Saturday, September 24, 2005

Visualize Industrial Collapse

Think lobally -- act loopily!This afternoon I made an expedition to the main library, and when I got to Charlottesville I discovered to my chagrin that the downtown area was clogged with traffic. A big banner hanging across Market Street informed me that the Charlottesville Vegetarian Festival was celebrating a healthy lifestyle for the ninth straight year, and as I fought to find a parking place I saw that Lee Park and the surrounding streets were filled with festival-goers.

After coming out of the library with my books, curiosity drove me across Second Street to take a look at the festival. As a Pajamas Media correspondent with the interests of the blogosphere in mind, I went into deep cover (by putting my copy of Mona Charen’s Do-Gooders between two of Alexander McCall Smith’s books to make it less conspicuous) and strolled into the park to look at the booths and scope out the vegetarians. Unfortunately, I had not brought a camera to town, and thus am unable to provide you with any photographic record.

As Dymphna has often said, Charlottesville is “Berkeley East,” so the denim-and-granola crowd was out in force, with healthy-looking vegan women mixing freely with animal-rights activists, organic farmers, peace-‘n’-justice radicals, and assorted feminists, with regular SPCA-types and healthy-living promoters to leaven the mix. I walked among the booths and tables, enjoying the people, the colorful signs, and the mild September air.

Then my eye was caught by the following bumper sticker:
Visualize Industrial Collapse

I did a double-take and backtracked for a closer look: it was the table for the “Coalition Against Civilization.”

The Primitivist PrimerI had to know more, so I started looking through their literature. The woman running the table noticed my interest, and helpfully pointed out the more informative pamphlets, encouraging me by telling me that they were free.

I came away with several interesting tracts (and paid $1.50 for the bumper sticker so I could display it here).

The lengthiest of my acquisitions is a pamphlet entitled “The Primitivist Primer.” It outlines a manifesto for an anti-industrial political philosophy:
    What is anarcho-primitivism?
…At best, then, anarcho-primitivism is a convenient label used to characterize diverse individuals with a common project: the abolition of all power relations — e.g., structures of control, coercive authority, domination and exploitation — and the creation of a form of community that excludes all such relations.
O.K, so far, so good — we’re not going to coerce and dominate and exploit anybody any more. That will be nice. Of course, we also won’t coerce anyone into non-dominating non-exploiting behavior, either. Hmm…
     Anarcho-primitivism incorporates elements from various oppositional currents — ecological consciousness, survivalism, animal liberation, anarchist anti-authoritarianism, feminist critiques, Situationist ideas, zero-work theories, Luddite and technological criticism — but goes beyond opposition to single forms of power to refuse them all and pose a radical alternative.
All forms of power will be abolished! A truly Utopian plan.
    Anarcho-primitivism is an anti-systemic current: it opposes all systems, institutions, abstractions, the artificial, the synthetic, and the machine, because they all embody power relations (as well as domination and destruction of nature). Anarcho-primitivists thus oppose technology and the technological system, but not the use of tools and implements (that would be absurd!) in the sense as indicated here.
Presumably the tools and implements will all be made of stone and wood and bone, because otherwise we would have to do some destructive smelting and smithing.
    They envision a future that is “radically cooperative and communitarian, ecological and feminist, spontaneous and wild.” A primitivist society would be decentralized, egalitarian, and self-sufficient…
I can dig it. I’m ready to hang out at the all-organic non-industrial commune and truly align myself with the earth.

But there is the thorny problem — after we junk all the John Deere harvesters and grain elevators and nasty steel mills — of how to feed the five billion souls under Mother Gaia’s care. But don’t worry; the Coalition Against Civilization has taken this into consideration:
    What about population?
Anarchists have long argued that in a free world, social, economic, and psychological pressures towards excessive reproduction would be removed. There would just be too many other interesting things going on to engage people’s time! Feminist primitivists have argued that women, freed of gender constraints and the family structure, would not be defined by their reproductive capabilities as in patriarchal societies, and this would result in lowered population levels too. So population would be likely to fall, willy-nilly.
So that’s how it will work: feminist primitivists will have control over their reproductive lives. And they will do so, presumably, without birth-control pills, diaphragms, condoms, etc., because industrial technology is required to make those luxuries. One assumes that anarcho-primitivist guys will just have to do without.

