Tuesday, January 18, 2011

The Trial of Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff, Day 2

ESW Copenhagen Nov. 2010
(Photo ©2010 Snaphanen)

Elisabeth’s case has been adjourned until February 15th at 10:30am. Read Henrik’s final report for more details.

Many thanks to Henrik Ræder Clausen for the live feed and the photos, and to Tundra Tabloids for the relay.

Update: Gandalf’s French-language account has been posted at VV&D.

German-language articles are available at Europe News and Politically Incorrect.

ESW trial, day 2, #4 — Vienna town hall

Final update 11:12am, from Henrik:

Dr. Rami interrupts to point out that the quiet, factual tone of the seminar demonstrates that this is not hate speech, but an educational setting going through relevant documentation.

Dr. Rami also highlights the question from the first seminar, if it would remain legal to say “Islam is bull****”, pointing out that this was not a statement of fact (visual ‘quoting’ had been used by ESW to indicate this). The relevant seminar recording is selected to be played next.

Back to the seminar tapes. Euro-Islam is discussed. “Muslims hate us”. Elisabeth is heard saying: “Who here would dare go in the street with a sign: ‘Islam is Bull****!’?”

The judge discusses the charges, and the statement that the conduct of Muhammad is exemplary for Muslims, including the problem of Muhammad marrying a six-year-old girl, and what exactly that would be called today, if not paedophilia.

Dr. Rami interrupts the playback, pointing out that the purpose of playing the tapes has been accomplished, namely demonstrating that the sessions were scholarly, thoroughly documented, and in no way constituted “incitement to hatred” or similar.

Judge Neubauer adjourns the hearing, scheduling the next one for February 15th at 10:30.

[Reason for the adjournment, according to German-language sources:

The judge has introduced a new point: discrimination against religious beliefs. Elisabeth’s lawyer was not prepared for this.]


Update: The Judge (name not given):

ESW trial, day 2, #3

10:00am: Brief update from Henrik:

ESW trial, day 2, #2Next mentioned is Taqiyya — the permission and/or obligation to lie towards non-Muslims when doing so will further the cause of Islam. Quran, Bukhari and Muslim scriptural references are given for this. Also described in detailed in Reliance of the Traveller chapter 8.

Dr. Rami interrupts, asking for a clarification of the relevance of this passage. There seems to be a difference from the transcript. PowerPoint presentations are brought out to clarify.

The religiously-sanctioned lying is difficult for our politicians to handle. It is not clearly described in the Quran, is mainly based on Hadith, drawn on Muhammad’s tactics against his enemies.

Some discussion with the audience follows. References are made to a variety of Quran verses, and the principle of abrogation in Islam.


Update: Photo of Elisabeth and her lawyer (credit Henrik Ræder Clausen):

ESW trial, day 2, #1

Update 9:50am (Vienna time), from Henrik:

Some 30 persons are present, including several journalists and Austrian television.

Defence hands over the translation of relevant parts of Reliance of the Traveller. The judge verifies basic personal facts about ESW, then proceeds directly to playing the seminar tapes. Noise is quite audible in the recordings. This goes to the heart of our problems with terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism, and will be reproduced in part here.

First issue taken up is the Muslim Brotherhood and its extensive political influence in Austria and Europe, and their desire to implement religious rule (Sharia) where possible, and the use of terrorism to pursue this objective. The lamentable lack of strong, moderate voices from Islam.

The Hadith is quoted, for it consists of what Muhammad did and said, the ideal for pious Muslims and the foundation for Sharia law, which basically codifies Quranic commandments and behaviour described in the Hadith into what is today Islamic law.

ESW: There is no Islam without Sharia, that cannot be separated. Sharia-based societies have been known for many centuries, and still exist today. The aim is to establish an order of society similar to that Muhammad had decreed and exemplified. The ultimate aim of Islamists today remains the same: to implement Sharia as widely as possible, ideally throughout the world. Sura 9:5 is an example of these:

Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islâmic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikûn (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, then leave their way free. Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

(as-Salat is Islamic prayer, Zakat Islamic tax.)


Update: Henrik’s report from just before the trial:

9:14: It’s a hazy day in Vienna, and we’re awaiting the start of the second hearing in the case against Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff, who is charged with ”Inciting hatred” and ”Denigrating the teachings of a recognized religion” in her seminar to FPÖ about political Islam.

At the first hearing on 23rd November 2010, the basic charges were laid out, with the prosecutor quoting a few passages as foundation about the case, followed by ESW and her lawyer detailing the context for what was said, supplying details and sources for each.

