until the electorate gets the message and votes the Democrats back into power.

I have seen this process at work with a couple of my close relatives. These people aren’t stupid, and they aren’t even ignorant of most things. But they don’t pay any attention to political matters in any depth. It doesn’t mean that I always disagree with them — since they are regular working folks and not members of the runny-brie-and-dry-Chablis élite, they often have reliable instincts that run against the prevailing politically correct wisdom.

But when they talk about current political issues, their positions are almost word-for-word from the headlines in the Washington Post or the soundbites from the evening news. You can hear them say “Bush is a moron” or “Republicans only care about rich people” without any idea of whose party line they are parroting or where they picked it up. And when election day rolls around, they troop on down to the firehouse and do their civic duty.

It’s a reasonable assumption that there are millions more like them all across the country, and that’s how the same people could vote for Bush two years ago and yet make Nancy Pelosi speaker of the House this year.

Eventually the decline of the legacy media will become so severe, and the alternative media so widespread, that ordinary people and politicians will be collecting their information from different sources. But that process will take at least another decade, by which time it will be too late to keep us out of the worst of the struggle against the Great Islamic Jihad.

It’s going to be a lengthy war, and a messy one. Gird your loins and settle in for the long haul.


Nessus said...

I'm a life-long resident of Dearborn, Michigan so I can speak with some practical experience about the Islamization of the USA and the West.

While Dearborn has always had a sizeable Arab population, in the past most were Arab Christians but since the early 1990's, more and more fundamentalist Muslims have settled here and started building mosques and so called Islamic schools/academies (madrassas) like there's no tomorrow.

The only solution as I see it is for Western nations to reduce Muslim immigration substantially over the coming years and prohibit the slightest whiff of Sharia law from being implemented.

Anonymous said...

To use your own phrase, the American people bitch-slapped the Republicans for acting like the Lords of the Manor. The pork project factory that was Congress offended most conservatives and moderates.

I also believe you are right - partly - Americans don't like to see US soldiers in body bags. Never have. But they do not shrink from seeing the enemy killed. They never complained about the highway of death from Iraq I. But we refuse to attack the real enemy and pacify Iraq, Iran, Syria or Saudi Arabia. Until we break the will of the lands of Islam, we can not win. It was how we had to defeat the Nazis and Imperial Japan - we had to break them. And that means massive civilian casualties. Because like it or not, most followers of Islam AGREE with the mad mullahs and see us as the "Great Satan."

In the end, I think a lot of voters sent a message to the Democrats (one they still don't get yet) - put up or shut up. This is there chance to lead, follow or get the hell out of the way. This is it - one chance. If they continue to do stupid things in the majority, they will get smacked in '08.


Eric said...

I think Thrasymachus (gawd, that's hard to type!) is right...9/11 wasn't enough for most Americans to stay pissed off enough beyond the few weeks or months immediately following.

I also agree with rob/d/bob...the Dems have been given a chance to put up or shut up. I doubt, though, that the election was the result of that being a conscious message from the electorate. My personal impression is that the electorate went the way of Spanish voters and gave the jihadis just what they wanted.

Zerosumgame said...

Baron, The propagandists who dominate the media, particularly outside America, but to some extent here as well, by prolonging the War on Terror, are proving to be agents of genocide.

One other thing that will happen, thanks to the leftist/Islamist media before the War on Terror ends:

Hitler will see his final victory through his Islamic children - a Judenrein world. And there can be no doubt that this is a major goal of the world media; especially in Europe and the Islamic world.

The world has reverted to historical form with its irrational hatred of Jews, a hatred that this media fans with its Nazi-like portrayal of Israel, and its whitewashing of Islamonaziism. Most of the world media (including some in the USA) is determined that Iran get the bomb precisely because the red-green alliance agrees above all else on the need to eradicate the Jews. Once Iran gets the bomb, and nukes Israel, Judaism will wither away and die, its desperate 2000+ year-old struggle for survival having been in vain.

Beach Girl said...

On Judaism withering away and dieing if Iran nukes Israel - don't know abou that. Depends upon who America has in the White House.

Problem is that many nations will have become Islamic Republics - even if in numbers only.

Could be wrong, of course, but I believe that if Iran nukes Israel, all hell will break loose. I think the world is just hanging on tender hooks, ready to "blow".

