Saturday, January 19, 2008

Defeating the Big Lie

Our Czech correspondent Lugundum has written previously about immigration issues in the Czech Republic. His latest email concerns the wider issue of immigration throughout the continent of Europe and in the rest of the Western world, and what it portends for the countries affected by it:

Dear Baron,

Due to lack of time and the impossibility of reacting to readers’ comments, and from the need to address our situation in a more complex way, I have decided to write you this mail in which I have taken on the issue from different angle. I hope you will find it worthy to read and maybe to post on you website.

It seems that my mail on the situation in the Czech Republic instigated some discussions from which I learned how bad the situation is in Sweden, and since that time new interesting articles on the situation in Spain and France have been posted. I think this is an ideal opportunity to address another reason why our countries are suffering from an unprecedented level of immigration and consequent decay that kills our civilization.

The Big Liar of EuropeWhilst we all are aware of far-left and left ideologists in socialist and green parties throughout the continent, the role of “center-right” parties and business interests has remained unaddressed for too long.

Please note that the main center-right parties in all countries I have listed support mass immigration. The reason for that is very simple — their rich backers are calling for cheap foreign labor. This helps them not only to depress wages directly by employing cheaper immigrants, but also to put a pressure on native workers to accept lower salaries. Needless to say, whilst the gain from cheap labor remains in the hands of those unscrupulous entrepreneurs, the losses — and there are an awful lot of them — remain to be paid by taxpayers; that is, by us.

Please consider this short and incomplete list of direct economic consequences of mass immigration for which we have to pay:

  • The collapse of social systems.The state has to pay welfare for displaced native workers whilst the tax revenues from immigrant workers are lower because of depressed wages. Please note that you have also to pay for welfare of unemployed immigrants and their family members.
  • The collapse of health systems. The people from Third World countries suffer from many illnesses which are expensive to heal. In the USA this means that hospitals are closing because they are unable to cover costs for serving Mexican nationals. In the UK this leads to the terrible conditions in hospitals.
  • The collapse of transportation systems. Public transportation has became unsafe in recent decades, so many people including immigrants are using cars. Traffic jams are a characteristic sign of our lives. Sometimes they are visible even from space.
  • The collapse of power and water grids and other infrastructure in urban areas. Blackouts occur more and more often in both Europe and the USA as the grid systems dimensioned for fewer people are collapsing due to the excessive demand. And I could also mention recent water shortages in the UK. Whilst British officials pondered all possible and impossible reasons they have carefully omitted discussing overpopulation and its influence.

So we have a list of problems, which are “discussed” by our politicians and in our newspapers but without hinting about the true reason. However, what they do mention is the way they intend to cure those problems:

- - - - - - - - -
  • An overloaded social system? We need more immigrants to ease the situation with their contributions!
  • Ailing health care? We must import more health specialists!
  • Broken infrastructure? We need more immigrants to build more bridges, roads and sewer systems!

This is a spiral of death for our civilization. For the greed of a few profiteers many of us will suffer. This approach shifts us from economy of innovation and ingenuity to the economy of cheap labor oversupply. In this system everyone except the elites loses his dignity and freedoms due to the loss of economic safety.

Everyone could be easily replaced by an IT specialist from India or a physician from Africa now. Oversupply of cheap labor makes science, innovation and ingenuity redundant. It is like Czarist Russia in the 19th century with its “muzhiks” working in agriculture, manufacturing, and mines for literally a few potatoes and a flask of vodka. Therefore there was no need to invest in machinery and development like in countries with relatively expensive labor force (Germany and the UK). This is the reason Russia lost in WWI.

But the elites make nice profits — no wonder that the richest man on the planet is Carlos Slim from Third World Mexico.

In such a world all human rights are relative and not worth the paper they are printed on. You can be prosecuted and abused for criticism directed at the unsavory aspects of any immigrant/religious group which is imported into your country. Criminality is rampant and the welfare system is collapsing. Cruel cults and obnoxious ideologies are gaining ground whilst your own culture faces persecution and extinction as it poses a danger to elites of our “New World Order”.

Would you like to live in such a country?

But fortunately we (still) have an alternative. We could still choose the type of society where the work is valued, skilled workers are respected, and ingenuity together with innovation supported. Increased productivity and longevity will compensate for lower fertility.

This approach works well, and Japan is a fine example. It has an older population and fewer children than European countries, with almost nonexistent immigration. So according to the pro-immigration lobby Japan economy should have collapsed a long time ago. Instead their social system is working and health care is fine. Prophecies of Japan’s doom must be moved farther into the future each year.

I hope I debunked those half-truths and common myths espoused by our contemporary elites and which together constitute the ‘Big Lie’ of our time: that we need mass immigration.

I genuinely believe that without addressing and defeating this ‘Big Lie’ we won’t be able to save our civilization from violent Islam or other downfalls.

Kind regards,
Lugundum

44 comments:

Simon de Montfort said...

