Tuesday, September 07, 2010

Fear of the Nazi Street

Based on some recent comments, my point about Gen. David H. Petraeus is not getting across. It has nothing to do with whether anyone should or shouldn’t burn a Koran.

My point is that something has gone deeply, catastrophically wrong with the way our top political leaders and military commanders conceptualize and conduct the current war.

Perhaps a little historical analogy will help clarify matters:

Eisenhower Warns Against Planned Burning of Mein Kampf

LONDON, June 19, 1944 — The top American commander in Normandy has warned that plans by a small Florida church to burn copies of Mein Kampf on Tuesday, the anniversary of the Nazi invasion of Russia, could play into the hands of the very extremists at whom the church says it is directing that message.

Hitler in a turbanBurning copies of Mein Kampf, the founding document of Nazism, “would undoubtedly be used by extremists in Germany — and around the world — to inflame public opinion and incite violence,” the commander, Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower said in a telegram to The Associated Press on Tuesday.

Echoing remarks the general made in an interview with The Wall Street Journal published Friday, he said: “It could endanger troops and it could endanger the overall effort. It is precisely the kind of action the SS uses and could cause significant problems. Not just here, but everywhere in the world we are engaged with the Nazi community.”

In 1943, violent and sometimes lethal riots were set off around the world by a mistaken report by Newsweek that a Pentagon investigation had found that military interrogators of detainees at a camp in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, tried to flush a copy of Mein Kampf down a toilet. The same year, a Canadian newspaper that printed cartoons portraying Adolf Hitler also led to riots across the Nazi world.
- - - - - - - - -
Terry Jones, the pastor of the tiny Florida church that plans the Mein Kampf burning, says that as an American Christian he has a right to burn Mein Kampf because “it’s full of lies.”

Some of his prior attempts to incite anti-Nazi fervor have met with less public attention. Last year, he posted a sign at his church declaring “Nazism is of the devil.”

Nazi leaders in several countries, including Holland and Hungary, have formally condemned him and his church, the Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, which has 50 members.

In Normandy, meanwhile, a district governor from Rouen was assassinated by Gestapo insurgents on Monday night along the Caen-Bayeux highway in the north of Normandy, officials said.

The real NYT article is here.

Is everything a little clearer now?

We’re not waging a war. We’re playing cute little games and being nicey-nicey to people who have declared themselves to be our implacable enemies.

Treating them kindly will not change their minds. Only our conversion to Islam or our surrender and submission to Islamic dominance — or our deaths — will make them feel differently about us.

51 comments:

ole said...

Baron
That was a very brave thing you just did .
And funny too !
As a former soldier I have only one minor good thing to say about the war in afghanistan : A real army needs to fight ,and EVEN this is better than nothing...

Anonymous said...

So what should we do? Ignore all the Muslims and kick them out of our land? Kill all them all?

Do you have other suggestions as to how we might change their medieval culture to something more liberal that somehow includes killing them?

Manu Rodríguez said...

Dear Baron Bodissey.
I am very grateful for your reply. Not hoped it, the truth. Although the blog are in Spanish you can include it in your list of anti-Islam blogs that you are on the cover (there are already some). I sent recently a couple of comments to ‘DanielPipes.org’; are related to the construction of the mosque at ground zero, you will see them there (post ‘Reflections on an Islamic Center in Lower Manhattan’).
I would like to participate in the international fight against Islam. I have been doing for years (although my blog has only two years). Europe is much worse than USA; Europe is almost lost, and its people are sleeping, confused, intimated; both ordinary citizens and despicable political class. They would be extreme measures necessary to resolve the problem of Islam in Europe.
The name of your blog is very good and meaningful. It would be good to also remember the battle of Lepanto (1571), which stopped the Turkish advance by the Western Mediterranean, and that the quota of the Spanish armada was essential; Cervantes participated in this battle. Also that, after the reconquest of Granada, which marked the end of the Reconquest in the Iberian Peninsula, it proceeded, in the 16th and 17TH expulsion of Muslims (moriscos) remains in Spain. These dedicated to collaborate with the north-Africans pirates who wasted the Spanish coasts by slaves, and they were really important internal danger.
Expulsion of Muslims in contemporary Europe could be this extreme measure of which I speak. Europe, from North to South, is disintegrating, and does not react. Europe, the European Europe, can disappear in 50 years. The current times are decisive; we must not lose any longer. But, as I say, the population lives on the back of this severe and terrible problem.
I see that you are recovering the film ‘El Cid’ (which was called Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar), our medieval hero; my surname (Rodrigu-ez) derives its name and means ‘son of Rodrigo’.
*
Again thanks for everything. Until the next,
Manu (http://larespuestadeeuropa.blogspot.com/)

Anonymous said...

