Wednesday, December 12, 2007

Suggested Corrections for Charles Johnson

The article below was posted this morning on the CVF blog in a slightly different format.

NOTE: The information presented here was part of a team effort by members of the Center for Vigilant Freedom. I owe a great debt to all the people in Europe, Canada, and the USA who helped compile the data. Without all the man-hours they put into it, the Corrections Project would not have been possible.



Update: A reader in Finland sends the following corrections:

Hello Baron,

I have small corrections for your newest article (Suggested Corrections for Charles Johnson). You have listed interesting parties, and along them are Finnish Persusuomalainen and Suomen Kristillisdemokraatit.

As a Finn I would like to correct two things:

1) There is a misspelling: it’s Perussuomalaiset (True Finns), not Persusuomalainen. Here is their site and some info in English. This party definitely belongs to “intersting parties” list. By the way, Jussi Halla-aho (Inter Arma) was candidate for this party in last parlamentary election in this year.
2) Suomen Kristillisdemokraatit (Christian Democrats) definitely doesn’t belong to this list.

I’ve corrected the misspelling. Suomen Kristillisdemokraatit remains on the list, but is struck through.


Further updates 12/14/07: By mistake, Volkspartij voor Vrijheid en Democratie was listed for the Netherlands. It has been corrected to Partij voor de Vrijheid.

Also, for the United Kingdom, Christian People’s Alliance has been added.


Further updates 12/15/07: Additional updates are being posted only at the CVF version of this post. Additions and modifications to the list of interesting anti-jihad political parties have been made, including parties in Austria and Australia.

From now on refer to that post for details.


Call me Ishmael.

For it does feel as if we’ve been trapped on that whaling ship with Ahab, in obsessive pursuit of the Great White Whale of European right-wing political parties…

Over the last two months, in more than twenty posts, the U.S. blog Little Green Footballs (LGF), run by Charles Johnson, has insistently criticized any U.S. and European individuals or groups who dare to meet with selected European right-wing parties, particularly parties who oppose the Islamization of Europe with actual policy initiatives. His objections are based on the past associations of some members of those parties with yet other groups, such as Front National in France, or during World War II with now long-deceased Nazi collaborators. He has consistently discounted as “obfuscations” and “spin” any counter-evidence published here or on various other blogs — Gates of Vienna, Atlas Shrugs, Conservative Swede, Tundra Tabloids, etc. — including historical or cultural context or specific refutations. He has never published any corrections of refuted allegations.

As background, this debate was started by LGF’s objections to the participation by individuals from two European political parties — Vlaams Belang and the Sweden Democrats — at a two-day conference of individuals working against Islamization of western institutions. Counterjihad Brussels 2007 was attended by over seventy individuals from fourteen European countries, including five participants from the United States. Review the many Counterjihad Brussels 2007 presentations for a detailed view of the Islamization of Europe.

A number of online journalists have expressed concern over Johnson’s seemingly erratic and contentious behavior, including its self-destructive aspects. On a more positive note, we think the LGF case study presents an opportunity to improve online journalistic standards through analysis of LGF’s rapidly degenerating journalistic practice.

The case study problem presented by LGF’s posts is a surprising dumbing-down of quality, to where Little Green Footballs — at least on this topic — is little more than a serial photonovella of alleged comic book “crypto-Nazis.” (LGF’s reporting on other issues is still good, which is why this apparent monomaniacal Captain Ahab-type pursuit of European right-wing political parties has objective analysts wondering what’s going on over there.)

The problem presented by LGF’s journalistic sources is more serious, and was described by political analyst James Lewis at The American Thinker:

The conservative blogosphere is not immune to disinformation ops. If the American Left can’t knock out conservative talk radio with the Fairness Doctrine, they have enough billionaires who are happy to sponsor dirty tricks to split the conservative movement. “Black PR” is quite likely to happen during the coming election. Keep an eye out for it.

It is therefore at least possible that Charles Johnson has been taken in by disinformation. It’s easy to fall for suspicious information on the web.

Or as Richard Miniter from Pajamas Media wrote, before Johnson’s management relationship with that organization was severed:

I suspect that Charles Johnson has not met any of the Vlaams Belang leadership or even interviewed them. He is simply following a left-wing link. He does not offer evidence, based not on his own experience, reporting or careful deliberation, but simply links to web sites of virulent critics- virtually all of whom have not interviewed party leaders or spent any time understanding the nuances of Belgian politics. The blind leading the blind.

[…]

Why take the word of political rivals’ at face value—without contacting the accused yourself? Do you we turn to right-wing ideologues for objective coverage of Hillary Clinton? Or do we weigh their statements against evidence?

This underlines the biggest weakness of the web—and underscores why bloggers will not displace the MSM anytime soon. Links are not evidence; they are leads to be seriously investigated. It is time for the web to grow up.

This LGF case study will make excellent fodder for future college students in Journalism 101 courses. As a study aid, we’ll look at LGF’s primary sources, and then recommend corrections that should have been posted. Even better, we’ll use the ethical standards of the Society of Professional Journalists as a rubric.

1. — Diligently seek out subjects of news stories to give them the opportunity to respond to allegations of wrongdoing.

Based on LGF posts, no attempt was made to obtain a response to the allegations made about Vlaams Belang and Sweden Democrats. To compensate for that lapse in ethics by LGF, CVF and other blogs have posted published interviews, statements, parliamentary speeches, etc. to provide a response to the allegations — all dismissed by LGF without any citation or discussion as “obfuscation.” Any official statement or published interview by Vlaams Belang officials is dismissed as “obfuscation.” Statements of support for Israel, opposition to anti-semitism, opposition to holocaust denial, all dismissed as “obfuscation.” The presence of non-white party members and officials in Vlaams Belang, potential proof of a lack of racism? Carefully not mentioned in any posts. Historical background? “Obfuscation.”Any discussion at an analytic level above the photonovella journalism of LGF? “Obfuscation.”

2. — Identify sources whenever feasible. The public is entitled to as much information as possible on sources’ reliability.

LGF has relied primarily on left-wing, highly biased sources for evidence, photos, videos etc. — all of which have been available for years on anti-Vlaams Belang and Sweden Democrat websites run by opposing political parties. LGF has not disclosed the bias of these sources, which means that the readers are not able to judge for themselves the sources’ reliability. Vlaams Belang and Sweden Democrats are both completely public about their far-right pasts, and both have publicly rejected earlier positions and members that were far-right. Both parties have fought multiple election battles against left-wing opponents, so all the evidence “disclosed” by LGF was simply recycled from past campaigns. LGF’s “discoveries” were already very old news in Belgium and Sweden. It is conceivable that LGF might even lose credibility with their largely conservative/libertarian readers, if they knew that LGF was relying primarily on extreme left-wing sources for the Vlaams Belang and Sweden Democrats reporting. Readers should ask: why does LGF uses primarily left-wing sources when covering Vlaams Belang, but excludes from analysis VB’s copious archive of parliamentary motions, speeches, interviews, etc? At the least, this is journalism several degrees less professional than the mainstream media. Here are four representative left-wing sources for various photos or videos posted at LGF, with no disclosure of the source’s ideology:

LGF Source #1: Blokwatch is a website dedicated to opposing the Flemish independence party Vlaams Belang. Blokwatch is run by Marc Spruyt, author of two books critical of VB, who with another LGF source Øyvind Strømmen, is a member of the European Consortium for Political Research’s “Standing Group on Extremism & Democracy.” Spruyt, Strommen and their 600+ colleagues have a vested interest in creating an expansive and politically correct definition of “extremism”:

The majority of the members work on issues of political extremism (ca. 375 [out of 600+]). The bulk of them research movements and ideas related to ‘right-wing extremism,’ including antisemitism, fascism, nationalism, and populism. Only some 30 members study (also) the extreme left.

Spruyt lists as a partner in his efforts Patrick Coeman, now owner of the antifa.net website, which is host to extremist left-wing antifa, autonome and anarchist groups across Europe. Here are the websites hosted by the Blokwatch partner antifa.net:


Of course, LGF has every right to use information from Blokwatch or Blokwatch’s autonome, antifa and anarchist partners; and LGF readers should have every expectation of full disclosure of Blokwatch’s bias.