A very well-constructed argument here, stating The Obvious but stating it nicely,with some new ground broken about the threat to 'infrastructure;

I re-submit my "Clean Your Own D+mn House" Act, supplemented by the Cut Your Own Lawn Act ( or cover it with little round rocks, which is the Irish Way ), the Ban Most Fast Food Franchises Act,
the Hire Citizens To Remodel Your House Or Do It Yourself Act, and numerous other bits of legislation
the Dail and Parliament have yet to seriously consider

Jungle Jim said...

Here are the typical arguments given in favor of mass illegal immigration in the USA. Orza ran twice unsuccessfully for Governor of Oklahoma. What he doesn't mention in the article is that he was, until recently, the owner of a chain of restaurants and needed mucho cheap labor.

Diamed said...

I hate to be marxist but this is a clear class war. The top and the bottom are conspiring against the middle. The real question is why are there still middle class liberals voting against their own economic interests? If not for the PC ideologues blinding people and the witch hunts against racism this would never have been allowed. But people are too afraid, intimidated, or brainwashed to attempt to save themselves even when it all unfolds before their eyes. It's a real tag-team.

TC said...

"Please note that the main center-right parties in all countries I have listed support mass immigration. The reason for that is very simple — their rich backers are calling for cheap foreign labor. This helps them not only to depress wages directly by employing cheaper immigrants, but also to put a pressure on native workers to accept lower salaries. Needless to say, whilst the gain from cheap labor remains in the hands of those unscrupulous entrepreneurs, the losses — and there are an awful lot of them — remain to be paid by taxpayers; that is, by us."

1) In all of Europe you have VERY powerful Unions. No entrepreneur can lower wages or hire cheap foreign labor below the salaries agreed upon by the Unions.

2) Germany for example has the 35 hour week, an average of 6 weeks of paid vacation, double the number of holidays of workers in the US. A company or a private individual pays approx. 50% in taxes on profits/wages to the state.

3) A German entrepreneur who pays an employee 30 Euros an hour, pays an additional 24 Euros in social security, health insurance and other benefits to the state.

I usually agree with most of your comments, Lugundum. But I honestly do not see any merit for the case you are trying to make here. It’s not use digging up Marx for the counter-jihad! It is true though, that there is no center anymore in European politics. Social democrat ideology is the only thing that still gets you the votes. It’s junkie politics. The majority gets taken care of by the Nanny State and votes for the Nanny State in return. The entrepreneurs are the ones taking the risk and getting screwed in return. No wonder many of them leave the EU.

Henrik said...

I guess we need to force the qualified people to work harder so the ones without qualifications can remain on welfare.

That, of course, requires certain authoritarian measures to be taken by our governments. Dissent from that line can be 'discouraged' as hate speech and done away with.

If that should prove insufficient, use more force.

[Irony off]

What we're seeing is a gradual collapse of also economical freedom. We can't guarantee that every citizen will be free of suffering, we can only do a 'best effort' and let those who have skills and dilligence benefit most.

Mussolini tried the totalitarian approach (meaning state-guarantees-everything), as described in Liberal Fascism. That didn't work very well.

When I'm done with the book, I'll write a review. It's a completely fascinating and urgently relevant tome of 500 pages...

Lugundum said...

Please note that I'm not making a case against free market. I'm making case against unscrupulous bussinesses who are misusing the whole concept. On many examples I'm illustrating why it is happening and what consequences we will face (fatal).

It is not about marxism. Definitely not.

FluffResponse said...

Dymphna and the Baron: You may want to avoid commenting on this; but you will want to read the latest from Robert Spencer:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/019648.php

Afonso Henriques said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Henrik said...

fluffresponse, it's seen and being commented upon.

It would be such a shame if Robert fell to the vitriolic ways of Charles Johnson...

Afonso Henriques said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Afonso Henriques said...

"I hope I debunked those half-truths and common myths espoused by our contemporary elites and which together constitute the ‘Big Lie’ of our time"
I think you didn't helped here. I am sorry but I think you are a bit confused and get away from the real question.

"Whilst we all are aware of far-left and left ideologists in socialist and green parties throughout the continent, the role of “center-right” parties and business interests has remained unaddressed for too long."

That's where I do not agree.
A right wing patriot will hire ethnic Nationals (and will be labeled as racist) in order to improove the National Economy and its own people.
Those who don't, are left wing, or as I read in this blog Rino's Conservatives/Right wing (Republicans) in name only.

Of course economical interests are important, but I think they can be labeled as leftist.

"the main center-right parties in all countries I have listed support mass immigration."

The reason for that is that the general public and the European Union are not ready yet to vote in, or tolerate, a big party which is openly xenophobic.
Think what would happen if a big party in Europe wanted to stop immigration?
Would the European Union fall in love for that party?
The party would also turn explicity right wing and the centre voters would turn away from that party which would, logically, loose votes and power.

This problem is rooted in the leftist Europeans.
For exemple, in my country, a far leftist one, we have 5 parties in the Parliament:
1)PCP- A communist party from the good old days. It is alied with the greens.
2)BE - Another far right party which name stands for Leftist bloque. It is the party of all the teenagers who want a country without rules. Alter mundilistic; Post Modernist; etc...
3)PS - The Socialists. It considers itself a left wing party.
4)PSD - The social democrats. They don't consider themselves a right wing party. They say they are at the right of PS.
5)CDS-PP - The party which defines itself as a CENTRE-right party.

