Testimony by Wafa Sultan at the Trial of Geert Wilders

Below are statements of Wafa Sultan which were presented as testimony in Geert Wilders’ trial. They were read out by the judge in the Amsterdam court last week.

From my point of view (and I admit to prejudice), Ms. Sultan’s lucid and matter-of-fact words make up a devastating indictment of Islam. The fact that they have been read into the trial record in Amsterdam will have a significance that resonates far beyond the Geert Wilders case.

Many thanks to our Flemish correspondent VH for the translation and to Vlad Tepes for the subtitling.

Testimony of Wafa Sultan, expert witness for the defense, read out in the Amsterdam court (Part 1):


Testimony of Wafa Sultan, expert witness for the defense, read out in the Amsterdam court (Part 2):



A full transcript of each part is below the jump.

Part 1:

00:01		I was born and raised as a Muslim. I have practiced Islam for 30 years. I was born in Syria,
00:08		and from my first school class until my graduation I took Qur’an lessons, two hours daily.
00:13		I studied medicine at the University of Aleppo in Syria, and graduated in 1981
00:20		as a medical doctor, and for four years specialized as a psychiatrist in a hospital.
00:25		I worked as a psychiatrist in Syria until 1989, the year of my emigration to the U.S.
00:33		Since my coming to the U.S. I have been involved at a scientific level with Islam.
00:38		For in the U.S. I can do that free and independently.
00:42		When I was working in Syria, even as a medical doctor, I was so indoctrinated,
00:46		that I was unable to think myself what was wrong with our religion.
00:50		I had many questions but was afraid to ask them. To research them.
00:54		In the U.S. I do can do that. My scientific work consists of
00:58		making comparisons between medicinal science, psychiatry, and Islam.
01:03		I seek an explanation for the backwardness of the Islamic world.
01:07		Belief leads to certain behaviors. All actions are the product of what we learn.
01:12		Which is generally the case, but also specifically for Islam.
01:17		If you ask me whether in the so-called nature / nurture debate I’d be more on the nurture side,
01:24		I say, my starting point is 50% nature and 50% nurture.
01:28		But over time, nurture is also becomes encoded in DNA,
01:33		and Islam has already existed for over 1400 years. You ask me for my publications:
01:38		I am a well-known writer in the Arab world. I published three books, and for an overview I refer to my website.
01:46		You ask me if I know Geert Wilders. I know him and I have met him twice
01:52		at an event in the U.S. where he gave speeches. One event was organized by
01:57		an organization I think is called “Stand with us’, the other was in Los Angeles.
02:02		Both events were in 2009, about one year ago. Longer ago I had seen the film Fitna:
02:09		I thus was familiar with Wilders’ message. At those events, I greeted Wilders
02:13		and shook his hand. I told him I am proud of him.
02:17		Why? Because he is brave enough to tell the truth.
02:22		You ask me what that ‘truth’ contains. That the problem the whole world is facing
02:26		is deeply rooted in Islamic teachings, the Qur’an and the biography of Muhammad.
02:32		You ask me what the problem is. [answer] That Muslims are aroused to kill non-Muslims.
02:38		The Qur’an says that Muhammad must be the role-model for every Muslim-man.
02:42		You ask me about the International Free Press Society in Denmark.
02:47		Yes, I just forgot [to mention] that, I had been invited in Denmark, I think also in 2009.
02:52		I have given a speech there, and so did Wilders. I then also greeted him.
02:57		He departed immediately after his speech, so I then had no extensive conversation with him.
03:02		You tell me you received a letter from the counselors of the complaining party, dated May 27, 2010,
03:08		to which a photograph is attached on which Wilders and I are pictured. That may be right.
03:13		You ask me at which event the photo was taken. It may be that time I gave a speech
