Monday, June 23, 2008

Rape in the Gare du Midi

There’s been a lot of talk here recently about the increased incidence of rapes, many of them committed by Muslim immigrants, in both Europe and Australia. We’ve highlighted the situation in Sweden, Norway, and Britain. Now it’s time to look at Belgium as well.

A reader drew my attention to this news article from the Belgian site La Dernière Heure, which I have translated from the French:

Raped in the middle of the station

21-year-old Lola was attacked by two men. Some commuters witnessed it but did not react


Saint-Gilles It is an indignant father, disgusted and outraged, who speaks to us. “My daughter was raped in the Gare du Midi. In Brussels. Capital of Europe. With total impunity.”

It was June 12. “My daughter was returning from Waterloo. It was 9:00 pm. On exiting the train, she headed for the Bancontact.” A public passage. Yet this is where the tragedy took place.

“Right in the middle of a station. But how is this possible?” continues the father of Lola, who is 21 years old. “Two men accused her of not wearing the veil. My daughter is pretty. She is blonde with blue eyes.”

Everything happened very quickly after that. “One of the assailants took out a knife. My daughter was pushed up against the wall of Bancontact. With a knife at her throat, one of the boys raped her. The other watched.”
- - - - - - - - -
It was 9:00 pm. It was still light, and outside the station was far from empty. “People were passing by. My daughter is confident that she saw at least three people. None of them stopped to help her.”

The rape ended, and the attackers departed calmly. “They were two North Africans. They did not even wear hoods. And don’t tell me that I am a racist because I mention their origin! My daughter was raped because she was not wearing a veil. That’s the truth!”

Lola went to see her girlfriend. “Do I have to tell you what kind of state she was in?” A few minutes later, the young woman was hospitalized.

Obviously, a complaint was filed. “The police were very professional. Her clothes were removed as evidence. DNA was extracted.”

But, alas, the culprits are still at large… “Following the death of Joe Van Holsbeeck, it was proclaimed loud and clear that there would be more security at stations. With my daughter, you have proof that nothing has changed. There are no cameras around the Gare du Midi, which is still one of the most popular stations.”

Marc is bitter. “I’ll have no more of this Belgium where everything is permitted. It leaves lawless areas like that with young people adrift. These rapists wanted only one thing: to abuse my daughter, to possess and denigrate her because she was not like they hear that girls should be… It’s a disgrace.”

Rape by gangs of immigrant is an assertion of dominance, and in that sense it is a political act. It says, “We are in charge here, and we do as we please with non-Muslims. No one may stop us; we operate with impunity.”

If the Belgium government fails to prove such assertions wrong, then immigrant-dominated areas of the country will become de facto Muslim states.

51 comments:

Saharians said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
randian said...

Will become? They aren't already?

Fjordman said...

Saharians is once again demonstrating that he is here deliberately in order to discredit this blog.

Annoymouse said...

I think Europeans realize we are in a state of war. The problem, I think, is their multicultural religion has chosen sides with the enemy.

Shamefull.

Bushwick Bill said...

I'm with Saharians. It's time for Europeans to start fighting back. If your governments can't or won't protect you, then the formation of vigilance committees is imperative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigilance_Committee

shokk said...

When the government cannot keep its commitment to protect the common good, it is up to the citizens to take matters into their own hands. Take back our lands.

Fjordman said...

Yes, we're at war. And our authorities are not only not protecting us, they are siding with the enemy to force us to quietly accept more and more rapes and other kinds of degradation and humiliation. Remember that this is the same city where the Socialist mayor not too long ago banned and attacked a peaceful demonstration against the Islamization of Europe. And the EU, which is Brussels-based, wants us to accept ever-more of these immigrants who are raping our daughters. Never in the history of mankind has an entire continent been systematically stabbed in the back by its own leaders, media and intellectuals the way white indigenous Europeans are right now. We are being raped, murdered and spat upon for no other reason than walking the streets in the countries where our ancestors have lived since time immemorial, and are told that we are evil racist pigs if we even verbally object to this. I wonder what future generations will call this time period. The Age of Insanity? The Age of Humiliation? Or perhaps the Age of Betrayal?

christian soldier said...

Does ANY country in Europe have a Second Ammendment type statute?

