Friday, January 25, 2008

What Would the Danes Do?

Transatlantic Conservative's probably got the first coverage of this story in English:

Hmm…do they get to keep their flag?Danish muslim party: Neu auf dem Wahlzettel in Dänemark - “‘Danish Muslim Party’ will be biggest party of Denmark - and it may be soon. First day after Turkey becomes EU member country - about one million 20-50 years old muslims moves to Denmark. And after that Denmark will be a muslim country. Be ready!…

Go here to read the rest.

EU = dhimmification.

I will be interested to see what the Danes have to say about this.


[Post stops here]

18 comments:

Anonymous said...

Over my dead body.....

Henrik said...

I would ridicule them. Lighthearted, with relevant documentation in the background.

Point out that 'DAMP' is an abbreviation for "Deficits in Attention, Motor Control and Perception". Really. I know that it's technically way beside the point, but when you just look at the definition, it's spot on. Muslim Rage Boy, anyone? Include a pic!

Then add that their political program is completely out the window, that we'd never want such a reactionary political system in our fine country, and that Turkey will never join EU because it's essentially un-European and even fails to take the democratic reforms seriously, and that Islam is completely incompatible with democracy anyway.

Or whatever fits the inspiration of the moment :)

Bringing up a mountain of relevant, hard to disprove points stacks the game in our favor.

Others?

Homophobic Horse said...

Yeah but what is truth?

Some people just don't like change.

Chill out d00d, take some Prozac.

Zonka said...

Well first of all moving a million Turkish muslims to Denmark will be stupendiously stupid, as it would not give them voting rights and it would only insure that they would be kicked out again quite fast, and if Denmark at that point is still a member of EU, then either the EU will look the other way as they are expelled or Denmark will seceede from the EU and kick them out. So let them try, it would be a catastopic blunder of the Islamic world to try such a stunt...

Anonymous said...

Has anyone established if this "Dansk Muslim parti" and/or the website is legit?

The homepage is located on mono.net which appears to offer free hosting for homepages.

Could be real. Might not be.

Anonymous said...

The party's address is also poste restante.

Hmmmmm.

Zenster said...

It's difficult to imagine a better way of persuading member nations to exit the EU. Where do I send the congratulations?

Zonka said...

Hibernia Girl,

It is very easy to form a party in Denmark, all that is required is basically that you have at least one person as member, you tell people that the party exists... Then you have a party... Now the tricky part is when you want to run.. If you're running for local politics then I believe that you can register your party at the municipality offices where you have a candidate and you are in business. In local politics all that have a permanent residence permit for Denmark as well as living in the local society can vote for you.

If you want to run for parliament, then you have to gather signatures from 1% of the electorate, which at the moment is about 20,000 signatures, the signers of this have to be verified as being part of the electorate (voters) and that they have signed only for this one party.

And further blocks for getting elected into parliament is that you need at least 2% of the votes to be elected, anything less is wasted, and only Danish citizens are eligible to vote (takes at least 7 years and Danish comprehension tests to become a Danish citizen).

So yes I believe that the party is legit, and no I don't think it has a snowball's chance in Hell of getting elected into parliament, but maybe one or two local politician seats in municipalities with a large muslim population if they work hard at it.

The Poster Formerly Known as Gordon said...

Several problems with the scares behind this story:

1. Denmark's current population is 5.5 million. Even if a million Turks moved to Denmark, they (along with existing Muslims) would at most constitute 25% of the population.

2. The earliest Turkey could be allowed entry into the EU is 2013. Recent comments by the head of the EU stated that, in fact, entry would not occur until at least 2021.

3. For Turkey to enter the EU, it will have to basically convert itself into a fully Western state, with rule of law, good court system, end of military influence in government, resolution of issues with Kurds, and economic growth to bring Turkey closer to the EU average per capita GDP. Which means that, by the time Turkey is qualified to join the EU, there won't be as much of an economic incentive for Turks to leave Turkey.

4. While there is significant Islamic religious sentiment in Turkey, the country is clearly the most secular and irreligious of the nations in the Middle East. Even if lots of Turks moved to Denmark, many if not most would not be political Islamics. It's not like Europe would be accepting Saudi Arabia or Iran into the EU.

5. My understanding is that individual nations can opt out of much of the "open borders" rules for EU member states. It is my understanding that Britain has used such opt out rules to keep the hordes of Polish Plumbers from inundating the country. Instead they have been going to places like Ireland and Sweden where their presence is curiously correlated with higher economic growth rates than in countries that restrict their residence.

In summary, this story is a paranoid fantasy of a reaction to a messianic fantasy of a provocation.

Henrik said...

"So yes I believe that the party is legit"

Actually, that doesn't matter much. It may be just three friends testing the waters, or it may be a somewhat more serious group.

In both cases, making fun of the idea that Islam belongs in politics could bring interesting results, one way or another. We're vigilant, and as a matter of course react to any kind of silliness.

Anonymous said...

Henrik: Actually, that doesn't matter much. It may be just three friends testing the waters, or it may be a somewhat more serious group.

It could be three friends testing the water, it may be a somewhat more serious Muslim group ... or it could be someone trying to work up antipathy towards Muslim groups in Denmark (as if that's needed! -- they do very well by themselves AFAIAC).