I also brought home this flyer:
Species traitor exists as a forum for spreading and developing theories and practical means to bring about the destruction of civilization and defend what wilderness remains. We feel that now more than ever, there is a need for a viable alternative to the mass death culture, and hope to widen the range of information available.
This cannot be clear enough, we embrace the goal of moving beyond civilization and will not settle for reform on any level.
P.O. BOX 835
Greensburg, PA., 15601
Now we’re entering Unabomber territory: direct action, sabotage, radical destruction, etc. As a matter of fact, the Primitivist Primer lists the Unabomber’s Manifesto as recommended reading. In case you were wondering, these people really mean business.

So what do they want? Obviously, the elimination of technological society, the end of all political structures, and a return to a primitive agriculturally-based society. That’s quite an ambitious project.

How many people could the earth support under such a neo-Neolithic model? Ten million? A hundred million? Let’s be generous and say a billion. That means that four-fifths of the world’s population would have to disappear.

I don’t think herbal contraceptives and the rhythm method are going to do the job. And I think the leaders of these movements know it, even if they don’t dare say so in their pamphlets. To achieve their ideal society, to create their heaven on earth, four billion people will have to die. Who do you think those people will be? And who do you think will get to choose who goes, and who gets to stay? Somehow, I don’t think the Anarcho-primitivists and the Greens and the Gaia-worshipping feminists are going to volunteer to lay down their lives for the good of the Collective.

You’re on a bus with nine other people. Look around you: eight people have to die. Who will they be? The guy with the ponytail and the “Think Globally, Act Locally” T-shirt and his girlfriend with the flowered mumu? They don’t think they’ll be the ones to go. No, it will be you and all the other bozos on that bus.

When the time comes, when the Untelevised Revolution finally seizes the levers of power, it will be the Central Committee of the Anarcho-Green People’s Coalition that makes the decisions. The workers and bureaucrats and truck drivers and school children won’t just lie down in the streets to die. No, it will be Pol Pot all over again, only done righteously this time.

We know the drill; we’ve seen it so many times before. The Enemies of the People will be marched out of the cities and herded into camps to work for the common good. Those who can’t handle it, who can’t reconcile themselves to the new order will… Well, they’ll just have to be sacrificed.

They’ll go in single file across the organic soybean fields to the mass graves that have been so thoughtfully prepared for them.

And you can bet that the bulldozer and the pistol will be the last technological artifacts to be given up after the Green Millenium arrives.

Update: Welcome, readers from LGF and Belmont Club! Glad to have some lizardoids here.

Just a reminder, in case you didn’t see it elsewhere: I have scanned the entire pamphlet, A Primitivist Primer, so that the primary document can be available for anyone interested. The reading list is really fascinating: the Unabomber appears twice, along with Che Guevara and lots of violent anarchists.


El Jefe Maximo said...

Sane people would look dangerous lunatics like these in dungeons someplace and throw away the key, (before they can do the same to us), or dump them in the Amazon someplace or on an island without any of that nasty, industrially made camping or survival gear so they could live as one with nature. Alas, we're too (in)sane for any of that.

Baron Bodissey said...

El Tejon -- not only were they mass-produced, but the bumper sticker is a slick capitalist-production item, with a (gasp!) plastic coating.

It was amusing to see the trash from the vegetarian-food stalls: styrofoam containers, plastic forks, salt packets, etc., and all being dumped into the trash cans. The recycling bins were for plastic bottles only, so that all the Dannon Natural Spring Water bottles went in there, but everything else made the long haul out to the landfill.

Baron Bodissey said...

Mezzrow -- actually, the pamphlet lists, and also, as well as I was reluctant to send more traffic their way than necessary, so I didn't give them all links. But... know your enemy.

Did you see the burning bridge on the Coalition Against Civilization site?

You watch: these people will make common cause with the mujahideen. First they gain power, then they can fight with each other about which people have to die.

Baron Bodissey said...

Micky -- not only that, but the veggie-philes had their booths and tables set up all around the statue of General Lee that presides over the park.

Baron Bodissey said...

who, me --

The library in Charlottesville is indeed well-stocked, and you will find a variety of people in it -- students, housewives, children, winos asleep on the tables, etc.

Charlottesville is a mix of people: rednecks, working stiffs, UVa students, hippies, Goths, goat-cheese makers, Volvo-driving Kerry-voters -- you name it.

cathyf said...

A former collegue told this story about being an obnoxious teenager going through an obnoxious teenaged phase where she decided to be a vegetarian. Her dad sat her down and told her this story:

In the old days, man ate nuts and berries, and man constantly was on the move, looking for food to fill his hungry belly. Then one day, man ate meat. And on that day, he finally sat down, because for once his belly was full.