I other words: The Right To Bear Arms?!!

Baron Bodissey said...

Saharians,

You were "censured" again for the same reason, for apparent incitement, violating rule #2.

I agree with Fjordman. The onus is now on you to demonstrate that you are not an agent provocateur. If nothing happens to convince me that you are commenting here in good faith, I will delete your comments as soon as I see them, regardless of what they say.

Chalons said...

Marc should be bitter.

“People were passing by. My daughter is confident that she saw at least three people.None of them stopped to help her"

How absolutely pathetic.

...and christian soldier, its not a matter of guns. It's a matter of character and backbone.

Diamed said...

I wonder is she was targeted for her blonde hair and blue eyes, as the sort of 'epitome' of whiteness.

This would show it's a straight racial hate crime and has little to nothing to do with Islam, since all girls, blonde, brunette, etc aren't wearing the veil.

I also find it sad that the father of a raped girl is desperately trying to avoid being called a racist and defending himself, rather than taking for granted his right to be outraged, and taking for granted a supportive community that will find these thugs and string them up.

We're in a situation where a certain group is raping another group as an ethnic power grab and tool of intimidation, described by the UN as a 'war tactic' and thus both an act of war and a war crime.

Instead of declaring war and deporting all muslims, I doubt these rapists will even serve 2 years in prison. It's surreal.

What is "Occupation" said...

If only Europe had kept their Jews safe...

but that would be fantasy and the truth? It's ugly, it's brutal and it's nothing different that in 1801 when the Pasha of Northern Africa said the USA (when it was the colonies of course) You are christian dogs, your women are ours, your wealth is ours and we will kill off your men and enslave you or give us cash

Remember the Besty & Philadelphia 1783 The First Barbary War...

remember malta and why it was set up

remember the gates of vienna

remember.....


or dont at your own peril

What is "Occupation" said...

Oh and last night in Paris? a nice jewish boy (hassidic) was beaten into coma by "unnamed youths"

not the 1st time....

rape, murder, intimidation....

we've seen it all before

Fjordman said...

It is difficult to see exactly where religious warfare ends and racial warfare begins. Muslims rape and abuse non-Muslims of any color, but there is absolutely no doubt that we are sometimes dealing with a form of racial warfare directed specifically against whites.

Remember in Utrecht in Holland when the natives started protesting against immigrant violence and abuse. They were immediately squashed by the authorities. The state is now an enemy in most Western European countries. It's time for people to arm themselves.

We're guinea pigs in an evil social experiment. It's a recycled version of the Communist idea of perpetual peace. Since wars are caused by "differences," the way to permanently end all wars is to permanently end all differences. While the Communists focused on economic differences, the Globalist Multiculturalists focus on cultural, religious and racial differences. Once these have been erased and all people have been merged into one, starting with white majority nations since they are most "different," we will all live in peace. There will be no more national borders or national laws. All laws will be passed by the United Nations, and the world will be as one. We will be one global nation, one nation, under sharia.

So yes, we are being raped and murdered, but it's for a good cause. The sooner we accept our own state-sponsored eradication, the better.

xlbrl said...

Yes, and if it were the daughter or the father who was merely the passers-by, would they have in fact done anything differently? Judging through experience, they too would have turned their heads.
This is not really a story about Muslims. Socialism gradually reduces the quality of the individual. The Muslim sees this artifice correctly as insincerity and cowardice, and attacts it as unnatural. That is what packs of dogs do. The rape was a deliberate assertion of the power of evil over the weakness of cowards.

Afonso Henriques said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Fjordman said...

Afonso: We cannot talk about children that way. I am angry too, but people need to think straight. You will hurt this blog with that kind of talk.

Zenster said...

Rape by gangs of immigrant[s] is an assertion of dominance, and in that sense it is a political act.

In light of how the Koran specifically mentions the use of Infidel women as sexual slaves, it would seem that rape is an integral part of Islamic warfare.

Given that, I am led to anticipate that Muslim acts of rape will begin to be treated as skirmishes in an actual war.

Much as with Islam, I would not be surprised at seeing the West begin to engage in "honor killings". The bad news for Islam is that, here in the West, we honor our women and not some over-inflated and porcelain-fragile sense of familial reputation.

