Monday, November 05, 2007

Disinformation Being Spread by Belgium?

James Lewis at American Thinker has a good essay on what he says may be Political Black Ops in Belgium.

Normally I excerpt posts and add analysis. But this one is crucial, and I can't improve on what Mr. Lewis says here. Thus the whole article appears below.
[Mr. Lewis blogs at Dangerous Times]

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A minor war has broken out in the conservative blogosphere, and it smells suspicious. I don’t have a smidgen of proof for what I suspect, but here’s the story.

Brussels Journal, edited by Paul Belien and others, reads like a solid, sensible conservative website, one of the best in Europe. It has a lot of smart people who don’t go along with the PC Commissars in the capital of the new EU, Brussels. They make a very good case for being skeptical about the ruling class over there. Brussels Journal has never seemed out of line to me.

Editor Paul Belien is a defender of the “Counter-jihad” movement in Belgium, which has been subjected to police beatings when they attempted to conduct a peaceful demonstration. Belien is warning that the Left in Europe is using immigrant Islamic votes to expand its power dramatically, leading to a Left-Islamist alliance that he believes will control Europe in the coming years. Sounds familiar? A Democrat amnesty for 12 million illegals, anyone?

All that seems important and credible enough. But now Charles Johnson, of Little Green Footballs fame, has gotten into a fight with Paul Belien. Forgetting the who-said-what-when minutiae, the question raised by Charles is whether Paul Belien is defending people who are tainted with racist or totalitarian ideas. In particular, the question is whether Paul Belien is too close to the Vlaams Belang party, which is accused of having racist or neo-Nazi associations. LGF is a very good site, and Charles Johnson is understandably passionate about keeping his reputation spotless.

So now we get into a classical hall of mirrors, of claim and counter-claim, and maybe even spy and counter-spy. Because it’s a good guess that the overheated Belgian political scene is full of mudslinging, disinformation, planted stories, and psyops.

The biggest single question is whether the conservative blogosphere can be blown apart with mutual accusations about smelly associations. That could destroy the blogs as a credible source of information in the coming US election. So this type of malignancy could spread, if we are not careful. If Brussels Journal is going to be discredited, so could all the other major blogs.
- - - - - - - - -
Here is a case in point. Wikipedia states that:

“According to Brussels Journal it is a nonpartisan publication. However, Belgian media often[citation needed] link it to Vlaams Belang since Belien’s wife, Alexandra Colen, is a parliament member for the party[1] and Belien receives a salary from them.[citation needed] But Belien himself has been at odds with Vlaams Belang at times, criticizing the party for its populism.[2] There are other writers on Brussels Journal, both Belgian and non-Belgian, who have no affiliation to the party and who express other opinions.”

Is that messy enough for you? There are some facts in that paragraph,and three unsourced allegations.[emphasis added] One checkable fact is that Belien’s wife is a member of the Belgian Parliament for the Vlaams Belang. It would be nice to hear from her, to understand her political associations. But maybe Paul Belien should be judged by his own words, not his wife’s associates.

It’s a good guess that the Vlaams Belang party has been infiltrated for a long time by government agents. That adds another layer.

Belgium has long been a hotbed of secessionism. The French-speaking Belgians bear deep grudges against the Flemish, and vice versa. It’s pretty bad, much like the American South right after the Civil War.

So in Belgium today, the French-speaking population controls the power centers, while the Flamands work harder, are more productive, and have larger numbers. That doesn’t make the Flemish happy. They are constantly wondering whether to secede from the Walloons.

It is vital therefore, as a matter of survival, for the Walloons to keep the Flemish out of power. Splitting the Flemish vote is crucial, and one way to do that is to tar the most radical Flemish political party. It is not beyond the ethics of a power elite to smear opponents with the worst political sin in sight, i.e., association with racists and neo-Nazis.

Europe is still traumatized by its Nazi past, and the Nazis were not limited to Germany. They had sympathizers in every European country.

So it’s not impossible that the governing elites are sending agents provocateurs into the ranks of the Flemish Interest party, to parade around in Nazi drag and make nice with White Power sleazoids in the US.

Edgar Hoover hoovered up the Ku Klux Klan during the civil rights era. He infiltrated the Klan until every other guy in white sheets was an FBI plant. But it’s easy to slip from being an undercover cop into actually provoking acts of racist violence. That’s how undercover agents might prove they are doing their jobs.

There’s a reason why “agent provocateur” is a French expression. It’s an old political trick in Europe. The US has also used them, hopefully (but not always) only in legally defined national security cases. Provoking crimes is illegal for undercover cops under American law, and it should be.

In Europe there is much greater fear about neo-Nazis, for understandable reasons. Americans, if they think about them at all, tend to see them as clowns and weirdos, but the Germans see a potential SS goose-stepping into power. You can bet that the German government infiltrates their neo-Nazis.

So is the Vlaams Belang a white racist outfit? Here is their website, along with its political manifesto. Here is part of it.

“The Vlaams Belang is a party of Flemish patriots. … It is an instrument for the advancement of the national and cultural identity of Flanders. Through its political initiatives the Vlaams Belang aims to ensure that the organisation and government of the state are (co-) determined by the need to preserve the cultural identity and the national interests of the Flemish people. The state is but a structure. In accordance with the principle of self-determination the state exists to serve the people. The state should serve the people, not the other way round.”

“In an Anglo-Saxon context the term ‘conservative’ would be used, as opposed to ‘liberal’. Indeed, we recognise man as a free agent, with all his human qualities and flaws, and we reject ideologies that presuppose the ‘makeability’ of mankind and that advocate social engineering. Tradition, virtues and morality, as these have grown through time, must be respected and are constitutive elements of the society of the future.”


This stuff could come out of the GOP platform.

So whom do you believe? The trouble is that anywhere you look in Europe you can find smelly associations. The French themselves were by no means clean of Nazi associations sixty years ago, just as famous French intellectuals like Sartre were proud to be associated with good old mass-murdering Stalin and Mao. Socialist President Francois Mitterand started his political career as a fascist. The whole European governing class has a very bad case of the guilts, and a lot of them deserve it.

The French-speaking elite in Belgium probably believes that they are the only ones standing between civilization and a Nazi revival. That is a common belief in all the European elites. It is one of the major arguments for the European Union, which is hardly an model of democratic governance. The elected members of the EU don’t govern, and the governing elites are not elected. The sneering elites tend to look upon ordinary people as racists. In fact the inconvenient truth is that the Nazis recruited very successfully from the elites themselves.

