Monday, February 25, 2008

When did the United States become the Islamic Republic of America?

"The Repetition of History"
by Theodore G. Karakostas


We are very fortunate in our readers. They supply us with information we wouldn’t get easily in other forms. In this case, the essayist is Theodore G. Karakostas and the subject is one he knows well: the roots of the current crisis in Serbia and Kosovo.

But this post is much more than that. Mr. Karakostas opens the door to the long history of the area, and the bloody borders created there by the influx of Islam so long ago. He says:

I would like to express how much I like your website. I am a writer coming from an Eastern Orthodox-Byzantine point of view and a Greek American and would like to share such an assessment regarding the new Islamist success in Kosovo over the past week.

And here is his provocative essay:


In November 1979, Iranian militants seized the American embassy and took hostages for 444 days. Throughout the 1980’s, the Iranians launched a variety of attacks on American targets (as in Lebanon) and sponsored terrorism. During the 1990’s Al Qaeda attacked the United States in Somalia, Saudi Arabia, and bombed the American embassies in Africa. On September 11, 2001, Al Qaeda attacked the United States on its own soil.

The reaction of the United States has been to destroy Yugoslavia. Osama Bin Laden, Ayman Al Zawahri, and Al Qaeda remain at large. Al Qaeda in fact, according to Youssef Bodansky, terrorism expert and biographer of Osama Bin Laden established bases in Kosovo and Bosnia. In 2006, Muslims from Kosovo were implicated in the plot to bomb Fort Dix in New Jersey. The reaction of the United States is to ignore the very spirit of the alleged war on terror and to approve the establishment of a terrorist Islamic State in the Balkans at the expense of the Serbs who were allies of the United States in both World Wars.

When did the United States become the Islamic Republic of America? My own idea is that the United States drifted toward pro-Islamic sympathies when it became involved with the Turkish nationalists between 1919 and 1922. Today, many of the Western backers of independence for Kosovo were also those States who armed and supported Mustafa Kemal and the Turkish nationalists in Asia Minor. Italy, France, and Great Britain have extended immediate recognition to Kosovo.

The burning of Smyrna in 1922In 1919, the Italians were the first European power to arm Mustafa Kemal in Asia Minor. According to Marjorie Housepian Dobkin in her brilliantly researched “Smyrna 1922 the Destruction of a City” the Greek Army might have destroyed Mustafa Kemal’s Army had it not been for the intervention of the Italians and the British who according to Dobkin, rescued Kemal from destruction. The connection between the betrayal of the Greek cause in Asia Minor, and the betrayal of the Serbs today reflects the continuing evolution of Western policy which is in effect pro-Islamic.

The Greek-Serbian alliance in the Balkan Wars drove the Ottoman Empire out of the Balkans. These achievements are being systematically undermined today. Kosovo was liberated during the Balkan Wars, and now the change of borders there challenges the outcome for Greek achievements as well. The Ottomans who were defeated by the Greeks and the Serbs get the last laugh! The Ottomanization of the Balkans is under way.

The genocide at SmyrnaTurkey’s recognition of Kosovo was to be expected. The Turks are reestablishing links with their former Muslim subjects and expanding their influence in the region at the expense of Greece and Serbia. In 1922, in the aftermath of the Genocide and mass slaughter of Greeks at the City of Smyrna, the Greeks wanted to make a last stand in Eastern Thrace, and pondered the possibility of entering Constantinople. The Greeks were told in no uncertain terms by the three European Powers that if they entered Constantinople, they would not be permitted to remain there. Ultimately, over 1,000,000 Greek Orthodox Christians were ethnically cleansed from Asia Minor with the full cooperation of the Americans and the three European Powers.

The burning of a church in KosovoDuring the 1990’s, the Serbs were ethnically cleansed from Krajinna by the Nazi armies of Croatia and from Bosnia. They have also been ethnically cleansed from Kosovo since 1999 with their Churches and Monasteries being destroyed. In both Asia Minor and Yugoslavia, the Western powers were present when the Christians were slaughtered by the Muslims. Today, NATO and the European Union talk of protecting the rights of Serbs in Kosovo, and of maintaining “peacekeepers” even while Serbs have been lynched, murdered, beaten, and terrorized into leaving under the auspices of the “peacekeepers”.

During the fall of 2007, a resolution in the House of Representatives was introduced which would have recognized the Armenian Genocide. The Bush administration lobbied against it, and intimidated many of the Democrats who supported it, into withdrawing their support. The extermination of a Christian people by an Islamic government was not recognized in order to placate the Islamic successors of the Genocidal regime! One would think that Islamists were dictating American policies.
- - - - - - - - -
Over two million Christians in the Sudan have been slaughtered by the Islamists. The Coptic Christians of Egypt have suffered relentless discrimination and persecution by Islamic extremists. Saudi Arabia prohibits the practice of Christianity. While Monasteries in Kosovo are being destroyed, the Saudis are subsidizing the construction of Mosques in Kosovo, which fly the Saudi flag. In the struggle between Armenia and Azerbaijan over Nagorno-Karabakh, the West is backing the Muslims.

Then there are the benefits of European multiculturalism. The European Constitution does not mention Christianity (a fact which outraged the Orthodox Church of Greece). Various feminists in the European Parliament have suggested that the Monastic Republic of Mount Athos should be compelled to lift its prohibition on the entry of women onto its hallowed grounds. This Orthodox Monastic community established on the Holy Mountain of Athos which is dedicated to the Theotokos (Mother of God) does not allow women in order to specifically honor the Theotokos. The Orthodox Church of Greece has bitterly resisted the attempts by the European Union to undermine Greek traditions and to impose secularism on Greek society.

Dr. Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of CanterburyContrast these radical anti-Christian stances with the recent statement of the Archbishop of Canterbury who suggested that Sharia law should be allowed to coexist with Civil laws in Great Britain. It is not ironic that the capitals of Europe are being thoroughly Islamicized, or that they are being held hostages (the riots in France 2005) by extremists, considering the extent to which Eastern Christians have been sacrificed throughout the twentieth century. Gone are the days of the Austro-Hungarian Empire which saved Europe from the Ottoman Empire in 1539 and 1683.

A Rock Concert in Croatia recently received a great deal of publicity because the band in question proceeded to give the Nazi salute. The wars that were waged against the Serbs during the 1990’s were waged by a government of Nazi sympathizers on the one hand, and two Islamic governments in league with Al Qaeda on the other. The 800,000 Serbs that were slaughtered by the pro-Nazi Croats and Muslims during the Second World War were entirely ignored by western media.

The Republic of Cyprus is another Christian country struggling to survive. Over 500 Greek Orthodox Churches have been destroyed or converted into Mosques. From Cyprus to Kosovo, Christianity is being eradicated and the destroyers in both cases are being embraced by Europe and the United States. The Greek Orthodox in Constantinople are on the verge of extinction. The betrayal of the Greek Christians of Constantinople since the 1940’s represents another heartbreaking tragedy in the history of the Orthodox Church during the twentieth century.

Turkey today is notoriously anti-American. Islamic fundamentalism is faring quite well despite the assurance of American and European officials that Turkey is a “secular, democratic” country. Ordinary Turks have become enraged by American policies toward Iraq and the Palestinians out of Islamic solidarity, but Ankara’s public relations people have successfully convinced many Americans that Turkish-American relations were fine until Nancy Pelosi introduced the Armenian Genocide Resolution in Congress. When the Iraq war was launched in 2003, Turks cursed the United States for attacking a Muslim country long before the Armenian Genocide Resolution was introduced.

Western sacrifices of Christians preceded the pro-Turkish policies undertaken between 1919 and 1922. During the nineteenth century, Tsarist Russia took up the cause of the Christians of the Ottoman Empire. In 1853, Great Britain and France occupied Greece to prevent Athens from aligning with Moscow in the Crimean War. In 1878, the Russians had Constantinople in their sights, but the Ottomans were protected by London and Paris.

During the 1870’s, the slaughter of the Bulgarians by the Ottoman Turks was widely publicized. As the nineteenth century concluded, the Armenians, Assyrians, and Asia Minor Greeks came under extreme persecution by the Ottomans. International conferences were convened by the three great powers of Great Britain, France, and Russia. Only the Russians were interested in protecting the Christians, as in Kosovo today. The strategic interest in the Ottoman Empire by London and Paris prevented the Russians from interfering.