Ergo, allow me to predict that fathers, uncles, brothers and cousins of these European rape victims will probably start hunting down and dispensing their own brand of rough justice to these Islamic rapists. Especially so when the state refuses to mete out any severe punishment for these heinous crimes.

I'm confident that many others here will agree about how Muslim men will be astonished that we Westerners do not kill our sullied women and, instead, seek out the real perpetrators so that they may be held to account.

Just one of many little surprises that Islam has coming its way as it continues pushing Infidels to the wall. The larger scale responses of Western society to Islam's constant predation will make Muslims wish they had never even heard of the Koran.

Baron Bodissey said...

Afonso --

You were right. I can't tolerate certain parts of what you just said in your comment. Your intemperate statements could cause this blog to be shut down.

You'll have to open your own blog to say things like that. Then you can see for yourself whether Google will tolerate that kind of incitement.

George Bruce said...

"....its not a matter of guns. It's a matter of character and backbone."


Character and backbone without a weapon against a gang of "youths" only results in a knife in the intestines. (And in Europe, prosecution of the victim.) Some people, if they are not too degenerate, may develop a character and a backbone with a weapon in their hand.

To put it another way, people who allow themselves to be disarmed demonstrate a lack of character and backbone.

Imagine what would happen if this took place in Texas.

Afonso Henriques said...

Ok I agree about the "kill them" part.

Concerning the children. I may search for a direct quote but the words were pretty much those ones.

Also, I said that if we continue this way... we can get into a future situation in which... acts like those will be common.

That's what civil war is all about. Not sporadical rapes...

Well, I'm not mad, I just think I will look through the window, get some fresh air, look to Lisbon (not the treaty), luckily, some pretty girl will walk down the street, and then I'll comment again.

Sorry for something...

Afonso Henriques said...

Well Baron, now I think I am not violating any rules but I will state almost the same and show my support for the radicals.

When something like this happens, I think one part has a right to do something. I say the following:
Go after them and do whatever you want with them! If they rape our women, you have the moral to rape their soul. Do as you please to the perpetrators! If this continue, we will eventually have to retaliate in the future and that’s how civil wars start…

Unfortunately, no one will listen to me and there will be a time when people are poor and the "ethnics" are way too many (more than 25~33%). Then, Ex-Yugoslavia like situations will happen.

That's why I SUPPORT INCONDITIONALLY THE SERBS!!! And anyone who disagrees here with me should stop being such a hypocrite.

I SUPPORT THE SERBS because they have faced this FOR GENERATIONS and have assisted a new wave of muslim "empowerment".

It will soon come a time when people in the suburbs of Paris will say, as a Serbian official once said, saying that it was somehow legitimate to attack violently children depending on their ethnic background. His excuse for such a horrible act?

“…when they grow up they will legitimately hate us simply for our existence and they will become just like their parents, only even more motivated to act towards our daughters in the future.”

We'll get this far in less than 50 years, I don't think... I know!

Meanwhile, this case is meaningless. She is an average women, his father is a disgusted father.
This means nothing. Many cases will continue all over Europe and they will all be meaningless. And, (I have to mention, of course, I am a racist pig), it is not only the muslims, not at all...

see it, think about it, and please, use your brains

The only difference between muslims and others is that muslims have a great Civilisation and a great History dealing with Europeans and as so, they know how to extract our forces, they know how to act politically. Others do not.
We are at war. But I'm not fighting your war Fjordman. As I see it, it is a war with two sides:
Europe vs the World. We have no friends. Actually, our worst enemies are ourselves.
Europeans - you may take this racially, I do not care. - are being exterminated in Venezuela, Brazil, South Africa, Zimbabwe, and Europe by different methods and in different scales. European Culture, History, Land, Tradition and Genes are under attack with the only purpose of creating a better world by eliminating what is superior, what is best, more beautiful - like Lenin's hordes did to the Romanov and Traditional Russia - so that the world could be improved by limiting Humanity to the least common denominator. Actually, not really, for them, to eliminate the higher traits of Humanity, to profane the divine, to abuse what is not theirs and they envy/desire is enough for them.

Before 1945 Europe(ans) (Civilisation) ruled the whole world.
Today, She (Europe, the Goddess if you will) not even at home is safe, not any more...

