Thursday, December 08, 2011

A Probe From Darkest Norway

Ever since July 23 we have been the recipients of a variety of messages from Norway, running the gamut from very friendly to the nastiest correspondence we have ever received during our seven years as bloggers.

Our experience as bloggers has taught us, especially when we suspect hostile intent, to fisk everything carefully, even seemingly benign messages from strangers.

Has the sudden increase in attention from Norway made us paranoid? You bet.

Has being exposed to the dark underside of Norwegian culture aroused our suspicions? Indeed.

Mail from strangers in Norway comes in three general categories:

  • Supportive. For example, praise, encouragement, offers to translate, and monetary donations.
  • Curious. Ethnic Norwegians with questions about us, and about Fjordman.
  • Ugly. Name-calling, hasty judgments, obscenities, wishes for our imminent demise, and questions about our parentage.

But now we arrive at a fourth category, which we have elected to call The Probe.

“But Baron,” you say, “what is a ‘probe’?”

Think of it as a poke, a pinch, an exploring hand. We know they want something, and given our Norwegian Experience, we wonder what their unspoken agenda is. What are the possible inferences to be drawn from their questions?

The example reproduced below arrived yesterday. It could be mere curiosity, or it may represent something darker. Our suspicions are aroused by its stylistic oddities. Pay attention to the spelling, grammar, and syntax in this email. It’s quite different from the usual English prose that we receive from Norwegians.

After you’ve read the email, and Dymphna’s and my concerns about it, please feel free to offer your own interpretations of this person’s strange statements and queries:


I’am a norwegian blogger, and i want to write a knew articel about the terroractions as happende in Oslo and Utøya 22.07.

I know Ander Behring Breivik used to ad comments on Gates Of Vienna and on, and he has the same attitude and meaning about islam and muslims as Fjordman, and have the same goal, “get Islam out of Europe and Norway”

I hope you can help me with a explaining, could Mr. Breivik been mentaly influence by your homepage and what is been writing their and mentaly influence by Fjordman’s writing on Gates Of Vienna ?? I have been reading on Gates Of Vienna as i said, do you know about any forums on internett with the same political goal as Gates Of Vienna?? Links ?

I would be very thankfull if you could help me with these questions.

Now let’s take a detailed look at this badly spelled text:

I’am a norwegian blogger,

So you say. However, you have neglected the basic blogger’s courtesy: providing us with the title and URL of your website. Since this information isn’t provided, I’ll just have to take your word for it.

and i want to write a knew articel about the terroractions as happende in Oslo and Utøya 22.07.

That’s nice. So if you do write this “knew” article, what new material will you use? What will be your point of view on Anders Behring Breivik’s horrid slaughter of the innocent? Is this “knew” article to be simply one more Norwegian pointing a finger and assigning blame? That’s been done already.

I know Ander Behring Breivik used to ad comments on Gates Of Vienna and on,

“Ander”? Do you mean “Anders”?

And do you mean his two innocuous comments on Gates of Vienna in September 2008? Because two comments do not a manifesto make.

I don’t understand Norwegian, so I have no idea what went on at

and he has the same attitude and meaning about islam and muslims as Fjordman,

You have not sourced this assertion. Bloggers do not make claims without linking to reliable sources that confirm the things they say.

Many Norwegians appear eager to conflate the ravings of a psychopath with the thoughtful essays of an accomplished scholar. At best this concerted ongoing attempt to smear Fjordman is sophistry. At worst it is criminal.

and have the same goal, “get Islam out of Europe and Norway”

This statement is not backed up by any primary sources from either person you purport to investigate. Based on his actions, Anders Behring Breivik’s goal was to blow up buildings and kill teenagers, which is diametrically opposed to any action Fjordman has ever proposed.

By their fruits ye shall know them.

I hope you can help me with a explaining, could Mr. Breivik been mentaly influence by your homepage and what is been writing their and mentaly influence by Fjordman’s writing on Gates Of Vienna ??

One of the widespread weaknesses I’ve observed in Scandinavian argumentation is the use of rhetorical fallacy. In this case, one could reasonably infer from your question that you indeed believe these embedded statements. I have read in lengthy translations from the Norwegian press the immoral attempts to hold Fjordman responsible for the actions of a person he never knew. I refuse to accept the cynical sophistry of this argument. The very notion that this gentle scholar is somehow to blame is repellant. No truly mature and moral being could make such an assumption.