To the one-world-without-borders globalists who populate our government, America is no longer a sovereign nation but just one of many markets.

Our borders do not define where one nation ends and one begins but where one market begins and the other ends.

Our military doesn't defend American interests anymore but "everyone's" interests. We are all just colors on a map signifying geography but not culture.

Baron Bodissey said...

Kekeke --

It’s a fair question. The Alliance to Stop Sharia has one simple rule: Sharia is absolutely incompatible with our constitutions, and no instances of it or concessions to it must ever be permitted.

If we adhered to that, devout Muslims would be discouraged from immigrating, and those here would be more likely to leave, because they cannot truly practice their faith without sharia law.

However, our present debilitated condition is too far advanced for this remedy to be enough. We must also:

1. Stop all immigration from Islamic countries, period;

2. Deport all criminal Muslim immigrants after they serve their sentences, revoking the citizenship of naturalized citizens as required; and

3. Fight any wars abroad as if they were real wars, and not social welfare exercises.

Concerning Afghanistan — if it really does need to be defeated, then defeat it utterly: reduce its cities and towns to rubble, install a compliant puppet to rule over the ruins after we leave, and change tyrants whenever necessary.

Forget making friends. Forget winning hearts and minds. Such strategies have never worked, and they never will. That’s not how we won WW2.

As John Derbyshire says, rubble don’t cause trouble.

ole said...

Keke
When You are in an aparantly impossible situation , you have to play like a tennisplayer tree sets behind : take each ball as it comes ,and WINN it ,without thinking about the impossible amount of struggle waiting ahead.
For now the fight is to stop the ideological and political supremacy of the " progessive" left by exposing their irrational and cowardly nature . If and when that will sucseed , we'll just take a short brake , dry our tears for lost comrades , and go looking for the next fight where ever it might be . Forever .

Gort said...

Aye, aye Baron,

John Derbyshire says, rubble don’t cause trouble.

Tiberius said, "Oderint dum metuant".

I say, ave plumbum (or as a pun, a hail of lead).

Beaucoup 7.62

Durotrigan said...

Pasadenaphil, you’re spot on with your perception about the globalists who infest the US Government and the governments of the other leading states of the Western world. We need moderate nationalism in each of our states in order to stand a hope of winning the struggle against Islamisation. Our first step must be to campaign for politicians who actually represent our interests in our countries i.e. they must remember that they are representatives of the people, not transnational corporations. Moderate nationalism is the other side of democracy’s coin. Leftists have of course sought to deny that there is such a thing as moderate nationalism and to equate it with Nazism, fascism, racism, etc, etc. The mainstream representatives of global corporations stigmatise anti-globalists as populists, xenophobes and demagogues, when in reality we are true democrats (I’m not referring to the US political party here).

Baron, I’m in total agreement with you when you outline the minimum that needs to be done to defeat our foe. If we are to fight a hot war against it anywhere, then we must fight it as a total war, for that in essence is what it is, for it is an ideological struggle for the survival of our various strands of Western civilisation. However, we cannot hope to effectively fight such a war or series of wars when we are allowing ever-larger and increasingly powerful Islamist fifth columns to grow in our homelands. To deal with the menace at home, we must put an end to the politically correct multiculturalist ideology that is strangling our countries.

With respect to our collective approach within Afghanistan, if the military is to stay there, it should seek to eradicate Islam as it sought to eradicate Nazism from postwar Germany. Mass apostasy needs to be encouraged. The objective must be the total de-islamisation of the country. Talk to the Taliban? What, in that case, have our service personnel died for?

Zenster said...

A history lesson as eloquent as it is obvious.

How rare, indeed.

Thank you, Baron.

Nilk said...

2. Deport all criminal Muslim immigrants after they serve their sentences, revoking the citizenship of naturalized citizens as required;


I'd deport them straight away.

With the cushy circumstances in a lot of Western jails, and the amount of money spent on them there, the opportunity to expand their ranks with criminals through conversion, why do we want them here?