Islam has declared war on the world and Islam is intent, believing in the coming of their "messiah". That belief seems to be the operating factor and we have seen in the past that these have yet to materialize for about the last 2000 years or so.

Baron Bodissey said...

Zero, I don't accept your premise -- that there is a conscious intention in the media to eradicate the Jews -- but I'll pretend that I do, for the sake of argument.

Now -- Because Jews tend to be literate and well-educated, they are over-represented in the major media. How do they fit into the plan? Are they Suicide Jews? Or are they out of the loop?

Just wondering...

X said...

Zero, you do your own people very little justice with those statements. Every historical assault on the jewish people has resulted in their strengthening. Look at the scriptures. Every single time a nation came against Israel, the people were brought back stronger, and closer to the goal God intended for them (or just stronger and wiser if you don't go in for that whole God thing). Every assault against Israel has ultimately become a tool that Israel used to strengthen its character. Arguably modern judaism wouldn't exist without the assyrian and babylonian exiles and the later roman dispersion of the jews. You'd be an oppressed minority akin to zoroastorianism, landless and nomad, but instead you're across the entire world, often wealthy, often with great and beneficial influence and generally welcome. Nothing can wipe out Israel as a nation. Only God could, and he doesn't seem that way inclined.

Fabian Pascal said...


Careful: "the jews are over-represented in the media" comes more than close to the good old anti-semitic argument. I doubt you meant that.

Anyway, there have always been self-hating jews. They are those who have succumbed to anti-semitism by others--now the islamo-fascists and the left--by believing its claims and trying to exclude themselves as targets. Witness Judt, Chomsky et. al.

What Is Not to Be Done

Anonymous said...

Problem is that many nations will have become Islamic Republics - even if in numbers only.

France is right on the verge, and Sweden not far behind.

Baron Bodissey said...


I've been clear on this matter before, but I'll state it clearly again now:

Jews are "over-represented" (in the sense of "in excess of their proportion of the population") in the arts, the sciences, the entertainment industry, and all other intellectual endevors. This happens because they tend to be better-educated than the average goy, and seemingly more talented.

In other words, I'm a philo-semite. Deal with it.

Baron Bodissey said...

Onesimus -- gald you liked the graphic! I had to search a long time for it.

Fabian Pascal said...

Well, I know what you meant, but the anti-semitic argument is not much different. Hence my advice to be careful with such arguments, particularly since you don't have accurate empirical evidence to back it up.

That was an aside though. The important point was my reply re self-hating jews, which you have not replied to.

Fabian Pascal said...

Incidentally, consider the current leadership in Israel: do they strike you as educated and intelligent?

I lived there for 18 years between 1961-1978 and it was never was as incompetent, corrupt and confused as it is now, just when it's most critical to be the opposite. That has a lot to do with americanization.

Leadership is what saved Israel's butt against all odds, and the lack thereof is what may well doom it these days.

Baron Bodissey said...


I will ignore your antagonistic tone for the nonce.

Contrary to what you say, there is plenty of empirical evidence for the relative success of Jews in all academic fields. I don’t feel like googling it up right now, but it’s out there.

There’s no indication that this is due to genetic factors, although the Jews and ethnic Chinese consistently score higher on IQ tests, SATs, etc., than Caucasians. I’ve always assumed this particular difference is cultural, since both groups place a strong emphasis on education and achievement. But who knows?

When colleges quit practicing affirmative action and admit students based solely on academic ability, Jews and Asians are admitted in numbers in excess of their proportion in the general population, while blacks and Hispanics are under-represented. These are facts, and easy to verify. See Thomas Sowell.

I don’t believe in racial explanations for these facts, but I don’t believe in pussyfooting around the statistics, either.

As for the current leadership of Israel, I assume you mean Olmert, primarily. I am appalled by him. If the Jewish state cannot find a more capable leader, it will not survive.

Fabian Pascal said...

First of all, I am NOT antagonistic at all. I am just suggesting care to avoid a common misinterpretation.

The genetic basis of anti-semitism is not salient here. The argument that "jews control everything" is. And the claim that they are overrepresented can be so interpreted, whether it is mediated via education or not is irrelevant. I have not seen any serious empirical evidence to that effect, it's always anecdotal.