So here’s a direct question for you: are you afraid to face what Breivik’s massacre means for Norwegian culture? Or do you prefer regress to the easier solution of finding a scapegoat? Adults face horrific mysteries and attempt to grasp them; children scream for scapegoats.

After years of denial, the Oslo police suddenly threw up their hands and admitted they “have lost the city”. This time, for some reason, your government-supported consensus media cooperated in propagating this information.

So on your blog in Norway — the one we haven’t seen — have you posted any essays about this new turn of events? Or are you, as we say in America, “still stuck on stupid”? Are you still digging through the rubbish looking for a fantasy connection between a mass murderer and a scholar?

I have been reading on Gates Of Vienna as i said,

No, you didn’t. You did not say that. And even as you say it now, I don’t believe you. Your email does not support your claim that you’ve read our blog.

do you know about any forums on internett with the same political goal as Gates Of Vienna??

You don’t ask what our goal is. I doubt that you know. If you’d ever read Gates of Vienna on a regular basis during the last seven years, you’d already know what our mission statement says. We are determined to keep the U.S. Constitution and the laws in all fifty states free from the incursions of sharia-based jurisprudence.

Islam is not a religion. It is a political and juridical totalitarian system designed to establish and maintain global hegemony. That is one reason Islam and Hitler’s National Socialism made such a good fit.

Before 9-11 I didn’t know much about Islam. Before 7-22 I didn’t know much about Norway. Now I know a lot more about both of them. Perhaps too much.

Links ?

Are you trawling for co-conspirators? Look on our sidebar. We have a blogroll. This is something you would know if you were a regular a reader of Gates of Vienna. Or if you were a blogger.

To paraphrase one of America’s favorite conservatives, the late William F. Buckley: “Look up your own damn links!”

I would be very thankfull if you could help me with these questions.

Consider your questions answered.

*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *

To our regular readers:

What set off alarm bells in my head about this email was the persistent and grotesque misspellings, including one of a common Norwegian name.

Up until this “blogger” wrote to us, all emails sent to us by Norwegians had been written in English of at least reasonably good quality. Norwegians are generally fluent in English.

It is as if the writer had composed the text of his message, and then run it through special misspelling software to make it seem authentic.

It’s too bad to be real. I think it’s a probe.


Anonymous said...

Why not simply reply and ask, "Whose side are you on?" They will self-select, zero-sum. If they don't show up again, then that tells you something. If they do show up again having ignored your query, they have self-revealed again. And if they address themselves to your query, at least you're forcing them to work harder for the reply they are seeking. Cheers,

Anonymous said...

IMO it is healthy to be "paranoid" i.e. careful -
Read this article from your news feed (again):

"... Danish blogger Margrethe Hansen, who spent three months infiltrating far-right groups online, says the Danish Defence League probably counts about 100 active members — a considerable number considering the group was founded last year — and has the potential to become the strongest far-right group in Denmark...."

Happy Advent from
Sophie Baer

Anonymous said...

That was NOT written by a native Norwegian. It might have been one of our "new" countrymen.

Kind Regards

Anonymous said...

This a Nebenkriegsschauplatz, i.e. a disctraction from your mission. Do not waste time on it. Keep up the good work.

Nemesis said...

I believe you have answered whoever this person is in as best a response as possible considering the assumptions that were included within the questions.

The 'bad' spelling is almost too perfect, and that in itself would have raised my own suspicions.

A fishing expedition by Muslims or Muslim related organization, or perhaps an organ of the Norwegian State clutching at straws?

bilbo said...

sounds like a poor effort at a probe.

it's intersting to note that an increasing number of people, my self included, now believe that breivik was an unwitting tool of the far left and that he survived in order to continue the damage to the counter jihad/ anti mass imigration movement.

Papa Whiskey said...

Might be a Middle Easterner. The death threats that regularly come in to Jihad Watch are as badly misspelled.

KG said...

Almost certainly a Muslim. The style and the spelling errors are pretty much identical to the hate mail we get from them at CR.
And we get quite a lot.

goethechosemercy said...

and he has the same attitude and meaning about islam and muslims as Fjordman, and have the same goal, “get Islam out of Europe and Norway”

Gross oversimplification.

