Thursday, January 17, 2008

The Fence is Going, The Immigrant Problem is Growing

In case you’re not on their list, the latest mass email from The Center for Individual Freedom had some interesting news:

Forget the fence.. It’s gone… Last month -- when they thought you weren’t looking -- the U.S. Senate passed a $555 billion omnibus spending bill that contained a tiny amendment revoking the mandate that the fence be built as originally specified.

And guess who slyly slipped in the amendment to gut SFA: Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison of Texas -- a state that has been ravaged and savaged by illegal immigration.

Her amendment reads:
- - - - - - - - -
“Nothing in this paragraph shall require the secretary of homeland security to install fencing, physical barriers, roads, lighting, cameras and sensors in a particular location along an international border of the United States, if the secretary determines that the use or placement of such resources is not the most appropriate means to achieve and maintain operational control over the international border at such location.”

Those who had fought to stop illegal immigration were stunned and angry.

[…]

Congressman Duncan Hunter said: “If Congress is to reverse its border stance after just one year, what message does that send to illegal immigrants and drug smugglers who are watching to see how serious we are about protecting America’s borders .”

As the Center put it:

Congressman Hunter was the driving force behind the building of the border fence in San Diego.

That fence consists of two layers with a Border Patrol access road separating the layers.

Congressman Hunter says the fence has reduced the smuggling of drugs and illegal aliens into San Diego BY A PHENOMENAL 90 PERCENT!

“If you get over my fence,” he says, “we sign you up for the Olympics immediately.”

In fact, he wrote the Secure Fence Act, which originally required a double layer border fence, just like the one in San Diego. The Hutchison amendment killed that requirement too.

TWO-FACED POLITICIANS -- REPUBLICANS AS WELL AS DEMOCRATS -- HAD NO INTENTION OF BUILDING A FENCE WHEN THEY PASSED THE ACT.

They voted for it while winking at one another, certain the time would come when you and I wouldn’t notice or even care when they hauled the Secure Fence out to the Washington city dump.

That’s what the Senate did. We need to find out if the House of Representatives plans to take up this issue again. Go to the legislative site of the Library of Congress to get bill information and the contact for your representative. Again...

53 comments:

Lou Minatti said...

I don't get the "I hate Mezcans" stuff. Mexicans are Christians who like to drink and look at nekkid women and no Mexican ever wanted to chop my head off because I'm not Catholic.

Anonymous said...

Lou Minatti, this issue is not about hating Mexicans. It's about sovereignty and security. Saudi-funded extremist mosques in California are aggressively recruiting Mexican immigrants to islam. The mosques help with immigration and work problems. I've seen muslim outreach flyers and cartoon books in spanish, littering my formerly middle-class neighborhood. Think about that: not only do illegal aliens have a much higher crime and welfare rate than natives, but now we also have to worry about immigrants being recruited as muslim terrorists. Also, Border Patrol agents routinely apprehend "other than Mexican" people sneaking across our southern border. Many of these people are Iraqi or other middle eastern agents.

Does this help you understand? This isn't about hate, except perhaps the hate our government seems to have for the people who live here legally.

Afonso Henriques said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Afonso Henriques said...

Well, I remember I heard of some Native American Mexicans who claimed they were the descendents of the Arabs who conquered Spain and Portugal. And as so, they are muslims.

Insignificant minority though.
The problem is, does the United States wanto to still be European?

It´s not about hate, its about preserving what is our.

Many Americans think ok giving a white daughter to marry a non white.
That is, they do not care about their own daughters, their own legacy to the world.

In ancient times, all across Europe, marriges were managed in order to preserve one man grandchildren. They would only give their daughters to the best available male.
Now, some americans give their daughters to aliens.

I know it's racist but it's too much at risk.

Can you imagine a United States 30% Mexican and 30% black?
It would have a lot of similarities with Yugoslavia.

Darrin Hodges said...

Lou, it's not about hate, it's about identity. Why should not America preserve her identity as a predominately "white" (nominally) Christian nation?

I know it's a terrible evil to talk of "whiteness". Lou, imagine a person of European descent going to China, becoming a citizen, learning Mandarin and being throughly "enculturated", do you think anybody would consider him a "chinaman", even ethnic Chinese? It's about identity, not hate.

Sodra Djavul said...

I would have to agree with the other posters here. Up until the mid-60's, the U.S.A. was predominately (85-90%) of European ancestry. Then Congress passed the Immigration Reform Act, and within a single generation, that percentage has fallen to the high fifties/low sixties. There has also been a concurrent debasement of American social values and culture, replacing it with alien values and culture. Coincidence or not?

I know it's currently considered "right" to welcome the "teeming masses yearning to breathe free," but the words of a New York City industrialist whose fortune was directly tied to exploiting cheap immigrant labor does not make a sound immigration policy.

I also take issue with the idea that our country was intended as a "melting pot" of other cultures. That is patently false. Benjamin Franklin was terrified of unchecked immigration into the newly formed nation from other Europeans. Clearly Thomas Jefferson did not hold African culture in high esteem based on his extensive writings on the subject. What was common was a fear that throwing wide the gates and welcoming the entire world as citizens would result in a nation reflecting the same dysfunction, bloodshed, and wars present throughout the rest of the world.

- Sodra

DaToad said...

First, it's simple and it's not about hating anyone. There is a proper and legal method for entering the United States of America. Use it. Second, it's not about hate, it’s about MONEY. Illegals take money out of the system and put very little money into the system. They cause sever strains within the education, medical, and social welfare sectors. Most drive without insurance.
Illegals don't, in most cases pay income tax, or into social security. They don't spend most of their money here, they send it home. The only taxes they pay are sales taxes on food and goods that they do buy. Most don't buy property so they aren't paying property taxes which support the schools where they send their children. And on and on. All this drain drives a need to increase revenue (read tax) to pay for the burden of these illegals. This of course falls on the shoulders of tax paying legal residents.