Anonymous said...

. Fight any wars abroad as if they were real wars, and not social welfare exercises.

Concerning Afghanistan — if it really does need to be defeated, then defeat it utterly: reduce its cities and towns to rubble, install a compliant puppet to rule over the ruins after we leave, and change tyrants whenever necessary.


You don't see how this can backfire? Destroy the homes of millions of people then duck out and allow them to get pissed off for the next few decades while deposing whatever "puppet tyrant" we put in place? We're just looking at another Iranian revolution.

Not to mention how we would look to other people. The US apparently thinks it can destroy the infrastructure of a nation along with thousands of innocents all because a shady international organization had bases there.

The goal is to defeat the terrorism. Destroying homes, leaving, then spitting on their beliefs is not going to solve anything.

Anne said...

You've got a sense of humor, and post is great laugh.

The situation in Afghanistan seems so hopeless I just wonder if just leaving is the answer.
But that has its problems too...Taliban rushes in in full force, etc. etc.

It seems a problem with no solution. It is very depressing and I dont know what to think.

Zenster said...

Kekeke: You don't see how this can backfire? Destroy the homes of millions of people then duck out and allow them to get pissed off for the next few decades while deposing whatever "puppet tyrant" we put in place? We're just looking at another Iranian revolution.

Ah, yes. The old argument of, "Killing terrorists just makes more terrorists."

Practicing Islam is not sufficiently painful for Muslims. When it is, they will no longer practice it. Just as Christians and Jews in Muslim-majority countries were obliged to abandon their faiths or properties or both, so will Muslims learn to foresake Islam.

Muslims have not even begun to experience anywhere near the sort of retribution they deserve for Islam's incessant slaughter. When they finally do, apostasy will look like one of the best ideas ever to come down the pike.

Nothing will change so long as Muslims fear abandoning Islam more than they fear the price of upholding it.

Islam has managed to survive this long only because weapons of mass destruction did not previously exist. Now that they do, Islam's doom is sealed.

Even a world dominated by Islam would still see nuclear war between Muslims as part of their endless internecine struggle for Islamic "purity".

It is highly improbable that Islam will ever get close to obtaining its global caliphate before some nuclear-armed nation decides to end this monstrous charade.

Modern Islam's military incompetence is legendary. Nobody, repeat, nobody is going to take over the world using terrorism. Period.

The only question which remains is how many unbelievers must die before Islam is eradicated from this world. That is all.

Anonymous said...

Kekeke:

Terrorism is a tactic; you can't fight a war against a tactic. You are obfuscating the situation by saying this. Our war is with Islam, the political, pseudo-religious thing called Islam. And furthermore, who cares what we look like to the rest of the world? Russia does not care what the rest of the world thinks and their foreign policy is a lot more successful than ours at this point.

Godffrey said...

The analogy between Muslims and Nazis is an apt one, but there is one crucial difference between the two: if the Nazis had won it would not have meant the death of the west. Also, if they had won there wouldn't even be any Muslims in Europe besides the (manageable) few who were already there.

EscapeVelocity said...

Nothing will change so long as Muslims fear abandoning Islam more than they fear the price of upholding it. -- Zenster

Bingo!

Siegetower said...

Kekeke: "The US apparently thinks it can destroy the infrastructure of a nation along with thousands of innocents all because a shady international organization had bases there.
"

Clinton already did that to Serbia and the Orthodox Christians there in one of his leftist administrations' dozens of international military interventions.

If you look at historical precedent, the British Empire period of India actually had serious problems with the tribal muslim areas of what is now Pakistan. The solution was to ride into the muslim valleys with Sikh troops led by English officers, and burn every village down to the ground - a little known tactic which offends our modern sensibilities. But it got results, those muslim areas spent the next generation rebuilding their mud huts, too busy in that rebuilding to bother ANYONE.

I'm thinking that the recent Pakistani floods may have some of the same effects. Time will tell.

EscapeVelocity said...

Indeed Siegetower.

General William Tecumseh Sherman was the greatest US couter-insurgency General ever.

And this is comimg from a Confederate sympathizer. He crushed the South, period.

Darrin Hodges said...

"Ignore all the Muslims and kick them out of our land?"

Would be a start.

Profitsbeard said...

What would Islam do if it had the West's military power?