So it’s a snake pit. Without knowing any specifics, I’m willing to bet that Vlaams Belang is penetrated by government agents. Whether they take the next step and act as agents provocateurs is an interesting question --- but here is a photo (scroll down) of a young woman posing in Nazi costume at a rally in Sweden ten years ago. Is she a neo-Nazi? Sure looks like it. But how grossly stupid do you have to be to parade in full fascist drag for the cameras when your political party is trying to gain more public trust to win the next election?

I visited Belgium several years ago, and just happened to see a TV news program featuring some spokesfolks for Vlaams Belang. They looked like extras from theStar Wars bar scene; if they ever lost their jobs in Belgium they could go straight to Central Casting. There’s always a need in show business for bad guys who really look like bad guys. It was amazing. I can’t imagine a real political party parading those people on TV. Imagine if the Republican Party of Mississippi had spokespeople straight out of Deliverance? Would they be for real?

In Europe the electronic media tend to be government-owned, like the BBC (and we know how fair-minded they are). European governments in their turn are mostly owned by parties of the Left. We know that those people are not afraid to use dirty tricks to stay in power. London’s socialist mayor does not mind appealing to blatant anti-Semitism to get Pakistani votes. Jacques Chirac stands legally accused today for using dirty tricks against the new president of France, Nicolas Sarkozy. The BBC has admitted to smuggling in its own undercover “journalists” to sniff out racism at a Conservative Party meeting. Nice people.

The government-owned media in the EU are constantly looking for racism on the Right, when in fact their own record is very bad. Even the British Tories are constantly trying to duck the charge of racism, even though they led the fight against Hitler. That’s the power of selective memory.

Bottom line:

The conservative blogosphere is not immune to disinformation ops. If the American Left can’t knock out conservative talk radio with the Fairness Doctrine, they have enough billionaires who are happy to sponsor dirty tricks to split the conservative movement. “Black PR” is quite likely to happen during the coming election. Keep an eye out for it.

It is therefore at least possible that Charles Johnson has been taken in by disinformation. It’s easy to fall for suspicious information on the web. I would guess that Paul Belien and the writers for Brussels Journal are really decent people. They are constantly smeared by the Belgian Left, which is practically a proof of their personal probity. But they have some unfinished business.

There is a reasonable answer to this mess, which is to ask that Caesar’s wife be above suspicion. After American Labor was penetrated by Communist agents in the 1930s and 40s, the AFL-CIO expelled unions that didn’t clean up their act. That was an act of public clarification --- it engendered real trust in pro-American union leaders like George Meany and Ronald Reagan, who began his political career as president of the Screen Actors Guild.

One reason why the American Left is in such bad shape today is that they no longer bother to clean out their totalitarians. Conservatives are doing well today in part because William Buckley and others drew a sharp line against racists decades ago. Conservatives today are delighted to see Clarence Thomas and Bobby Jindal achieving high office, not just because they are good people, but also because their success declares to the world who we really are.

So it may be sensible to ask conservatives elsewhere to prove their good intentions, just as we need to demand that the Democrats throw out their totalitarians. Maybe Paul Belien should clarify his position on these issues.

Vlaams Belang should clean up its public image, and explicitly denounce suspicious characters. The political benefits of doing that are clear. It is also the right and proper thing to do.


Hat tip: Dr. Andrew Bostom

44 comments:

Homophobic said...

Discrediting the discreditors. A clever move from Dr Bostom there.

Conservative Swede said...

So it's not impossible that the governing elites are sending agents provocateurs into the ranks of the Flemish Interest party, to parade around in Nazi drag and make nice with White Power sleazoids in the US.

We saw that at the SIOE 9/11 Brussels demo.
A witness tells us:

>> "The only people I see of which I think at first sight “they’re surely coming for the demo” are four or five skinheads close by, with black jackets and the Lion of Flanders badge. It looks like Vlaams Belang, but those guys speak French among themselves - which I can’t help to think weird."

MY COMMENT: Who were these guys? They were the only skinheads present, this demo didn't otherwise attract skinheads. It's on these occasions Occam's razor becomes very useful. Occam's razor tells us that the most simple hypothesis is the most probable one. Knowing the nature of skinheads, this just doesn't make sense. Flemish nationalist extremists speaking French among each other? It would require a lengthy and round-about speculative explanation to make it probable that they are Flemish nationalists. Occam's razor tells us: they are infiltrators. Indeed skinheads, but French skinheads; hired by Freddy Thielemans to put on Lion of Flanders badges and turn up at the demo (both parties being interested in denigrating the Flemish).
Occam's razor is the essence of science. It's very useful and for example tells us that Jesus existed (the most simple hypothesis).

>> "It might now be five to twelve; two or three cops speak to the skinheads nearby, the “French-speaking VB people”, and order them to stay where they are. They do so, quietly, and before one minutes they are surrounded by more than ten cops, and by even more journalists, coming at them like flies on turd. Well, television will be able to show skinheads on close-up, they’ll be happy to have this “proof” the demo was “infiltrated by far right extremists and neo-nazis”…"

MY COMMENT: The political theater at play.

>> "Journalists stayed around the spot a bit more, interviewing some people… I hope what they said, which - as far as I heard - was good, intelligent talk, will be correctly broadcasted; but I’m doubtful about it. It was hard not to laugh when one of the young hacks, from RTBF (Belgian French-speaking radio-television), said to a couple of middle aged people - in a quite patronizing tone: “But still, you’re in a demo with skinheads!”, while pointing to the still standing and surrounded by cops bunch of skinheads. Oh yeah, those poor devils did count, but not the tens of “hairyheads”, quiet family-men type of people…"

MY COMMENT: And this is how easy it is to bully decent people away from something as the SIOE 9/11 demo. You will have to answer questions about why you are demonstrating with skinheads. Easily fixed!


There's a reason why "agent provocateur" is a French expression.

Seems so.

Conservative Swede said...

In Europe there is much greater fear about neo-Nazis, for understandable reasons. Americans, if they think about them at all, tend to see them as clowns and weirdos, but the Germans see a potential SS goose-stepping into power. You can bet that the German government infiltrates their neo-Nazis.

The neo-Nazis over here are clowns and weirdos too. But Europe is seen as eternally carrying the original Nazi sin, so these clowns are taken seriously by Americans and European liberals. Once again political theater -- from two directions. Ask a Eastern European and they'll laugh at this. Sound common sense people, with their minds not poisoned by Utopian ideology, as we are in the West.


So it's a snake pit. Without knowing any specifics, I'm willing to bet that Vlaams Belang is penetrated by government agents. Whether they take the next step and act as agents provocateurs is an interesting question --- but here is a photo (scroll down) of a young woman posing in Nazi costume at a rally in Sweden* ten years ago. Is she a neo-Nazi? Sure looks like it. But how grossly stupid do you have to be to parade in full fascist drag for the cameras when your political party is trying to gain more public trust to win the next election?

