Wednesday, April 08, 2009

The Deadly Jive of Jiverly Diversity

Gates of Vienna is pleased to present another guest-essay by the well-known writer Takuan Seiyo.


The deadly jive of Jiverly diversity
by Takuan Seiyo


On the day when thirteen people were murdered by this ugly loser whom America had imported from Vietnam to celebrate its diversity, the handsome and lost Mayor of Binghamton was on Fox TV proclaiming, “We are going to have a vigil tomorrow to celebrate our diversity.”

This idiocy is no aberration for the city where the “progressive” vision has become flesh. Matthew Ryan’s mayoral webpage serves up the bromide cocktail right at the top:

“To excel at progressive governance based on participatory democracy, transparency, sustainable development, and innovative management. Our ideas and our actions will embody and affirm justice, equity, diversity, inclusion and fairness.”

Sentient Binghamtonites should have moved out of the city the day the oozing quintuplets of justice, equity, diversity, inclusion and fairness appeared on Mayor Ryan’s webpage. But cognizance of reality is probably not prevalent among the denizens of this Berkeley-wannabe town.

Binghamton, where on April 3, 2009 Jiverly Voong gave such grave and multiple offense to “The American Dream,” revels in the glory of diversity, anti-”racism”, peace and “social justice.” Tarik Abdelazim, Mayor Ryan’s Executive Assistant and a “progressive” Arab — oh, fondest dream fulfilled — doubles as The Community Progressive Advocate and as the erstwhile authorizer of a Muhammad-celebrating parade by an Islamic terrorist front-group.

New York Governor David Paterson weighed in with the pabulum that the center was holding classes “for those who want to become citizens of the United States of America, who wanted to be part of the American Dream, and so tragically may have had that hope thwarted today. But there still is an American dream.”

It should be a legal requirement that anyone bloviating about “The American Dream” define what it is and for whom. A corollary requirement should be that all American politicians stop talking about the desires of people who want to immigrate to America, and start talking about the desires of America with respect to prospective immigrants.

Voong’s victims had immigrated to the United States from China, Vietnam, the Philippines, Pakistan, Iraq, Haiti and Brazil. Witness names mentioned in connection with this massacre are “Alex Galkin, an immigrant from Uzbekistan” with more people from “ as far of as Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan, [and Laos] all working to become more a part of their new home.”

The beautiful strength of diversity is so diverse that the media can’t sort out the countries of origin any more. A “Filipino immigrant” [ibid.] by the obviously Israeli name of Omri Yigal is cited in some articles. Cited also are Abdelhak Ettouri, an English-illiterate Moroccan immigrant, Zhanar Tokhtabayeva, “a 30-year-old from Kazakhstan“, and Laotian immigrants at the center.

Just what is it that Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan have, not to speak of Pakistan, Iraq and Morocco, that the United States should want so badly? Is it Shia or Sunna that America prefers? Just in case, we are packing both in. Likewise, both basking in The American Dream, the Vietnamese shall assuredly lie down with the Laotian somewhere among the Irish of Boston, and lead us into a progressive future.
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Angela Leach, a representative of the American Civic Association where the massacre took place, declared “through tears”:

“Whatever drove this individual to do what he did I cannot possibly fathom. But we will come out of our grief and sadness more resolute in our mission and more dedicated than ever to help people realize the dream of American citizenship.”

Though Ms. Leach has carefully avoided using such no-no judgmental words as “evil crime,” “mass murder” etc. — an avoidance devoutly duplicated at other progressively lunatic organizations [hat tip Lawrence Auster] — perhaps we can plumb this mystery here.

By now, enough detail has emerged into public view [with additional details here and here] to construct Jiverly Voong’s CV.

— Voong a.k.a. Wong a.k.a. Linh, 41. Chinese from Vietnam. Immigrated to the United States with his family in the early 1990s.

[Why? What was in the deal for the United States?]

— Nearly 20 years later could barely speak English. Flunked out at his American Civic Association English class.

[If the U.S. is to persist with the lunacy of “we are all immigrants,” why not recognize that only Europeans and educated people from the former colonies of Great Britain can be relied upon to know, or to acquire quickly, enough English to function productively to the potential benefit of society?]

— Charged with forgery in 1992 — which must have been virtually upon arrival in the United States.

[Why would an alien with such an inauspicious start be allowed to remain in the United States?]

— Got a gun permit (according to some reports conceal-carry) soon thereafter.

[Why? Why would anyone who can’t speak the language of the land and is an obvious misfit in its culture be able to obtain a gun permit?]

— Allegations of drug use and plans to rob a bank, in the late 1990s.

— Spent 7 years driving a delivery truck for Kikka Sushi in Inglewood, California at $9 an hour while spending his off-hours chain-smoking in a fleabag motel room furnished only with a bed and a 52” TV.

[Again, what’s in the deal for the United States? The owner of Kikka Sushi, undoubtedly another Asian immigrant, made a little more money. But what Voong consumed in social services must have cost the American taxpayer far more than what he paid in taxes, if he paid taxes at all.]

— Married, divorced, disgruntled at his low pay at Kikka Sushi, left California for Binghamton. Worked at ShopVac. Upset over his low pay of $8. Jilted by girlfriend. After losing his job, “miserable,” surviving on (and complaining about) $200 per week in unemployment benefits.

[Again, what was in this deal for the American taxpayer? Leaving money aside — and taxpayer money, Americans are finally beginning to learn, does matter — what was in the deal for America’s social capital? In what way did the immigration of Jiverly Voong to America strengthen the social fabric of America? And that’s before one considers how he chose to make his final exit.]

— Family in Binghamton “kept to themselves.” Voong’s father was “well-known” through his past work at the World Relief Organization, helping recent immigrants “find a doctor and obtain food stamps.”

[You mean, America takes in immigrants who need food stamps? Or immigrants who help other immigrants to figure out how to obtain food stamps?]

And yet, within hours of Jiverly’s celebration of diversity with both a .45 and a 9mm, lunatic jive was abroad in the land. Shepard Smith said on Fox News, “Every single one of us is an immigrant.” Really? I bet the Smith family hasn’t had an immigrant in 100 years, if that.

And that was the “conservative” TV network. I hate to think what MSNBC made of Jiverly. As to NBC’s understanding, “What was clear is that Jiverly Wong was a registered gun owner.”

Of course. Vice President Biden segued right in when he said, “We’ve got to figure a way to deal with this senseless, senseless violence.”

It’s not difficult to figure out what America’s “progressive” elite will figure out. Some hints were among the thousands of comments at The Huffington Post (hat tip Michelle Malkin), blaming the Binghamton massacre on:


Different Web excursions could have led one to Jiverly’s eruption being blamed on Rush Limbaugh and “family values” Christians, or unstable “survivalists”, etc.

Not to forget Binghamton’s Police Chief Joseph Zikuski who pointed out on NBC Television that people “degraded and disrespected” Jiverly over his poor English skills. It’s the white folks, folks. If only the right-wingers could be shamed into accepting glorious rainbow diversity in a panoply of beautiful languages. [Full disclosure: I am a by-the-bootstraps American immigrant and I learned English from scratch as my then-fourth language.]

The tragic explanation of Jiverly’s evil rampage, overwhelming in its empirical precedent, has been in plain view for decades. Third World immigrants come to America not for its Shakespeare’s tongue or WASP Constitution and founding ideas of freedom expressed in rights and linked responsibilities. They come for the fraudulent “American Dream,” a dream that both the Right and the Left have bleached of all its cultural and ethnic denotations or even connotations. It’s all about opening a Laundromat, mailing to the old country a photo next to a newly acquired Mercedes, sending the son to the old country to find a wife and increasingly, having the son fight or spy for the old country against the new one. Or it’s about cramming for years to get an advanced degree and get rich that way.