The two far left parties are more or less the size of the centre-right party.

Then we have the right wing parties which are jokes. Neo-Nazis wannabes, Failed former leaders of CDS-PP, and others with no real power until now.

Our central bloque, which has always more than 65% of te votes is leftist. Across Europe the thing is not so bad as in Portugal but is not much different.

The thing is, nobody in Europe can say he is conservative or right wing because it is a political suicide. Why? Because those Europeans who vote are leftist. That's the problem!

And that's why even the Tories in England support mass immigration, because if they don't, they will get less votes than those they get if they do it.

EUROPE AND EUROPEANS HAVE TO STOP BLAMING THE POLITICIANS AND START BLAMING THEIRSELVES.
It is always the people fault in democracy.

The rest are bad excuses.

Afonso Henriques said...

I think it's time we stop demonising Nazism/Fascism.

For exemple, why put Coebbels in the image?

Why call it Islamofascism?

I get what we are doing by that is creating euphemisms.

Afonso Henriques said...

Baron, please say something about the link fluffresponse left us!

"In the recent bitter controversy between Charles Johnson and a group of counterjihadists over the nature of the VB, it does appear quite clearly (...), if it wasn't already, that Charles was right."

Wasn't Robert Spencer one of "the good guys"?

He seems a lot multicultural and seems he wants a multicultural Europe. I just can not get it how can we accept people but demanding them to get rid of their identity. it is cruel. If we want to accept muslims, we have to accept all the package.

Lugundum said...

Alfonso,

because fascism, nazism and communism are the absolute cotradictions for what we stand for. They are absolute lows of humanity and in case they prevail they would be final dot of our civilization.

I stand for dignity and freedom. All those ideologies are total enemies to them.

M. Simon said...

I'm not making the case against the free market. I'm making the case against the guy who will take a lower salary than I will. Them Polacks will work hard for practically nothing.

We need to keep out cheap labor and cheap products and maintain wages and purchasing power.

Once we get government to put guns to people's heads we can get every one to cooperate. Which is why we need the EU. Or not.

===

BTW the USA is working on solving the power problem.

WB-7 First Plasma

While the EU is stumbling along with ITER.

We have a saying for all this in the USA.

Stuck On Stupid

===

You want to maintain your wages - become more valuable. Work harder. It is the American way.

It appears that socialism has infected even the capitalists. You know what that is called? National Socialism. Didn't you Euros go down that road once? Wasn't once enough?

Simon de Montfort said...

Not such a good thread here, and coincidentailly no one took my post seriously. Oh, well........

That fellow who was talking about Deutschland and the Power of Unions didn't mention that unions for some service industries have agreed to relatively low wages, which attract foreign workers because those low-for-Germany wages are high for Albania, etc

There are also thousands of small immigrant-family businesses, particularly restaurants, which are exempt from most labor laws and can pay as little as they want

I can recommend an excellent Inidan take-away in Charlottenburg ( Berlin ) with great food and cheap prices and everyone is part of the same family. These people are NOT rquired to be paid 'minimum wage'--or let's just say that they are not so paid and there are many ways around the laws

Blood is thicker than bureaucracy

If we want to protect and restore European societies, we need to cut off immigration NOW, and then work on gradually ( or not so gradually ) removing foreign workers

To prevent a collapse of the economy, we need to re-structure the economy. EU fat-cats already put stifling restrictions on entrepreneurs; whilst removing many of those, we need to add some new ones.

That's not Marxism--that's facing 2008 European Realities with methods that borrow from 'left' and 'right' ( although those terms have become meaningless )

M. Simon said...

In America we accept Muslims. We don't accept Sharia.

Read the blog Muslims Against Sharia.

If America can do it why not Europe?

Oh. I forgot. You sent all your misfits here and we are doing very nicely thank you.

However, we are American misfits. We left the old country behind.

The misfits start new businesses at a prodigious rate. Euros depend on big corps for new ideas. A rather ponderous system.

Afonso Henriques said...

Lugundum,
first, my name is AFONSO HENRIQUES, not Alfonso.

Look to what you have written:
"because fascism, nazism and communism are the absolute cotradictions for what we stand for. They are absolute lows of humanity and in case they prevail they would be final dot of our civilization."
That and nothing is th same.
You did not said nothing particular and you did not provided any arguments, which makes me think that you don't like fascism and nazism because somebody told you it was bad.

As the next commenter putted it: "It appears that socialism has infected even the capitalists". PC as well.

You seem to do not know why fascism and nazism are "evil".

Simon,

"We have a saying for all this in the USA.
Stuck On Stupid!
It appears that socialism has infected even the capitalists. You know what that is called? National Socialism. Didn't you Euros go down that road once? Wasn't once enough?"

I've questioned myself that question many times before, and you know what?