James Lewis tempered intuition -- and his trust in common sense, and skepticism against hysteria -- is entirely correct again. Tina Hallgren Bengtsson (of that photo) had a quick career during the year of 1996. In the beginning of the year she was holding a seat in the city council for the Sweden Democrats in the town of Höör, Then she left SD and joined the Nazi party, and posed in Nazi drag. Two years later she left politics and never returned. Is this the image of Hitler coming back, or is it the image of a clown?

Here she is interviewed in Aftonbladet. She says:
"I wouldn't say that I was active in the National Socialist Front. I was rather just sniffing around a little."
"I've have made a fresh start now. I'm expecting a baby any day soon."

But show the picture of her to your children and say BOO! To teach them that co-operating with Ted Ekeroth is like co-operation with Adolf Hitler.

1389 said...

Concerned about neo-Nazis? Serious about it?

As I've mentioned before, there's an overt, blatant, avowed, and violent neo-Nazi performer touring the US and Canada right now!

I've gathered some more information since then, so that we can all do something about it, rather than merely continue grumbling to each other about how awful it is!

Croatian neo-Nazi rock star "Thompson" is currently touring the US and is also scheduled to perform in Canada. He is known for inciting violence following his concerts/rallies in Europe and should never have been allowed into the US.

He should be sent home immediately!

TENC: Oppose Fascist Rock Star's US Tour with the Truth (Part 1)

According to the TENC article above:

"Croatian rock star Marko Perkovic 'Thompson' has just begun a US-Canadian tour, with two concerts in New York (Nov. 2 and 3), followed by concerts in Toronto (Nov. 4, reportedly cancelled), Cleveland (Nov. 9), Chicago (Nov. 10), Los Angeles (Nov. 11), Vancouver (Nov. 16), and San Francisco (Nov. 18.) Full details are in footnote [1].

Emperor's Clothes has proven that Thompson is a self-declared Ustasha - a Croatian clerical-fascist. (Clerical-fascist ideology indoctrinates with a mixture of Nazi-type racism and Catholic religious fanaticism.) The Ustasha movement murdered over a million people from 1941-1945. The overwhelming majority were Serbs (Slavs who are Orthodox Christian, i.e., non-Catholic), but they also killed most Jews and Roma ('Gypsies') in the greater Croatia that they ruled."

Information about where to complain is at the top of the above TENC article. (The US State Department email form works only part of the time, but you can always use the address or phone number.)

Information about the concert schedule is in footnote 1 in the above article.

Also see:

Nazis: Coming soon to a concert venue near YOU!

Conservative Swede said...

Gee, an obnoxious rock star! Sorry, I have been so distracted fighting Jihadism, that I haven't payed attention to important things like this. What can I do to stop this evil rock music?

AngleofRepose said...

The thing that bugs me in all this is CJ's supreme arrogance in assuming that all the participants in the counter-Jihad conference were ignorant/unaware of the VB and their platform.

He acts as though he's leading the charge in exposing the VB, when in fact their history etc has already been discussed, over and over. His lizard choir then *swoon* over His Highness. blaaargh!

I think Mr. Lewis was dead-on-target with his article.

And if the comments to this article
are anything to go by, it shows more and more people are saying basically the same thing as those within the VB.. our people/culture/nation first.

That's how I see it anyway.

Henrik said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Henrik said...

ConservativeSwede, I think it's worth speaking out against that rock star (Thompson). He's an Ustasha revivalist and openly advocates killing of Serbs (that's racism). People at his concerts (and in Croatia he's drawn up to 60.000 people) openly wear Ustasha symbols and salute with their right arms in the air.

Got it now?

Perhaps not. Let me add that the revival of the Ustasha regime in Croatia stirred memories of Croat-Bosnian purges of Jews, Serbs etc. in WWII. The Serbs, who were the ones in Yugoslavia to stand up against the Nazis, where scared and moved to protect Serbian minorities. This was the beginning of the Yugoslavian civil wars.

Speaking up against open racism and fascism is done best when it's small, as in 'just a rock star'. I've done so, tipping off friends, and the Simon Wiesenthal Center actually managed to get one of his concerts cancelled, as it was a little too obvious that he was carrying a message of violence.

It's good that people have an eye for these things and speak up against them.

1389 said...

Conservative Swede,

I think that you and GOV have the whole scene with Vlaams Belang scoped out pretty accurately.

I certainly don't mean to imply that rock stars in general are a problem - even obnoxious ones. I was talking about one specific individual, who calls himself "Thompson." I personally am not concerned with the fact that he is a musician of sorts, nor do I even care all that much about the symbolism he uses. For me, that is not the issue.

What bothers me is that "Thompson" is screaming and yelling for people to kill Serbs and is drawing huge crowds of followers, who then go out and become destructive after the concerts/rallies. Okay, I'm Serbian-American and don't much like having somebody rile up a mob to go out and kill me. That makes me want to fight back.

I'll admit I didn't formulate my earlier comment very well. I wrote it while I was in the middle of trying to fix some server database errors and should have explained myself better.

I did have a reason why, in the context of this particular article, I chose to bring up the issue of the nasty "musician," and to ask whether people were willing to protest against him.

It's because I had already posted much the same request on LGF, and nobody paid much attention. This shows me that people on LGF, along with others, have let themselves become distracted by chasing unproven allegations and smears. You and others are correct in pointing out that those smears are being dealt out by people who have an interest in seeing our side go down in flames.

Similar blood libels - allegations of "Nazism" and the like - have been leveled against the Serbs throughout the 1990s, even up to the present. Not only were those allegations never proven, but also whatever material had been purported to be "evidence" for such allegations has been refuted soundly. Nonetheless, those false accusations gave rise to very real persecution and genocide against the Serbs.

So now, I point out somebody who undoubtedly is a genuine neo-Nazi, who makes no secret of what he wants people to do, who is being taken seriously by a disturbingly large number of people, who has a history of inciting big crowds to violent behavior, and who has been allowed to enter the US. I point out, "This is the genuine article. Put your money where your mouth is. Is anybody besides me willing to speak up about this, or are you all just full of baloney?"

Crickets chirping...

Henrik said...

1389, I mailed information about Thompson directly to Charles Johnson of LGF. Do you think he posted anything, let alone bothered to send me a reply?

He's not able to distinguish real fascists from evil figments of his own imagination :(

Alexis said...

It is amazingly easy to split any political movement when a certain portion of it is vindictive. Likewise, it is a sign of political maturity for a movement to be aware of infiltration tactics.