This is not immigration as it was 120 years ago, but colonization. And when the streets turn out not be paved in gold, and golden-haired maidens will not be pawed, the fraudulent Dream crashes. The toxic jive of petty capitalist exploiters, opium-sucking “progressives” and toothsome politicians claims its victims. And the victims claim their victims.

There is hardly an area where a unique freedom conferred by the American Constitution is more linked to responsibility than the 2nd Amendment. The popular privilege of bearing arms is embedded in the culture of Northern Europe, whence the Founding Fathers came. It’s in the firearms tradition of the Swiss, the middle class yeomanry tradition of the Dutch, Flemings, Germans and Britons.

And so is the tradition of restraint. If England listened to Enoch Powell, to this day its hottest citizens’ disputes would be settled with fists and barstools, and its bobbies would never even have heard of MP5s and body armor.

East and South Asians come to the United States without any of these traditions. Firearms ownership is so severely proscribed there that wealthy Japanese, Korean and Chinese tourists come to the United States on organized “shooting vacations,” to fulfill a macho dream. Arabs have the opposite tradition: firearms are widely available and used wantonly and indiscriminately. Neither cultural baggage is suitable for the United States, a country that was designed on Northern European principles, for people with a relatively low predisposition to combustibility.

Add a crumbled American Dream to deep alienation, pour firearms into the mixture, and ignite. The ignition can be anything, from a jab for one’s funny English accent to a jilt from a fancied female.

Let’s zoom out from Jiverly, to see the larger picture.

On April 7, 2009 the Christian utopian penchant for bringing profoundly alien people to America and helping them unto death, literally, bloomed in Temecula, California. At a retreat run by the Kkottongnae Brothers and Sisters of Jesus, a Korean-American man tentatively identified as John Chong, 69, attacked with a revolver two Korean couples, killing one woman and injuring three persons before he was subdued.

Kkottongnae [“flower village” in Korean] is a Roman Catholic organization dedicated to serving “the poor and homeless.” And Korean, apparently. At the time of posting this, police investigators were “having trouble piecing together exactly what transpired because many victims speak only Korean.”

On April 6, 2009, Yavuz Berke, 31, a Turkish immigrant to Canada who changed his name to Adam Dylan Leon, stole a Cessna 172 at an Ontario airport and flew it “erratically” for six hours into the United States, until NORAD fighter jets intercepted him and forced him to land. Upon arrest, Berke stated that he intended to commit “suicide by fighter-jet pilot,” i.e. a form of exit with a bigger bang than the one chosen by those who exit in “suicide-by-cop.”

A few days before the Binghamton massacre, 42-year-old Devan Kalathat murdered his two children and three other relatives and critically wounded his wife, before killing himself in Santa Clara, California. Even the headlines for this crime are a mute testimony to the craziness not of Kalathat but of the nation that has imported him. “Suspect Devan Kalathat, Victims Akhil Dev, Negha Dev, Ashok Appu Poothemkandi, Suchitra Sivaraman, Ahana Ashok.”. Some reports spent inches of space spelling all that phonetically, “day-VAHN’ KAH’-luh-THOT,” “ ah-SHOHK’ ah-POO’ POO’-thum-KHAN’-dee,” etc.

It appears that Kalathat, an engineer from the Indian state of Kerala with a good job at Yahoo and a fancy townhouse, got upset with his wife and brother-in-law. The latter and his family had come from Tamil Nadu, apparently on an H-1B visa, and were staying with the Kalathats while settling in Silicon Valley. Kalathat voiced his upset with two .45 pistols he’d bought recently.

Also in Silicon Valley, on November 14, 2008, Jing Hua Wu, a Chinese immigrant and highly skilled engineer, gunned down three executives at his former employer SiPort, a few hours after being laid off.

On July 30, 2008, a “quiet, hard-working immigrant” from China, Vince Weiguang Li, “occasionally frustrated with not being able to communicate or understand,” stabbed the man sitting next to him on a Greyhound bus in Canada several dozen times, severed the man’s head, hacked at the body, and then ate parts of the victim’s body.

On July 23, 2007, in Atlanta, 52-year-old Abdulaziz Ibrahim, a “retired” [at 52?] factory worker who didn’t speak much English, murdered his son and two daughters-in-law, and wounded other relatives before turning the gun on himself. “So sweet he wouldn’t hurt anybody,” according to the testimony of a neighbor. The extended Ibrahim family had immigrated ten years earlier from Ethiopia.

On April 17, 2007, Cho Seung-Hui, 23, a permanent U.S. resident from South Korea and a shy, unattractive and inarticulate English major (of all things!) at Virginia Tech, made his mark too. Cho expressed his love of America’s diversity by using both a .22 Walther and a 9mm Glock to murder 32 people and wound 25. Predictably for this country gone soft-in-the-head, the official report issued by the State of Virginia criticized Virginia Tech administrators for their failure to “help” the murderer prior to his eruption, but made no mention of the opium fumes of beautiful diversity that had brought Cho Seung-Hui into the country and onto the Virginia tech campus.

On September 13, 2006, Kimveer Gill,25, son of Indian immigrants, had his moment of significance. A skinny, awkward loser, Gill walked into Montreal’s Dawson College, dressed in black and carrying three firearms. Gill shot one woman to death and injured 19 people, six of them critically. He then shot himself in the head. Gill had left extensive posts on the Internet, e.g. “Work sucks… School sucks… I hate this world, I hate the people in it, I hate God.” But perhaps the most telling was a plaint that he’d not been out on a date for a month.

On November 21, 2004, Chai Soua Vang, a Hmong immigrant from Laos living in Wisconsin, trespassed onto private land while hunting deer. The landowners asked him to leave, allegedly using insulting language. Walking away, Vang turned with his rifle and opened fire, killing six men and wounding two. Vang had been arrested previously for threatening his wife with a gun.

A sane society, founded and still run largely by people of European stock, does not open its doors to Hmong or other time-travelers from vastly different cultures, in order to then dump them onto the Germans of Wisconsin.

On May 9, 2003, 62-year-old Biswanath Halder, an immigrant from India, snapped on the campus of Case Western University, where he’d been an MBA student. Halder had moved to the United States in 1969, “hoping to get rich.”

Supremely ugly [photo], lonely and a serial loser, what set Halder off was a “flame bait” on his website impugning his looks and personal hygiene.

And so Biswanath Halder came to school that day dressed in military fatigues, wearing a helmet and a bulletproof west, with two pistols and much ammunition. He’d lost his eyeglasses, couldn’t find the man he was looking for, but still managed to kill a student, Norman Wallace, wounded a professor and a student, and engaged in a 7-hour firefight with the police before he was subdued.

On October 21, 2002, Huan Yun Xiang, a Chinese student at Australia’s Monash University, jumped on his classroom desk, screaming, “You never understand me,” and opened fire at his fellow students in an econometrics class. Armed with five handguns, Xiang killed two students and seriously wounded another five, before he was subdued. Xiang was an ugly, repulsive man with limited English skills. For the crimes of a foreigner from a country where citizens have no access to either guns or liberty, the citizens of Victoria, Australia, were punished with a further tightening of Australia’s already super restrictive gun laws.

On January 16, 2002, Peter Odighizuwa, a Nigerian immigrant, arrived at the Appalachian School of Law, from which he had recently flunked out. Odighizuwa then produced a pistol, shot and killed the Law School’s dean, a professor, and a student. He wounded three other people. Two fellow law students, pointing their own guns, apprehended Odighizuwa upon his exit from the building. Odighizuwa was an outlier at the school, with an abrasive personality and a language problem. Written accounts report his assertions that the FBI, the CIA, and the Law School’s faculty members had it in for him. VDare.com commented at the time, “The white West welcomes losers and misfits like Mr. Odighizuwa into its midst, pretends they’ve assimilated, boasts about the ‘diversity’ we’re creating and ignores any and every indication that they don’t belong here and that their presence endangers others.”

