Thursday, April 03, 2008

Spain Needs Two Million More Foreigners

From ANSAmed:

Spain needs over two million new foreign workers, 157,000 a year, until 2020, according to a study by the Group for Reflection and Proposal on Business and Immigration quoted by ABC daily today. According to the report, the main cause for this need is the ageing of the Spanish population, with a proportion of young people that has decreased twice in the past 25 years and the local universities losing over 300,000 students until 2015.

The percentage of foreign workers, who generate nearly half of the Spanish GDP growth, will grow from the current 20-25% to 35% of the Spanish workforce in 2010. The authors of the report said they would meet the various political parties to try and convince them that the arrival of foreign workers is “an opportunity for the economy” and will call upon the government to adopt a new law on immigration “to facilitate the legal entry, take advantage of the new arrivals and encourage integration”.


Hat tip: insubria.

[post ends here]

18 comments:

Memories of the Willow Tree said...

http://www.britishmuslimsong.co.uk/

It's nice to see that the Muslims in England have kept their English traditions and not "sold" out to non Muslim culture.

Muslims have lived in England for hundreds of years, here's a slice of their rich history, captured in beautiful folk song.

Maybe England can take in a few more million Muslims?

That would only be fair?

Diamed said...

Why integrate when you can just conquer and replace the natives? Since spanish have no kids, what would be the point of tying your fate to a sinking ship? And obviously the GDP will grow if there are more people in your country, the real question is whether PER CAPITA GDP growth has gone up due to these foreigners? Yet again a lie used to justify the unjustifiable.

Paardestaart said...

Ah - very reassuring
Unfortunately Spain can decide upon immigration without anybody's say-so..Fortuyn was right: we should have revoked the Schengen-agreement. Once these two million immigrants arrive in Spain they can simply get on a train and go everywhere they want in Europe.
Technically Spain does not even have to make a decision; Rumanians, Poles, Hungarians, Bulgarians, Cszechs do not need permission at all - they'll arrive anyway. Hurray for Eurabia, our transnational, post-democratic nightmare.
Camp of the Saints..It's happening folks.

Anonymousterry said...

Say bye bye to the Spanish as we now know them! Terry

Sodra Djavul said...

So I'm terribly confused here. Perhaps I don't really understand Economics as well as I thought.

So the concept that requires all this new immigration is that it is labor that drives GDP growth, then?

That flies in the face of the entire concept of post-industrialist "information age" economies. Fewer workers, working smarter, not harder.

I look at it the other way around: let's say that the "owners" of the Spanish economy numbered 25 million in 1990, and numbered 20 million in 2000 (just for demonstration purposes). That would mean the per capita economic growth increased by 20%.

Yet you have these groups insisting that in order to keep the economy strong, you have to import third world labor and basically give them an economic handout from your own back pocket.

Japan is aging fast. They know it. But those Japanese who are young are actually benefitting from the trend. Being young with more assets at your disposal than their parents or grandparents...

As usual, backwards logic backed up by institutionalized "white guilt."

- Sodra

Sodra Djavul said...

Perhaps I didn't explain that last post quite so well. The current American GDP is $13.13 trillion. The current population is 301,139,947. These stats are taken from the CIA World Factbook for the United States. That works out to approximately $43,600 in per capita GDP by my calculations.

Now, let's decrease the population from 300,000,000 to 200,000,000. Now that works out to $65,650. As per capita wealth directly affects the standard of living, I don't understand what the issue is with negative population growth.

Quite frankly, I don't think the American economy is worth maintaining if we have to import third world mores into my country to somehow maintain what people consider our optimum population. And I don't understand why we should even try. It's better off for the youth of America to lock our borders, let the third world DIAF, and put up with the decrease in population. It ends up with a higher standard of living.

- Sodra

Queen said...

With 450 million Spanish-speaking Christians in Latin America to choose from as immigrants, Spain picks Muslims who don't speak their language, or share their culture or religion.

We Westerners really are dumber than a box of rocks. We're insane.

Sodra Djavul said...

Now, I could understand if some people would consider my comparison simplistic if the assumption was that GDP would decrease either proportionally or more rapidly as the population itself went down.

However, that would only be true for economies whose primary driver is labor, such as agricultural economies. I think that negative population growth is not necessarily bad, and that importing the third world to make up for this "optimal" population level is simply suicidal.

- Sodra

latte island said...

If Spain wants more people, they should offer political asylum to white South Africans, who are being murdered and denied jobs because they're white. And unlike the immigrants Spain is likely to get, white South Africans can support themselves and assimilate.

rholme said...

That would require that the immigrants actually worked. Right now it would make more economic sense to throw them out and save the increased welfare expenses.
But let's imagine for a second that by some miracle the immigrants actually started to work. Then what to do when those immigrants got old? Import more immigrants? And more when those get old?

A study on the exact same subject in Denmark showed that if we should solve the problem of an aging population by importing more immigrants, then (since the immigrants also get old) the need would be exponential and within few generations require several hundred million people.