Think of a vindictive old woman who envelops herself within a shroud of bitterness. This old woman imagines she can pick and choose her friends. She imagines she can rely upon her sense of smell to detect who her enemies are. But she can’t. She praises flatterers and hates those who are honest. She does not want your friendship nor does she want your help. Instead, she insists you parrot her entire worldview or else she declares you to be her enemy. She decides who her enemies are and once she decides you are her enemy, there is nothing you can do about it. Protesting your innocence to her is much like a Jewish war veteran showing his Iron Cross to a Nazi. It will do no good.

The chorus at Little Green Footballs reminds me of a bitter old woman who prefers to see enemies everywhere than see friends in those who disagree with her. Her lack of humility not only blinds her to her real friends, but her vindictive spirit also blinds her from seeing enemies who pose as her friends. Remember how innuendo from the lips of Iago could convince Othello to kill the woman he so deeply loved.

Once Othello has decided you are his enemy, your cries of innocence will be as worthless as the protests of Desdemona. It was only a matter of time until Little Green Footballs would turn on you. It’s saddening to see what has happened, but it is hardly surprising given the nature of LGF’s inner circle. When one operates within a treacherous environment, one should be wary of innuendo. Although Charles Johnson’s naiveté is hardly news, it is a fault that can easily be pressed to someone’s advantage.

If there is any lesson from Othello, it is that a certain level of humility and skepticism is in order. If we know we can be fooled, we are less likely to be fooled by schemers. Those who prefer to see enemies everywhere often fail to see the enemies they really do have.

blogagog said...

This battle really pisses me off. LGF has gotten in a fight with Brussells Journal, and Gates of Vienna too, for that matter.

We are on the same side, LGF and free Europe. We can, and should, be a team. Can you make this BS go away? I tried this plea over at LGF, but to no avail :(.

Henrik said...

For anyone interested in the sleazy history of Belgium, I recommend the book written by Belien: A Throne in Brussels.

It will leave you without trust in Belgium. It's his stated purpose, and he documents it really well.

What lacks a bit is the other purpose, extrapolating this to the EU at large. I hope he'll write more about that one day.

xlbrl said...

Charles Johnsons behavior may be upsetting, but it is time to move beyond that and be instructed by it. He is telling you what he really is and not what you expected he was, and not by design I think. So take that as a gift.
As Robert Conquest said, anything not explicitly right-wing sooner or later becomes left-wing.

Henrik said...

Yes, it's been a mess with LGF. Charles has resorted to semi-fascist methods in order to sustain his position, with false charges, rotten proofs and purging anyone from LGF who happened to disagree with him.

For now, I think the proper reaction would be to delink from LFG. I don't care much that his site is big. The signal/noise ratio is horrible, and he keeps kicking out people capable of independent thought.

He's bad company for the time being, I think. Am still hoping he'll clean up his act and concentrate on real rather than imaginary foes. If he does so, I'll be back to read his site. Otherwise, there are better places to visit.

Michael said...

Hi, this must be the first time I'm posting here although I've been reading GOV for quite some time.

I am a Vlaams Belang member. No-one, not even the current VB leadership itself, has ever denied the VB's murky past. But all in all, the party has been cleaned up more than a decade ago.

LGF's accusations are grossly unfair. I'm not "pulling", but please read the following and if you got the time, also follow links in the post which refer to older posts of mine. You'll find there a good brief history of VB's past.

Vlaams Belang - unfair accusations.


Best,

Outlaw Mike

lowandslow said...

Mike wrote
"I am a Vlaams Belang member. No-one, not even the current VB leadership itself, has ever denied the VB's murky past. But all in all, the party has been cleaned up more than a decade ago."

This is the problem I have with Charles Johnsons argument. He and most of his commenter's are accustomed to getting their information solely from the internet. If they want to find out the current views of the current members of Vlaams Belang or the Sweden Democrats there's another way he could do this, talk to them. Pick up a freak'n phone and find out first hand. Instead they spend hours scouring the internet tracking down anything they can use to vilify the VB or SD.
The reason for blogs and LGF in particular popularity in the first place is because the MSM inaccuracies and agendas yet Charles Johnson has fallen into the same trap, he refuses to go directly to the source because it doesn't suit his agenda.

anti-uffe said...

"Edgar Hoover hoovered up the Ku Klux Klan during the civil rights era. He infiltrated the Klan until every other guy in white sheets was an FBI plant. But it’s easy to slip from being an undercover cop into actually provoking acts of racist violence. That’s how undercover agents might prove they are doing their jobs."

The FBI COINTELPRO programme did in fact cross into the territory of provocation, such as fabricating false documents with the intention of getting the KKK and the Black Panthers at each other's throats. I hate to bring up the name of this creep, but there is a book by Ward Churchill titled The COINTELPRO Papers (IIRC) that reproduces some of these documents and smear letters released through the Freedom of Information Act. Pretty funny stuff, these documents, a proof of a morbid sense of humour in the clean-cut FBI under Hoover.

Only the most gullible would believe that psyops are not being used today. It's a fact of life that counterjihadists can only deal with by not going into a tiff at every opportunity. Staying calm is crucial, which the current conflict amply demonstrates. So is not getting paranoid, as this surely would be one specific purpose of a black op.

IoshkaFutz said...

The ex-Prime Minister of Italy, Berlusconi's biggest ally is GianFranco Fini of Alleanza Nazionale. That Party was born from Movimento Sociale, as openly Fascist as possible/permissible in post-war Italy. But in 1977 there was a split and 29 out of 45 deputies quit the party (to join a hardline splinter group) and Movimento Sociale drifted towards middle-right respectability (allowing it to enter coalitions). I could find you tons of Roman Salutes and funky symbols in the past of Alleanza Nazionale, but they're nothing to get hung up about anymore. They put the past behind them. Fini is very popular, genuinely popular among many of the Italian Jews living in both Italy and Israel. BTW, they too, the zionists have anything but a squeaky clean past, and I would be not only surprised, but worried, if such a broad movement didn't have any blemishes.

But all said, I really wonder why Charles Johnson doesn't start a movement to divest from China. 60-70 million butchered by a man whose mummy is still on display in Beijing's main square, with the Communist Party still running the show and committing human rights abuses that would make any European nationalist look like an altar boy by comparison... and yet she is America's N° trade partner. Why do they get a free pass? What happens to the great ideals?

druu222 said...

Since the topic here remains (on this posting) the unfortunate LGF - GoV/BJ conflict, let me just say...

Don't get snitty and de-link. I told CJ on his blog (which he saw personally and answered) that he or any other blogger has the right to de-link anyone, but it's kind of lame. It comes off as petulant and not in the spirit of the blogosphere.

Now, on this particular topic of the possibility of people using Nazi (etc) garb to discredit a conservative movement, I feel I kinda said this both here and on LGF before the great 'American Thinker' blog did same. So that means I am really really smart. ;-)

Here is what I wrote on both blogs, that bears repeating here....

