This interview is part of a booklet containing interviews with more or less famous people from all walks of life in Austria. It was published by Die Presse sometime in early 2009 and was never available online.
In the excerpt below, Shaker Assem is interviewed by Peter Babutzky:
- - - - - - - - -Shaker Assem, 44, was born in Cairo to a Muslim Egyptian father and a Catholic Austrian mother. Following his father’s death he moved to Austria at the age of 16. He finished high school and studied engineering at the University of Vienna, after which he taught at a technical high school. “This was my most enjoyable job,” he says of his time as a teacher. Still, he decided to move to Germany where he became a media spokesperson for Hizb-ut-Tahrir.
Every religion is in opposition to democracy
Shaker Assem is the media spokesperson for the Islamic liberation party Hizb-ut-Tahrir. This radical party of Islamists boasts 20,000 members worldwide. In this interview Assem speaks about “legitimate” suicide attacks, homosexuality being a crime, and why a woman cannot be the leader of a state.
In one of your speeches you said the the incest tragedy of Amstetten [where a father held his daughter captive in a dungeon and fathered seven children with her] would not be possible in a truly Islamic state. Why?
Extramarital sexual relations are considered a heavy crime. The rape of a family member is mind-blowing to a devout Muslim. All of this starts with the fear of God. If humans are convinced that God is constantly watching them and will be held accountable, then this is already a deterrence. Of course there are also crimes in an Islamic state, but that is why we have laws.
In your Islamic state homosexuality would also be considered a “crime” which could lead to the death penalty.
It depends on how this homosexuality is lived. But it is a crime and can be punished by the death penalty.
Your constitution states that a marriage between Muslims and non-Muslims is not permitted. Are you against love?
No, I am not. Islam permits Muslim men to marry Jewish and Christian women. I myself am the product of such a relationship. But a marriage between a Muslim and Hindu would not be possible.
Why not?
The Quran says so. It is not possible.
Do you never doubt the Quran?
No. My beliefs are rational. I approached the study of the Quran in a rational way, and the rational pieces of evidence convinced me of its accuracy.
What do you actually think is so terrible about the democratic system?
The point is not whether it so terrible or not. The secular, capitalistic world order did not lead humans out of poverty, but increased it.
Your mother is Austrian, you have been living in Austria for 28 years. What is your relationship with this country? Is this country your home?
Yes, you could say that. But even if I reject the secular rule of law I have a lot in common with Austria. I have a lot of family and friends here. I feel at home here. I do not feel like a stranger. Austria is a part of me.
But the system is your enemy, right?
Just because I do not identify with the laws here does not automatically mean that Austria is my enemy. I am convinced about another way of life, about the Islamic way of life. But there are also many non-Muslims who are not convinced about Austrian laws.
You also say that Muslims are not allowed to vote here in Austria. Why?
In Austria, Muslims can cast their votes only for secular parties – with a non-Islamic program. It is impossible for Muslims in Austria to be represented by political parties.
According to a recent study, every fifth Muslim religion teacher sees democracy as incompatible with Islam. Do you agree?
That is a mean question. Every religion is in opposition to democracy. The Austrian constitution reads as follows: “The law is made by the People.” Every religion claims that laws are made by God. The Catholic church is also undemocratic. We have to draw the line somewhere.
The Islamic Faith Community in Austria was quite embarrassed by the results of the study and initiated a reform of the curriculum for Islamic religious education. Do you feel represented by the Faith Community?
No. The Faith Community basically represents only the Islamic teachers. It has no say in anything else. Many Islamic associations do not feel represented either.
Your party, Hizb-ut-Tahrir, was banned in 2003.
We were always more popular in Germany, especially among the young people. Back then, former German minister of interior Otto Schily openly declared that he did not want our party to gain more influence.
In your caliphate non-Muslim parties would be banned. Why do you demand something from a Western country that would be prohibited in a Muslim state?
The West always talks about freedom of speech and conscience. What we did is measure Germany by its own standards. As soon as there are new ideas that are uncomfortable for the establishment, the German state rigorously cracks down on them. But Germany also does not have absolute freedom of speech. Every state protects itself from unconstitutional moves.
The official reason for the ban of your party was open Antisemitism. Are you an anti-Semite?
No. There were two flyers that were misinterpreted. It is impossible for a Muslim to be anti-Semitic because it goes against Islam. Please do not forget that Jewish prophets are also prophets for us. One must differentiate between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism. We are not against the Jewish faith but very much against Zionism.