Also the journalist from NEWS.at, Dolna, was present at the first hearing, where she was permitted to witness for the prosecutor, in spite of her not being called to do so. She was asked to explain various issues of her original article, including the reasons for attributing quotes from other people to ESW, and her use of remarks during the breaks as if they were parts of the seminar. She quoted ”Dramaturgic reasons” for doing so.

The current issue of NEWS.at has a follow-up to their original article, with references to the FPÖ chairman Heinz-Christian Strache supporting ESW. The article notes that in this hearing, actual evidence in the form of recordings from the seminar will be presented, stating that this is probably a bad idea for the defence.

We are certainly looking forward to actual evidence being presented, as not even the prosecutor had gone through the original evidence in the first hearing, relying instead on the transcript provided by NEWS.at. A certified German translation of select passages of Reliance of the Traveller has been prepared by the defence, to document that the interpretations provided by ESW are indeed in line with canonical Islamic law.

ESW arrives. Session starts


Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff returns to court in Vienna today for the second part of her “hate speech” trial.

This post has been prepared in advance for live-blogging. When I get up, I’ll check in with the other members of the team and post trial-related news and information here.

The trial starts at 9am Vienna time, which is 3am my time, but Elisabeth says that nothing much is likely to happen before noon (6am EST), since the playing of the tape of the entire seminar is the first thing on the schedule.

If you show up here before I do, look in at Tundra Tabloids to see if KGS has any news on the trial. Henrik Ræder Clausen will be feeding information directly from the courtroom to KGS, who will mirror it at the English-language section of the Save Free Speech website, which will also post a German version. A French translation is scheduled for the VV&D site.

I’ll add updated information to the top of this post as the day wears on. See you here whenever I can drag myself out of bed!


Previous posts about the hate speech case against Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff:

2009 Dec 5 Fighting a Hate Speech Charge in Austria
    11 Heckling the Counterjihad
    14 Whose Law?
    17 Defaming the Muslims of Pinkafeld
2010 Mar 11 A Mother and an Activist
    20 An Austrian “Hate School”
    22 Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff at the Freedom Defense Initiative
    29 Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff and the Wiener Akademikerbund
  Sep 9 “Islam is a Political Ideology Disguised as a Religion”
    16 “Justice Must Not Be Made the Handmaiden of Sharia”
    17 The Truth Does Not Matter
  Oct 11 Interview With Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff
    16 Is the Truth Illegal in Austria?
    20 A Court Date for Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff
    21 BPE Press Release on Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff
    22 Elisabeth’s Voice: An Appeal
    23 Elisabeth’s Voice: A Follow-Up
    24 Raising Our Voices
    25 Elisabeth’s Voice is Growing
    27 Elisabeth’s Voice: More Information
    27 A Bit More Media Attention?
    28 We Are Elisabeth’s Voice
    30 Elisabeth’s Voice in Amsterdam
    31 Mark Steyn Joins Elisabeth’s Voice
  Nov 2 Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff: Target of Western Shariah
    6 Anatomy of a Discussion with a Leftist Journalist
    8 ESW in the WSJ
    10 “The Left is Very Much the New Far Right”
    11 Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff Versus the State of Denial
    17 Elisabeth’s Voice: An Update
    15 The New English Review Interviews Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff
    20 Live-Blogging the Trial of Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff
    20 The ESW Defense File
    23 The Trial of Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff, Day 1
    27 The Time That is Given Us
    28 ESW at Trykkefrihedsselskabet
  Dec 5 An Oasis of Civilization in a Desert of Barbarism
    22 An Unusual Hobby
    23 In Demand Everywhere
2011 Jan 14 ESW: Thoughts Before a Trial
    14 Live-Blogging the Trial of Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff, Part Two
    16 ESW: A Submission to the Court in Vienna

15 comments:

4Symbols said...

In hoc signo vinces

Big man, pig man, ha ha charade you are.
You well heeled big wheel, ha ha charade you are.
And when your hand is on your heart,
You're nearly a good laugh,
Almost a joker,
With your head down in the pig bin,
Saying "Keep on digging."
Pig stain on your fat chin.
What do you hope to find.
When you're down in the pig mine.
You're nearly a laugh,
You're nearly a laugh
But you're really a cry.


This trial is judicial madness cowering to islam end this judicial charade of self-abasement NOW.

Olorin said...

Affirming your diagnosis of "self-abasement," I note the role played by the decay of Christian worldview that engenders such pathological cultural self-flagellation.