LGF Source #2: Øyvind Strømmen. Strømmen’s book on “Eurofascism” will soon be published. He is fond of applying the “fascist” label rather widely — to Oriana Fallaci, also here, where he states that support for Fallaci can lead to “politically motivated violence.“ In his “fisking” of Mark Steyn (America Alone) he denies the existence of any Eurabia project, and then gives us our marching orders: “So, here’s the deal: An increasing number of Europeans will be Muslim. Deal with it.” Elsewhere he writes of the fascists whom he finds everywhere EXCEPT in Islamofascism, for which he is an enthusiastic apologist:
- - - - - - - - -
Instead of worrying about Islamofascism, European politicians should worry about not-so-good, old-fashioned European fascism, which increasingly makes it presence known in a number of European countries. Groups on the socalled far right use the onesidedness of the media to their advantage; and are gaining a momentum. The spokesmen of fascism are once again being listened to as wise and daring voices, voices who speak out against the "occupation" of Europe by "strangers".

The modern-day fascists come in all kinds of clothing, some of them dressing like liberals and some of them like conservatives. Many modern-day fascists will deny being so. But fascism is not as easy to recognise as in "V for Vendetta?", not in most cases. European fascists have learnt to dress themselves in the robes of political correctness, that is — in a suit and with a tie. This is what Eurofascism looks like, and it even appeals to people who are not fascists at all…

LGF Source #3: The Yellowman site, also used as a resource for LGF, inherited the Blokwatch materials after that website stopped updates, and is also a repository for all anti-Vlaams Belang materials gathered by opposition parties over the years. One of their shocked, shocked objections to Vlaams Belang: a photo of a VB demonstration (lower right column) with the caption “Vlaams Belang supports George W. Bush and the war” (“Vlaams Belang steunt George W. Bush en oorlog.”).

LGF Source #4: The primary source used for “evidence” against the Swedish Democrats was Expo.se, a far-left organization associated with the violent AFA that has repeatedly and openly attacked Swedish Democrat candidates and members. The founder of Expo, Tobias Hubinette, wrote in 1996 (Creal no 1 1996 och “Svartvitt” (Black-and-White) [translation from Swedish] :

“To feel and even think that the white race is inferior in every conceivable way is natural with regards to its history and present actions. Let the Western countires of the white race perish in blood and suffering. Long live the multi-cultural, racially mixed and class-free ecological society! Long live anarchy!”

“I started by simply attacking and more or less assault persons that acted in a racist way around me. It could be everything from full-blown skinheads to school-aged children or older men and women”

To get a sense of Expo, look at their U.S. partner: Expo asserts a cooperative relationship with the Center For New Community in the U.S. (CNC), an open-borders group. CNC dismisses any opposition to illegal immigration as “the new nativism.” The latest CNC report is “Nativism in the House: A Report on the House Immigration Reform Caucus.” Here is what LGF source Expo’s partner, CNC, has to say about the House Immigration Reform Caucus:

The Caucus’s extreme ideological agenda, long-standing ties to anti-immigrant groups, and cohesion in a fractured House of Representatives makes it a noxious ingredient in the melting pot of America. It has drawn even well-intentioned immigration reform proposals down into an abyss of nativism and xenophobia.

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So much for LGF’s sources. Next we list the corrections that should have been posted, illustrating several other Society of Professional Journalists standards that LGF ignored, including:

1. Make certain that headlines, news teases and promotional material, photos, video, audio, graphics, sound bites and quotations do not misrepresent. They should not oversimplify or highlight incidents out of context [this was a major cause for corrections in the LGF case study, where any “context” was equated with the oft-repeated “obfuscation”].
2. Tell the story of the diversity and magnitude of the human experience boldly, even when it is unpopular to do so.
3. Examine their own cultural values and avoid imposing those values on others.
4. Support the open exchange of views, even views they find repugnant.
5. Distinguish between advocacy and news reporting. Analysis and commentary should be labeled and not misrepresent fact or context.
6. Clarify and explain news coverage and invite dialogue with the public over journalistic conduct.
7. Encourage the public to voice grievances against the news media.
8. Admit mistakes and correct them promptly.
9. Expose unethical practices of journalists and the news media.
10. Abide by the same high standards to which they hold others.

Suggested Corrections

Corrections Concerning Sverigedemokraterna

1.   Oct 24, 2007

“As for the other party I identified as problematic for the anti-jihad movement in this post, Sverigedemokraterna (Sweden Democrats), the web site expo.se has a gallery of photos of their links to neo-Nazis, including this image from 1996:” [photo of a woman in a Nazi-type uniform]”If you research these groups, it’s impossible to miss these disturbing connections.”

Refuted here and here.

Suggested correction: “The assertion that the photograph of Tina Hallgren Bengtsson in a Nazi uniform was taken at a Sverigedemokraterna rally is untrue. At the time this photograph was taken, Ms. Bengtsson had already left the Sweden Democrats, and joined the Nationalsocialistisk Front (NSF), i.e. the Nazi Party. The event depicted in the photograph is most likely an NSF rally. Sweden Democrats continued to purge the party of other members with neo-Nazi sympathies, with a clean break by 2000.”

2.   Oct 25, 2007

“I received an email from Ted Ekeroth, an active politician in the Sweden Democrats, asking me to reconsider my opinion about his party.”If you haven’t noticed yet, I have serious misgivings about both Vlaams Belang and Sverigedemokraterna.”Ekeroth included the following documents with his email, and because I have an enormous respect for the group intelligence of the lizard army, and because I’m trying to be fair even while the hackles rise on the back of my neck, I’m putting them online and inviting comments. (And of course, I’ll form my own opinions as well.)”

Refuted here and here.

Suggested correction: “The Sweden Democrats of today have made a clean break with the past. The leadership of the party is all changed, and problematic members have been expelled. There are no disturbing connections to be found today. The standards should be no different for the Sweden Democrats than for all the other Swedish parties, all of which have disturbing Nazi connections in the past.”


Corrections Concerning Vlaams Belang

3.   Oct 19, 2007

“It’s important to note that not all the people who are hitching a ride on the anti-Islamization movement are doing it for honorable reasons. There are serious issues around the participation of Filip Dewinter (of the ultra-nationalist Vlaams Belang party, successor to Vlaams Blok).”

Refuted here, here, and here.

Suggested correction: “It is not dishonorable for the Flemish citizens to organize politically against the Islamisation of their own cities. In fact, those real-life political efforts may be the real anti-Islamisation movement, on which bloggers are hitching a ride.”

4.   Oct 24, 2007

“Exhibit 1: in 2005, Vlaams Belang MPs shunned a resolution condemning the Nazi death camps.”

Refuted here and here.

Suggested correction: “Vlaams Belang voted against the 2005 EU Parliament Holocaust Resolution because its wording contained support for an EU bill that would criminalize criticism of Islam. Vlaams Belang and the Flemish Parliament passed a resolution the following day commemorating the Holocaust, and an open letter to the Jewish community explaining the EU Parliament vote. Vlaams Belang has taken a strong stance on behalf of Israel and is the most pro-Israel party in Belgium.”

5.   Oct 24, 2007

“Exhibit 2: a White Power flag at a Vlaams Belang rally this month. The other flags are Flemish nationalist flags, and the one partly visible behind the White Power flag is typically used by Vlaams Belang.”

Refuted here.

Suggested correction: “When I referred to event with the photograph of the flag as a ‘Vlaams Belang rally’, I was mistaken. The event in question was in fact a VJW (Youth of West Flanders) rally in Brugge. VJW is an entirely separate organization and has nothing whatsoever to do with Vlaams Belang.”

6.   Oct 24, 2007

“Exhibit 3: As mentioned above, the predecessor to Vlaams Belang, Vlaams Blok, was outlawed in 2004.

Refuted here.

Suggested correction: “Vlaams Blok was made illegal under the totalitarian Belgian anti-discrimination law, by a judge affiliated with the opposing party, for allegedly ‘racist’ materials such as studies quoting government demographic and crime statistics, and a critique of Islam’s treatment of women by an Islamic member of VB.”

7.   Oct 24, 2007

“Exhibit 4: we don’t only find support for Vlaams Belang at Stormfront. Here’s a post at the ‘Pan Aryan National Front,’ with links to many VB videos.

Refuted here.

Suggested correction: “The fact that Storm Front or other anti-Semitic groups link to Vlaams Belang means nothing; Little Green Footballs itself is often linked by groups with whom I disagree. Some anti-semitic forums link to Vlaams Belang to criticize the VB support for Israel.”