On December 14, 1992, Wayne Lo, then 18 years old, shot six people, killing two, at Simon’s Rock Bard College in Massachusetts. Lo, a gifted son of caring and cultured parents, was born in Taiwan and attended several schools in America. According to court testimony, Lo didn’t fit socially at the liberal college, felt like an outsider, and talked sometimes about wanting to kill large numbers of people.

On November 1, 1991, Gang Lu, a Beijing native and PhD student in physics at the University of Iowa, punished his faculty advisors for having failed to recommend his doctoral dissertation for an academic honor. Wielding two handguns, Lu shot and killed five faculty professors and graduate students, paralyzed another, and then committed suicide. He had written five letters explaining his “reasons” for the planned mass murder. Among the quotes: “It is believed that there exists no justice for little people in this world, extraordinary action has to be taken to preserve this world as a better place to live.”

On December 6, 1989, Marc Lepine, the worst mass murderer in Canada’s history, killed 14 women and wounded 10 women and four men at a Montreal’s Polytechnique engineering university. Lepine was born Gamil Gharbi, son of an Algerian Muslim immigrant.

Dormant sociopathy that erupts in mass murder is not solely an Asian or African immigrants’ syndrome. There have been mass killers with names like, recently, Kevin Garner, Michael McLendon, and Richard Poplawski, who take revenge for the slings and arrows of their misfortunes on such humans, often their own families, who are within reach.

There is no racial or immigration status separator when it comes to mass killers who take out their own children or mow down complete strangers. The issue is why America has to import categories of foreigners whose proneness to the conditions that produce deep estrangement, unhappiness and paranoia, combined with their ethnically-encoded combustibility, are a correlative predictor of their potential for ultraviolent eruption.

Brenda Walker coined the term “Immigrant Mass Murder Syndrome”. But I have not even touched here on the rich annals of murderous sprees by Muslim immigrants whether jihadi or just plain 7th century tribal, or the many thousands of criminal Latinos, legal and illegal, who rape, murder or flatten with their cars while DUI.

Nor are we covering here refugees from deeply damaged societies like Somalia’s or Ethiopia’s, who are brought to the United States already damaged psychologically, and erupt with weapons other than firearms. Not to mention that statistics are not available because of the MSM “see-no-non-white-evil” syndrome and the government’s (both Fed and State) determination to keep the lying Kumbaya façade over the crumbling edifice that the government itself has built.

The Jiverly syndrome is all about the good immigrants, the ones who have not come to the U.S. with criminal intentions, worked hard, were gainfully employed, and in many cases possessed good brains and university degrees. This is the “Good Immigrant” Mass Murder Syndrome.

If Jiverly Voong had stayed in Vietnam, he’d probably never have gotten to make even $8 per hour, or to own a car, a small armory, to have the disposable time or income to spend his weekends at the shooting range or gym. He would never even have dreamt of a $200-per-week safety net extended to him by the Vietnamese state, let alone complain if he got one. But he’d have remained among his own people, whose language he spoke and whose manners he could read, as they could his.

He’d have retained his sense of belonging, and his acceptance of his place in the social hierarchy. He’d have had his tribal and kin affinity networks, instead of the TV networks on his 52” TV set, alone in a crappy sheetrock box somewhere in the Los Angeles concrete pampas. And he’d most likely have borne his small fate with resignation, instead of lashing out at the country and the people who had given him all the things Vietnam would never have given him.

It’s a deadly jive that seduces people like Jiverly Voong to immigrate to the United States and exposes Americans to the resulting dangers.


©2009 Takuan Seiyo All Rights Reserved

56 comments:

Thalassopolites said...
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latté island said...
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Takuan Seiyo said...

Jihadism light is unfortunately prevalent among some Christians too. In my experience, I’ve found them mostly in the Orthodox corner, but perhaps it’s not uniform. There is little difference between the above spokesman for the Living God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and a mullah in Isfahan. Both have a direct telephone line to God. That way our solutions will not come...

Graham Dawson (Archonix) said...

The difference is that other christians would disagree with him and, rather than someone blowing themselves up in a street. there'd be a lively debate as we tried to work out whether or not scripture supported his stance, or whether it was a moral stance in the first place that required a re-interpretation of scripture.

Graham Dawson (Archonix) said...

hm, ignore that full stop after "street", it's meant to be a comma...

Thalassopolites said...
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Fellow Peacekeeper said...
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Fellow Peacekeeper said...

Quite another catch for GoV, to have Takuan guest posting here.

Interesting, how likely are persons coming from an extremely constrained Asian culture to become amoks when put in a liberal western setting? And how much does the lack of access to guns play a role in moderating the results of such outbursts in their homelands? A question for the esteemed author perhaps (I imagine they would be none too keen to advertise it to the outside world) how common are cases of amok in Japan?

El said...

this is a gripping and entertaining read, but would be stronger if it presented evidence that the immigrant groups in question were indeed disproportionately responsible for this type of violence. claims bout the criminality of blacks can be robustly defended by reference to official crime statistics, whether in the US, the UK, or anywhere else. they are irrefutable, the only difference of opinion lying in their interpretation. but i am less convinced that the chinese in america are unusually inclined to gun people down. aren't the crime rates for asian-americans in general on the low side?

leadpb said...

Seiyo's essay, it seems to me, is about questioning the wisdom of not only permitting but encouraging strangers from strange lands to settle in America. By strange I mean culturally ill-suited and unassimilable candidates, not strictly using the criterion of country of origin. The disease of obsessive multiculturalism has effectively torn down our previous natural defenses of discretion and appraisal with regard to prospective immigrants.

I don't believe this essay tries to make the case that Asians are more prone to these violent outrages than any other segment of the population. The fact that Seiyo can cite a litany of recent horrific cases for a demographic that is *less prone* to violence generally (though this may be changing?) should make us think a lot harder about all immigrants and our stake in hosting their futures-- with lesser priority given to their own aspirations.

Charles Martel said...

Finally! A place where we can respond to your essays.

Thank you again for your enormous contribution to the fight.

I'm reading a book by Hans-Hermann Hoppe, Democracy the God that Failed, which leads me to believe that the problems faced by the West are far more fundamental and intrinsic than I've ever considered. Perhaps no Constitutional Republic, no matter how cleverly designed, can resist the Siren's Song of the demos. No amount of restrictions or chains can constrain the popular will once intoxicated with its own importance.

Zenster said...

leadpb: Seiyo's essay, it seems to me, is about questioning the wisdom of not only permitting but encouraging strangers from strange lands to settle in America. By strange I mean culturally ill-suited and unassimilable candidates, not strictly using the criterion of country of origin.

Knowing what I do from previous exchanges with this article's author, leadpb seems to be on the money. The gist involved centers on how probable it is that unlettered immigrants from backward or unindustrialized cultures will be able to make constructive contributions to modern Western nations.

I don't believe this essay tries to make the case that Asians are more prone to these violent outrages than any other segment of the population.

Again, correct. I would venture that Takuan Seiyo might more likely argue that the principal difference is not Asian or Middle East versus Western but that of High Context versus Low Context Western culture.

The exaggerated role of humiliation that afflicts both Asian and Middle Eastern cultures is a direct result of their High Context milieus. Societal approbation and individual conformality play far more significant roles than they necessarily do in the West.