I’m not even going to go into the huge cost of crime that illegals are responsible for generating.

1389 said...

O/T but important Webcast interviews today, tomorrow with threatened blogger Lionheart

jim said...

I remember the time when illegal alines were the last ones that would commit a crime of any type. Not so anymore, the whole paradigm has changed.

Hutchison has stabbed all of us in the back, and she lied to me the whole time I emailed her over the issue. A vile person indeed, and she wants to run for Governor of Texas! I'll make sure everyone I know is aware of what she did!

jim

gun-totin-wacko said...

So how did The Maverick vote on this? Or was he too busy convincing everybody to vote for him and that illegal immigration isn't a problem?

What a bunch of slimeballs.

USorThem said...

I posted this before but did not post.

Also OT recent Lionheart interview on the BNP at www/USorThemonline.com

USorThem said...

Sorry, it is

www.USorThemonline.com

marginalizedactiondinosaur said...

I don't get the "I hate Mezcans" stuff.


How about you don't want to be one of the 25 victims today?

“12 U.S. citizens are murdered by illegal aliens each day. 13 Americans are killed each day by uninsured drunk driving illegals.”

fivefeetoffury

AngleofRepose said...

Lou,

I recently worked with a legal Mexican guy who was working for Schlumberger at the time. He also was ticked off at the illegal immigrants. He worked his butt off to get where he was, through the proper channels. He sees, as do most of us, his hard earned monies going towards those social services that illegals don't contribute a dime to, but nevertheless benefit from. Is he hating on his own race?

Like others said, it's about national security, sovereignty and our economy. We have a right to protect all three. That legal Mexican understood that.

PRCalDude said...

Looks like we'll just have balkanization then.

Stephen Renico said...

A fence isn't going to fix anything. Neither will mass deportations.

Drying up the well will fix things in the form of a bill which goes after and penalizes those who hire illegals, as well as a denial of all benefits for illegals.

Without work or benefits, there is no incentive to be here illegally. None.

This eliminates the need for legions of ICE agents and a big fence that can be tunneled under or climbed.

Hyperion said...

Stephen, you're most problably more educated and smart than i am, and even i can see there is no political will to fix this, and things will go from bad to worst for both the americans and us europeans, both continents aren't getting more conservative or patriotic that's for sure.

It seems to me , the most certain is that things will steadly continue to escalate until major secession political forces emerge and threat of balkanization seriously bites the population into the harsh reality.

It will take decades. Maybe two or more. I'm 26, so i guess i have time to watch it happen

Laine said...

There is only one United States, one Canada, one Australia, and one EU, the most successful nations in the history of the world, in the sense of providing the greatest good for the greatest number of citizens not only within their borders but outside as well, helping Africa for example.

There are dozens of countries (about 200 of them) that harbor failed cultures and systems of government. What earthly advantage is there to flooding the successful countries with failed cultures that demand the host countries be made over to accommodate their dysfunctional idiosyncrasies?

Multicult is a bizarre invention, a Trojan horse of the Left that has weakened every country that bought into it (only and all Western countries) no others.

Meanwhile, the failed cultures are impervious, allowed to continue all their pathology, even funded for its continuation by the UN and western governments.

For example, Mexico is not improving itself one iota. It subsists by exporting its citizens (and many pathologies) to be parasites on the United States. Any illegal earnings are sent back to Mexico while the costs of health care, legal system and education are drained from the American taxpayer. Here's a case where elected reps have a conflict of interest with the governed. They apparently benefit from illegal labor, or from the votes of legal hispanics and the labor/votes are paid for by the middle class citizen who gets no benefits and several headaches, like overcrowded classrooms, bankrupt hospitals and crime.

Meanwhile, anyone who tries to discuss this dysfunctional situation gets shut down by being called a racist. Meanwhile, the real racists, the ones slaughtering hundreds of thousands as in Africa, developing nuclear weapons to exterminate Jews or shouting hate towards the West in China get a by.

This insanity unchecked will result in a new Dark Ages, i.e. a world drop in living standard. If the Western nations go down, all the countries subsidized by them directly and indirectly will suffer even more.

Diamed said...

8% of the world is from europeon stock. Nevertheless, we are responsible for the majority of the world economy, the majority of scientific and artistic achievement, and the relatively higher freedom and peace around the whole world. How, with this track record, could anyone wish to replace us with hispanics, Arabs, Africans, Indians, or even Chinese--all of whom are already far more numerous than us, and have done nothing to show for it?

There is nothing wrong with self-preservation. There is something wrong, however, with mass immigration into every single majority-white country and the looming death knell of the greatest people who have Ever lived, all slated to become minorities by 2050. In any other time, this would be called what it is: genocide.

Geoffrey de Boullion said...

This is really more about the triumph of global socialism than about genocide. The multicultis would not care one wit about the West if it weren't successful. Too bad John Galt's valley doesn't exist.

Lou Minatti said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ScottSA said...

I'm really very heartened that the "race" issue is finally being talked about. Decades overdue and rather timidly to be sure, but better late than never. Visible race is an important component of social integrity, and wishing it away won't change that. Lou Minatti may think it's very Cosmopolitan to equate it to food, but there's rather more to it than that. I grew up in the third world, including 2 years in Mexico, and i don't want to see it come here.

As long as the Lou Minattis of the world are able to shut all conversation down by inflating the "racist" bogeyman, we'll never even be able to look at an important aspect of the problem, much less deal with it.

John said...