No, it's not just Olmert. It's the whole leadership: political, military, economic. The reason Olmert and Peretz ended up as PM and DM is precisely because there are no serious leaders available.

Baron Bodissey said...


Perhaps you are only argumentative, rather than antagonistic.

In any case, you have driven me to Google. Here are some statistics from a Wikipedia article:

IQ  Group
113  Jewish Americans
106  East Asians
100  Whites
89  Hispanics
89  Native Americans
85  African Americans
70  Subsaharan Africans

Naturally, the topic is disputed. Such statistical investigations so violate political correctness that they are almost impossible to pursue in academia. Follow the citations in the article back to the original data.

I have seen similar lists many times.

Always On Watch said...

As a teacher who fled the public school system in 1978 and then fled private education in favor of teaching groups of homeschoolers, I agree with Onesimus:

The MSM hasn't done this alone. The NEA has been trashing the US educational system for years.

David Horowitz focuses on what's happening in higher education, but the same problems are rife even in elementary schools.

We have at least two generations who have been brought up to believe the headlines and not to bother with doing their own research, as Baron pointed out. it's eaier to accept what the media says. Furthermoe, way too many people are focused on grabbing the latest release from PlayStation.

Fellow Peacekeeper said...

On the bright side the Democrats probably won't do too much irreprable harm. Pelosi is already caught up in the grubby reality of day to day politics. The invisible left hand of the free market will corrupt the hippies until they are good corporation supporting hippies. Of course 6 years of Bush and both houses 'pub and much of Clinton's misdeeds were never reversed.

Except for the potential illegal amnesty/border non-enforcement ploy to permanently shift the electorate leftwards (like the Belgian or Swedish socialists). That would screw things up permanently and beyond repair.

Zero, zero. :) I missed you, my morning is not complete without enjoying your one of your paranoid rants. Why not submit some of these comments to the blogs Shrinkwrapped or Dr Sanity?

"Hitler's Islamic Children"?

I can only suggest to read some history thats not presented in graphic novel format.

"Most of the world media (including some in the USA) is determined that Iran get the bomb precisely because the red-green alliance agrees above all else on the need to eradicate the Jews."

Bizzare. Red-green alliance? World media = BBC and al Jazeera? Which others, in the USA no less?

Fabian Pascal said...

Ah, Wikipedia.

Anyway, this is still anecdotal. Certainly cannot support a general argument of "jews overrepresented in the sense you expressed.

I happen to be a social scientist and know something about social measurments. Very problematic.

Anyway, the main issue is the lack of leadership in Israel. Look at what happens now: just about when they have been causing real damage to the terror groups, in conjunction with the US and EU economic boycott, they're about to go for a cease-fire allowing them to regroup and emulate Hezbollah in Gaza. That's the current Israeli IQ: they learned from the americans, I guess.

Baron Bodissey said...


Try the Nobel Prize winners in the sciences for cold, hard evidence. Look at the list of names. How many of them are Jewish?

Fellow Peacekeeper said...

Ah, Wikipedia.

Anyway, this is still anecdotal.

Weel, no. It got to wikipedia via "The Bell Curve", and that is statistical rather than anectdotal. The best internet source is probably a search in Steve Sailer's blog for virtually anything on the subject. He goes into a great deal of detail on the veracity of comparative national IQ scores for instance.

Fabian Pascal said...

I am not particularly interested in the subject, but I know enough about such definitions and measurements to be quite careful with interpretations.

However, to reiterate: that is a side issue. The main point is that the current behavior of the Israeli government and military does not support Baron's argument.
And that is the real concern, because they can't afford it.

Fabian Pascal said...

And Nobel prizes don't count much in the circumstances.

Baron Bodissey said...


One place I can agree with you is that Israel faces a mortal danger because of the asininity of its current government.

BTW --

"Ashkenazim have won 27 per cent of the Nobel Prizes awarded to Americans, while making up just three per cent of the population."

See Arthur Hu's Jewish Statistics Page. Lots more good, solid info there.

Fellow Peacekeeper is right about Steve Sailer. I've seen his stuff.

Eaglenest said...

Jews have been practicing Eugenics for generations. That's why you can see them in all "higher" positions, music, math etc. In the U.S.,Eugenics was a common practice too until two,three decades ago, when we started introducing Dysgenics..... Dumbing down. !!!
Chinese are similar to Jews. For several generations they had been forced not to have children. Only inteligent parents were allowed to have more than one. Sometimes even three.