8.   Oct 27, 2007

“…here are some more videos on the Flemish Vlaams Belang party and Filip DeWinter, to further support my case that the European anti-Islamization movement is making a mistake by allowing this group to participate.Exhibit 1: a recent video of an interview with Filip Dewinter discussing Turkey and the EU, where we see what is undoubtedly a white power statue on his bookshelf. It’s near the end of this short clip.”

Refuted here.

Suggested correction: “The design on Filip Dewinter’s bookshelf (known as ‘Odin’s Cross’ or a ‘Celtic Cross’) is not primarily a ‘white power’ symbol. It has a long and respected history as a symbol of Flemish patriotism and of links to Irish and Brittany nationalism as well.”

9.   Oct 27, 2007

From 1991 video:Dewinter speaking: “: ‘Yes, the Vlaams Blok (Flemish Block) chooses our own people first (slogan: Eigen Volk Eerst). And yes, the Vlaams Blok chooses a Flemish Flanders. And yes, the Vlaams Blok chooses a white Europe.’

Refuted here.

Suggested correction: “Dewinter clarifies his statement in this interview: “When I said I was in favor of a white Europe, that was a metaphor. It meant I was in favor of our values, our way of life, our civilization. And yes, it’s a white civilization in the past, I can’t deny that. That has nothing to do with white supremacist or racism, it was just a fact. I am not an ethnical nationalist, I am a cultural nationalist. I believe in cultures and values. I accept that there is diversity now. I accept that other people from other continents live over here, they are part of our civilization now. And it has nothing to do with the color of you skin. It has nothing to do with your race or where you’re coming from. It has to do with your way of life, your values, are you loyal to our civilization …I don’t think Islam is compatible with our way of life, with our values, our European and western civilization. So if Muslims want to live over here, they should accept our values. It’s for them to decide if they can become European and stay Muslim.”

10.   Oct 30, 2007

Vlaams Belang’s party platform asks for full and unconditional amnesty for people convicted for collaboration with Nazi Germany after World War II. Vlaams Belang claims that many convicts were victims of excesses by the Belgian judiciary system against Flemish nationalists. It also states that it has “equal respect” for the suffering of all the victims during the years of war and the repression afterwards, regardless of whichever side they had sided with, or of whichever side the Belgian judiciary maintained that they had sided with. It states that all other European countries have already granted amnesty, and that the 1961 Belgian “Vermeylen” law is no general amnesty law such as in the Netherlands or France, but only possibly grants amnesty after expressing regret about the actions committed.

Refuted here.

Suggested correction: “This position is held by the other Flemish independence parties as well, so it at least should be seen as an issue in Flemish independence. In 1998, the Flemish Parliament approved state-aid for thousands of collaborators, who were thereafter to be treated on the same legal basis as “victims of war” who suffered or were persecuted by the Nazis. The 60 Flemish MPs who supported the measure were from the Christian-Social CVP party, the Volksunie and the Vlaams Blok.”

11.   Nov 4, 2007

“Here’s DeWinter with French neo-fascist/Holocaust “minimizer” Jean-Marie Le Pen:”[photo]

Refuted here and here.

Suggested correction: “Dewinter has unequivocally rejected Le Pen’s views on Israel, the Holocaust, and his support for Islamists. A photo showing Dewinter greeting Le Pen at a funeral does not negate his statements”

12.   Nov 5, 2007

“If you’ve been following the misleading claims put out by Vlaams Belang supporters such as Brussels Journal, you probably noticed that they’re now saying that assassinated Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn was a supporter of Vlaams Belang, and never called Filip DeWinter a ‘fascist,’ as cited by Wikipedia.”Two European readers have now emailed links to sources for this quote…”Michael Van Der Galiën… emailed a better translation of Fortuyn’s statement:”‘Those men say unacceptable things. DeWinter is a fascist. I’m a civilized man. You won’t hear me say: “own people first.” And am I not much more sympathetic than DeWinter?’“

Refuted here and here.

Suggested correction: “Pim Fortuyn did not view Vlaams Belang or Filip Dewinter as a fascist, as evidenced by other quotes from him such as this one:”‘Give us a break! Holland is full of monuments to the Second World War. And then Kok endlessly goes from today back to then, and the checkered past, and Nazism. I find it entirely invalid to liken these [i.e., the past and present]. It just poisons the whole topic [of immigrant issues]. I also think the way that Kok describes Haider’s views is scandalous. Haider is not a Nazi. And if he is, then he’s no different than many in the Social Democratic and Christian Democratic parties. Sure, [Haider’s party] have a problem with their checkered past, but all the parties do. And who gave shelter to all the “war criminals” after the war? That was the Allied coalition, and not Haider. So what is Kok on about? Also, it’s not valid to talk about the Vlaams Blok in that way, either. It is senseless to be endlessly milking this Hitler thing. Then and now, are two incomparable realities.’“

13.   Nov 6, 2007

“So, since I want to try to avoid that astonishingly authentic-appearing Belgian government disinformation, let’s go directly to the source this time, with some images from the Vlaams Belang youth magazine (published online as PDF files).”Frequently appearing in this magazine is De Striprubriek, a column about comic strips. The logo for this column is a rat with a fountain pen.And a lovely White Nationalist Odin’s Cross armband.”

Refuted here and here.

Suggested correction: “The Black Rat is a widespread symbol of youthful rebellion, used in both Flanders and Wallonia by groups of varying political persuasions. As I acknowledged earlier, the Celtic Cross or Odin’s Cross is not primarily a ‘white power’ symbol in Flanders, but rather a symbol for separatism and independence. This fact, plus the absence of any other evidence supporting such a connotation for the cartoon, leads me to conclude that there is no basis for referring to it as a ‘white power rat’.”

14.   Nov 9, 2007

And here’s Koen Dillen enjoying the company of Belgian nazi collaborator Leon Degrelle, ranking Standartenführer in the Waffen SS

Refuted here.

Suggested correction: From the statement by Koenraad Dillen: “Yes I met LD on 11th of July 1992. I was 27 years old at the time.I finished my studies in 1987 with a paper on the french writer Robert Brasillach. The director of my thesis was a left wing professor of literature, named George Adé. He died in 1992. I got “maxima cum laude” with my thesis.Before the war, Robert Brasillach published a book on “Léon Degrelle et l’avenir de Rex”. Since my paper deals a lot with Brasillach and Belgium, I took a genuine interest in Degrelle and wrote about him. He was an important figure in prewar politicics and played a major role during the war years. After the war, in exile, he continued his life in Spain as a writer. Soldier on the eastern front, Degrelle was convicted, in absentia, for high treason. But he was never charged with war crimes.I had neither sympathy, nor animosity for Degrelle in 1992. He was 84 years old at the time. He interested me as a person who played a historical role. No more, no less. I had no political functions at the time.In may 1992, I started a weekly column on French intellectual life and politics in the newspaper ‘t Pallieterke. I still write my article every week. So I have a partly job as a journalist.Degrelle talked to me. He explained me for example, why Franco did extradite Pierre Laval, the prime minister of collaborating France who was executed by De Gaulle and not him, the SS-general. (“Because I was Catholic, and Laval not”.) It was an interesting testimony, never published in any book. Why should I be blamed. I had a few drinks on his terrace. Fifty years after the war, it was not up to me to act as an attorney general ! He signed some books and photos. Did I have to refuse ? I met the former bolchevik commissar Lew Kopelev in 1987. He signed his memories for me. Does it make me a communist ?….I had interviewed and toasted with many french socialists — eg. the former minister of Foreign Affairs Roland Dumas. It doesn’t make me a socialist.”


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Why Political Parties Matter

Legislation is still a good way to oppose Islamization in the U.S. and in Europe. Some political parties — minority members of coalitions who nonetheless have representation in parliaments and local governments, and often a swing vote — have made opposition to Islamization an objective in the party platform.

Other political parties have objectives that achieve the goal of resisting Islamization through more indirect means:

  • limiting or stopping immigration from Islamic countries or all non-European countries
  • deportation of illegal immigrants and convicted immigrant felons
  • limits on the age of immigrants
  • stronger counter-terrorism policies
  • policies permitting self-defense
  • policies permitting criticism of Islam without being persecuted for “racism” or other discrimination

Each country has its own unique political and cultural capabilities to oppose Islamization, but cross-pollination of ideas is crucial to legitimizing the resistance for each group. We hope to help by compiling information on anti-Islamization policies, legislative drafts and public opinion. We can track the progress of legislation and of the political campaigns for local and national office. This is the long slow plodding work of change within a democracy.