Frankly, it's because of my love for Mexicans that i wish them to remain in Mexico as law-biding citizens until such time as they are welcomed here with open arms by our nations gracious inhabitants.

I would never recommend, encourage or condone becoming a law-breaker to gain advantage even if it were my own family member. Better that they remain within the law.

I do, however, strongly encourage and support ANY foreign national of absolutely any race, color, creed or tribe, as they wait patiently and anxiously to enter the greatest nation the world has ever known, that they download themselves a copy of what has made this nation such. And that, of course, would be our constitution (along with all the other ancillary documents).

Read it, study it, know it! Then... RISE UP and cause REVOLUTION in your own nation for the good of your fellow citizens. The citizens and family members they claim to love who hold their very own proud, rich and unique culture in their hearts.

Breaking into and stealing what belongs to others and then sending the ill-gotten gains to the able-bodied back home doesn't strike me as the appropriate thing to do.

viva la revolucion

jdl

PRCalDude said...

I think if genetic claims are to be the basis of where a race is to live, then Mexicans belong in southern Mexico, from whence the meso-Americans traditionally lived.

Mexicans require their own geographic space to have their civilization. it's called Mexico. Americans have the US. If I read my history correctly, Italians weren't coming to the country illegally in droves, forming racist street gangs, sucking on the welfare tit, doing horribly in school, failing to learn the language, and marching on Mayday under the Italian flag, but you can correct me if I'm wrong Mr. Minatti.

John said...

By the way. I would like to make this crystal clear: There is, nothing inherently lacking in any human being which would prevent them from achieving a free and prosperous nation.

I refuse to believe that it was the hue of our founder's skin rather than their ideology, faith and strength of character ("Our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honors...")that has caused this anomaly in human history.

This planet IS big enough for more than one free superpower. America needs the competition to stay great and do good. And the USA is good. Period.

plus! The freer the market, the cleaner the planet;)

Chalons said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bela said...

Lou, what you say is pure crap: please explain the meaning of Aztlan, Mecha, and LA RAZA! What is the difference between Germany's Aryan race and the Messican La RAZA (The Race)? Aren't they both evoking race based separation?
Yes or no? No spin zone please, por favor. You openly and violently proclaim that part of the US belongs to Aztlan (Messiko) yet feel infuriated if we say we don't want to be part of the wetback cesspool culture, and we don't want to press #1 for English.
Es claro Senores?

Sodra Djavul said...

Lou said:
"Oh please. Cut the horseshit. It's about hating Mexicans."

Of course it's all about hating the poor innocent Mexicans, because we're all bigots. We bigots think our friends shouldn't get death threats by MS-13 members because a tattoo celebrating the day of the month on which he was born has some connotation within the failed Latin society. We're all bigots who think that crap belongs back in Mexico, Guatamala, or whatever hell-hole it sprang from, and not here. We're all bigots who feel the U.S.A. is sovereign territory, and not an extension of Mexico, or a place to absorb Mexico's excess population.

Lou said further:
"Like I said, I'd rather be invaded by hard-working Catholics who share my vices..."

And the reason you'd "rather be invaded" is because you assume you must be. Why must they be here swamping public services? Why must Americans whose ancestors sacrificed to build this nation into what it is dilute the inheritance given them by letting everyone from the third world (or Mexico) in? Don't these people have their own homes? Their own countries? Their own governments? Why can't they build their own instead of stealing ours?

- Sodra

Afonso Henriques said...

I am not going to crucificate Lou any longer.
First because I am such a racist, I think of real Americans and of Americans. Real Americans are Americans of European descent. May it be Anglo-Saxon, Italian or even Armenian. Americans are all the others.
Lou sounds a bit Oriental, and if it is the case, I understand he may have some difficulties understand the concepts the majority of the readers have popped in. But I will not talk to Lou essencially because so many commenters did it so well that I wouldn't make a difference to Lou.

I will just highlight some funny comments:

"I do, however, strongly encourage and support ANY foreign national of absolutely any RACE, color, CREED or tribe, as they wait patiently and anxiously to enter the greatest nation the world has ever known, that they download themselves a copy of what has made this nation such. And that, of course, would be our constitution (along with all the other ancillary documents)."

This guy looks like he is sitting in Brussels and is running the European Union. If you replace Nation by Continent it is it. It creeped me out to realise how the ones who say are fighting the E.U., sometimes can not escape the PC net. And do just like "the monster"
In the same comment:

"Read it, study it, know it! Then... RISE UP and cause REVOLUTION in your own nation for the good of your fellow citizens. The citizens and family members they claim to love who hold their very own proud, rich and unique culture in their hearts."

Yes, Comunism is dead, Socialism is dead, the USA won the cold war, every Civilised nation can breath easily now.
Come on! This guy is Che Guevara in person!
Fjordman is increadibly right, we lost the Cold War, the European Union is now the EUSSR, multiculturalism and PC are only soft communism; even in America(!) people are talking this way!; Russia is our ally, but both Americans and Russians can not cooperate; America is more and more less European, 25% of the French between 5 to 35 years old are non Europeans... The (multicultural world) war is now inevitable.
And, do you know of whom I have pitty? I have pitty of all my non white friends who are here in Europe right now because the majority are innocents, and they are the ones who will pay the highest price. Just because somebody had the idea to give Nationality to everybody because we are all Humans. The sad thing is, that is very little... being Human.
If we want to forecast what our future is we have to look to ex Yugoslavia. There were where the European Renessaince started.

All this is frightening.