I hope you can help me with a explaining, could Mr. Breivik been mentaly influence by your homepage and what is been writing their and mentaly influence by Fjordman’s writing on Gates Of Vienna ??

Do you believe in free will, "Norwegian blogger"?
Don't answer these questions, don't give any links.
He's trying to bait you; his intentions are not clear right from the get-go.
In other words, I suspect the worst.
But the big question you should answer him with, two of them really are:

Do you believe in the integrity of the individual?
Do you believe in free will?

I suspect he wouldn't even know any good definitions for these two things.
Norwegians are not Westerners.
That is my impression from this writer.
I know that's not true. I've read a few Norwegians here who are committed Westerners and know what they're committed to.
But I've also see a lot of imbecility and ugliness from this country, Norway.
There is no excuse for it.

Wading Across said...

I'm going to hazard a guess that it's a non-native Norwegian who probably hasn't gotten a fluent grasp of Norwegian, let alone English.

I had a Norwegian pen-pal when I was in high school some twenty odd years ago and she wrote as well, if not better, than me in English!

It would seem that this person is trying to get you to say something that they can then use against you and by extension Fjordman. "I'm just a friendly person asking heartfelt, interested questions..." Evidently they think you just stepped off the boat today.

I wouldn't have even bothered with the response via a posting, or if I had, it would have been done in a general, broad manner. That said, by posting the email, perhaps you're also alerting the trolls that you're on to their game. Their Nigerian scam won't work

Dymphna said...

@wading across:

I wouldn't have even bothered with the response via a posting, or if I had, it would have been done in a general, broad manner

The post serves several purposes:

it exposes the cynical & anxiously repetitive conflation of Fjordman and ABB which Norway's media and judicial system are using to re-direct any blame coming their way.

Looking at the explosion of essays on Fjordman the Bad in their state-supported media, it's obvious they've wanted to come after him for a very long time and this horrid massacre gave them the chance to do so.

It demonstrates why the pseudonyms used by bloggers in either Europe or our own deeply 'blue' states are an attempt to stay safe. Now that they've exposed Fjordman and set him up to take the fall for ABB, we can see why Scandinavia --particularly Sweden and Norway-- are dangerous places in which to go against the top-down, elite-driven "consensus".

It shows how stealth is part of the shame operation.

In addition, this dude's seeming ignorance serves as both an insult to us and to Fjordman. That it does so in an openly clumsy way is in itself interesting (in a grim way).

Whether or not to publish and fisk an email is an individual decision. Generally speaking, we do not publish emails without asking the writer's permission. However, I agree with the Baron's inferences re this guy's message. Besides, our readers deserve to see some of what lurks in the shadows.

From our donors' email messages, we knew they'd like to read this strange one. In fact, we've already rec'd responses to that effect in today’s mail.


I'm not sure what you mean by "a general way". Writing in generalities was one of the main faults of that email: the guy bruised himself jumping to unvalidated conclusions about who we are and about what Fjordman believes.

Since the ugly behavior & beliefs of the Norwegian state have become so public, I'm more paranoid about both Islam and Norway. I've got a 7/22 mindset, just like I have a 9/11 attitude. Both of those conclusions are based on the observed actions of those involved.

Dymphna said...

@ the first anon in the comments:

We don't write back to probers. Not a good idea. From our experience they are looking for mistakes in order to probe further.

A reasonable person could infer from the guy's leading questions and from his obvious untruths, that he doesn't know diddly about us, except for what he reads in the papers.

I mentioned to one of our Norwegian donors that I was considering posting some of the more egregiously ugly correspondence emanating from his country. He loved the idea and urged me to do so just for the satisfaction of Norwegians who are oppressed by the ruling p.c. mentality.

One fellow, who's gotten out of the country, said blame for ABB could be traced to the very early exposure of small children to state-run child care which is mostly done by uneducated females in childcare warehouses.

I gathered from his note that staying home isn't an option for the average Norwegian mother. They are encouraged to leave their babies soon after giving birth in order to return to work, which is where the real world is.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps this individual is not a blogger but one who participates online in forums such as YouTube or Facebook. Google a couple of the unique terms in this message such as the misspelled identity "Ander" combined with the unique script and date notation "Utøya 22.07". A couple of YouTube videos share this combination, including one by a "sinaizand" whose YT page provides another potential clue with an image of a 'cuz' making a request (bottom left of page).