Anyway, you can praise multiculturalism as much as you want, but fortunately in Europe, inter-ethnic hate rapes, conducted to oppress both men and women of European descent, to conquer land, happen everyday and despite all, those are quiet rare. In contrast, in America, a woman of European descent (with family, with children, a husband, or simply with a brother and a father) (or even if she’s alone? Who cares?) is raped every fifteen minutes by a member of an ethnic minority. That means that while you sleep 8 hours comfortably at home, thirty two (32) European women were raped by a member of an ethnic minority in your own great and civilised country.

And you know what’s worst? The gross majority of the cases, both in America or in Europe are not reported.

As I’ve told in the other thread. Women are naïve, there are many people (“ethnics” including) out there that will be pleased to get the naivety out of them by force… and without consent, with a big smile in their faces to contrast with the face of absolute horror of the poor women.

Thank you Baron for caring about the raping of Europeans girls by muslims.

Baron Bodissey said...

Afonso --

Thank you for at least attempting to be temperate in your rephrasing.

Afonso Henriques said...

"It is difficult to see exactly where religious warfare ends and racial warfare begins."

Really?

"no doubt that we are sometimes dealing with a form of racial warfare directed specifically against whites."

Sometimes?

I really wonder what the West is for you...
of course, we'll all get drunk in that great wine called "is Israel Western?".
I sincerly, no not care if Israel is Western or not...

But and Latin America?
And that especial case of Mexico? And what does Western really means?

And of course, South Africa! We can never forget to mention that anti-Slavism present in so many people that made Samuel Huntington consider half of Eastern Europe to be not-Western.
Interesting...

Also interesting is that I can't recall a classification of the West that excluded Portugal and Spain though Argentina's and Urugay's status is somehow dubious and both countries are usually considered third world countries even though both are some 90% European.

So, what does West means? What is this West that we all stand for?
And now that you've interiorised that the West is such a vague concept, for what do you stand for?

Free-Speach, Democracy, Free-Market, a equally and diverse society? Was it then that you stand for?
What exactley diferenciate us from the leftists?
Are we all that materialistic?

Of course, we all know that 50 Cent is a highly respectable "Westerner" and that both Mia Couto and Agualusa are deinetly not.

-----------
Nice thought Zenster;
And, Baron, I am the one who has to be gratefull for the existance of this excellent blog.

Baron Bodissey said...

Saharians,

Very well then, remember this:

When you say, "I think a civil war is coming", that is one thing.

When you say, "It's time to start a civil war and kill the Marxist oppressors", that's an entirely different thing.

The first is perfectly acceptable, and is, as you say, what El Inglés has done (and Paul Weston and Fjordman as well).

The second is incitement to insurrection and is grounds for Blogger to close our account.

Kindly phrase your statements carefully. You can say, for example, "It's time to hold our leaders to account." Nothing wrong with that.

You may also say, "It wouldn't surprise me if at some point citizens become fed up, and decide to overthrow the existing leftist power structure." That skirts the edge, but stays on this side of it.

If you can't control the way you say things here, you are putting our blog at risk.

If you feel compelled to say such questionable things, I'm sure there are other sites that will embrace your viewpoint happily. Maybe they don't rely on Blogger, and thus don't have to worry about the consequences. But I do.

Hal K said...

We are at war. But I'm not fighting your war Fjordman. As I see it, it is a war with two sides:
Europe vs the World. We have no friends. Actually, our worst enemies are ourselves.


When someone is mentally ill they tend to act self-destructively. People will tell them repeatedly that they are mentally ill, and that this is causing their problems, and yet they are unable to believe it or understand it. The liberalism that allows the demographic transformation of European countries and countries with currently European-descended populations can be viewed as a mental illness at a group level. The difference is that the non-Europeans are not informing the mentally ill Europeans that they are sick. Instead, through their continuing accusations of racism, etc., they are encouraging the sickness.

Fjordman said...

Saharians: I don't care what your agenda is, I have not seen you make a single sensible comment here. Virtually every single comment you make undermine the credibility of this blog.

What is "Occupation" said...

To fight back against moslem violence in europe one CAN take a different approach...

Start passing out digital camera's, start taking photos of moslem youth that are on the street that appear to be menacing... then start posting the photos on a blog

list the town, street/area and date...

if you want to TAKE back the street, start using the camera to record the bad guys...

they HATE personal attention...

jillosophy said...