.....

What Charles does show is a profound unease with the European right, and one that is not unjustified. The fact is, we all know (if I may caricature for a moment) that European starry-eyed enamorment of extremes is all too familiar by now. It has been almost exclusively of the left since WWII, but, to read many of the European rights own web pages (such as the BNP, not Europe, I know, but still…), we find that they can be just as socialist, just as hostile to “evil capitalism”, just as anti-American as their Trotskyite counterparts. We find the very weird sight of neo-nazis and the like being downright sympathetic to the same Arab terror movements (overseas at least) that will happily ensconce themselves in Europe to fight for the Eurabian agenda. The only possible explanation is that they despise the Jews, who have FAR less of a footprint in Europe today, and remain physically indistinguishable from indigenous Europeans, more than anyone or anything else, including a host of people, who, far from trying to “fit-in” as so many Jews have always done, take the exact opposite track of setting themselves up as total opponents of the very culture that they live in. In essence, one wonders if many Muslims in Europe are doing exactly what Jews have, I believe, been unfairly accused of doing in the early 20th century, i.e. trying to “take over” institutions, to their own ends, etc. That some rightist groups can look over the landscape of today and STILL see Jews as the greater threat simply boggles the mind.

So given the past history, I think what Charles, and I, and those dreaded “neo-cons”… would like to see, is the parties of the Euro-right say loudly and forcefully that they are NOT about skin color, they are not about “The Jews”, and that all are welcome in their movement. They ARE about culture, they ARE about tradition, they ARE about language, they ARE demanding that citizens and immigrants have obligations, and they ARE NOT about apologizing for any of the latter, even though the people who created all that are basically White Christians (horrors!). And that Muslims are welcome in such movements, but are expected to adhere to the Judeo-Christian foundations and history of the nation which they have chosen to be a part of. If that is not acceptable to them, there are plenty of airports out there. But skin-color, and heritage, meaning “race”, is off the table for discussion, exclusion, or measurement in any way. Maybe these parties are already saying this and it is not being heard (are they?), but maybe they have an obligation to their own movement to say it repeatedly and loudly.


I’m just a bloviating Yank, so what do I know, and much of what I say here can apply to the US as well, but that’s not the issue here. I guess what is is that, if these parties of the Euro-right want to fight this battle most effectively, they probably need to be REALLY REALLY forthright about some of their failings in these matters, past and present. Charles seems to be of a mind that they are not doing so. If he is wrong, let it be said loudly and clearly, and for the sake of Western Civilization, let us get back onto the same page as soon as possible.

druu222 said...

And I would just further add, while this particular post is very interesting and relevant, my personal and oh-so-humble advice to GoV and BJ is to leave LGF alone.

They got their own thing over there, I think they're being a tad off-the-track, but that's their right. Whatever. Leave 'em alone and continue the fight.... both sides.

Just IMHO.

Vol-in-Law said...

blogagog: "We are on the same side, LGF and free Europe"

The neocons and their blogosphere including LGF have never been on the side of those who wish to preserve Europe and the West; they're false friends at most. They hate Europe and welcome its demise - just read America Alone to see how gleeful Steyn is at the prospect.

druu222 said...

OK, as a huge fan of the Prophet Mark Steyn (PBUH) and a Yank, I have to respond.

The simple reality is that that which is destroying Europe (he and I believe) can be summed up in one word: Socialism. The mulit-culti element that is just one branch of socialism (modern at least) is the heart of the topic at hand here.

The other absolute, bone-deep, marrow-deep, DNA level-deep element of socialism in general is is relentless, unceasing hostility to the capitalism that is itself pretty marrow-deep element of the US. That socialism so dear to so many in Europe has dribbled the most caustic and despicable words and actions toward the entire conservative movement of the US, toward Mr. Reagan, toward Mr. Bush, toward Christianity, etc, toward my country as whole and the fact that it exists on this planet, a daily affront to how the world “ought to be ordered, apparently.

In other words, the problem of Mr. Steyn, LGF, many conservatives, and in small part myself? These people, not all of Europe, but many many who are VERY well placed…. they despise us. They loathe us. They hate who we are, they hate what we do, they hate the very elements of liberty and faith that are most dear to us. And if I may be so bold, hatred of socialism is NOT a fundamental part of capitalism or US conservatism. It is there, but not fundamental to it’s DNA. Hatred of capitalism and by default, US conservatism, is, I think, bone-marrow deep and totally fundamental to what socialism is and has been from day one, for over a hundred years. It is, in fact, based essentially upon hatred of it’s enemies who MUST be overcome in order for its glorious vision to become reality, and fighting that enemy is a primary purpose of its being.

So, just to be clear, it is worth keeping this in mind when discussing “Americans who hate Europe”. We were founded on principles that broke with Europe no doubt, but the simple reality is, most certainly in my lifetime, that hatred has clearly come west across the Atlantic much more than east. What you refer today to is largely a direct result of that.

Vol-in-Law said...

Yes, there are Europeans who hate America - far too many - just as there are Americans who hate Europe. Both are bad (usually driven by pernicious ideologies), neither helps in defense of the West. We can stick together or hang separately.

Re Steyn, he's a very entertaining writer, and he does seem to be departing from the neocon/Bush pro-immigration orthodoxy recently. America Alone (2006) is a fun read, but it's just a rip-off of Pat Buchanan's (2002) The Death of the West (which I read subsequently), a much more erudite work. Steyn just takes Buchanan's grim demographic thesis and declares, on the basis of the flimsiest evidence*, that America is the exception to the general demographic trend of birth-dearth throughout the West.

*The USA's Euro-American population is breeding at well below replacement level, the current rate of around 1.8 children per woman is similar to the 1.6 or so rate common across north-west Europe (UK, Ireland, Scandinavia).

Dymphna said...

druu222 said...
And I would just further add, while this particular post is very interesting and relevant, my personal and oh-so-humble advice to GoV and BJ is to leave LGF alone.

They got their own thing over there, I think they're being a tad off-the-track, but that's their right. Whatever. Leave 'em alone and continue the fight.... both sides.

__________

druu222 --

That's the whole point. This postis relevant and it was done by an outsider to the conflict. It was sent to us by one of the foremost anti-Islamists in the US.

We have not de-linked LGF. That would be childish. He *has* delinked us and closed our registration there, which we'd had for several years. Without notifying us, of course.

Charles is not one of the most mature human beings I've ever encountered and these actions bear that out.

The Baron worked for months on the conference in ANtwerp and Belgium, being chronically sleep=deprived in order to pull it off.