It does not make any sense to import labor to support the old people. The only solution is to raise retirement age, which makes a lot more sense since we also stay young for a longer time.

I simply don’t understand why they consider our increasing live span as something bad in the first place. It is a great thing that we live loner, and the loner we live the less people we need to be to generate the same GDP, if we work longer that is. But the even more ridiculous claim is that we would solve anything by importing more immigrants. It seems to me more like a political project disguised as science, much like the so-called Christian Science.

rholme said...

loner = longer :)
Sorry for my crappy English.

Stephen Renico said...

So, let me see if I understand this correctly...

The Spanish are so lazy and selfish that the simple acts of f*cking and having children are just too much to ask of them. The resulting population shortage requires that they import non-Spaniards to fill the gap.

Western civilization is swirling down the drain.

talnik said...

One phrase from a post on Brussels Journal keeps swirling around in my mind: "population replacement".
The post was about France but applies here as well. http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3129

Aguador said...

To Stephen Renico:

I'm a Spaniard and I'm going to correct your statement:

Spanish people is not really dumb. To have children in Spain is not cheap (if you know a bit Spanish reality, and I assume that u don't). But, for our governors, to carry on lots of immigrants is cheaper than to help families grow their children.

Our governors, with their stupid natality and immigration policies (with surely bastard interests beneath them), have been created the problem. But there are at least 10,000,000 voters who say to our Government "yes to immigration, but with control", and of course NOT "papers for all".

For the rest of commentators:

I'm afraid about how far will go our Government in this surrending to Musilm subtle invasion...

Greetings,
Aguador

Afonso Henriques said...

People, Sodra is right saying that we should look to GDP per Capita rather than to GDP.

But the Socialists of Spain can only care about "GDP growing" so that things go a long. They don't care about the especultive bubble they are creating as long as the stupid people has a snse of liberty...
Also, the immigrants return to their lands, in teory. Of course, they are not colonists... they will return. That's how they help us with the ageing population problems, in theory at least.

Somebody said that there are 500 million Spaniards in the Americas to embrace in Spain. Yes there are some people who could integrate easily, but not anybody. Please, don't think that Spain equals Mexico...

Queen said...

Somebody said that there are 500 million Spaniards in the Americas to embrace in Spain. Yes there are some people who could integrate easily, but not anybody. Please, don't think that Spain equals Mexico... Well I wasn't talking about Mexico, I was talking about civilized people, like Argentines or Chileans. As I said before, Spain could afford to be choosy with its immigrants, and cream off the top of the best of each South American country, but instead it takes the worst possible type of immigrants around: Muslims. And it isn't just Spain; I read on an Italian blog that the socialist Italian government turned down the chance to give residency to thousands of Italian-speaking Argentines in favor of - guess who? -- Muslims. Because the Italian Argentines were too conservative and didn't want to destroy the West or kill a bunch of Westerners. . .As I said before, we Westerners are too stupid to live. Turning down our own kith and kin in favor of people who want to destroy us -- what kind of people do this?

laine said...

There are holes you could drive a truck through in the claim that "we need immigrants to work because of our aging population".

Some have already been mentioned:

Are the cultures you're importing actually known for their work ethic? If not, and they are known for their breeding and polygamy, they will sink your Welfare state.

Why not import those who already speak your language? Huge savings on X as second language classes.

Family reunification policies make a joke out of lowering the age of your population if you let immigrants as most Western countries do bring their elderly parents and even grandparents over where they have not paid a penny of taxes and where their upkeep is much more expensive than in their home countries. One young couple of two workers is a net drain if they bring over both sets of parents making 4 people collecting free health care in the most expensive years.

Why is no other solution ever ever discussed? Like discouraging frivolous abortions and lowering taxes so young people can afford to have families. Right now there's a ludicrous situation that a young married couple is supporting someone else's granny with their exorbitant taxes instead of being allowed to keep the money to have their own child!

And of course there's the point that has been made many times on this site, that Mexicans are allowed to keep Mexico Mexican, Africans are allowed to favor blacks, China and Japan to keep their countries exclusively for their own race, but every country founded by European whites must import dissimilar immigrants to prove their non-racism to the point that they become minorities in their own lands. This is required of no one else.

The Canadian conservative government just proposed some minor changes in immigration policy that are just about clearing up a back-log of hundreds of thousands of applications and the opposition is cynically trying to twist it into "racism", dredging up a twenty year old remark the Prime Minister made about immigration changing the composition of Canada.

The third world can and will overwhelm the European established countries with the connivance of leftists for whom racism is the unwillingness to commit cultural suicide.

The least racist cultures are being replaced by more racist cultures. In the coming world after Pax Americana has been destroyed, African blacks for example, can forget about any aid from the Chinese except arms with which to kill each other and to Muslims, they're worthy only to be slaves.

It will be a much rougher world out there under new management, whoever they may be.

Joanne said...

Ban abortions - problem solved; it is amazing how people will make do when they have to put the needs of their children before their own. Immigrants will not stop having children because they believe it is too expensive to raise children, so why should the Spanish use this reasoning.