I hope I don't say anything that will get me reviled or my posts deleted... but, all I have to say is:

Cut through all the analysis.
We need to treat Islam like the deadly, contageous virus that it is.

We can outlaw it in our countries.
Anyone wants to observe Islam needs to LEAVE. Anyone discovered observing Islam will be deported.
Let them GO BACK TO THEIR COUNTRIES AND GET BUSY WITH THEIR REFORMATION/EVOLUTION. It will only happen sooner if they are forced to live with eachother.

At any rate, those of us here in good ol'civilization will be free to live our lives the way we deserve to: FREE OF ISLAM.

Not a popular notion?
Too bad.
It's the ONLY THING THAT WILL WORK.

Findalis said...

The rape of a non-Muslim woman is not a crime in Islam, therefore it is not a crime in Belgium. Belgium like the rest of Europe is under Shar'ia law and should just shut up and conform.

That's the way it is now. And now Americans should keep their tourist dollars at home and not visit until the law is changed.

Darrin Hodges said...

This is ethnic cleansing, it is war. Rape is a weapon of war used against civilian populations. Young Australian women, as you know, were targeted by Muslim gang rapists because they were White and the attackers made sure their victims knew that.

Our society has become extremely atomised, everyman is now truly an island. What were the thoughts of those passing by? Perhaps they feared being stabbed themselves? I have a family..., perhaps they feared being accused of racism? who knows, but ultimately that girl was raped by Liberalism.

Diamed said...

@jilosophy: Without raising awareness, we won't get the numbers necessary to enact any laws. Any non-legal recourse will be crushed by the army and the police.

I don't see anything we can do but talk, and hope various people see GoV, get interested, and change their views one by one.

I understand how frustrating it is to see the problem, know the solution, but instead watch the entire country crumble apart around you because no one cares. But I don't see anything else we can do. Think of it as a pleasant melancholy, like listening to Wagner's Gottardamarung, or watching a tragic story where you know the hero is going to die from the beginning.

Whiskey said...

I am sorry, I think most people are not seeing the most important thing about this horrific incident:

NO ONE INTERVENED.

Period.

I have seen this pattern time and time again, in Virginia Tech, where only a middle aged professor and elderly Holocaust survivor professor did any action, when the assailant, Cho, was reloading and could have been jumped by young and vigorous men in the room. In many other situations, not just in Belgium, not just in Europe.

I think this lack of reaction comes from many sources: fear of social censure for being "racist" in attacking a non-white attacker, fear of being charged with a crime for intervening (and a racial hate crime as well), lack of social cohesion or in other words extreme individualism and atomization leading to "every one for himself" and finally, lack of celebration of courage of the people who intervene to stop attacks.

When, for example, Actress Teresa Saldana was stabbed by some deranged stalker, in the middle of the street, a passing by Sparkletts delivery man intervened and saved her life (he was also stabbed in the process). While everyone remembers the victim Saldana, who was the subject of several TV movies, not one movie was made about the delivery man. He was not celebrated, people do not know his name, he did not achieve even a modicum of fame by heroic, selfless physical courage.

If we want people to intervene against such attacks, we must have the social conditions to create that intervention.

The men were armed. They had knives. There were several of them. They were non-white, of a politically protected class. They were probably members of a criminal organization.

Women, the elderly, and the physically unfit will have little chance against them. Only strong and determined young men, acting quickly, without thinking and in concert could have stopped that attack. This requires police generally, but the police cannot be everywhere. Only a strong sense of neighborhood, "belonging" AND expectation of rewards, felt rather than reasoned, done instinctively.

Indeed, to create a scenario where the attack was stopped would require a society creating an average of three young men witnessing the attack in progress, instinctively and without thought, moving against the attackers, and engaging in deadly physical combat against the criminals. Expecting they would be rewarded as heroes, regarded as such for risking their lives for another, worthy of protection.

Political correctness, the idea that force can be met with reason and persuasion, and punishment of anything un-PC are of course poison to that course.

I am not surprised by rape epidemics, this is what you get when law and order break down. That it has a political dimension I would not deny. But to me this shouts from the rooftops that police are not and never will be enough to create and keep a civil society, and that something is seriously broken in Western Society. I could well imagine many such incidents in the US even.

