She declares herself strongly at the beginning of the first video:
Hello, my name is Ann Barnhardt, and I am apparently one of the very, very last people left in Western Civilization who possesses any quantity of brains and balls simultaneously.
And it gets even better after that. The second video shows her tearing out pages — bookmarked with strips of bacon — from the Koran, and burning them one by one.
I don’t always regard Koran-burning as an effective tactic, although I fully support anyone who decides to do it. However, in this case I heartily approve of Ms. Barnhardt’s actions, because she does the job properly: she reads a relevant verse from the page before tearing it out and consigning it to hellfire. The verses she recites include 4:34 (beating your wife), the Sword Surah, some of the “smite their necks” ayats, and all those promises of sweet young boys like clear pearls for the believers who make it to paradise.
This is great stuff. Both videos have been placed below the jump to outwit the Blogger bug:
Part 2
After watching this delightful young woman in action and listening to her excellent commentary, I was reminded of an old Robert Hunter lyric (from “Wild Bill”):
She was not just the girl of his dreams.
He was not only fond of her charms:
She could knock down a man at ninety paces
While he rolled her around in his arms.
Hat tip: Fausta.
225 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1 – 200 of 225 Newer› Newest»Bacon bookmarks? Sheer genius! If the majority of American women were cast in this mold, the entire Sex and Gender thread would not have been necessary. Nor would shari'a law have anything resembling the foothold in America that that it currently enjoys courtesy of lickspittle Islamic lapdogs like Graham.
To paraphrase Tom Clancy;
If she had 'em, they'd be big brass ones.
This gal has ovaries bigger than most guys' tackle. One can only hope that Senator Graham frequently finds himself being addressed as "jackass" as a reminder of this delightful woman's eloquent tirade.
The money quote:
If you want to pick a fight, sir. You go right ahead but understand that if you pick a fight with me the only way it ends is with you sobbing in the men's room.
This woman is a national treasure. I hope there is some way of inviting her to publish any essays she writes here at Gates of Vienna.
PS: Sarah Palin just found her running mate.
Even so, that's a waste of good bacon. I have some egg sammiches that could have used that bacon. Or maybe a good Breakfast Burrito...cooked me some of that.
Man, I'm hungry. I think I'll go to the IHOP and get me another one of those egg and ham sammiches.
"One can only hope that Senator Graham frequently finds himself being addressed as "jackass" as a reminder of this delightful woman's eloquent tirade." -Zenster
Ditto that. I've sent this out to everyone in my e-box and expect circulation will rapidly multiply - exponentially. Graham's stupidity will haunt him for the rest of his life.
In psychology there is a technique called "flooding" where the person or group is exposed to their "irrational fear", in this case seeing a Koran burnt, in frequency and intensity.
Flooding is a psychotherapeutic method for overcoming phobias. In order to demonstrate the irrationality of the fear a psychologist would put a person in a situation where they would face their phobia at its worst.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F...
I believe that this is what Jones, and now this lady, and the 1000s of others on youtube. are trying to do, but he just doesn't have the terminology. Unfortunately, only being exposed to the "phobia" (Koran burning) once or twice, can actually "increase" the phobic reaction. So, the best thing we can do for muslims right now is to "flood" the world with Koran burning to rid them of this ridiculous and irrational fear.
Blogger: So, the best thing we can do for muslims right now is to "flood" the world with Koran burning to rid them of this ridiculous and irrational fear.
Or induce mass aneurysms. Ridding Muslims of their "ridiculous and irrational fear" is like like teaching a pig to sing. It's a waste of your time and really annoys the pig.
I'm sticking with mass aneurysms.
If our free Civilization survives it will be because of people like Ann Barnhardt who take the time to read the Koran and then know its true worth.
Less.
Ness.
Quisling Graham and Quisling Petraeus need to be replaced with someone as strong as this regular American gal.
Wow, that's my American dream--the freedom of speech! Brave Woman!!
*Sniff*...
That was just beautiful.
What a woman !
I would ask her to marry me but I am not worthy !
This gorl has more guts and balls than any man I know, and I am a man.
Go girl, I got your back
Marry me...
Wow, Ann Barnhardt for president! How refreshing is this young woman's candor. America is still a great land with citizens such as her displaying such a courageous spirit. I am reminded of Ben Franklin who once said: "Those who would give up essential liberty [Lindsey Graham] to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither" God Bless America and Ann Barnhardt!
Jesus! Have you watched the last minute? She actually turns to the camera, gives her full address and says "come and get me".
Emily P. would have been proud. They did not suffer in vain.
We have had the Iron Curtain
We have had the Bamboo Curtain
Now it is time for the RUG Curtain.
America (and Europe) should finally say to all those ranting twerps - you don't want our help? Fine!
Then leave and take their humanitarian help (which frequently lands up in the hands of the terrorists or gets destroyed) and LEAVE.
ALL immigrants should be screened for ideological conviction - secularists are welcome - whatever religion they practise - as long as they realise that if they swear on the constitution and then work to overthrow said constitution - that would be treason.
Maybe we could do a final drop before leaving
100 million condoms.
I think the Senator has a point. At least he acknowledges that the USA is in a war, and he tacitly says it's a war against Islam.
During the 2nd World War, the British were careful to treat the German POWs well, not only because of our inate good manners, but also because the Brits knew that ill treatment to Germans would have been returned tenfold to British POWs.
@Anglichan
You are wrong, and should rewatch to get Ms Barnhardt's point.
Even though it is profoundly witty and cutting (Churchill loved it) in WWII Noel Coward's song, "Don't Let's Be Beastly To The Germans" was banned by the BBC.
Similarly one of the most humane and compassionate films you can ever see, The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp, was censored until after the war, because it showed a German character in a positive light.
In a war, being sensitive to the enemy's feelings is a path to certain defeat. That's her point. This is not the same as maltreating them physically, she makes this very clear too.
Check out her interview at IOTW.
"Declare war against the Caliphate, just like we did against the Third Reich. Same bloody thing. And I’m not kidding."
Whether one is 'mistreating' the enemy in a physical way or not, Islamists will consider any defilement of their religion as being, in a sense, ill treatment. That will put lives at risk. The book burning was just inflamatory.
Contrast that act with the way Wilders goes about his opposition. He doesn't just inflame opposition with 'cheap' shots. His attacks are on the nature of Islam and the need to curb immigration. If someone's life is going to be put at risk then it should be for a good reason.
BTW, I was not wrong.
Everybody, please email Ann Barnhardt at Ann@Barnhardt.biz.
Here is a link to her home page. I think all of us will be comforted by the photo that features prominently there.
This is the text that heads her home page:
Hello Everybody!
Posted by Ann Barnhardt - April 5, AD 2011 8:28 AM MST
Okay. QUICKLY, because it is all butts and elbows around here. I didn't get to bed until 4:00am this morning.
1. The two videos from Sunday have gone unber-pandemic viral. I am in the midst of my "15 minutes of fame". Don't worry - I will be forgotton by Friday morning.
2. Massive, massive support coming in through YouTube, email and telephone. THANK YOU. There is so much that I simply can not respond to all of it. It is incredible. I LOVE YOU ALL, BUT PLEASE DO NOT CALL ME ON THE PHONE DURING BUSINESS HOURS, AS I NEED TO KEEP MY LINES OPEN FOR MY CLIENTS. Just shoot me an email! :-) No threats as of yet, but I expect that to start today as the videos filter out of the Patriot Class and into the rest of the population.
Please, please, send her supportive emails at your earliest convenience.
Oh, and BTW again, Pierre. I think the woman in the video is very brave but she is probably only putting her own life at risk.
That 'Pastor Terry' has already provoked reactions in Pakistan against Christians, who are already extremely vulnerable to attack by Islamists. Those are the kind of people who really suffer for the actions of the pastor. Not me, probably not the pastor himself, and definitely not armchair warriors like you, Pierre.
Blogger Anglichan said...
Oh, and BTW again, Pierre. I think the woman in the video is very brave but she is probably only putting her own life at risk.
That 'Pastor Terry' has already provoked reactions in Pakistan against Christians, who are already extremely vulnerable to attack by Islamists. Those are the kind of people who really suffer for the actions of the pastor. Not me, probably not the pastor himself, and definitely not armchair warriors like you, Pierre.
4/05/2011 11:07 AM
She knows she is putting her life at risk and she knows she is not taking one more step backwards for a totally alien religion.
Unlike you of course who would not make a stand even to save your own life. Clearly your moral compass is pointing at your moral cowardise.
What she says is directly quoted from the book, things which you can only agree is abhorent, but you critisese her for speaking the truth about a book which you have obviously never read which only emphises your ignorance.
Go and save a duck or something,
Quoth the Episcoslamist Anglichan:
That 'Pastor Terry' has already provoked reactions in Pakistan against Christians, who are already extremely vulnerable to attack by Islamists. Those are the kind of people who really suffer for the actions of the pastor. Not me, probably not the pastor himself, and definitely not armchair warriors like you, Pierre.
Sorry to rain on your parade, pal, but Christians have been persecuted in Pakistan since the Muslims have been running out of Hindus to slaughter. We need to stand up and display fearlessness in the face of our feckless and cowardly 'leaders'. It's about time, too. Jones is the little kid who cried, The Emperor has no clothes. Let's see how they respond to a woman whose bookmarked her Koran with bacon....It should have been cooked, and then she should have eaten the bookmarks. That would have been a more delicious dessert for the smackdown of Lindsay "Jackass, I have a girl's name" Graham.
Defender, your spelling is awful.
And I wasn't being critical of the woman but only said the senator had a point.
Isn't that my right-to give my opinion? Isn't that what the USA first amendment is all about-freedom of speech? Or would you like to see me shot for being a coward AND for not going along with the lynch mob?
Anglichan: Whether one is 'mistreating' the enemy in a physical way or not, Islamists will consider any defilement of their religion as being, in a sense, ill treatment. That will put lives at risk. The book burning was just inflamatory.
You demonstrate such a complete lack of understanding about Islam that it endangers your life and that of others.
YOUR MERE EXISTENCE IS "INFLAMMATORY" TO MUSLIMS.
Capiche?
THE FACT THAT WE LIVE AND BREATH IS A "DEFILEMENT OF THEIR RELIGION". WHAT ABOUT THIS IS UNCLEAR?
Even if we did nothing at all, Islam would still attack us and seek to incorporate our lands into dal al Islam. This is clearly unknown to yourself and makes you an accomplice of Islam more than any defender of the West.
Jewel, you must be American. Talk about 'gung ho' cliches!
Wouldn't you just love to nuke 'em, Jewel?
Our response to the Islamic world after 911 should have been simple and direct: "Threaten or attack our civilization and yours is forfeit."
Back it up with thermonuclear dawn over Riyadh, Damascus and Tehran.
"Can you hear us now?"
Zenster, I know about Islam and I know there is a need to confront it. But I just don't think that burning the Qur'an is the right way to go about it.
Now, that's it for me, for today. The rest of you can scream into virtual reality to your hearts' content.
@Anglichan you write
"Those are the kind of people who really suffer for the actions of the pastor."
And here is the problem. The victims in Afghanistan do not suffer because of the actions of the pastor. (8000 miles away) They suffer solely and exclusively because of the murderous behaviour of Mohammedans. (who need only the slightest excuse to slit the throats of their fellow human beings)
Your sentiment is the height of idiocy and ignorance; even though it is widely held, that is no excuse.
Answer truthfully now, if not to me, then to your own conscience:
1) If, when in 2001 the Afghanis blew up the Buddhas of Bamiyan, Buddhists in Thailand would have descended in their droves on Muslims, hoisiting their decapitated heads into the skies; whom would you have blamed for the beahviour?
Whose "actions" would bear the culpability for the hypothetical deaths? The Buddhists or the Afghanis?
2) If, when the US army burnt scores of bibles in Afghanistan in 2009, an enraged Catholic had entered Fort Hood and machine-gunned dozens to death in reprisal, who would be to blame?
Who would have caused the suffering, the Catholic, or the US Army?
There is something profoundly screwed up about this perspective. What it does, essentially, is it dehumanises Muslims.
It is holding them to a lower standard of moral culpability. As I think someone else said here, it makes them the one group in the world deemed not to be fully responsible for their own actions, in the way every other human being is expected to be.
Your position is profoundly "racist", in a way. It treats the Muslim as a primitve. Someone less equipped with the capacity for free will, and autonomy, posessed by the rest of humanity.
And we must not antagonise these primitives. So much so that we must surrender our fundamnetal freedoms in order not to do so.
Well you surrender yours pal, your not having mine.
Anglichan: Zenster, I know about Islam and I know there is a need to confront it.
You can also say that you know the sky is colored fluorescent yellow with purple polka dots but it doesn't qualify as true.
What you suggest is giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Period.
Try going back in time to 1943 and suggesting that "Mein Kampf" should not have been used for toilet tissue during the paper shortages of World War II. Verbal responses would likely have been the least of your worries.
But I just don't think that burning the Qur'an is the right way to go about it.
Think whatever you want but you, especially being a woman, come across as a seriously deluded and suicidal appeaser of Islam. As a female, Islam is your mortal enemy and always has been.
Sane people do not make pacts to cohabit with scorpions.
From the link provided by Joan of Argghh!: Check out her interview at IOTW.
Another on-the-money quote:
iOTW- What do you think of General Petreus and his assertion that inciting Islam puts our soldiers in harm’s way?
Ann – I have an offer for General Petreus. I’ll GIVE him one of my balls. Then I’d still have two, and he would have one. He is a politicking coward who cares only about his pension and cashing in on his rank after he retires. The suicidal, defeatist Rules of Engagement he oversees are the unequivocal proof of that. He should resign in disgrace – yesterday, and then present himself to each and every family of our war dead and BEG their forgiveness for failing in his duty as their son or daughter’s commanding officer. [emphasis added]
I swear, this gal must ovulate .45 ACP rounds.
Pierre_Picaud: Jesus! Have you watched the last minute? She actually turns to the camera, gives her full address and says "come and get me".
When she says "come and get me", she means it.
Pierre_Picaud: Your position is profoundly "racist", in a way. It treats the Muslim as a primitve. Someone less equipped with the capacity for free will, and autonomy, posessed by the rest of humanity.
Bravo, sir! You correctly identify and denouce the typically bigoted infantilizing that Islam's appeasers so readily indulge in. Great comment, all of it.
Baron
Here is Ann Barnhardt´s site
http://barnhardt.biz/.
Here is a cooment by her:
“4. There are a LOT of emails of concern for my safety. Yes, I knew EXACTLY what I was doing going in to this, and I am HONORED to lead you into this battle. But if you REALLY want to help me, here is what you can do. Go out, buy a koran, video yourself burning it and post that on YouTube. Do it NOW. Show the muslims how utterly futile it would be to kill me. I am delighted to lead from the front, but the only way this works is if you wonderful patriots BACK ME UP. One man storming the beach at Normandy would have been meaningless machine gun fodder. But the First Army U.S. and the Second Army U.K. storming the beach constituted a decisively victorious force. Oooh-Rah! ”
Paulo
Interesting programme on BBC radio 5 this morning (Tue 5th April) about Islam and does it get a 'fair deal' - there will be a link on the BBC website for anyone that's interested.
Why is it that women are having to do the heavy lifting when it comes to eradicating the infestation of the practitioners of the Doctrine of Satan?
Men, we need to step forward!
My wife will just have to understand...
Although I appreciate her spunk and do not appreciated Senator Graham, I encourage us all to acknowledge that the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution does not give any person the right to yell FIRE! in a crowded theater.