Vol-in-Law said...

I can never understand the argument that the war in Iraq prevents Al Qaeda attacks against the US homeland or Islamist expansion in the USA. Conversely, I can't see how defeat in Iraq will make Al Qaeda attacks more likely or Islamist expansion more rapid. Islamist expansion in the USA is facilitated by neocon "invade the world/invite the world" doctrine that refuses to restrict immigration or the expansion of a hostile religious force in the USA, apparently due to an irrational fear that such measures would next be turned against Jews.
Al Qaeda has always had the capacity to attack the USA, according to Ron Suskind's "The One Percent Doctrine" the reason they have not done so is that they fear that an attack less than 9/11 would blunt the psychological impact of 9/11; eg they cancelled a chemical attack on New York in 2002 that was all set to go because they feared it wouldn't kill enough people. So they don't want to attack the US mainland unless they can kill more than the 3,000 victims of 9/11, but US victory or defeat in Iraq makes no difference. The only thing that would make a difference would be destruction of the Al Qaeda leadership, who are safe & sound in Pakistan.

Vol-in-Law said...

"Jews have been practicing Eugenics for generations"

"Cite your source, or STFU"

I think he just means that amongst Ashkenazi Jews the more intelligent have more children, so median intelligence rises over time.

Zerosumgame said...


Now -- Because Jews tend to be literate and well-educated, they are over-represented in the major media. How do they fit into the plan? Are they Suicide Jews? Or are they out of the loop?

The Jews in the American media have leftism as their primary religion. That is how a supposedly "Jewish" paper like the NY Times can be so anti-Israel (and the family owning it is no longer Jewish, BTW, they became Episcopalian). This is how an Islamo-leftist propaganda machine like CNN can have Wolf Blitzer on for 5 hours a day; this is how Mike Wallace can laugh with the Iranian Hitler on "60 Minutes."

To be in today's media, Jews have to "convert" to the predominant faith of the institution, which is Marxism/Leftism.

Zerosumgame said...


Judaism would not survive two Holocausts in less than a century. It would convince most Jews (including I think many Orthodox ones) that the covenant is broken, if there is a G-d at all. Most would be lost to a combination of assimilation and conversion.

And with radical Islam ascendant, having nuclear weapons, and controlling most of the world's institutions, the surviving Jews would not be safe anywhere. The Islamofascists would be single-minded in their attempts to eradicate all Jews. Leaders of Hamas, Hezbollah and al-Qaeda have been quite open about this.

Zonka said...

vol-in-law wrote: I can never understand the argument that the war in Iraq prevents Al Qaeda attacks against the US homeland or Islamist expansion in the USA. Conversely, I can't see how defeat in Iraq will make Al Qaeda attacks more likely or Islamist expansion more rapid.

Al Qaeda is more like a brand than an organization, just like "Cola" anybody who makes a brownish softdrink that remotely tastes like Coca-Cola can call it Cola... Thus the so-called fight against Al Qaeda is mostly a fiction, anybody who takes up arms in the name of Islam against the West or other "oppressors" can if they will label themselves an Al Qaeda cell and many do, some have formal ties to the original Al Qaeda group but many don't... So the fight against Al Qaeda is just as much a misnomer as "The War on Terror"... In the sense that the WoT is naming a tactic the enemy, the Fight against Al Qaeda is targeting too narrow a group... It's like calling WWII "The War on Blitzkrieg" or "The Fight against Luftwaffe"... neither is particulate helpful and both deflecting the attention away from what is pertinent. Like in WWII we're up against totalitarian ideologies both abroad and at home. There is good reasons why the war hasn't gotten another name, namely that it would be hard not to name "Islam" or "Muslims" in the title of the war, and that would put us on a tactical disadvantage. The problem now is that the tactical disadvantage of not calling the war by its right name is putting us at a greater disadvantage, because of the misleading opinion on what we're fighting is eroding the support for the war. It would be more honest to call it WWIII and acknowledge that it is a fight against the totalitarian ideology of Islam as well as the totalitarian ideology of the ultra-liberals (marxists, communists, multi-culturalists and the whole PC gang).