The classic "inscrutable Oriental" and notoriously thin-skinned Muslim are both direct byproducts of High Context culture's perceived alien nature with respect to Low Context denizens. It is precisely such detrimental attributes that often make these individuals less prone to swift or easy assimilation. Concomitantly, this lack of facility with respect to rapid integration severely constrains the potential for substantial contribution by such newcomers and just as often results in drastically negative outcomes with regard to harmonious interaction or productivity.

As a final footnote, I would also wager that tightly knit Asian communities here in America tend to under-report law-breaking and that predisposition contributes to a false profile of lower crime rates within those ethnic groups. Again, this most likely stems from residual High Context traits that inhibit self-embarassment and admission of loss or failure.

All in all, another typically entertaining and insightful read by Mr. Seiyo.

The Poster Formerly Known as Gordon said...

This is the kind of racist, know-nothing claptrap that gives your blog a bad name, Baron. This one is so bad it's beneath even fisking!

The Poster Formerly Known as Gordon said...

Well, actually here's a basic fisk:

http://www.ncvaonline.org/archive/census_socioeconomic_2000.shtml

Vietnamese Americans made huge strides between 1990 and 2000, and there's no reason to doubt that they have made huge strides since then too.

Another example to counter the know-nothingism of Seiyo. But being a know-nothing means that you can revel in your ignorance and, when presented with contrary data, plug your ears and shout "la, la, la, I can't hear you!"

DP111 said...

Thalassopolites

Great post.

The real problem we have is the growing Muslim population in the West, and consequently, the demands for sharia.

re crime and criminality: East Asians, if they are non-Muslims, really do not figure in the crime stats in the UK, and in anycase are not motivated to subvert, and then destroy our civilisation and replace it with sharia.

Zenster said...

Nodrog: But being a know-nothing means that you can revel in your ignorance and, when presented with contrary data, plug your ears and shout "la, la, la, I can't hear you!"

Spoken with the voice of authority and long experience, I'm sure.

jeppo said...

Gee Gordon, that's wonderful that Vietnamese Americans have made such huge strides. Hopefully they will all soon return to their home country (GDP per capita $3,100) where their huge strides are actually needed, rather than remain in horrible, racist America (GDP per capita $44,000), where they're not needed at all. Or, dare I say, wanted.

According to Peter Brimelow's 1995 book "Alien Nation", Vietnamese Americans, along with their SE Asian homies from Cambodia and Laos, are the largest per capita recipients of welfare by far. If they all left, think about all those tax dollars you leftists could waste on something else. Like brand new Harleys for this years Dykes on Bikes Parade for example. Unless of course you're some kind of homophobe...

islam o' phobe said...

I'd recommend to GoV's commenters that they get a hold of a copy of the book A Rainbow of Gangs: Street Cultures in the Mega-City by James Diego Vigil from their nearest library and read, in particular, Chapter 7: Vietnamese in Southern California.

Even if the crime figures among Asian-Americans are proportionately insignificant compared to whites (which has not yet been established), objective anthropologists know from their field studies that Asian-American gangs, especially Vietnamese-American gangs, constitute a specific organised menace to California and the greater United States in general.

Thalassopolites said...

Well, it is easily concluded that the point Takuan Seiyo is trying to make is as follows: “Due to the cultural differences, even Americans of East Asian origin are more likely to commit violent crimes in the host society”. The problem with his essay is that it lacks logic and hard facts. Let us reason: We have a demographic segment which occupies a certain proportion in the overall population expressed by the figure “x”, and on the other hand, the proportion of confirmable violent crimes done by this specific demographic segment in comparison to the overall corpus of committed violent offenses is represented by the figure “y”. So, in a statistically neutral situation, it is expected: x=y. However, in order the author’s point to be valid, it must be: x < y. That’s simply not the case in the real life! The statistics I could find (Anthony Walsh: “Race and Crime”, 2004), were stating that the percentage of Asians in the general population in the United States was 4.1% (i.e. x=4.1), while the percentage of Asians arrested for violent crime was 1.3% (y=1.3), so it is exactly the opposite of what Takuan Seiyo is claiming! The reality is that when Asian Americans (as I am aware, in the US “Asian American” can also mean a Pacific Islander, Filipino, Indonesian or Bangladeshi Muslim, whose crime rate could be expected to be rather higher than that of East Asians proper – Chinese, Japanese and Korean Americans, and that makes the author’s case even more incredulous) are in question, the real issue is – why are their crime rates so low? This would be a jolly good topic for informed debate. (In fact, the only type of crime in which Asian Americans are slightly overrepresented is gambling related crime, but that sounds rather “innocent”) Please, Mr. Takuan Seiyo, give us your hard numbers, your statistics, your facts! Maybe you’ve discovered that Asians, though generally underrepresented in violent crime as such, are still overrepresented in some “specific”, “exotic” kind of violent crime. But, for God’s sake, give as some statistical evidence. Using anecdotal evidence makes only bad fiction and slightly better conspiracy theory. It is as if I started claiming that smoking not only isn’t detrimental to somebody’s health, but that it actually promotes longevity, basing this claim on such irrefutable facts as – “my grandfather, who used to smoke like a Turk, and managed to see his 98-th birthday” or “the uncle of the father in law of my second cousin, who as a chain smoker lived over 93 years”. Even if these two examples were absolutely true, that wouldn’t change a bit the hard evidence saying that the life expectancy of smokers is substantially lower than that of non-smokers, they are more prone to cancer and heart diseases etc…
To finish, as far as the confirmable evidence goes, if seating on a park bench with an unfamiliar East Asian in the US, the likelihood of getting killed by his hands is four time lower than if that person was non-Asian American. Sorry, that’s the statistical reality!

Jozephus said...

Dear Jeppo, would you be kind to pass your advice also to Takuan Seiyo, who has immigrated to Japan. Why do you think he is so needed or wanted in Japan? Maybe his real homeland of post-Soviet Poland (which has a rather lower GDP per capita than his new adopted country) is waiting to receive him with open arms… Oh, I see, you think he should be an exception to his own rule…

Marian - CZ said...

Interesting discussion.

In Czechia, there is a lot of Vietnamese people. At least 50 thousand, which is 0.5% of the population.

Most of the visible people are the small businessmen. Their criminality is significant, but of the kind that does not break your skull; namely, tax evasion and smuggling of counterfeit goods (pseudo-Adidas etc.). Especially the tax evasion can be thought of as a proof of integration, as native Czech businessmen engage in it very frequently as well (the unclear and bureaucratic tax code certainly does not help).

Then, you have Vietnamese marijuana producers and dealers. Still no big problem, at least for people I know.

Then, there are small, but potentially powerful gangs which engage in rocketeering and production of false papers. They usually operate within the community, so an average Czech does not know; but they constitute a significant problem nevertheless.

Finally, the unemployed workers from factories that hired a lot of unskilled work in 2008 and then, when the crisis hit, kicked them out. Somehow, the corporations do not seem willing to pay for the return tickets, and the Czech government has to return these people at the taxpayer's expense, because more than a few of them steal to survive. The plan is to force corporations to create funds for return of imported workforce before actually importing any workforce in the future.

And the community is not so tightly knit. The long-settled Vietnamese businesspeople could not care less about their blue-collar expats fired from factories.

Bushido said...