Now, this is off topic.
Bela, you compare the Aryan thing to the La Raza thing.
It can not be done. Maybe you do it because you don't know well what Aryan meant and what were the "goals" of the Third Reich. Go make an independent research!
La Raza have some point. The land WAS theirs, it is not any longer. I support groups like La Raza as long as they don't get violent. They've been colonised by foreigners. The race means nothing, their identity and traditions everything. Hitler just wanted to create an European Union in which Germans would rule. One is imperialistic, the other just want to have the right to exist. I don't want La Raza in the USA but if you start letting mesti(ç/z)os in, as you have already done, La Raza has all the right to be with them.
Did you know that the ones who rule Mexico are white?

Another funny comment:

"I refuse to believe that it was the hue of our founder's skin rather than their ideology, faith and strength of character ..."

When will people (specially in America) wake up and realise that "white" is not a colour?
Maybe, if you change the word white and put in the word European, it will make more sence.
Reconstruction:
"I refuse to believe that it was the fact that our founders were European rather than their ideology, faith and strength of character ..."

Now imagine if, instead of those people who made their way to the U.S., were a bunch of Africans, Orientals, Muslims or Native Americans who made it.

Do you understand now what "white" means?
It is racial and cultural and you can not seperate both. Then, you have a civilisation.
Actually, are you so white that when you put you hand near the fridge door you can not destinguish you from the fridge? If not, why are you calling yourself white?
I don't have anything against people who claim thei're white, I just am against it when people reduce "whitness" to skin colour.

Lucille said...

In ancient times, all across Europe, marriges [sic] were managed in order to preserve one man grandchildren. They would only give their daughters to the best available male.
Now, some americans [sic] give their daughters to aliens.

I know it's racist but it's too much at [sic] risk.


Too much a risk of ... what, precisely?

And you speak of "giving" as if it's the parents who make the choice. But I highly doubt one in a thousand marriages (in the US) are arranged.

“12 U.S. citizens are murdered by illegal aliens each day. 13 Americans are killed each day by uninsured drunk driving illegals.”

Put that in perspective; 12 murders were committed by illegal aliens. 12, out of over 15 thousand a year. (See link below) That's a disproportionately low rate compared to the population of the U.S. as a whole.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_01.html

Thus, statistically, I have a disproportionately high chance of being murdered by a native-born citizen than by an illegal immigrant.

If I read my history correctly, Italians weren't coming to the country illegally in droves, forming racist street gangs, sucking on the welfare tit, doing horribly in school, failing to learn the language, and marching on May Day under the Italian flag,

They don't march on May Day (or Cinco de Mayo). They save the marching under the Italian flag for October 12.

And earlier Italian immigrants, the kind that inspired the reactionary laws of '24, did not speak English or integrate instantly.

Halal food: Sucks ass.

*shrug* I suppose I'll have to enjoy this bowl of tabouli by myself, then.

8% of the world is from europeon stock.

Source?

Nevertheless, we are responsible for the majority of the world economy, the majority of scientific and artistic achievement, and the relatively higher freedom and peace around the whole world. How, with this track record, could anyone wish to replace us with hispanics, Arabs, Africans, Indians, or even Chinese--all of whom are already far more numerous than us, and have done nothing to show for it?

In any other time, this would be called what it is: genocide.

In *any* other time? You realize the term 'genocide' wasn't even coined until the 1940s, don't you?

Sodra Djavul said...

Sodra jumps to the aid the mathematically challenged, shower curtain cape flowing wildly behind him...

"Put that in perspective; 12 murders were committed by illegal aliens. 12, out of over 15 thousand a year. (See link below) That's a disproportionately low rate compared to the population of the U.S. as a whole."

That's 12 Americans murdered every day by illegal aliens. So, 12 x 365 = 4,380. That's more than the death toll of a 9/11 carried out every single year by these innocent Mexican illegals. This 4,380 number, divided by the 17,034 committed in 2006 from your provided link, comes to a staggering 25% of all murders conducted in 2006. And this is ignoring the drunken driving, which I can personally attest is quite rampant.

So, these 9 million or so illegals, less than 2.5% of the population, is conducting 25% of all murder in this country.

Still think them so innocent?

- Sodra

Lucille said...

Apologies for hasty reading.

But I'm curious where you and Dinosaur are getting your info from. Because last time I checked, the government doesn't publish stats on crime by national origin of the perpetrator.

Sodra Djavul said...

Lucille,
There was a recent article on this, Illegal Aliens Murder 12 Americans Daily. I believe this was linked to by Drudge Report originally.

- Sodra

Afonso Henriques said...

Lucile,
I think you should be sorry by what you imply in all your comment but GoV exists exactly to debate ideas and to evolve. I will, by lack of time answer only hat was aimed at me.
I would gladly answer all your questions.

What precisely is at risk is the base route, the core of the most important country of the World, the United States of America.
It is becoming increasingly less and less European. I think we can say Europeans are being wiped out in the most powerfull country on earth, as well as in Europe.
The survival of the greatest Civilisation of men is at risk.

Please answer me, what do you think of an U.S.A. consisting in 30% blacks 30% Non White Hispanics 10% Asians and 50% European?
That may be our future, and I am not even American. According to Wikipedia whites are less than 50% in New York City, what do you think of that? What's the situation in Los Angeles?
Please, answer to my first question.

And I know the marriges aren't arranged though I know (or think) that people marry in order to create a family, have kids, etc. So it is a familiar "step" and the education we recieve from our parents is very important in defining who do we want to be accepted in our family.
Multicultural families were never encoureged, they were seen as non natural. What happened?

Lucille said...

Last December, Mac Johnson set out to investigate the number of homicides perpetrated by illegal aliens. Since the federal government would not provide any useful information, he contacted all 50 statehouses. Three months later, he had fewer than a dozen responses.

He then set out to statistically estimate the number of murders by illegal aliens based on available crime data and conservative estimates of the actually number of illegal aliens in the country – which, of course, nobody really knows.