What does the Koran demand of its believers when they control the strongest Sword?

Would they worry about what the infidel dogs said if they protested Islam's push for the conquest of the Earth?

Or would they do what they have done for 1350 years - endless imperialistic rapine, wanton depredations, sex slavery, library burnings, temple and church and synagogue destruction, wholesale exterminations, and a scorched earth policy, gruesomely cheered on by the terroristic tenets of their warlord "prophet"?

The West faces a "religion" whose goals are grimmer than the Nazis and Commies and Fascists and Japanese Militarists combined.

A global gulag run by totalitarian theocratic crazies.

It will not stand.

Nor shall Islam.

Unless it tears the Terror out of the Koran and Reforms its Spirit.

A faint hope exists for this.

It would be better for Muslims if they did, but unlikely that they shall.

And their choice will determine either the survival of a remade, pacified Islam, ~or its extinction.

Anonymous said...

Zenster:
Practicing Islam is not sufficiently painful for Muslims.
Okay Stalin.

I'm not going to discuss ethics with somebody who promotes genocide.

Natalie:
Terrorism is a tactic; you can't fight a war against a tactic. You are obfuscating the situation by saying this.

LOL. This is coming from the subscriber of the blogger who is comparing the situation in Afghanistan with World War II. I think you and I are in agreement in this part-- perhaps you should be arguing with Baron.

Our war is with Islam, the political, pseudo-religious thing called Islam.

You don't fight a memetic war through bullets. What we are trying to fight here is a medieval rationality that existed since the rise of fundamentalism in the Middle-East. That's what we're fighting-- fundamentalist. Not Islam. The middle-east was a golden age of science when Europe was falling through the Dark Ages caused by Emperor Justinian and the Church. You would be hard pressed, damn hard pressed, to find any field of study that didn't have Islamic researchers from 7th century to 13th century doing the same work. Even Roger Bacon, one of the creators of the Scientific Method, was influenced by Islamic scholars. What's the scientific method to the West today? It was only the Crusades and Mongol invasions which caused its decline. Foreign invaders attacking and destroying their cities-- just like today.

Tell me, are you a Christian?

You New said...

This substitution technique helps with the deprogramming. Please keep it up, Baron.

General P's attack on Koran protest is a disappointment. Maybe he's getting nervous and looking to blame his probable failure on someone. Regardless, books should not be protected from burning.

General P's real problem is that you can martyr a couple hundred Taliban every day but there are tens of thousands of extra boys in Pakistan, Iran, etc. getting ready to take their place. Time for Taliban demographics.

What is with this slow war stuff? Or is it meant to fail and why?

I say we get out of Heroin-istan, and all nations involved, take your troops and put them on your own borders.

A religion that is so trite and defensive as to come unglued upon a book burning or a little mocking is a weak one.

I read a gilt hardbound Koran in 1998. Pretty though the book was, the inside was vile and detestable. I had no idea what I was getting into. I had always heard it was a legitimate religion.

After finishing reading it in 1999 I had an insight and disposed of that Koran in a gas station trash can.

And Kekeke, regarding your comment above, prepare to receive a bit of education.

Robert said...

The rise of reason owed nothing to Islam or the Greeks. There were no Islamic "scientists", they were all dhimmis but even they had little to do with the spread of practical reason which started in medieval Christian Europe. Read anything by Rodney Stark and educate yourself.

Siegetower said...

Or for that matter, Kekeke, read Bat Ye'Or, Andrew Bostom, Fjordman.

The 'Golden Age' of islam was built with slave labour of the conquered Christian and Jewish populations of the Middle East which waned as those populations decayed through slavery, forced migrations, forced conversions and cultural destruction. Ask an educated Copt, Chaldean, Maronite, or Christian Syrian about the destruction of their society under 1400 years of islam.

The knowledge base of early islam is well documented as largely consisting translations of Greco-Roman libraries when documents suited the muslims. Destruction of the rest. Ask an educated Indian how many Indian scholarly breakthroughs and inventions have been appropriated into being 'islamic' knowledge.

Islam in its' early years was like the Borg of Star Trek. All peoples they come across and their knowledge were conquered, the useful remanufactured as muslims' own technology, the unimportant destroyed.

And mentioning the Crusades...yes the Crusades made mistakes. But condemning the Western reaction to the brutality of the muslims rather than the brutality of the muslims themselves that led to the Western Reaction...Read more.

kritisk_borger said...

