Friday, January 26, 2007

What if the Brits Packed Heat?

Kim du Toit highlights this Breitbart article about gun crime in Britain:

Labour has been accused of losing control of gun crime as new figures show a sharp rise in armed robberies.

Guns were used in 4,120 robberies last year — a 10% jump — including a 9% rise to 1,439 in the number of street robberies where guns were used.

There was also a rapid and unexplained increase in the number of times householders were confronted in their own homes by armed criminals.

He then has some choice commentary on the topic.

Unexplained? I’ll explain it: criminal are using guns to rob people in their homes because they know that the law-abiding are not going to be armed.

I bet the writer of this article even has a university degree.

If the socialists in the Labour Party wanted to stop violent crime from increasing — and [gasp!] perhaps even start a downward trend — they’d repeal the stupid laws which at once deny Brits the right to own handguns and also deny them the right to defend themselves against deadly force.

Criminals would start to think twice about their career options if there was a good chance that their little exercise in property redistribution would likely be met by the likes of Mr. Free Market wielding his beloved Browning High Power. (More frightening would be the prospect of Mrs. Free Market wielding a gun — even I’m frightened by the thought, and I’m not even a burglar.)
- - - - - - - - - -
But I digress.

Well, we all know that the socialists in the Labor Party are going to do nothing of the kind, because (duh) they’re socialists, and their dogma forbids them even to contemplate the thought of a free and armed citizenry instead of a docile and dependent society.

Of course, this would be an opportunity for the not-so-Conservative Party to take the initiative, and promise to do The Right Thing if they were to be elected back into power.

Sadly, of course, the Stupid Party (Brit version) will do no such thing, because they’re intent on positioning themselves as Labour Lite.

It’s a pity there’s no Second Amendment in that unwritten hodgepodge known as the “British Constitution”.


Anonymous said...

Unexplained? I’ll explain it: criminal are using guns to rob people in their homes because they know that the law-abiding are not going to be armed.

It’s a pity there’s no Second Amendment in that unwritten hodgepodge known as the “British Constitution”.

Enough said.

Old Peculier said...

No thanks. We don't want a gun culture like you have over there. You can keep it.

Clovis Sangrail said...

I believe a significant proportion of these crimes are actually motivated by car theft. With modern security systems a car really won't go without the key. So...break into the owner's house and threaten them with a gun until they give you the key.
No one's going to do you any harm because you've got a gun and they haven't (only criminals have handguns, right?).

Mikael said...

There is a lot of attention at the moment in Denmark, after a watchmaker finally had it when he was robbed for the umpteenth time and pulled out a gun and shot two of the three robbers. Jyllands-Posten (link in English).

(The article mentions that robbers in 2004 threatened the shopkeepers niece, but fails to mention that the robbers held a gun to her head at a time when she was visibly pregnant.)

The shopkeeper is now in custody awaiting trial, while the two wounded Serbian robbers is getting excellent treatment at the hospital, on the tax-payers dime.

Polls show that most Danes support the watchmaker, though high ranking police officers say, that the man's in jail because (quote): "We don't want an Americanization in Denmark".

OK fine, where do one apply for a Green Card?

Yorkshireminer said...

The simple thing is that we didn't need guns 40 years ago, I was never interested in guns. I knew that there was plenty in the village our next door neighbor had a single barrel shot gun with a greased cork in the barrel always propped up in the corner of his front room. and the local pub put up hooks on the old beams for one or two who had been out shooting before they came in for there Sunday lunch drink to hang there weapons on, it was inconceivable that they would be used for a robbery. I think that now, if I was living in England, I would be seriously thinking about arming myself, legally or illegally. We are in the early stages of a civil war and it would be remiss of me not to look to the safety of my family with the purblind Government we have got at the moment.

X said...

A repeal of the various laws preventing the ownership of guns would be impossible at the moment, largely because of the gradual way in which they were brought about. Until the 50s it was legal to own a gun, and using it in defence of your property was, if not celebrated, then at least seen as the least nasty way of dealing with things. Of course, back then an englishman's home was literally his castle; property rights were much stronger then than they are now.

Then Labor got elected. They implemented a dangerous weapons act, which included a voluntary register of certain types of guns, ostensibly so that the police would know where to go in order to borrow them (which often happened in those days). This act had a provision within it that allowed the home office to subsequently redefine what was classed as a dangerous weapon, and subsewuent acts made registration compulsory. It has now reached a point where, if you cross a moor at night and decided to take a knitting needle with you, "just in case", you are breaking the law and can be sent to prison for a very long time. Even waving a piece of wood at someone in a way that is xdeemed to be threatening can land you time in jail, or at the very least a large fine.