As for the Jews and Chinese being on the top of the academic fields, is really a cultural thing and quite simply a survival tactic by those groups. Jews ave a history of persecution and oppression where they did not have their own nation, and their earthy goods could be seized at the whim of the local authorities, so they had to turn to other sources than most other people, abandoning real estate and such and go into areas where the fruits of their labor couldn't be seized easily such as cash (banking, money lending, etc.) and services based on knowledge and skills, thus the drive for education... If you are smart and intelligent you are more likely to survive having your earthly belongings taken from you.

The Chinese are a bit different, but because of the mere size of the Chinese population, one has to have special abilities to rise up above the average to become successful, and in a population that is mostly relatively poor the way to rise in the system has traditionally been to emphasize good education and knowledge. Even to the point where some families are bankrupting themselves to send their children to a foreign university to study.

And at the same time the prosperous West aren't facing the same challenges and unfortunately are as a whole paying less and less interest in education, and where we value it it is mostly in a very narrow sense, in specific areas, instead of giving our kids a broad foundation of a "Classical Education", and instead you have many students walking out universities like say engineers but without knowing anything about philosophy, history or other important areas that define our cultural values in our Western societies and gives them a weak defense when those values are threatened, as we see it now. This is also why our schools and universities are under an ideological attack by those that wants to undermine the values of the West, whether they want the Ummah, the Dictatorship of the Proletariat or the Multi-Cultural Paradise... What better way than by going through our kids!

Zerosumgame said...


As for the Jews and Chinese being on the top of the academic fields, is really a cultural thing and quite simply a survival tactic by those groups. Jews ave a history of persecution and oppression where they did not have their own nation, and their earthy goods could be seized at the whim of the local authorities, so they had to turn to other sources than most other people, abandoning real estate and such and go into areas where the fruits of their labor couldn't be seized easily such as cash (banking, money lending, etc.) and services based on knowledge and skills, thus the drive for education... If you are smart and intelligent you are more likely to survive having your earthly belongings taken from you.

The Chinese are a bit different, but because of the mere size of the Chinese population, one has to have special abilities to rise up above the average to become successful, and in a population that is mostly relatively poor the way to rise in the system has traditionally been to emphasize good education and knowledge. Even to the point where some families are bankrupting themselves to send their children to a foreign university to study.

Chinese are often called "The Jews of the East" because in many countries, a small Chinese minority dominates the entrepeneurial class.

In America, they (and increasingly, Hindu Indians) are referred to as "the new Jews" due to their overwhelmingly disproportionate academic success and upward mobility.

Where I live, affluent and upper middle class suburbs have both large Jewish and large Asian populations, and yes, they tend to dominate academic achievment (Asians perhaps more so, since they are newer to this country; they have not had 2 generations to "get spoiled"). But it is also interesting from an ethnic racial angle; about 50% of American Jews marry non-Jews, but about a quarter of those intermarriages are to Asian-Americans; so American Judaism will take on some Asian ethnicity in the coming decades.

Jews, more than any other group of Americans, have been fascinated by China and the Orient; comedians have made jokes for decades about American Jews and their fondness for Chinese food.

eatyourbeans said...

I think we can shortly expect an Islamic Reich whose capitol is Tehran and which will dominate the middle-east and somewhat more. The oil fields will be theirs of course; maybe they'll sell to the infidel west, maybe they won;'t. We shouldn't buy, but probably will at any price exacted. Israel ? Thrown under the bus. Putin, whose own oil fields have made quite frisky lately, will also put the screws to us. How mch lost real estate will he want back?

So look forward to a new and frigidly cold war. China, meanwhile, will sit on the sidelines, buy lots of oil, get richer, and when she thinks it opportune harm us where she can and settle with Taiwan.

But there may be a few bright spots in this disaster. The first is that Tehran can be held responsible for all actions of Islamic terrorists worldover, so there will be a clear return address for our missles. The second good thing--possibly--is once the USA is humbled, Russia and Islam will fall a-quarreling over all those energy-rich and moslem Kakastans around the Caspian sea region.

Oh yeah, just maybe there'll be 3rd silver lining. The American people will grow up.

Frank said...

Sorry...just had to weigh in on Fabian's cautionary note to the Baron.