To Zenster:

Please, upon what are you basing the claim that the sort of violent crime we are discussing here is under-reported among East Asians? Rather a naïve way of explaining away reality. Come on, give us your source, the surveys, the numbers… (In fact, the only kind of violent offense that it is likely to go under-reported in any community is domestic violence, but we aren’t talking about that. For God’s sake, how can you under-report murder!?) Of course, you can always decide to ignore the facts, saying – well, it’s only a statistic. But, everything we are talking about here is “only a statistic”. The Muslim overrepresentation in rape, violent crime and terrorism across Europe is also only “a statistic”. The postmodern parlance of “High Context and Low Context culture” cannot come as replacement to measurable facts. Both you and Seiyo lack the body, the smoking gun, i. e. – the hard numerical evidence which proves Asian Americans are more likely to commit a violent crime than the general population. As some of the previous commentators have noted, the main social and political problem we are facing is the import of aggressive population intent on conquest and replacing our political system with sharia. We do not object to other people simply because they have different facial features, have different family values or eat different kinds of food. We are objecting to aggression and sedition! I am yet to hear about a Japanese terrorist cell in California intended to replace the US constitution with Bushido. Can you deny that the Amish and the Hasidic Jews are even more “different” from us than most of Asian Americans, can you deny that the Amish and the Hasidic Jews have even stranger appearance, can you deny that these two communities have even more tightly knit communal structures, can you deny that their worldview is even harder to understand…? However, we don’t object to the presence among us of either the Amish or the Hasidic Jews. And why is that? – It is because they are not aggressive and aren’t intended on destroying our political system or societal security, regardless of how different they are. (And how do we know they aren’t aggressive or violent towards the wider society? –Well, the measurable statistical evidence tells us so!) Thus, we are returning to the main problem about this essay. I know Zen Buddhists and Postmodernists have this thing against rationality and factual reality. But we are Westerners! We thrive on numbers, logical abstractions, hard facts, statistics and rational debate!

islam o' phobe said...

As I've already said I don't know what the statistics are for Asian-American crime. However we do know of Jiverly Wong, who spoke poor English shot up an immigration centre, and Vicent Li, the Hmong cannibal who cut up his victims with a large knife on a Canadian Greyhound bus and ate their flesh and other parts of their body.

In my opinion the Hmong are savages and should not be allowed into Western countries. They should go back to living in huts. Even if Asian-Americans are generally mild in behaviour, it would be a good idea to discriminate against this particular group (and also Chinese Muslim Uighurs for obvious reasons) in terms of immigration quotas.

jeppo said...

Dear Jozephus, I don't think that Pickled Radish (Takuan Seiyo) is needed in Japan. They seem to be doing very well indeed with a population that is 98.5% ethnic Japanese, with most of the rest being from similar Asian populations, like Koreans, Chinese and Filipinos. As to whether he's wanted there, I couldn't say. But I would think that ANY nation would be happy to have such an incisive thinker and brilliant writer as a resident.

Frankly, I think it would be great if Mr Seiyo returned to his native Poland and ran for president, or king, or emperor, or whatever. He represents exactly the type of leadership we need in the West, if the West is to survive as a distinctly European Christian First World civilization. In fact, I would be willing to trade ALL our non-European immigrants just to get him back anywhere in the West he chooses, and hopefully in a position of political leadership. Like how the Israelis routinely exchange thousands of Palestinian terrorists for a single captured IDF soldier, or even the remains of an IDF soldier, that's the value I would personally bestow on Mr Seiyo. I'd trade tens of millions of non-Western colonizers for him. Deal, or no deal?

islam o' phobe said...

To paraphrase Bob Dylan: "There are many here Hmong us who feel that life is but a joke."

Takuan Seiyo said...

I thank the kind commenters. Nevertheless, this discussion was hijacked by a fundamentalist troll who followed me from The Brussels Journal, where he’d succeeded in the closing of the comments section. His comments here have been about me, though he has zero knowledge of me, or about things I have written elsewhere, or about what I have not written. Either of these is a misuse of commenting privileges and a waste of time.

There is not a word anywhere in the above article about the higher tendency of Asian Americans to criminality, thus the discussion the troll initiated is entirely off track. I have written elsewhere about the high criminal ratios of American blacks and Latino immigrants, with the proper statistics as well as citing individual cases (e.g. the Knoxville and Wichita murders.) The piece here is about the vast cultural difference of Asian immigrants that tends to produce alienation and misfitting, about the fraudulent lure of “The American Dream,” and how these intersect to produce mass murderers like Jiverly Voong. Such murderers are a separate class and ought to be recognized as such, even though they are not numerous.

As to Japan, Zen, my relationship to both etc. the discussion was again engendered by the troll, based on his imagination. I consider it immodest to write about myself, but would like to comment in matters that have implications for other readers. I do live in Japan, not as an emigrant but as an expat political refugee from America. My book based on my (so far unsuccessful) attempts to resettle in the U.S. is ¾ complete, and I hope to have it published early next year.

Why one can wage the fight staying put, and another has to move away in order to continue the fight, is a question not so much of character but of the individual’s circumstances. It’s unwise to judge the individual without knowing the circumstances. But even for those who consider emigration, I would counsel against moving to the Far East, except if their circumstances call for it specifically.

Zenster said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Dymphna said...

@Thalassopolites
PLEASE READ THE RULES POSTED IN THE COMMENT WINDOW INSTRUCTIONS.

YOU GOT THE PART ABOUT BEING TEMPERATE, AND I THANK YOU.

HOWEVER, YOU OVERLOOKED THIS ONE:

Please limit each comment to about 500 words; if you need more, leave a link to your own blog.

Your comment that begins:Well, it is easily concluded that... is 511 words. That's close enough for government work so I'll let it stand.

However, the one that begins I am sorry if I used some personally insulting remarks... is 957 words long.

That is not a comment, it is an ESSAY and while it may be a fine essay, it belongs elsewhere.

Any comment that is almost a thousand words becomes logorrhea and ends in bloviation.

I follow the comments section as my health and energy permit. So sometimes I miss the violations of this rule. But when I am well enough to peruse them, I delete overly long comments.

You can ask Zenster and Afonso, who have had their good ideas excised because they didn't break their comments up into 500-words-or-less "chapters".

The trick is to use your limit and then begin a new comment. That way you won't risk being deleted.

I will leave your 511 words, but the 957 essay has to go. You are welcome to come back and repost in 500 word segments.

_____

Zenster, you know the rules. The 665 word comment is simply too long. I suggest that you break it up and re-post or propose a longer essay that you could guest post at GoV. It could be framed as a dialogue, perhaps?

Dymphna the Deadly Enforcer

Nicholas said...

(I began writing the following response to a poster at Gates of Vienna who goes by the handle, “Thalassopolites,” at 1:50 p.m. By the time I was ready to post it (2:50 p.m.), I learned that Tak Seiyo had already addressed this individual, whom he identified as a troll following him from blog to blog. I have left my post unchanged.)

Well, Thalassopolites’ rhetorical razzle-dazzle was quite entertaining for a bit, but when he seeks to confuse and misdirect the reader, I must say, “Halt!”

Thalassopolites consistently uses the term “Asian Americans,” in speaking about people who are most certainly not Asian Americans. As far as I can see, every Asian killer Tak Seiyo cited was an immigrant, not an American, not even a naturalized one.

In his earlier remaining post, Thalassopolites argues against Zen Buddhism and for Western music. If anything, that would be a cultural argument against importing Asians. But in a later post, he attacks any argument against importing Asians.

Is Thalassopolites two different people, posting under the same name? Is he a one-man contradiction machine who seeks to hide his irrationality through rhetorical bombast? Rather, I believe that he simply despises Takuan Seiyo, and will engage in any sophistry necessary to take cheap shots against Tak, in order to score momentary debating points against him. Since Thalassopolites’ cheap shots have mutually incompatible consequences, he must carefully separate them….

Continued here.

Nicholas Stix

Dymphna said...

@Thalassopolites

This is just a stylistic suggestion: use paragraphs!