The lady in question poses for a photo here.
I warn you gentlemen, it might endanger your marriages.
Zenster I think you might be right!
I am going out to get a Qur'an to burn. Look for it on UTube in the next few days.
And you all should too. If enough people do this it will dis-credit mohammed. Thats when normal muslams will stop being afraid and do what I feel they have wanted to do for a long time. Convert to another religion.
Plus it sends the message to our bleeding heart government that we are aware of the fact that we still have that freedom of speech. Cause I think they sometimes forget.
Do it for your country.
Your Constitutional Right to freedom of speech...............Use it or lose it.
I understand the sentiment on both sides.
However, there is nothing better to insite the rage of one's enemies than making a martyr out of their holy book.
Christians don't go on murderous rampages when someone burns a Bible, but Islamists do.
We just need to be really clear on the consequences of our actions.
Jring7 said...
Although I appreciate her spunk and do not appreciated Senator Graham, I encourage us all to acknowledge that the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution does not give any person the right to yell FIRE! in a crowded theater.
The Koran is not a theater, except of the absurd.
Muslims are on fire, but no because of anything but the malignant contents of the terroristic Koran.
Otherwise, spot on analogy.
/s
What about the consequences of inaction? Just look to Europe for that.
Anglichan, you didn't read my statement. I quoted YOU, silly. I then pointed out the simple fact that Muslims have been slaughtering Christians for a very long time, irrespective of what we do in the west. Furthermore, I never said anything one way or another about nuking anyone. I don't want a nuclear war in the middle east or anywhere.
If anything, we are in a deeply spiritual war. On one side we are beset by the multicultural suicidal progressives who won't defend their civilization, and on the other we have dedicated jihadists whose sole aim is total world conquest, and they have made that plainly known.
My belief is that you are going to have to stand for what you love and believe in, now, because we will be leaving it to our children for later. This is immoral.
As for weapons of war, I prefer this prayer:
In the Name of Christ Jesus, son of the living God, the Beginning and the End, The Word made flesh, forgive them. Forgive them utterly, and turn them to You, that they may be saved. Hear them in their time of sorest need and desperation and cleanse them from their sins. Renew their minds, that they may repudiate this false god and his evil, false prophet, as you have in the past, and as you are doing in the present, Amen.
See my furious reply to Lawrence Auster's ridiculous and reprehensible condemnation of Ann Barnhardt's use of bacon in her Koran protest as "disgusting" and as a "gratuitous and vulgar insult to Muslims".
There is no insult imaginable that would be inappropriate for Muslims. Not one. The fouler, cruder, and more vulgar and disgusting, the better. There is nothing we could possibly say or do that could come a million miles to the vicinity of the grotesquely ghoulish, Satanically vile putror that is Islam and is the heart, mind and soul of every Muslim who enables Islam. Shame on Auster for being such a pusillanimous pussy.
Jring7: … I encourage us all to acknowledge that the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution does not give any person the right to yell FIRE! in a crowded theater.
Yours is a piss poor example of valid restrictions upon Free Speech.
IN THIS CASE THE THEATER IS ON FIRE!
Ann Barnhardt is sounding the alarm in a time of war and her clarion call to arms could not come a moment too soon.
Your desire to pervert common law so that it shields Muslim sedition is duly noted. Feel free to join Anglichan in the ranks of appeasers.
Lawrence: I understand the sentiment on both sides.
Quite clearly you do not.
However, there is nothing better to insite [sic] the rage of one's enemies than making a martyr out of their holy book.
Yo, Larry! YOU CAN'T "MARTYR" A BOOK!"
Capiche? Only living people can be martyred. Got it?
The fact that you even mention martyrdom in connection with anything Islamic is offensive in the extreme and I'm not even a Christian.
Islam makes a complete and total mockery of "martyrdom" by exalting those who commit mass murder. The Christian martyrs gave up their lives rather than renounce their faith.
The yawning gulf that divided these two definitions of "martyr" should be apparent, even to you. That you have even attempted such a pathetic ruse as to suggest that a book can be "martyred" demonstrates just how useless your argument is.
Christians don't go on murderous rampages when someone burns a Bible, but Islamists do.
If you actually read through this entire thread plus its comments, you would have known better than to make such a specious argument.
Pierre_Picaud already noted this with respect to Anglichan making, by and large, the exact same fallacious argument.
Like her, you are:
… holding them to a lower standard of moral culpability. As I think someone else said here, it makes them the one group in the world deemed not to be fully responsible for their own actions, in the way every other human being is expected to be.
Your position is profoundly "racist", in a way. It treats the Muslim as a primitive. Someone less equipped with the capacity for free will, and autonomy, possessed by the rest of humanity.
You have exposed yourself as a similar racist and I invite you to disprove this claim.
It's long past tea to tell the entire Muslim world to grow up and stop being skinless people in a sandpaper world.
We just need to be really clear on the consequences of our actions.
On this we agree. One can only hope that you will some day realize just how asinine it is to appease Islam by even a hair's breadth.
If "Christians don't go on murderous rampages when someone burns a Bible…", then why should Muslims be given a pass for doing so?
Your towering hypocrisy is simply phenomenal. By your lights, Christians have every right to riot and murder when Muslims burn or deface the Bible. Yet, here you are cowering and cringing when a brave woman defiantly uses bacon to bookmark a piece of totalitarian filth more commonly known as the Qur'an.
If fact, as a woman, Ann Barnhardt has more than the average right to take umbrage at Islam's institutionalized policy of Abject Gender Apartheid.
I'm hoping that the Baron will open a separate thread where you will be invited to defend your position in depth. All the better to understand how someone in such an influential position within the counterjihad can be so totally wrongheaded.
Hesperado: There is no insult imaginable that would be inappropriate for Muslims. Not one. The fouler, cruder, and more vulgar and disgusting, the better.
As the sun-like object veers towards its noontime zenith the stopped clock and I, once again, find ourselves in agreement.
Prior to the 9-11 atrocity, I might have had some reservations about being blatantly offensive towards Muslims.
After watching endless videos of fully loaded passenger jets being flown into occupied skyscrapers, I no longer have anything but the most withering scorn for Muslims and Islam alike.
I urge all readers to visit Ann Barnhardt's web site (scroll down about one third of the way - just past the Allen West video), and read her two part essay, "The Problem is Islam". In a short page or two, she makes clear why this scourge upon civilization can no longer be tolerated. An excerpt:
Let me say that again so that there is absolutely no confusion. The problem is islam. So long as islam exists on earth, there will be no peace, and there will be no freedom for those trapped inside of it. So long as islam exists, it will continue to stir up violence, aggression, war, terrorism, instability, injustice, human slavery, hopelessness, suffering, despair and unnatural, needless death. Why? BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED TO DO. All of those qualities are intrinsic, constitutive qualities of islam.
How much more clearly would you like it put? This wonderful woman minces no words and takes no prisoners. Sigh!
2016 Ticket:
Allen West, President
Ben Stein, Vice-President
Ann Barnhardt, Secretary of State
Tom Tancredo, Secretary of Defense
Robert Spencer, Anti-Islam Czar (even though on his desk he will have a plaque that reads "I am not anti-Islam")
Hugh Fitzgerald, Poet Laureate
Michael Savage, Press Secretary
Two points. Firstly recall that an EDL leader tore up a flag at one of the demonstrations some months back. This was Mo's battle flag. Would it not be proper to bacon-burn it? Since the raging mobs destroy poppies and burn western national flags, it does seem appropriate.
Also, do Mahoundians believe that the koran is an actual embodiment of their god Allah? I.e. that the book is really more idol than tome?
"do Mahoundians believe that the koran is an actual embodiment of their god Allah? I.e. that the book is really more idol than tome?"
Essentially, yes. They believe that the words of the Koran are the eternal thoughts of Allah and as such ontologically partake of his nature. The actual physical Korans in the world are as real a presence of Allah as is the bread and wine considered by Catholics to be the actual, and not "merely symbolic", body and blood of Jesus.
That's my understanding of it. If anyone has any evidence to the contrary, I'd be interested to see it.
Terry jones and now Ann (and 1000s others on youtube) have broken a TABOO, and I applaud them for it! Like she said: it's just paper and ink, we are not burning a "work" but a "copy". We live in a post Gutenburg society with mass production.
I want to burn a Koran as well in the next couple of days and post to youtube. The only thing that is holding me back is that I want to go to Dubai for a stopover on my way to Europe, as this is the least 'jet-lag' method of getting to Europe from Oz, and if I film my face they might arrest me in Dubai. Would it still be effective if I wore sunglasses and gave a false name?
Secondly, I am wondering if I should burn a bible with it. I am a church going Christian, but am completely against superstition, and want to show this, ie by burning both books NOTHING is going to happen. You can't burn love and you can't burn truth, and you can't burn ethics. Also, in case I get arrested by the Australian police for "inciting hatred against muslims", there will be great cognitive dissonence if I have burnt 'both' books!
What do you think?
@Lawrence (and to a certain extent @Hesperado) you write
"We just need to be really clear on the consequences of our actions."
This is actually quite wrong. Because it is not our actions that are the causal agent here. Really. Not at any level.
Read this dispatch from Afghanistan. I'll quote the relevant section:
'One of the stranger and more ironic by-products of the Florida Quran-burning incident has been the destruction by fire of many Qurans — several dozen, according to local estimates — in the violence and rage sweeping Kandahar.
...
In two days of carnage, mobs have torched schools, shops, Internet cafes, many of which carry a copy of the Quran as a matter of course.
“Some crazy guy in Florida burns one Quran and here in Kandahar we burn hundreds,” said one disturbed Kandahar resident. “This is not the Islamic way.” '
You see what we actually have to be clear about is Islam.
Just think for a second. How is this possible? Why are there not riots in Saudi now, about the desecration against the Koran being committed in Kandahar?
Because what matters in the Koran burning is not the action. Not what is being done. But who is doing it. And the fury, is because it is being done by a kafir.
Mark Durie is always excellent at pointing out that religions are not the same, and Islam has been particularly good in pretending in the West that it shares the same conceptual framework as other religions. But it does not.
We must not make the mistake of thinking that Islam has the same idea of holiness and sanctity of objects, as other religions do.
The problem is not that these burnings are acts of defilement and blasphemy, it is because they are actions of disrespect. This is why the reaction is not universal sadness, but selective rage.
The kufar are refusing to behave as the Islamic worldview commands.
They are not fulfilling their allotted role of submissive subservience towards Islam. And of due deference and respect to their religious text.
It is not that a kuffar burning a Koran is committing a bigoted act of sacrilege in the Islamic mind, it is instead, the equivalent of a slave rising up and spiting in his master's eye.
They are not showing the deference to Islam that Islam demands that they do.
This is why Ms Barnhardt must be applauded without equivocation.
She is saying: No, I refuse to have my free speech and expression governed by your theological conception of who I should be and how I should act.
I will not respect your book that says you may kill my husband because he is an infidel, and then rape me... sorry... I mean, take me into concubinage.
And this is what I think of your demand that I do... burn, baby burn.
Blogger..Don't burn anything,unless you're a smoker,we'll take up the slack for ya..
Blogger said...
What do you think?
4/05/2011 9:37 PM
Since merely burning the Koran may become passe soon enough, here's a suggestion to "take it to the next level".
Before filming:
Completely soak a Koran in water so that it WILL NOT BURN.
FADE IN- to show a CLOSE UP of the Koran on an Hibachi grill (or reasonable facsimile) with the VOICE OVER:
"I am now going to burn this Koran."
SOUND: of match being struck.
A hand, with the lit match, comes into frame and touches it to the book. WHICH WILL NOT CATCH FIRE.
The match is held until it burns down to the fingers in the frame and the match holder goes: "YEOW!"
and shakes out the flame.
Then tries another match, with the same fizzled result, to the annoyed GRUMBLING off-screen of: "WHAT THE HELL?!?"
The THIRD MATCH fails to do more than its predecessors, and the person trying to ignite the book then says to themself:
"Nuts! I guess I shouldn't have soaked the Koran in pig urine first!"
FADE TO BLACK.
____________________________
It's time to add some mockery and humor to this absurd situation.
Deep-fry the pedophile's ravings in lard.
Blogger, cover your face with a mask or scarf.
Personally I would use a mask like that from the Quiet Riot videos or one of those scary looking hockey masks.
I too plan to burn a quran very soon on my next rib cookout (in the next week or so). Even though my job is not high profile, I don't want unforseen consequences. Given our current President, who is to say we won't get "blasphemy laws" as a result of Quran burnings.
Blogger: … I am wondering if I should burn a bible with it … You can't burn love and you can't burn truth, and you can't burn ethics.
I think there is much merit to your idea. If only for the thought experiment that it would pose to the Muslim world. (Did I really just say that? Muslims … thought experiment … what was I thinking?)
Also, in case I get arrested by the Australian police for "inciting hatred against muslims", there will be great cognitive dissonance if I have burnt 'both' books!
If anything, "hedging" your bet in such a fashion makes a lot of sense.
Blogger, as a church-going christian, I disagree with burning a bible. It's not the bible that's at issue, and plenty of those have been defaced over the years.
We're long past comparative religion studies.
Just burn your quran and make sure you bring the marshmallows.
Pierre_Picaud: “Some crazy guy in Florida burns one Quran and here in Kandahar we burn hundreds,” said one disturbed Kandahar resident. “This is not the Islamic way.”
Average cost of a Qur'an = $5.00
Cost of Afghan campaign = $1,000,000,000
Afghans torching hundreds of qur'ans during protests over a Pastor burning a single copy = PRICELESS
Because what matters in the Koran burning is not the action. Not what is being done. But who is doing it. And the fury, is because it is being done by a kafir.
Le bingo.
A Muslim could wipe his arse with one page of a Qur'an, blow his nose on another, use the next to blot up his spilled beer, fold the entire following chapter to level his cooker, then the burn rest for kindling and the Islamic world would scarcely break wind over it.
It is only the audacity of us filthy kafir to get up on our hind legs that rankles so with the Perpetually Offended™.
The lady with the brass balls makes loud noises, and burns the Qur'an.
Serious patriots read it, to determine why these fanatics strap bombs on their women and kids..and fly hijacked planes into buildings.
Half of the American public is unaware that we have been at war with these boneheads for the past 32 years. Imagine that!
We have the military power to confront them, and to quickly defeat them now, but we lack the political leadership, and that's the bottom line.
reb
___ ___
Thanks for your feedback about my intention to burn a Koran. One more question. If I wear sunglasses or a scarf etc, what should I tell my audience about why I'm hiding my identity? I dont' want them to think I'm hiding because I'm intimidated. I simply want to go to Dubai on holidays!! But I can't give that bit away or they might wait for me at Dubai airport!
Going to Dubai on holiday is like going to Cologne to attend Mozart concerts in 1942.
LOL Hesperado. They have an amazing indoor ski centre, so it is my dream to ski in the morning and swim at the beach in the afternoon. Then go 4WD'ing over the dunes for dinner in a bedouin tent.
BTW, I really enjoyed what you have written in this thread and am writing script for my video, using some of your points. thanks!
Pierre_Picaud I also enjoyed what you wrote in this thread and am using some of your points in my script. thanks!
I am amazed that the clip attracted less than 30000 viewers. Hasn't it gone viral yet?
I am afraid YouTube will take it down: has the clip been uploaded elsewhere too? (Baron?)
I trust real men in Colorado know what to do: organize for the safety of this heroine.