Hmm.. According to this clip on youtube the US army did burn several confiscated bibles in Afghanistan.

As far as I know no major riots were reported as a result of this book burning.

The only thing these holy books are good for if you ask me is as toilet paper.

Anonymous said...

The rise of reason owed nothing to Islam or the Greeks.

LOL. For one, it's a Strawman. I never said Islam spurred the rise of science, imbecile, I said Natalie is blaming the wrong cause. Two, to say Greeks gave nothing in the way of science of philosophy is a fucking LAUGH. "Eureka!" ring a bell?

There were no Islamic "scientists", they were all dhimmis but even they had little to do with the spread of practical reason which started in medieval Christian Europe.

Bullshit. Roger Bacon was influenced by Islamic philosophers you twit. Rodney Stark is a closet Christian that argues against the rest of the academic community.


The 'Golden Age' of islam was built with slave labour of the conquered Christian and Jewish populations of the Middle East which waned as those populations decayed through slavery, forced migrations, forced conversions and cultural destruction.

This is the most laughable thing I've heard in this blog. That uneducated slaves were the cause of breakthroughs by Islamic scholars. Or that Greek libraries were raided by Muslims are the reason why they're credited. I wonder why Christian Europe doesn't have this information given they had copies of every prominent Greek intellectual since the time of Socrates. Maybe is was the Christian Emperor who burned down the Academy, Lycaeum, and every other wealth of knowledge he could find.

Face it, you read books that you know ahead of time are written and printed for Islamophobes like you. You clutch to the few credited scholars that agree with your worldview. That is that everything good in the modern world was created by good white Christians like yourself.

Sean O'Brian said...

Blogger ate my comment.

Here is the short version:

The US military has past experience in showing excessive deference for the Koran. Two years ago Major General Jeffrey Hammond apologised after a US soldier used a Koran for target practice. A military official (not the Maj-Gen) kissed a Koran and presented it to Iraqi tribal leaders as "a humble gift".

U.S. soldier uses Quran for target practice; military apologizes

"I come before you here seeking your forgiveness," Hammond said to tribal leaders and others at the apology ceremony. "In the most humble manner I look in your eyes today and I say please forgive me and my soldiers."

[...]

A tribal leader said "the criminal act by U.S. forces" took place at a shooting range at the Radhwaniya police station.

[...]

"The actions of one soldier were nothing more than criminal behavior," Hammond said. "I've come to this land to protect you, to support you -- not to harm you -- and the behavior of this soldier was nothing short of wrong and unacceptable."

Old Atlantic Lighthouse said...

Brilliantly funny. It does show Islam is the enemy not just radical Islam. Therefore Muslims should be deported. QED.

The policy after WWII and up to now is if they find out someone was a Nazi who immigrated to the US then they are deported even today.

So that is the answer. If a person immigrated to the US who was Muslim, deport them same as you would deport a Nazi who immigrated to the US. The latter is the actual law and the actual practice.

MSM celebrates that policy.

Sean O'Brian said...

The US military has past experience in showing excessive deference for the Koran. Two years ago Major General Jeffrey Hammond apologised after a US soldier used a Koran for target practice. A military official (not the Maj-Gen) kissed a Koran and presented it to Iraqi tribal leaders as "a humble gift".

U.S. soldier uses Quran for target practice; military apologizes

"I come before you here seeking your forgiveness," Hammond said to tribal leaders and others at the apology ceremony. "In the most humble manner I look in your eyes today and I say please forgive me and my soldiers."

[...]

A tribal leader said "the criminal act by U.S. forces" took place at a shooting range at the Radhwaniya police station.

[...]

"The actions of one soldier were nothing more than criminal behavior," Hammond said. "I've come to this land to protect you, to support you -- not to harm you -- and the behavior of this soldier was nothing short of wrong and unacceptable."

Anonymous said...

Kekeke, you're wrong. You are not just ignorant about Islam (you really need to brush up on your history and Islamic theology), you are also ignorant about Eastern Christianity. Justinian did not cause any sort of dark age. You also misunderstand the Crusades, an attempt (and a successful one) by the Western Church to eradicate the Byzantine Empire by teaming up with Islam.

There is nothing fundamentalist about what we are fighting: it is Islam in its purest form. These jihadis, for lack of a better term, are following what the Qur'an says: killing infidels.