We can coordinate and share ideas where possible — online or in person. Numerous meetings to counter Islamization have done exactly this — both before the Counterjihad Brussels 2007 summit and after it. We’re involved in the tiniest fraction of what goes on, because most efforts to resist Islamization are either above our pay grade or are local. A community will organize to stop the building of a mosque, or to stop beatings, car burnings, and rapes by organized gangs of Muslim immigrants, or to insist on the use of constitutional law, not shariah law, in local court cases.

Meanwhile, we continue to build out networks in the U.S. and Europe, and a little in Asia now.

We will research, interview, report on, and selectively coordinate with a wide range of groups and political parties who may contribute to the resistance against Islamization. Some of those parties we plan to cover may be rightwing, Euroskeptic, and support national sovereignty, and others may be more center-right (UMP comes to mind). Some may have members who are anti-Semitic, anti-Israel or problematic in some other way, and we will report on that as well. We have exhaustively noted that to the extent we “support” any groups, they must not only actively oppose anti-Semitism, but also support Israel’s right to self-determination as a Jewish state with defensible borders.

Some registered parties and other political groups are particularly interesting:

  • Union Démocratique du Centre (Swiss)
  • Dansk Folkeparti
  • Vlaams Belang
  • Sverigedemokraterna
  • Perussuomalaiset and Suomen Kristillisdemokraatit
  • The UK Independence Party
  • Partij voor de Vrijheid
  • Partido Popular (Spain)
  • Christian People’s Alliance (United Kingdom)

Other Euroskeptic parties who are part of the Union for Europe for the Nations, such as:

  • Forza Italia
  • Alleanza Nationale
  • Lega Nord
  • The emerging Freedom Party

We intend to follow and report on any work they do to oppose Islamization, to oppose anti-Semitism, and to support Israel.

In Europe some parties may have members who may have associated in the distant or near past with: the Nazis, the Communists, Mussolini, Franco, Tito, Rakosi, Pieck and Ulbricht and Honecker, BNP, Le Pen and Megret and de Villiers and Maurras and the pro- and anti-Islamist factions in the UMP, Georgalas or the KKE, Zhivkov, Ceausescu, Salazar, various parties included in the “Tangentopoli,” Kekkonen, regional identity parties, and so on.

History happened in Europe. We intend to assess the influence of the past on the present on a case by case basis. Our assumption is that the threat of Islamofascism is greater than the threat of resurgent European fascism, and in this we differ from the two LGF sources in the left-wing “Standing Group on Extremism & Democracy.”

We guarantee that researchers will always find someone in any political party who at some time in the past was involved in something illegal or extremist or simply personally racist, sexist, or rude. We hope LGF and other blogosphere researchers will research and analyze all aspects of European political parties, and that this analysis will be comprehensive and professional and aspire to the standards listed above from the Society of Professional Journalists.

57 comments:

Dan Bostan said...

Another primary sources for LGF:
1. ADL
2. SPLC

heroyalwhyness said...

quoting from above :

It is conceivable that LGF might even lose credibility with their largely conservative/libertarian readers, if they knew that LGF was relying primarily on extreme left-wing sources. . .

Perhaps its coincidental, but it appears that CJ has been agressively replacing the lizards continuing to leave by opening registration quite frequently since this bruhaha began.

1389 said...

CJ is LYING when he claims to oppose Nazism!

john said...

Baron,
I commend you on your careful and exhaustive post.
I find it unfortunate, once again, that so much effort and energy is needed to counter the recalcitrant nose-picker at lfg.
There are many theories as to why the nose-picker has taken the path he is on. Having observed his actions recently, as well as from being a poster there for nearly two years, I do believe his delicate ego is the main culprit. For which there is only a home remedy.
Still, I am impressed with your diligence in countering the accusations that have been hurled at GoV from him, and the excellent sourcing and linking of pertinent information.
There was a time, at lfg, that links to leftist sites were for comic relief, and not for forming decisive conclusions about the world in which we live.
(no2liberals)

1389 said...

Charles Johnson and his followers are spreading disinformation that gives aid and comfort to our al Qaeda enemies in the Balkans. The time for giving LGF the benefit of the doubt is long over.

Baron Bodissey said...

John --

This was a team effort by CVF. I did very little of it.

You've prompted me to expand the introduction to explain that.

Anonymous said...

"heroyalwhyness said...

quoting from above :

It is conceivable that LGF might even lose credibility with their largely conservative/libertarian readers, if they knew that LGF was relying primarily on extreme left-wing sources. . .

Perhaps its coincidental, but it appears that CJ has been agressively replacing the lizards continuing to leave by opening registration quite frequently since this bruhaha began."

very interesting observation....

and excellent post, by the way...

Anthony said...

I haven't been a regular reader of Little Green Footballs for a long time. I first heard about this little contretemps between you and Charles here on this blog. I read your defenses of VB and Dewinter and thought they sounded quite reasonable. You suggested that Charles was offering a false dichotomy - Islamization or the rise of a New Hitler - and that the situation was far more nuanced than that.

Then about a week ago I realized that after reformatting my computer I hadn't renewed my podcast subscriptions. I updated Shire Network News and was surprised to discover that they had interviewed Mr. Dewinter - and was even more surprised to realize that you had never talked about this interview on your blog. Surely an opportunity for Mr. Dewinter to get his views out to the English-speaking blogosphere was important, right?

Right?

Tom Paine, the original host of Shire Network News, had stated that he had a falling out with Brian of London, the new host, over this issue in a very similar manner to your falling out with LGF. As Tom interviewed Mr. Dewinter, I assumed Tom was on your side - he was not a hostile interviewer at all.

But I trusted Tom to be thorough, and he was. He brought up this quote:

"When my daughter comes home with a lesbian girlfriend, a Muslim or a negro, I'll know I raised her wrong."

I hadn't heard this quote before (and certainly not from you, quell surprise). It bugged me not only because it was bigoted, but specifically it was racially bigoted.

Muslims and lesbians choose to be Muslims and lesbians and thus can choose not to be Muslims and lesbians. Black people can't choose to not be black.

Tom asked him two questions about this quote - gave him two opportunities to tell me what I wanted to hear. I wanted to hear Filip Dewinter state in no uncertain terms that he did not mean that a person whose skin is black cannot possibly share Filip Dewinter's values.

And he didn't. He danced. He bobbed. He weaved. The mental image I got was of that sleazeball lawyer in Aliens saying, "It was a bad call, Ripley. It was a bad call."

And that's when I realized why you never discussed this interview here.

It was only after the interview was over that Tom Paine revealed that he was taking LGF's side in this dispute. And for the first time, I could see why.

And since then I've watched you put up post after post where you rationalize away truly disturbing things about these groups and I can't help but wonder...if LGF's charges are so ridiculous, why are you having to do so much spinning for VB et al?

I'm not really taking anyone's side here. I'm not going to stop reading Gates of Vienna or LGF.

But now I realize that Charles and the others who have objections to VB and other groups like them simply do not want to run any risk of being in any way responsible for the re-rise of fascism in Europe. I sure as hell can understand that. I don't think we need VB and the Swedish Democrats as much as you think we do.

xlbrl said...

John has correctly identified the source of the problem: ego. As Johnson's train grew longer, he became entrapped in its adoration.
Balzac--Glory is a poison, to be taken in small doses.

john said...

Baron,
My bad!
I read the intro, but had forgotten it was CVF that did all the heavy lifting, by the time I had finished reading.
My comment still stands, with proper attribution to CVF.
"There are elements on this planet that are actively seeking weapons of mass destruction for the purpose of using them. They speak as openly as Adolph Hitler did about their desire to kill us and we should honor them by believing they're sincere,"
Newt Gingrich

john said...

One other thought, after seeing so many "not in my fox-hole" comments.
If the person in the fox-hole next to me is returning fire on my mortal enemy, then he is welcome. Whatever personal differences we may have can be addressed after the war is won.
(no2liberals)

Paul Green said...

One caveat here: it bears noting that not all the "ethical standards" propounded by the SPJ are valid. As I observed yesterday, "Hardly had the ashes of 9/11 cooled when the Society of Professional Journalists adopted a set of “diversity guidelines” at the behest of the American Muslim Council that included:

* Seek truth through a variety of voices and perspectives that help audiences understand the complexities of the events in Pennsylvania, New York City and Washington, D.C.

* Seek out people from a variety of ethnic and religious backgrounds when photographing Americans mourning those lost in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania.

* When writing about terrorism, remember to include white supremacist, radical anti-abortionists and other groups with a history of such activity.