Kosovo independenceThis essay is a response to the events being undertaken in Kosovo and the Balkans today. It is extremely difficult to believe that in the age of Al Qaeda, the Great Powers maintain an irrational hatred of the Serbs and the Russians. The essay began by noting the various terrorist attacks on the United States. The Serbs have done nothing to the United States or the Europeans, and have found themselves being mercilessly deprived of their ancestral homelands and holy places.

The Western governments have chosen to restore the heritage of the Ottoman Empire in the Balkans. Several years ago, then Assistant Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz praised Turkey for its treatment of minorities! In 1204, the Knights of the Fourth Crusade destroyed Constantinople and opened the door for the Ottomans. What the Crusaders did physically to the Christian East, the Western powers are doing intellectually by suppressing and rewriting the history of the Christian East.

The fall of ConstantinopleDuring the Seventh Century, the Emperor Constantine V of Constantinople successfully defended his Capital from the onslaught of Muslim invaders. He successfully defended the West as well as his own Empire. During the tenth century, Emperor Nikephoras Phokas took the offensive against the Arabs after three hundred and thirty years of being on the defensive and liberated most of Syria! In 1453, Emperor Constantinos Palaiologos died in battle defending his City against the Ottomans.

How tragic that the legacy of Christian Byzantium whose Emperors took up the fight against the forerunners of Osama Bin Laden has been cast aside as the model for the Balkans in favor of the Ottoman Turks who were the perpetrators of terrorism and Genocide. This is exactly what the sacrifice of Orthodox Serbia represents. In our own day, the Russians again represent the aspirations of Orthodox Christians, and it is to be hoped they will help save Kosovo and the Balkans.

65 comments:

Cobra said...

So, So true.
It is very sad, and the only explanation is the old plan of subverting the Christian European people by the "fellow travelers" in all different incarnations, including neo-conservatism.

John Sobieski said...

Bush is in the pockets of the Muslims. The Muslims and their dhimmi apologists dressed in 'expert' garb tell him what to think and do. Such a fool.

I am dismayed at how the leaders of Western civilization are so ignorant, so consumed by multiculturalism that they cannot see.

We are witnessing the destruction of the West by its political leaders and the apathy of the masses. Us few who see what our leaders are really doing cannot stop them.

The Poster Formerly Known as Gordon said...

Needless to say, I have more than a few problems with TGK's essay.

Here are just a few of them, having to do with factual errors in the essay:

In 2006, Muslims from Kosovo were implicated in the plot to bomb Fort Dix in New Jersey.

A minor quibble, but only one of the conspirators was from Kosovo. The others were actually immigrants from Macedonia, to the south.

The reaction of the United States is to ignore the very spirit of the alleged war on terror and to approve the establishment of a terrorist Islamic State in the Balkans at the expense of the Serbs who were allies of the United States in both World Wars.

The government of Kosovo has not been proven to be of a "terrorist Islamic" nature. Repeating a lie over and over again doesn't make it true.

Ultimately, over 1,000,000 Greek Orthodox Christians were ethnically cleansed from Asia Minor with the full cooperation of the Americans and the three European Powers.

Technically true, but this was actually a population exchange, as 500,000 Turks and other Muslims were ethnically cleansed from Greece, and it was agreed by both nations that the forced transfer of peoples was appropriate.

During the 1990’s, the Serbs were ethnically cleansed from Krajinna by the Nazi armies of Croatia and from Bosnia.

Nazism was eradicated from power in both Croatia and Bosnia in the 1940's. Bosnian Muslims had no part in the ethnic cleansing of Serbs from Krajina in the 1990's. The ethnic cleansing was a direct result of Slobodan Milosevic's and Serbia's war of aggression upon Croatia that it waged in the early 1990's in response to Croatia's declaration of independence from the collapsing Yugoslav federation.

The Republic of Cyprus is another Christian country struggling to survive.

The Greek 2/3 of Cyprus is economically prosperous and was admitted to the EU, hardly the sign of a state "struggling to survive." The Turkish 1/3 seceded with the help of the Turkish Army after the illegal attempt in 1973 by Cypriot coup leaders (who overthrew the elected government) to merge with Greece, also at the time ruled by a vicious military junta. In 2005 a referendum to reunite the country on equitable and fair terms was approved in the Turkish north, but rejected in the Greek south at the instigation of demagogic Greek Cypriot politicians.

And these incorrect facts are, of course, only a surface look at this wildly incorrect article.

Arius said...

There have been multiple arrests in Europe and the UK of terrorists with strong connections into Bosnia and Kosovo. Kosovo is most assuredly an evolving terrorist Islamic State in the Balkans.

Germany with US backing actively supported and encouraged the Islamic jihad (KLA) and its ethnic cleansing and mass murder of Serbs, Jews, and Roma, and it supported the reemergence of fascist Croatia and its cleansing of the Serb Krajina.

In two world wars Germany allied itself with and supported Islamic jihadists and mass murder.
- In WW1 it encouraged its allies the Turks to mass murder the Armenian Christians.
- In WW2 it mass murdered Jews, supported fascist Croatia and fascist Albania and their mass murder of Jews, Serbs, and Roma, and allied with the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.
We should expect more of the same from Germany in the twenty-first century.

Milosevic and Serbia had nothing to do with any supposed war of aggression on Croatia. It was quite the reverse. How could there have been any Yugoslavian federal army aggression on Croatia when the federal army soldiers did not carry any ammunition? It was a phony war that the Croatians played up for maximum propaganda effect. Fascist Croatia, with US and German support, committed the largest ethnic cleansing in the breakup of Yugoslavia.

America is a declining world power that has cleared the way for the emergence of Germany and Iran as world powers, the resurgence of fascism and anti-Semitism in Europe, the success of the Islamic jihad in the Balkans, and a coming titanic conflict. American foreign policy at best can be described as anti-American and anti-Western.

Fellow Peacekeeper said...

Mostly fine essay, execpt for "Nazi armies of Croatia" the "an irrational hatred of .... Russians".

While the Serbs have a bone to pick with the Croats, the reverse is also true. Putting the Catholic Croats in one category as the Ottoman Muslims is not helpfull.

As for the Russians, their behaviour has been consistently abominable towards every nation they have ever encountered. If Serbia and Greece have got a fair deal it is because they don't suffer from a common border with Russia. If they had, they would have long since been reduced to a peonified semi-Russified mess like Belarus is and Ukraine was.

But agreed, Kosovo is however one of the rare cases when Russia is doing the right thing.

kahaneloyalist said...

FP, the Croats allied with the Nazis during WWII and are openly proud of this, they feel not the slightest guilt or regret over their actions. The Croats are just as rotten as the Muslims, and fought by their side against the Serbs during the Balkan wars of the 90's.

Afonso Henriques said...

Well TGK, you are right. I agree with you, and 95% of what you said is a sad truth.
I too praise Serbia for being what it is now, what it represesnts. It represents Europe non the less, the las European country in the world, or so it seems.
I loved to see two hundred thousand young men torching the U.S. embassy and protesting vehemently. Two hundred thousand young men, in a country of less than 7 million is something big. The future of Europe lies in the Serbian youth, or so I hope.
My admiration for Serbia is beyound doubt.

But, TGK, I think your writing had some flaws.

1)You claim that the West aids the muslims against the Europeans in the Balkans, or that the West has been helping the muslims long since. It is just wrong, I mean, what you say is not a bunch of lies but it is only a small stone in a long road. The West has historically helped you, you just can not say the opposite. Of course, errors were commited, but in the long term we've helped you people.

2)You seem to have a especial hatred towards "the true Rome". You also seem to miss "your own Rome". That is just impossible, man. No way Greece will get Constantiople again, it is the third biggest European city, filled with Turks. If you want to recover "your Rome" you will have to conquere it by ethnic cleansing, otherwise, it is no good for Greece. Istambul has the same population that all Greece, but they are Turks. Do you really want your country to be like that? Again? The fact says it all.

3)"During the 1990’s, the Serbs were ethnically cleansed from Krajinna by the Nazi armies of Croatia and from Bosnia. They have also been ethnically cleansed from Kosovo since 1999 with their Churches and Monasteries being destroyed."