She combines the spirit and spine of Wafa Sultan, Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Natascha Kampusch.
(I second imnokuffars remark)
Having a disagreement with another about Anne beng the perfect match for Michelle Bachmann's presidential run.......as VP. I say make her Attorney General. VP
usually comes with a middle name of 'USLELESS" as in Joe BIden.........
ANNE IS NOT 'USELESS'....in any way shape or form.
She is my new HEROINE!
Frans Groenendijk --
I am afraid YouTube will take it down: has the clip been uploaded elsewhere too? (Baron?)
Without giving specifics, I know that the videos have been downloaded by a dedicated video person and are ready to upload onto another, less vulnerable platform. I feel certain that many other people have done the same thing. That's the way it always happens with viral videos.
By the way -- the increase to more than 20,000 views within less than 48 hours shows it is a viral process. It's a slower increase than some viral videos display (such as the ones that Drudge links to), but viral nonetheless.
To my distress I have not been able to view the video. When the buffering process is complete, as indicated by the red line at the bottom, I hit replay, and the whole buffering process simply starts over from 0.00. This has never happened before with any youtube video. I wonder if others are having this problem.
Just tweeted this article (@rae4palin)
Blogger
Whether or not you show your face is unimportant as the act itself. For many reasons including personal safety and safety of our families its probably not wise to show the face. I commend Ann for showing her face and displaying address but its not necessary either.
Since you will be vacationing in a muslim country it would not be wise to show face or address. Just go incognito and that will be enough :)
Lawrence Auster writes in a comment to his own article about Ann Barnhardt (which had linked to this GOV article):
I find that GoV thread discouraging. The commenters come across like a low level mob. Such is the world of unmoderated comment forums.
First, GOV comments aren't "unmoderated" -- I've seen Baron remove posts rather often for vulgar language.
Second, I've read these comments here and I see no evidence of a "low level mob"; a few light-hearted and spirited asides, perhaps, but nothing remotely like a "low level mob". Yet again, we see Auster's typical penchant for hyperbole (as, for example, when he designates nearly any criticism of his ideas as an "attack"). There is something profoundly feminine about Auster in his habitual use of hyperbole.
I'm happy to note, however, that among the 16 commenters Auster allows through his preciously guarded filter, four of them disagree with his asinine condemnation of Barnhardt's use of bacon. And here's one of them who writes a spirited defense of that use and the more general principles involved:
I disagree with you criticism of Ann Barnhardt's use of bacon. As she clearly states, we are at war, and we should use every tool available when fighting a war against an opponent. Back to the old adage; make war so horrible that your opponent loses the will to fight. In spite of the fact that Islam's hate of Western Cultures and Religions, or that said hate has been going on since the days of Muhammad, we should not equivocate, or weaken ourselves to play the role of the better. If we truly acknowledge this is a war, then we must also determine a strategy as to how we will fight it and what tools we will use to win. We must also define the type of war in which we choose to engage. If we choose a philosophical war then, a fantasy in which a bloodless battle will be raged, then we can engage the enemy with wit and debate, but we will lose. If we are honest and admit that Islam is a violent and backwards culture, that they kill, rape, hate Westerners, Christians and Jews; then we have to respond with violence that makes their attacks pale by comparison. We have to be dirty, underhanded, deceptive, and yes, we must match violence with violence that will be spoken of around campfires for many future Islamic generations.
[continued next post]
[continued from previous]
I am sick and tired of hearing the PC holier than though mantra that we should not lower ourselves to their level. Poopstick, look at what playing the morally superior has gotten us. We now have a mosque in Sandy Utah at 9000th south and just east of the Interstate beside the old Lowes hardware store, with plans of building a super Mosque just south of that location. I am not LDS (Mormon), but have lived here for 19 years, understand and appreciate their influence, but even the Mormon's have laid down and taken a back seat to Islam. By last count, there are eight mosques in the heart of the Mormon foundational valley (Salt Lake City and the Wasatch Front).
This is not only about survival of Western cultures, but as an American I am so selfish to admit that it is about our survival as a once sovereign nation. Islam is not a religion, it is a political philosophy, and is not protected by US Law. We have to stand up, we must irritate and further enrage Islam to establish the rules of the engagement. If we remain passively and apologetically by, we will continue to be overrun and undone by a people who have a generational desire to destroy America and Western Civilization.
And here is Auster's reply:
"First, you sound overwrought. And overwrought people don't win wars."
Something is seriously wrong with Auster's mind. It wouldn't be so bad if he was a run-of-the-mill asymptotic who prates on about how "Islam is not the problem" and how "it's only a minority of extremists twisting Islam that is the problem" -- but by contrast he otherwise pushes the limit of anti-Islam rhetoric more strongly than most in the anti-Islam movement. This makes his lapses, like this one, all the more bizarre and mentally disturbing. How can someone who otherwise seems to understand the nature and dimensions of this unique enemy then turn around and lecture people on restraint against that uniquely grotesque, ghoulish, fanatical, obsessively expansionist, delusionally supremacist, inveterately hateful, utterly irremediable, wickedly mendacious, pathologically devious, demonically inhumane, and Satanically ultra-violent enemy?
Hesperado --
I can't help but agree. Y'all can certainly get a little rowdy and contentious, but hardly a "mob". If Mr. Auster wants know what a real blog-mob looks like, he should check the comments at Hot Air or Ace of Spades.
No, GoV people are more like a crowd at a pub who have maybe had a few too many and are yelling at each other across the tables, all at the same time and talking at cross-purposes.
In a war, inspiring your own is at least as important as demoralizing your enemy.
Even if this video does not do the latter, it certainly does the former.
There's another perspective to add to this.
Some people say that burning Korans is bound to irritate the enemy and make him retaliate. Well, yes. That's what people do during wars.
Do you acknowledge this is a war ?
Do you want to win it ?
If yes, then what's the problem ? When insurgents shot Nazi officers in occupied France, they knew damn well that hostages would suffer. Did they refrain from hurting the Nazis ? Of course not.
Frans Groennendijk -
Don't you worry man, a lot of likeminded people have got the clip by now. Besides, what should go viral is the clip, sure enough, but even more important, the example set by this courageous and above all truthful American woman. Her other vid, about the terror of "being nice", is also straight to the point. I'd say that, at least for me, she really is the one and true First Lady of America.
Hesperado -
Glad to see you taking Mr. Auster to task for his truly bizarre remarks on swine bookmarks and this GoV comment thread.
Robert Marchenoir -
I still remember some of your rather ehm.. optimistic assertions about mixed marriages in France ;-)
This time you are spot on.
Kind regs from Amsterdam,
Sag.
Btw, I see a presidential ticket before me (allow for some daydreaming): this fine Iron Lady, assisted by Lt. Colonel Allen West as her running mate. In an ideal world, they'd run independent from the republicrat cabal, presenting America with a genuine chance to vote for something else besides the Stupid and the Evil party.
Sag.
Hesperado: (per commenter at Auster's blog) I disagree with you criticism of Ann Barnhardt's use of bacon. As she clearly states, we are at war, and we should use every tool available when fighting a war against an opponent. Back to the old adage; make war so horrible that your opponent loses the will to fight. [emphasis added]
This is something I have maintained for decades. War long ago stopped being a gentleman's sport with temporary ceasefires to permit gathering of the wounded and such.
Since its inception, Islam has used the tactic of demoralizing its foes through the use of ultra-violence. It is also a given that Islam must be repaid in its own coin. Anyone who doubts this demonstrates a dim comprehension of Muslim culture.
While I was still a teenager it seemed obvious to me that America should field conventional weapons of such horrific and agonizing prospect that, with our arrival at the battlefield, any enemies would soil themselves in their rush to flee us. A fine example of this is the Army's CCLAW (Close Combat Laser Assault Weapon):
Within the next decade [1960s - 1970s] we had fully characterized and optimized the chemical laser for scale up to an army mobile [10 kilowatt gas phase hydrogen fluorine laser] weapon system. One major problem we were unable to solve was getting lethal power onto a mobile vehicle. We were, however, able to propose a mobile broad beam laser battlefield weapon that could destroy battlefield and missile sensors. It would also burn out the eyeballs of enemy foot soldiers.
Dr. Wharton presented our mobile battlefield laser concept (including supporting design data) to several layers of army brass. He was surprised to learn that it was turned down. The weapon was quite feasible, with a solid development schedule. Amazingly, the generals turned it down on the basis that it was too cruel to use in battle, because it would burn out foot soldiers eyes. Apparently, they considered it to be in the same weapon class as poison gas. [emphasis added]
Islam lops off the opposing hand and foot of its captive enemy soldiers. The RIGHT hand, mind you, which is tantamount to a slow and grueling death sentence in Muslim countries. By comparison, blinding someone seems almost humane.
In fact, the subject of this thread has posted at her web site another highly informative video dealing with this exact subject. Ann Barnhardt, with her usual panache and competence, demolishes the entire overly-exalted notion of being "nice".
Pay close attention, Hesperado, as you are not the only one who is onto the West's suicidally altruist tolerance of the intolerable. Barhhardt finds this modern perversion just as abhorrent as I do. A money quote from the video:
Video time point 07:23 ― "In our culture, niceness has been elevated to the cardinal virtue. As we now know [from prior etymological definition], "niceness" is really "ignorance and foolishness". So what this means is that ignorance and foolishness are now considered moral virtues and knowledge and reason are considered vices. One need look no further than the inner city to see confirmation of this. Anyone who utilizes facts, logical arguments, objective evidence or, God forbid, common sense is cast as an intolerant, bigoted, hateful and, even in a sense, a subhuman person.
Be sure to pay close attention at video time point 03:24 when she talks about words and meaning. Her disquisition on the etymological origins of the word "nice" is both elegant and informative.
Those who are not Christians should avoid being put off by Barnhardt's scriptural references. They are often to the point and rarely detract from or derail the gist of her larger topics.
Ann, thank you. You have the courage to say what many, many of us believe. Islam is an evil cult and it is about time politicians stood up against the evils of shariah.
My God bless you and keep you.
Zenster -
I'd like to second your closing statements and it's good to see the link to her "nice" video that I didn't provide (subconscious fear of the infamous Blogger-bug no doubt).
The best way to show this lady that she doesn't stand alone - as she apparently and justifiably thinks now, is to follow her lead, don't you think?
Like I said, more important than her own video her example should go viral, but for that, it would be nice to get some practical info online how to do it without necessarily following her all the way to disclosing personal information.
Therefore, if anyone knowledgeable in the field could provide some useful tips as to how to create and post a truly anonymous vid on YT, that would be very helpful. One needn't be explicit in encouraging people to do exactly what Mrs. Barnhardt did, only provide info how to anonymously create a YT account and post a creative vid (dogs reading and consuming Koran, Cookie Monster eating unsavoury passages, which means practically everything).
I imagine something like an anonymous mail-account would be needed, so here's some info to that goal. I'm not entirely sure though, that would be enough. Maybe some experts could join in.
Kind regs from Amsterdam,
Sag.
Kind regs from Amsterdam,
Sag.
Wow
The Intensity, the Moral Outrage.... is Beautiful. If our leaders had a quarter of her guts, the enemy would be over. Thanks for posting it. And as you note, she distinguished herself here in reading the verses before burning the pages, because I'd rather Americans read the Koran than burn it, but she did both. We need to arm ourselves with the knowledge of exactly what it is we're facing, because we haven't even begun to fight back.
Ann Barnhardt,
I hope to God Almighty in heaven that He keeps you safe from not only lousy Mooslims who desperately want to come to your house and rape you and behead you but the morons in Congress who side with those scum. I hate Mooslims as you do. God bless you Ann.
Oh, and phuque Obama.
g
Did I do that?
--Steve Urkel
Did I do that?
--President Hussein Urkel
I hate white people.
--President Hussein Urkel
Ann,
General Black Jack Pershing was born September 13th, 1860 near Laclede, MS, he died July 15th, 1948 in Washington, D.C.
Highlights include:
1891 Prof. of Military Science and Tactics University of Nebraska
1998 Serves Spanish-American War
1901 Rank of Captain
1906 Rank Brigadier General
1909 Military Governor of Moro Province, Philippines
1916 Rank Major General
1919 Rank General of the Armies - 5 star general
1921 Appointed Chief of Staff
1924 Retires from active duty education West Point.
Just before WWI, there were a number of terrorist attacks on the U.S. forces in the Philippines by Mooslim extremists. So General Pershing captured 50 terrorists and had them tied to posts for execution. He then had his men gring in two pigs and slaughter them in front of the now horrified terrorists. Mooslims detest port because they believe pigs are filthy animals. Some of them simply refuse to eat it, while others won't even touch pigs at all, nor any of their by-products. To them, eating or touching a pig, its meat, its blood, etcetera is to be instantly barred from paradise (and those virgins) and doomed to hell. The solders then soaked their bullets in the pigs blood and proceeded to execute 49 of the terrorists by firing squad. The soldier then dug a big hole, dumped in the terrorists' bodies and covered them in pig blood, entrails etcetera. They let the 50th man go. And for the next 42 years there was not a single Mooslim extremist attack anywhere in the entire world.
@Lawrence, @Hesperado, @Zenster et al
Just thought I would share this hadith on the subject, under discussion. As I said it is not the action, but that it is a kafir that is doing it.
"“Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied,
and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in
fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt.” -- Sahih al-Bukhari 6.61.510
QED
Your YouTube embeds aren't showing up at this time.
Here are the links:
Barnhardt-Graham-Part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qeyrp-V3Jvc
Barnhardt-Graham-Part2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LCLDjPNpf4
I loved the vid, especially the bacon bookmarks. I laughed out loud every time she removed a bookmark.
Now I have some constructive criticism. She made the usual strategic error of gratuitously insulting gays by referring to the worst of them (pedophiles), as if they represented the majority of gays. This makes her look like a hick. My late mother was from the south and had a slight accent, so I'm not prejudiced, I'm saying it was some of her content that would make some people write her off as a hick. Gratuitous, out of context and factually inaccurate gay bashing is a marker for hickness.
BTW, if anyone knows Ann, please tell her that Piss Christ was by Andres Serrano, not Mapplethorpe. The latter was a good Catholic boy. I don't think he would have done that type of art. Mapplethorpe is known for his explicit S&M gay photographs, of which I've only seen a few, because I'm squeamish, but at least I know who he was, which Ann doesn't.
This doesn't diminish the wonderfulness of her video, I hope my comment will be received as constructive criticism.
On a related note, if American politicians are thinking of outlawing koran-burning, why not be creative. It's harder to outlaw using the koran as kitty litter and then compost, or any number of other things. It would be incredibly difficult for lawmakers to craft such an inclusive law. So, I propose that people expand the koran-burning meme to, one hundred things you can do with a koran. I'm thinking of doing a kitty litter vid, but I don't even own a koran yet.
Brilliant, well done Ann, I only wish she had a skillet and used the pgs of the Koran as kindling to cook the bacon!
if anyone knowledgeable in the field could provide some useful tips as to how to create and post a truly anonymous vid
How about someone with some computer knowledge create a facebook page where everyone can post a koran burning video?
Lord Jesus, I love this woman!
Blogger -
You wrote:
"How about someone with some computer knowledge create a facebook page where everyone can post a koran burning video?"
An obvious improvement already, functioning as kind of an assembly room and a tribute to this daring and principled defender of the West. Perhaps it could be dedicated to the true First Lady of the US, or something akin. I would strongly recommend her method to "burn after reading". People should know exactly why this book - which represents Islam's "license to kill" for all practising Muslims, is evil.
