Can you believe it? A brief excerpt from Fitna was shown on the BBC tonight, along with Geert Wilders explaining that Islam is a “fascist ideology”, and not a religion. On Al-Beeb, of all places!
Hell has surely frozen over:
Hat tip: Vlad Tepes.
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14 comments:
Ok. Since Hell has frozen over, I'll not complain (too much) about all the snow and ice which caused me such work a few minutes ago just to get my car into my driveway.
If Hell has frozen over, it stands to reason that Ohio will be a bit chilly.
I'm sure IQ goldfish mr Andy Choudary is going to be upset now and throw a few fits on YouTube.
Geert Wilders's greatest error is his aim to ban the Koran. This negates his promise that all law-abiding muslims will be treated as equal citizens and detracts from his credibility.
Let's face it: banning the Koran is unreasonable. Try to imagine how would Christians react to the ban of the Bible. A far more reasonable demand would be to ask for an edition free of the violent verses.
I wish GW all the best.
pragensis, editing the Koran would be much, much harder than banning it. How would you enforce the selling of the edited editions? And how would you get the Muslims to use it if what they believe to be the Word of God has been tampered with? An invocation of Godwin's Law is tempting, and in this case apt, but due to my distaste, I shall refrain (it's the book!).
It's much simpler just to ban it. Less headaches. They can complain about discrimination, but they'd complain even if they edited the Koran. Besides, it's the violent verses that should make you sit up and pay attention - that's where the origin of the Islamic threat lies.
If they can ban Mein Kampf, then they can ban the quran as well. After all Wilders compared both books to each other. In the end it will end up being banned anyway. Europeans are really tired of mahoundians by now.
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TELEPOLIS, Peter Mühlbauer 09.08.2007, http://www.heise.de/tp/r4/artikel/26/26203/1.html
Geert Wilders, Fraktionschef und Gründer der Partij voor de Vrijheid (PVV), schrieb der Zeitung de Volkskrant in einem Brief, der gestern Aufsehen erregte: "Der Kern des Problems ist der faschistische Islam, die kranke Ideologie von Allah und Mohammed, wie sie in der islamistischen 'Mein Kampf' niedergelegt ist . 'Mein Kampf' solle verboten bleiben, und wenn das so sei, dann eben auch der Koran. Die Meinungsfreiheit ende dort, wo zu Gewalt aufgerufen werde. Im Koran stehe, dass anderen die Köpfe abgehackt werden sollten. Mohammed war in seiner Zeit in Messina ein aggressiver Warlord, ein gefährlicher Verrückter und ein Massenmörder. [...] Ich habe genug vom Koran in den Niederlanden: Verbietet das faschistische Buch. Es gäbe, so Wilders, "Suren im Überfluss, welche die Muslime zu Tod und Verderben aufrufen und anstiften". Der holländische Politiker hatte den Brief an die Zeitung geschrieben, nachdem Ehsan Jami, der Gründer eines Verbandes für moslemische Apostaten, nach gewaltsamen Übergriffen zweier Marokkaner und eines Somalis am Samstag unter Polizeischutz gestellt werden musste. Die Anwältin Els Lucas versuchte daraufhin Wilders Äußerungen zu verbieten, indem sie den Abgeordneten anzeigte."
"Das von Wilders erregte Aufsehen war der Anlass, dass Kultusminister Ronald Plasterk von der Partij van de Arbeid (PvdA) in einem Interview mit der Zeitschrift Hollands Diep anregte, dass man, um nicht in Argumentationsnöte zu geraten, ja auch Adolf Hitlers Schrift "Mein Kampf" wieder zum Verkauf freigeben könnte: Den Koran zu verbieten, das geht vielen Menschen zu weit [...] Wilders hat recht, dass es befremdlich ist, dass 'Mein Kampf' verboten ist. Lasst es öffentlich erhältlich sein." GroenLinks (GL) und die liberale Volkspartij voor Vrijheid en Democratie (VVD) erklärten daraufhin ihre Zustimmung zu dem vorschlag."