Decay can be due either to pious mystical distortion (like the mediaeval cult of flagellati) or to liberal denial of absolute truth which, derivative from ideas of salvation by suffering, wishes to participate in suffering through a false-humility that denies truth as if such denial were a virtue that can work to save them. Hmmm.... very interesting.

goethechosemercy said...

Christian self-sacrifice is being re-interpreted as secular self-destruction.
To destroy one's self is not to give one's self.
When will Westerners really start thinking about what their culture is?

4Symbols said...

In hoc signo vinces

Self-abasement is prevalent in the U.K. the rumour is that the Conservative party is full of them. They do not believe in Christ they think they are the Christ and want to lead us all to crucifixion.

self-loathing on the left and self-abasement on the right I will stand on the rock of fortitude.

rumcrook™ said...

the judge has introduced a new point discrimination against religious beleifs????!!!!

is she the prosecutor too????


aqnd what does that mean???

if a religion pops up that says it needs to gather up other peoples children and sacrifice them on a giant alter, are we not allowed to discriminate against that religion?

well thats islam. it eats the blood of beleivers and non beleivers alike.

Zenster said...

This is outrageous!

Also the journalist from NEWS.at, Dolna, was present at the first hearing, where she was permitted to witness for the prosecutor, in spite of her not being called to do so. She was asked to explain various issues of her original article, including the reasons for attributing quotes from other people to ESW, and her use of remarks during the breaks as if they were parts of the seminar. She quoted ”Dramaturgic reasons” for doing so. [emphasis added]

A journalist is supposed to report the TRUTH. ”Dramaturgic reasons” cannot and must not be allowed to conflict with the reporting of that truth. It resembles Dan Rather's attempt to throw an American presidential election with patently falsified "documents" and the equally false NBC Dateline report "Waiting to Explode?", where incendiary devices were used to dramatically enhance a car collision intended to expose the vulnerability of General Motors trucks.

Such ”Dramaturgic reasons” have no place in the presentation of factual information. In the case of CBS, it was essentially obsessive Liberal bias taken to criminal lengths. NBC's Dateline case more closely represents a form of malfeasance similar to that of NEWS.at reporter Veronika Dolna.

However, all of it falls under this perverted modern reportorial rubric of "Fake but Accurate" and only provides more momentum for the totally warped concept of "truthiness".

Veronika Dolna needs to be brought up on libel and slander charges so she can answer in open court regarding the false attributions so blatantly fabricated by her for the sake of ”Dramaturgic reasons”.

Perhaps paying a five or six digit fine might deter her and others of her ilk from twisting the facts in order to suit their own personal agendas.

Henrik R Clausen said...

Yes, "Dramaturgic reasons". I was present in the court when Veronika Dolna said precisely that.

Next pertinent legal questions:

Is it legal to state that what Mo did back in 7th century Arabia would today be considered 'Paedophilia'?

Seriously! 'Interesting' times we're living in...

Henrik R Clausen said...

BTW, I do believe it was the Prosecutor who modified the charges. He didn't utter one word during the hearing today.

Ex-Dissident said...

This judge sure loves her sweets. Was the case adjourned for a lunch break, until mid February?

gsw said...

The ORF (Austrian TV) has reported on this too. While it is positive that, finally, someone takes notice, they should be prosequted for 'incitement'.
Header of their report:
ESW states that "Der muslim lügt" (the muslim lies - is a liar).

It just gets worse from: ESW said islam was BS (she did not!)
ESW claims Muhammed hat a "thing for little girls"

I will not bore you - but it definitely biased!

Unfortunately the article did not carry the name of the author (ashamed?) so it may be hard to complain.
However, we should ALL try!

For German speakers:
http://wien.orf.at/stories/493645/

Henrik R Clausen said...

I think the ORF is an issue for the lawyer to deal with.

John said...

As a devout National Socialist I believe that Adolf Hitler was sent by God to enlighten the Nordic races and that Mein Kampf was divinely inspired. Hence I feel offended when anyone criticises Adolf Hitler and his teaching in any way. Why aren'y my religious beliefs protected in the same way as Mahometanism?

kimjongun said...

Surely the Moslems should be asked to prove that the Koran was written by the moon god Allah. If it were in fact written by humans then criticism of it is no worse than any criticism of a literary work.

Henrik R Clausen said...

John, Islam has explicit recognition under Austrian law, National Socialism does not. Therefore.

Update: It has been clarified that it was indeed judge Neubauer who modified the charges, asking the Prosecutor if that was OK with him. That is, strangely, possible under Austrian law.

Henrik R Clausen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.