Well, that's better, somewhat; but there's no substantial discussion of his methodology, nor any links to his research, so it's still far from satisfactory, in my mind.

Please answer me, what do you think of an U.S.A. consisting in 30% blacks 30% Non White Hispanics 10% Asians and 50% European?

I don't know. What should I think?

According to Wikipedia whites are less than 50% in New York City, what do you think of that?

I think it makes for an interesting and enjoyable place to be, as do family members of mine who live there. I don't plan to move there because of the cost of living, but I have no problem living in other mixed areas.

Sodra Djavul said...

Lucille said:
"Well, that's better, somewhat; but there's no substantial discussion of his methodology, nor any links to his research, so it's still far from satisfactory, in my mind."

Well, that's a fair criticism, I suppose. I personally would have been interested in details around his methodology as well. But unless it's being published by a government source I would bet that you'd have issues with the findings unless they showed a lower incidence of crime than the native population based on your previous assertion.

So can you join with me in requesting the government mandate that data on criminal activity also provide the associated legal/illegal status?

If not, that can only be considered a duplicitous argument.

- Sodra

Afonso Henriques said...

"Please answer me, what do you think of an U.S.A. consisting in 30% blacks 30% Non White Hispanics 10% Asians and 50% European?
I don't know. What should I think?"

What should you think? I don't know! I am not the thought police!
But I do think you should had already formulated such opinion. I don't like the fact that my country is (as some say, and I find possible) 10% non-Portuguese, If it was 50% non Portuguese we would have a civil war, no doubt. But the country is yours, not mine.
If you think that it ain't a problem... being wiped out like that, loosing power in your own home... I guess you are the ones for whom a Nation is a Constitution, right? I can not understand you, people. I try, but I can't...


"According to Wikipedia whites are less than 50% in New York City, what do you think of that?"
I think it makes for an interesting and enjoyable place to be, as do family members of mine who live there. I don't plan to move there because of the cost of living, but I have no problem living in other mixed areas."

So, I try to get this to my reality. Nobody in Europe would tolerate Nationals to be a minority in their own country, but for some Americans, it makes "an interesting and enjoyable place to be". Well, i would like to go to New York, I would like to go to Luanda, Angola and to go to Hong Kong, though I would also like to have a home to which I could return. A place where I rule.

It's implicit in your text that you live in a predominant white area, isn't it?
Why is that, if that's the case once multicultural places are so thriving?

Diamed said...

http://www.geocities.com/englishgateway/populationgrowth.html

According to the medium variant of the 1998 Revision of the official United Nations estimates and projections, by 2050 the world is expected to have 8.9 billion people, an increase of nearly half over the 2000 population. By 2050, the share of Asia will be at nearly 60 per cent, that of Africa will have more than doubled, to 20 per cent, and that of Latin America nearly doubled, to 9 per cent. Meanwhile the share of Europe will decline to 7 per cent, less than one third its peak level achieved at the beginning of the twentieth century. While in 1900 the population of Europe was three times that of Africa, in 2050 the population of Africa will be nearly three times that of Europe.

I would contest this number because I've seen lower estimates than this but it doesn't matter, it's near enough to make my point. Europeons are the tiny minority.

As to your objection about my use of the term that was recently coined, very cute. Would you prefer: "Retaining our modern day knowledge and vocabulary, but returning to any other pre-PC cultural epoch in our history, this would have been called what it is: genocide." But really picking on people for such smarmy and irrelevant aspects is rude, unhelpful, and just reveals your character nothing more.

Bela said...

Afonso you are mistaken because I was born in E. Europe thus I am well acquainted with anything pertaining to the European Existence. I made already my "independent research" both in Nazi death camp as a child and as a student political prisoner # EA2140 in a Communist Gulag.
I am now living in the So. US for over 30 years.
This is off topic you initiated.

I contest you argument in regard to Messico: if you believe American South-W. belongs to them then the whole Mehiko belongs to Spain or France for historical reason.
And you spin by stating "The race means nothing, their identity and traditions everything."
Quite the opposite, this is their slogan:
"Por La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada."
"Everything for the race. Everything outside the race, nothing."
Please don't mislead the posters.
http://www.americanpatrol.com/MECHA/MEChAindex.html

Baron Bodissey said...

Lou,

Gates of Vienna's rules about comments require that they be civil, temperate, on-topic, and show decorum. Your comment violated the last of these rules. We keep a PG-13 blog, and exclude foul language, explicit descriptions, and epithets. This is why I deleted your comment.

Use of asterisks is an appropriate alternative.

--------------------------

Lou Minatti said...

Lou, it's not about hate, it's about identity. Why should not America preserve her identity as a predominately "white" (nominally) Christian nation?

Oh please. Cut the horse***. It's about hating Mexicans. This crap about "identity", if you wanna drag that out the Mexicans have more of a claim than you do because they have more native American genes than you or I. The hate against Mexicans is no different than the hate against Italians 100 year ago. Back then our great-grandparents said the same: Italians are criminals (the Mafia!) who are here to steal our jobs.

Like I said, I'd rather be invaded by hard-working Catholics who share my vices than be invaded by non-working welfare leeches who want to cut my head off because I don't subscribe to their primitive 7th century religion.

Italian food: Good.
Mexican food: Good.
Halal food: Sucks a**.

Sodra Djavul said...

Perhaps I can add a little bit more to the American perception of cultural identity. I do not, and have never thought, that America is simply an idea enshrined in a historical document (the Constitution) which can be stamped on anyone who happens across our national border. That is nothing more than a recently invented Leftist meme, based in nothing but Leftist dogma, intended to convince the American population that their elites are simply being moral while debasing their country in favor of short-term power at the ballot box.