* Avoid using word combinations such as "Islamic terrorist" or "Muslim extremist" that are misleading because they link whole religions to criminal activity.

* Avoid using terms such as “jihad” unless you are certain of their precise meaning and include the context when they are used in quotations. The basic meaning of “jihad” is to exert oneself for the good of Islam and to better oneself.

* Use spellings preferred by the American Muslim Council, including "Muhammad," "Quran," and "Makkah ," not "Mecca."

* Ask men and women from within targeted communities to review your coverage and make suggestions.

These prescriptions for journalistic dhimmitude were adopted at the organization’s 2001 national convention in Seattle on Oct. 6. They remain in force, and are prominently posted at the group’s Web site (link above)."

Baron Bodissey said...

Anthony --

I didn't cover the Dewinter interview for the same reason that I didn't cover a lot of what LGF posted back then: I was trying to ignore the issue as much as possible, because I thought it was hogwash, as I still do.

Then the attacks got more vicious and personal. Charles called my wife "demented", and some of his commenters made some very narrowly targeted and alarming posts directed at people I care about.

After that I couldn't duck the issue any longer. I had to deal with it.

You'll notice that the Dewinter interview, and all the other significant issues, are covered in this post, which is intended to be comprehensive. One-stop shopping for all your LGF/VB conflict needs.

You can click all the links, read the material, and make up your own mind. You know what I think, but you may end up with a different opinion. Anyway, at least all the relevant information has been collected.

why are you having to do so much spinning for VB et al?

I'm "spinning" for VB because I and others were viciously and repeatedly attacked, and 99% of it was (and is) disinformation. The rest of it is what it is: you can decide what to make of it.

As I have said repeatedly: We have to respond to baseless attacks, because if we don't, then the attack itself becomes the primary public record of the conflict.

This is the result of that effort. We are finally almost done.

Sarah said...

Anthony,

So wishing that his daughter not be a lesbian or marry a black or a muslim makes him a Nazi?

William Woody said...

I think the difference of opinion I see here boils down to one of what national identity means in Europe verses what it means in America.

In Europe, a collection of countries arose around roughly homogeneous groups. French identity or Flemish identity revolve around a culture which developed around a particular racial group, and that culture then defines the national group: politics and government are almost secondary so long as they preserve the group and cultural identity of the group. And while other races are accepted within that group, acceptance depends highly upon those individuals assimilating into the culture and adopting the national identity of that national group.

In this framework "conservatism" means conserving this cultural/nationalistic outlook: it means preserving the culture against forces of trans-national European unification and against pollution of local and regional culture against influences from foreigners who wish to bring their own culture and religion without respect for the local culture.

America, on the other hand, was founded on an idea, rather than by a specific racial/cultural group. That idea, roughly formulated, is that so long as individuals coming to this country adhere to certain principles--such as mutual respect, self-reliance, and civic participation in a representative government (which includes respect for the rule of law)--they are free to bring their own culture and influence the culture of the majority.

We worry about illegal immigration from Mexico, but not because Mexicans are somehow diluting racial or cultural purity--in fact, I'd say there are regions of Los Angeles which more readily embrace the culture of Mexico than Mexico City does. Our concern is that the massive influx prohibits the incoming Mexicans from "assimilating"--that is, it prevents them from learning enough to become civic minded and have respect for their neighbors. (Groups like La Raza are distrusted precisely because they seem to advocate expelling their neighbors who already live here. However, if they simply advocated their own cultural preservation within the framework of ideas listed above, they wouldn't merit any attention at all.)

The idea held by the Left in Europe of a trans-national European Union doesn't sound like a bad idea to most American's ears: because to an American 'nationalism' is about how a government is structured and how it preserves the core ideas of self-reliance and cultural acceptance, it seems unifying Europe would make things more efficient in Europe. To the right in America (which shouldn't be confused with the right in Europe), the biggest problem is the un-democratic way this unification is coming about: socialism is just a bad form of government. Many on the right in America would have no problem at all with a world government--so long as that world government also respected the ideas of self-reliance, mutual respect and international civic participation in a representative government. (Because the U.N. doesn't honor any of those three ideas, it has got to go.)

Now Islam presents a problem to Americans and to Europeans. To Europeans it represents a massive threat to the culture of Europe: too many people want to preserve their culture seen as outsiders by national leaders, and it's reaching a tipping point: already we see a low-level civil war in France.

To Americans, our only problem with Islam is that many Islamists seem to have little regard for their non-islamic neighbors or those in their own community who diverge from their own culture, and don't appear to want to participate in civic discourse but would rather impose their own ideas of non-participatory religious government on the world. Dump those two ideas, and to most Americans, we'd accept as many Muslims as can move here and set up shop--just as we have accepted many other groups in the past 200 years.

On the surface it sounds like the same problem: Muslims move to a region and have no respect for the locals, so they must adapt or get out. But as an American I would have no problem if a Mosque was built just down the street from me--so long as the members of that mosque respected the synagog and its members that is also just down the street. There are elements of Islamic belief (such as the idea that Jews are like pigs) which make me suspicious of the ability of hard-liner Islamists from really adopting to the idea of mutual neighborly respect and care. But if they could show true and honest mutual respect for their Jewish neighbors, please, by all means, set up shop. (And it's the primary reason why I reject 'multiculturalism'--not because I reject having or respecting multiple cultures in the same area, but because I realize some cultures are xenophobic, and that xenophobia must be excised before they can set up shop.)


I think this is where the fault-line exists between Americans like the one running LGF and those who wish to express their support of nationalist parties such as Vlaams Belang lies: to an American, the sort of nationalism which defines Europe sounds suspiciously racist--even if to European ears it doesn't sound problematic at all. Anything that even hints at neighborly disrespect (such as the Japanese idea of gaijin) rubs Americans the wrong way: they suggest that at best a group doesn't respect their neighbors, but only tolerates their existence--so long as they exist somewhere else. French nationalism similarly sounds racist to American ears--the idea that a Frenchman moving to America can become American, but an American moving to France will always be an American rubs most Americans the wrong way.

So here's the problem. Your extremely long and 'nuanced' post may make the point very clearly to a European that the supporters of nationalism are not Fascists nor are they racist: the fine line of acceptance regardless of one's genetic heritage hasn't been crossed, to your eyes.

But to my eyes--one seeped in the American ideals I noted above, it just sounds like several thousand words of bullshit covering racist tendencies.

That's because to these American eyes, my threshold and what I regard as racist is completely different from yours.

Mark said...

Okay enough already! How is this bickering back and forth between GoV and LGF furthering the cause of anti-jihad? Get back to posting about the evils that these sheep poking fanatics are doing to our society and what we can do about it!
Drop the pride and move on, both of you.
If I could post this on LGF I would, but I always seem to miss the registration windows.

ProFlandria said...

Anthony,

I don't believe that stating "When my daughter comes home with a lesbian girlfriend, a Muslim or a negro, I'll know I raised her wrong" makes Dewinter a bad person. I can deplore that fact that he has no faith in individuals proving him wrong in his assumptions regarding their nature, but that's where it ends.

I have several friends that loathe the idea of dating WITHIN their own race. What does that make them?

The question is important because there may be a perfectly good reason to make this kind of choice.
To be sure, Dewinter's approach does shrink the dating field considerably. But there can be nothing wrong in stating a preference for whom to date based on religion, race, or for any other reason - whether for yourself or for your child. It is a personal choice which others may deplore, but ultimately it should be anyone's right to make that choice.

Plenty of parents discourage their children from dating outside their race because of the lingering stigma on mixed-race children.

Plenty of parents discourage their children from dating same-sex partners because of the added burden of stigma on the relationship.

Plenty of parents oppose their children dating Muslims because they are justifiably apprehensive about what amounts to joining a cult.

If my mother had listened to her parents and her priest, she would not have married a sailor. Germans were also out of the question, as were Englishmen.

I could go on. My point is this: people choose to associate with whom they wish. That frequently means excluding others. And while it may testify to an incredibly generous attitude of selflessness to open yourself to associations with anyone for any reason, it is not bigoted to select less than total inclusion.

Finally, consider that the groups Dewinter singled out for exclusion routinely do the same to whites/christians/heterosexuals without ANY stigma attaching to their preference. There are exclusively black colleges, and black dormitories in regular colleges. Muslims divide the world into a House of Islam, and a House of War. Gay people demand complete acceptance, but don't go to a gay bar and complain about unwanted advances - "What did you expect? it's a gay bar!".