Now this is really stupid.
Why on earth do you call the Croatian Nazis? Yes, they were Nazis, so what? I feel that "hatred towards the true Rome" here. I think you just do not like Catholics, it's kind of racist, isn't it?
Croatians have all the right to their own State. Atrocitties were commited by both sides but after all, it was a "fair war" if there is any.
Concerning the Serbs being ethnically cleansed in Kosovo since 1999, I will add that when the Albanian state first emerged, in 1912, it was just 50% Albanian, but now, it is almost 100% Albanian. Terror sometimes seems to compensate. Actually, even today, the Greek government claims that 10% of the Albanians, those living in the South, are actually Greeks living in the Greek "Epiro".

4)"The wars that were waged against the Serbs during the 1990’s were waged by a government of Nazi sympathizers on the one hand, and two Islamic governments in league with Al Qaeda on the other."

And you keep crying Nazi towards the Croatians, they are not Nazis, they are Croatians, that is really, really stupid.
It was a just war, and Croatia won it relativeley fairly. They have all the rights and legitimation one can imagine to their own state, leave them alone!
Who cares if they were Nazis or Commies? They were fighting for their people and for the right of being governed according to their traditions without fear of opression. I admire Serbia much more than I admire Croatia, but I still want Croatia alive and I want it to proser with all its Nazis and Communists, long live the Croatian people!

Finally, I want to say that what the European powers (specially France) and the U.S. of A. have done to Serbia last years is terrible and deplorable. Still, it is not irrational, as one can see by the Bosnian and Kosovar flags, it all has the rational head of our beautifull European Union. They buy Nations, and it seems that in Europe, only Serbia is not for sell. It makes me proud to be European when one has a country like Serbia to look up, it embarasses me to be a European when I see all the Civilisation going down as if we have never heard about "The fall of (the truth) Rome".
The Serbian people seems to be a proud and legitimate heir to Palaiologos. This time, we may win. Just wait some more decades...

It ain't be pretty, but it will be a bloody interesting mess! The WW2 will look like nothing compaired to what is to come...
Regards to you all.

Stopmakingsense said...

When did the United States become the Islamic republic of America?.

November. - in the year of our Lord, - sorry Allah, - 2008.

Just after they "submitted" themselves to Obama and elected a shady former Muslim, (so sue me) as President of the good ole U.S. of A.

And in the words of Bachman Turner Overdrive - "You ain't seen nothing yet".... "You ain't been around".

Afonso Henriques said...

The ex Gorden said:

"A minor quibble, but only one of the conspirators was from Kosovo. The others were actually immigrants from Macedonia, to the south."

Who cares! They were Albanians! Kosovar and Macedonian muslims are all Albanians! Specially, thay are not living in Albania. I think that we should treat them for what they are. They are Albanians, Kosovars do not exist. But, if they existed, they would for sure be Serbs. So it is the Kosovar (or Albanian) fault.

"The government of Kosovo has not been proven to be of a "terrorist Islamic" nature. Repeating a lie over and over again doesn't make it true."

And was it Sadam's Iraq? Come on Gordon! Are you kidding us? I bet everybody here will have trouble to classify the Taliban's Afghanistan to be of "terrorist islamic nature". Fundamentalistic? Yes. Terrorrist... is just to strong. Here we have a popular saying: "When one does not want to see, he turns his head away". You are turning your eyes away from Kosovo so that you can not see the reality. Go read some Fjordman essays about the issue, they are quiet ilustrative.

"Technically true, but this was actually a population exchange"
Well, technically true, but if one notice that the Greeks were living in Asia Minor, at least, from 3000 years ago and that the Turks entered Greeks as opressive soldiers and colonisers, one wonders where your definition of right and wrong stands.
Actually, can you name an actual Greek city in which happened what happpened in todays Izmir, Turkey?

"The Greek 2/3 of Cyprus is economically prosperous and was admitted to the EU, hardly the sign of a state "struggling to survive." The Turkish 1/3 seceded with the help of the Turkish Army after the illegal attempt in 1973 by Cypriot coup leaders (who overthrew the elected government) to merge with Greece, also at the time ruled by a vicious military junta. In 2005 a referendum to reunite the country on equitable and fair terms was approved in the Turkish north, but rejected in the Greek south at the instigation of demagogic Greek Cypriot politicians."

I've never heared nothing like this. I am curious now. Can you please provide some sources.
The version of History I heard consisted in Cyprus BEING A GREEK ISLAND BEFORE ROMULO AND REMOLO EVER THOUGHT OF SUCKING THE MILK OUT OF A WOLF'S TIT.
I heared that then, the Ottomans atacked and conquered the Island and opressed the Greeks until it got liberated and became British. Than the Greeks of Cyprus (the clear majority, much more than 2/3) gained independence. In 1974 Turkey atacks the Island (again) and send colonists to the Northern third of the Island. And yes, Cyprus is struggling to survive, at least as a Greek entity.

Arius said:
"America is a declining world power that has cleared the way for the emergence of Germany and Iran as world powers, the resurgence of fascism and anti-Semitism in Europe, the success of the Islamic jihad in the Balkans, and a coming titanic conflict."

America is not that bad by now. Germany and Iran? World Powers? And China and the U.S. are what? Universal Powers? I think you meant "regional" instead of "world".

"the resurgence of fascism and anti-Semitism in Europe"
What do you mean by the resurgency of fascism in Europe? I don't get it...

Afonso Henriques said...

Fellow Peackeeper said:

"If Serbia and Greece have got a fair deal it is because they don't suffer from a common border with Russia. If they had, they would have long since been reduced to a peonified semi-Russified mess like Belarus is and Ukraine was.
But agreed, Kosovo is however one of the rare cases when Russia is doing the right thing."

This is all American bestiality in action. This is what makes me wonder weather if Obama does really have a chance.

This commenter permisse is based on "everything that comes from Russia is bad".

And as so, he is very, but very surprised with Kosovo.

Fellow Peacekeeper, it is not that way. You can not say that one is good and the other is bad. It is just not how your God made the world.

Russia is Historically a big power, and its relation with its neighbours has not been much different from those of Ingland and Ireland or Germans and Eastern Europe, Swedes and Finns, Castilla (the core of Spain) and the rest of the Peninsula. Actually it was.
Russia has for centuries been the "defender of the Slavs" and has aided the Christians in South East Europe against the muslims.
Communism is a bad, evil, devilish thong, agreed. But Russians are not and never were Communists, they were Russians, and they lived under a Communist regime. Please, try to understand how flawed it is to say the opposite.

You made a big mistake by saying that "Belarus and Ukraine have been reduced to a peonified semi-Russified..."

First, go search in History some Bielorrusian people or entity. It simple does not exist. Bielorrusians are Russians. The same for Ukraine, at least Eastern Ukraine.
Let's hope that one day big Russia will hold all the lands that rightly belongs to her. And unite the Russian peoples. Any Bielorrussian and most of the Ukranians are much more Russians then the Chechens or the peoples of Siberia.
Think about it. Russia is our ally, or so it should. We shall not atack Russia for no reasons, as Americans like doing all the time.
THE COLD WAR IS OVER, YOU WON(?) THAT, NO MOVE ON!

Ypp said...

I believe, America sees its mission as destruction of the traditional European order. It is not that America is deliberately pro-muslim, but it is anti-traditional. Actually, it encourages Europe to compete with muslims in a kind of a "honest sparring", on the terms that are not favorable to Europe. This sparring Europe may well loose. However, what Europe is doing - pretending as if nothing is happening, while quietly surrendering to Islam, is no good either.

Bela said...

alfonso enrique you are sputtering off half baked nonsense so forgive me if I am contradicting your take on the Russians and Russia. "Fellow peacekeeper" is correct with his analysis as far as Russia goes: Hungary was under Soviet civilian (by proxy puppets) and military occupation from 1945 until 1990 for almost half of a century so I have plenty of experience in this regard.
(FYI Hungarians are not Slavic people.)
The subject is too big to tackle here so try to comprehend this:
Russia is well endowed with Great Artists, Writers, Musicians, Painters but on societal level it's a brutal, primitive, Asian despotism.
They don't know any other form of existence...rough stuff in deed.
Ask a Pole, a Czech, Rumanian or anybody who lived under Russian yoke and you will hear an avalanche of hateful curses.
Hungarians and Serbs hate each other but I am American and I support the Serbs.

