Monday, February 11, 2008

From the Files of Downeastblog

Filip Dewinter and Pieter Van Boxel

Is this Filip Dewinter with a scary Obersturmbannfuehrer? Nope. It’s Filip Dewinter with a very fine young lad, Pieter Van Boxel, of Indonesian descent but raised in a Flemish household, hence the name. He is a local chapter leader [of VB] in the small community of Malle. There are others like him.

There would be many more, if…the Belgian media, political parties and unions had not been unleashing a tidal wave, for thirty years now, of the most vile disinformation regarding my party. The real reasons the VB is so hated is NOT because it would be racist, but firstly, because it is unashamedly CONSERVATIVE in a political environment where even the Right - or what passes for it - is leftist to a considerable degree.

Secondly, and this is especially indigestible for the Belgian establishment, because it strives for Flemish Independence (note that I am not in favor of that, but that is another question).

Thirdly, Outlaw Mike notes, using a photo from 2001 as documentation, that VB supported Bush from the git-go.


[post ends here]


Afonso Henriques said...

Make no mistake, all this is propaganda.

They are "usefull idots" to the VB. Tnhose people may be usefull now but once the muslim problem is solved, Indonesias (muslims) or any other non Flemish group will be targeted.

I am not saying that the VB will presecute them, I am only saying that the VB is not anti muslim, it is pro Flemish and those people are not Flemish.

As I saw in a BBC documentary about the BNP, they think: "Today we may ally with Hindus against the muslims, but they will all be expelled."

The option you have to make is, shall a Flemish Flanders be Flemish or should we impose upon ourselves multiculturalism in a way that Islam will probabily succeed?

I am with the Vlaams Belang. And I do think that it is one or the other, there are no third way.

This only proove that a Nationalistic leader can be a normal non racist person. Still, he's no racist but he stands for the Flemish people, not the Flemish-Indonesian Immigrants.

Don't trick yourself.

ProFlandria said...


I had promised myself I wouldn't get sucked into this discourse again. But what the hey, it's a slow day so here goes...

VB is not BNP. It is not Socialist, and it is not "whites-only". A quick comparison of both parties' platforms makes that abundantly clear. On the issue of immigration policy, here are some excerpts from VB's official platform:

"Flanders is not an immigration country en should not conduct a policy that attracts immigration. Those who arrive here as immigrants wishing to establish themselves permanently will adapt to our language, culture and customs and are in the first place loyal to Flanders, their new country. That is not the solution preached by the multicultural dogma, in which various cultures [...] exist alongside each other."

"This position is deeply rooted in the Flemish historical experience. [...] We wish to avoid a repetition of [the displacement of the Dutch-speaking culture with the French-speaking one, and now gradually also by other cultures] in our other Flemish cities. French speakers who do not adapt to the Dutch language in public life, education and the judiciary and who have no respect from Flemish culture are not welcome in Flanders. By the same token, those who speak a different language and subscribe to different cultures must either adapt to us or return to their country of origin, where they are free to live their own culture."

"[Whereas it is understandable that many immigrants wish to retain the cultural patterns of their home country,] They now live in a country with a completely different language and culture. Erlier immigrants such as Italians, Poles and Greeks have completely adapted to their new home. After all, their cultural background is much closer to ours. For Turks and Moroccans, the second largest groups of non-European immigrants, adaptation is a lot less smooth."

"The large numbers of Moroccans, Turks and recently other groups slows down their adaptation to our culture. Their communities have grown so large that they are self-sustaining. When one is surrounded by that many people of the same culture, why indeed should one abandon one's culture? [This situation] leads to tensions with the Flemish population. Some customs and habits are not always well received [by the "natives"]. This does not mean that these customs are wrong, merely that the original population is unsettled by them."

"An additional problem is the fact that some customs are not merely different from ours, but unacceptable and in breach of human rights. Not everyone finds it self-evident that men and women are to be treated equally, that Church and State are separate, that one can freely change one's faith without fear of persecution, and that one can freely choose whom to marry. We in Flanders do find those things to be self-evident."

This is the platform on which VB manages to gain the votes of almost 800,000 people in national elections. Remember, the total population of all of Belgium is around 11 million. For a "regional" (as opposed to national) party this is phenomenal.

I know people who make the argument that the official platform is just afront for "what they really want to do". People who go for that argument are, in my mind, earnestly trying to read the future by studying tealeaves and chicken entrails. It may be good voodoo, but it sucks as serious analysis. I don't know of any party who ever got voted into office on one platform, and then unveiled and carried out their "true" one.

The other argument I hear is that “Hitler was elected democratically too". For one, I don't think so - if you need uniformed street thugs to beat people into the correct voting behavior I don't think the result is democratic. On the other hand, if you believe Hitler was elected democratically and that was a bad thing, than that argument can be used against any party, not just VB.

Afonso Henriques said...

Pro Flandria, your comment elucidates it pretty clear.

I just wanted to show Americans here that Flemish Nationalism is pro Flemish, not anti muslim or pro non whites.

They do not want a multicultural/multiracial country.
As I said:
"They will all be expelled" is better than we will revive Yugoslavia.

Simon de Montfort said...

Hitler was not 'elected democratically': the Nazis top showing at parliamentary elections was a third of the vote in both the late Summer and Autumn 1932elections.

Hitler was made Chancellor in a back-room deal with the Nationalist Party and some Catholic Centre Party leaders. The Nazis got only four seats in the Cabinet, but these included Chancellor and control of the Polezei

Even after this, in the March 1933elections after the Reichstag fire, the Nazis got only 40 %

The German people went along with a fait accompli of the Nazi acquisistion of government power, but they did not elect Hitler--and the NSDAP was not 'democractically elected'

Sir Henry Morgan said...

And talking about democratic credentials - the current British government was elected by just 22.8% of the electorate.

Very democratic.

Kafir_Kelbeh said...

Afonso -

Just because they're pro-Flanders doesn't make this guy their "dupe".

Pieter appears to have assimilated, which is what VB endorses. Hell, that's what any true Western Conservative, pro-(insert your country here) endorses. DUH.

Conservatives (and most Moderates) look at issues and individuals. Liberals look at groups and classes (for victim status and division of spoils).

Before I read any of the comments, I wanted to concur that this is how I feel this election cycle as an unabashed Conservative when my so-called Right-Wing Republican leaders tell me that my principles don't matter any more.