Breaking essays up into paragraphs makes your writing more accessible. One huge lump of words is simply too difficult to parse.

Also, frequenters of blogs (and users of the internet in general) tend to have short attention spans. Thus when they see your long screed, many (though not all) will simply scroll past it to something easier to read.

Too bad I had to take Zenster's comment down because he would be a good example of what I'm saying:

1. He keeps his paragraphs short,

2. he uses bullet points,

3.he takes advantage of HTML to differentiate between himself and his interlocutor, and

4. he follows the protocol re links.

All of these "tricks" make for easier access to others' ideas.

Please consider using them.

Zenster said...

I shall politely suggest that Bushido, like a few other similar practitioners, is engaging in bad-faith forensics and is effectively encouraged to do so when a rebuttal of his baseless accusations is excised.

Dymphna said...

Nodrog:

The Left overuses their favorite rhetorical device far too often. It's called the "Shut Up" style of debate.

Someone else posted this earlier and the Baron showed it to me:

Shut Up

The Left pushes the Fairness Doctrine to shut up conservative radio; the Supreme Court is considering whether anyone is entitled to publish or sell a book about a political candidate if it violates the McCain Feingold travesty...based on the case brought against those who made a documentary ciritical of Hillary.

So the covering of ears and refusal to listen is not a VRWC tactic, even if McCain is partially responsible for it, and George Bush took the easy way out by signing the law because he was so sure the Court would find it unconstitutional.

When was the last time a leftie speaker was assaulted on a college campus? Why do conservative speakers have to engage security people in order to speak?

You may not like the post, but your comment does not align with my own experience.

Zenster's reply to you was spot on.

OTOH, I sincerely like it when you show up. Especially when you don't just drop unpleasant and leave. So, once again, thanks for visiting.

Dymphna said...

Zenster said...
I shall politely suggest that Bushido, like a few other similar practitioners, is engaging in bad-faith forensics and is effectively encouraged to do so when a rebuttal of his baseless accusations is excised.

I have no argument re your argument, Zenster -- just its length.

Please consider breaking your comment in half and re-posting both pieces in two separate comments.

Thalassopolites said...

To Takuan Seiyo

Paranoia! In my life I've never posted anything at the "Brussels Journal". True, I've read several of your posts there and for the most part I admired your lucidity and analytical depth. My criticsm of this post was due to what I saw an unjust (even on moments distasteful) fixation on East Asians (and it seems I have a personal reason to like them), while obscuring the real and urgent issues of our own "(contra)cultural revolution" and the Sharia infiltration. Maybe I was wrong to criticise this essay so hastily and all may have been due to misunderstanding - of your motifs and intentions. So, I'll releave you of my bothersome presence.

Zenster said...

Bushido: To Zenster:

Please, upon what are you basing the claim that the sort of violent crime we are discussing here is under-reported among East Asians?


On facts.

Rather a naïve way of explaining away reality. Come on, give us your source, the surveys, the numbers… (In fact, the only kind of violent offense that it is likely to go under-reported in any community is domestic violence, but we aren’t talking about that. For God’s sake, how can you under-report murder!?)

First off, I made no such claim that any immigrant group is willing to “under-report murder”. That is your own ridiculous hyperbolic strawman argument and you can feel free to retract it at any time.

Secondly, what you are asking is an attempt to prove a negative, which is always a difficult task at best.

However, it is reasonable to suspect a strong correlation between corruption in an immigrant’s native country and their tendency to under-report crime when it occurs, be it there or here in America.

A quick glance at Transparency International’s global Corruption Perceptions Index for 2008 shows that Asia, and Southeast Asia in particular, continues to suffer from endemic corruption.

Furthermore, in a 1998 study published by the Department of Justice, titled "Immigrant Populations as Victims: Toward a Multicultural Criminal Justice System", there are among its findings are how:

The study addressed a previously unexamined question—whether immigrant victims have a more difficult time than other victims in dealing with the police and the courts because of differences in
language, expectations, and treatment by officials. The consensus among officials who responded to the national survey and among leaders of six ethnic
communities whom researchers interviewed for this study is that many recent immigrants do indeed fail to report crimes.

More than half (56 percent) of the respondents stated that the problem of underreporting
is not limited to undocumented immigrants. The survey also asked whether underreporting is more common among particular ethnic groups. Officials’ responses indicated that Asians (53 percent) and Latinos (42 percent) were the groups most likely to underreport, although these groups may have been named most frequently because the respondents are most familiar with them.
[emphasis added]

To Be Continued

Zenster said...

Bushido: The postmodern parlance of “High
Context and Low Context culture” cannot come as replacement to measurable facts.


Nowhere do I attempt to replace statistical evidence with my observations about High and Low Context Cultures. I am simply using a rather well-recognized perceptual tool to correlate certain kinds of conduct with given ethnic backgrounds and those correlations are particularly strong in this case.. If you argue otherwise, go ahead and provide fact-based evidence to the contrary.

Bushido: Both you and Seiyo lack the body, the smoking gun, i.. e. — the hard numerical evidence which proves Asian Americans are more likely to commit a violent crime than the general population.

Please feel free to provide a linked cite to exactly where I state that “Asian Americans are more likely to commit a violent crime than the general population”.

If you are unable to do so, please feel free to retract your baseless accusation in writing.

If you follow my previous links, it is rather obvious that immigrants from the MME (Muslim Middle East) and Southeast Asia come from some of the most corrupt regions on earth. Only Africa has a higher density of conglomerate corruption. Curiously enough, the criminal proclivity of many African immigrants seems to be rather patent as well.

Out of some 180 countries profiled by Transparency International, Southeast Asia enjoys a rather dismal overall ranking, as follows:

Thailand — #80

Vietnam — #121

Laos — #151

Cambodia — #166

Burma (Myanmar) — #178

For the purposes of relative scaling, communist China and Mexico rank as #72 while the United States of America is #18 with Denmark, New Zealand and Sweden respectively being the least financially corrupt nations in the global community.

I invite you to present your own facts and figures that demonstrate how immigrants, especially those from Southeast Asia, the MME and Mexico, are either nominally average or less prone to under-report crime.

Bushido said...

@ Zenster

Thank you on your thorough attempt to answer my question. However, I think I made a mistake by failing to define clearly what I meant as “Asian”. In the context of my post, I had in mind what I often choose to call – “The Confucian Commonwealth”, namely: Grater China (PRC, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore), Japan, Korea (and to a certain degree even Vietnam). Of course, I am aware that contemporary South East Asia in terms of governance, social cohesion and security may resemble more Latin America (well, the Philippines from a cultural viewpoint is a Latin American archipelago). You have put it well, it is difficult to prove a negative occurrence, and therefore we are stuck with the official US data which unambiguously states that American residents of Asian origin are less likely to commit a crime than the general population. Of course, yours is a valid concern whether a background from a more corrupt society means a tendency to under-report crime, and I cannot deny this. However, the sort (!) of crime graphically described in the Seiyo’s essay, which spurred the whole debate, is almost exclusively - serial murder! Well, I believe the onus of proof is on you demonstrate how serial killing could be under-reported. He didn’t give as examples occurrences like e.g. – domestic violence, street muggings and youth gang beatings, types of crime that by their very nature are more likely to go under-reported. So, all we are talking about is serial murder. It’s still nice that you have raised the point about possible under-reporting of Asian generated crime in the USA from another aspect. I’ve heard that organized crime in Asian ethnic context (like the Japanese Yakuza) tends to keep their violence and murky dealings strictly within their own closed circle, unlike, for example, Hispanic mafia which is a real scourge to the wider society by its gratuitous use of senseless violence. Maybe, this behavior trait also contributes to the law profile of crime in Asian communities…

Bushido said...