When a people, a nation, is being replaced by an other; When peoples with centuries, if not milennia, of History are being replaced by others less sucssessfull and are treated as second class citizens in the countries theirs forefathers died to defend,
National Socialism starts to look quiet appealing.

Hitler knew how to expell the sentiments of the populace that felt the jews were being favoured over them.

Actually, Jews were expelled from all the countries of Europe at least once in History.

If you want to call it National Socialism, call it but we will not have an Hitler trying to create an European Union by strenth because that Union was already created and is rulled by some hidden Eurocrats. If such National Socialism emerge, it will be agaist this European Union "united in diversity" and it will be pan-European (like the Aryan race of Hitler) but making no destintions on who is superior and who is inferior.

As Simon de Monfort puts it:

"If we want to protect and restore European societies, we need to cut off immigration NOW, and then work on gradually ( or not so gradually ) removing foreign workers"

And the sad thing, it is true.
The better it comes, the better. I have no doubts that during my life, I will see bloodbaths all over Europe that will make Yugoslavia look pretty.

Homophobic Horse said...

I smell demagogy.

The comparisons to Goebels and Stalin do you no favours, they may even assist our enemies. The EU is a new kind of government; it has come to power through a coup, but it is unlike anything seen before in a manner that Hitler and Mussolini were unlike anything seen before. The EU is the culmination of utopian liberalism and a province for Armies of Lawyers and Pen Pushers. As such it can never be a robust Republic, Empire, Kingdom or dictatorship (though that last word is quite appropriate). It can't even send 10 helicopters on a humanitarian mission to Durfur. It is a feeble last try at latter day mediocracy during the final hours of the Enlightenment.

Afonso Henriques said...

Simon,
"In America we accept Muslims. We don't accept Sharia.
If America can do it why not Europe?"

America, more particularly the United States of America is getting weak because it is built on idea(l)s or, even if they are not built in idea(l)s, the Americans can not see that.
America was a super power by 1918, before that it was just a place to where the Europeans could run away, where blacks were enslaved and Native Americans were hunted.

Europe is built by blood, and it has been constructed over blood.

You know what? Blood is much stronger than idea(l)s.

Now everybody wants to be American, because it is easy and cool but even Rome, a super power for 2000 years, felt apart... You will fall. And then you will not be able to live in a country built by idea(l)s, things don't work that way.

Europe, constructed by blood over blood, has been both weak and strong and has continued proud.
We have fought and won over
Cartaghenians
Xerxe's world wide Empiere
The Huns
The Islamic Moors
The Islamic Turks
The partly Islamic Mongols
and others.

We have survived against all ods, which smetimes were overwhelming, because we fought by honour and by the desire of protecting our wifes and sisters and to provide a better life for our daughters.

And we built this civilisation (including the USA) by the way.

Do you still hava a doubt that Europe will survive?

We survived the black plague which killed one third of the continnent and the civilisations kept advancing.

Last weekend I saw a group of Portuguese Nationalists (the soft kind/ non neo nazi) selling t-shirts aluding to mass immigration.

The slogans in the t-shirts which featured an image of the anti-jihadist first King, D. Afonso Henriques were:

"RECONQUISTA
Fizemo-lo uma vez, fá-la-emos de novo"
translating...
"RECONQUEST
We did it once, (we) will do it again"

That's the spirit of Europe.
She is envy and disired by all, she has few chances of surviving, she faces constant attempts of rape but she always manage to get out, pure, beautifull, superior.
And one day she will walk over you showing her divine superiority.

M. Simon said...

Here in the USA we have immigration scares every 30 years or so. The Chinese in the 1850s. The Irish in the 1880s. Eastern Europeans (My grand parents) in the 1900s. etc.

We have been continually been "replaced by others". And yet in two or three generations they turn into regular Americans.

I had some Hispanic neighbors a few years back. I speak better Spanish than they do and I can barely manage beans and bus tickets.

Americans have a knack for this. I'd bet the ranch on it. Or is it ranchero?

The key for us is that we all subscribe to American law (The Constitution - it is in the oath of citizenship).

Euros have it tougher because Euro nations are not law based but ethnic based. Maybe it is time for a change.

Stop protecting and figure out how to be more competitive.

You know how we are going to drive cheap farm labor out of America? With robots. Who is working on it? Small companies.

You think it is bad competing against cheap labor? Wait til you have to compete with cheap robots.

Better practice competing with cheap labor while you have a chance.

M. Simon said...

Horse,

The EU is National Socialism without the dashing uniforms.

The theory behind the EU is "we can't compete".

The theory behind the USA is "you make shirts, we make iPhones".

M. Simon said...

America freed the slaves in 1865 and stopped hunting Indians by 1880.

I have no doubt that Europe will survive. Even if America has to rescue you from yourselves. Again.

As to the power of ideas -

Ask Karl Marx
Ask Thomas Jefferson
Heck ask Mohammed

Of the three which do you think will be dominant in the world in 100 years? I'm betting on Jefferson.

Euros just can't figure out how mongrels like the USA do it. Clue: mongrelness prevents inbreeding.

Yes Europe has been based on blood. Which is why so much regularly flows in the streets. I can see it coming.