I do not know what bearing my religion has on my argument. If you must know, I am an atheist.

And by the way, in what way did Zenster espouse genocide? Besides the obvious error that genocide is committed against ethnic groups and Islam is not an ethnic group, you are mistaken or must be misinterpreting his comment.

Even with the Baron's further clarifications, you still seem to misunderstand the point.

Anonymous said...

I guess I've been banned from commenting on your blog.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Part II.

@Natalie:

Kekeke, you're wrong. You are not just ignorant about Islam (you really need to brush up on your history and Islamic theology), you are also ignorant about Eastern Christianity. Justinian did not cause any sort of dark age. You also misunderstand the Crusades, an attempt (and a successful one) by the Western Church to eradicate the Byzantine Empire by teaming up with Islam.


LOL. Justinian is probably the key reason why the Dark Ages came about. He is the person that burned non-Christian text, like those of Aristotle (ironic that Aquinas would make the Church adopt his philosophy as their own), who we only have a third of his writings.

And the Crusades were not about destroying the Byzantine Empire. The Crusades were about retaking the holy land and repelling the Muslim invaders ON the Byzantine Empire. It wasn't until the 4th Crusade that Crusaders ignored their designation of Egypt and sacked Constantinople-- something Pope Innocent III raged over.


There is nothing fundamentalist about what we are fighting: it is Islam in its purest form.

That's what fundamentalism means, FYI. Islam in it's purest form is just as sick and disgusting as Christianity in its purest form. It's just happenstance that the Age of Enlightenment happened in Europe instead of the Middle-East, which is arguably what the Middle-East was headed for until the Mongol invasions and the sacking of Baghdad which prevented it.

Going by your logic, all Christians are no better than Muslims because they practice an ancient and backwards faith. Just read the book of Leviticus to understand. For some reason you're picking on Islam rather than every faith that harbors the same evil tenets. But you don't-- you seem to be arguing that Christians are better than Muslims. Explain why.

Baron Bodissey said...

Kekeke --

Gates of Vienna's rules about comments require that they be civil, temperate, on-topic, and show decorum. Your comment violated the second of these rules.

Since you are relatively new here, for this one time I’m reposting your comment with appropriate redactions for civility. Read the rules; they’re on the commenting window.

----------------------

Kekeke said...

I see my last post was either deleted or the site ate it.

Short version: Robert is wrong about Greeks not contributing to science or reason. Strawmanned me with his [misinformation] about Islam. And Rodney is [mistaken] if he says this list of Islamic scholars is all a big hoax.

[It is incorrect to say] uneducated slaves are what created the ideas and philosophies that Mid-East philosophers are credited for (especially since generation slaves wouldn't create or discuss ideologies that would get them killed in this so called "convert or die" golden age he made up). He's also wrong for saying all Islam Scholars over a period of five centuries from text that they supposedly stole from the Seleucidian Greeks, as copies would have made their way to Europe.

Baron Bodissey said...

FYI everybody:

I can see that people have posted several comments that don't appear here. They come into our email account, but never show in the post.

It's not my doing; I have deleted nothing so far except for that uncivil comment by Kekeke.

It's a Blogger thing, and I guess we're not meant to understand it.

Kekeke -- Blogger doesn't provide a way to ban people.

However, I saw what you tried to post in another comment. If you don't restrain your profanity and ad-hominem insults, I will delete the comments, assuming Blogger ever allows them to appear.

Zenster said...

Kekeke: I'm not going to discuss ethics with somebody who promotes genocide.

You're new here, so I'm going to presume that you are unfamiliar with how much effort I've made to try and avert a Muslim holocaust.

That said, I still predict such an outcome because Islam is Hell bent on having it happen.

Better to make the practice of Islam unrewarding than simply killing over a billion Muslims outright.

My own preference is to kill just a few thousand of the top Islamic politicians, clerics, financiers and scholars in order to hamstring global jihad. So far, nothing of the sort is happening and that spells "Muslim holocaust".

Calling me Stalin only reveals your own relative ignorance about how hard I am working to avoid Islam's most probable end result.

You are in dire need of some in-depth knowledge concerning Islam. Stick around and you just may get it. Gates of Vienna is one of the most informative counter-jihad web sites on the Internet.

Zenster said...

Profitsbeard: What would Islam do if it had the West's military power?