Anonymous said...

Another Breivik:

High ranking SOCIALIST (PSOE Party) involved with jihadists on the 2004 Madrid train bombings

http: //www.

Pierre_Picaud said...

Well I have infiltrated far-Right organisations. Real Nazi ones that is. The CJ isn't far-Right. And have used similar techniques before, although as I have taught languages I was much more skilled at the "deliberate mistakes" so they would be convincing, rather than sending up red flags as this one clearly does.

It's a fishing expedition of some kind. You have one of two choices, play him to see what you can discover, or just cut your line loose and move on.

I'd favour the latter, the former is a fools errand and a complete waste of valuable time: life's too short.

You could of course examine the header of the email and run the senders IP through a reverse look-up to see if it really came from Norway. But this could easily be spoofed so it's no real answer either way.

It's too cack-handed to be intelligence. My money's on a low-grade hack (journalist) or Antifa.

Might it be a force? That's a more subtle stratagem. Are there other emails that arrived around the same time that you are taking more interest in as a result of this one, perhaps?

Anonymous said...

In Norway, at least back in my schooldays, we start English education at age 9-10, but we grow up with hearing and reading English every day.
Cartoons, movies, series etc so everyone here should have at least a basic grasp of English. (But the older generations didn't always have this part in their education, my mother for instance never got to learn it.)

This person could very well just be youngster as well as someone foreign. I see the oddly formed phrases that hint towards trying to make a link between ABB and gatesofvienna/fjordman ( i of course disagree that any such link can be made and its just a scapegoat hunt and certain groups using a tragedy for all its worth to hunt and silence opponents).

Regarding childcare dympha, its true as he says. You get 1 year tops at home with your newborn, at 80% pay. any longer and you get less. Meanwhile the other parent is forced to continue work but get the mercy of 2 weeks paid leave when the child is born and can take up to 10 weeks at home with the child while the mother goes back to work. In this country its economically near impossible with standard wages to live without 2 full time paying jobs, after 1 year most have no choice but to hand over the child to day care and go back to work if they are to keep a house/place to live.

Ill give you my personal example i have 2 young boys, my missus is a rape/child abuse victim and struggles to cope and function. (of course the perpetrator walked free, even with many witnesses coming forward and telling their story how he attempted the same on them).

Child protective services forced us from earliest possible time to have both our children in kindergarten from they were barely 1 years old so i could go to work. Giving me sick leave or other support isn't an option, there is no system for that, you work, you give your children to the state from year 1, unless your either rich or you have 1 income that's bigger than 2 average wages there is no way you can financially make it, especially if you live anywhere within 1 hour of any major city, the property/lease prices are just so insane.

I wont even get into how badly they will interfere in everything regarding the children's development if they don't follow the A4 curve and universal mold. Not to mention some of the stuff they are taught. Well it might not be religious, but its basically indoctrination all the same.

Anonymous said...

Hi from Germany!

Knowing a detail or two about languages, my impression is that this piece was not written by someone whose mother tongue is Norwegian. The misspellings, whether deliberate or not, do not seem typical for a Germanic/Norse learner of English. You may like to establish this by consulting an expert from a university with a reputable linguistics department.


Dymphna said...

@Anonymous father in Norway:

Oh my! What they tell us is really true: Norway *is* a totalitarian democracy. That such a wealthy country forces both parents to work for economic survival is truly horrible.

Here in the US it is much the same, though some families have decided to live poor so they can be together during the children's most important years. Whoever controls the baby's first three years controls the final adult.

As I said to one Norwegian donor in a thank you note*,

How sad: Norway is such a rik velstående nasjon and yet its people are so poor in REAL information about what goes on outside of Norway.They don't always know what is happening IN Norway itself...

Your description of your situation is heart-rending. Your poor family. In the 1990s a housewife, Amy Amy Dacyczyn wrote a newsletter, "The Tightwad Gazette".

[The term 'tightwad' refers to someone who has a 'wad' (a small bunch) of money and holds on to it firmly. It's a put-down word but she meant it in a humorous way. In fact, I've heard Norwegians and Dutch and Scots referred to as "stingy tightwads" but we receive money from donors who live in all those places so it's not true.]