A good part of the latent anti-Semitism afoot in the west today comes from the past few decades of bullying and bellowing that emitted from various Jewish lobby groups every time someone dares mention Judaism in even the most passive negative light. Like a former colleague once said, if you keep shrieking for someone to stop hitting you when they are not, don't be surprised if they eventually start hitting you. My former colleague was a Jew and his advice was directed at some of his co-religionists. People like zerosum and other vociferous victims do far more harm to Judaism than good.

It is a fact that Jews are disproportionately represented in the US media, and although I have no statistical backup, probably in the west itself.

It is a fact that Jews are over-represented in certain fields, including law and medecine.

It is a fact that Jews are over-represented in Hollywood.

The reasons are whatever the reasons are; Barons are as good as any, but that's not the point: The fact of the fact is the point.

One of the more anti-Semetic folks on my discussion board has recently made a great hullabaloo over the fact that there exists in the US a strong Jewish lobby. He's right. That's another fact. Certain defenders of Israel on the board argue that its anti-Semetic to make that argument, but that's just silly. Hiding facts as if they are shameful only works for so long before it backfires.

The simple reply to the anti-Semite is that of course its true, but so what? There's a strong Islamic lobby in the west too...we know that because we can track it by the number of burnt cars lying about here and there across the west.

So far we haven't seen a lot of synagogues erupt in anger onto the street to burn cars and string up homosexuals following particularly exciting sermons on Saturday morning, and Judaism seems to have given up most of its more barbaric practises from the 2nd millenium BC, but Islam seems not to be of the same mindset.

Its silly to hide facts in the name of political correctness. The best way to win a war is to set the parameters of the action, not to fight within externally imposed rules. As long as we adhere to the norms of the liberal PC crowd, we will always be at a disadvantage.

If someone calls you "racist", embrace it. Nothing like agreeing with one's opponent to throw them off balance. He may have prepared carefully for his argument, but you can be sure he's not ready with a comeback to that one. With respect, that's why Fabian's argument collapsed in the face of Baron's counterattack.

Vol-in-Law said...

"It is a fact that Jews are over-represented in X"

I think some people (zerosumgane) think "over-represented" is being used in a normative sense, ie "There are too many Jews in X", whereas you're just making a factual statement, that there are more Jews in field X than their proportion in the US population.

Thanos said...

I personally got over the election a while back, I am looking forward. There are wars to win still.

Here's my latest opus:

noting something we haven't done in Iraq, but which has been in all other major conflicts. If you want the bad guys to stop, you have to give them an exit and a reason.

Also for the discussion on intelligence and IQ, please reference Linda S. Gottfredson, she's the most expert. Warning -- to understand her works you have to have a bit of intelligence yourself.

Fabian Pascal said...

Well, this exchange has justified my warning that the statistical argument made by Baron can be interpreted by some as anti-semitism too. It did and it will. It always does.

I know of no sensible jew defending claiming that the obseravtion of a Jewish lobby is antisemitic. The claim that the jewish lobby controls and distorts US policy, THAT is antisemitic. What is more, anti-semites have learned to distract from this fact by complaining that they are accused just because they "factually criticized Israel".

It looks like the general preference is for jews neither to have their own country, nor to have lobbies, like everybody else, including corporations who are the REAL distorters of US interests. In fact, jews should not have anything anywhere. Whenever they have anything, be it good or bad, they should not.

Israel is now an inconvenient state. The West, which is now in the same stage as Rome was when the barbarians were at its gate, belabors under the illusion that if they just throw the jews to the islamo-fascists, they will save themselves. But, you know, they first came for the jews and I did not do anything, then they came for ... you know where this is going.

As to american public growing up, how? After they destroyed the educational system and developed its own theocratic tendencies?
It is getting worse, not better.

In fact, the whole fiasco in the ME and the notion that by appeasing you can get fascists to spare you is due precisely to american ignorance of history and inability to interpret it which is the consequence of the collapse of education.

I recommend Martin Kramer and Bernard Lewis.

Fabian Pascal said...

Hamas predicts uprising if no peace progress

Note that Meshaal refers to the 1967 borders WHICH HE DOES NOT RECOGNIZE and will not agree to for the formation of the unity govt.

Pay attention to what Dichter is saying: the fact that Hamas threatens and does not actually do it is because the Israeli operations and the int'l boycott are having an effect.

Yet my guess is that such threats will have an effect on lifting the boycott and even an Israeli cease-fire, which will automatically result in buildup for a new war.