A cute story. What is somehow more appropriate is the actual history of the prehistoric human race. Up until about 10,000 years ago, man was a hunter-gatherer. The assumption always seems to be that he survived on the gathering part, while getting the occasional treat of meat when the tribe succeeded in bringing down some food. In fact, those that do mineral analysis of prehistoric bones tell us that our caveman and cavewomen and cavechildren ancestors ate a diet that was about 90% meat.

Then about 10,000 years ago we discovered how to brew beer. This was a huge improvement to our health, because alcohol is a powerful water purification chemical, and so drinking beer, and then later wine, gave us a source of water that was safe to drink. Before that the only source of safe water would have been broths.

So when we started brewing beer, then we started cultivating grain crops to make the beer. And pretty soon we invented bread, which became a staple of our diets that crowded out a lot of meat. We had to create significant property rights -- before this people owned what they carried with them, and so stealing was hard. Once we had lots of real property, we invented war as ways to seize other people's property. And quickly discovered that fighting was a way that you could subjegate others. Women and children were significantly more disadvantaged in the new order -- as hunters they were a far more equal members of the tribe, now they became property. The planting of crops destroyed animal habitat, and the crops had to be protected from the animals tromping through them, so the animals were fenced away from people's property, or they were domesticated. Meat became more valuable, and so access to meat became something that the rich had and their slaves mostly ate bread.

In other words, all of those evil things that the vegetarians are complaining about came about as the direct result of human beings adopting a vegetarian diet. :-)

cathy :-)

Baron Bodissey said...

cathy -- the ancestors of humans as far back as we can trace them ate meat. Even chimpanzees will eat meat, if they can catch it.

Eskimos, of course, exist on a diet that is almost entirely animal-related. If they had to go vegan in their environment, they would surely die.

airforcewife said...

I'm not sure about the herbal birth controls, and I know rhythym method does not work, however...

I do know for a fact that herbal emmenogogues can be VERY powerful (in interviewing the midwives that delivered my last three kids at home).

So, since I'm sure these guys are allied with the NARAL types (they always seem to be) they probably plan on making abortifaceants available to all women with an urging to use them as birth control.

al fin said...

Thank you for shining a light on these grubs who normally hide beneath rotten logs. We will all be looking out for them.

Always On Watch said...

Brain cells require fat to function. Perhaps the members of this group have lost important brain cells in their vegetarian quest. Certainly their math-computation skills have suffered damage.

ledger said...

What type of mushrooms were these people on?

hank_F_M said...


Wretchard has picked up your post. Congratulations you have given these wackos more publicity in pleasant Sunday afternoon than they could ever hope to get. Good work these are the type of things that spread their poison when no one is looking.

I hope you went to McDonalds or a similar place just to put it in the organizers face.


When I had survival training in the military they pointed out that with one or two exception any animal can be eaten if the meat looks healthy and you know what killed it. The exceptions can be eaten if you cook them.

Less than 1% of plants can be eaten, most of them require cooking. Many are poisonous.

If in doubt, eat meat.

Until organized agriculture provided a steady supply of known agricultural foodstuffs vegetarianism was a form of suicide.

Doug said...

You don't know Straight Talk when you hear it ledger!
Hey Buddy:
When you get here repost that pic you put up today, I'm sure it'll fit in just fine.

Doug said...

Always On Watch said...
Brain cells require fat to function.
I have long noted a certain dried out quality to many of these Prunes.

Doug said...

Did C4 give them permission to put his picture on the front?

Doug said...

" If they had to go vegan in their environment, they would surely die."
I was impressed by how many calories GWB burns off on his little excercycle.
Anybody know how many Lance has to consume when he's racing?

Baron Bodissey said...

Hank -- actually, after I left the festival I went to the veggie market to stock up on good apples & oatmeal!

BUT... then I went to Harris Teeter and ate lots of free samples of swiss cheese and processed meat while the lady thin-sliced my rare roast beef. Also bought a roast chicken and wine, in case you're interested...

Doug said...

cathyf said,
"The planting of crops destroyed animal habitat, and the crops had to be protected from the animals tromping through them, so the animals were fenced away from people's property, or they were domesticated"
We used to have people come down the road and lecture us about the fence around "our" Apple Orchard/Garden.
"our" is the correct term, since they convinced me that it was not in fact "ours" thus we should not have a fence.
And thus
Whirled Peas was Achieved.

Baron Bodissey said...