On one of these flyers you invoke the fight against Jews by citing a sura from the Quran: “You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. The Jews are a lying and deceiving people.” Doesn’t that constitute Antisemitism?
This sura from the Quran is a defensive one. We used this flyer back in 2002 as a a reaction to the attacks by the Israeli army against Jenin. It is a call to Muslims to resist Israeli occupation. It is allowed according to international law for a state to defend itself.
Are suicide attacks legitimate?
Yes, they are legitimate. All of Palestine is a war zone where a different set of laws is in effect. As long as Israelis destroy entire Palestinian residential areas, killing thousands of women and children, Muslims have every right to defend themselves. Compared to the Israelis, the Palestinians have only very crude and primitive weapons with which to defend themselves somehow.
You are denying Israel’s right to exist.
I do not understand that; this doesn’t get into Western people’s heads. Israel is an occupying state. In Palestine there are people who were displaced from all over the world. That is a crime not only according to Islamic but also Christian principles. The Jews suffered great injustice during the Nazi era. No doubt about that. However, considering that the Austrians and and the Germans were a nation of perpetrators, their peoples need to pay the bill.
[…]
The Islamic community [i.e. ummah] is very heterogeneous. How can an Islamic caliphate be realized under these circumstances?
We want bring about a change in society through persuasion, but clearly by peaceful means. We want to submit the Islamic ideas to the people and as soon as this idea takes root, the population will call for the establishment of a caliphate.
Do you consider Iran an infidel state?
Of course. Iran is not an Islamic state. Iran considers itself a republic, which is a western concept. There is no concept of republic in Islam. Islam only knows the caliphate where a person can be voted for to become caliph.
But women are not allowed to stand for election to become caliph?
There is a saying from Mohammed that a people cannot be successful if it is led by a woman. A woman can become a judge or a civil servant, but not head of state.
[…]
It is often said that Hizb-ut-Tahrir has contacts with Al Qaeda. What is your opinion about the terror attacks in London, Madrid or New York?
We are strongly against terror attacks. There are many differences between us and Al Qaeda, especially concerning methods. The prophet worked towards an Islamic state for a long time. But for the founding of this state he opposed the use of force and did not shed a drop of blood.
There are numerous reports stating that Hizb-ut-Tahrir took part in many attempted coups in Egypt and Jordan. Why did you fail?
Much of this is urban legend. We submit our ideas to the people whether they are civilians, soldiers or officers. As soon as our ideas take root in society and the army, political change will come about naturally. This can definitely come about by peaceful means. Just like it happened with the prophet.
4 comments:
I think we should use that article as a training ground for newcomers. The exercise is to "spot the taqiyya". There's plenty of it, but then he was talking in a Western language for a Western audience!
As yokel observes, a veritable TTT™ (Taqiyya Treasure Trove).
The secular, capitalistic world order did not lead humans out of poverty, but increased it.
Whereas it is plain to even the untrained eye that Islam has propelled its various adherent nations to unparalleled heights of prosperity and technical achievement. After all:
Why go through all that effort to walk on the moon when you can just sit back worship it?
Who should bother with surgical vivisection when the bomb vest makes everything so much easier?
No need to actually create wealth when looting it requires so much less innovation or exertion.
Just because I do not identify with the laws here does not automatically mean that Austria is my enemy. I am convinced about another way of life, about the Islamic way of life. But there are also many non-Muslims who are not convinced about Austrian laws.
Thus does he carefully skirt any attempt to answer the actual question at hand about how "the system is your enemy". Suffice to say that, "Just because I do not identify with the laws here does not automatically mean that Austria is my enemy", in no way eliminates the possibility that, "automatically" or not, the secular Austrian legal system is total anathema to his pwecious widdle "Islamic way of life".
Nor does it explain Jack Squat for him to say, "But there are also many non-Muslims who are not convinced about Austrian laws", save to obscure his own refusal to provide an explicit answer regarding a very important question of allegiance to his supposedly native country.
To learn more about this phenomenon, examine a dictionary definition of the word, "parasite":
1 : a person who exploits the hospitality of the rich and earns welcome by flattery.
(Note that this is the primary definition.)
Every religion is in opposition to democracy.
A claim made all the more curious by the fact that only Islam, and no other ideology, is so universally opposed to even the faintest vestiges of democracy.