Whiskey said...

I'll note in passing that Italians were so fed up with this sort of thing they returned Berlusconi, a man who's political obituary had been written in stone.

Anything is possible.

Perhaps Belgians are not screamingly mad enough.

viske68 said...

Christian Soldier and Whiskey.

No in any european country there's a legislation that prohibits the possession of firearms. And those legislations become more and more though every day.

Yes we have had a good soul who has helped the attacked and the result was that he has been beaten to death on a bus. His murderers who are well known are released "as they were poor victims who were provoked"

Homophobic Horse said...

Read this Times article.

Pakistani paedophile's brainwash girls by telling them their parents only oppose their being abused out of "racism."

Get that? Next time you hear someone tell you "All whites are racist" (including Barack Obama with regards to his typical white grandmother), you tell them that child molesters now brainwash their victims with that.

It's a microcosm of what's being done on a civilisational scale. We are indeed within the midst of an evil "social experiment", much like the Communist Eastern Bloc.

---Some quotes---

Solzhenitsyn: “Violence can only be concealed by a lie, and the lie can only be maintained by violence. Any man who has once proclaimed violence as his method is inevitably forced to take the lie as his principle.”

British philosopher Bertrand Russell once wrote, "Outside human desires there is no moral standard. If I want something to be true it is true." [See Solzhenitsyn quote]

A. J. Ayer believed that moral commands did not result from any objective standard above man. Instead, Ayer stated that moral commands merely express one's subjective feelings. When one says that murder is wrong, one is merely saying that he or she feels that murder is wrong.

Jean-Paul Sartre, a French existentialist, believed that there is no objective meaning to life. Therefore, according to Sartre, man must create his own values.

Koestler’s Darkness at Noon: There was a great scene there where the old Communist who was interrogating the jailed Communist, who is modeled on Bukharin, cheerfully admits that all they were doing was experimenting with human life, killing 30 million people. “Well, what of it?”, Ivanov is his name, “Yeah, that’s what we’re doing. We’re killing 30 million people a year. So what? Cholera killed that many anyway. Why shouldn’t we be entitled to play that role?” And Bukharin, who is called Rubashov in the book, struggles to express his revulsion, and he can’t find the language. He can’t bring himself to say because it’s not right. He doesn’t have the vocabulary. It’s been lost.

An evil "social experiment."

Chalons said...

The psychology in which people go straight to guns as the answer is interesting. It's as if they live in a binary world in which they are either armed or they are helpless - there is no in between.
I find that extremely ignorant.

I'm licensed to carry. It's a good right to have. But the idea that someone would not intervene on behalf of someone much weaker unless they have the trump card of a gun is pathetic. A gun is a weapon. So is a handful of dirt. One must make due with the resources at their disposal.

Learn how to fight without crutches. Spare us the gun bravado. It does no one any good if the option does not exist.

Afonso Henriques said...

Darrin Hodges your comment is incredibly acurate and direct:

"This is ethnic cleansing, it is war. Rape is a weapon of war used against civilian populations. Young (...) women, as you know, were targeted by (...) gang rapists because they were White and the attackers made sure their victims knew that."

First, while its easy to attack muslims, I won't do it. Doing that is to close an eye to all the other "minorities".

But what should we do? I am starting to get tired to talk to the wind... I purpose that from now on, we have to proclaim some actions that should be made, fortunatley, some guy will do it.

"Our society has become extremely atomised, everyman is now truly an island. What were the thoughts of those passing by? Perhaps they feared being stabbed themselves? I have a family..., perhaps they feared being accused of racism? who knows, but ultimately that girl was raped by Liberalism."

Yes, she was ultimateley raped by her left-wing governors and the ones who voted in them, probably, her owner mother and father. That's the problem.

And as Julius Évola said, we are powerless, all we have to due is to Ride the Tiger, to climb to the back of the Tiger of social marxism that is destroying the European Civilisation becoming thus immune to it.
In the back of the tiger, if we maintain our vallues despite what is fashionable or seen as correct by the society, the tiger will not get us, and will not be able to destroy us.