For 100 years America has been sliding into fascism. Yet the gulags and gas chambers always seem to be happening some where else. Is this a trend or just happenstance?

Tom Wolfe said: “The dark night of fascism is always descending in the United States and yet lands only in Europe."

You like blood? Expect to see a lot of it running in the streets.

Lugundum said...

Simon de Montfort, I welcome your contributions :) as I welcome all other contributions. Thanks for your support.

Afonso , sorry for misreading your name. Mea culpa.

homophobic horse , I thing BB used Goebbels as an illustration of the term "Big Lie". I'm not sure if you are suggesting that my text is demagogy. In that case I would like ask you to be more specific. My intention was only to describe problems of contemporary system qnd offer a better working alternative. Feel free to criticise my assumptions and suggestions.

M. Simon, I'm making case against the immigration from economical reasons. My point is that such an immigration is unnecessary.

Your point on history of immigration is interesting however it doesn't refute my argumentation.

Your point is that all people from your previous immigration assimilated. I agree. But what abou the last way trigerred by Kennedy reforms? Are the majority of Latinos assimilating? What about other minorities? Are they asked to? What about the consequences? More Americans have told me that the 'melting pot' is dead and not working anymore.

And please this is not about any nazism/communism/fascism. Do not use them to smear the opponent.

Unfortunately I'm not able to continue this discussion as I'm in hurry and sorry for not responding your comments and questions as I'm out of time.

Baron Bodissey said...

Lugundum et al. --

Yes, I used Goebbels because of the "Big Lie". Sorry -- I thought it was obvious. :(

M. Simon said...

Nazism, communism, fascism are all variants on socialism. Europe has that disease bad. America has escaped its worst features - so far.

It is exactly the thing which is at the core of the rot.

As to assimilation. We get the occasional honor killing in America. Why? Muslims are assimilating without effort and some parents don't like it.

American culture is popular. Hadn't you noticed? I seem to read screeds against it all over the world. Seducing the youth. Destroying the old ways. Heh.

BTW assimilation is a second and third generation thing in America. It is not instantaneous. It is irresistible.

Queen said...

What we are running up against here is the tyranny of the "Everybody gets to be racist except white folks" mind-grok that's been going on in the US for quite some time, and it's unfortunately spread to Europe, Canada, Australia and New Zealand as well. No one seems to think it's absurd for the "everybody gets to be racist except white folks" tyranny to be applied to the indigenous people who have occupied Europe for 40,000 years or so. But think how absurd it is to invite people of a different race into a country that your people have occupied for 40,000 years, then give them all kinds of special favors and perks at the expense of the indigenous people, including the right to organize along racial/ethnic lines that you vociferously deny to the indigenous people. Stripped of the ideological hysteria surrounding "racism", it's insane on the face of it. No other race of people does this --imagine the Chinese or East Indians acting in a similar fashion. You can't even become a citizen of India or China unless you are ethnically Indian or Chinese, but immigrants from these countries are quite happy to benefit from minority preferences, perks and racial/ethnic solidarity groups in Western countries. What's the solution to the conundrum we have constructed for ourselves? I have no idea. For me in the US something started to go off in my mind when I came face to face with the unabashed racism/group identity of the illegal alien la raza groups marching in our streets two years ago demanding "rights" to which they are not entitled. Their screams of "viva la raza" (Long Live The Race), delineated the ludicrousness of the "everybody gets to be racist except white folks" mind-grok for me in a most uncomfortably way. My tolerance for this paradigm gets thinner and thinner every day. As is my tolerance for those who so brutally enforce it (i.e. white liberals and marxists). Sorry if that offends anyone, but step back and think about the whole absurdity of the double-standards we live under. Think about how Barack Obama can freely belong to a black nationalist church and not have his career instantly derailed because of it -- and the double standards just keep going on and on and on.

Afonso Henriques said...

Lugundum,
don't worry about that.

M Simon,
stop fooling us around!
Unti the 1960s in America or you were European or you were nothing. It is quiet ethnic to me.
The melting pot was a European meltimg pot.
How can you contest this?

"Euros have it tougher because Euro nations are not law based but ethnic based. Maybe it is time for a change."
No it is not!
Multiculturalism sucks. I bet you are one of those who think colonisation is the devils tool, why is that?
And why so, "maybe it's time" for Europe to be colonised?
No mullicultural country have really work, except, perhaps, Switzerland. And Switzerland has some well defined cultual History.
I don't want to have second class citizens in my country just because they are born a bit darker as in Brasil or the United States.

Every country is ethnic based but in America where we know what happened to Indians. That will have to happen to Europeans in order for Europe to not have that "ethnic spirit".

"The theory behind the EU is "we can't compete".
The theory behind the USA is "you make shirts, we make iPhones"

It is a good theory for the U.S.A, I hope you continue with that.
In what concearns to the European Union, you are right. But that concept is, by itself, anti Europe because Europe has evolved based in competition, where European Nation States were always in a fiercing competition against one another. Where do you think Americans went get that theory? To Africans? To the natives?