@ Zenster

I would like to say also something on the index of financial corruption you’ve provided in your last post. Well, having Sweden at the top of the list of least corrupt nations, gives honesty a bad name. Really, it seams we’ve got here a positive link between lower corruption levels and the likelihood to adhere to PC tyranny, suicidal ideology and cultural impotence. And this is not intended to be a joke. I remember how Fjordman in one of his essays tried to explain why Italians in contrast to other Europeans are less prone to dance on the PC tunes served by the official ideology. It is simply because they are so corrupt! Namely, the Italians traditionally distrusted their state, they always thought that the state is there to cheat them, so they didn’t feel any remorse if they also tried to cheat it. Therefore, Italians are traditionally inclined to rely more on their families and personal network of connections and friends rather than on state institutions. They are always cynical and distrustful towards the rhetoric coming either from their own ideological Acropolis or from Brussels. On the bad side, that leads to the Sicilian Mafia and trains that are always late, but on the good side – it means no PC, no cultural death wish and red blooded life with no ideological Super Ego. Of course, Sweden must always be perfect…

Zenster said...

Bushido: Thank you on your thorough attempt to answer my question.

You are very welcome.

Of course, I am aware that contemporary South East Asia in terms of governance, social cohesion and security may resemble more Latin America (well, the Philippines from a cultural viewpoint is a Latin American archipelago).

An interesting and cogent observation.

Well, I believe the onus of proof is on you demonstrate how serial killing could be under-reported.

I hope that you understand how you are saddling me with a task more deservedly directed at Takuan Seiyo. Nonetheless, I will give you what I consider to be an excellent example of under-reported serial murder, just not the one you were probably hoping for.

There is a ongoing spree of serial killing happening in America that is entirely under-reported. It is committed by Muslims and falls under the category of SJS (Sudden Jihad Syndrome). This is where seeminly well-adjusted Muslims (an oxymoron if ever there was one), suddenly are set off by some relatively innocuous comment or event and abruptly decide to begin mowing down infidels like so much tall grass.

Federal, state and municipal authorities have all gone to absurd pains in making sure that this persistent phenomenon goes both under-reported and covered up with an almost pathological fervor.

Maybe, this behavior trait also contributes to the law profile of crime in Asian communities…

It most certainly does. I encourage you to investigate the ultra-violent home invasion-style of robberies largely invented by Vietnamese gangs in Southern California.

Bushido: I would like to say also something on the index of financial corruption you’ve provided in your last post. Well, having Sweden at the top of the list of least corrupt nations, gives honesty a bad name.

Tut tut, and you were doing so well.

Read my writing carefully, would you please?

For the purposes of relative scaling, communist China and Mexico rank as #72 while the United States of America is #18 with Denmark, New Zealand and Sweden respectively being the least financially corrupt nations in the global community. [emphasis added]

That qualifier is there for the specific reason that I, too, choked on portraying Sweden as being free from corruption when it has been perverted and subverted right down to its very core by transnational progressive globalist one-world government multiculturalists.

Really, it seams we’ve got here a positive link between lower corruption levels and the likelihood to adhere to PC tyranny, suicidal ideology and cultural impotence.

Close but no cigar. I would venture that the real link lies in how free and open socities can allow for the emergence of such lunatic factions yet without themselves being specifically to blame for their creation.

In reality, "Politically Correct tyranny" was midwifed by communist Russia while "suicidal ideology" and "cultural impotence" are the direct result of decades of demoralization by participating communists in American academia, media and other public organizations. Again, these bodies were all set in motion long ago by Gramscian anti-Western and anti-Christian elements.

Such murderous concoctions are utterly alien to true American culture and the infection of our once healthy nation with this moral filth required some of the most insidious social engineering imaginable. The vast bulk of this intellectual sewage, including Islamic terrorism, can be traced directly back to the communist Soviet Union.

Decades from now, the world will still be agape in wonder that Cold War era Soviet political criminals were not hunted down like the World War II Nazis and subjected to capital punishment for the large-scale evil they wrought so gleefully upon an unsuspecting world.

Zenster said...

Drat! Here's a working link to the connection between Soviet communism and Islamic terrorism.

Wayne said...

Just like to comment on a few of the points Mr Taki made:

Third World immigrants come to America not for its Shakespeare’s tongue or WASP Constitution and founding ideas of freedom expressed in rights and linked responsibilities.

And these things were at the forefront of the minds of 19th and early 20th century Europeans fleeing, poverty, faming, war, and revolution were?

Arabs have the opposite tradition: firearms are widely available and used wantonly and indiscriminately.

Really - you have some statistics to back this up (apart from of course politically or religiously motivated violence which is a separate matter).

For the crimes of a foreigner from a country where citizens have no access to either guns or liberty, the citizens of Victoria, Australia, were punished with a further tightening of Australia’s already super restrictive gun laws.

The greatest tightening of Australian gun laws of course, happened in the wake of the Port Arthur Massacre - where a bleached blond nutcase by the name of Martin Bryant cold-bloodedly gunned down 35 people. There have also been several mass shootings over the years in Australia - almost all carried out by white folk. Australias worse serial killer by the way, Ivan Milat, a son of Croatian migrants.

Wayne said...

I invite you to present your own facts and figures that demonstrate how immigrants, especially those from Southeast Asia, the MME and Mexico, are either nominally average or less prone to under-report crime.

Zenster: perhaps you could ask the same for people from a clutch of East European countries which score similarly to Mexico, and also of white immigrants from countries which score decidedly worse than both China or Mexico - countries like Russia (143), Ukraine (118), and Belarus (150).

Zenster said...

Wayne: Really - you have some statistics to back this up (apart from of course politically or religiously motivated violence which is a separate matter).

Hot diggity dog, a Zombie Thread™!

Are you really prepared to assert that it is possible to segregate "politically or religiously motivated violence" from the vast majority of criminal activity that takes place in the MME (Muslim Middle East)? Moreover, is there even any distinction to be made between "politically or religiously motivated violence" and ordinary pedestrian criminal activity in general?

Muslims, in their native element, seem so prone to the most abject forms of corruption, graft, bribery, extortion, blackmail and larceny, be it petty or grand in scale, that it would be a monumental task to sort out which are religiously motivated versus political in nature.

This is especially the case in light of how there is no difference between political and religious objectives in Islam, as they are one in the same.

If it is not quite clear by now, the ubiquitous role that firearms play in Islamic society is a direct reflection of its bilious doctrine and the hateful tripe volcano otherwise known as the Qu'ran.

Attempting to distinguish between ordinary criminal activity and "politically or religiously motivated violence" is much akin to differentiating between ordinary Islamic religious expression and terrorism: Namely, there is no difference.

Zenster said...

Wayne: Zenster: perhaps you could ask the same for people from a clutch of East European countries which score similarly to Mexico, and also of white immigrants from countries which score decidedly worse than both China or Mexico - countries like Russia (143), Ukraine (118), and Belarus (150).

Feel free to make a less obtuse point. Specific assertions and identifiable positions fall into this particular category.

Wayne said...

Zenster: Thanks for that bit of thickheaded rhetoric.

You miss the point Mr Seiyo was making ie. Arabs are not to be trusted around firearms because of their inherent lawlessness (he used the adjectives 'wanton' and 'indiscriminate').

Religiously or politically motivated terrorism is generally the opposite of wanton and indiscriminate (notwithstanding a sometimes indifferent attitude regarding collateral damage) and is mostly well planned with a definite political purpose in mind.