Also, Hank -- I heard that the Special Forces guys are trained to eat any dead animal, no matter how rotten. They just have to boil it a long enough time. It still tastes horrible, but it will sustain them.

Orion said...

Okay...Let's say that they get their wish and civilization collapses tomorrow morning.

What happens Monday afternoon?

The guys with the guns and the technology quickly take control of the guys without the guns and technology - who now become part of a new system called 'slavery'.

And thus, we reduce (the populatio of moonbats), reuse (their labor) and recycle (history).

Morons. You can't put the genie of technology back in the bottle.

"Those without swords can still die upon them."


Ettanin said...

I'm politically against all signs, bumper stickers and picketing...I just don't know how to show it.

Cybrludite said...


I prefer, "Those who beat their swords into plowshares generally end up plowing for those who didn't."

PacRim Jim said...

Industrial collapse will be a good excuse for score-settling. Keep a list.

Purple Avenger said...

Industrial collapse will be a good excuse for score-settling. Keep a list.

Indeed - they're going to have to deal with those of us who aren't quite willing yet to "take one for the team" and have prepared accordingly "just in case".

Several thousand rounds of .308, .223, and 7.62x54R can deal with a lot of murderous/crazed moonbats.

I'm hoping it never comes to that though, or if it does, they lose interest rather quickly after the first few clashes.

Scott S said...

Is this what they will teach my kids when they get to college - Anarcho-Primitivism?

Baron Bodissey said...

Rune, thanks for the great link! We'll probably post on it later.

Baron Bodissey said...

YOW! We've never had a lizard-lanche before. I'm overwhelmed with all the comments -- I'm reading everything, but I can't respond to it all. Thanks to everyone for contributing.

And thanks for the additional research. If you find any more good links on these whackjobs, send 'em in.

M. Simon said...

These folks ought to get our compassion. They are probably borderline schizos. Which makes them exceedingly sensitive to their environment.

Industrial technology for them is very noisy. Screaming noisy.

The answer of course is drugs to dampen their sensitivity.

In our infinite wisdom we have denied them their drug of choice. Pot. Thus the craziness multiplies.

Using pot to treat mental problems.

In effect we are just as stupid as they are for different reasons. The beauty of it is that we are getting what we deserve.

In a sense they are exactly correct: do not screw with mother nature.

They are also correct about thoughtless power. The powerful deny them their needs due to lack of understanding. The reaction is inevitable.

As we learn more about brain chemistry the barbarity of it all will one day seem obvious.

The same impulses were evident in the genesis of alcohol prohibition.

What we are learning from the study of mental conditions and their relationship to drugs is that there may be no such thing as rereational use.

Drug use is just self treatment for undiagnosed conditions.

The lack of diagnosis is a symptom of the weakness of medical science.

The study of the history of fibromyalgia is instructive.

It was thought that folks with this problem were opiate "addicts". Until the underlying cause was discovered.

I'd bet that the same is true of all those we designate as "addicts".

As I said. You can't fool mother nature. If you try to the results for all concerned will be unfortunate.

The prejudice against drug users is a weakness of the majority who do not need them. We blame the drugs instead of looking deeper. Of course as we get more understanding of how all this works the prohibitionists will one day be deeply ashamed of their thoughtlessness and their unChristian behavior. We are about three to five years from that day given the current rate of advance in medical research in the area.

I have been fortunate in being able to tease out the root causes from very few data points. As more data points are added it will become obvious to the meanest intelligence.

Such finding will do great harm to the Republican cause. Which worries me greatly. Which is why I tend to rant on the issue at every opportunity. A monomania of sorts.

The outlines of my thesis came to me three years ago. Since then all research I have seen only provides further confirmation.

Dennis Peron who led the Prop. 215 effort (legalizing med pot in Calif) once said all use is medical use. I thought at the time ('97 I believe) that he was being flip.

No longer.

Science vs. prejudice is always a hard sell.

Once most people get past a certain age changing belief is very difficult.

I am fortunate at 61 to still have a supple mind capable (with effort) of jetisoning false beliefs. I gave up communism/socialism in my 30s. Most folks of my cohort could not do it. Which is why you see so many aging hippies at the "peace" demos.

For most folks belief patterns are fixed by the mid 20s. Which is why it often takes several generations for new ideas to affect the social order.

goesh said...