"Even if America has to rescue you from yourselves. Again."
You rescue us like a strong son rescues his old man. It's your obligation to do so. Its imoral to let your Civilisation perish in its cradlle. Because you, I presume, are not less European than me.

"Of the three which do you think will be dominant in the world in 100 years? I'm betting on Jefferson."
That's ridiculous! It's evident Islam will still around in the next 100, 200 maybe 1500 years.
The Islamic Civilisation is one of the top three of Humanity, Islam is thriving, no one can kill Islam.

"Yes Europe has been based on blood. Which is why so much regularly flows in the streets"
And why can I not see native Americans in the U.S.A? Don't tell me that the process to remoove them was inspired in the inquisiton, with no bloodshed! And what about the civil war?

Blood is something nobel men shed when they have to.

"I can see it coming."
Me too, and it ain't pretty!

"Euros just can't figure out how mongrels like the USA do it"
The problem is not racial purity.

M. Simon said...

La Raza's time has come and gone.

As to i.e. white liberals and Marxists.

Just like I said. The core of the rot is socialism.

stop fooling us around!
Until the 1960s in America or you were European or you were nothing. It is quiet ethnic to me.
The melting pot was a European meltimg pot.
How can you contest this?


It sure didn't feel that way to me. Of course I grew up in a black neighborhood. We judged people by their character. I had a black guy who was my best friend. He and I used to go out drinking a lot. Illegally of course. There were others who were scum. And we had a name for those. And it didn't begin with "N".

As far as I know none of those black folks were of European origin.

Our family has never been overtly clannish. Other than being intensely proud of being Jewish. It was pretty popular back then in the culture generally. Referred to as MOT. Member of the tribe. But Jews have always been cosmopolitan. One of the chief epithets of our detractors.

We have had too much bigotry directed at us to allow us to hold on to a lot of bigotry ourselves. It just wouldn't seem just.

You know I thought the epithets that LGF used against the commenters here were unjust. I may have to revise my thinking.

I'm against "special privileges" for any minorities, or majorities. However, multiculturalism - is just fine by me and a lot of Americans. American Multiculturalism as opposed to Gramascian Multiculturalism.

I'm Russian, Romanian. My mate is Italian, Finnish. The only cultural traditions we really adhere to are pizza and spaghetti. And garlic. Lots of garlic. Plus we all know a little Hebrew.

America. I love it. The melting pot.

American culture will destroy Islam as we know it. Did you know that Israeli porn is very popular among Arabs? So much so that some Israeli porn sites are translating themselves into Arabic to serve those customers. And how is all that getting around? Mobile phones.

The America Civil war was between white men. Some thought slavery was OK. Some didn't. No one could figure out how to keep the Union together 1/2 slave and 1/2 free.

BTW the Indians were destroyed because of their tribal nature. Had they joined in with America earlier they would have suffered less. Read "Bad Eagle" who wrote an opera about the Holocaust for an interesting take on that.

American culture is very supple. It absorbs and integrates other cultures relatively easily. It will absorb Islam. Which is why there is a war on. Islam/sharia can't compete.

M. Simon said...

Europe's problem currently is Gramascian Socialism.

Socialism is at the Center of the rot and has been since at least 1917.

Islam and immigration is a symptom, not the cause of the disease.

Queen said...

m. simon: You might want to hang out at a few ethnocentric websites frequented by our fellow Americans of non-European ancestry, such as Model Minority, Sepia Mutiny, Hispanic Business Forum, and others. You might be suprised to learn what they think of your "melting pot" ideas, and also, what they think of us "European-Americans." They quite like the "everybody gets to be racist except white folks" paradigm, because they benefit handsomely from it. Maybe you shouldn't judge others here without walking a few miles in their mocassins.

Queen said...

At any rate, I can't see why the Europeans would want to copy our ridiculous, race-based society with all of its double-standards, quotas, hypocrisies, speech codes, code words, "diversity training" brainwashing, "whiteness studies" hate studies, and the like. Easier for them to just stay what they are, and have been for thousands of years: Homogenous.

M. Simon said...

Queen,

I have no doubt that what you say exists and it has always existed. I was fortunate to live in MLKs "I have a dream" America growing up.

All the things you decry what a friend of mine called "Angry Studies" are part and parcel in total Gramasciam Marxism/Socialism. The idea was to destroy social cohesion so that Marxists could rule.

It is apparent that even if you are not a Marxist that they have won you over. It follows the Stalinist line of dividing the country along ethnic lines to make rule easier.

Fortunately some of us are not so easily fooled.

As I keep saying - the core of the problem is socialism and it is the socialists who are pushing this crap.

Here is a place to start Gramscian Marxism.

You are following the Marxist script. You are a dupe.

You really need to educate yourself. The Church was a unifying force because it was based on the brotherhood of all men in Christ. The first object of the Gramscians was the destruction of the Church. Not that hey cared about religion much one way or the other. It was the brotherhood of man that was the critical element. To destroy that they went after the particulars of the Church. Their real aim was the brotherhood of man. Divide and conquer.

I will not be divided. I refuse to join in.