As we all know many of the 9/11 hijackers hailed from Saudi Arabia (a country with a very low crime rate) - vile terrorists to be sure, but hardly mindless when deciding upon their target. But these terrorists, to themselves at least, were fighting a just cause and would likely have been completely respectable and decent human beings, to even the likes of you and I, outside the context of their struggle for what they see as the liberation of their oppressed Palestinian brethren from Jewish imperialism.

As for the 'hateful tripe' contained in the Qu'ran, many would contend it comes nowhere near to the anti-human, anti-Christian filth spewed by the Talmud.

http://tinyurl.com/m3m38o

Zenster said...

Wayne: Religiously or politically motivated terrorism is generally the opposite of wanton and indiscriminate (notwithstanding a sometimes indifferent attitude regarding collateral damage) and is mostly well planned with a definite political purpose in mind.

Your overestimation of Islamic motivations is pretty much monumental.

As we all know many of the 9/11 hijackers hailed from Saudi Arabia (a country with a very low crime rate)...

A "very low crime rate" only if you do not count the ongoing and general crime against humanity that is Saudi Arabia.

Zenster said...

Wayne: As for the 'hateful tripe' contained in the Qu'ran, many would contend it comes nowhere near to the anti-human, anti-Christian filth spewed by the Talmud.

I suppose the only difference lies in how Jews gave up that bit of scripture so long ago that they don't bother to fly fully loaded passenger jet airliners into occupied skyscrapers. Nor did Jews dance in the streets and hand out candy after the 9-11 atrocity.

Wayne said...

I suppose the only difference lies in how Jews gave up that bit of scripture so long ago that they don't bother to fly fully loaded passenger jet airliners into occupied skyscrapers.

Agreed they forgo the suicide part of things, instead they just carpet bomb innocent civilians from a great height in order to 'defend' their state, which was founded on terrorism itself, and which has been sustained by supported all along by the United States. Hence the 9/11 attacks.

Wayne said...

It most certainly does. I encourage you to investigate the ultra-violent home invasion-style of robberies largely invented by Vietnamese gangs in Southern California.

Zenster - stop clutching at straws. It is well established that East Asians have crime rates ranging from about a quarter to one third that of whites. Even if you were to make allowances for purported underreporting, the rate would at most not exceed that of whites.

Certainly when it comes to violent crime, rape, incest, paedophilia Asians basically are right off the radar screen.

The last one, paedophilia, seems to be a white specialty. As is taking a hammer to the heads of your own kids when your stocks go down in value.

Zenster said...

Wayne: ... instead they [the Israelis] just carpet bomb innocent civilians from a great height in order to 'defend' their state ...

Okay, it's time to indulge in a little fact checking. Please provide an actual cite for when Israel has ever carpet bombed either Gaza or the West Bank.

Educated speculation is always welcome but blatant distortions are not. So, cough up an actual link to documentation showing that Israel has used carpet bombing against the richly deserving Palestinians or else retract your statement.

Wayne said...

Please provide an actual cite for when Israel has ever carpet bombed either Gaza or the West Bank.

OK Zenster: how about 'massacred' Palestinians, or 'blew to bits' or 'bombed the shit out of?' You get the drift.

Back to the article of this thread, obviously Mr Seiyo, in spite of his florid style, is sadly lacking in the logic department:

It’s a deadly jive that seduces people like Jiverly Voong to immigrate to the United States and exposes Americans to the resulting dangers.

If calculations were carried out to find out how many murders, rapes, burglaries, stabbings, deaths from drink driving, were done per say 1000 immigrants from various ethnic groups, it would soon be apparent that one way to improve public safety in the US would be to import even more North East Asians. It would also boost the average American IQ.

If whites want a whites only homeland, they can always ship themselves back to Europe. How about that - all whites return to Europe in exchange for returning the Americas and Australasia back to the original rightful owners of those places?

islam o' phobe said...

Wayne,

"How about that - all whites return to Europe in exchange for returning the Americas and Australasia back to the original rightful owners of those places?"

You do realise that if you wanted to return America and Australia to exclusive control under their aboringinal peoples you'd also have to ship all those wonderful North East Asians back home as well? Is two near-empty continents what you actually want or did you have something else in mind?

Wayne said...

islam o' phobe:

You miss the point. I'm not demanding that whites leave North America. I'm just saying it is hypocritical on the part of whites to bitch and moan about having to be around non-whites, especially in the Americas and Australasia - which were non-white places to begin with.

ignifer said...

I am left to wonder if some of the posters actually read the article or if they merely lacked the brainpower to understand it. The writer isn't indicting Asians as much as he is using current examples of unassimilated immigrants from cultures wildly disparate from Western/American culture to illustrate a point. That point being WHAT is the value to America in importing the lower classes from whatever source into our body politic?
Asia is a large continent- Asians from the Muslim areas have a verifiable propensity to firearms fueled violence; it is endemic in the culture. Asians from the Far East are more subdued, but when they go off they truly GO OFF.
Asian from all geographic locations, along with most of the rest of the 2nd and 3rd worlds share several traits: a resort to violence at offense to 'honor', and a general disdain of the West in general. Along with this is a sense that THEIR CULTURE is preferable to all others- despite any evidence of this- is also inherent. They come HERE- not so much to assimilate and participate in the great American dream of mom, baseball and apple pie-as much as to 'get theirs' , whether that be thru business of at the teat of the State. And if you believe they don't find US suckers for PROVIDING THEM that nanny-state teat then I have a bridge to sell you.

ignifer said...

typo:
>>whether that be thru business of at the teat of the State.<<
please read that as "thru business OR at the teat of the State."
i will live with the rest of my grammatical mistakes in this post...

heatsketch said...

Since this has been posted:

On July 15 2011, Nkosi Thandiwe, an immigrant from somewhere in Africa, ambushed a woman in a parking garage, shot her dead, and then shot and injured two more women. His crime was borne of resentment against whites and was censored by the media.

On March 2 2011, Arid Uka, an Albanian Moslem in Germany, shot and killed two American GIs while chanting 'Allahu Akbar'

On November 8 2010, Cambodian immigrant Kouei Saetern shot his 3 children to death.

On September 24 2010, a mentally ill Cambodian Grandmother named Saroeun Phan killed 3 members of her family and shot a fourth.

On September 23 2010, Akouch Kashoual, an immigrant from the Soudan, brought a handgun to the warehouse where he worked and shot three people before killing himself. He was described by his coworkers as shy and a loner.

In a sort of reverse culture shock, Lubomir Harman of Slovakia took out a long festering rage against local Gypsies with a rifle, killing 7 and injuring another 14.

The day before in America, on August 29 2010, Brian Diez shot 6 people at an ex-girlfriends house, killing 5 of them.

On July 12 2010, Robert Reza took a gun to his workplace and shot 6 people, 4 of whom died.

Gerardo Regalado ended a family dispute at a restaurant on June 7 2010 with a handgun, killing 3 and wounding 4.

Joseph Mercado walked through a housing complex on May 6 2010 with an AK-37, killing 3 and wounding 1.

April 19 2010, Abdo Ibssa Mohammad, an Ethiopian immigrant and apparent schizophrenic, killed a staff member and shot two others at a hospital he believed was planting microchips in his head.

Ibrahim Shkupolli, an Albanian immigrant to Finland, shot and killed 5 people in a mall in a spat over a woman (perhaps an honour killing) on new years eve, 2009.

Nidal Hasan killed 13 soldiers at Fort Hood on November 5 2009, after years of suspicious behavior that went unreported.

Jaime Paredes brought a 7.62 rifle to a dental office and shot four people on July 1 2009.

Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad killed an army recruiter and wounded another on June 1 2009.

and on and on it will go. Unmentioned here is black and hispanic gang violence and attacks on police (which have spiked in the past year). One could also google "flash mob"