Since I'm no expert, my question remains though: is it somehow possible for people to make sure their contributions on such a Facebook group aren't traceable to their IP numbers or anything? As with YouTube, I would imagine an anonymous email account is a prerequisite for something like an anonymous Facebook ID, true? But would that be enough, I wonder. I hope someone with expert knowledge can provide more clarity on this issue.
Kind regs from Amsterdam,
Sag.
Sagunto: People should know exactly why this book [the Qur'an] - which represents Islam's "license to kill" for all practising Muslims, is evil.
"License to kill". Now there's an excellent meme! I don't know why I didn't think of it myself. Good job, Sagunto.
This lady needs protection!
I appreciate her willingness to lay down her life for her belief, but I want her alive and well and outspoken for a long time to come.
If there's one thing the history of islam has taught me, it is that they have no qualms about murdering people that anger them and it is enough that one of these islamic 'leaders' gets peeved for her to adorn a hit list.
I know humanity is on islams hit list anyway, but she is one of the very few who deserve protection and encouragement for her sake and for the sake of the message of the truth she so eloquently posted.
Praise God!
One more thing people;
The whole idea of following her lead is NOT to do it anonymously.
To paraphrase it:
Don't be ashamed of the Truth so the author of the Truth wont be ashamed of you.
"How about someone with some computer knowledge create a facebook page where everyone can post a koran burning video?"
Call it Defacebook.
I second latte island's suggestion of creatively varying our disrespect for the Koran. For example, some imaginative videos I have in mind:
1) A man sits on a toilet, tapping his fingers and whistling, unable to have a bowel movement (lasts 15 to 30 seconds). He reaches over and picks up a Koran from a nearby shelf. Leafs through, and pace Barnhardt reads aloud the offending and/or stupid passages, and soon lets out the satisfying grunt and sigh of a successful bowel movement. Next, he rips out page after page to wipe himself.
2) A man or woman in an office (with a plaque saying "editor") sits at a desk with a stack of books. Picks up one book after another. When he picks up a good book (Huck Finn, Moby Dick, Dante's Divine Comedy, Vonnegut's Breakfast of Champions, Salinger's Franny and Zooey, John Kennedy Toole's A Confederacy of Dunces, H.E. Bates' The Darling Buds of May, Shakespeare's Sonnets, Churchill's The River War, Andrew Bostom's The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism, etc.) he places it on a stack to his right.
When he picks up a bad book (some trashy novel by Danielle Steele, Hitler's Mein Kampf, William Pierce's The Turner Diaries, Obama's The Audacity of Hope, Ted Kaczynski's Unabomber Manifesto, Dan Brown's The Da Vinci Code, Gore Vidal's Creation, the Cleveland White Pages, the Koran... he tosses each one onto the rejection pile on the floor to his left.
3) A clerk at a busy Barnes & Noble type store at a shopping mall dials 911 and explains an emergency but does not specify what it is. All the clerks gather around looking worried as they wait for the authorities to arrive, and they counsel all patrons to remain calm. Within a minute, two men arrive wearing full haz-mat gear like airtight spacesuits. They move carefully over to the "Religion" section, one of them uses long steel tongs to pick up a Koran, while the other opens a special cobalt receptacle for the Koran to be disposed of and seals it. They exit the store to the applause of all the staff and customers.
medic --
Gates of Vienna's rules about comments require that they be civil, temperate, on-topic, and show decorum. Your comment violated the last of these rules. We keep a PG-13 blog, and exclude foul language, explicit descriptions, and epithets. This is why I deleted your comment.
Use of asterisks is an appropriate alternative.
----------------------
medic said...
Everyone should by a hog and let it run on their property for a while. Where ever a mosque is proposed turn the hogs loose and let the defile the place. MUSLIMS DON'T LIKE HORS. THEY DEFILE. CUT THE HOGS THROAT AND SPRAY THE BLOOD ALL OVER. IF IT GET ONE A MUSLIM V- - [too bad].
Here's an interview with Ann Barnhardt. She's quoting Chesterton.. my kinda girl.
Sag.
Hahaha, great interview of Ann Barnhardt, Sagundo.
"I do apply my talent by teaching seminars for cattlemen."
(I suppose that makes her the proverbial redneck, only female.)
"Declare war against the Caliphate, just like we did against the Third Reich. Same bloody thing. And I’m not kidding."
"I have an offer for General Petraeus. I’ll GIVE him one of my balls. Then I’d still have two, and he would have one."
"-- You’re getting marriage proposals on iOTW. Do these guys have any hope?
– Yes, but not with me. But that is no loss for them. I am a buzzsaw crossed with a blowtorch. Do you really want to wake up next to THAT every morning? I’m best at a distance. A considerable distance."
"I love G.K. Chesterton’s quote, 'A true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' ”
"I can damn sure handle not only myself, but also an assault rifle, a big ass tactical shotgun, a sniper rifle, and a nine for those “intimate” encounters."
"Dude. I just did “Draw Mohammed Day” on bootlegged Mexican racehorse steroids. Hopefully this FORCES the Sharia issue in this country."
Clear-headed. Inspirational. Sharp as a knife. This woman has a real talent.
Zenster said ... Your towering hypocrisy is simply phenomenal. By your lights, Christians have every right to riot and murder when Muslims burn or deface the Bible. Yet, here you are cowering and cringing when a brave woman defiantly uses bacon to bookmark a piece of totalitarian filth more commonly known as the Qur'an.
I'm fine with people torching such an evil book.
However, the fact is that torching a Quran does nothing to intimidate Islamists nor to dissuade them from their Jihad. It simply emboldens them.
What we Westerners misunderstand about Islamists is that they actually worship their holy book as an extension of their god.
The consequences of our actions are not always what we would want them to be, especially for those of us with a Western mind-set trying to intimidate Islamists.
And in attacking their religiousity in a physical manner just makes us like them.
So, we need to find better ways to decry their Jihad and diminish their influence, and resist their aggressions.
What Islamists understand is strengh and weakness, and we make them weak by defeating them in battle, not by burning effigies of their God.
So even though we should destroy every singe Quran's we can find, it won't minimize Islamist aggression one iota.
Lawrence said...
... attacking their religiousity in a physical manner just makes us like them.
...So even though we should destroy every sing'e Quran we can find, it won't minimize Islamist aggression one iota.
The point is not to "minimize" the jihadis "aggression", but to assert our free speech and free opinion of the malignant tenets of the Koran in the face of murderous intimidation by MOhammedan fanatics to be silent dhimmi infidel dogs.
Burning a book does not reduce anyone to the "the same level" as a jihadi sawing off the head of a live human being, and to pose such a ludricious 'moral equivalency' is both suicidally naive and philosophically sophistical.
Exposing the hysterical intolerance and homicidal tendencies of Islam is instructive to the Denialist Majority in the West.
The more these sleepwalkers in the West see the true face of raving maniac Islam, the less the people in the West will want to invite in more members of this insidious deathcult.
Thankyou Anne for saying what we all feel, you are such a brave woman, God Bless America x....Donna
Brains and balls. What tripe. What does it take to trash any book when you are sitting safely within America grasping for your 15 minutes of fame regardless. What next. She'll lay it on the ground and pee on it. That is really courageous.
Almost as courageous as the men and women in uniform in Afghanistan who suffer the actual risk of defending this ignorant woman's pursuit of the spotlight. Another Bachmann.
Lawrence: However, the fact is that torching a Quran does nothing to intimidate Islamists nor to dissuade them from their Jihad. It simply emboldens them.
Our mere existence upon the face of this earth "emboldens them". Burning Qur'ans demonstrates a necessary and derisive rejection of Islam's tyrannous theocracy.
What we Westerners misunderstand about Islamists is that they actually worship their holy book as an extension of their god.
Then they had best stay away from countries where Constitutional rights protect our liberty to burn any bloody book anytime anyone sees fit to so long as it is done in a safe and reasonable manner. Muslims are skinless people living in a sandpaper world and sane beings will constantly reject Islam's petulant demand that we must wrap the entire earth in soft leather so that Muslims may go about barefoot in it.
The problem is not that Muslims "worship their holy book as an extension of their god". It's in how they violently insist that we demonstrate a similar, if not greater, degree of deference to their filthy doctrine despite the Qur'an having no significant use to a majority of civilized Westerners.
And in attacking their religiousity in a physical manner just makes us like them.
We've heard this rubbish before. "Killing terrorists just makes more terrorists." We killed millions of Nazis and managed to avoid becoming Nazis ourselves. We killed millions of Imperial Japanese and did not permanently descend to their level either.
What makes Muslims so magically different that killing several millions of them will suddenly render us barbaric Neanderthal savages like them?
So, we need to find better ways to decry their Jihad and diminish their influence, and resist their aggressions.
Study your history and you will discover that all through Islam's entire existence the only way to "decry their Jihad and diminish their influence, and resist their aggressions" is by killing Muslims in such large quantities that they lose their will to fight.
JUST AS IT HAS BEEN IN EVERY MAJOR WAR THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF THIS WORLD.
Islam has only one currency, violence. It must always be repaid in its own bloody coin. No other form of tender is either recognized or valued by Muslims.
I will ask that you first watch the video, "Relentless" and then return to try and maintain that anything but payment in kind or better will ever do anything to halt Islamic terrorism and global jihad.
The Middle East crisis is a microcosm of what the world faces on a macro basis with respect to fighting Islamic jihad.
So even though we should destroy every singe Quran's we can find, it won't minimize Islamist aggression one iota.
As for your last point, I refer you to Profitsbeard's eloquent and useful riposte preceding this comment. Your attempt at 'moral equivalency' is as repugnant as it is suicidally ineffective when dealing with Islam.
Josef: What does it take to trash any book when you are sitting safely within America grasping for your 15 minutes of fame regardless.
Did you even watch the videos? Or is your opacity so immense that you do not realize how the principal subject of Ms. Barnhardt's wrath is scumbag Senator Lindsey Graham and his efforts to disallow her subsequent demonstration of derisive ridicule for the Qur'an?
Our brave warriors have volunteered to fight Islam abroad specifically so that Americans might enjoy the freedom of speech and expression that Ms. Barnhardt has so vividly demonstrated for all to see.
Ann, We are on your side and if you need bodyguards.........Special Forces retired are ready to assist you anytime, anyplace and anywhere. In God We Trust!!! Hoorah!!! Impeach that illegal alien from Kenya that is acting as our President and follow our Constitution!!! We are a Christian Nation!!!
Brilliant woman! I stand shoulder to shoulder with her!
Nelson Eddy StoutHearted Men
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v55F8ocQ--I&feature=related
A Stouthearted Woman!
I keep saying it...the only Americans in 21st Century America with balls anymore are the women. God bless her.
all -
In a recent radio-interview she wonders why a single woman from Denver Colorado has to be the one to lead the charge: "Why in the hell do I have to be the one who does this. Where are the men? The complete failure on the part of the men of this country and on the part of the media and academia of this country, is despicable." [about 00:05:00sec]
Later on in the same interview: "[..] Men who just cower, who won't stand up for themselves. Boys and men have been taught to submit over the past forty to fifty years. The only people in this culture who can safely exhibit masculine qualities today, are women. That's the culture we live in today." [around 00:21:30sec]
She would have been a great one for the "Sex, Gender and Civilization" thread.
Kind regs from Amsterdam,
Sag
Post scriptum:
I'd like to repeat my request for expert info on creating a place (Facebook suggestion by Blogger) where people can safely post their creative video's in the wake of Mrs. Barnhardt's example. The group's page could be aptly called "Burn after Reading". After all of the online expressions of sympathy, I think something must be done.
Sagunto,
Miss Barnhardt is rhetorically exaggerating in general terms. And even if we measure manhood by doing this specific act, she (and Terry Jones) were preceded by that guy (I believe his name was Derek Fenton) who burned a Koran on the street in New York City on the 9/11 anniversary (on that day, there were Muslim groups in the area counter-protesting; and he subsequently lost his job for doing that act).
P.S.: I don't think "Burn After Reading" is an apt title because there are myriad other ways to disrespect the Koran other than burning, as many of which should be done(e.g., carefully excising pages and turning them into paper airplanes).
Hesperado -
She was exaggerating to make a valid general point, yes. Like in the other video, on the terror of "being nice", when she engaged in some linguistic gymnastics, explaining the meaning of "nice" as in "without knowledge" (meaning in Latin).
Of course she knows that words have different meanings in diverse historical periods, but in that particular video also, her general point remains a valid one.
Now, back to the practical side of things: would you perhaps be able to come up with any suggestions about the anonymity issue, or do you know any experts in the field that could join in with some advice?
Sag.
P.s.: of course you're right about other creative means of following the example of this fine lady. The name I suggested was obviously meant to pay homage to her particular video, and to counter assertions that the Koran should be read instead of burnt (for she only did so after reading). The proposed name was therefore not meant to exclude other methods to the same effect.
Zenster said... Our mere existence upon the face of this earth "emboldens them". Burning Qur'ans demonstrates a necessary and derisive rejection of Islam's tyrannous theocracy.
So, to whom is the message being sent, and what exactly is the message?
The message being sent isn't to Islamists it is to our own political leaders expressing our distress with our ridiculous international diplomacy regarding Islamist aggression.
The point is that public outrage of this sort needs to be focused on our leaders who otherwise seek to accommodate Islamists instead of resisting them.
Zenster said...As for your last point, I refer you to Profitsbeard's eloquent and useful riposte preceding this comment. Your attempt at 'moral equivalency' is as repugnant as it is suicidally ineffective when dealing with Islam.
You do understand that both you and Profitsbeard are assailing me over something which I actually agree with both of you on?
Nowhere in my original post or subsequently have I said anything about moral equivalence. This is something you've pulled from between the lines.
The point where we disagree is the difference between how Islamists view their book, and how we view their book.
And in this we have to understand how martyrdom works from their side of the fence.
Fact. Christians don't go crazy when someone burns a Bible. We go crazy when someone burns a Christian.
Fact. Islamists do go crazy when we burn their Quran, but we can kill all the Islamists with minimal impact on their agnendas.
It is the disparity of value upon which we place our religious icons and value of life.
Christians value life. Our Bible is simply a written reflection of that. The reverent reflection of our faith, but not the object of our faith.
Islamists value their book. They worship the Quran as a worldly extension of their god. While their value of human life is that life is best spent dying in combat while killing their enemies.
Morale Equivalence between these two perspectives? Hardly.
Profitsbeard said... Exposing the hysterical intolerance and homicidal tendencies of Islam is instructive to the Denialist Majority in the West.
I agree. But we're never going to get the message across by acting out with our own brand of hysterical intolerance.
Educating people on the madness that is Islam is what we need to do. Simply burning a bunch of their reference manuals isn't going to do that.
However, burning them for the purpose of sending a message to our national leadership might be the only option we have left to get our voices heard at the Federal level.
Sagunto: (per Ann Barnhardt) Boys and men have been taught to submit over the past forty to fifty years. The only people in this culture who can safely exhibit masculine qualities today, are women. That's the culture we live in today.
Let's all guess as to exactly who it is that has taught boys and men "to submit over the past forty to fifty years".
That would be women.
As an alpha male, I cannot tell you how many times women of all stripes reflexively disinclude me regardless of social circumstance. Curiously enough, conservative women more often demonstrate appreciation for my own views but I'll leave that for another day.
Modern "liberated" women have made it crystal clear to men which hoops to jump through and when if a guy wants to have any success in the dating game. The fact that most modern women do not have a clue as to what they really want doesn't matter at all. What ends up being sent is one of the most garbled interpersonal messages imaginable.