I wish to celebrate American Multiculturalism in which all men are brothers and destroy Gramscian Multiculturalism where all men are enemies.

I refuse to be divided. I refuse to be conquered.

Laine said...

I do not share M. Simon's optimism that the United States is assimilating the present day ethnic groups as it has others in the past.

There are crucial differences. Previous groups wanted to become American, so they were receptive and secondly public education at that time taught civics in a way that encouraged pride in America and its accomplishments.

The main problems with continuing the successful paradigm of the past are:
1) public education is in a leftist socialist hammerlock at every level from kindergarten through university with the gramscian agenda expressed in all curricula. The United States itself, capitalism, free speech, critical thought, Christianity and morality are denigrated while all other cultures (from patently less successful countries) are elevated to unjustified superior status.

2)there has never been such a massive influx of illegal immigrants before. There has never been such a disproportion in immigrants both legal and illegal coming from a single culture and country - Mexico. Entire swathes of the southern United States are hispanic ghettos because they have the unprecedented numbers to do so.

3) there has never been a group of immigrants to the United States before like Muslims who are so intransigent about embracing American ways. They are also choosing to remain apart and are demanding even their own laws (sharia) in those areas they dominate. M. Simon thinks American pornography etc. will carry the day (first time porn has been designated a defensive weapon).

Is he not aware that when polls are taken of Muslims around the world, the second and third generations are much more radical than their parents and grandparents who first immigrated? They are the Internet generation and many have been radicalized via the Internet as well as the Saudi-exported imams in their mosques. Even in the United States, a Pew poll showed that 25% of young Muslims in their twenties thought suicide bombing was justified and these are only the ones who admitted it in a public poll!

There are noticeably far more hijabs and full veiling of Muslim women occurring than even five years ago. I'll bet M. Simon cannot give a single example of a Muslim woman who went in the reverse direction. The few who have done so have come to our attention because they were slain by their own male family members (with the complicity of the females) in honor killings now documented in Europe, Great Britain and Canada.

Is M. Simon not aware, that many of the Muslim suicide bombers including the leaders of the 9/!! attack, have had extensive contact including much or all of their education in the West? Atta and friends visited a strip club a day or so before sacrificing themselves for the glory of Allah so porn on earth was not a sufficient enticement to deflect them from their deadly purpose. Perhaps M. Simon is also not aware that Edward Said, whom many "credit" with inspiring the Muslim brotherhood and Muslim hatred toward the West spent years in the United States and groomed his hatred there, corroded by envy that such a decadent society should dominate the world while countries with his ideology/religion that sees itself as chosen to rule the world were impotent backwaters.

For all these reasons and more, it is dangerous to rely on past history and expecting the same result when so many crucial parameters are different.

I agree with Queen that since racism is universal, it is ridiculous that whites without a racist bone in their body who have never committed a racist act are nevertheless expected to and often feel diffuse guilt. American Native and African tribes killed and enslaved each other long before Europeans ever set foot on their continents. In the case of Africa, tribes with different racial backgrounds are still slaughtering each other as in the Hutu bloodbath of Tutsis in Rwanda. India has had a caste system based on skin color and other immutable characteristics for centuries, Chinese refer to whites among themselves as "dogfaces". Why is everyone so holier-than-thou and why do whites alone admit and try to atone for their (past) racism?

M. Simon said...

Laine,

So your answer to the Gramscians is to join them.

Swell. Just swell.

Flush morality. Flush courage.

Sauve qui peut.

No wonder Charles at LGF was disturbed. GoV is just another Gramscian site with a Right wing veneer and a left wing morality.

National Socialism redux.

Dymphna said...

Well, M.Simon, I guess we just couldn't fool someone as discerning as you are, could we?

Our true selves were bound to be revealed by some intellectual genius one of these days.

Ah, well...the party was fun while it lasted.

Personally, though, I love my inlaid pecan Right wing veneer with the varnished whorls on the side. Can't hardly tell I ain't solid all the way thru.

But Leftist morality?? Hey, hey --whatever you're smoking, I want some.

Homophobic Horse said...

M. Simon - You are a physicalist i.e. racist. How American (a rhetorical point)

Try here: IQ and the Wealth of Nations

Hong Kong (a real melting pot..) comes first with 107. America comes 28th. One could attribute its dynamism and success to its tradition of individual freedom. But Mongrel-ness? As the Americans say: Gimme a break.

Laine said...

So far, M. Simon has offered only his personal opinion that Muslims and Mexicans will be assimilated just as past immigrant groups have been.

I offered evidence that casts doubt on what so far appears to be only wishful thinking.

Instead of countering with evidence showing that these groups are assimilating well I would love to find out this is so!), he makes a bizarre accusation that seems to spring more from his unique personal interpretation of gramscian and multiculturalism than anything I've actually written.

This kind of "I don't have to back up my opinion with evidence and I totally ignore your evidence but if you don't agree with me you're evil" approach is unworthy of this site, at least as much as I've seen of it so far.

M. Simon said...

I get it. The only way to defeat the Gramscian policy of getting people to divide up into enclaves is to divide up into enclaves but make sure you are the strongest.