In your caliphate non-Muslim parties would be banned. Why do you demand something from a Western country that would be prohibited in a Muslim state?. [Emphasis added]
LE BINGO! The only true answer is because we in the West so stupidly allow such an idiotic thing. Call it linkage, reciprocity or what-you-will, it is long past tea to give Islam a dose of its own medicine.
(Are you an anti-Semite?)
No.
Then he is by his own admission a blasphemer and subject to summary execution by any devout Muslim. The Koran preaches anti-Semitism and the rejection of all other faiths. Muslims who deny this are guilty of blashpemy. So, where are all of the offended and outraged fundamentalists who stand ready to smite this opposer of the Qu'ran?
[crickets]
We are strongly against terror attacks.
And this balances out with his own claim that:
Yes, they [suicide attacks] are legitimate.
... exactly how?
The prophet worked towards an Islamic state for a long time. But for the founding of this state he opposed the use of force and did not shed a drop of blood.
Believe that and I have a bridge in New York to sell you.
This can definitely come about by peaceful means. Just like it happened with the prophet.
The "peaceful means" he speaks of involve the same peace as the Religion of Peace™, namely, the "peace" of the grave. There has never been any alternative for non-Islamic people when confronted by militant Islam, and remember, ISLAM IS ALWAYS MILITANT.
Where is this *true islamic state* that ever existed? Like the unicorn, no one can find it. But they are sure it happened, and can happen and be perfect again.
More of the *true muslim* true islamic state* talk. It really is a pattern, no matter moderate or radical. They all say it.
Whenever a Mohammedan opens his mouth, he lies.
" The rape of a family member is mind-blowing to a devout Muslim."
A dollar for every Mohammedan who is guilty of raping a family member, and I'll buy the worlds biggest yacht and we'll cruise the seven seas for the rest of our lives!
"My beliefs are rational"
Belief is just belief. Belief that defies science, free scientific enquiry, tolerance and civilization is not rational. Superstition is never rational. This guy is about as rational as the flying Spagetti monster.
"The secular, capitalistic world order did not lead humans out of poverty, but increased it."
Translation:
It amplified Mohammedan poverty because it prevented them from looting infidel countries, which is the only thing that ever enriched them (apart from undeserved oil-wealth)
"Austria is not my enemy..."
He, the Muselmaniac, is the enemy of Austria.
"Every religion is in opposition to democracy. . The Catholic church is also undemocratic. We have to draw the line somewhere."
We did draw the line. Now we have to draw more lines and stop the Mohammedan advances dead in their track.
"former German minister of interior Otto Schily openly declared that he did not want our party to gain more influence."
The ex-terrorist sympathizer Otto Schily educated himself about Islam. He was getting really good at it....
"It is impossible for a Muslim to be anti-Semitic because it goes against Islam. Please do not forget that Jewish prophets are also prophets for us. One must differentiate between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism. We are not against the Jewish faith but very much against Zionism."
He is full of shit. Read the Koran and the hadith and you will know that the soldiers of Allah have a genocidal mandate to wipe out the Jews. There is no distinction between Jews and Zionism. Besides, Mohammedans don't respect any Jewish prophets. They are just about to build a mosque over the grave of Ezekiel in Iraq.
"Suicide attacks are legitimate."
What's good for the goose is sauce for the gander. In that case mass expulsion and mass extermination of enemy Mohammedans is also justified.
"Israel is an occupying state. In Palestine there are people who were displaced from all over the world."
Israelis have been displaced from all over the world. The Pali Arab parasites could have been resettled 60 years ago. All countries that are occupied by Mohammedans were acquired through conquest. Why should Israel not have the right to acquire their own biblical land through conquest?
"We want bring about a change in society through persuasion, but clearly by peaceful means.."
Plain bullshit. 1400 years of Mohammedan jihad history prove the exact opposite.
"We are strongly against terror attacks. There are many differences between us and Al Qaeda, especially concerning methods. The prophet worked towards an Islamic state for a long time. But for the founding of this state he opposed the use of force and did not shed a drop of blood."
Terror is mandated in the Koran and the hadith.
Muhammad was a mass murderer who had 800 Quarayza Jews dig trenches and had them beheaded in one night. Afterwards he distributed the women and children to be raped or sold into slavery.
The guy is a lunatic, a liar and a potential suicide bomber. There are means and ways to deal with such people.
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