Bearing this in mind, there is also much truth to how women are the only ones "who can safely exhibit masculine qualities". A crude example would be how women can wear pants but no man worth his testosterone better be caught live or dead in anything more dress-like than a kilt. Even then he'd best have a burr that is audible in the next glen over.
The larger point being about this entire "metrosexual" hogwash that is so prevalent among modern men. The feminist agenda of "inclusiveness" bears much responsibility for driving this tacit acceptance of homosexuality. A simple example of this is the "fag hag"; as in straight women who routinely hang out with gay men, supposedly "to avoid being hit on all of the time". So, where are the straight guys who make it a habit to hang out with lesbians?
For those who have their doubts over the culpability of modern American women with respect to this issue, consider this; who is the most influential woman in America?
Hands down, it is Oprah Winfrey.
Examine her political and social agenda, then please tell me where there is any conflict with what I have written above.
Conservative males and, especially conservative White males have been declared to be the ultimate enemy by modern "liberated" women. Until that changes, look forward to some really rough sledding ahead.
As Ms. Barnhardt's video gains awareness, there is no doubt that Islam will react by killing even more innocents in retaliation. When that happens, as it did in response to Terry Jones' burning of the Qu'ran, remember which ideology exercises freedom of speech and thought, and which ideology opted to kill an innocent in response. Clearly, Ms. Barnhardt and Terry Jones continue to expose Islam by it's own adherents' very actions.
Lawrence: So, to whom is the message being sent, and what exactly is the message?
The message is for popular consumption by Muslim and Kafir alike. Its text goes as follows:
WE WILL NO LONGER TOLERATE THE INTOLERABLE
The point is that public outrage of this sort needs to be focused on our leaders who otherwise seek to accommodate Islamists instead of resisting them.
Last November provided "our leaders" with an adequate foretaste of what awaits them in future elections should they remain unresponsive to the people's will.
Having lost centuries of cumulative seniority, there is no doubt that the Democratic party clearly understood what message was being sent.
Less certain is whether ― in the midst of their victory celebrations ― the Republicans got the message anywhere near as clearly.
If not, they will soon enough learn that an enraged electorate will shed its partisan allegiances faster than a lobbyist can pick up an evening's dinner tab.
Incumbency is no longer a guarantee of reelection. Let's hope that Obama is the next student of that particular lesson.
Lawrence: Nowhere in my original post or subsequently have I said anything about moral equivalence. This is something you've pulled from between the lines.
In comment #117, you wrote:
And … attacking their religiousity in a physical manner just makes us like them.
How is burning a book, Qur'an or no Qur'an, "attacking their religiousity in a physical manner"?
A book is not a person's "religiosity", that is a personal trait embodied by physical actions such as praying five times a day.
If Muslims arbitrarily choose to extend their "religiosity" into every nook and cranny of reality, who gives a fresh flying fig? They are the ones who have stuck their bare toes out to be trodden upon. As I noted earlier;
We are not obliged to wrap the entire world in soft leather so that all Muslims may go about barefoot in it.
Lawrence: The point where we disagree is the difference between how Islamists view their book, and how we view their book.
To an extent, yes. But the difference is not the one which you cite.
I realize what you are trying to point out by contrasting between the regard in which Christians and Muslims hold their respective religious icons.
The situation is a wee bit different due to how Islam serves as more than a religion. In fact, it is not a religion at all but a political ideology.
In Western civilization, the separation of church and state makes it possible to burn a Bible as part of Constitutionally protected Freedom of Expression.
No such thing exists in Islam.
Burning the Qur'an is like burning both Constitution and Bible simultaneously. At every turn, Muslims like to pretend that the Qur'an is wholly scriptural but ― when push comes to shove ― the mask slips and shari'a law rears its ugly little head.
Always lurking beneath its surface is the totalitarian aspect of Islam. Usually, Muslims keep it pretty well concealed but when relatively innocuous ― at least by Western standards ― or unintentional offense if given, even in an oblique manner, out come the knives.
In that way, our criticizing the Muslim predilection for micromanagement of everyday life through totalitarian theocracy in no way equals the reflexively violent objection to all other faiths that Islam demands of its followers.
There simply is no way to compare the two. They are alien to each other. Islam's intolerance of all spiritual diversity is an unforgivable lapse of civility upon its part. There is no comparing it to reasonable objections that Christians, among others, are entitled to when confronted with Islamic intransigence.
Christians have no problem coexisting, Islam does. It is the ultimate deal-breaker and Muslims void their right to participate on the world stage so long as they seek to violently enforce such exclusivity.
Morale Equivalence between these two perspectives? Hardly.
Then why did you even mention "making a martyr out of their holy book"?
The Qur'an is neither "holy", nor can it ― in any legitimate sense of the word ― be martyred.
So long as we resist Islam with every fiber of our collective beings there can be nothing on earth that "makes us like them".
WorcGOP: Lindsey is NOT a republican.
Senator Lindsey most assuredly IS a Republican and he is not alone among GOP members who uphold Politically Correct Multicultural dogma. Look no further than George "Religion of Peace" Bush II.
It is the whole problem. We only have a choice between partially or entirely infected candidates.
Putting these imbeciles in office is like giving an incorrigible arsonist a cigarette lighter for Christmas.
WorcGOP --
Gates of Vienna's rules about comments require that they be civil, temperate, on-topic, and show decorum. Your comment violated the last of these rules. We keep a PG-13 blog, and exclude foul language, explicit descriptions, and epithets. This is why I deleted your comment.
Use of asterisks is an appropriate alternative.
----------------------
WorcGOP said...
Lindsey is NOT a republican.
He is a [greatly intensified] fraud. That is what HE IS!
Lawrence wrote:
"Fact. Christians don't go crazy when someone burns a Bible. We go crazy when someone burns a Christian."
Actually, we (Westerners, including Christians) don't even go crazy when Christians get burned, and shot in the back, and beheaded, and enslaved, and raped, and stabbed a hundred times. How many times, in how many places around the world, have Muslims committed these atrocities? And when have Christians (or any other Westerners) done anything more than verbally complain?
Lawrence wrote:
"...we're never going to get the message across by acting out with our own brand of hysterical intolerance."
a) "hysterical" is a subjective term; not a factual description (except, of course, when Lawrence Auster uses it). People will disagree on what constitutes "hysterical".
b) even if a certain tactic is persuasively deemed "hysterical" (or some other putatively unappetizing adjective), there are many ways to skin a cat. This War of Ideas we are in surely can, and should, employ many different styles and flavors. Audacious in-your-face disrespect (a good measure of which would be if it causes Lawrence Auster's nose to recoil fastidiously) may be deployed along with more judicious and intellectual approaches. There's no reason not to mix and match. (Indeed, it would be a fine spectacle in and of itself for tweed-suited bespectacled leather-patched-elbow intellectuals to stand in solidarity with trailer park rednecks who hang and burn effigies of Mohammed while screaming "F you Muzzies!" -- instead of maintaining a 60-foot pole of gingerly lest-my-white-gloved-reputation-becomes-soiled distance Robert Spencer style.)
In hoc signo vinces†
What a wonderful and uplifting message. I just hope that the men of America are there to protect and defend her against the forces of evil, that she so eloquently exposes. If anything happens to this lady, then shame on America as a nation. If muslims kick off in their own lands and blame this video, then surely that only reinforces the message that this lady is giving. The deaths that have occurred were not, not, due to Mr Jones, they were because of islam itself and until muslims realise that they are in a satanic cult, and hopefully convert to Christianity, then nothing will change.
4Symbols said...
In hoc signo vinces†
A pink Hello Kitty M-16?
I'm down with that!
Everything has been said up-thread but, I love this lady, she rocks. To hell with understanding someone, or something that wants to kill you. That’s not an understanding but capitulation, the actions of a feckless people scared, and ready for the slaughter. Well done Ann!
Have no problem burning one of those books, where the hell would you get one?
David --
At any Barnes and Noble.
I know a Counterjihad activist up in D.C. who buys all his jihad manuals at the Halalco Bookstore of the Dar al-Hijra mosque in Falls Church, VA. That's the same mosque that once had Anwar al-Awlaki as an imam.
American Muslims don't hide all that stuff; it's out there in the open, if anyone cares to look.
Baron B.=
CAIR will send you a free Koran
Save your money for the lighter fluid and matches.
Profitsbeard :
Are you sure you want CAIR to know your name, address, telephone number and e-mail ? Look at their nice threatening language :
"This offer is valid for US addresses only. Please note that it is a violation of the law to misrepresent material facts in an attempt to obtain goods for yourself or another, and to use the US Postal service in furtherance of obtaining the goods. All violators will be prosecuted under the full scope of relevant local & federal laws."
Their Koran isn't even free :
"Please note that as of July 1, 2009, requestors are asked to pay, by credit/debit card, $8.95 to cover the cost of shipping by Media Mail. Each Qur’an is a hardback edition, retailing at $78."
$ 78 for a book which is long out of copyright ? Whom do they think they are fooling ? I'm sure you can buy a copy of the Koran for $ 9 in a legitimate bookstore, without begging for an allegedly "free" copy from a jihadist organisation.
Awesome! Just plain awesome!! Thank you!
I love it! Her reading of the koran explains why Kadafi always looks like a drag queen. As for me, I stand behind her and the 1st Amendment, otherwise what are our troops fighting for?
I love it! Her reading of the koran explains why Kadafi always looks like a drag queen. I stand with her and the first amendment. Otherwise, what are our troops fighting for anyway?
I love it! Her reading of the koran explains why Kadafi always looks like a drag queen. I stand with her and the first amendment. Otherwise, what are our troops fighting for anyway?
I love this woman, more and more people are feeling and speaking like her in our country too.(UK)Enough is enough and it's time we all stood together is this destruction of our countries. She'd make a better President than the one you have now - i bet she could find her birth certificate. LOL
Robert Marchenoir said...
Profitsbeard :
Are you sure you want CAIR to know your name, address, telephone number and e-mail ?
4/13/2011 12:11 AM
Robert M.-
I was kidding!
To see if anyone who visit the CAIR site and learn exactly what you did.
"Free" my astericks!
Graham and Petraes need to
certainly be replaced because they
are Obama's and George Soros'
yes men, if you follow. Neither
have the Cajones for open warfare,
and if the radical Muslims want
war with the West, why do we
hesitate? The Japanese learned
the hard-way, in the Pacific, as
the Allies ended World War Two in
the Pacific with two atomic
visitors over the cities of
Hiroshima and Nagasaki, a feat
that still can be accomplished
today.therefore, the only
thing different between now and
then, is the date. Power is the
only thing that these radical
Muslims understand, therefore, I
believe that the West will sooner
or later, tire of turning the other
cheek, if you follow. It is
difficult to negotiate with a
tribal mind-set, and diplomacy has
also faile, therefore, I, as an
American citizen, am tired of
catering these low-life, uneducated
camel-herders, and simply stated,
I am tired of being held hostage
by any belief, but in this case,
a known CULT.
While I applaud her for her courage and research, I take offense at her saying 'us Christians' and using foul language at the same time.
Lisa: While I applaud her for her courage and research, I take offense at her saying 'us Christians' and using foul language at the same time.
Permit me to observe that you are acting every bit as thin-skinned as the Muslims who would like nothing better than to rape and kill you. May I suggest that you swallow your too-easily inspired indignation and try a bit harder to find common cause with someone who is doing their best to help save both Western civilization and Christianity at the same time.
Lisa -
"I take offense.."
And?
The Islamist/Islamics are stupid people and have been brainwashed since the beginning of time. They have been fighting wars since the beginning of time and have been listening to Allah, who is the same to me as the DEVIL. Who in their right mind would believe the
words of the Koran. I wholly endorse this lady's stand on the American Freedom of speech and everything she says or presented in these 2 videos are true. We need more Americans to stand up and show there support and Allegiance to THE BIBLE and to our Constitution. Every Musilm should be sent back to where ever the HELL they came from and now.
Please don't spoil the fun for me by telling me Ann Barnhardt is a Christian. Like so many Americans are. 80%, if I'm right.
It would turn her words and actions into a bad joke.
If not, she will put lives elsewhere to risk, too, as others here before me remarked. I couldn't care less. Afghani and Iraqi and Pakistani and all those other nationalities that scream 'We demand total submission to Allah!' (= what 'Islam' means) will always find an excuse to kill unbelievers. And that believe is spreading like wildfire.
I'm certainly not for an all-exclusive white atheist America - I'm not even American - but Obama and the European Union are making a grave mistake with their 'freedom of religion' policies. In The Netherlands a governmental majority is licking muslim arses all the time. And look at what is happening in Germany, in England.
'London Taliban terrorises Muslim women into head scarves and burqa's.'
The same will ultimately happen in France. It's disgusting and frightening.
deDeurs: Afghani and Iraqi and Pakistani and all those other nationalities that scream 'We demand total submission to Allah!' (= what 'Islam' means) will always find an excuse to kill unbelievers.
Then why are you finding fault with someone who has the courage to challenge such unmitigated nonsense?
Why don't you amuse us all with what you think is her "bad joke".
"Allah is the one and only God."
"Wrong. God is the only true God."
"Allah is the Greatest, haram woman!"
"Well, Mr Jack-Ass; God is much greater! He's so great that He decided to create your god just for the fun of it!"
"You infidel!"
"You blasphemist!"
See what I mean?
There also exist enlighted, rational thinking Christians (hell, there are even muslims with whom one can have a pleasant conversation). If Ann is one of those, little harm is done. If she's a fundamentalist Christian, she's am A-grade hypocrite.
There's one thing to say for Pat Condell. He doesn't believe in any all-knowing, judging, sentencing Über-Vater, he enjoys total mental and moral freedom. So his rantings against Islam and Christianity, although a bit obsessive, make the most sense.
deDeurs: If she's a fundamentalist Christian, she's am A-grade hypocrite.
If you bothered to carefully read this thread or visit Ms. Barnhardt's web site, you would already know that she is a practicing Catholic who enjoys a wide base of support that includes both Atheists and Agnostics, like myself.
Yes, she mentions it herself.
I share her feelings of disgust over the Islam, but I cannot take her serious. Her wonderful, infallible Catholic god is responsible for uncountable sufferings and millions of deaths. Just what Allah can be held accountable for. She may personalluy not agree with these atrocities - which are of human fabrication after all - but for me believing in an all-powerful deity should be a personal pastime, and to be confined to one's own home or church/mosque.
I really like her, but she hugely contradicts herself. Does read Ann her bible in Latin? I don't think so. But the book she is holding, and burning, is an Arabic/English edition. That's not a 'religious original quran', as she states. The book that may call itself the 'original, authentic' quran, is the one that is written in Arabic, and no other language.
I'm surprised she made that mistake.
DeDeurs -
wrote:
"Her wonderful, infallible Catholic god is responsible for uncountable sufferings and millions of deaths. Just what Allah can be held accountable for."
Smugness, falsehood, sickening moral equivalence, just your run off the mill atheist CJ-"supporter".
The religion honouring her god is indeed responsible for millions of deaths, among them a sizeable number of Muslims (crusades, battle of Lepanto, Gates of Vienna, the list is endless). That religion has prevented Europe from being run over by Muslim invaders and indirectly saved you and other self-righteous atheists from bowing down your head to the Crescent death-cult of the East while sticking up your behind to the West.