The immediate sneering smackdown, from some commenter of LGF who calls himself Dave of Sweeden was put on the front page of the post itself.Rude and un-called for, his complaints were unsourced -- in the beginning. Once they resorted to "sources" those were questionable, to say the least.

All along, we kept Chrles and other bloggers in the loop for months before the event. He never responded, but we didn't take that as ominous. It was only when I informed him that the conference had taken place and given him a link to what the Baron had written about it AND then gone over to his site to see his immediate questioning of the whole thing that I began to have questions about the man's integrity.

As it unfolded and he began to sit right in the middle of the comments, egging people on, I realized we'd been set up.

What he doesn't realize is that he has been also, and his reputation has suffered for it.

I don't intend to post on this anymore, but I will certainly post cogent arguments by third parties that I respect. And I respect American Thinker and Andrew Bostom.

Part of "continuing the fight" is standing up to those who would defame us.

Fjordman has more education, more experience on the ground, and more credibility than LGF and its commenters put together. Yet he was banned, also.

Is is getting clear yet?

I don't like conflict but I won't run from it, either. What LGF did lacks all integrity. Such people will always have acolytes but that doesn't make them right and it doesn't make the position they've staked out moral.

LGF got sold a bill of goods and they bought it without the due diligence required of any blogger.
Whole groups of people were smeared unjustly.

Here's part of his "sources", from a wiki on SD:

Sweden Democrats (Sverigedemokraterna, SD), founded in 1988 by Leif Zeilon, is a Swedish far-right political party. The party describes itself as a nationalist movement that opposes all forms of racism. Notable observers describe the Sweden Democrats as anti-immigrant and xenophobic, including CNN,[2] the BBC,[3] The Local,[4] the Swedish Security Police,[5] the Expo Foundation,[6] the Centre for the Study of European Politics and Society[1] and the Stephen Roth Institute.[7]

Now tell me: if CNN, the BBC, the Local, the Swedish Security Police, and the Expo Foundation looked down on you, wouldn't you consider that a compliment??

The Stephen Roth Foundation reports on anti-Semitism in Sweden but utterly fails to mention that Jews in Sweden hire their own security around their synagogues bec. the police will not protect them. And it is immigrants who are beating them up, not ethnic Swedes...but..utter silence. As for Expo, it has ties to the US "Center for New Community." Google *that* one...

Here's an account of the Swedish government. No wonder SD was formed, and no wonder the MSM newspapers won't accept advertising from SD--

Sweden's Current Govt is anti-Semitic or Inept

2006 is election year in Sweden. In early April, Swedish Chancellor of Justice, Goran Lambertz, squashed an investigation into calls from the Stockholm Grand Mosque to "kill the Jews". In his opinion, such statements should be seen against the background of the conflict in the Middle East, rendering them entirely permissible.

Later the same month Minister of Justice Thomas Bodstrom declined to withdraw an entry visa to Hamas leader Salah Muhammad al-Bardawil or to have him arrested upon entry - even though Sweden is a signatory to the pan-European decision to brand Hamas a terrorist organization. Bardawil and his associates will be visiting Sweden in early May under the full protection of the Swedish authorities.

And now Cabinet Secretary Hans Dahlgren announced that Sweden has withdrawn from a European peacekeeping exercise. The explanation: "the participation of the Israeli Air Force has changed the prerequisites of the exercise."

Swedish Defense Minister Leni Bj0rklund goes further: Sweden pulled out because Israel is a state "that does not participate in international peacekeeping missions" - in other words, if you're not already in the club you have no right to try and lend a helping hand. Of course, the Defense Minister is entirely wrong - nothing unusual in Swedish diplomatic circles - because Israel sent a peacekeeping force of policemen to Fiji in conjunction with that country's elections. Perhaps accuracy is not the Defense Minister's strong suit.

In an election year when the votes of Sweden's 400,000 strong Muslim electorate easily outweigh those of the country's mere 16,000 Jews, the Swedish Social Democratic administration obviously considered it worth the half million or so kronor it has already spent on its 10-month preparations for the joint exercise to drive home its desire to attract more votes.


So LGF may have it's "own thing over there" and welcome they are to it. But when it impinges on and harms "our thing over here" I will indeed follow up on it when such a course seems relevant.

You say to "continue the fight" and so we shall. Occasionally that may mean refuting smears and sneering put-downs. Other times it may mean simply ignoring them. This is not a one-size fits all skirmish.

Henrik said...

"What Charles does show is a profound unease with the European right, and one that is not unjustified."

?

The European right is generally fine, and the more we tackle the real issues of immigration and reactionary religious zealots, the less we hear of right-wing extremists. Like here in Denmark, it practically evaporated. One voluntarily dissolved itself, the other got its leader in jail for violence against the police :)

Responsible government => no interest in extremism.

Corollary: Focusing on the extremist blockheads is a waste of time.

Henrik said...

"We have not de-linked LGF. That would be childish."

Dymphna, I disagree on this. Linking to LGF is an endorsement of the blog, which I would not give. LGF simply doesn't live up to the editorial standard at GoV, BJ or other blogs that I recommend spending time on.

I don't think delinking to LGF would be childish. I think it would be a sensible editorial decision.

1389 said...

Henrik,

It's unfortunate that LGF failed to heed your suggestion to do something about the "Thompson" neo-Nazi concert tour. LGF has enough clout that the combined efforts of his audience probably could have shut the whole thing down, if Charles had lent his support to that cause.

At least you know that you did the right thing.

If we give Charles the benefit of the doubt, he may have ignored the "Thompson" issue simply because he didn't think that it had anything to do with LGF's mission.

I have seen no evidence that this neo-Nazi performer "Thompson" ever had anything to do with the conservative parties or publications that make up the European anti-jihadist scene. Nor is "Thompson" delivering an Islamist message, but rather a perverted version of the Catholic message.

On the other hand, this noxious individual is actually in the US right now, which makes him a matter of immediate concern. We know his concert itinerary, but we don't know who else he might be meeting with or talking to, what influence he might be trying to exert, whom he might be paying off, and who knows what else. So if Charles doesn't want neo-Nazis acquiring influence in Europe, and if he's an American citizen (I assume so; I am not personally acquainted with him), shouldn't he be even more concerned about not letting them acquire influence on this side of the pond?

The mere fact that the US and Canadian governments were both careless enough to give permission to someone like "Thompson" to enter is worrisome enough right there. If they let him in, who else might they be letting in?

By the way... I quoted Lewis' comments in Censorship Update 11/6/2007, under the Censorship by Character Assassination heading.

IoshkaFutz said...