Amy & her husband were determined to keep their kids home and out of childcare. So she became a "stay-at-home-mom" on a limited income.
She's 'retired' from writing now, but her book lives on as THE best info on creative cheap living.

There is an interview w/ her here. They have a link to her book & say that a librarian in Maine claims it is the most frequently stolen book in their system.

The Baron and I live on the donations our readers send, plus small amounts we pull from our savings. We refuse to think about what will happen when the savings are gone. The Baron has been out of work for a long time now, so we know how to survive on very little. Part of the secret is learning to live without new "stuff". Our house is small so we don't have room for "stuff" anyway.

*yes, I am STILL writing thank you notes. I appreciate everyone's patience. I only write them on the days I'm feeling well enough to do a good job. Hey, if someone takes the time to give of themselves, they deserve a decent response. And yes, the Baron frets about it ;-)

Dymphna said...

@ Anon from Germany...

Do you think ABB's lawyer or the state prosecutor is subjecting his so-called manifesto to a creditable forensic linguist expert to see if ALL the pieces of The Turgid Treatise seem to have been written by someone whose native language is NOT English. If they submitted it for examination, we'd know if ABB really did write the parts he claimed to have done, or if he had "help". IOW, I ask again, is it possible he was weaponized by those who wish to create their very own "lonewhiterightwingextremist".

(I'll bet that looks good in German.)

If they don't have it examined and the results released after the trial then we'll know this is just for show.

Doesn't mean Hillary will stop her campaign to "name, blame, shun and shame" people who think like we do. After all, she carries water for the OIC team & they long ago named us as Baddies.

Those beserkers, wherever they appear in the West, are a product of our atomized culture. Every single western culture has had at least one of these idjits. And I'll bet that in most cases, the father is either absent or abusive, and momma is less than optimum.

These ppl were probably warehoused in child"care" centers at a young age. Pop into one and you'll see the tiny boys full of rage who've already been labeled "anger management" problems. Oops...I mean they used to be full of rage. Now they're full of medication...

Check out the childcarers: the women who choose these jobs are scraping the bottom of the barrel. Those places are hell to work in when they're too big. Try to find a man doing that job.

Lotsa random killers, 99.9% male. 99.9% raised by women the whole day long...

Recipe for grown-up berserkers. But do you think this court will address that problem of Breivik? He missed the female pol he'd planned to kill. Went there on the wrong day. Figured he might as well go ahead with it...

...ABB's massacre is partly the ressponsiblity of wikileaks. Those things turned on lights in all sorts of dark corners and creatures fled, dropping their projects.

I propose that ABB may have been one such project. I also propose that he believed there would be others to follow him not because he was delusional, but because he was repeating what he'd heard from his "friends", the ones who kept him supplied with steroids until they got outta Dodge real quick.

Many dark corners here, but most of them are empty now. ABB's ruined brain has retained much coherent info if one is insistent on believing he dreamed this up by himself...

Russians could tell us a lot. Maybe they shared in a quid pro quo with Norweeg secret police. But we'll never know...

...No wonder the press has rec'd its instructions to double down on Fjordman...they don't have anyone else handy.


Anonymous said...

..from Germany, re @Dymphna

I agree with everything you said.

Above I was not referring to ABB and his Manifesto at all, only to this little "probe" because you invited opinions on where it might come from or what its intentions were. Maybe I forgot to say it more precisely, of course the misspellings could be fabricated all the way, it actually even looks pretty much so, but if they aren't, they don't look typical for a true-bred native of this corner.

As for ABB, well, as y'all know at the moment they are trying to file him under insane. From the moment when news broke about this, I had one sinister suspicion: Authorities are scared out of their pants at the outlook of having to deal with the real issues that led up to this. Even more sinister the conclusion, that they must know exactly why things are as they are. Having to bring all this to light would lead to complete defeat of their concept of society (so aptly named "totalitarian democracy" somewhere around), and there is no way for an orderly or even remotely face-saving retreat. It wouldn't surprise me at all if some unfortunate, fatal accident or medical condition would befall Mr. Breivik in the near future.

Copywriter said...

Most certainly a muslim.
Here in The Netherlands we have second generation muslims who spell just as badly.
Those people have no feeling for language whatsoever.
English, Dutch, they screw up everything, that's how you can pick them out.