The Poster Formerly Known as Gordon said...

Afonso, try perusing this article: http://countrystudies.us/cyprus/55.htm , to learn about the events of 1974, which confirms what I wrote.

In addition, note that the Turkish invasion resulted in the island's EXISTING Turkish population fleeing to the north, and Greek population fleeing to the south. There were no Turkish "settlers."

Unless you consider people who migrated to Cyprus from the 16th to the 19th centuries to be "settlers." In which case, do you also want the Scotch-Irish Protestants in Northern Ireland evicted?

Anh said...

That is nothing wrong or irrational about fear and hatred of the Serb and the Russian, the Russian and the Serb had course millions of live and the past and will again.

The Serb and the Russia are no better then the Muslim. The Breakup of Yugo is Europe failure to hand the issue not America. In a perfect world America should have let the Slav slaughter the Muslim, and America can used that as an excuse to wipe the Serb off the face of the planet and see if the Russan would be stupid enough to interfere in the 90's before the rush of Western technology let the Russian get to the oil that them dream of being big bad mother Russian again.

As much as I hate the Muslim, the Serb are not friend of ours.

Croat555 said...

kahaneloyalist, it is your lies that are rotten here.

Croatia did not ally with Nazis, but Italy did, as well as Finland, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria and other states. Germany invaded and occupied Yugoslavia, state that Croatia was a part of at the time. They installed puppet Croatian government from the Ustaše movement, prior to the moment something that could be described as Croatian version of IRA. The puppet state that was created was split in half in control of Germany and Italy, and Croatian antifascist partisan movement was present from the beginning, it was strong and it fought Germans and Italians as well as their Croatian marionettes. Similar puppet states were established all across occupied Europe, for example in France and Norway.

How is it then that Bulgarians, Norwegians or French are never claimed to be rotten Nazis, only Croats do?

As for fighting with Muslims against Serbs - it was Serbs who begun the war, they attacked both Croatia and Croats and Muslims in Bosnia and Herzegovina. So yes, hello? Yes, we fought against Serbs alongside the Muslims, until they backstabed us.

As for shallow babbling that poses as provocative essay and its obloquy of Nazi armies of Croatia that ethnically cleansed the Serbs, Croatia was led to independence by the very same people that fought Nazis in WW2. Our Chief of General Staff was guy whose father and both brothers were killed by Ustaše. And know this - we were left by our Western brothers to be destroyed, but instead we won. And when we finally crushed Serbian occupation, God smiled and was glad, because his justice was delivered.

Eurytan said...

A number of interesting statements from the Gordon that was. We are told that there are no Turkish settlers in Cyprus. One has to presume that the roughly 120,000 settlers imported from Anatolia since the 1974 invasion are non existent. But apparently Turkey's own statistics that can be found for example here http://cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=30725&cat_id=1 must be wrong... since there are no settlers.

One might find it a bit interesting to learn as well that there was no ethnic cleansing and genocide against the Christian population of Anatolia in 1914-1922 either and the 1 million Greek refugees that reached Greece in the months after August 1922 did so in some short of orderly fashion as part of the exchange of populations stipulated under the terms of the treaty of Lausanne. Presumably there is nothing odd in the fact that the protocol on the exchange of populations was signed post facto, accepting the situation in the ground and stipulating the movement of the muslim population of Greece to Turkey after the Greek population had been forcibly evicted from Anatolia. I suppose we are also to presume that several hundred thousand Anatolian Greeks in 1914-1922 must have sportaneusly disappeared along with the Armenians and the Assyrians also sportaneusly disappearing in the same timeframe. The massacres, the Amele Taburu and the death marches of the male population wouldn't have anything to do with that any more that the Amaseia steam baths and the death marches to the desert had anything to do with killing Armenians. Smyrna of course must have burned on its own, the Turkish army wouldn't have anything to do with it or the 70,000 christians killed while it shacked the city.

Cobra said...

Afonso Henriques, you are dead wrong!
Russians are a nightmare to any un-lucky neighbour!
They are very uncivilized, imperialistic, and quite honestly a menace!
What are they doing now is not for their love for Serbia but for cold calculation of having a beachhead in the Balkan region...

Bela said...

Croat555 It's well known fact that Hungarians were the last willing satellite henchmen of Nazi Germany and they committed despicable atrocities against civilian population in Serbia, Slovakia, Rumania and in the Soviet Union.
Today it's prohibited by law to paraise Fascism in Hungary.

Please explain these youtube videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Gj4kk8BF7Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jh5j_mmB8Y

Eurytan said...

A cynic might notice that all... the poor victims of Russian imperialism had this odd tendency of invading Russia with abandon every time the had the chance before the Russians got into the habit of returning the favour. Even the Poles who generally have a much more legitimate cause against the Russians than anyone else took Moscow in 1610 and were into the "lets grab chunks off Russia" game till the combination of Russian growth and Polish internal trouble turned the tables.

turn said...

There are high passions here that few Americans can understand. As a rule, Americans tend to get over our conflicts with other nations and people.

To me, the most interesting comment was by ypp:
"I believe, America sees its mission as destruction of the traditional European order. It is not that America is deliberately pro-muslim, but it is anti-traditional. Actually, it encourages Europe to compete with muslims in a kind of a "honest sparring", on the terms that are not favorable to Europe."

I don't have an advanced degree in European history but I know quite a bit. Please, tell me what traditional European order is. Is it the French and Polish alliance against the Prussians?

No order has ever existed in Europe long enough to become a tradition.

I would like to read ypp's reasoning as to America encouraging Europe to compete with Muslims. Maybe it is because we fought your wars for you that has reduced European men to the productivity of Muslims so that they can now spar with people who should be able to eat them for breakfast.

If these above expressions from some European commenters are indicative of your national and historical grudges you will fail to stop the Islamification of Europe because of your inability to fight as a united front--a theme I'm getting weary of repeating at GoV.

VinceP1974 said...

I too found this comment by ypp to be interesting:

"I believe, America sees its mission as destruction of the traditional European order. It is not that America is deliberately pro-muslim, but it is anti-traditional. Actually, it encourages Europe to compete with muslims in a kind of a "honest sparring", on the terms that are not favorable to Europe.""

To actually think there's a coherent plan behind our foriegn policy madness is to give them too much credit, really.

Lets see who all the players are:

The State Department: These folks suck at the teat of Arab oil... they have ever since oil was discovered there. Most people would be surprised to know that the State Department was almost a client agency of Christian American missionaries to the middle east. All that changed with the Wars , the desperate need for oil, and Arabia being the few places that had it abundently.

The CIA: Never competent to begin with because our national heritage is not compatible with a truly secret agency. Totally destroyed by the Democratic Party since the 1970s.

The Department of Defense: The agency of last resort. Fill of officers (both Active and Retired) who think they're politicains or diplomats or PR people.

Congress: Worthless. The opposite of Progress.

The Democratic Party: The most self-absorbed narssicist group of people in the country. Completely oblivious to the world situation and completely obssessed with its own power.

The Republican party: Somewhat aware that the world isn't a pretty place. Claims to stand for a pretty broad sweeping philosophy called Conservative (American). Always inept at communicating with the peolpe. Takes the 'high road' so many times that the road fell to the ground because eventually gravity forced it too. Is not obssessed with power enough! Completely losses sight of what gets them elected in the first place, which drives thier base away and sends the country back in the hands of people who think the the pressing issues of the day is steroid use by baseball players.

My American government is no chess-player. It's an aberration of our economic strength (which they have squandered). No matter if it's Woodrow Wilson and his 14 Points or whatever (i forget), or Roosevelt at Munich, or Einsenhower not backing UK/France at Suez or Kennedy with Castro or Carter with everything or Clinton with the North Korea and the rise of Islam or Bush II with North Korea, Iran, Palestine, China, Russia, and letting so many Muslims in or our next pathetic President we do stupid things because we have no concept of the long-term global history.

Only now the world is much more savage and barbaric than anyone could have imagined 20 years ago and these mistakes aren't going to be so easily forgetible anymore due to the consequences.

Croat555 said...

bela,

well, good for Magyars, but we here in Croatia are all Nazis. Is that what you asked me to explain? Have I claimed that there were no Nazi puppet regime and collaborators in WW2 Croatia? I have not.