03:18		and Wilders had to wait a short while until it was his turn. In any case I have not
03:22		been in a discussion panel with him. I cannot deny that I am one of Wilders’ supporters.
03:28		You tell me that in this letter I am quoted a few times, and ask me to read these quotes
03:34		and tell whether these quotes are correct. All quotes are consistent with much certainty.
03:39		The only thing is that I did not mean to say that the West should drop an atomic bomb
03:46		on the Arab world, quote number 7. But I did say that
03:51		the West must exert a lot of pressure. With that I mean economic and political pressure.
03:56		My entire tribe, my family, is Muslim. I don’t want to ask the West to drop an atomic bomb on my tribe.
04:02		For the rest I stand fully behind the quotes mentioned in this letter.
04:07		I am not familiar with Professor Jansen or Simon Admiraal. I have not been in touch with Wilders
04:11		about the statements to be made by me today. Wilders’ lawyer called me
04:15		asking if I was willing to testify, and I said yes. The prosecutor has never contacted me,
04:21		and no one ever told me what to say. My message is always similar.
04:27		On the summons she says: You ask me whether in general I have come across
04:32		quotes Wilders is alleged to have made that are incorrect. No, there is nothing incorrect
04:38		in the statements that Wilders is alleged have made. Thus said Ms. Sultan.
04:44		Then she is heard about a number of quotes; from here I will
04:48		first introduce the quote, and then the clarification she gives.
04:51		First quote: “ Islam will dominate, submit, and seeks to destroy our Western civilization.”
04:58		Ms. Sultan says this is correct. In the Qur’an it says the Islamic world wants to dominate.
05:03		Muhammad’s laws are proof that the Islam wants to dominate the world.
05:07		When Muhammad died, there was no enemy left. He had slain everyone
05:11		who was against him. That is written in the biography of Muhammad, which was written
05:16		in the first two centuries after his death. He died in 670, or, in any case, in the 7th century.
05:23		Next quote: “Stop Islamization”. Islamic values do not match the Western values.
05:30		Islam attaches no value to human life. Muslims are on earth to kill or be slain
05:36		in the name of Allah, to the benefit of Allah, to spread Islam,
05:40		and then you get a free ticket to heaven, according to Ms. Sultan.
05:44		You ask me how a Muslim in the West wants to make sure that Islam will prevail:
05:49		They ask non-Muslims to convert to Islam, initially in a peaceful way, but if they refuse, they will kill them.
05:57		Next quote. “A moderate Islam does not exist”. Ms. Sultan: Indeed, in Syria I never heard
06:05		of a moderate Islam or a strict Islam. There is only one Islam and that is the Islam I’m talking about.
06:11		Recently, the Prime Minister of Turkey also said that. He said the “moderate Islam” is an ugly phrase.
06:19		Next quote: “And Islam is the Qur’an and nothing but the Qur’an.”
06:23		Ms. Sultan: That’s right, those are the words of Allah.
06:27		Next quote: “And the Qur’an is the Mein Kampf of a religion that seeks to eliminate others”.
06:33		Ms. Sultan: To this I agree to some extent. The Qur’an is worse than Mein Kampf,
06:38		because Mein Kampf is a political book, the Qur’an is a mix of politics and religion.
06:42		In my opinion, it is easier to overcome a political ideology
06:47		than a political ideology that is packaged as a religious ideology.
06:53		Next quote: “The fascist Islam and that fascist book”.
06:57		Ms. Sultan says: That is correct. I’ll give an example of a Qur’anic verse:
07:02		‘I will strike terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. I’ will chop off their heads and fingertips’.
07:08		Is not that fascism? as Ms. Sultan said, I don’t know the location of this Qur’anic verse out of memory.
07:16		You tell me that there is a stream in the Netherlands that explains this verse in such a way
07:20		that it would only be valid in times of war. No, to Muslims the Qur’an is for every age and every place.