The west never understood that compromises are interpreted as contempt for weakness inviting more attacks.

R-W D-S said...

When the electorate prefers suicide to self-preservation it proves the malevolent influence of the media and cultural elites. The political, financial and cultural elites are all internationalist in their allegiance. From their penthouses and gated communities and chauffer driven limosines they believe they are insulated from the coming apocalypse. And as sure as night follows day it is coming. Hundreds of millions will perish in the conflagration because the decision makers refuse to do what is necessary to prevent it now. As long as the apple-cart of international commerce and privileged wealth is not upset, they think any situation is manageable. Up to and including dire existential threats. All of us here know that the totalitarian barbarity that calls itself Islam is a very real gun pointed at our heads with millions of fanatical adherents itching to pull the trigger. But the ignorant masses are spoon-fed the pablum of "religion of peace" and "tiny minority of extremists" by the sycophantic media and duplicitious apologists. Baron, I have wept for America, but more for my children than those among us that would sleep-walk us to our own destruction. My only hope for our future is martial law in this country and utter destruction of our external enemies.

Fabian Pascal said...

Bingo. And led by the french whores:

An Unexpected European Initiative on Mideast Peace

I guess the moslem revolt has bit Chriac's ass enough for him to be really concerned about the palestinians.

Fabian Pascal said...

r-w d-s,

The problem with martial law is that you cannot guarantee it will destroy your enemy and is quite likely to destroy you instead.

R-W D-S said...

Do you trust the ignorant and easily misled electorate? Do you trust the craven and power mad political class? Do you trust the traitorous and manipulative media? Do you trust the secular, post-modern, anti-American academic institutions? Do you trust the clueless and entrenched bureaucratic class as exemplified by the FBI, CIA and State Department? Do you think that, from this morass of mediocrity and group-think, that a leader and movement will arise to set things right or should we just shuffle along with the rest of the lemmings to the edge of the cliff? There exists in this country only one institution with the power and proven commitment to American nationalism, and that is the military. Martial Law is not unprecedented in war time.

ziontruth said...


I've been reading your comments here for some time, and they're, might I say, unhelpful. I'm not saying you should shut up, but I am, however, saying you should think a bit the message you're conveying. Specifically, two points:

1. You're engaging in victimology, an art and craft which should be limited to the enemy.
2. You're bringing more doom and gloom than the minimum necessary to wake people up from a Politically Correct stupor.

Face it, Zerosumgame: those who love us don't need to hear about the Holocaust, and those who hate us don't want to. Basing our claim to the Land of Israel upon historical Jewish suffering has been a mistake. Those of the Muslims who don't deny the Holocaust say, "OK, but why should we be punished by what others did to you?" (regarding the "occupation" of "Palestine"). On the Left, the narrative of "Zionist colonials dispossessing the indigenous Palestinians" has taken such a hold that any appeal of ours to past Jewish suffering is silenced by them saying, "Yes, but now you Jews are the ones in the role of oppressors inflicting suffering on others". We have reached such a state because the practice of victimology has been turned against us by those who are more skillful at its use (the Muslims). The response I advocate: change of strategy. Victimology is for Muslims and Leftists; we in the Judeo-Christian West are better off making our case from the standpoint that our civilization is superior to the Islamic one in every way--that we are prosperous because we have the True G-d of Righteousness on our side and because we make an effort to prosper, while the Muslims (and Leftists) are stuck in their mire because of their covenant with death and because of their self-pity.

And you're saying we're so likely to lose. How can you even assume such a thing? The war has barely started. There is also the danger that, if too many people on our side believe in your vision of doom and gloom, it will weaken their hearts and thus become self-fulfilling. Warning is appropriate, but defeatism is not.

Please consider changing your attitude. For the Jewish people's sake if not for all of us here.

Fabian Pascal said...

r-w d-s,

It's precisely because i don't trust any of them that I don't trust martial law either. Who do you think will impose it? If nothing rational exists among those, from where will the rational knight on a white horse emerge to impose benign martial law, finish the enemies and then magically rise a rational society out of ignorance, greed and inability to reason?

The only way out of current problems is a proper educational system based on knowledge and reason.

Don't hold your breath. All the revival of religiosity in the world--from all directions, not just islamic--are a direct result of the collapse of the educational systems all around.