I wrote that Ustaše movement existed prior to WW2, and compared them with IRA. Ustaše were radical nationalist movement founded in 1929, that sought independent Croatia, and aided by Italy they carried out diversions, assassinations and terrorist attacks in Yugoslavia of the time. Among them Nazi Germany found those willing to do their biding. Wife of their leader Pavelić, head honcho of that puppet state was Jewish. I say this to illustrate that they were not really Nazis, but rather hard line nationalists that were willing to do anything to get independent Croatia. But Croatia that they got was anything but independent, and along with that they commited despicable crimes against Jews, Serbs and Croats that opposed them. But there were also others, genuine but shortsighted patriots who miscalculated opportunity for independent Croatia and joined them. That is also true. Still, by far the largest part of nation went with partisan option, led by communists, and German and Italian occupiers and their puppets. There are still few idiots today that see Ustaše as noble fighters for homeland, but I would not label them as Nazis, they are just incredibly stupid nationalists. And they are also so few numbered that only far right party in Croatia (and I would not say that they are far right at all) in recent elections won one (1) seat in parliament.

1389 said...

The last Emperor in the East, Constantine XI Palaiologos, who died heroically battling the invader on the walls of Constantinople, was, in fact... a Serb. His mother was Serbian.

whiskey_199 said...

US Support for Kosovo dates back to Clinton. And is part of the Albright-Holbrooke-Berger belief that "NATO and the EU Must be Saved!!" mantra.

G HW Bush basically took a hands off approach during 1989-91. His team simply did not see it as a vital American interest.

Clinton got suckered in IMHO because he listened too much to the European powers, essentially the French, German and British, who knew they had neither the men nor the will to "do something" about atrocities in the Balkans that were upsetting their people watching atrocities.

Which pointed out to everyone that the EU was an empty project if it could not project force in the Balkans (right next door) to stop atrocities.

To preserve the EU, French, German, and British had to "do something." Which meant calling Clinton for help.

Inertia explains the rest. G W Bush failed to fire the State Dept. and Clinton's pals are still there.

arne said...

Bush and the Saudi connection is ignored. After Gulf War One, Bush Senoir became quite wealthy, perhas in excess of 100 millioin, courtesy of the saudis.

According to Woodward's book, Bush Senoir asked Prince Bandar to teach his son about the World.

On the night of Nine Eleven, Bush Jr. Spent all night alone with his Mentor, who by now was called Bandar Bush.

Saudi Arabia sets Bush's policies:
1. Ramadan is celebrated in the White House.
2. The Empire State Building is bathed in Green for Eid.
3. Bush Senoir changed the immigration laws to encourage Muslim immigration to the US, and since then, their number has increased from 1/2 million to 3 million.
4. The Saudis finance the suicide bombers for Al Queda in Iraq, and supply half of them, But Bush Jr. says nothing.
5. The Saudis issued a fatwa making it a religious obligation to kill Americans, but Bush Jr. says nothing.
6. Bush is now supplying Saudi Arabia with its more advanced weaponry, capable of taking out an aircraft carrier, yet Bush Jr. is unconcerned.
7. Bush now calls the 19 hijackers "misguided kids."
8. Saudi Arabia, with $100 oil is now buying assets in the US, from parts of Disney, Merrill Lynch, Citi Bank, Time Warner, etc., all the better to influence Americans.
9. Saudi Arabia, at American Tax Payer expense, has rewritten American High School Texts about Islam.
10. Soldiers are fobidden to have t-shirs which are offensive to Islam.
11. Saudi Arabia is now financing Middle Eastern Studies Department in every American University of any significance, built 1000 Mosques in the US, and is financing Jihadi eduation all over the US.
12. Bush Jr. closed the CIA unit which was responsible for finding Osama.
13. Israel needed one more week to destroy Hizbollah. Bush Jr. stopped her, and changed the UN resolution from one of enforcement to one of observer, thus permitting Hizbollah to rearm.


It just goes on and on and on. I fully expect Bush one day to stick his face in the dirt, and his arse in the air, and pray to Muhammad and Allah.

Charlemagne said...

Oil. We're discovering that the West will in fact sell its soul to the devil in exchange for oil.
How many barrels of oil buys entry to the West for a Muslim immigrant? How much influence do Saudi petro-dollars buy? How many government officials throughout the West are on the Saudi payroll? How many universities have Saudi endowed chairs? Muslims are not coming to integrate, they are coming to colonize and they are succeeding.

arne said...

As to Clinton, since he left office, his worth has reached perhaps 50 million or more. He gets million dollar speaking fees courtesy of the rich Gulf Arabs. He gets 10 million a year as an investment advisor to Dubai. His library received 15 million from the Saudis.

And don't forget Carter. The Saudis gave his foundation 15 million, and voi la, he wrote an anti-semitic book.

Saudi money is infiltrating the West. This is happening not just in the US, but in Europe as well.

Our leaders are whores, and suck saudi ----.

VinceP1974 said...

Charlemagne said...
Oil. We're discovering that the West will in fact sell its soul to the devil in exchange for oil.
How many barrels of oil buys entry to the West for a Muslim immigrant? How much influence do Saudi petro-dollars buy? How many government officials throughout the West are on the Saudi payroll? How many universities have Saudi endowed chairs? Muslims are not coming to integrate, they are coming to colonize and they are succeeding.

================

This is an excerpt from an article Walid Shoebat wrote;

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Walid/gog.htm


JEREMIAH 50, 51
Jeremiah's prophecy has Babylon invaded by great nations from the north (50:9).

Ken Flemming said, "Jeremiah's prophetic vision of Babylon is clearly linked to John's in Revelation 17 and 18 regarding events that take place during the great tribulation.

Saudi Arabia fits much more then Rome:

1) Saudi Arabia has influence via Oil over the kings of the earth (17:18).

2) Corrupts the nations (17:2; 18:3; 19:2) with Islamic influence.

3) Even Mecca is called "The city of seven hills" today.

4) Persecutes the saints (17:6). Do you see any persecution in Rome today? Yet in Saudi Arabia believers are "be-headed", exactly as Revelation stated "I see the ones who were be-headed ...".

Saudi Arabia is even mentioned in Jeremiah 49:33 (Kedar and Hazor) by NAME which will suffer this destruction. Iran (Persia or Elam) will suffer destruction as well with her (Jeremiah 49:34-39) which fits perfectly with the Gog of Ezekiel 38 since Persia is included. As well as Isaiah 13 fits Jeremiah's prophecies.

Revelation 18:3: "For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies".

Through the abundance of Oil ALL the nations prospered.

Jeremiah 51:9 – "We would have healed Babylon, but she is not healed: forsake her, and let us go every one into his own country".

All laborers in Saudi Arabia are IMPORTED and have no right to obtain citizenship, so they will flea each "into his own country".

Revelation 18:7: "How much she hath glorified herself, and lived in luxury".

No one on earth lives as luxurious as the Saudis – golden shower handles, castles, and great wealth.

Isaiah 47:8 "Therefore hear now this, thou that art given to pleasures". They enjoy so much pleasures, gambling in Vegas and Monte Carlo, and even the King of Saudi Arabia has a private 747 Jumbo Jet with all the facilities in it.

Isaiah 47:10 – "For thou hast trusted in thy wickedness: thou hast said, None seeth me.". The Saudis commit sins and live in pleasures and lusts, yet they think that since it is all hidden, that it is ok, but God sees them.

This cannot be New York since sin is out on the open. This city is sinning in "secret".

Revelation 18:9... And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning.

They will cry for Oil and is no more, since the Oil was the reason they all prosper.

Revelation 18:11 - "And the merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her, for no one buys their merchandise anymore"

Saudi Arabia and the Islamic world will no longer import the products that the West makes.

Isaiah 47:15 - Thus shall they be unto thee with whom thou hast laboured, even thy merchants, from thy youth: they shall wander every one to his quarter; none shall save thee.

All the export companies will take off from Saudi. Saudi lives TOTALLY by imports.

Profitsbeard said...

Failure to read The Koran and to know their enemy is the fatal flaw of the glib, modern geopolitical pimps.

All they are doing is teaching their Mortal Opponent (MO) how to make a sharper sword ...that the jihadis will then happily use upon the infidels' own oblivious necks.

Lenin and Stalin and Hitler and Mao were babes in a four-seat stroller conpared to the Juggernaut of the millennial Mohammedans.