Dismissive talk of a "gun culture" is, IMO, rather ignorant of the facts. Please forgive the use of that word. I'm tired and unable to think of a less offensive synonym... but the general thought stands. The USA doesn't have a "gun culture" but a culture of the right to self defence, which we don't have at all in this country.

Yorkshireminer said...

Dear Micheal,
yes I know where the shop is, as far as I am concerned he did right, and I am certain most of the decent Danes think the same. I don't know what sort of weapon he used but one of the robbers was wounded in four places and other received a wound in the arm. They escaped but had to call the police later because they couldn't stop the bleeding. I wish he had aimed lower and hit some of their more vital organs. He most likely gave them a blast with a shot gun out on the street when they were running away. I think that the robbers came from Serbia, but since the end of that war in the Balkans we have had plenty of robberies with guns here in Holland and Belgium and there have been quiet a few armed gang fights in Amsterdam. They have been selling guns for dope so there seems a lot of artillery in the hands of the Dutch and Belgium gangs. A Belgium Jeweler had to go through the same process a couple of years ago when he shot a robber down in his shop. The affair almost broke him physically and mentally. I prefer the Texan way of doing things.

Gordon Pasha said...

Old Peculier, You already have a gun culture, but only the criminals are participating.

Panday said...

Old Peculiar,

Apparently, you're already getting a gun culture over there. Except those that have them are free to prey on those who do not. Your police do nothing about it, either.

Have fun with your victimhood culture while rationalizing that it's really "being civilized".

kepiblanc said...

Yorkshireminer, the watchmaker used a handgun, judging from the photos a 9 mmm Makarov. And he had a double-barrel shotgun in the office as well. According to various polls an overwhelming majority of Danes support him and a MP has started a collection of money for him. The real disgusting thing is that the judge took him in custody which is really undermining the respect for the courts. Of course he'll be charged with attempted manslaughter, but the overall opinion here is that he'll get a suspended sentence. We'll see...

Now about gun control : it's illegal here to own a firearm without a permit. And permits aren't hard to get, just sign up for a shooting-club membership and do some practice. Or enlist with the National Guard (Territorial Army) and you'll get a weapon, most likely an automatic rifle. If you don't go legal, then obtaining a firearm is piece of cake, they're all over the place - many of them left-overs from the war, hidden away in attics, basements, drawers etc.. etc...

As the saying goes : "If guns are outlawed only outlaws have guns".

johnCV said...

Old Peculier said...
No thanks. We don't want a gun culture like you have over there. You can keep it.

That's a shame because you have just relegated yourself to, at best, a non-factor and at worst a hapless victim dependant on the mercy or protection of others.

Some say that the world has changed, but really it is the same dangerous place that it has always been. The only difference is that many the threats can come at us from greater distances. The true threats we face as a free people is the insidious erosion of our God given freedoms as delineated in the Declaration of Independance and US Constitution (much of which is based on English law and ideals).
The only way we as Amercicans were able to establish those rights was by armed insurrection by a citizen militia. Those citizens were all skilled Riflemen. That term has a long and proud connotaion in our society that spans the breadth our of (rather short) history. But alos note that we are the longest consistent democray on the planet with the oldest single constitution. Is that a coincidence? No.

Our law states:
Title 10, Section 311 of the United States Code states that:

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

So, according to current Federal law, every able-bodied man between the ages of 17 and 45 not on active duty, reserve, or National Guard service is already a member of the “unorganized militia”.


We (some still do anyway) view it as our duty as a citizen to maintain certain skills that, should we be called upon, rally to our country.
Unlike many older countries, we do not have that sense of being rooted to a plot of land for 5000 years. Most came here is recent generations from elsewhere. As an American, our allegiance to is a set of ideals, laws and freedoms that bind us to all other Americans, not to a specific bit of soil. It's at the core of who we are (this is the true danger of multi-culturalism which is poisonous to America - without a common set of values, we have nothing to unify us).
Guns are an outward manifiesation of that. Ask most traditional Americans about taking away the guns and even non-gun pwners would be strongly against it. Only the elitist euro-centric types want gun control (read liberal-academic-media types). These people either never knew or have forgotten what societal infrastucture supports thier elitist existences. Gramsci would be proud.
Visualize cutting off a limb while sitting on it.
Sorry to be so verbose, but you clearly don't grasp the importance of owning a firearm and having the freedom to use it in your own best interest (in a proper way). Hope this helps a bit.

There are two sides to every gun - which side would you rather be on?

Yorkshireminer said...