Anyone who is unsure as to what the West should do need only ask themself the foregoing question.

I can positively assure you that if Islam possessed the West's nuclear arsenals and we had no such weapons, none of us would be discussing this topic right now.

Anonymous said...

I just want to apologize to anybody I may have offended in this thread, especially Baron, who maintains this blog. I don't know why I got worked up over this-- I think an argument could be more productive if it's more civil. Once again, apologies.

EscapeVelocity said...

That's what fundamentalism means, FYI. Islam in it's purest form is just as sick and disgusting as Christianity in its purest form. It's just happenstance that the Age of Enlightenment happened in Europe instead of the Middle-East, which is arguably what the Middle-East was headed for until the Mongol invasions and the sacking of Baghdad which prevented it. --- KeKe

Good Lord!

Somebody deprogram this automaton.

kritisk_borger said...

It will be interesting to see if the MSM are brave enough to show footage of the burning of the Koran on TV and if pictures of the incident will be published in the papers. Or if they’ll simply chicken out and refuse to have anything to with it to prevent offending the Muslims community and become the target of their uncontrollable rage as was the case with the Motoons.

gsw said...

To all those who ask - should we throw them out?

Answer - learn from Europe.

1) Do not subsidise unlimited numbers of children, rather set a maximum of 3 children per household.
(in Europe, a man with 4 wives and 20 children need never work and lives in luxury - all at the cost of tax payers.)

2) Do not make any exceptions based on religion.
In England a businesswoman looking for a young, modern women to work as a hair dresser in her a salon chose not to offer a job to a women who refused to uncover her hair while at work since she did not have the 'right image for the job'.
She was fined 3000$


3) Do not permit shariah to be smuggled into your constitution under anti-riot or hate speech laws:
A christian couple who disagreed that Mohammed was more important that Jesus and truthfully stated that he was a warlord, were arrested for an offence against shariah (labelled hate speech).
Although later found not-guilty of any crime against British laws, they were financially ruined.

Old Atlantic Lighthouse said...

The Baron's original post is proven better with each hour of news hysteria over the Koran burning. I have tried the Baron's comparison out on someone who lived during WWII and they agree with the point.

Moreover, Hollywood really was ridiculing Nazism, Hitler and Mein Kampf all through the war. Germany never threatened to retaliate against American POWs because of Hollywood movies depicting Nazis badly.

Hollywood during WWII was semi-official propaganda. This is a single pastor in Florida with a congregation of 50.

To reiterate the main message brilliantly shown by the Baron.
The White House is saying its only a few radicals in caves that we are fighting. They say its not Islam we are fighting. They said this morning that this one pastor will take back all our work in Afghanistan. (I couldn't confirm that statement on the WH webpage.)

Petraeus and the White House are saying our troops will suffer from this single pastor's Koran burning.
The comparison of all the Hollywood movies during WWII mocking Hitler and Nazism in comparison to this one pastor, the Danish Cartoons, etc. does in fact prove that we are fighting all of Islam. It also proves that this is the view of a greater percentage of Muslims today than of Nazis during WWII. It shows a greater percentage of Muslims today want our utter destruction and our implacably against us than Nazis during WWII.

Zenster said...

Old Atlantic Lighthouse: The comparison of all the Hollywood movies during WWII mocking Hitler and Nazism in comparison to this one pastor, the Danish Cartoons, etc. does in fact prove that we are fighting all of Islam. It also proves that this is the view of a greater percentage of Muslims today than of Nazis during WWII. It shows a greater percentage of Muslims today want our utter destruction and [are] implacably against us than Nazis during WWII. [emphasis added]

This is an excellent observation and also an important logical extension of the Baron's superb history lesson.

WHERE ARE ALL THE "MODERATE" MUSLIMS WHO SHOULD BE RALLYING TO ASSURE US THAT BURNING THE QUR'AN IS NOT A REASON TO COMMIT MURDER?

Once the "moderate" Muslim street remains deafening silent.

How much longer are we to tolerate this intentionally deceptive farce of Muslim "moderation"?

This is yet one more sterling opportunity for Muslims to come out against Islamic intolerance. Instead, they are milking this like the last cow on the farm.

Zenster said...

I'm going to cross-post my latest comment in the Why Do Our Soldiers Fight? thread:

As a dedicated bibliophile, I feel obliged to go on the record yet one more time about how reluctant I am to encourage book burning.