Bottom line - don't care.

More "gotcha" discoveries will undoubtedly come. I have no doubt that they are all equally easy to refute. For my part, I'll be glad to leave all this behind - some people's sensitivities are just set too high for me to feel their pain.

Archonix said...

Since it seems relevant. To quote random posts in an off topic thread...

These guys will never let go, they have been caught...being what they are.

Yes. Desperate nations who are attacked by people they assumed were allies simply because they don't meet the purity criteria.

I didn't see anything new but the fact that they don't let go is a fact in itself: evidently they WANT to cause the greatest possible damage to you.
And this is very interesting.


So reacting to unwarranted and often personal attacks is now "not letting it go". GoV, CVF et al have been reactive throughout this entire affair, never seeking confrontation, always answering charges made by LGF.

Charles himself:

If anyone sees anything new in that magnum opus of misdirection, let me know.

Apparently collating proof and reposting it in a single, easy to search post is "misdirection" now.

Well I'd better get back to shooting f*gg*ts and raping jews, me being such a big nazi and all. Remember, if you touch something that was once touched by a nazi, or even have a photograph of it, you're a nazi too. That's why everyone in Europe is a nazi; they're standing on nazi-tainted soil, breathing nazi-tainted air and eating nazi-infested food.

Yes, I am rather sick of this, and I wish it would end but, until Charles issues an apology and retraction, it will not.

Have a good one peeps.

1389 said...

This article describes the twisted, postmodern, leftist mindset of Charles Johnson, and explains the motivation behind the vicious lies he has been spreading.

He is a habitual liar. Moreover, Charles Johnson's system of values, as revealed on LGF, is incompatible with our efforts to secure the survival of civilized life.

He and his associates are doing tremendous harm, He, and everything he stands for, must be, and are being, discredited with the utmost thoroughness.

John - The way those shrieking harpies at LGF go on about who is not in their "foxholes" - and their constant kissing up to Charles- suggests that their problems might have more to do with sexual issues.

1389 said...

Paul Green,

Those dhimmified journalistic "ethics" explain the predicament we are in.

To the best of my ability, I blog the whole truth and nothing but.

I will not dilute truth with error to appear "fair and balanced." The devil has enough spokesmen, and spokeswomen too.

AngleofRepose said...

I too found Dewinter's statement a bit unpalatable. But Proflandria has provided a powerful counter-argument in which I find myself nodding in agreement.

All of us in one way or another bring to the table various experiences and general outlooks on life. This fact cannot be discounted when gauging the reactions by all parties involved because it is these things that factor into decisions on whether to be someone's friend or associate. /Capt Obvious...

What I find lacking in CJ and many of his more strident lizards - objectivity. Case in point - one lizard says:

It's the usual crap, too many words with zero facts

Zero facts?? And yet CJ has "an enormous respect for the group intelligence of the lizard army.."

Kinda says a lot right there.

Here's the rest of the quote that archonix provided up above:

It's already been amply demonstrated to me that Gates of Vienna has no interest in an honest discussion, and a quick skim through the post looks like a whole lot more of the same.

Some of us beg to differ.

All along I've preferred the even-handed, non-hysterical way in which CVF and Baron have countered the accusations. LGFs approach from the very beginning smacked of a vindictive smear-job and only grew uglier from there. If anybody can be accused of obfuscation, it's him.

A heartfelt gracias to the CVF team.

islam o' phobe said...

William Woody, the idea you're describing is the Immigration and Nationality Act amendments of 1965.

Are We Really a Nation of Immigrants?

Pogo said...

Anthony, It appears that Filip deWinter's son-in-law preferences make him either a racist or National Socialist (I refuse to use the acronym for these collectivists) in your view. What, pray tell is the category you assign to Muslims who will murder their female progeny for the crime of selecting "improper" male companionship?

Mr. Woody, I have heard the term "racist" bandied about ad nauseam of late, but after wading through a few thousand words of your own comment I find the following: "But to my eyes--one seeped [sic] in the American ideals I noted above, it just sounds like several thousand words of bullshit covering racist tendencies". WTF are "racist tendencies"? From the context of your comment they would appear to be European cultural values with which you either disagree or fail to understand.

Witch-king of Angmar said...

Baron, I advise that you do not hold your breath for imam al-Charles'(peace be upon him) corrections.

1389 said...

William Woody,

How hypocritical, self-righteous, politically-correct Americans satisfy their pent-up demand for racism.

Baron,

CJ is incapable of admitting fault. He will no doubt keep spouting lies until someone finally sues him for defamation.

Lex said...

OH HEAVENS NO, NOT A LIBERAL!!!

I most definitely must thank you for this new goldmine, both in terms of posting and comments.

This one may well be one of my favorites so far:


"I don't believe that stating "When my daughter comes home with a lesbian girlfriend, a Muslim or a negro, I'll know I raised her wrong" makes Dewinter a bad person."

But does willingly associating with a person who states such a thing say something rather nasty about a person? I'd say that's a big "YES!".

Again, many thanks for this CVF ego-maniacal decision to keep dictating terms. Priceless.

Homophobic Horse said...

If this goes on for more than 100 days, it becomes a Holy War by usenet standards.

Henrik said...

Hi Baron

Thought I would post an email I sent Charles Johnson through the comment feature on the left side of his blog. It was a reply to the post he did on the Sweden Democrats. Parts of it may be of interest, others are already covered many times over:

"I realize, that you will probably be sick and tired of the SD by now, but I thought I should give some more input, specifically on Truumax´ contribution. To begin with, it is important to understand, that EXPO is a far-left site. As such, little of what they write is directly untrue, but most of the info is being spun to push SD as far right as possible in the public mind - what they dont say is often as important as what they DO say. A couple examples:

1) The allegations of racism and nazism against named people stand, but note that pretty much all of the people named have been expelled or pushed out of the party.

2) You will note that almost all the instances are pre-2001, when the party only had some 900 members. Infiltrating it and getting into high positions was easy. Since then, the party has been going through a process of moderation, expelling scores of radicals, and more than tripling its membership to almost 3.000. You are looking at the party in the light of former associations, not of what it is now.

3) A symbol like the SD flame symbol WAS used before that by the BNP, and it may be where the SD got the idea. The origin is not there, though. Like with the Olympic flame, the symbol goes back to Prometheus, who in Greek mythology stole fire (knowledge/power) from the gods and gave it to humankind.

4) The story of the Engelbrekt-march and the German division is bogus, as are the nazi allegations that go along with it. The German division mentioned was the 163rd Infantry Division, that however in Sweden and Norway was named after its commander, general Erwin Engelbrecht. The SD march, however, is named after Engelbrekt Engelbrektsson, the leader of a Swedish rebellion against Danish king Erik of Pommerania in 1434...more than 500 years before the nazi general came along.

5) A general note. Sweden is what you could call a liberal´s dream-society. Everything, even the officially rightwing parties, are run through and through with political correctness in its social democrat variety. As a result, even rightwingers are ready to call anything that smacks of fex immigration control "nazism". I assume, without knowing him, that Truumax is such a person, belonging on the swedish right wing. The PC atmosphere is also why you see the reaction of the Swedish Zionist Organisation to Ted Ekeroth being in the SD - it is not so much the substance of the person given a prize that is important, but with whom he associates, and the SD are by definition persona non grata in Sweden".

Henrik

Chalons said...

Mr Woody,

Not all Americans have been conditioned to your level of myopia. Nowhere in 'American ideals' can one find the notion that one is to turn off their brain when race is introduced into the debate. Yes, many do, but that relatively recent 'ideal' comes from academic circles. It is not an American ideal.

Many more of us (Americans) are far less willing to sacrifice the ideals freedom of speech , self determination, and freedom of association at the altar of politcal correctness. Because we do still respect these 'American ideals' , we find ourselves far less prejudiced, far less paranoid and far less prone to witch hunting than those who see everything though a racial lens.

Americans that cannot see clearly enough to recognize race hucksters like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and the Duke 88 (professors) for what they are hardly have the moral authority to witch hunt in Europe. They actually tend to look rather foolish.

Be careful when you attempt to speak for all Americans. You do not.

RISE_UP said...

Anthony said:

But I trusted Tom to be thorough, and he was. He brought up this quote:

"When my daughter comes home with a lesbian girlfriend, a Muslim or a negro, I'll know I raised her wrong."