07:28		According to the Muslims it is the absolute word of Allah and every Muslim should behave in accordance with it. As Ms. Sultan said.
07:34		The prosecutor tells me that not all Muslims behave according to this, and asks me why that so.
07:40		This is because they don’t know the Qur’an well enough. The Qur’an is written in Arabic,
07:45		and 80% of the Muslims are not Arab. The Qur’an has never been translated in a good and fair manner.
07:52		That is because in the Islam it is forbidden to translate the Qur’an.
07:56		The translations are often somewhat softer — this she calls “sugar coated” —
08:00		than the Arabic original. Terrorism is more related to Arab muslims
08:05		than other Muslims, because the Arab Muslims are well aware of what is written in the Qur’an.
08:13		If they apply the core strictly, that can lead to terrorism against the West. Afghanistan was never terroristic,
08:19		until the Arab mujahideen got there; and Indonesia 30 years ago was a different country.
08:25		The Saudis have Arabized Indonesia with their oil money. Now they are more Wahhabi,
08:31		more strict Islamic than the Saudis themselves.
08:36		The following quote, which is a quote from Professor Israëli. I totally agree with it.
08:41		Muhammad says Allah will help you with the multiplying of your people, and being present in larger numbers
08:48		— outnumber — than the non-Muslims. Penetration, propaganda, conversion and demographic changes.
08:56		[sorry, I read this, because it’s part of a quote]: Penetration, propaganda, conversion and demographic changes.
09:03		And then Ms. Sultan says: Of this I have been a witness, both in Syria and in the U.S.
09:08		And since she then mentions her own experiences, the examining magistrate swore her in as witness.
09:15		In 1990 I was new in the U.S. I was offered $ 1500 per month to cover myself and to teach on an Islamic school
09:23		Arab language and Islam studies. I have not done that. Who had asked me? A Lebanese woman
09:30		who also had covered herself. She told me that she recruits Muslim women and that she covered herself once in the U.S.
09:38		You ask me in whose name she requested this of me. I think a Saudi group, but I’m not sure of that.
09:43		Incidentally, after September 11, 2001, this Lebanese woman took off her head covering again.
09:49		It therefore was not just an offer for a teaching job. In my Muslim environment in the U.S.,
09:55		Muslim women were sent out to recruit. I heard that from Muslims who had been longer in the U.S. than I.
10:01		The next step would be to convert non-Muslims.
10:05		I’ve also heard that any man who added the name Muhammad to his own name received $1000.
10:11		You ask me from whom. From Saudi people, I suppose. That’s never been exactly said to me.
10:17		I heard this in my Muslim community. One such example is the ‘Washington sniper’
10:23		who a few years ago shot people. He had an American name and the name Muhammad added.
10:29		I suppose he received that $1000.
10:33		Next quote: “The Netherlands as Islamic mission country”.
10:37		Every country in the world is regarded by Muslims as an Islamic mission country.
10:42		I mention as an example the U.S. They try to infiltrate American society.
10:47		A history teacher in my neighborhood, for instance, organized a project: anyone who got it done
10:52		during one Ramadan fast day was rewarded 10 extra points. That was in a public school.
10:58		When questioned by the examining magistrate whether this teacher was a Muslim, I say: I do not know.
11:04		Next quote: “Islam is a violent religion.” Ms. Sultan: That’s right. When you read in the Qur’an,
11:11		‘Chop off their heads and finger tips’, you can not speak of a peaceful religion.
11:16		As a child in Syria I was proudly told that Muhammad had slain 800 Jews in one night.
11:22		He spent the night with a Jewess, whose father and brothers were slain by himself.
11:28		If I then, as an 8-year-old girl, was asked ‘what do you prefer, candy or kill a Jew’,
11:34		I would have replied ‘kill a Jew’, Ms. Sultan said.
11:38