Your own progressivist "Religion of Humanity" is probably responsible for human suffering on a much wider scale, from the so-called "renaissance" (i.e. miscarriage) onwards, through the nationalism, destruction and vandalism of the "reformation" (i.e. deformation) and the elitist bourgeois power grab of the "enlightenment" (i.e. twilight of reason), all the way to the socialisms of the 20th century (fascists, nazis, commies), supplemented by "varieties of Progressive experience", the socialism of Wilsonian America (political Americanism, with its trademark political correctness and the concomitant cult of "liberation" and agressive victimhood).
One more telling quote from DeDeurs:
"The book that may call itself the 'original, authentic' quran, is the one that is written in Arabic, and no other language [..]"
Spoken like a true Muslim believer.
Kind regs from Amsterdam,
Sag.
What are you talking about, Sagunto? I simply quoted the Christian view on God. You disagree? Your God is NOT infallible? NOT wonderful?
It's the same with the 'one and only' Quran. I didn't make that up, I just quoted fundamentalist imams and mufti's. A translated quran is not the real one, it goes against the word of the prophet (who didn't excel in English anyway). It's what THEY say, Sagunto. Not me. So Ms Barnhardt disappoints me, she should have known about this little detail. Because the book-burning is a statement, right? If I decided to make a statement by burning up Robert Crumb's 'Bible', it would not have much impact, either.
Furthermore: of course anti-theist 'followers' (including Buddhists, Jains, Peyotes, Zoroastrianists, Ophites, Hasidists, Falun Gongs, Scientologists, Babists, Adamites, voodooists and Justin Lord Bieber devotees) are no saints. Oppressing and murdering and torturing is the basic make-up of Mankind from his days as Homo Habilis till Homo Sapiens Sapiens. Killing for a monotheist is just a senseless alternative, but it's no less killing.
Oops, sorry- H.Habilis never exist. About 7000 years ago God went straight to the point with Homo Eden Sapiens, right?
Let's make July 4th, national "Barbecue a Koran day!"
Post your best Koran barbecue on youtube, etc.
Bob
I was a little concerned by Ann's namecalling initially, but when compared to the outrages of Islam, she was rather restrained. Our politicians are, for the most part, cowards and traitors. The part about the pedophilia is true, my son served in Afghanistan and told me about those pervs. We need to pray that God will protect Ann from the wackjobs who believe the nonsense that is in the koran. Thanks, Ann. God bless America!
Ladies and Gentlemen.......It never ceases to amaze me how many Americans have short term memories. Who in the last 25-30 years have initiated terrorist attacks on the west. Let's see;
Twin Towers, Lockerbee(sp), US Cole, Marine Barracks, on and on ad infinitum......Muslims=Islam ! These people will fight anything and anyone in the name of Islam or any other reason. From the beginning of recorded history they
have been at war with someone or something.
I would have no qualms in pushing the preverbial "red" button against them (Islam) or anyone else that threatens this country. Just give me the coordinates. They would have to find another direction to bow too.
There's a saying where I come from, "Screw with the Bull-----ya git the horns" or even better yet "Speak softly but carry a BIG STICK". We need to bring our boys home and let the rest of the world know that in the future there will be no troops looking for some damn radical in some God forsaken hell hole. But... if we know from whence the terrorist came they need to dig a deep hole and not come out for a thousand years or so.
In finishing what if the "3rd Anti-Christ", instead of being an individual, is in fact Islam itself?
Jim
Tom: I was a little concerned by Ann's namecalling initially, but when compared to the outrages of Islam, she was rather restrained.
When you compound this with Republican Senator Graham's own treason, Ms. Barnhardt's language is quite understandable.
Jim Worley: I would have no qualms in pushing the preverbial "red" button against them (Islam) or anyone else that threatens this country. Just give me the coordinates. They would have to find another direction to bow too.
As one wag put it:
AFTER A WHILE MUSLIMS WOULD BEGIN TO FEEL PRETTY SILLY BOWING FIVE TIMES A DAY TO A PLAIN OF HOT, SMOKING GLASS
I have been in contact with more than one ex-military officer who was responsible for deployment of America's nuclear weapons.
To a man, they have said that, were these devices used for their correct and intended purpose, Islam would no longer be posing any problem whatsoever to America or much of anywhere else.
For many years I have opposed "first use" of nuclear weapons against Islam. That is no longer the case. Islam continues to drain off untold trillions of dollars in needless expenditure save that we are obliged to contain this predatory and barbaric culture.
I now support ending jihad by whatever means necessary in the shortest time possible.
This should not be read as any sort of endorsement for genocide against Muslims.
A prompt an unmistakable demonstration of America's displeasure is required so that Muslims around the planet are inspired to purge Islam of its jihadist retinue. Failing that, a campaign of eliminating Islam's financial, clerical, political and scholastic aristocracy needs to be started at once. Its sole purpose should be as a primary phase of whatever measures are necessary to ensure that Islam no longer poses a threat to anything larger than insect life.
One supremely motivating factor for Muslims is that they, literally, have nothing to lose. Total annihilation of the MME (Muslim Middle East) would not result in significant cultural loss to the civilized world. This is especially the case when compared to the trove of Western patrimony that would be irretrievably lost were just one single major metropolis like London, Paris or New York to be incinerated by a terrorist nuclear device.
Islam must be confronted with an existential threat to its further presence upon this earth. Nothing else will deter it from the path of global jihad. Until Western leadership understands this with crystal clarity, needless loss of life will continue unabated.
deDeurs --
Gates of Vienna's rules about comments require that they be civil, temperate, on-topic, and show decorum. Your comment violated the last of these rules. We keep a PG-13 blog, and exclude foul language, explicit descriptions, and epithets. This is why I deleted your comment.
Use of asterisks is an appropriate alternative.
----------------------
deDeurs said...
"A Muslim could wipe his a*** with one page of a Qur'an, blow his nose on another, use the next to blot up his spilled beer, fold the entire following chapter to level his cooker, then the burn rest for kindling and the Islamic world would scarcely break wind over it."
This Zenster is certainly a type. Muslims have been killed for not keeping a koran copy on a shelf lower than the top one in their bookcase. For putting a glass of water next to the koran. For simply saying, 'Are we really sure that the prophet said this or did that?'. His nonsensical contributions make serious discussing impossible. Do hate muslims but keep some sense please. Or change your nick to 'killdozer'.
A last remark from me because I feel I landed in the middle of the KuKluxKlan. Wow, did your grandfathers burn Beatles records in their days?
I despise muslims and islamists more than you think. Tom's military son is right, however Afghan men [have carnal knowledge of] pretty 16-year old boys not because they are all homosexual but because it's next to impossible for most of them to come near to women, courtesy the Islam. It's the ultimate patriarchal horror over there, kept in power by old men who pretend to serve Allah humbly, but are tyrants who consider themselves a god on their own. These are the people who rule those regions more tightly than Karzai does.
But I also loath christian fundamentalists like Fred Phelps and Ann Coulter and Sarah Palin and George Bush and tons of other hypocrite church leaders and politicians, peacocking around with their anti-gay agendas and crusades against sex out of wedlock, while at the same time humiliating their families by getting caught with their own puritan pants down. Grant Storms, anyone? Mark Sanford, George Rekers, Mark Foley, Joey DiFatta, Bob Allen, Larry Craig, Mark Souder, Ted ('I can be cured from the homosexual disease if God helps me!') Haggard?
Another quote from Zenster:
"You can also say that you know the sky is colored fluorescent yellow with purple polka dots but it doesn't qualify as true."
Right. You can also say that God exists and that christians are a superior species, but it doesn't qualify as true.
I like Ann Barnhardt's acidic humour and share her feelings that the Islam is extremely dangerous. But she as well is undeniably one of these 'I am holier than God' hypocrites. How can you look into the mirror without flinching.
And I also am on a crusade. So I'm writing an article on her for my blog. Thank you all for supplying me with additional information.
deDeurs: This Zenster is certainly a type.
Please be more explicit. Vague inferences and innuendo are not acceptable coin in trade. You can certainly do better.
Muslims have been killed for not keeping a koran copy on a shelf lower than the top one in their bookcase. For putting a glass of water next to the koran. For simply saying, 'Are we really sure that the prophet said this or did that?'.
The rapacious and arbitrary nature of Islam in no way diminishes the need to cripple its ability to wage jihad.
His nonsensical contributions make serious discussing impossible.
You state this without any proof or explanation of how my words preclude serious discussion. Yours is the more serious violation of moral and ethical argument. Either conclusively prove what you aver or admit the inadequacy of your assertions.
Do hate muslims but keep some sense please.
In reality, I do my best to not to "hate Muslims". Were that not the case, my arguments would trend more towards "kill them all and sort it out later". I take no such position. Instead, I argue most vigorously in favor of measures that best promise to avert the looming Muslim holocaust. Please explain how that fits in with your model of "hate".
Due to how a majority of my efforts are directed at averting this looming Muslim holocaust, please explain how I am, supposedly, so hateful. This, despite the way we are faced with a genocide that Islam continues to propel both specifically and generally.
Or change your nick to 'killdozer'.
I prefer that my user name be related to the ownership of a delightful wolf hybrid named Zen and not some psychotic mechano-construct that you have chosen to nominate but thank you anyway as Sturgeon is a favorite science fiction author of mine.
A last remark from me because I feel I landed in the middle of the KuKluxKlan. Wow, did your grandfathers burn Beatles records in their days?
Ummmm … no. My grandfather singlehandedly stormed a German machine gun nest and killed five enemy soldiers with his sidearm. They were the same sort of Germans who would go on to burn such things as books or (if they had them then) LP albums.
He later woke up one morning to discover that the pup tent next to him was no more than a crater in the ground. The artillery shell that made it so was incapable of awakening him because of his resistance to shell shock. I still prize his Cavalry horse blanket that has bullet holes which testify to the mounts that were shot out from beneath him.
It took being assaulted with chlorine gas in France's Argonne forest before he was finally sent home with permanent lung damage and a Purple Heart to show for it.
But I also loath christian fundamentalists like Fred Phelps and Ann Coulter and Sarah Palin and George Bush and tons of other hypocrite church leaders and politicians, peacocking around with their anti-gay agendas and crusades against sex out of wedlock, while at the same time humiliating their families by getting caught with their own puritan pants down.
Then why equate such a herd of questionably mixed talent with clearly vicious and murderous fanatics who number in the hundreds of millions instead of the paltry few represented by those whom you cite?
You can also say that God exists and that christians are a superior species, but it doesn't qualify as true.
Where do I say "that God exists and that christians are a superior species". Please provide cites with URL links to comments or posts that make such statements on my behalf or feel free to piss off with your patently false accusations.
I like Ann Barnhardt's acidic humour and share her feelings that the Islam is extremely dangerous. But she as well is undeniably one of these 'I am holier than God' hypocrites. How can you look into the mirror without flinching.
The larger question being; "why do you express sympathy for murderous Muslims while you demand that any of us flinch when examining ourselves and the motivations that demand complete and total opposition to Islam?"
And I also am on a crusade.
A very confused one, albeit.
That's OK, Baron Bodissey. I agree, let's show decorum and keep this board family-friendly. The dreaded a-word that Zenster used before me in his own reaction (in #61 and all four letters of it) and which I merely quoted, isn't really that important.
Zenster, you are not READING. You're just smelling up catchwords like a Pavlov dog, bark! bark! Why shouldn't I, if I despise religiously fanatic MUSLIMS (and I do), not despise religious fanatic CHRISTIANS? I'm not suggesting that all of you here are of that kind, but the majority certainly backs 'm up.
The whole reason why the Westboro Baptist Church has recently been absolved by Law, so that they can keep on calling veterans of war (like your own grandfather was) f*gg*ts who'll burn in hell without being convicted for it, is in my opinion that your country sort of forgives them. Fred Phelps and family make the rest of America feel uneasy and embarrassed, but no one dares condemn co-believers in God. If you disagree with cr*zies like Phelps but also the Pat Robertsons and Ann Coulters; let's hear it then.
deDeurs: Why shouldn't I, if I despise religiously fanatic MUSLIMS (and I do), not despise religious fanatic CHRISTIANS?
It's a free country. Despise whomever you like. However, all too often you seem to be drawing moral equivalency between Islam and Christianity. This is wholly inappropriate and dishonest.
I'm not suggesting that all of you here are of that kind, but the majority certainly backs 'm up.
Please provide a reliable citation with a URL link which shows that the majority of American Christians condone "religious fanatic CHRISTIANS". Failing that, your are requested to withdraw such a patently unsupported and libelous assertion.
This is all the more important, seeing as how you immediately go on to mention a diabolical sub-moron like Fred Phelps. Again, the juxtaposition of these two items ― religious fanatic Christians and the Westboro loons ― within the context of general approval by the majority of Christian Americans reeks of an attempt to equate Christianity and Islam.
The whole reason why the Westboro Baptist Church has recently been absolved by Law, so that they can keep on calling veterans of war (like your own grandfather was) f*gg*ts who'll burn in hell without being convicted for it, is in my opinion that your country sort of forgives them.
The wholly mistaken reasoning you exhibit indicates that you are not a citizen of the United States. First Amendment Constitutional rights allows Fred Phelps the right to call anyone at all a faggot. It is only within recent years that legally preferential so-called "hate speech" laws have altered that right in any substantial manner.
While it may be your opinion that "your country sort of forgives" those in the Westboro church for their detestable behavior you are most likely very mistaken. A huge portion of America regards Fred Phelps and his family as the very worst sort of religious zealots who deserve nothing less than a thorough beatdown whenever they seek to disrupt the grieving of military families.
There are probably many Christians who actually do forgive the Phelps family their egregious sins but that probably should not be construed as any sort of approval for their repulsive behavior.
I will ask that other Christians here at this site please step in and make their own case with respect to this as I am not a follower of Jesus Christ.
Again, you demonstrate a rather disjointed and incomplete understanding of both America and the significant differences that exist between how the majority of Muslims practice Islam and the majority of Christians practice Christianity.
The mistakes you make are very dangerous in nature due to both the unjust equivalency you draw and your incomplete exposure of Islam's core defects that make it so much more repugnant and perilous than Christianity ever has been, is now, or will be.
You once more miss some points. One is my own fault.
First Amendment Constitutional rights allows Fred Phelps the right to call anyone at all a faggot
with consent of God, I forgot to add. But the question is, which and who's God? There's is but one God, right? Some have the nerve to say that God and Allah are one, others scream 'Insult!' 1,5 billion muslims believe in Allah because he is the real one and only true God. See Fred Phelps tantrumming!...
Of course I understand that most Americans disagree with Phelps' iron & concrete self-deception that he serves and is supported by the one and only true God. But can one be sure it's self-deception? Is grass green, or do we believe it is green? Have shamans from long ago put a magic spell on our genes so now we are absolutely sure that we see green grass? I've got a big problem with these monotheist religions, Zenster. I cannot take any of it serious, and so I cannot take Barnhardt serious. A pity, because she's such a doll.
The mistakes you make are very dangerous in nature
Let me brighten your day. Our government has an extradity agreement with the US. A one-way agreement, of course, the US has never taken The Netherlands serious. That fly dropping on the global map. The fly drop on the global map that keeps behaving like a spoiled child when it comes to obeying a simple order to buy JFK's for a nice allied price.
So will you send me a postcard, when I'm in Guantanamo Bay?
Neither the Pastor nor Ms. Barnhardt "put anyone's life at risk". Muslims do not need anything to kill or maim non-Muslims because they alrady have it - the book she just burned and they have been using it as an excuse since long before Pastor Jones or Ms. Barnhardt came along!