Dear Kepiblanc
thank you for the information I am certain you know all about weapons in your line of business, yes it is disgusting remanded in custody until the 30 of January, so he has time to repent his sins. What is more disgusting is the fact that there was a vicious attack on a school kid in England, a 15 year old boy was held down in a playground by several of the followers of the religion of peace and beaten over the head with a hammer, he has most likely got permanent brain damage. In my book that is attempted murder, of the three suspects arrested by the polite British Police two are out on bail. They have been electronically tagged and have had to hand in there passports. On with the veil and out of the country with there sisters passport. What is even more disgusting is that it has not been mentioned in the MSM and the local paper which did report it removed all of their comments when they were heading for the 200 mark. We all know what the mantra is thou shall not offend peace loving muslims

Voltaire said...

JohnCV, great post.

Old Peculier, what exactly do you define as a "gun culture"? Please explain, and let us know, factually, not emotionally, how it is detrimental to a nation.

Also, please explain in detail what you consider to be the virtuous counterpart of the "gun culture" you so dislike, and let us know how it is beneficial to a nation--again, factually, not emotionally.

This may help make your post clearer. As it is now, it merely reads like a vapid slogan.

Mr. Spog said...

Jumping on the bash-Old-Peculier bandwagon ... Perhaps if the idea of American culture is too disgusting, you might think about adopting a Swiss gun culture.

Fellow Peacekeeper said...

Yorkshireminer, the watchmaker used a handgun, judging from the photos a 9 mmm Makarov.

Which explains the perps unfortunate survival. Unreliable, terribly inaccurate, low power (its the puny soviet 9x18, not even 9x19 parabellum).

Danmark, for all its other strengths, is very weak on weapons. They even have ridiculous rules on the permissible length of knife blades.

Vol-in-Law said...

"It’s a pity there’s no Second Amendment in that unwritten hodgepodge known as the “British Constitution”."

The right of "free born Protestants" to keep & bear arms is guaranteed by the 1689 Bill of Rights, which has not been repealed. It was simply ignored by successive governments in the 20th century (mostly Labour), who restricted & removed this right not by legislation passed through Parliament, but through undebated administrative orders.

Little Black Sambo said...

Archonix said that in England, "Even waving a piece of wood at someone in a way that is xdeemed to be threatening can land you time in jail, or at the very least a large fine."

It can also get you shot dead by the police. Remember that case of the man carrying a table-leg? - and he wasn't even waving it.

X said...

I remember that. There's doubt he was even facing them when they shot him since the autopsy seems to indicate he was shot in the back of the head.

Mikael said...

Fellow Peacekeeper:

Danmark, for all its other strengths, is very weak on weapons. They even have ridiculous rules on the permissible length of knife blades.

True. The going max is 7 centimeters (2.8 inches) If your Swiss army knife has a blade any longer than that, you've had it if you carry it in your pocket.

If you still have the saber you great-great-etc-grandfather hshad when he fought the British in 1807 hanging on your living-room wall, you better hope hope the police doesn't knock on your door on some unrelated occasion, or that family heirloom will get you in a world of shite.

The laws against weapons have been continually tightened after a series of stabbings on Saturday nights (many but to be fair not all committed by Muslims) in the last few decades.

Not that these laws have brought the crime-rate down, but the politicians can at least say: "We have done something! Now please re-elect us.)

kepiblanc said...

Mikael & Fellow Peacekeeper -

A national trait of our character is disobeying ridiculous laws such as this one. Maybe some Moonbats in Hellerup and Søllerød leave their Swiss Army knives at home, but I'll bet most don't. But very few Danes carry dangerous knives because it's 1) a Muslim habit and 2) considered unmanly.

Now, about firearms : maybe there's a shortage in big cities, but out here where I live you'll have to search quite a lot of homes until you find one without at least a hunting rifle or a shotgun. And I don't think there's a general shortage in this country what with Army depots all over, protected only with a simple lock. Anybody with a plier can walk right in and pick anything, be it handguns, automatic rifles, RPG's, machine guns, hand grenades, Carl Gustav's (the bikers prefer them) - you name it. Add to that a regular military with 120,000 men, a Territorial Army with some 70,000 men, countless shooting societies, hunting clubs and 'forgotten' firearms in drawers - and you'll end up with literally millions of firearms.

Anonymous said...

Gordon Pasha said...
"Old Peculier, You already have a gun culture, but only the criminals are participating."

That sums it up.

JohnCV: Well explained! Thanks!

Firehand said...

Fellow, the problem was most likely that he was firing ball ammo: no expansion after impact. The Makarov- in good condition- is a quite accurate firearm, at least the ones I've fired. But the ammo, as you say, requires a good hollowpoint bullet to be an effective defense cartridge.