Lucky you guys are so much smarter than I am. I would have never thought of that.

Afonso Henriques said...

"La Raza's time has come and gone.
As to i.e. white liberals and Marxists."
Simon, do you live in this planet?
Are you insinuating that white liberals and marxists do not exist anymore, or is my English all that bad?

"It sure didn't feel that way to me."
So, Martin Luther King, for exemple, was a lunatic? Why was he so publicised as someone who stood right? Was he a crazy man?
Come on! I think the U.S.A. is a bit bigger than just your personal experiences and wishfull thinking.

"Our family has never been overtly clannish. Other than being intensely proud of being Jewish."
How can a Jew be proud and not clannish? A jew! Not clannish? Come on!

"You know I thought the epithets that LGF used against the commenters here were unjust. I may have to revise my thinking."
You are free to do so.
I just tought people were mature enough to not blame a group of independent person because of the actions of one person.
If you have something against me or what I say, you don't need to mention "other" commenters here on Gates of Vienna.

"multiculturalism - is just fine by me and a lot of Americans"
And why do you and a lot of Americans want to export Multiculturalism to Europe?

"American culture will destroy Islam as we know it"
How? Will Obama nuke Mekha?
I hope that individual not to win the elections, it would be a scarry world...
Nobody can destroy Islam.
Why do you think you are all that powerfull? Why do you need to destroy an inteire Civilisation?
Islam can be defeated in determined places, it can not be destroyed. Unless you kill all muslims, which I think is wrong.

"Israeli porn is very popular among Arabs? So much so that some Israeli porn sites are translating themselves into Arabic to serve those customers."
Is this some kind of Jewish pride?
What has that to do with... I don't know, something?

"Some thought slavery was OK. Some didn't."
I would never imagine that a Jew would be so romantic. Even more romantic that some medieval European princess. So, the civil war was all about slavery? The Northerners were fighting against the evil Southerners who wanted to enslave all Africa?
Are you going to say that the Northerners were too kind hearted for letting those evil beings, the Southerners, live?

"BTW the Indians were destroyed because of their tribal nature. Had they joined in with America earlier they would have suffered less."
Why the hell should they join the ones who ere raping their Nations in order to built America? You are starting to creeping me out!

Afonso Henriques said...

"At any rate, I can't see why the Europeans would want to copy our ridiculous, race-based society with all of its double-standards, quotas, hypocrisies, speech codes, code words, "diversity training" brainwashing, "whiteness studies" hate studies, and the like. Easier for them to just stay what they are, and have been for thousands of years: Homogenous."

You're my queen now.

Queen said...

M. Simon -- riddle me this -- why are Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse considered to be heroes for fighting General Custer for their own lands, but native Europeans who fight to preserve their own lands are "racist"? Was Sitting Bull a "racist"? This is one of his most famous speeches:

"Is it wrong for me to love my own? Is it wicked for me because my skin is red? Because I am Sioux? Because I was born where my father lived? Because I would die for my people and my country? God made me an Indian."

Why is it wrong for native Europeans to say the same thing? Because their skin is white? Because they need to be "punished" for the sins of their ancestors? Because "everybody gets to be racist except white folks?"

That's a Gramscian argument right there.

Col. B. Bunny said...

Queen, lain, lugundum, Homophobic Horse (-demagogy point) -- all excellent.

Zenster said...

Laine: For all these reasons and more, it is dangerous to rely on past history and expecting the same result when so many crucial parameters are different.

This is the bottom line. Past precedents DO NOT apply to the current situation. America is not being flooded with immigrants so much as colonists who have no intention of assimilating and view our fertile soil as somewhere—not to put down roots but—to breed up their own vision of a Global Caliphate or Nation of Aztlan.

In an age of WMDs, the Internet and global air travel, assimilation's once irresistible bulwark no longer protects America anywhere close to how well it did in the past. Time scales required to do our nation great harm have shrunken by orders of magnitude. Far too many arrivals envy our wealth and only wish to do a "smash & grab" instead of cooperating towards mutual success. This is the "looting mentality" that is endemic to Mexico and Islam. Both have been steeped in centuries of institutionalized theft without the least shred of industrialization or actual productivity.

What other explanation is there for next-door Mexico still being in a near-colonial state while America lands astronauts on the moon? How else to account for the entire MME (Muslim Middle East) having a combined industrial output (not including oil) of $5 billion, a number that Finland's Nokia matches handily?

Remind me once again exactly how America stands to benefit from importing hordes of participants from these failed cultures. To date, they have brought with them much of their same mentality of failure, thuggish conduct and disrespect for the democratic principles that America relies upon to function. They have even begun to infect our politicians and business owners with similarly short-sighted notions. The recent immigrant bill ripped the mask from all further delusions about America's political leadership.

Like Europe, America needs to restrict immigration, especially from Muslim majority countries and—in our particular case—Mexico until assimilation has progressed to a much greater degree. What's more, recent arrivals who indulge in crime, terrorism or asserting shari'a law needs to be deported faster than the devil can get his shoes on.