Ignorance of the intolerant intent of Islam is our current leadership's derelection of duty.

James Joyce noted: "History is a nightmare from which I am trying to awake."

But to do so, you have to first open its grim record.

Our power-holders prefer soothing fairy stories.

The "Religion of Peace" being the primary.

Protestant said...

Kosovo has nothing to do with Islam, it is rather an example of demographic conquest of a given piece of territory... a foreshadow of Western Europe in a few generation. This is about competing kin groups, nothing at all to do with religion, except that one kin group happens to be Muslim.

VinceP1974 said...

Protestant.. you made absolutely no sense.

Afonso Henriques said...

I had to highlight this comment from Ypp:

"I believe, America sees its mission as destruction of the traditional European order. It is not that America is deliberately pro-muslim, but it is anti-traditional. Actually, it encourages Europe to compete with muslims in a kind of a "honest sparring", on the terms that are not favorable to Europe. This sparring Europe may well loose."

He shows a great lucidity. America is near to taste its own poison. For exemple, sickening multiculturalism was imposed upon Europe because America had "blacks and indians"; Europe lost its colonies and its pride in being European, or equating Europe with somethnig superior, thanks to America; I could go on...

turn said...

Oh, Yeah. I've seen that one before.

Blame America for European multiculturalism.

You people just can't accept responsibility for your failures so just blame the big dog across the pond.

We have saved your *sses twice.

Our black and native Indian citizens all contributed to liberating Europe when we were not threatened there.

We were the bulwark that held off the Soviets.

ypp shows less lucidity and more lunacy.

Remember, children, if anything is less than perfect in your society it is all America to blame.

Defiant Lion said...

Hello to all at GoV

I have been a frequent visitor to this excellent blog for the last 2 years. The standard of essays and comments are always very, very high and the blog is a real credit to Baron and Dymphna.

But the comments on this essay -well, I just had to reply. Because never on this blog have I seen so much total rubbish and ill-informed comments on here. In particular:

The government of Kosovo isn't criminal.

Nazism has been eradicated in Croatia and calling Croats nazis is stupid. You only need to look at Croatia's flag to see why this coment is foolish.

The ill-informed misguided comment about the ethnic cleansing of the Krajina.

The US has helped the Serbs. Not since 1992 it hasn't.

The US isn't siding with Islamofascists.

All of this is just repeating the vomit spoon-fed to people who lack the integrity to search for truth. If you want to know the truth about the break up of Yugoslavia then listen to the people who were directly involved and who have the insight and expertise to provide accurate analysis.

This is a superb documentary featuring such people:

Yugoslavia The avoidable war -

1. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5860186121153047571

2. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6371060303901674397

The evidence is unequivocable and categorically disproves much of the rubbish that has been posted above.

As for the role of the US and the EU - well, judge for yourselves, it isn't something to be proud about that's for sure.

vera said...

It's not as complicated as the article states - and the problem doesn't go back to the early 1900s.

The problem is that the U.S. no longer has a homogenous population. There is now a majority of Asians here, Koreans, Japanese, etc. on 2-yr work visas, then they go back home ( BTW, these Asians don't have the must courtesy and niceties that is so propagandized) and immigrants such as Hindus, and Mexicans, etc. - all of which have their own interests, NOT American. There is no cohesiveness, and they don't care about the U.S. - except to make money.

This the way it's going.

Afonso Henriques said...

Well, I read at a glance all the comments and I will not answer one by one. I will just answer to a comment that offended me and will make a balance of comments.

First, I wanted to thanks Defiant Lion for the links to the documentaties. I will watch them as soon as I have some time available.

The comment that offended me was the comment made by Turn.
I am ALWAYS the first to not blame others for my mistakes, especially at this level.

"Blame America for European multiculturalism." Yes, America is the source, and as so it is to blame. But much, much more guilty are our leaders. And even more is the people who elected because IN A DEMOCRACY, THE PEOPLE RULES and as so the public SHALL BE HELD RESPONSIBLE for its leaders. That's why I blame all Americans by Bush's errors.

"You people just can't accept responsibility for your failures so just blame the big dog across the pond."
No comment at all. It all started after WWII, we know the rest...

"We have saved your *sses twice."
You did not saved my country in particular. NEVER. I owe you nothing. Actually, it was the Americans that helped the rebels in the colonies killing thousands
of people. So, you should look to History before start believing in the GREAT AMERICA, one indivisible country united by God. Go tell that to an "Obama" or a "Mexifornian". What a bullsh*t!

"Our black and native Indian citizens all contributed to liberating Europe when we were not threatened there."
Well, I heard that we were better with the NAZIS. I recognise the American liberation of Europe. I will not be thankfull to any "black" or "indian", only to "Americans"
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Taken-Force-American-Europe-During/dp/023050647X
I read a review of the book in a nice blog that I do not remember by now.

THE PEOPLE IS TO BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ONES THEY ALLOW TO GOVERN THEM.
In Europe, America, Saudi Arabia, everywhere. That's why war is not immoral.

I do not have much time,
I will only thanks to that guy that showed Gordon what really happened in Cyprus.

Croat 555,
It would be better if you stop to recite Croatian Mythology. Faced what happened. The Ustaches were aided by the majority of the Croatian people. What's the difference between a hard line Nationalist and a Nazi? Let me guess... a Nazi is always bad whereas a hard line Nationalist is only bad when he becmoes a Nazi.
Come on? Croats and Serbs are distant peoples? I am more distant to a Castillan (Spaniard) than you are to a Serb in Kosovo.
You should really become imparcial, don't you think?

I'll come back soon.

Croat555 said...

Defiant Lion,

Checkerboard as Croatian coat of arms existed long before WW2. It was also used in Yugoslavia as coat of arms of federal republic of Croatia. Your "argument" is ridiculous. But, it throws light at you nevertheless.

http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grb_Republike_Hrvatske

About documentary you linked to - fine example of Serbian propaganda at work. It should be put into formalin and showed around. Despicable.

Ypp said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Croat555 said...

Alfonso,

A bit more of it, and will not come back at all. I'm really sick of this.

DP111 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
VinceP1974 said...

It always seemed a bit unfair for me when I see America being blamed for Europe's multiculturalist disaster.

I was born in 1974, so I only know what I experienced since then..

It seemed to me that America was always multi-ethnic, and I remember being raised to esteem such concepts as pluralism, the melting pot.. E Pluribus Unum.

I dont remember Multi-Culturalism getting going where I lived (In Chicago) until sometime in the 1980s, and full stream ahead in the 1990s with the demise of Affirmative Action and the Leftists needing a new backdoor around prohibitions on racial quotas.

That's when all this diversity and accomodation crap started here in Chicago.

I dont remember such a wishy washy mentality existing before then.

I do remember observing that Europe has always seemed further along in any Left-wing movement.. including Multi-Culti, Political Correctness, Anti-Americanism, Ant-Christian....

So maybe it's true that America "infected" Europe with Multiculturalism... but Europe sure did seem to like it... way more than we do.

Europe likes it so much they're not having kids, they're importing their new masters, they're destorying their nations' soverignity, they have no patriotism, they are not willing to fight in places like Iraq (with notable exceptions like basically the people in the armed forces... the people not in the armed forces mostly seem against it).


So my European friends .. blame us if it makes you happy.

We can blame you for interfering with almost every people on the planet earth.. establishing your colonies everywhere, and then at the height of it... engage in a suicidial destructive war with each other, and then leave us the mess of your world-wide retreat to deal with... and then blame us for the way we're dealing with it.

Mabye if you folk took responsiblity , and by that I mean.. rise up to the challenge of life and not wallow in guilt and self-loathing, the world would be different than it is.

Defiant Lion said...

Defiant Lion,

Checkerboard as Croatian coat of arms existed long before WW2. It was also used in Yugoslavia as coat of arms of federal republic of Croatia. Your "argument" is ridiculous. But, it throws light at you nevertheless.

http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grb_Republike_Hrvatske

About documentary you linked to - fine example of Serbian propaganda at work. It should be put into formalin and showed around. Despicable.

Croat55:

You debate in a reactive, disgareeable manner which does you no credit whatsover and it lowers the standard of this site.

The issue isn't the origin of the checkerboard, rather, the intent of those who use it as their symbol. In this case - and your angry reaction is a real giveaway - it is beyond any dount that the Ustashe hold it as their symbol.