The politically incorrect truth is that Europeans and its "bastard stepchildren" America and Australia have for millenia ruled atop the civilizational, technological, and democratic pyramid. (I use the phrase "bastard stepchildren" loosely; I have great love for my country as I think you should too [or I'll bomb ya! heh]) And, yes, I'll say it: It was the creation of predominately white people. No offense, Alexander Hamilton!

But the difference between America and Europe is that we are basically a cross-bred mutt of most European nations, hence the ancient European rivalries were largely abandoned by new immigrants when the nationality of "American" was adopted. This was not automatic, of course: as each successive wave of European immigrants arrived, each faced their unique challenges to integration. But this country at least retained a 9-1 ratio of "European," or "white," until the mid-1960s. The fact that at least nominally nearly all could at least be considered nominally "Christian" (Catholic, Protestant, Methodist, etc.) certainly helped.

The only other significant minority up until this time period were predominately the descendants of freed slaves imported during the earliest days of our nation. They, too, hold equal claim to the American identity.

However, things changed radically under the influence of the Baby Boomer generation. The oft-mentioned "browning of America," ushered into law based upon the generational euphoria of the Civil Rights Movement, advocated that all cultures are equal, and hence no immigration controls should be necessary. Sadly, over the past 40 years we have seen that that simply is not the case.

I personally prefer the phrase "European" to "White." Our system of government was a direct outgrowth of European governmental evolution, and based in no way on Zulu tribal ceremonies, or whatever other schlock the Leftist elites attempt to pass off to children in the educational system today. I am willing to accept those who have been legal citizens in this country for several generations as Americans, but I don't think the fracturing of the American electorate into disparate minorities has been an unqualified good for the nation.

I apologize if the above was rambling, but I don't know how better to express my opinion on American identity better than that.

- Sodra

Bela said...

Sodra, you are mistaken: The wording according to which "America is an idea" is not leftist invention but Pres. Bush own public statement.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53023

'Bush doesn't think America should be an actual place'
Tancredo says president believes nation should be merely 'idea' without borders.

Afonso Henriques said...

"While in 1900 the population of Europe was three times that of Africa, in 2050 the population of Africa will be nearly three times that of Europe."

Shut up Diamed, you racist! lol

Don't you know that Africans have a thriving Civilisation, the most advanced in the planet! Europeans are becoming ever more the tiny minority because they don't have any cultur, any vallues, they are tribal, poor and they are all starving to death.
In Nature, th fittest survive, Europeans should know this better!


loooool

Afonso Henriques said...

Bela, according to Mexico (why are you writting Messico?), L Raza can not be racist. That's why:
They are descendents of European males and Native American females, right? How will they exclude a white man? They will accept white males interested in native american females and vice versa?

I still think La Raza is just an epithet to culture and ethnicity.

PRCalDude said...

I don't know. What should I think?
Good question.

The US will resemble any other Latin American country: blacks living in their various Sowetos and favelas, hispanics in their barrios, and upper-class whites living in guarded, gated communities. That's pretty much what you see in Los Angeles right now, except that most of the blacks have moved up to the northwest or to the south to get away from the Mexicans.

The girl who cuts my hair is a pretty average Mexican girl. Her stories are somewhat illusive. Her dad was an illegal immigrant from Culiacan who used to sell heroin in Los Angeles. He was finally deported after his seventh DUI, and he decided to remain in Mexico, abandoning his family in the US and starting an entirely new one. He now has three more kids. Her brother apparently scored an 800 on his SAT math, but just got expelled from school for fighting and now goes to continuation school as a senior. He's planning on attending a JC in the fall, and never applied to any universities. Her brother's best friend was just shot dead in an argument with some other Mexican gangsters who asked him, "Where are you from?" even though he didn't gang-bang himself.

In my old apartment in Torrance, the Mexican guy I lived next to told me he moved from Carson to get away from his old hood, where everyone was in a gang but him. He didn't move far enough, as the kids of the Mexican illegal immigrant family behind us started a gang. Fortunately, the eldest son was locked up (with the help of my testimony) for shooting somebody with a 9mm on the corner. This is in a neighborhood where, for the most part, white families own houses worth at least 3/4 a million dollars. As bad as the illegals are, their children are usually worse.

When you go out to restaurants, you can usually expect to receive at least one order that is completely wrong, and it will usually take forever to correct. Service from the Mexicans working at major department stores is likewise incompetent, insolent, and hostile for no reason other than one is a gabacho. You will have to worry about your significant other (especially if she's a white female) going out by herself at night.

Everyone lives in their own racially segregated neighborhood, except that incroachment of the Mexican neighborhoods on the white neighborhoods usually means that the whites start moving out in a trickle at first, and in a rapidly accelerating torrent later. I've often wondered what will happen when whites have nowhere else to move.

You can also expect to see signs in Spanish everywhere, as well as advertisements for radio stations called "La Raza" and bumper-stickers for radio shows called "Piolin" everywhere. Expect taco trucks, roach coaches, and Mexicans walking through columns of cars at stop lights trying to sell flowers. Expect Mexican illegals to be standing out in front of 7-11s, Home Depots, and other places glaring hostilely, pissing and depositing trash wherever they want.

I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

Almtnman said...

I don't get the "I hate Mezcans" stuff.

It's not about hate, it's about illegal activity!

Bela said...