Ciao Druuu222,

Frankly I wouldn't mind seeing some culturo-racial considerations put back on the marketplace. If - for example - prison populations do not reflect the society, but there are more incarcerated Jamaicans, Romanians, Italians or what have you, all this should come out... frankly... as the truth it is... without fear of absolutes.

Right now there's a rush of Rom (gypsies) on Italy and the crime rate is soaring. Does this mean that the Roma are all criminals or that we must oppress Gypsies? Not at all. It just means that like the Albanians (and unlike Filipinos) they need to get their act together. One can still remain a starry-eyed idealist - Mafias aren't eternal - there ARE historical social causes and there are crosses to bear. In this case, they, the Roma must also carry their cross: a disproportionate number of their citizens are anti-social. They must deal with it and if they face some group hostility that does not mean that all the local people are racists. They are just reacting to statistical densities, popular perceptions...

Now instead we are told that only "youths" or "human beings" are committing crimes. Something all of us, from the St. Don Bosco types to the Hitlerites suspected all along. A big "theological" truth is being spurriously used to hide a smaller and more interesting truth, i.e. that there is a Roma problem.

Paradoxically, because of the present fear of racism, the St. Don Bosco types and the Hitlerites will be the only ones hovering closer to the small and presently more meaningful truths, the former with bleeding hearts in their hands and the latter with spleen and bile, whereas the vast middle will be either silenced or boondoggled... rendered helpless.

What I'm trying to say is that we must be guided by ideals and not blinded by them and made to march towards some impossible utopia. If we had caring communities and not the soaring ideals of togaed men who have mistaken politics with theology, that is, if culturo-racial considerations were put back on the marketplace, (where they inevitably are anyway, but merely left to stew in their own broth) I trust that we'd have a better approach to the problems.

The right-thinkers have put so much fear in the people. I live in the Roman periphery, gratefully among old-fashioned types who are not so imbued with PC. Frankly I'd be afraid of being arrested in places like modern-day America or Sweden. Arrested for Harrassment, racism and all manner of crimes. It's as if we weren't complete men anymore, but walking ideologies.

Vol-in-Law said...

Re 'Thompson', of course WW2 Ustasha worked alongside Bosniak Muslim SS to kill Serbs and other 'undesirables', and in the 1990s the Yugoslav Croats eventually allied with the Bosniak Muslim SS against the Serbs. The Neo-Nazis celebrated 9/11 just as much as did Palestinian street-dancers, both seeing it as a blow against 'the Jews'. Neo-Nazis and Islamists are both enemies of Western civilisation, just as much as they are enemies of Orthodox Christians (Serbs), or of Jews and Israelis, and often work together towards the same ends. Nazis are very comfortable with Islam, it closely parralels their own thinking.

This does mean it's important to investigate the bona fides of political parties described as 'far right' - you don't want them to do a bait & switch, and deliver the West into the hands of its real enemies. This is one thing that keeps me suspicious of the BNP, despite its efforts to rebrand as the champion of British liberty. From what I can tell, the Vlaams Belaang are a decent bunch, the French National Front are a bit iffy (though no more iffy than the French socialists - Mitterrand was a Vichy minister), and the Austrian Freedom Party and German NDP are distinctly iffy.

AngleofRepose said...

RE: Charles' latest concerning that rat with the armband...

Doesn't that rat look suspiciously like the one seen under "Contactadressen"? You can also see a flag with the Odin's cross on it circled on the lower right of that first flyer.

Who are these people and do they have anything to do with Vlaams Belang?

Henrik said...

1389: "At least you know that you did the right thing."

Yup. Tipping off Daniel Pipes was probably more useful than writing to Charles :)

Fascism irks me. I just speak up against it everywhere I see it, regardless of it being religious or not. I find it revolting. The Simon Wiesenthal Center is doing some work against the Thompson tour.

heroyalwhyness said...

Anyone hear from Fjordman? I pray he did not take CJ's heated comments to heart. Fjordman's voice needs to be heard.

Alexis said...

The Melbourne Croatia Soccer Club is inviting the band Thompson to play a concert on December 28. Here is a picture of a recent concert by Thompson in Zagreb. And interestingly, this same Melbourne Croatia Soccer Club recently held a concert of a neo-Nazi band called Final War. (Their lyrics are downright vicious.)

This looks like an interesting pattern. Whether Charles Johnson will notice it is another matter.

Henrik said...

Much background information on Thompson and Ustasha can be found here:

http://emperors-clothes.com/croatia/tour.htm

It seems their CSS is broken today. But the information is good.

Pastorius said...

Alexis said: "It is amazingly easy to split any political movement when a certain portion of it is vindictive."


I say: I don't think Charles Johnson is being vindictive.

This is where I get off the bus with my allies at GOV and Atlas Shrugs.

Charles is warning about something that is a legitimate concern. Whether that means he is correct or not is another matter.

There is certainly nothing wrong with us hashing over this subject, aided by our reason.

In fact, that's what civilized folks do. And, that is what separates us from our enemies.

I am more inclined to agree with Charles. In particular, the video of Filip DeWinter which showed off his photograph where he was posing with Jean-Marie LePen (who has already sided with the Islamists against the Jews) is damning.

I mean, what can you say about that. Jean-Marie LePen is an ally of Filip DeWinter.

I have had people tell me they would ally themselves with anyone who would help us in the fight against Islam.

Well, I, for one, would not.

My family is multiracial. When I hear someone say such a thing, I hear them beginning to throw my family under the bus.

Pastorius said...

By the way, I have had people arguing with me on this subject at IBA. One of the points that was made against my argument is that I am being purely selfish; as in, I have a multiracial family, therefore, I believe my point (against the BNP) of view is valid.

Just to be clear, no that is not the order in which things take place.

I have always believed that all people are children of God, and that, as such, we have the same rights, and ought to be accorded the same dignity. Additionally, it is clear to me that there are people of all races who are intelligent, and who are capable of, and willing to live in Western society.

I would ally myself with anyone who is intelligent, good, and capable of, and willing to live in Western society.

And, that is why my family is multiracial.

In other words, I married a dark-skinned woman because I believe in the values of Western civilization, not the other way around.

IoshkaFutz said...

Charles Johnson doesn't know the first damned thing about European politics... and basing ones judgments vis-a-vis the islamization of Europe on pictures of politicians standing with other politicians and murky pasts, shows just how vacuous he is. Do you want Snowwhite or do you want to save Europe from Islam?

Are we to believe that the Flems suddenly consider themselves the superior race or that they might not like to see a capolavoro of art, history and culture like Brugges being turned into an Islamic cesspool?

High ideals are wonnderful... so let's divest from China. What's a Filip DeWinter on his worst day years ago, now in a party that has moderated itself to go mainstream compared to the heirs of "Mausoleum Mao" producing most of the goods in American homes?