You then dismiss hours of documentary containing contributions from the very people who betrayed Serbia as "Serb propoganda". It also contains impartial analysis and a factual prtesentation of the whole break up of Yugoslavia - including a criticism of Milosevic's opportunitisic leadership as well as footage of Croat Ustashe politicians welcoming back fighters as Ustashe heroes. Two of these people are now mayors.

You will do well to watch it, educate yourself, and if you can, provide a factual, unbiased and intelligent rebuttal rather than resorting to the lies, denials and gutter-level sniping you are engaging in right now.

Croatia - along with the US and NATO - has a lot to answer for and you know it.

Croat555 said...

Defiant Lion,

Issue is not origin, but intent? What intent? To use our coat of arms that existed for centuries? That proves us to be Ustaše? Now to call that ridiculous is somehow lowering standards of this site, but calling entire nation Nazis because they have coat of arms is not? Well!

Pardon me for being angry, but I have no intent to answer to you for my existence.

vera said...

Afonso:

"And even more is the people who elected because IN A DEMOCRACY, THE PEOPLE RULES and as so the public SHALL BE HELD RESPONSIBLE for its leaders. That's why I blame all Americans by Bush's errors.

"THe People are Responsible for...."


So there you go! Then you can also go blame all other countries and Nationalities, right? The Mexicans are responsible for their government. The Colombians are responsible for theirs..The Argentinians for the "Disappeared," the Europeans right now for the riots, and car burnings, etc. How about Chinese for Mao, and the Somalians for Darfur. Go ahead!

vera said...

"Bush is in the pockets of the Muslims. The Muslims and their dhimmi apologists dressed in 'expert' garb tell him what to think and do."

I happen to agree with Sobieski completely. HOWEVER, the breakdown and destruction is OF a government that is no longer functioning - that type of government is no longer viable in these Times. A centralized government doesn't work - what is on it's way in, is a Local type-government - whose interests lie with the community FIRST - and THEN, in emergencies - will united against a common enemy.

This is in the way of the Native American Councils - and Grandmother COuncils, which should have been adopted in 1776, instead. If it weren't for the Patriarchal mentality of the "Founding Fathers."

Defiant Lion said...

Croat555

You are being disingenous and you are now contructing a straw man. Which I will address first:

You don't have to answer for your existence to me and I haven't stated otherwise. Retract please.

Nor did I say "it proves all Croatians to be Ustashe". I said that it was an issue of intent. The problem is that the checkerboard was the symbol of the ustashe nazis in WWII wasn't it?

It was then selected by Ustashe and communist politicians when Croatia seceded in full knowledge of what this symbol represents to many people on all sides.

You can get as angry as you like. You can rant, smear, and dodge as much as you like. But you cannot hide from the truth. Including the actions of Tudjman and the Ustashe during the civil war and fully documented with supporting evidence in the documentary.

Evidence I am sure regulars here on GoV will have the impartiality and the intelligence to evaluate as to its validity for themselves.

George Bruce said...

It appears that the European readers have long memories of historical grievances. Those issues are best left to historians unless we want future historians to write about the destruction of European culture by Muslim invaders. It reminds me that European kings ignored the pleas for help from Constantinople because they had conflicts with other European powers.

George Bruce said...

Oh, and accusations against the United States are as unproductive as arguments about past grievances. What is needed is education and cooperation, not accusations.

Croat555 said...

defiant lion,

I understood you perfectly. You first said this:

"Nazism has been eradicated in Croatia and calling Croats nazis is stupid. You only need to look at Croatia's flag to see why this coment is foolish."

Croatia had that flag and that coat of arms for a very long time and even used it in Yugoslavia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:SR_Croatia_coa.png

It seems to me that it is you here who has some retracting to do. As for the rest, terribly sorry to be so blunt - comment is not needed.

Defiant Lion said...

Croat555:

No, you have not understood at all and you are being deliberately economical with the truth.

Ustashe politicians are active in Croatia. Therfore to say nazism has been eradicated in Croatia is a lie. They were also active in the civil war as the film proves beyond doubt.

The symbol on the flag was not only chosen because it was used for a long time and it has much more significance than this, a fact you are of course reluctant to acknowledge.

I did not ask you to justify your existence, that you made this accusation and refuse to retract it clearly shows you are lacking in honesty and fair mindedness.

The documentary reveals the truth about the role the Ustashe nazis played in WWII and in the civil war.

The point remains that nazis are active in Croatia and they knew full well not only the historical significance of the checkerboard but also what it means for Croatian nationalists and their enemies.

As for: "No other comment is needed" this is because you haven't the ability to refute the strong evidence presented in the film. It certainly proves just how badly the Croats behaved a fact that no doubt you are deeply ashamed of and explains your reaction on here.

And the Croats aren't the only ones by any means who behaved disgracefully. So don't try and makes this an anti-croat issue. Other nations such as the US and Germany also have acted deplorably too.

If people watch the film they will see the truth for themselves and if it isn't true, they can always provide a rational rebuttal supported by evidence and denbate in a respectful, and unbias manner.

Without smear or insult of course.

Baron Bodissey said...

DP111 --

Please don't paste long URLs into the comments; they make the post page too wide and mess up the appearance of the permalink page.

Use link tags; the instructions are at the top of the full post's comment section.

--------------------------

DP111 said...

Rewarding Separatists Will Haunt the West By David Warren

link

---------------------------

Rewarding Muslims and Islam for violence, has been a consistent policy of the USA for as long as I can remember.

The tragedy is that we i.e., the USA and the EU are now stuck with an illegitimate adolescent, and no sign whatever that it will ever be recognised as an adult. And as an adolescent, and particularly this one that is really a drugs and prostitution running one, we will be held legally responsible for its actions.

Eurytan said...

It appears that the European readers have long memories of historical grievances. Those issues are best left to historians unless we want future historians to write about the destruction of European culture by Muslim invaders. It reminds me that European kings ignored the pleas for help from Constantinople because they had conflicts with other European powers.

----------------------------------

Yes some of us Europeans have long memories. Were you are wrong is the the problem is not Europeans that have long memories. The problem is Europeans and Americans with no memories. As a Greek I may remember 1204 or every time the Greeks rebelled against the Ottomans when asked to by the Christian West only to be left to fend for themselves afterwards. But by the same token I have no need to learn afresh what the word giaur meant or how great the non existent Ottoman multicultural paradise was not. Or for that matter don't need to learn anew who was the main threat since the 7th century and who fought the same fight.

If the price of remembering Leo III, George Kastriote, Hunyadi, Sobieski and Eugene of Savoy is also remembering Enrico Dandolo then so be it.

VinceP1974 said...

I agree with Eurytan,, if only we had better memories.. We would be standing together and firm against the threats in the world... remembering what is at stake adn what the price to pay is for failure.

I've read a great book on the history of American involvement in the Middle East. The Americans of the 1800s knew the nature of the Muslims. Unfortunately after the Civil War we developed the silly notion that perhaps we can teach those people something.. and so we went in with our science and hospital and schools.

An American doctor even managed to treat a Saud.... a favor that wasn't forgotten when Oil Companies were seeking consesions from the then latter-on established Kingdom. and the King agreed to the Americans.


Anyway. we should have let them wallow in their condition instead of giving them anyof our advances.

Paardestaart said...

I believe, America sees its mission as destruction of the traditional European order

America, like Europe has fallen to cultural marxism, and that wants to destroy capitalist-bourgeois society..
EU-pundits are just as eager to build a new order, and a new man..They are destroying the European nation-states for that purpose

nikolai said...

Agree with Pardestaart.

It's cultural marxism, through the colonization of the electronic media, that seeks to destroy all the western nations as nations, as per Gramsci's theory.

Not understanding religion, their "extinction through immigration" policy has imported an even more virulent and destructive ideology. Something the smarter marxists are probably starting to realise themselves.

mike said...

General thoughts about various & sundry:

* Even if every rotten accusation about the Serbs or Russians ever said by anyone is wholly and completely true, it is still also true that they will not impose Sharia Law nor will they proselytize the division of the world into Dar al Islam and Dar al Harb.

* China is not a "superpower" in the sense that it has considerable international influence. Saudi Arabia, otoh, is clearly a superpower, overtly as the most important constituent member of OPEC, and more covertly as the controller of the globe-spanning Wahhabist network.