But with all the non sense in all this, the Tiger of leftism who's destroying the European Civilisation and who's so stronger and more powerfull than us will run and run and attack everything that moves untill it becames exhaust and then, when the Tiger can not breed properly due to all the destruction it has so energically caused, we will be able to get out of his back and to strangle him to our own bare hands.

That's what will happen to the European Union. Unless Europeans became a minority in Europe.

Afonso Henriques said...

Whyskey, did you seriously meant what you said:

"Women, the elderly, and the physically unfit will have little chance against them. Only strong and determined young men, acting quickly, without thinking and in concert could have stopped that attack. This requires police generally, but the police cannot be everywhere. Only a strong sense of neighborhood, "belonging" AND expectation of rewards, felt rather than reasoned, done instinctively."

That means, what made the Spartans act together... how's that called?
NATIONALISM!!!

(And in a country like Belgium, that is not only European but divided along the French/Dutch lines...)

Nationalism is exactley what you purpose. You bad and evil racist pig! You fascist bastard who want people to stand for each other instead of "free-speach"; "liberty"; "fraternity"; "free-market"; "the West" and "equality"! You are a Nazi, you, just like uncle Adolf purpose for a people with a common History to act together against outsiders.

What you call "civil society" is in fact Nationalism. Otherwise, it is utopical.

Afonso Henriques said...

Chalons, what are you? A suicide bomber?

"The psychology in which people go straight to guns as the answer is interesting. It's as if they live in a binary world in which they are either armed or they are helpless - there is no in between.
I find that extremely ignorant."

Just replace "someone weaker" with "defensless Palestininians"...

get real, I am really tempted to say a F-word and a U to you, but I won't.

Chalons said...

alfonso,

What kind of bizarre logic brought you to palestinian suicide bombers? That's just too weird.

Go back to the context of this thread and the 'And no one intervened' comments. It does not require a gun to stop an atrocity.

George Bruce said...

Chalons said...

"The psychology in which people go straight to guns as the answer is interesting. It's as if they live in a binary world in which they are either armed or they are helpless - there is no in between.
I find that extremely ignorant.
.....
Learn how to fight without crutches. Spare us the gun bravado....."


What if the person who might intervene is on crutches? Or is 60? Or female? Or is small or ill? There were two assailants. In many cases there are more than two. A few of us may be large, powerful, young men with athletic bodies and marital arts training. Most of us don't fit that description. An unarmed intervener would only increase the number of victims. Some type of weapon gives the intervener some chance of stopping the rape and dealing justice to the criminals. A more powerful weapon increases the chance of success and increases the chances of intervention.

Why do you want the interveners to be unarmed? What do you suggest as an alternative?

Maybe you have watched too many Kung Fu movies.

Chalons said...

Most people come nowhere near reaching their full potential, George. Most don't even try.

If you have a gun, by all means use it. And if you don't? Or you left it at home? Or it misfires? Or if a gun legally constitutes excessive force? Well, I guess you are just in a world of hurt then, aren't you?

Over-reliance on any one thing is less than prudent.

Robohobo said...

"...and christian soldier, its not a matter of guns. It's a matter of character and backbone."

"The psychology in which people go straight to guns as the answer is interesting. It's as if they live in a binary world in which they are either armed or they are helpless - there is no in between.
I find that extremely ignorant.
.....
Learn how to fight without crutches. Spare us the gun bravado....."

Chalons - I am not sure whether you are licensed to carry or not. But you are showing an absolute dearth of knowledge around the escalation of violence issues taught all responders be they police, security or legally armed citizens. The young womans attackers were reported to be armed with a knife. Escalation of violence rules say that you should at least respond with a firearm. Ask your local police department about this. No matter the amount of backbone you have, if the perp has a knife UNLESS you and yours have extreme numbers on your side OR superior force then you are just going to become another victim. MOST but not all people do not have the wherewithal to intervene in those circumstances. The top level of weaponry in EUrope seems to mostly be the knife because you have allowed yourselves to be disarmed - legally.

American supporters of RKBA for ALL free people were treated to scorn and disdain by our 'betters' who seemed to know better. Now you are paying the price. You have allowed yourselves to become disarmed and cannot defend yourselves. Unfortunately there are parts of this country that have fallen for that type of wrong headed thinking. When the bad guys KNOW they have the top weapon, they have little disincentive to NOT act wrongly. BUT, if they may be met with equal deadly force the outcome is not so one sided. The person who could not physically fight now becomes able to sway or dissuade the bad guy and influence the end outcome. At least there is a choice. We have lots and lots of evidence that show this is true in the US.