"Oh De Winter! The horrible beast! I have a snapshot of him with a bad Frenchman, the embodiment of all evil!"

"Oh all of us, boosting the economy of a country that killed 60-70 million of its own people, run by the Communist heirs of the perpetrator whose body is still on display in the main square! A country that supports North Korea reduced to cannibalism and Burma where thousands of Buddhist monks were recently slaughtered or incarcerated!"

Bad bad DeWinter, the pro-Israeli anti-semite popular among a lot of Jews (God's chosen people, a third of them in a country specially set apart for a tribe) with a revised party line that looks like the Republican Platform and hurray for Google and Yahoo who adjust their search engines to please the Chinese Govt. and pick up huge chunks of cash!

My family is mixed too, not racially, but economically and religiously. A couple are filthy rich and there's an aunt who likes to do a special form of "sacred" Calisthenics.

Alexis said...

Pastorius:

If Charles Johnson isn’t being vindictive, he is certainly a hypocrite. An accusation of racism coming from Charles Johnson is the pot calling the kettle black.

I don’t think there is any question at Gates of Vienna that the British National Party and Le Pen are unacceptable. The question is whether we should accept those who are attrite (or possibly contrite) about their racism into one’s movement.

Filip DeWinter’s photo with Le Pen is damning – to a point. How would Charles Johnson like to be held to the same standard Charles Johnson holds other people to?

Have you ever read LGF’s comments section? When you go through the archives, look for people who have been recognized for a “hat tip”. Read what they say. If “guilt by association” were legitimate, then everything said by a poster commended by Charles Johnson with a “hat tip” would be legitimately seen to be endorsed by Charles Johnson.

Has Charles Johnson ever disavowed calls to nuke Mecca? Has Charles Johnson ever disavowed calls to force Palestinians across the Jordan River? Has Charles Johnson ever disavowed comments by supporters of Meir Kahane? Has Charles Johnson ever disavowed the advocacy of torture? Granted, Charles Johnson did openly oppose and eventually ban one character called “bigel” who advocated nuking all of Europe as retaliation for the Holocaust. Yet somehow, I think taking a stand against a call from “bigel” to massacre 600 million Europeans is not the height of moral courage.

If Charles Johnson is not personally vindictive, much of LGF’s inner circle is extraordinarily vindictive. If Vlaams Belang and Sverigedemokraterna must be held responsible for the conduct of their members, then so must Little Green Footballs.

Has it ever occurred to you that Charles Johnson may be responding directly to criticism from the Council on American Islamic Relations, especially given how Little Green Footballs is in the rhetorical crosshairs of Ray Hanania? In other words, why now? Why is it only after CAIR’s press release blasting the Counterjihad Brussels 2007 conference that Little Green Footballs cut off its links to the Gates of Vienna and Brussels Journal? The simplest explanation would seem to be that Charles Johnson is caving in to pressure from CAIR in the vain hope that he can sacrifice Vlamms Belang and Sverigedemokraterna to CAIR and emerge unscathed.

I have a mixed heritage and I have little patience for racism and illusions of racial purity. I have little patience for Islamist tyranny. And that also means I have little patience for the racism at Little Green Footballs. If Vlaams Belang and Sverigedemokraterna are unacceptable as allies, then so is Charles Johnson!

If I had to choose between Jewish racists and anti-Jewish racists, I would choose neither side. I don’t necessarily agree with everything I read at the Gates of Vienna and Brussels Journal, but one can at least talk with them, disagree with them, and still see them as friends. Little Green Footballs, in contrast, is as much of an echo chamber as the Daily Kos.

You say the following.

I have had people tell me they would ally themselves with anyone who would help us in the fight against Islam.

Well, I, for one, would not.


Likewise for me. I refuse to ally myself with Charles Johnson and his online cult on Little Green Footballs. Please understand if I refuse to drink the Lizardoid Koolaid.

Dymphna said...

1389 & Henrik --

I can't remember which of you mentioned the alliance of this "music" group with some Catholic organization. When I looked in the comments (which are getting long now) I couldn't find the reference.

Could you tell me about this Catholic group and could you tell me the ciities in which these people are performing? The Cathollic dioceses of each city ought to be informed and this should be spoken out against.

If you'd give me the list, or put it here, plus some background on this Catholic group, I can certainly contact the diocesan administrations and have them come out with some kind of warning.

It should not be left to the Jews to do all the heavy-lifting.

Pastorius said...

Alexis,
The points you make about LGF and Guilt by Association are somewhat reasonable.

However, here is where I think you go off the rails.

Charles giving a hat tip to a blogger or commenter who he hardly knows (and can hardly be expected to know) is an entirely different thing than a major politician having a photo taken with another major politician, and then displaying said photo on the bookcase in his family room.

We know that Filip DeWinter is proud of his friendship with Jean-Marie LePen because we can see that he put that photo on his bookcase.

I don't have any photos of myself with Nazi politicians on my bookcase. And, if I had happened to be photographed with a prominent Nazi, I wouldn't be proud of the photograph. I might laugh at the irony of such a photograph, but I wouldn't be proud of it

Pastorius said...

Oh, and by the way, I agree with you on this; Barom and Dymphna are very fair-minded intellectuals, and they are good people and they keep a comfy place here.

:)

Alexis said...

Pastorius:

Although your points about a stray blogger make sense, try counting the hat tips. To quote the LGF FAQ, “A hat tip is Charles's way of thanking you on the front page for bringing an interesting item to his attention.” There is the occasional commenter on LGF who receives dozens of hat tips; some have probably gotten hundreds of them. The stray hat tip is one thing, but when a blog administrator gives out over one hundred hat tips to one commenter over five years, that is just as much of an endorsement as a photo of one’s self with that person placed on top of a bookcase.

Please note that I am not defending Filip DeWinter. I don’t know much about him, but I have no reason to doubt reports of his unsavory association with Mr. Le Pen. I do know that many of the remarks made by the inner circle at Little Green Footballs are quite unsavory. Given what Charles Johnson has turned Little Green Footballs into, I regard the thought of being photographed next to Charles Johnson to be equally as repellent as being photographed next to David Duke – or Jean-Marie Le Pen.

Kafir_Kelbeh said...

DYMPHNA,

Found it for you: Ustasha.

Here are the dates 1389 posted for the concert, too:

Croatian rock star Marko Perkovic 'Thompson' has just begun a US-Canadian tour, with two concerts in New York (Nov. 2 and 3), followed by concerts in Toronto (Nov. 4, reportedly cancelled), Cleveland (Nov. 9), Chicago (Nov. 10), Los Angeles (Nov. 11), Vancouver (Nov. 16), and San Francisco (Nov. 18.).