I hadn't heard this quote before (and certainly not from you, quell surprise). It bugged me not only because it was bigoted, but specifically it was racially bigoted.

Muslims and lesbians choose to be Muslims and lesbians and thus can choose not to be Muslims and lesbians. Black people can't choose to not be black.

I beg to differ with you. Muslims may choose to be muslims but lesbians do not choose to be lesbians my friend no more than blacks can choose not to be black or red headed people can choose not to be red headed. And ...I find nothing...as a father that Dewinter is...in his having a preferance for his daughter. Such hypocrisy or such cowardice for not admitting to one's own best wishes for his children.
BTW, I did hear the interview and the host was clearly hostile.Thus his questions were asked in a hostile way.

enuff said...

As background, this debate was started by LGF’s objections to the participation by individuals from two European political parties — Vlaams Belang and the Sweden Democrats — at a two-day conference of individuals working against Islamization of western institutions.

Ahhh...so...the Bride was stood up by the Groom who questioned..uh..various assertions of innocence or truth on part of the Bride, her family and/or entourage.

...and we have some very, very angry ex-LGF Bridesmaids.


This is good.


Please, do continue on.

Sodra Djavul said...

enuff said: Ahhh...so...the Bride was stood up by the Groom who questioned..uh..various assertions of innocence or truth on part of the Bride, her family and/or entourage.

...and we have some very, very angry ex-LGF Bridesmaids.


With all due respect, your statement seems a bit pretentious. The VB and the SD did not organize/attend the European conference in an attempt to gain the good graces of Charles Johnson or LGF.

I seriously doubt that they care as deeply as most of us at GoV do. CJ and his slander need to be confronted because it is he who is ruining the credibility of the anti-jihadist movement. Seriously, who would want to ally with him and his loons if over the course of two weeks they could progress from falsely and dishonestly labelling you a "fascist" to concluding you were worthy of being shot as I've frequently seen posted in the comments section of LGF.

And while we're at it, bringing up the point that LGF should no longer be considered a conservative blog is due as well. That last point isn't just about this recent spat. It's become endemic to LGF.

- Sodra

Ed Mahmoud said...

Having hear the Tom Paine interview Anthony references, I do suspect that Filip DeWinter may indeed have some racist tendencies. Which isn't good, but a general discomfort about, say, people of African ancestry, doesn't mean DeWinter is a Nazi.


Does anyone really think Robert Byrd, who was former Kleagle of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, who referred to blacks as a 'mongrel race', has really and completely realized the errors of his ways? Yet he is the 'conscience of the US Senate', and after Vice President Cheney and Speaker Pelosi, is next in line to succeed the President if something happens to him.

1389 said...

While we are at it, let's bring in a little more evidence to refute the disgusting, racist blood libels that Charles Johnson and his followers are uttering against the Serbian people.

Kosovo 101: The REAL reason for the US/NATO genocide against the Serbs.

Anonymous said...

I think this fits in well here and I hope you, Dymphna and BB don't mind:

American Conservatives, give me back my faith in you.

TC

livfreerdie said...

Mr. Woody, I'm an American, born, raised and paid for in sweat and blood. When it comes to some whacked out Muslim saying I have to convert or give up my life, I am downright bigoted, racist, whatever.

Tom

Anonymous said...

Good heavens!

“To feel and even think that the white race is inferior in every conceivable way is natural with regards to its history and present actions. Let the Western countires of the white race perish in blood and suffering. Long live the multi-cultural, racially mixed and class-free ecological society! Long live anarchy!”

“I started by simply attacking and more or less assault persons that acted in a racist way around me. It could be everything from full-blown skinheads to school-aged children or older men and women”


And they call US "racists" and "fascists"!!! Who here is advocating wholesale cultural and actual genocide! I really think less of Charles by aligning himself with open borders loons like this. Also it's readily apparent from reading Oyvind's blog that he is a pretty out-there open borders advocate himself, as well as an Islamophile.

Anonymous said...

Heh. Heh. In addition, if Oyvind thinks that followers of Oriana Fallaci are "violent" and have "fascist" tendancies, what does that make the vast majority of Lizards? They WORSHIP her over there!

ChenZhen said...

This entire post seems to rely on the misguided assumption that CJ, or any other blogger, really cares about -or feels bound by- the principles of journalistic ethics or standards. All any of us our spouting here are our opinions, at the end of the day.

That said, I think that you guys are wasting your time. Mr. Johnson obviously took a stand on this issue, and for ego's sake he's going to feel compelled to back it up with whatever he can, which would include "leftist sources" if necessary. He's just a blogger, not 60 Minutes, after all.

What compounds the absurdity of all this is that the whole pillow fight is taking place within the paradigm that there is such a thing as this undefinable and ambiguous concept called the "anti-jihad movement". I think most of you (CJ included) need to step back and take a look at yourselves from an outside perspective. This isn't really a "movement"; the way I see it, you're a gang of armchair warriors who think you can change the world with a chorus of collective whining and finger-pointing. That's it. I would suggest you get over yourselves and move on.

Anonymous said...

I listened to the Tom Paine interview. It was painfully amateurish. The interviewer had a disapproving, hostile tone. Dewinter would've been justified in walking out. As for what he said about his daughter's potential suitors, I agree with him. How nice that he answered as a father instead of a politician.

Mr. Woody, speak for yourself. If you want to spout platitudes about what America means to you, cool. I, speaking only for myself, think your ideas are a crock.

lowandslow said...

Get a load of ChenZhen. The very first thread on his blog he's saluting the some idiotic flame war between two bloggers I never heard of on a Olbermann thread. Yet Chen here wants to label Baron Bodissey and Dymphna as "armchair warriors".
Do you even know what this is about Chen? Do you know their role in Counterjihad Brussels?

Anonymous said...

Chen used to be a major troll on LGF.

Rosenzweig said...

When I read the list of organizations hosted by the LGF source Blokwatch partner Patrick Coeman, on his antifa.net website I got the picture. The fast majority of the leftwing, antifa groups there are from Germany. And they seem to be integrated in a continental network. The German groups I know of belong to a very special minority current of the German (and it seems even continental) leftwing movement. In Germany they call themselves the ‘Anti-Germans’. They are Marxist, very much into Adorno and Horkheimer and lately also Freud. They are vibrant pro Israel, pro Bush, pro Iraq war and Anti Islam. A political mixture, which seems almost impossible in the USA. But here they are, very loud, very young and it is kind of refreshing to have them as a counterpart to the ‘anti-Zionist’ left majority.
But of cause the ‘Anti-Germans’ draw a line. They view the parties of what they call ‘the new right’ as fascist. They would loose all their credibility as left-wingers when associated with a party like Vlaams Belang. So they are kind of caught in a twist and now they import this twist overseas.
However, Parties like Vlaams Belang, SVP etc. are as much fascist as every party of the political establishment (including the social democratic ones) from Scandinavia to France. After the war Germany was full of ex Nazis and the rest of once occupied continental Europe was full of collaborators. And then you could find them in every party from right to left. The same accusations as against Vlaams Belang have been thrown against the CDU in Germany since 50 years. And not without reason. The leader- and membership of the CDU was packed with ex Nazis. Today the CDU with her chancellor Angela Merkel is political totally correct. Seen from an USA point of view the CDU is more ‘democrats’ than ‘republican’. But if you look closely you still will find in the CDU people with, for instance, racial bias. But this do not makes them Neo Nazis. And it also do not makes Filip Dewinter a fascist when he talks in this interview with Shire Networks around his bias towards black people. He is simply biased, but this is his personal view, which is not shared by every member of Vlaams Belang.
Nazis talk different and walk different. We have Nazis in Germany. They are organized in and around the NPD, they deny the Holocaust, they hate the Jews, they give interviews to Iranian TV etc. They are the fringe Charles Johnson is so afraid to be associated with.
Recently one of the leading Nazis of Germany, Horst Mahler (who by the way was 30 years ago the founder of the terrorist left gang ‘Rote Armee Fraktion’), got a big interview in the German Vanity Fair. If you want to know how a Nazi talks, read this. It is online. Interestingly many from the pro Israel left sided Blogfolk protested against the publication of this interview. You could get the suspicion that they do not like to hear how a real Nazi sounds. It makes it more difficult for them to accuse conservative rightwing people as fascist.

1389 said...

ChenZhen,

Much as I'd like to tell you where to go, I can't, because you obviously are already there.

We ARE doing useful work by EDUCATING THE PUBLIC.

Why don't you do something useful instead of spending your life as a minor nuisance?