I only question the legitimacy of this group 'cause it's difficult to tell from their anonymous website and address if they are real or not.

I don't suggest either way that they are real or not -- just pointing out that it's difficult to tell.

Zonka said...

Henrik Wrote:
In both cases, making fun of the idea that Islam belongs in politics could bring interesting results, one way or another.

Oh they definitely belong in politics, it's in religion that they are misplaced :)

Henrik said...

Zonka, you're right, of course - if it wasn't political, it wouldn't be Islam.

What I'm doing is taking a point of view from the hypothetical 'average citizen' who still buys into the 'religion' categorization and using that leverage to ridicule the idea of having an Islamic party in the first place.

How about we kick it from *both* categories? Just might be good for people everywhere...

Homophobic Horse said...

"5. My understanding is that individual nations can opt out of much of the "open borders" rules for EU member states. It is my understanding that Britain has used such opt out rules to keep the hordes of Polish Plumbers from inundating the country. Instead they have been going to places like Ireland and Sweden where their presence is curiously correlated with higher economic growth rates than in countries that restrict their residence."

"It is my understanding that Britain has used such opt out rules to keep the hordes of Polish Plumbers from inundating the country. "

You are wrong. The Poles keep coming. Interestingly, you are correct about the opt out rules, but John Reid doesn't use them because he thinks it is "discriminatory."

"Instead they have been going to places like Ireland and Sweden where their presence is curiously correlated with higher economic growth rates than in countries that restrict their residence."

From which we can conclude that some immigrants are desirable than others.

"1. Denmark's current population is 5.5 million. Even if a million Turks moved to Denmark, they (along with existing Muslims) would at most constitute 25% of the population."

More than enough to have an existential impact on Denmark.

"3. For Turkey to enter the EU, it will have to basically convert itself into a fully Western state, with rule of law, good court system, end of military influence in government,"

The EU is none of those things. Also, Turkey stays secular insofar as the military maintains a certain "influence" on the government. I can see it never being technically eligible for membership, but the EU could do it anyway.

"a paranoid fantasy of a reaction to a messianic fantasy of a provocation."

You also have Inventomania. I recommend dieting, exercise and seven glasses of water a day.

Graham Dawson (Archonix) said...

"It is my understanding that Britain has used such opt out rules to keep the hordes of Polish Plumbers from inundating the country."

Quite the opposite. In fact the UK is not even a signatory of Schengen (by which migration between EU countries is completely unrestricted), but we've implemented it's provisions anyway, which means anyone holding an EU passport is free to enter, claim benefits, gain employment and a whole bunch of other things that would normally only be open to British citizens. There was some talk about preventing the new accession countries after Poland from taking advantage of these rights but that fizzled. The Lisbon treaty makes it all moot anyway, though, since Schengen is incorporated into it without opt-outs of any sort.

Exile said...

I think it's a paper tiger.

Still, I'll polish up the shotgun just in case...!

Graham Dawson (Archonix) said...

For the record, the "hordes" of polish plumbers are making such huge inroads that even the pakistanis, not a group known for their work ethic in general, are starting to complain about losing jobs and so on. There's a polish shop opened up near me to cater for the large polish population that's moved into my area in just the last year. They are here in very large numbers, and maybe one in fifteen of the cars I see driving around have polish number plates now, so I don't know where your idea of "opt outs" preventing them from moving here actually came from.

Most of them come, stay for a year or 18 months and then go back to Poland. The situation is comparable to the way English builders used to flood into Germany in the late 70s and early 80s. They worked and paid into the economy, and to some extent the germans resented their presence because they were working at lower wages than german citizens were legally allowed to take home.

Most poles work and pay at least something into the economy. Our immigrants from "the south", as another post has it, generally don't work and are generally a drain on the economy. I certainly resent the polish immigrants for taking low wage jobs that locals would gladly fill if they were able but I at least prefer them to people who only come here to live on benefits - and if the majority of poles came here to live on benefits I would be complaining very bitterly about it.

Zenster said...

Zonka: Oh they definitely belong in politics, it's in religion that they are misplaced

Touché!

Archonix: There's a polish shop opened up near me to cater for the large polish population that's moved into my area in just the last year.

If it's anything like the Seakor Polish deli here in Silicon Valley, you're in for a treat.

Be sure to sample the following:

Starowiejska - Country style rope sausage

Jalowcawa - Juniper berry sausage

Parowki Cielece - Veal sausage (a masterpiece!)

Kabanosy - Hunter's sausage, like a mild beef stick or pepperoni sausage. Take paper-thin diagonal slices of this and flash deep-fry it for the most delicious little crisps. If consuming this by itself, be sure to allow the sausage to dry out in a paper bag for a few days. The flavor intensifies rather a lot.

Pasztet Polski - Chicken liver pâté (Incredible!)

Poledwica - Polish-style Canadian bacon

Wedzony Boczek Wiejski - Smoked slab bacon

Poledwica Lososiowa - Cured pork loin

All of these are available at my deli and they are simply superb. A blind man could shop there and walk away happy. The owner's son used to be Pope John Paul's altar boy back in Poland!