Afonso, porque Ud. no quiere comprender palabras sencillas como ""Por La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada."
Estoy viviendo acerca de la frontera Mexicana y por eso tengo mucho mas conocimientos que Ud.
___________________________________

Why don't you want accept the fact that the CHICANOS (US born Mexicanos) in the US slogan is "Everything for the race. Everything outside the race, nothing."
Why don't you do some research on the subject instead pontificating that I am the ignorant?
Did you check the home page of MECha?
Here it is:
http://www.umich.edu/~mechaum/Natconst.html

This is their Official Constitution:
(I copied and pasted)
Preamble

Chicano and Chicana students of Aztlan must take upon themselves the responsibilities to promote Chicanismo within the community, politicizing our RAZA with an emphasis on indigenous consciousness to continue the struggle for the self-determination of the Chicano people for the purpose of liberating Aztlan.
(Aztlan is the So. US)
We are the oppressors and they want to liberate Aztlan.
___________________________________
This forum should remain factual lest quickly will turn into incoherent troll.
Do you have any first hand experience with Mexico? I am living in Los Angeles for 25 years, I speak Spanish, I know their RACE (LA RAZA!!!) project too well.

Bela said...

Afonso please read this:
http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html
MEChA is an Hispanic separatist organization that encourages anti-American activities and civil disobedience. The radical members of MEChA who refer to themselves as "Mechistas," romanticize Mexican claims to the "lost Territories" of the Southwestern United States -- a Chicano country called Aztlan. In its national constitution, MEChA calls for self-determination by its members to liberate Aztlan. MEChA's national constitution starts out: "Chicano and Chicana students of Aztlán must take upon themselves the responsibilities to promote Chicanismo within the community, politicizing our Raza with an emphasis on indigenous consciousness to continue the struggle for the self-determination of the Chicano people for the purpose of liberating Aztlán."
At the MEChA National Conference on March 15 - 18, 2001, the official "MEChA Philosophy" was ratified. An excerpt from the document states: "as Mechistas, we vow to work for the liberation of Aztlan."

Afonso Henriques said...

First of all, Bela, I was not labelling you as ignorant, nor something of that kind.

I have no doubts that you may have mais conhecimentos que eu once you are the one living in LA.

But I am curious. What is your background? Are you Anglo? You speak Spanish, your nick is the common latin word for beauty, though you don't associate with La Raza, are you Argentinan or something? I am not setereotyping you, I would like to know that in order to try to "get your point".

"the CHICANOS slogan is "Everything for the race. Everything outside the race, nothing""

I accept that. I just think that if you accept non white Mexicans in the U.S.A, you will have to accept the all package. You have black associations too. Oprah for exepmle, supports Barack Obama for clear racist purrposes. What I have seen of Oprah shows fit the "Everything for the race, anything against the race" mantra.
That's why I would like to know you're background.
Because if you are part of La Raza that want to integrate as a normal American, turning your back to other Mexicans, I do not support it. If you are a white American from Los Angeles who think La Raza should pop in but living politics behind, I do not agree. Evry people has the right to be represented and the U.S.A have to choose wether they want to be balkanized or united in European vallues - let's cal it that way.

"Do you have any first hand experience with Mexico?"
No. Despite many people around me have already been to Mexico, and despite I have heard a lot of Mexico, I have never benn there.

"I know their RACE (LA RAZA!!!) project too well"
Is this I don't get. They don't have a racial project. They want just to control the land and expell the others. It's not racist, specially when you are multirracial. It is the same as say that Native American reservations are a sign of Native American Racial opression.

In my opinion, America should be what it was in the fifties. A white country.
But the U.S.A seems to want to be a melting pot, not of Europeans, but of everything. I think it is stupid. But I think that USA is Americans problem untill they start cry for help like Brittain in the WWII.

So, if you let in non white Mexicans, you will have to accept them.
I am against the turning apart of the United States of America. But, if Americans are not against I am not going to fight for them.

If your against the entry os such people, than, we have the same opinion.

I just think we can not disassociate non white Mexicans (90% of Mexico) with La Raza. As we can not disassociate muslims with Islam.
What we can do is say:
GET OUT of my country, you foreign!

It is not racial. But it is.
Why should we pay so much importance to race? The problem is not the Mexican racism but Mexicans themselves. (Or the Americans who want them in)

Bela said...

Afonso, very quickly: My name is Hungarian, born there, been to Commie Gulag, France, So. America both Spanish and Portugese, Asia, American citizen for 30 years.

Please understand, there are two entirely different idea in circulation that people tend to get confused about: Multiculturalism and Multi-racialism (I coined this word). Americans (white)accept the second but reject the first.
It means that I don't care about your physical characteristics provided you speak English, accept our customs and cultures and you do refrain to impose your alien belief system upon us.
The gist of it: Muli-racial society is OK, but Multi-CULTURAL one is rejected. I don't want to press #1 on my phone for English.

Mexicans (in the US):reject Anglo culture and customs, Se habla Espanol, no English speaking, WHITE EUROPEANS ARE INVADERS, Our race (Mestizo) must rule because this land is ours!

If they state officially that they want to seced from the US BASED ON RACIAL ground, then why are you writing this:

"Is this I don't get. They don't have a racial project. They want just to control the land and expell the others. It's not racist, specially when you are"

Is it not racist to expel me solely because I am not Mestizo Chicano?

Afonso Henriques said...

Well,
I have to admit I was not understanding those concepts of muticulturalism and multiracialism.

Now I understand them well enough to participate in a decent conversation.
It would have saved a lot of time if I knew what you were talking about.

You say:
"I don't care about your physical characteristics provided you speak English, accept our customs and cultures and you do refrain to impose your alien belief system upon us."

But it is not just this.

First, multiracism will lead to multiculturalism.
That's why we can speak of an afro-american culture. Though we can not seriously speak of an Italo-American culture or an Irish-American culture. The specifications in those last two exemples are so few that we can only be stereotyping when one speak of Italian American.
The mainstream (white European) American culture is unified by two main aspects.
1)The predominance of Anglo Saxon/English culture
2)A very mixed European comunity, especially in big cities, which creates what I am going to call a white melting pot.