* Democracy is the tyranny of those who organize elections and count votes, and nothing more. Democracies are not intrinsically more ethical or just than monarchies, and frequently vote to become more tyrannical.

* Islam will completely and utterly destroy European Marxist socialism borne of kleptodemocracy; and every European who's demanded a welfare-state teat to suckle for life at someone else's expense will richly deserve it. Especially those in Brussels.

* Stupid people have more children than smart people. When governments rob smart, productive people to buy the support of the more numerous idiots over the course of multiple generations, the process is catalyzed and the Homo sapiens species devolves back to Homo erectus. Regretably, sub-intellectual barbaric cultures are stable evolutionary "plateaus" (as over a thousand years of Islamic squalor across the middle-east amply demonstrate) unless and until they are forcibly supplanted.

* History has demonstrated only *one* successful strategy for dealing with psycho death-cult religions -- and that is to raze the temples and kill the hate-mongering priests without mercy. Any response to Islam which does not expressly seek to eliminate those who preach totalitarian Sharia and destroy their icons...will fail miserably. Islam will inexorably spread like a blight across the face of the earth until the Kaaba is rendered into an alciline pond at the bottom of an enormous blast crater. -- Then it will collapse overnight.

* Even if 100 million people type 100 trillion words to internet blogs, the world will still belong to those who commit their principles to *action* rather than blather. "He who dares...wins!" as the Romans said.

George Bruce said...

"Yes some of us Europeans have long memories. Were you are wrong is the the problem is not Europeans that have long memories. The problem is Europeans and Americans with no memories. As a Greek I may remember 1204 or every time the Greeks rebelled against the Ottomans when asked to by the Christian West only to be left to fend for themselves afterwards. But by the same token I have no need to learn afresh what the word giaur meant or how great the non existent Ottoman multicultural paradise was not. Or for that matter don't need to learn anew who was the main threat since the 7th century and who fought the same fight."

"If the price of remembering Leo III, George Kastriote, Hunyadi, Sobieski and Eugene of Savoy is also remembering Enrico Dandolo then so be it.”




That is all crap. The question is how is Europe to survive? I don’t give a damn about something that happened centuries ago.

If that is all you can think of, you are already doomed.

Europe will survive if in unites to save itself AND if America is generous enough to help. We, as Americans, owe you NOTHING. You can all die without any cost to us. As it stands now, I am not in favor of a single American solder shedding his blood in defense of any European country. At a time when European NATO countries won’t send troops to Afghanistan for our common defense, I see no obligation we owe to you.

You want to debate Balkan history in echo cambers? Enjoy. Don’t expect us to help when the Muslims come to enslave you. The US Navy will protect our shores.

mike said...

> Europe will survive if in unites to save itself
> AND if America is generous enough to help.

-- The only way Europe, or anywhere else under an Islamist onslaught, is going to survive is when certain elements within it adopt the very same tactics the enemy is using, and sticks it to them good and hard.

nikolai said...

"If the price of remembering Leo III, George Kastriote, Hunyadi, Sobieski and Eugene of Savoy is also remembering Enrico Dandolo then so be it.”


"That is all crap. The question is how is Europe to survive? I don’t give a damn about something that happened centuries ago.

If that is all you can think of, you are already doomed."

Remembering that crap is the only way Europe will survive. Only nationalism or religion have the emotional power to counter-act the weight of the multi-culturalist mass media. And religion is weak in Europe.

Islam is only here because of multi-culturalism. Islam is winning because of multi-culturalism. Defeating Islam requires the defeat of multi-culturalism i.e some form of nationalism.

(Admittedly competing nationalisms arguing on here isn't going to help much so it is maybe better to ignore minor slurs on own's tribe if possible :) )

Eurytan said...

You want to debate Balkan history in echo cambers? Enjoy. Don’t expect us to help when the Muslims come to enslave you. The US Navy will protect our shores.

----------------------------------

I don't mind if you don't come to help us. I'll settle with you not outright helping them out. Not arming them to the teeth would also be nice but I won't hold by breath expecting this given your track record.

turn said...

"Remembering that crap is the only way Europe will survive. Only nationalism or religion have the emotional power to counter-act the weight of the multi-culturalist mass media. And religion is weak in Europe.

Islam is only here because of multi-culturalism. Islam is winning because of multi-culturalism. Defeating Islam requires the defeat of multi-culturalism i.e some form of nationalism."

Listen up! Go back and read my 1st comment on this thread. Or don't. The point is that the US learns how to get along with former enemies and some of you Europeans do not.

I'm glad you remember your history. There is much to be proud of along with much to be ashamed. Same as in America.

What is coming? Another existential threat.

80 years after our brutal Civil War there were still hard feelings between the North and South. But our young men from Alabama and Massachusetts fought side by side against the common enemy.

Your grudges cannot be more important than your unity when it is needed.

Islam is not in Europe because of multiculturalism. It's in Europe because of the welfare state that feeds on immigrant labor to pay taxes to support the social programs installed since the 1950s. West Germany started importing Turks for labor in the 1950s. North African immigration to France began in earnest soon after.

Multiculturalism (MC) was invented to smooth the way. 20 years ago a comic in the UK could perform a whole set with ethnic jokes. Not anymore.

MC is imposed on you by unelected governments that wish you to accept anything.

After you let your governments take your guns away you have all been at their mercy, anyway.

nikolai said...

turn,

You have a point about it starting more as importing labour.

Now, however, the weakness of the resistance to Islamicization is because of multi-culturalism. There is a huge pressure from the MSM and politicians (both in the US and Europe) in favour of multi-culturalism. In Europe at least I see the only way through that PC wall being nationalism as I see it as the only thing with enough emotional power to counter-act the MSM.

You're obviously right that if that emotional power gets squandered in fighting over old grudges then it won't help much. The same could possibly be said for US vs Euro spats. Despite all that though, to me, signs of nationalism in Europe are hopeful signs vis a vis jihad, even if they come with many risks.

turn said...

Nikolai-

Thank you. You have delivered the first well balanced comment to any of mine.

I'm obviously an American and cannot, as such, offer anything other than American advice; but here it is, nonetheless: regard yourself as a European before anything else. Regard your common Greco-Roman heritage as superior to any Asian invasion.
Do not fall to the MC implication that other cultures are as worthy of respect as your own. Yours may fail to live up to want you desire sometimes; their's fails everytime.
From your last message I credit you greatly for not angrily disagreeing with me--this sets you head and shoulders against some others on this thread.
Your challenge is to personally find others of like mind and begin the process of destroying the EU from within.
Yes. I positively agree with you that Nationalism is key to destroying the trends of the EU, but it must be a positive and respective nationalism without the rancor of past and hateful forms.
It must take the form of "I'm proud to be a Czech and I'm happy you're proud to be an Austrian" and we shall stand together no matter what".
That's the only way I can see it working for you.
Unlike some of the comments above, if the US is called I will answer--yes--with or without my country's blessing, I will come and fight for Israel or Europe.
I have daughters--and they will never wear burkhas. While I have breath.
This has been a fascinating thread--to read such impassioned opinion. I can read endless European history but still never truly comprehend the contemporary feelings of some.
The reality remains. There is a threat to the remaining freedoms of all Europeans from Scandinavia to Greece by the Muslim invasion. I have no doubt that there will be bloody confrontation.

Call me when you need me.

mike said...

> I positively agree with you that Nationalism is key
> to destroying the trends of the EU, but it must be a
> positive and respective nationalism without the
> rancor of past and hateful forms.

But that's all European nationalisms ever offered: hero-worship of hereditary monarchs.

Graham Dawson (Archonix) said...

Um... no it didn't. What do you call the sort of nationalism that drove the scandies in the 18th century? What about Italian pride in their art and history (and their men for a long time)? What about the English, with our strange ideas about the freedom of the individual and the right to build a house wherever we wanted?

I think you'll find, actually reading history, that most european monarchs weren't hero worshipped so much as blamed. Often they were held in absolute contempt, simply for being the guy at the top of the pile, or for the fact that they were a gibbering eejit or a loon. If they were treated as heroes then it was usually because they'd done something fairly spectacular or praiseworthy; Henry the fifth, for instant, or the current Elizabeth, who worked as a plumber during the second world war.