You are a woman, an American, a Christian of exquisite and indomitable courage. How proud I am of thee. And how good and noble and beautiful is truth spoken by a woman.
The Greeks held women sacred as we do thee. Antigone cursed a King and his command that her brother slain in war be let to the carrion dogs. She poured new wine into the earth and so honored her brother Polyneises in death.
You are a women of the Greeks. You are an American woman. How proud we are of thee.
Please be careful we cannot afford to lose another Antigone.
Robert Rfhlaw@q.com
To all who prowl GoV's environs.
Will none of you who are Christian come forward and dispute the outrageous nonsense that deDeurs spews?
To the best of my abilities, I shall do so tomorrow but it will bode ill for my estimation of this site if I find that no one else has taken up the same banner which I have carried here with all my strength.
As an Agnostic, it continues to amaze me that, all too often, I find myself defending Christianity with so little assistance from those who march beneath Christ's banner.
Do not for one moment think that I will ever abandon the truth of Christianity's superiority over such outright scum as Islam.
Yet, I will be obliged to adopt a less determined position in my stance if no one here has the courage to step forward and challenge the blatant rubbish with which deDeurs continues to smear both the Christian Church and duly apparent logic or reason.
I have no problem in carrying this standard alone. What I do have a problem with is the quiescence of so many believers who, in the presence of one who's Agnosticism demands a potentially broader mindset and less devoted commitment to rigid adherence, nonetheless remain silent in the midst of what can only be an unjust attack upon Christianity's clearly distinct difference with respect to Islam.
Is there no one here who will rally to this obvious cause?
What most makes me giggle, are the bleeding heart liberals, that believe we can actually change the minds and attitudes of these monsters living among us. They want to "talk" sense into these monsters, and show them the error of their ways, but not offend them at the same time......LOL, good luck with that.
What they fail to understand, is their hugs will be greeted with a bag over their head, beatings, then camera's and lights, and a 10 year old boy, holding a rusty, dirty spoon, who will then saw off the head of the hugger, and send the video to the headless ones family as a ramadan card :)
Want to fix pakistan, lets escalate the hatred between them and India, then watch the Real Christmas lights coming from the Mideast.
Shall I continue then? I mean, I could have easily been put on a permanent ban earlier.
Again: I don't hate Ann Barnhardt. I'm in love, I want to marry her! But she's a die-hard christian. For me that puts everything she says against the (die-hard) islam in a different light.
First of all: I tend to agnosticism myself rather than atheism. I cannot KNOW that there is, or there is no Creator, but I have this vague feeling that Something is running the factory called Universe. Not in a (human) rational thinking way, but there seems to be a system at work. So, Something. Not an all-powerful wizard with a long beard and supernatural tricks up his sleeves. (On the other hand, are the sun and it's magical life-giving powers, the death of stars and the subsequent birth of new suns not a incredible miracle in themselves? Have you seen the NG docu's on deep sea life; the varieties in shapes, their feeding techniques, their - gasp! - neon light displays? I admit, it's very hard to think this evoluted at random and wasn't created on purpose)
But I do not believe in an afterlife and paradise and angels and eternal blissful awareness and condemnation of certain procreative techniques and sunning n*de in your own back garden. It simply doesn't gel with nature. Nature is an insolent machine based on recycling processes, from the tiniest bacteria to ever-changing tectonic plates. I don't believe God created all this 7000 years ago. A more sober christian also knows it doesn't work this way.
"As an Agnostic, it continues to amaze me that, all too often, I find myself defending Christianity with so little assistance from those who march beneath Christ's banner."
Why would I march under an atheist banner against the ones with a christian and muslim banner? I couldn't care less. Except that I do not want christians and muslims oppose their believes on me and force me to change my life. You christians consider islam as a danger. So do I, but for less sectarian reasons.
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An example. I appreciate being n*ked (asterisk, you'll never know here) and don't understand why I have to 'protect' people against my body like it's something from Dante's Hell. I mean, a lot of uncovered noses, ears and hands and chins are in ehtic terms quite offensive to the eye...
It's a preference, not for sick s*xual reasons, but because it represents a natural state and - not in all circumstances I admit - a comfortable one. In the eyes of a lot of christians and in those of almost all muslims, it's a grave sin. You are OBLIGED to consider it a sin. God and/or Allah tells you so, in the scriptures.
But what the scriptures offer, is the beautiful line
WHO TOLD THOU THAT THOU ART NAKED.
The whole Eden and downfall episode, I've written about it before and not out of disrespect, it's simply highly interesting stuff.
I know that there are in particularly in Australia and America a few pastors who hold services for n*dists, and do not wear preacher's clothes themselves. Sort of Adamites, you can say. They are ridiculed and even threatened. But why? I feel great respect for these people. They may look silly, but they are pure. Unless you really believe that God has forbidden us to be pure till the end of times.
Go be ashamed of your body and connect it to s*xual perversions if you think that pleases your god. But don't put that shame on me, who does not believe in such fairy tales. No one has the right to predict me how to live as long as that life is harming no one else. N*dity never killed anyone. The opposite; false shame and puritanism resulting in punishments and frustrations, did. For another example: two guys and two gals living together as man and wife have never killed others. And the idea that they 'corrupt the minds of children' is also ridiculous. In the western world children are confronted with violent images each day, I know a lot of christian parents do not like it either, but very little effort is taken to stop it or have it toned down a bit. Violence, after all, is entertainment, and showbusiness means Money. Don't go fight so-called blasphemic n*dists and g*ys, go fight far more serious crimes: greedy capitalism.
How can the western world be allies with nations like Saudi-Arabia, Bahrein, United Arabic Emirates. Money. Judas' money, in fact.
Only 500 years ago, you could be burned at the stake for expressing your doubts about the authenticity of certain gospels, or disputing the flat earth theory. Only 500 years ago, and even less. Have christians become more sensible since then? Yes, they did. There certainly exist honest and rational and decent christian politicians. But I'm sure that they form a minority. Sometimes it seems that corruption is the only way to make it, as a politician.
Muslims still loose out on sensibility. The unsettling thought is that even in another 500 years, they will still cling to medieval values, and keep on screaming for burning stakes and beheading and stoning spectacles. For some the sharia is a court to settle marital and financial issues in a rational way, others use it as an instrument to impose dictatorship and anti-freedom terror on civilians. Tip for Americans: you have a reasonably good and humane justiciable system, now try to gather it together under one great USA law instead of the separate law systems in individual states you have now.
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Zenster says that most Americans abhor what Phelps is doing. Then how come the victims, the families that are gathered at a funeral and are insulted beyond words, stay so passive when the Phelps gang is around? Why don't 25 strong male adults among a group of 50 family members throw themselves on 10 Phelps protesters, and break every bone in their bodies? Because the demonstrators act within the law? Why don't you en mass press your senator to have these Amendments reformed? Why are you, screaming for the extermination of fundamentalistic hate-muslims, so afraid of these Phelps creeps? That's the impression I get. The impression I get, is that you fear they may be under God's protection.
If that's so, God really needs a a psychiatrist.
But also certain Muslims employ that odd passivity. The well-fed, well housed muslim immigrants in Europe, slowly westernalizing even though they deny it, look away when their brethern elsewhere in the world commit the most atrocious horrors in the name of Allah. I've heard a witness account of that unbelieveable extreme cowardy slaughter in a christian church in Iraq (November 2010), it choked me up. European muslims keep silent about such disasters. They don't even blink. It's not their doing. They come up with the excuse 'In time (i.e. after they died) Allah will judge over them.' It's what men also say to a sharia judge after they 'honourfully' killed their wife or daughter because these women so much as 'looked at a strange man, trying to seduce them', and 'only Allah may judge over my deeds'. Thank you so much, that's a lot of comfort for the stoned wife or shot daughter. Who are too often victims of jealousy and false accusations. Yes, Ann Barnhardt, in reciting the quran quotes on women, is absolutely correct in tearing these pages out and burn them.
I understand the fuming of christians over such religious monsters, in this I'm with you, but I cannot understand why co-muslims just shrug. I cannot understand if some of you suggest that the only good muslim is a dead muslim. If a peaceful muslim - and they do exist - is a criminal simply for his believe in Allah and the prophet and in the Mecca shrine and for his desire to kneel five times a day on a little piece of carpet, then YOU should reconsider your own pacifism in regard to your God and Jesus.
The quran condemns suicide. Is that so typical islamic? Christians believe in God's Justice, He will decide if a soul goes to heaven or hell, right? People who end their own lives, due to a terminal illness or by way of a suicidal killing spree because 'God/the Devil told me to do it', will according to the catholic church be condemned. Usually these people are dismissed as 'fake christians', and 'We do not recognize ourselves in their god.' As an non-believer I find these statements hard to take. Where can I find a God in whom I can recognize myself? Where can I find THE God? They come in so many shapes and colours and brands. Can I talk to Jesus? I mean, the real one, not the guy in that musical movie or represented as an unidentifiable voice in my head? There's nothing as untrustworthy than the human mind, you know. Faith is basically a psychological phenomenon.
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"Do not for one moment think that I will ever abandon the truth of Christianity's superiority."
But who are you to judge, Zenter? Where is your proof, outside the scriptures that have been dabbled and manipulated over by hundreds of popes and cardinals and bishops and uncountable hebrew priest 'scholars' before them? Some of these biblical 'corrections' are painfully visible. If there is a God, He must cringe every time these falsifications and misconceptions are read out loud. God, you say, can do anything, but can He make a distinction between catholic, baptist, jesuit, reformed, quaker's and amish faiths? If He exists, they surely must give Him perpetual headaches. Not to speak of the millions of daily prayers in the category of 'Please help me God to increase the profits on my products.' He filters them out, I suppose? I would!
"GABRIEL, WHERE'S THAT SPAM FILTER YOU PROMISED TO INSTALL?"
"I'm still looking around, Lord, but we need a really tough one, and it hasn't been developed so far..."
I can respect people who believe in a monotheist, if they drop the nonsense of holy scriptures and senseless rituals and that slash & gore display of the passion of the christ. I admire them when they are able to free themselves from evangelistic liars and hypocrites in the political field who preach about 'christian family values'. Who, and that's far more worse, have the power to bend and change laws and human rights in that regard, but at the same time commit adultery and s*d*my. Afterwards they tell their wives in front of the CNN camera's 'I cannot tell you how sorry I am, may God forgive me.' That makes me PUKE, guys. Doesn't they make you puke? Well, they should be!
They also make me afraid. These morons are powerful, they predict how we all must live. If Phelps had been a bit more clever, and had he been a billionaire, he could have sat in the Senate by now and maybe even in the White House. You're right Zenster, he's far too radical for most Americans to swallow, but he has that dangerous sort of charisma. And have we as yet puzzled out why Hitler's charisma worked so extremely well? We haven't.
You still think I'm only ranting, Zenster? Mind you, I may ramble as I'm not a professional writer. But do christians think God should wipe me from the face of the earth because I 'collaborate with muslims'?
There's a saying about wooden beams in eyes.
First off, I'd like to express some appreciation for the obvious effort you have made to clarify your position, deDeurs.
You seem to have some understanding of why Islam is so intensely evil.
deDeurs: Muslims still lose out on sensibility. The unsettling thought is that even in another 500 years, they will still cling to medieval values, and keep on screaming for burning stakes and beheading and stoning spectacles. For some the sharia is a court to settle marital and financial issues in a rational way, others use it as an instrument to impose dictatorship and anti-freedom terror on civilians.
The "500 years" part is accurate but you have just scratched the surface of shari'a law and do not exhibit a full comprehension of just how corrupt and misogynistic the Islamic legal code really is.
Tip for Americans: you have a reasonably good and humane justiciable system, now try to gather it together under one great USA law instead of the separate law systems in individual states you have now.
We already have everything you cite. Federal Constitutional law supersedes State law in most crucial matters. The original balance was quite masterful in its inception but has gradually been perverted by overweening federalists and careerist politicians in Washington D.C.
Zenster says that most Americans abhor what Phelps is doing. Then how come the victims, the families that are gathered at a funeral and are insulted beyond words, stay so passive when the Phelps gang is around? Why don't 25 strong male adults among a group of 50 family members throw themselves on 10 Phelps protesters, and break every bone in their bodies? Because the demonstrators act within the law?
Yes, the rule of our American Constitutional law is something that many people have a deep and abiding respect for. In a direct encounter I, too, would have to forcibly restrain myself from doing bodily injury to Phelps and his spawn. They represent a level of depravity that cannot be countenanced by rational people.
However, descent into lawlessness is even more depraved as it will always sow the seeds for even greater abuses against far less deserving individuals.
Why don't you en mass press your senator to have these Amendments reformed?
The is nothing about Free Speech that needs to be "reformed". I can only suppose that this is a fundamental disconnect upon your part. The sanctity of Freedom of Expression is a cornerstone of a free and productive society. Much like how someone cannot be a "little bit" pregnant, there are very few, if any, restrictions that can be placed upon Free Speech without destroying it entirely.
Why are you, screaming for the extermination of fundamentalistic hate-muslims, so afraid of these Phelps creeps?
Speaking for myself, I'm not at all afraid of Phelps and his thugs. Neither would I be too afraid if some compassionate police officers hauled the Westboro scum off to jail for disturbing the peace whenever they imposed themselves upon grieving military families. I wouldn't even mind if the charges didn't stick just so long as Phelps' ratbags were temporarily detained and inconvenienced.
That's the impression I get.
It should now be clear why you have the wrong impression. If not, there's not much hope that you will ever understand American Constitutional rights.
[to be continued]
The impression I get, is that you fear they may be under God's protection.
I cannot speak for Christians but I know many who would respect Phelps' Constitutional rights and even some who would say that as a living being he is also protected by God until the time of judgment.
What I am able to say is that at some point, Phelps and his spawn will likely encounter someone or some people who will take the law into their own hands, regardless of consequences, and beat them half to death if not kill them. Wrong as it may be, I also predict that a typical jury will have some difficulty in sentencing any such individuals with truly serious crimes.
Attributed to Zenster by deDeurs:
"Do not for one moment think that I will ever abandon the truth of Christianity's superiority."
DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT MISQUOTE ME.
You have truncated my statement and intentionally added punctuation that alters both content and context.
DOING SO IS BOTH DISHONEST AND UNETHICAL AND I SUGGEST THAT YOU STOP IT AT ONCE.
My original statement was:
"Do not for one moment think that I will ever abandon the truth of Christianity's superiority over such outright scum as Islam."
What about that statement is unclear?
You have dishonestly attempted to alter my intended meaning to make it into a blanket statement.
This is not the first time that you have broken the rules of honorable forensic exchange. Previously, stated:
You can also say that God exists and that christians are a superior species, but it doesn't qualify as true.
To which I replied:
Where do I say "that God exists and that christians are a superior species". Please provide cites with URL links to comments or posts that make such statements on my behalf or feel free to piss off with your patently false accusations.
You have failed to retract or correct your intentional misstatement and it reflects poorly upon your character and honesty in this debate.
You then went on to note how:
I'm not suggesting that all of you here are of that kind, but the majority certainly backs 'm up.
To which I replied:
Please provide a reliable citation with a URL link which shows that the majority of American Christians condone "religious fanatic CHRISTIANS". Failing that, your are requested to withdraw such a patently unsupported and libelous assertion.
Once again you have failed or refused to provide proof of facts not in evidence. This is dishonest as well and needs to be addressed by yourself if you wish to maintain any sort of credibility.
deDeurs: But who are you to judge, Zenter?