Part 2:

00:01		Muhammad started in Mecca, and in 13 years there he converted about 150 people with words.
00:07		Then he went to Medina, where he became violent. In nine years, he killed everyone who was against him.
00:15		In Mecca, the Qur’an still is somewhat peaceful, but in Medina that is no longer so.
00:20		You must be familiar with the term ‘abrogation’. That later violent verses are to be preferred to the earlier ones.
00:26		The later verses replace the previous ones. I will give you an example. Now this is valid:
00:35		‘Fight the unbelievers who do not believe in Allah and his messenger until they pay a certain tax
00:42		or until they are dead’. But before that it was in the sense of
00:46		‘Deal quietly with an unbeliever and leave him alone for a while’.
00:51		Next quote: “The Qur’an, free from all hate verses, would have the size of a Donald Duck”.
00:57		Ms. Sultan said the following about this: With that I agree. I base that on what is written in the Qur’an
01:03		and what I’ve learned about it. Concerning a question from the prosecutor, I have to say
01:08		that I have no expertise on Moroccan youth in the Netherlands.
01:12		She then declares about the film Fitna: I’ve seen the movie many times, but not in preparation for this hearing.
01:20		I’ve seen the movie with English subtitles; I speak Arabic.
01:26		On questions of the lawyer [Moszckowicz], you ask me if the book that is shown at the beginning is the Qur’an.
01:32		Yes, without any doubt. You ask me about the translation of the word ‘Irhab’. Terrorism.
01:40		You tell me that in the film Muslims are shown who express themselves negatively about Jews and gays
01:46		and ask me if this perception is based on the norms of Islam. Yes, it is.
01:51		The behavior in the film is corresponds with the Qur’anic teachings. The images correspond
01:56		with the texts in the Qur’an. There is a Qur’anic verse that says ‘catch the unbeliever, even if he is in a tower’.
02:03		There are Muslims who believe that this shows the attacks of September 11, 2001 are in the Qur’an.
02:10		Violence against women and gays is a common practice in Islam. This follows from the doctrine.
02:15		In the Qur’an for example, is stated ‘beat your wife if she refuses to sleep with you’.
02:20		In the English translation it says here ‘beat her softly’. That is what I mean by a ‘sugar-coated’ translation.
02:28		In the original Arabic version of the Qur’an it does not say that your have to hit her gently.
02:33		About gay men it is said that you should take them up a mountain and throw them off it.
02:39		I think that is the Sharia. In the Sharia it is even said that a woman who is a virgin when she gets the death penalty,
02:44		must first be raped. This according to Ms. Sultan.
02:49		Then to questions from the prosecutor, Ms. Sultan said the following:
02:53		You ask me when I first had my doubts about what Islam was teaching me. I met my husband in 1975.
03:00		He was born in Syria as a Muslim, but has since stepped out of it. After his father died,
03:09		he was raised by a Christian friend of his father. Even at our first meeting he tried to change me,
03:15		but I was as stubborn as a rock. In 1978 I witnessed the murder of my professor by the Muslim Brotherhood.
03:22		They riddled his body with bullets as they shouted ‘Allahu Akhbar, Allahu Akhbar’. Then I started having questions.
03:30		I dared not doubt Islam, but did have questions in the line of ‘what kind of Allah allows this type of crime?’
03:36		Have these people misunderstood Islam, or does the problem lie with Islam itself?
03:42		You tell me that it appears as if there is a contradiction between the Islam that oppresses women
03:36		and myself, who had an education as a psychiatrist. Syria is a relatively secular country.
03:55		As I also describe in my book, I worked in the U.S. in the beginning as cashier at a gas station.
04:00		There, as a female cashier, I was treated better than as a psychiatrist in Syria.
04:06		For example, in Syria, I was harassed by male colleagues. I could not act against this,
04:12		because according to Islamic rules, as a woman you need to come up with four witnesses,
04:16		it says so in the Qur’an. If I could not do so, I would be charged with adultery.
04:22		In the U.S., I was not even harassed, and if that had happened, I could have taken legal action.
04:32		I give you another example. My brother, who is two years my junior, did not even finish high school,
04:38		but in the absence of my husband, I must ask him for his permission
04:43		to go out for a walk. In the U.S. that of course would not be necessary.
04:47		You ask me why these differences are correlated with the Islam, and not for instance
04:51		with geographical cultural differences. The way women are treated is described in the Qur’an.
04:58		If your wife does not follow your instructions: beat her. In the Qur’an is also is mentioned
05:03		that woman are too mentally deficient to take care of themselves.
05:07		You ask me whether I should worry about my safety in connection with the message I convey.
05:11		Certainly. I live in hiding. I was aware of the price I had to pay for propagating my message.
05:17		Still, I am happy with the life I lead.
05:21		I receive death threats on a daily basis. For example emails that say, ‘We know which school
05:26		your children attend.’ Most threats are in Arabic and anonymous.
05:31		One time a group that calls itself ‘The soldiers of Allah’ came up with a list of 30 names,
05:36		including mine and four other people living in the U.S. They had declared a fatwa on these people.
05:45		And also this statement is undersigned by Ms. Sultan.
05:52		I have a quick look at the clock. Then I continue the statement, at least the little part
06:00		we received from Mr. Moszkowicz, which was written by Raphael Israeli, and I wondered a bit,
06:07		I assume your request is to take that part of the file that I should read out.
06:12		[Mr. Moszkowicz] “If you do not mind that.”
06:16		I will read the piece. I am seeing it for the first time, so I hope you’ll forgive me if I do not read it out well right away.
06:21		‘You are pardoned in advance.’
06:25		‘In my opinion it is correct to say that Islam seeks to master and subdue other civilizations.
06:31		This on the basis of the doctrine of the jihad, which states that the Islam is superior,
06:37		that it is necessary to subdue other religions believed by these civilizations.
06:42		See for reference the most recent book of Mark Durie. [The Third Choice: Islam, Dhimmitude and Freedom — translator]
06:48