I came in late on this one - what a doozey! These vegian primitives would rue the day such a collapse actually occured because there would still be an abundance of arms and ammunition available for the natural predatory instincts of the species. What lovely prey these vegians would be! Can't you just imagine some of the clan/tribal folks that would develop in a collapse, and can't you just imagine them going to a vegian commune to barter? HA!HA! Some folks I know would probably eat their children - spit em' and roast em' alive.

yochanan said...

industrial collapse fine example
looting in N. O. The non-looted had guns!

Solomon2 said...

I think these lefties have finally gotten in touch with their own inner child, and it's spoiled-rotten and evil: they want everyone to die who isn't under their control (who is to enforce "anarcho-primitivism" and how?), and they don't want to keep very many of those, either.

Join us and rule the world! Keep the subjects technologically deficient enough to make it happen! Death, death, death! Sounds a lot like the environmentalists who cackle with delight at Americans paying through the nose for everything, on the grounds that the fewer people the better...

Doug said...

Buck Rutt.
. Reindeer Injures Old Couple in Finland .
The buck butted the man to the ground and kicked him before turning on the woman who was talking to her son on a mobile phone, Kittila fire chief Jorma Ojala said. The son alerted rescue workers who arrived in helicopters and flew the couple to hospital.
. Was this Rudolf bin Laden, or just Arkasas Trailer Park Harem Scarem?
A researcher at the Finnish Game and Fisheries Research Institute said the attack came during the peak rutting season when up to 30 female reindeer may be on heat in the territory of one buck.
"Every year in the rutting season, buck reindeer are very possessive about their harems," said Mauri Nieminen, a reindeer expert at the institute. "If a person goes into an area between the reindeer and his females, the buck can easily turn on him or her."

"Normally, reindeer pose no danger at all," Nieminen added.

Doug said...

*Arkansas* Bill I meant, of course.

Doug said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Jrod said...

Thanks for that Baron!
Not sure if anybody is familiar with the story of Eustace Conway, but he's lived about as close to what the greenies would consider a "Utopian" life as anybody still alive today that I have read about. The book is called The Last American Man by Elizabeth Gilbert. It's a good read--to me it is an honest experiment in what is TRULY involved with getting back to nature; which is why so many idealistic and naive self-proclaimed earth firster types have left his mentorship in tears.

Evan said...

It has always irritated me that conservationists are merely a special-interest group -- and an increasingly eccentric one at that -- and yet hide behind the infuriating term "public interest." The extent to which a movement originally devoted to rolling back dirty air and water and maintaining the national parks has become increasingly hostile to human interests as humans choose to define them is disturbing.

dueler88 said...

i note that many of these fine eco-anarchists wear high-correction eyeglasses. i further note that they might, after they lose their glasses in a nature walk mishap, have trouble merely finding food to sustain their existence when the TECHNOLOGY they wish to abolish is gone.

to the anarchists: i understand your frustration - i really do. but be careful what you wish for. you might lose more than you are willing to give up - wifes, sons, daughters, friends, pets, etc.

the earth is a nasty place if you're not prepared.

Doug said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
MisAnDrope said...

"I told you, we don't 'ave a lord, we're an anarcho-[primitivist] commune! -we take it in turns to act as a sort of an executive of the day..." It's a bleed'in Monty Python skit! And if they had their way, we'd be digging muck just like 'Dennis'. :)

Bernhardt Varenius said...

Reduce the global population to a billion? That's Amateur Hour stuff. Garrett Hardin wants it reduced to 100 million:

Imagine 60 people. Hardin wants 59 of them to disappear...

Baron Bodissey said...

Bernhardt Varenius --

I know; I said I was being generous. I've read quotes (but I can't remember where) from the extreme revolutionary Green terrorists saying a worldwide human population of about 100,000 is the sustainable level.

And none of these people will say how such goals are to be accomplished, not publicly. But we can make educated guesses...

For example, I can imagine eco-terrorists doing their best to get formerly Soviet supplies of smallpox. Just an idea...

MathewK said...

All these eco-terrorists, greenies and militant vegans, who believe that we need to kill ourselves, shun technology and stop eating meat to help the environment, should lead by example, stop eating meat, move into the bush and kill themselves.

Pixy Misa said...

100,000 is too low. 100 million, on the other hand, is too high. At the time of the Roman Empire the population of the planet was probably around 150 million, and that's with a whole lot of supporting technology. Aqueducts and sewers, roads and harbours, lighthouses and libraries...

10 million, at a guess. So they want to kill 998 people out of every thousand. Lovely.

MikeZ said...

I keep telling people, vegetarianism is a curse. Vegetarian today, leads to mad anarchist tomorrow.

Eric said...