My screen name is spelled “Zenster” and I judge Christianity as being superior to Islam by the existence of Western civilization; which is largely a byproduct of Judeo-Christian efforts. Islam has nothing of even the remotest sort to its credit. Another convincing bit of evidence is how someone like me would swiftly be put to death in most Islamic countries for holding the views that I have. From a subjective standpoint, that also constitutes a distinct form of superiority regarding the mostly Christian nation that I live in right now.
deDeurs: God, you say, can do anything, but can He make a distinction between catholic, baptist, jesuit, reformed, quaker's and amish faiths?
STOP ATTRIBUTING STATEMENTS TO ME THAT I HAVE NEVER MADE.
Feel free to retract such rubbish immediately. You are not entitled to read my mind nor are you allowed to make up my supposed positions out of thin air. STOP IT NOW. Capiche?
deDeurs: If Phelps had been a bit more clever, and had he been a billionaire, he could have sat in the Senate by now and maybe even in the White House.
I think you severely overestimate the gullibility of American voters. Obama is certainly cause for some doubt but to think that a hateful extremist like Phelps could ever attain high office, much less executive command of our nation is a genuine disservice to Americans in general.
You're right Zenster, he's far too radical for most Americans to swallow, but he has that dangerous sort of charisma.
You are the only one I have ever seen who describes Phelps as charismatic. Every single person I have ever encountered ― from all walks of life and across the entire political spectrum ― has unanimously recoiled in total revulsion and disgust at Phelps. I invite you to provide a link to anybody of significance who praises Phelps as charismatic.
And have we as yet puzzled out why Hitler's charisma worked so extremely well? We haven't.
Only to the unlettered. There have been many cogent analyses of why Hitler was so successful. I invite you to start with this very interesting one by Lloyd deMause
You still think I'm only ranting, Zenster?
Where have I ever accused you of ranting? Again, you play at mind reading. You were actually doing pretty well in comments #170 and #171 up and until the point where I have started my own replies.
Mind you, I may ramble as I'm not a professional writer. But do christians think God should wipe me from the face of the earth because I 'collaborate with muslims'?
Again, where is anyone suggesting that? You continue to cite facts not in evidence.
There's a saying about wooden beams in eyes.
Yes, and you would do well to correct the serious errors made by yourself, as I have listed above, before continuing to comment here.
A last out of sequence observation:
deDeurs: I mean, I could have easily been put on a permanent ban earlier.
As a closing aside, your above statement demonstrates a clear lack of appreciation for this web site. In my years of posting and commenting at Gates of Vienna I have seen Baron Bodissey "ban" less than a handful of participants and they worked very hard to earn that status. The Baron continues to be one of the most fair-minded individuals I have ever encountered on the Internet.
First of all this.
your above statement demonstrates a clear lack of appreciation for this web site. In my years of posting and commenting at Gates of Vienna I have seen Baron Bodissey "ban" less than a handful of participants and they worked very hard to earn that status.
Yes? He didn't wipe me of the face of this site after my first entries, so my conclusion and retoric question was: 'shall I continue'. I'm not familiar with this site and I don't know the person 'Baron Bodissey'. So where's my lack of appreciation in this?
Anyone maintaining a website with a public stage deserves respect. But I'm probably also one of a handful of posters that had to be censored? Baron Bodissey:
Gates of Vienna's rules about comments require that they be civil, temperate, on-topic, and show decorum. Your comment violated the last of these rules. We keep a PG-13 blog, and exclude foul language, explicit descriptions, and epithets. This is why I deleted your comment.
Use of asterisks is an appropriate alternative.
My answer was:
I agree, let's show decorum and keep this board family-friendly. The dreaded a-word that Zenster used before me in his own reaction (in #61 and all four letters of it) and which I merely quoted, isn't really that important.
I can take a joke. But I am also suspecting Baron Bodissey was pestering me. It's like someone with a fat cigar between his teeth telling me 'You can't smoke in here.'
If my reactions are seen as aggressive and spiteful, than I'm afraid such was a little bitty instigated by this rather crude joke.
Zenster, I'm not sure if I accuse. I express my opinions...
"Do not for one moment think that I will ever abandon the truth of Christianity superiority over such outright scum as Islam."
Um, my 'Right' underneath wasn't meant sarcastic. I just added a comparative. I know, I'm an awful writer.
The "500 years" part is accurate but you have just scratched the surface of shari'a law
The sharia is practised (unofficially) in Holland and England. So far we haven't seen any stoning, hanging, whipping. Honour killings; yes. But there is no sharia court that ratifies honour killing. Do realise that such atrocities are often practised in African and Arabian backwater regions. However, the reason why sharia is absolutely unwanted in Europe or America is, a nation simply cannot maintain two law systems.
I'm not suggesting that all of you here are of that kind, but the majority certainly backs 'm up.
They do. But it's not an exclusive American attitude. Muslims keeping silent and looking away are also a backing up majority. Or the Chinese. The Cubans. The Iranians. We certainly don't think that every Iranian looks, speaks and dresses like an ayatollah?
I at least do not keep silent. A pity you think I'm doing it wrong, Zenster.
My screen name is spelled “Zenster”
A typing error. I cannot correct my mistakes on line and I had a lot of trouble to post here anyway, four times out of five the sending off of my reactions was refused.
I'm aware of the American respect for the law and the amendments, the swearing on the Bible (even non-believers like me are obliged to do this, which I find discriminating) and the emotion of singing the anthem together. Do I really understand them? No, I guess not. Not fully. But the 'we are all one under one nation', does that really apply to all, Zenster? The Africans, the Puerto Ricans, the Chinese and Japanese and Vietnamese, who by now have been living in the US for a couple of generations? Black is still not beautiful, in substantial parts of the USA (while most of them are christan!) It makes the togetherness ring a bit false. Albeit chosing a black president is an improvement. Even if you think he's scr*wing things up badly.
I; not going to apologize for what I said, even if I was out of my league, and I think I was at certain moments. I tend to get carried away sometimes. However, my main message to all was: fight the islam, but don't glorify your own christian faith on behalf of that war. The Crusades and the years of the Inquisition are episodes not to be proud of. And you may think to have left these gruesome dogma's behind you in this day and age, but I doubt that. It's still the same Bible that is read and practised, you see? People who make themselves dependable of the whims of a hypothetical monotheist, it does have its advantages - less fear of dying f.i. - but altogether there's something not quite healthy to it. If you're looking for God, don't look up at the sky, look down into yourselves.
I think the bacon bookmarks, etc. were over the top and done in great disrespect for another's religious beliefs. Jesus never would have done such a thing, and neither would anyone who knows and believes that brotherly love MUST include respect for others.
I'm really sorry she did that, because I feel she had good and important things to say, but with such immature posturing she only makes us all -- and herself -- more vulnerable to the consequences of "picking fights."
deDeurs --
Let's get something straight: your earlier comment was deleted because you used a term for sexual intercourse which is considered vulgar, and which most people find offensive when used in otherwise polite conversation. That's the only reason.
If you had confined yourself to "arse", I probably wouldn't have bothered. That by itself -- unless it is used as an appellative for a fellow commenter -- is not enough to awaken my censorious zeal.
I am not "pestering" you, or picking on you, or engaging in any similar form of harrassment. I would have done the same thing to any commenter who used that particular word.
You may have noticed that I also took the time and trouble to replicate your comment in its entirety, but with the offensive words redacted. Surely I would not have bothered with that if I had anything against you...?
I am glad to see your lengthy disquisitions here, provided they stay within the rules. Your opinions, even where they differ from my own, do not trouble me in the slightest.
Just for the record, there has already been at least one Muslim murder of a woman by stoning in France. And, "of course", we have had several murders by burning the lady alive.
I don't think the latter is prescribed by the "holy Koran" or assorted islamic scriptures, as general Petraeus or secretary of Sate Clinton would say, but, hey, that just shows that Muslims are able of creativity when they really try, contrary to all those islamophobic rants accusing them of stupidly sticking to the manual.
Avocadess: I think the bacon bookmarks, etc. were over the top and done in great disrespect for another's religious beliefs.
Are you arguing that Islam doesn't routinely show "great disrespect for another's religious beliefs"? Such an attempt at equivalency falls pretty flat in the face of factual evidence.
It is difficult to think of any other creed than Islam which is so consistently and constantly disrespectful of all other religions.
Banrhardt's bacon bookmarks in her Qur'an are a fleabite on the Islamic elephant's butt when it comes to how Muslims routinely denigrate, abuse and murder those of all other faiths.
Go ahead and explain to our studio audience and all the folks at home exactly why it is that there are no churches, temples or synagogues in Saudi Arabia; even as Muslims around the world violently agitate for the construction of mosques everywhere they go.
Baron Bodissey,
Ah yes...the Afghan boys. Oh boy. I overlooked that one.
Minors will be shocked by the F-word, OK. And your euphemistic alternative will be harmless, because meaningless to them.
...
I think you underestimate 13-year olds...lol.
Did you know that all the vulgar English swearing and blaspheming Europeans practise these days, they picked up from an American, world dominating record and movie industry? I don't blame you personally for that, but just the same...
The United States of America are great, colourful, exiting and innovative in all fields. But in moral sense they also quite schizophrenic.
Nevertheless, thank you for your neutrality and the allowing of my posts. Which, I conclude, were not a great succes.
Cong. Lindsey Graham should have his head examined. Any change of our laws to accomodate Sharia law is a terrible idea. Mr. Graham: You want to let this camel get his nose under our tent and to our peril?? You are out of your cotton-picking mind.!! This is the U.S. of A. and we have all the laws needed and some useless but NO Sharia law will be tolerated!
Mark Carswell
Holy Sheeite! We need more Americans making a stand like this.
Yep I’m definitely in love!!
She speaks her mind! Nothing wrong with what she says. Seems she has balls unlike our idiot leaders in Washington, DC. She needs another line other than "jackass". She needs to throw "you assclowns" in there from time to time!
My name is Scott Perry, and this woman is right on the money. Graham, you don't speak for me, or any other American, Christian, Veteran, and you should not only be ashamed to say you represent us, you should resign IMMEDIATELY!!! Sarah Palin's running mate? I think it's the other way around! Thank God, and this fine country, for true Americans like this woman!!!
BRAVO!!! May God protect you in this battle!
My circle of protection around this young woman..
These two videos are going out to everybody I know.
.. Wouldn't it have been NICE if Sarah Peyton Place Palin and her gang had been this committed and truly patriotic?
Perhaps if "Bristol" had shown this kind of dedicated bravery on "Danceing with the Stars" she would have won?????
..
THAT statement was pure scarcasm.. just in case anyone misuderstood!
..
Are there more like this girl out there? Any age? I am 72 and I will step up beside her... and stand with her, and I am not even a religious woman, but I do NOT bow the knee to any bully.
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People, STOP being neutral... stop encouraging your brutal masters to abuse you more and more. STAND UP AND SAY NO!
Just don't "consent" any more.. (silence is consent in fact and in law)... do what this brave young woman has done.. make a resounding statement that is a "NO"!!!!
As a citizen of South Carolina, I have been actively critical of Lindsey Grahamnesty for several years now. This woman needs to move here and run against Lindsey! Her campaign slogan could me "Lindsey Graham, YOU JACKASS!" She has my vote!
Thank you young lady. You speak for many of us. In a letter to the editor of a local paper a while back I suggested wrapping Islamist terrorist caught on the battlefield in the hide of a freshly slaughtered pig and hung up in the sun to dry. They didn't print it. I have a Koran which I refer to whenever I hear our politicos talking about the "religion of peace". We appease at our own peril. Come to South Carolina. We need you here. (And everywhere else!)
Nice blog. Islam is pure evil. Christian and Jews are to Love everyone including yourself. Islam is a religion of domination, enslavment and murder in the name of Alah.
You may like my blog as well.
interesting, but the same message could have been delivered without any references to Christianity.
I'm an atheist and share the same feelings about fundamentalist, jihadist Muslims... it's a cult and a mental illness.
but I can come to the same conclusions without any references to Jesus or anyone else.
whatever...
plusaf.com: I'm an atheist and share the same feelings about fundamentalist, jihadist Muslims... it's a cult and a mental illness.
Then you've come a long way towards understanding the threat that confronts Western civilization.
but I can come to the same conclusions without any references to Jesus or anyone else.
That's all well and fine but please don't let it stop you from appreciating how predatory Islam has always been against Christians, not to mention Atheists.
As an Agnostic, I have often felt as you do but this crisis is of such dimensions that it becomes essential to put aside any smaller differences and find an alliance that will best serve the West's survival.
If you have not read all of these comments, then you might be surprised to know that, in a personal conversation, Ms. Barnhardt revealed to me how she has been contacted by many approving Atheists and Agnostics. She expressed a sincere gratitude for that support and it was refreshing to find common cause with such a clearly religious individual.
In the case of Ms. Barnhardt, her personal faith makes it vital for any message to reflect that. Given the eloquence and vehemence of how she categorically dissected Islam, I don't have much of a problem with that and would hope you might reach the same conclusion.
Have no doubts.
It’s a clash of civilizations.
Ever since the Moslems were driven from Spain in 1492 by Isabella, they have dreamed of a return to their reign. Vienna was under siege twice in the 16th & 17th centuries. South Eastern Europe was forcibly converted to Islam (Kosovo, Albania, Bulgaria, Bosnia etc.) They blew up Buddhist statues in Afghanistan and the World Trade Centre in New York City. Their Koran tells them that non-believers are wrong, must not be tolerated and must be converted or killed and that a martyr's death is preferable to subjugation by the infidel (that's you, my friend). They are infiltrating the fabric of society and the unsuspecting minds of "tolerant global citizens". The confrontation is on-going. They will win their battle for your hearts, your minds and your land if the threat is not recognized for what it is by enlightened civilization.
Nahum in Israel
NahumNigel: The confrontation is on-going. They will win their battle for your hearts, your minds and your land if the threat is not recognized for what it is by enlightened civilization.
NahumNigel, your comments are on the Shekel … er, money.
As this is a very pro-Israelite web site, please feel free to elaborate upon your own feelings about the strong Catholic orientation of Ms. Barnhardt's oratory.
It would be of great use if you might relate your own personal perceptions about her attitude and how they coincide with yours.
PS: Welcome aboard.
Don't waste your energy fighting Islam.
Read Romans 12. There is no power, fut that which the Creator of the Universe allows.
It is all a part of the final battle. In the mean time, God is love, and that needs to be exercised even if it mean death, which the cross of Calvary shows, death is no big deal with the God who loves us.
Fight evil with love,
Justice will not prevail until the Great White Throne Judgement.
Gene
Gene: Justice will not prevail until the Great White Throne Judgement.
If there is one single thing that Islam has always punished most severely, it is inaction.
Recommending any sort of complacency or inactivity in the face of Islam is suicide.
Ann Barnhardt, If any need any help with long range security. send a email to snow1dragon@hotmail.com I know at 1800 yards there all is good.
Ann Barnhardt, I stand beside you God Bless You, and God Bless America. All should see this wake up America.
This was painful. Like watching a train wreck. This woman does so many things wrong, it's difficult to list them all. Suffice to say, the best thing she does is read some passages from the Quran that cast doubt upon the Muslim religion. The worst thing? Wow. It's difficult to choose but i'll take that sweeping statement from 9:30 - 10:00 about "most Muslim boys are anally and orally raped before they reach puberty. And most men in Muslim society are homosexual pedophiles." i'd like to see some factual backup on that one.
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