Given this, one can say that multiracism leads to multiculturalism.
But your sentence made me undrstand (yes, it was very profound, I started to understand better America(ns) because of you. I am greatfull) that you Americans have no problems with multiculturalism (from other races) as long as it is not going to knock on your door. Well European Nations have usually more soldaritty whereas Ameicans (from USA) despize the others (blacks, indians, etc).

But, this leads to another big thread. How will americans treat Hispanics?
First, its clear that white latin Americans when going to America will have to decide wethr if they want to be real Americans or Mexicans/Brasilians etc. It's all in their hands. But, and the rest?
How are you going to label mestizos? Are they white? Are they Native Americans? It seems that the United States are being invaded by Native Americans but the final question is: Will you treat white Latin Americans so well that only the mestizos will reivindicate territorries? Or will we see white members of La Raza?

Is there a comun latin American solidarity in the United States that transcends race and country or are they so divided as they are in their countries?
What do white Cubans think of La Raza? And "brown" Venezuelans? What do white Brasiians, Argentinians and Uruguayans think of La Raza? and non white Brasilians and Peruvians.

Are the Latin Americans devided in the U.S.A.?
If yes, in what lines?
Do you think that there are no such thing as white people south of the border, and as so they will all be another multirracial group?

Please, I would apreciate if you answered at least to this three specifical questions.

"Is it not racist to expel me solely because I am not Mestizo Chicano?"

Well, it may be. But they are expelling you not because you are white but because they reject your "white" vallues. Belive me, expelling white woman is not their main concerns, if needed, and just because the race, they will say that the father of their father was white too and as so, white woman can be "part of the family". The same to white men as long as they accept chicano vallues.
Don't tell nobody but in both Portugal and Spain we know that Latin Americans of all races prefr European people.
My conclusion is that it is few of racist and a lot of culture. Race is just the veichle they found to claim the land.
A lot of people will consider it racist. Myself, personally will consider that it may be racist but it is way more cultural.
Did I made me understood?

Bela said...

Afonso lets go through real quick:
1.In your sentences the color WHITE is very often used. In the EU context it's might be true because all Europeans are white. But OUTSIDE Europe people are of mixed race even they look white or black or else. That is why the question is never the color but your cultural upbringing. In the US color/race is irrelevant. Multi-racial society will NOT turn into multicultural one: multiethnic kids go to American school, learn English they grow up as Americans.
Japanese, Nigerian,Italian etc. second generation people no longer belong to their ancestral land.

2. Mexican problem: Complex issue.
Americans resent ILLEGAL immigration because of the social burden they create.They don't assimilate they want to remain Mexicans, don't learn English etc.
They disregard Anglo-America (including blacks, asians, euros, etc.)and regard the US as 2nd. Mexico.

3.There is hostility between Latino groups: Los Cubanos in Miami are political refugees, for the most part educated people and they don't like Mexicans who are mostly uneducated peasant from rural Mexico.

Please understand Mexico is problematic because is connected physically to their country so they have support from home.
Brazilians, Venezuelans, Argentinians are cut off from they land so they integrate easily.

Answer to your question: Yes,Latin Americans are divided in the US. They came for freedom or to make money and they cannot care less about crazy Mexican Chicanos Aztlan project. Think: an Italian-Argentinean or Quechua Peruvian Indian have nothing to do with La Raza, nor have the Caribbean Latinos. A Cuban is not Mestizo but white/black mix.

Mestizos are white/indian mix light brown complexion.

How Americans treat Hispanics? If they are LEGAL immigrants then they are OK but Illegals with no English are not welcome.

Afonso Henriques said...

Well Bela, I really think we should not debate more in this topic once it is so outdated.

I want to thank you for your answers.

I'll just make the following remarks:

"In your sentences the color WHITE is very often used."
Yes, I prefer to use European, but because you are in America, I would have had to said Euro-American, white is faster. It is a loose term in my preception tough.

"Multi-racial society will NOT turn into multicultural one"
Yes they do, you have a vibrant afro-american culture and a dying native-american one different from the mainstreem.

"multiethnic kids go to American school, learn English they grow up as Americans."
In Europe as well. That is not enough. Sometimes it makes me even wonder if segregation from the beginning isn't a better option because, at least here, you will have segregation. Ex. In my area a cousin of mine frequented a 60% white elementary school, went to a 80% white next level school.
There are an high school near a professional school here. A professional school is where you go if you can not make it to the high school. The high school is some 95% white, the professional school is some 15% white.

"Think: an Italian-Argentinean or Quechua Peruvian Indian have nothing to do with La Raza, nor have the Caribbean Latinos. A Cuban is not Mestizo but white/black mix."
First, there are white Cubans and there are black Cubans and in blacks, I am including mixed Cubans.
Secondly, a Quechua Peruvian has nothing to do with La Raza?
Sorry dear, they have.
All over Latin America there is a leftist and indgenous moovement which is gaining force. Far left governments are taking power, governments who "want" to give the power to the indigenous people.
I know they venerate Fidel, they see him as the starter as the moovment, they venerate Che Guevara too (two whites, though).
Venezuela, Bolívia, Equador, Perú, Honduras are countries which are under such governments. Cuba, is part of it; Lula from Brasil is considere a traitor by such political fellows. Despite is party wants to "give the power away from whites to the people", Brasil as a country too important with a very European/Western segment of its population and Lula did not went that left.
Reading some conservative South American blogs we can see that a new political mooviment was born and is taking power. The Chicano mooviment is, in my view, just the local moviment where you are.