Fabian Pascal said...

Having lost the economic battle, the so-called US left is looking for a new cause. And instead of choosing the obvious enemy -- the corporation --they're fooling themselves that the new "oppressed" are the islamic people, in large part by blindly applying marxist ideology to cultures where it does not fit, and which they are ignorant about

It's a pity that an experiment cannot be done to demonstrate to the US "left" what the islamo-fascists will do to them once they establish their caliphate. They will realize it allright, but when it's too late.

Fabian Pascal said...

Bingo 2. Was I right or was I right:

Cease Fire

Now watch what happens.

Fabian Pascal said...

God of Righteousness? There is no such animal in the scriptures. Besides, it's a contradiction in terms. See his real characteristics as listed by Dawkins.

"My god is better than your god" is the root of all evil and the root of all evil in the 1st place.

Whatever the west has achieved to date derives precisely from having escaped its gods. But it looks like it too is returning to its gods, throwing us back 100s of years.

Fabian Pascal said...

Oh, jeez, I am so relieved now.

Is He the one who made Olmert PM, Peretz DM and Halutz IDF chief? Figures.

(BTW: When I said He does not exist in the scriptures, I did not mean that he is 'not called' that, but that he ISNT's that, whatever He is called. The reference to Dawkins' listing should have been a hint.)

Fabian Pascal said...

I came across these two items which are enlightening in their own way under the rubric Us and Them.

Why They Hate Us

Muslims Riot Over Spelling of 'Koran' in U.S. Media
by Scott Ott

(2005-05-17) -- As many as 25 people died and dozens more were injured during riots in Afghanistan today which erupted over what one Muslim cleric called "the U.S. media's desecration-by-mispelling" of the name of Islam's most holy book.

Indeed, American editors have failed to reach consensus on how to render the holy book's name. Some spell it with a 'K' others with a 'Q' and -- perhaps most offensive to Muslim sensibilities -- some insert a meaningless apostrophe in the middle of the word.

"They're mocking our religion and our God by using a wide variety of spellings for the holy book," said the unnamed imam. "Journalists and editors are the stormtroopers of America's war on Islam. They're trying to humiliate and intimidate us with alternate and phonetic spellings, sowing seeds of doubt about the book Allah gave to the Prophet. We will fill the streets with the blood of the infidels and anyone else who gets in the way."

The latest casualities followed the deaths of 17 people in weekend riots over an inaccurate story in Newsweek magazine about a report that U.S. military guards had flushed a Koran down a toilet at the Guantanamo Bay detention facility.

The cleric, who requested anonymity due to the sensitivity of the issue, denied that the latest uprising on the Arab street was simply part of the 'regularly-scheduled annual riot season'.

"Our previously-scheduled generic riots have been preempted by these special, issue-oriented violent mobs," he said. "Americans have nobody to blame but themselves for inflaming the passions of these peaceful religious people."

ziontruth said...

fabian pascal, you wrote:

"'My god is better than your god' is the root of all evil and the root of all evil in the 1st place."

If I recall correctly, Karl Marx's "Our no god is better than all gods" led to a few millions killed. Glass houses and stones, you know...

And as usual, the post of mine I link to for those who think like you:

Heirs of Voltaire?

G-d bless.

Sissy Willis said...

I'm still praying -- like hope, not a strategy, but I'm desperate -- for a miracle. Perhaps something that Papa Ratzi will say in Turkey this week will remove the scales from people's eyes. Not likely, I know.

Fabian Pascal said...

Lenin and hitler regimes were NOT religionless. they had their own religions. the latter's was a bastardized interpretation of marxism, the former's fascism, arianism and the holy grail. Religion does not have to havea regular god.

Anyway, over the human history atheists would not touch the death and torture for which religions are responsible. Just read the bible.

Go ahead pray for a miracle. That's the best religion can do.

Fabian Pascal said...

BTW, no atheist tortured, maimed and killed IN THE NAME OF ATHEISM per se. It so happened that they did not believe in god, but it was not atheism that drove them. In the name of whom do the faithful operate?

Sissy Willis said...

fabian pascal: You may be surprised to know that I, like the late Oriana Fallaci, am an atheist who agrees deep in my gut with Benedict XVI about the gathering Eurabian storm:

When an atheist and a pope think the same things