I like that the first book on the guy's reading list is "Walden". Remember, the guy who went back to nature, but had to have somebody bring him food?

Heh. The spoiled, middle class baby boomers are at it again.

Scruff said...

"One assumes that anarcho-primitivist guys will just have to do without."

Either that or the anarcho-primitivist gay guys are going to lucky a lot. LOL

Baron Bodissey said...

SaulOhio --

Ah, but then I couldn't have maintained my cover! Smile pleasantly at everyone, say thank you, pick up more literature, hope nobody notices Mona Charen...

Of course, there is also this: if I had revealed my true feelings, I might have been surrounded by an angry mob of vegans and beaten to death with cauliflowers. And the blogosphere would have been left in woeful ignorance of the truth.

OBloodyHell said...

Who was it that described life in a State of Nature as "Nasty, Brutish, and Short"?

Baron Bodissey said...

Jim -- the answer to your first question is obvious, if they were willing to be candid. You and I would stand at the head of the line bound for the all-natural organic gas chamber.

Baron Bodissey said...

/// (yph#r -- (BTW -- you need a better nic)

You're right about the cosseted environment most of these people live in. Probably quite a few of the Charlottesville ones live out in Nelson or Greene Counties where they can play out their Rousseau fantasies, have cheap property taxes, and still commute to their office jobs in C'ville.

We know who would be the first to crumple if the "primitive" conditions ever really arrived, don't we? But the Greens don't ever really expect that -- if they gain power, I'm sure they'll institute their own all-natural gulag, where the slave labor of the unenlightened will support their Green masters in their accustomed organic style.

Rabbi Ariel Sokolovsky said...


phn said...

In general the only ppl who pay attention to a-primitivists are other cranks to whom their useful as a villain. Like you!

Matt Hannah said...

You seem to be missing the point.

Numerous countries (Ethiopia and India, to name a few) have experienced famine while in the process of exporting useless items (flowers, dog food) to other countries. This is not a sustainable system.

There ARE too many people to feed, and when oil runs out, or god knows what else happens, we're going to have a big problem.

This, of course, is focusing on people alone. Nevermind the fact that it's predicted that within 100 years, 1/2 of ALL species will be extinct.

Most people in the world don't have access to the medicine you're talking about. Most people don't have access to the products they're making to be exported. They do have land they could use from themselves. And by "most people," I mean non-white, poor people.

So the question Anarcho Primitivists pose, isn't wacko. The question is: "do we wait for the system to destroy itself, and most of us, or do we take it down before things grow worse?"

And don't get me started on pointing out the hypocrisy of mass-produced pamphlets.

roboconcept said...

If you think all this is about murder, you're missing your point.

I think anarcho-primitivism has the ability to reach it's utopian potential in parallel with mainstream society, ex. the 'wildernesses' of Canada in The US. Destroying capitalist consumer cultures is the end, but the means is not forcing people into a lifestyle, but by creating a viable alternative. "Dropping out" of the system, living "off the grid" if you will, which is a perspective which even many libertarians may find appealing.

Let's hope people adopt (and are willing to defend) the alternative before the status quo of global capitalism destroys the possibility.

Ed said...

Will, have you spent any time at all in the wilderness in Canada? Without at the very least stone-age technology, survival in the Canadian wilderness is utterly impossible. With stone age (i.e. native) tech, the average total lifespan was less than 30 years - and they knew what they were doing! Do you think you could survive even one day in 40 below temperatures?

leadpb said...

Surely the anarchists know that the worst possible situation for the sake of nature and natural resources would be the dissolution of what passes for civilization these days. The most underdeveloped and technologically forlorn nations are precisely those with the most abysmal environmental conditions that accompany poor health, poverty, and crime. The societies that are most advanced provide the best hope for achieving a sustainable balance between "us" and the rest of the planet's biota-- two realms that some seem to think are separate and not interdependent. For better or worse this means increasingly large urban centers.

An obvious corollary is that only in advanced societies do people have the luxury of time and energy to think up the right problems to attack, let alone solutions for the benefit of billions of souls.

The current system-- and of course there is no getting away from systems-- is, according to a mountain of both doomsday data and hype, headed for trouble due to our ravenous exploitation of non-sustainable resources. It seems rational to acknowledge that there is a significant, if unknowable, degree of truth in these prognostications. The 'solution' may not be technological so much as in our ability to endure the effects of forces that we have little or no control over.

We have always persevered against natural or "man-made" calamities because we turn to one another, not on one another.