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Now, if we shall take it straight from the horse's mouth - Wilders did primarily say:
"The kern of the problem is fascistic Islam, this sick ideology of Allah and Mohammed, as it is laid down in the Islamic 'Mein Kampf'. If Hitler's 'Mein Kampf' should remain outlawed (illegal, banned), so shall also be the fate of Muhammed's 'Mein Kampf, the Koran,"
There is actually a condition associated with the proposal to ban the Koran!
If - so - also known, I guess, as 'logical implication', ...if and only if...then...
That is not quite the same as just demanding that the Korans should be banned.
Right, isn't it? - all you happy text interpretors.
You were not all educated in a deficient, gramscian impregnated,
socialdemocratic Swedish school, I hope!
Anti-Islamist --
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ANTI-ISLAMIST said…
Robin, you said it!
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de Volkskrannt, Van onze verslaggeefster Sara Berkeljon op 08 augustus '07, 02:47, bijgewerkt 27 januari '09, 16:10
AMSTERDAM - Geert Wilders wil de Koran verbieden. Dat schrijft de fractievoorzitter van de Partij voor de Vrijheid vandaag in een ingezonden brief in de Volkskrant. De politicus vergelijkt het islamitische heilige boek met Mein Kampf van Adolf Hitler. Dat boek mag in Nederland sinds het einde van de Tweede Wereldoorlog niet meer worden verkocht. Wilders over de Koran: ‘Verbied dat ellendige boek zoals ook Mein Kampf verboden is!’
Vogelaar: uitspraak Wilders ‘schadelijk'
link 1 link2
Devergelijking met het nationaal-socialistische geschrift gaat overigens niet helemaal op, licht Wilders telefonisch toe. Zo mag Mein Kampf op universiteiten worden behandeld, is het bezit ervan niet strafbaar en is het boek in diverse bibliotheken te lezen. De Koran als studieobject wil Wilders nog wel toestaan, maar daar blijft het bij: ‘Een verbod is een verbod. Dus moet niet alleen verkoop, maar ook gebruik in moskeeën en bezit in huiselijke kring worden bestraft. Als dat in de huidige wetgeving niet kan, moet er een nieuwe verbodsbepaling komen.’ De politicus wil op die manier een signaal afgeven aan radicale moslims die de Koran zouden gebruiken om geweld te legitimeren. Als voorbeeld haalt hij ‘de overvallers’ van Ehsan Jami aan. Zij sloegen de voorzitter van het Comité voor afvallige moslims zaterdag in elkaar – vermoedelijk vanwege zijn controversiële uitspraken over de islam. Volgens Wilders vonden de daders in de Koran een excuus Jami te molesteren. ‘Genoeg is genoeg’, schrijft de fractievoorzitter. Nadat hij tijdens de verkiezingscampagne de toename van het aantal moslims in Nederland een ‘tsunami’ noemde, en na zijn pleidooien voor een stop op de bouw van moskeeën en voor een algeheel boerkaverbod, richt de politicus zijn pijlen nu op de Koran: een ‘fascistisch boek’, aldus Wilders. Hij zal voor zijn voorstel geen Kamermeerderheid krijgen, beseft de PVV- voorman. ‘Helaas worden onze voorstellen wel vaker met 141 tegen 9 stemmen verworpen. Maar als ik me daardoor zou laten ,eiden, kan ik er beter meteen mee stoppen. Dit boek zet aan tot haat en moord, en past daarom niet in onze rechtsorde. Als moslims willen participeren, moeten ze afstand nemen van deze Koran. Ik zie in dat dit veel gevraagd is, maar we moeten stoppen met het doen van concessies.’
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to be continued
Pragenis: "Geert Wilders's greatest error is his aim to ban the Koran. This negates his promise that all law-abiding muslims will be treated as equal citizens and detracts from his credibility."
You're speaking either out of ignorance or out of dishonesty. As has been pointed out, Wilders' call for European states to ban old Mo's murderous work is is actually a demand that European states (and elites) honor freedom of speech. He's pointing to the hypocrisy of banning old Adolph's murderous work while ignoring the even more murderous nature -- and immediate threat posed by the adherents of -- the Koran.
Pragenis: "Let's face it: banning the Koran is unreasonable. Try to imagine how would Christians react to the ban of the Bible. A far more reasonable demand would be to ask for an edition free of the violent verses."
Again: either ignorance or dishonesty.