Chalons, you are the one who has seen too many Jet Li movies. Real life does not work that way.

Why do I carry a gun? Because a cop is too heavy. All those donuts, you know.

Afonso Henriques said...

Chalons,

First of all it is AFonso, not Alfonso. I would apreciate if you could correct that from now on.
And also, a bit more respect for the man who conquer more land to the muslims than any other in the Reconquista, the man who defeated 5 moorish King's army and killed the 5 Kings, with a much smaller army hundreds of Kilometers south of the muslim-christian border of the time would be nice.

Finaly,
imagine they were "brave" enough to stop the rape. The muslims would kill them or atack them badly.
That kind of sacrifice for a person one does only when that person means a lot to us... but you must be very brave...

And you know what? When there is one or two men who can help the victims, the perpetrators usually do not atack, or atack the men first.
So, it's obvious that there was no one we can call a very strong man in the station.

What you purpose, to atack a person, when we will most likely be killedd just to help a stranger is suicide.

I don't know what I would do in such a situations but maybe, and because I'm only 1.8m tall and 65Kg heavy, I wouldn't put myself between two men with knifes who want to rape a white christian girl just to save the life of a stranger.
Screaming "Police!" "There is the police!", or "The police's coming" would be a must do in such a case though, as well as to go outside calling manly man or a skinhead to smach some muslim skulls.

What you purpose is to force a man who can't swim to enter in the sea to save an unkown girl who's drowning.
It's senselss. And it only shows that you have never witnessed a like-this situation, in Europe at least. Or maybe, you are a very brave boy.

It is a matter of backbone, but not of individual city, it is a matter of backbone of the Nation that alouds her girls to be raped by third worlders, like the U.K., for example.

Findalis said...

Afonso, they couldn't call the police and say they are witnessing a rape? Would that be hurting them? Would they have been attacked? It would inconvenienced them. But they are cowards for not doing so.

Afonso Henriques said...

Findalis, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

CarnackiUK said...

The Gare du Midi has a small police station on the premises (possibly equipped with CCTV.) It is also patroled by some very tough-looking heavily-armed paramilitary (SWAT-type) police, sometimes with German Shepherds in tow.
Instantly reacting to the situation like an action hero might be a stretch for many of us, but I would have thought most people could have alerted a cop very quickly. That is unless the cops all sign off on the stroke of 6pm - which is not unimaginable.

Chalons said...

Sorry, Afonso. I've made note of the name spelling.

Robohobo, I'm very much pro-CCW and I can carry in 18 states, but I understand the consequences of pulling the trigger. Doing so will change your life and probably cost you $100,000 in legal fees just for the courts to decide you acted appropriately. There are more than just a couple anti-gun prosecutors out there they would love you hang you out to dry. Pay very close attention to the way the laws are written - the legal system will not honor you for removing the vermin from society. It's really a lose/lose situation. My state currently says you must flee if you can. Injecting yourself into a scenario like the one above with a gun is illegal. You'd make a lefty prosecutor's day with that!

Zero-to-gun is too big a leap. I like the fact that it plants a seed of doubt in assailants mind. It has a pretty good deterrent where CCW is legal, which is a minority of the world.

And I've broken my own rule about talking about self defense on a public forum. Just remember - if you cannot defend yourself, you most certainly can't defend anyone else. Cops always show up after the fact. It's foolish to think they're going to do you any good when you most need them.

TGM said...

Girls in Europe should carry a can of oven cleaner spray. In the US, we have Easy Off Oven Cleaner. It is THE BEST defense against rape. A small can in your coat pocket and one spray in a rapist eyes/face will melt his face off. You can buy similar brands and small cans all over Europe. Just do it for your sisters.

John Billings said...

Oven cleaner! great idea. How about this? We in USA have a canned insecticide called Hot Shot. It shoots a stream of poison 3m or more; in rapists' eyes it would be very effective. Sure you in EU have something similar...I am visiting Belgium soon; do you have any suggestions?