BTW, if anybody wants to set up the next Counterjihad Conference in Europe or anywhere else, we will be delighted to publicize it on 1389 Blog - Antijihadist Tech. We're self-hosted and not dependent on the goodwill of Blogger.com, so we don't worry about being shut down. Interested parties can click here to get in touch with us.

1389 said...

Lex,

Troll much?

How about if I said that liberals have a propensity to corrupt everyone and everything they encounter, and that I don't trust people who fraternize too much with liberals?

After all, leftist ideology is inherently wrong and harmful to everyone, most of all to the hapless folks that it purports to help. The only way liberals can succeed in spreading that poison is by doing evil - lying, cheating, threatening, smearing innocent people, and using violence when they don't get their way. And I have found liberals to be as bad in their personal lives as they are in terms of their ideology. I am not saying that all conservatives are good - but I am saying that leftist ideology is inherently corrupting.

David said...

The female non-white VB member who was cited as evidence for non-racism has left the party, claiming that the party is too extreme. Please research and correct this post as appropriate.

Lex said...

1389, define your terms. If you've run into me before, you will know that I consider these terms to be outdated. That said, being around self-identified conservatives has driven me to flying rainbow flags here at both homes, and frankly, my only concern when it comes to the agenda of those aiming for Democratic Gold this year is that they'll cause us to lose money personally.

This of course, is my main "conservative" or even GOP leaning, the fact that they don't want to tax people to death. If they could only get the rest right.

But OK, OK, 1389, since you've bugged everyone so much, I'll add you to "cast of characters" at my new blog. Happy? I think I already have plenty of screenshots of your comments, so might as well.

1389 said...

Lex,

I didn't even know you had a blog about this. And I don't give a rat's patootie whether you put me on it or not, provided that you do not distort my statements or my point of view, violate my privacy, or make any untruthful or misleading statements.

And why on earth are you making screen shots of my comments? Don't you have a life?

You seem to be interested in insulting, jeering at, and making fun of everyone on all sides. This posturing lets you feel superior to everyone in your own mind. It also keeps you from feeling the need to take anything seriously.

If you ever did allow yourself to become aware of the dangers we all face, you would have to start thinking about what duties you might have to do something about it. That would make you very uncomfortable indeed.

I've got news for you. Life does not work that way. Your escape hatch is nothing but a blind alley, as you will find out when the situation deteriorates further.

Conservative Swede said...

Anthony,

As long as you adapt the principle "no friends to the right" you are bound to gravitate to the left. This is what brought down Charles Johnson. For me, and for us, it's not about agreeing with Dewinter's attitude, but to denounce the principle "no friends to the right".

This principle is the greatest victory of the left in our society, and is what always guaranteed them to end up victorious in all political conflicts, and cultural wars, for so many decades. For so many decades everything has gravitated strongly to the left. Have a look at the result and see if you like it. Do you want to do something about it?

It's of utmost importance that we denounce the principle "no friends to the right". And you should too, Anthony.

Left and right should be seen as symmetrical. Too far to the left or the right from my position I cannot accept. But the idea that anything one or two notches to the right of you must be vigorously denounced, is what keeps the left in power.

1389 said...

Conservative Swede,

That's a valid point - except for the fact that I don't consider genuine fascists, racists, and Nazis to be particularly conservative or right-wing. So many people can't seem to realize that there is a huge difference between loving one's country or people, and worshipping it. The former is a virtue; the latter is the sin of idolatry.

On a slightly different topic - just for laughs... the "Dan Rather" article, and a certain comment accompanying it, evidently hit home awfully hard.

The Chucklehead proved unable to defend himself, except by whining.

See the comment I left on Conservative Swede's blog for details.

No doubt, Lex will want to take screen shots of screen shots of screen shots of my comments...he must lead such an exciting life; I'm sure everyone is envious...

Anonymous said...

Has anyone here researched the antecedents of the European Green parties? Oyvind Strommen bragged at LGF that he was a Green. Does anyone realize that the Green Party was founded by a former member of the Baader-Meinhoff terror gang? And that the founder cooridinated terrorist activities with Carlos "The Jackal" Ramirez, the most notorious international Marxist terrorist of all time, who is now a convert to Radical Islam? Why doesn't the Green Party members have to defend themselves based on the unsavory activities of its own founders?

The Gunslinger said...

"Yes, the Vlaams Blok ... chooses our own people first ... And yes, the Vlaams Blok chooses a Flemish Flanders. And yes, the Vlaams Blok chooses a white Europe."

To see the above as "fascist" is leftwing lunacy. These critics have lost all perspective.

Surely a "White" Europe is not a wildly extraordinary concept. Sort of like saying a "Chinese" China.

I can understand disagreeing with someone who says it, but not vilifying them.

It may not be practical, but it is certainly not evil.

fnord said...

So, we can now safely say that the anti-jihad movement stands firmly behind Wilders and opposes LGF. Lets see, that means you want to ethnically cleanse Europe, ban the Quran, ban Islam, close down all mosques and create a "White Europe". And this is not fascism? lol. LGF holds up the mirror for you all to see what you have become, little Eichman wannabes, willing to exterminate groups for the sake of a higher good, the Nation.

Oh, and to the article: While Sverigedemokraterna are not fascistic in principle, several of their members support extreme rightwing groups. In 2008, anti fascists hacked the economic transactions of most of swedens major nazi-groups, and found monetary contributions from six of the parties chosen communal representatives. What is more, it is obvious to anyone watching that the SD is openly cooperating with several of the nazigroups, both in information exchange and in political groundwork.

Homophobic Horse said...

"So, we can now safely say that the anti-jihad movement stands firmly behind Wilders and opposes LGF. Lets see, that means you want to ethnically cleanse Europe, ban the Quran, ban Islam, close down all mosques and create a "White Europe". And this is not fascism? lol."

Do you think the alternative of not doing this is liberalism? Go back to school, or better yet, read GoV regularly:

Arab media says Europe will become Muslim continent in a few decades. Don't take our word for it.

"LGF holds up the mirror for you all to see what you have become, little Eichman wannabes, willing to exterminate groups for the sake of a higher good, the Nation."

If you want to see where your baseless bigotry ends up watch this: The Pictures that fooled the world.Remember those Nazi death camps in Yugoslavia? Those typical "Europeans" (Serbs) up to their old Nazi tricks again. Doesn't matter though, it's true in spirit.

The real genocide wannabes are in the European Union, that evil edifice fully committed to wiping out the nations of Europe, for the sake of the utopian future, and Israel as well as it happens.

Remember the Palestianian death mouse?

"The Taxpayers’ Alliance, an extremely useful and sensible body has recently produced a report on the subject. The report goes through the various ways British and EU taxpayers’ money makes its way to Hamas."

Go here."In 2008, anti fascists hacked the economic transactions of most of swedens major nazi-groups, and found monetary contributions from six of the parties chosen communal representatives. What is more, it is obvious to anyone watching that the SD is openly cooperating with several of the nazigroups, both in information exchange and in political groundwork."

The democratic opposition strikes again.

We have every moral right to defend the traditional and historical ethnic compositions of our countries from the cold jaws of these predators: The European Union, the multicultural project, Islam.

fnord said...

Fascinating. A homophobic european nationalist dreaming about a white europe and a war on a minority religion. What could possibly be called fascistic about that?

Homophobic Horse said...

Did you even look at those links?

"european nationalist"

Here writ large is the race bigotry of some modern Americans. Anxious to disavow their white supremacist past they scapegoat the old continent for their own wrongs and project into it their own anxieties. You think the termination point of where one kind of nationalism turns into another is precisely the point when it stops being "European" i.e. White.

Here are four nationalities: Serbia, Greece, Turkey, Armenia.

Two of those countries are not even European. Which ones?

Three of them all hold in common something crucial. What is it?

If you could correctly answer either question, and you can't, you will know how useless "european nationalism" (sic) is as an interpretative concept.

You're a mindless LGF insect. If GoV and LGF were countries which would be the free one?

Homophobic Horse explanation.

Don't even respond, just look at the links.

Here they are again:

Arab media says Europe will become Muslim continentThe Pictures that Fooled the World. The Serbian Auschwitz propaganda.

The real modern day AuschwitzCharles Johnson, the Dan Rather of the InternetEuropean Union funds terrorist groups as weapon against Israel

fnord said...

You're a mindless LGF insect.

lol, Im not even a member,and have never been. mOooh, censorship..