It's not within any government's competence to tell us Christians what is or is not written in the Bible. The same goes for that wicked book, the Kora; ad for Hitler's book, as for Marx's book.
Pragenis: "Let's face it: banning the Koran is unreasonable. Try to imagine how would Christians react to the ban of the Bible.
Is it really unreasonable?
Muslims have banned the Bible. Try carrying one with you in Saudi Arabia. Let us know how that works out for you.
You are far too accepting of double standards, Pragenis.
I think Pragenis is right about that issue. Geert Wilders is my hero, but banning books is something not suitable for free society. Think for example universities. They should be free to study the Koran.
And Geert is right when he says, if Mein Kampf is forbidden, so should be the Koran. Mein Kampf should not be forbidden and so should not be the Koran. I think that Geert is thinking this too.
Ps. Mein Kampf is not forbidden here in Finnland. It's not dangerous book.
Mein Kapmf is, as I recall, available to those who have an academic interest in the Nazis (and said book is one of the few places where Nazi ideology gets put down) or Hitler. I can well imagine that the Koran would be placed in a similar situation - to be studied by the academic community, but not available in general bookstores.
And remember, liberty must itself be limited in order to be possessed (an example being telling the enemy where your forces are - free speech is no defence).
READ ADOLPHUS, NOT ALLAH!
Adolphus might be somewhat boring, but still is much more interesting than Allah.
But above all Adolphus is not drab, dull, unpleasant and disagreeable as Allah in the Mohammed's taking down.
Nota Bene - Adolphus was not mendacious!
These statistics mean nothing to suicidal multiculturalists:
-1/29/07 Daily Telegraph UK: 40% of Muslims, ages 16 to 24, want Sharia law; 13% admire al-Qaeda; 36% believe apostates should be executed; 75% believe that women should wear veils.
-5/22/07 Reuters: 25% of young American Muslims believe in suicide bombings to fight the West.
-7/10/07 worldpress.org: Poll of Muslims in Egypt, Morocco, Pakistan and Indonesia indicates that 75% believe in strict application of Sharia law.
-2/08 United Nations Report (un.org/en/women/endviolence): Mainly in Muslims nations, over 130 million girls and women alive today have undergone FGM (Female Genital Mutilation); each year 2 million girls are subjected to FGM.
-7/27/08 Sunday Times UK: 33% of Muslim students support killing for islam; 33% want world Islamic law.
-12/2/0/09 The Independant, London: UK fails to halt female genital mutilation; “cutters” being flown in by Muslims.
-3/8/10 Daily Telegraph: Sharia courts in Britain have already judged that a man may have up to four wives at any one time; that a wife has no property rights in the event of divorce; that a woman may not leave her home without her husband's consent; and that a woman cannot marry without the presence and permission of a male guardian.
-1/30/09 Timesonline UK: Muslim population growth between 2004 and 2008 was ten times greater than the rest of society.
-2/09 The Finnish Ministry of Defense published a position paper saying: In 1991 there were 300 mosques in Russia. Today there are 8,000, financed by Turkey, Iran and Saudi Arabia.
-8/8/09 Daily Telegraph, London: Europe's Muslim population has more than doubled in the past 30 years and will have doubled again by 2015.
-10/28/10, Daily Mail: Mohamed or derivatives of that name is now the number one name in all of England.
-7/5/11 Daily Mail, London: Islamic extremists have called on British Muslims to establish three independent states within the UK.
The Prime Minister of Turkey (the most secular of all Muslim nations) Recep Erdagon expressed the threat of Islam most effectively:
-5/11/03 NY Times: “Democracy is like a streetcar. When you come to your stop, you get off.”
-8/21/07 Reported by Milliyet, Turkey: He commented on the term “moderate Islam” saying, “There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam, and that’s it.”
-2/13/08 telegraph.com UK: “Assimilation is a crime against humanity.”
-12/09 Syrian Arab News Agency: "Islam means peace, and it cannot tolerate terrorism. We reject all attempts to link Islam with terrorism." He called on the Organization of the Islamic Conference within the United Nations to unify to end Islamophobia.
-10/09/10 huffingtonpost.com: Turkey’s PM Erdogan said: “Mosques are our barracks, domes our helmets, minarets our bayonets, believers our soldiers.”
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