But let there be no dispute that it is a person's most basic right to burn whatever book they own whenever they want to.

That said, there remains one unequivocal fact:

THERE ARE FEW MORE EXPLICIT AND NON-LETHAL WAYS OF INFORMING ISLAM JUST HOW CLEARLY IT SKIRTS TOTAL ANNIHILATION THAN BY BURNING THE QUR'AN.

Burning this piece of ideological filth is a direct message and straight-forward object lesson regarding what all Muslims should anticipate if they refuse to abandon jihad.

BURNING QUR'ANS BURNING MUSLIM CITIES

Either Muslims begin to make this connection or understand that they will have no reason to complain when Damascus, Islamabad, Ankara, Kabul, Tripoli, Riyadh, Baghdad, Tehran, Cairo and other Muslim cities go up in flames.

In my own mind, it is not a question of "if" but when this will happen. The only real question is whether conventional or unconventional weapons will be involved.

Old Atlantic Lighthouse said...

Zenster, thank you for your kind words and your powerful posts. I appreciate your highlighting from my posts as well as in your own well thought out and structured comments.

We are submitting to Islam with the reaction of our government. Burning the Koran as you point out is how we send a message of victory instead of defeat to the Muslim world.

That is precisely the message our elites won't send because they don't want us to win. Our winning would be a victory for unreconstructed White bigots. This they can not be for. They want us to lose. This is the message the Muslims and we both hear.

WAKE UP said...

RULE 1: don't fly planes into buildings.

If "moderate" Muslims had dealt to their own extremists ANY time after 9/11 - which, to this day, they haven't - none of this would be happening. QED.

WAKE UP said...

Memo everybody (not just generals):

At some point (which is becoming increasingly clearly denoted), inaction and self-indulgent chardonnay soliloquising actually become cowardly, treasonable and collaborative with the enemy. Time to suit up, people.

Painlord2k said...

Gen. Petreus claim that the burning of the Quran will endanger the US soldiers is simply discrediting the war efforts and showing how weak is their strategy.
If a man, publicly burning the Quran, is able to endanger the US soldiers in all the world inciting retaliation against US targets, then the war is already lost.
it is lost, because the real enemy is not some "extremist" but the common Muslim. And Petreus words say these common, someone could say "moderate", Muslims can be fired in an homicidal frenzy by a simple man and the Muslims can no help themselves or police themselves to prevent this.

By the way, the solution to strip the citizenship from all Muslim immigrant is an half solution. The complete solution of the problem is stripping all Muslims of their citizenship and boot them out (they already don't recognize the Constitution, the equality of other not Muslims citizens and more).

Zenster said...

WAKE UP: RULE 1: don't fly planes into buildings.

Violating this primal and self-evident rule will, one day, be recognized as the first death knell for Islam.

Not that there weren't many preceding harbingers of Islam's eventual extinction but − much like the proverbial trout in the milk pail − something like the 9-11 atrocity was simply impossible to ignore.

Painlord2k: And Petreus' words say these common, someone could say "moderate", Muslims can be fired into a homicidal frenzy by a simple man and the Muslims can not help themselves or police themselves to prevent this.

Yet another outstanding example of how Islam − along with its Liberal retinue − serves to infantilize Muslims. Painlord2k's point is doubly important because it notes how even the "common Muslim" − as in one not yet entirely hostile towards the West − somehow will be murderously enraged by burning a Qur'an.

Only the most adept students of Islam will realize how just voicing a fear that Muslims might take offense instantly signals to them that it is permissible for offense to be taken.

However obvious such a notion might seem, this a tremendous lever that is used to pry loose concession after concession from the West as Muslims gradually erode every Constitutional defense there is against implementation of shari'a law.

Contrary to most of the commonly held perceptions about Islam, it cannot be appeased. No amount of accommodation or compromise can achieve even the slightest reconciliation with Islam.

APPEASEMENT ONLY WHETS ISLAM'S APPETITE FOR MORE APPEASEMENT.

This is not just a matter of Churchill's "feeding the crocodile in hopes of being eaten last". It is a matter of feeding an easily defeated infant crocodile, any further nurturing of which only increases its capacity and makes it just that much more ravenous.

Thus does Petraeus not only misattribute blame regarding any dangers posed to America's troops but, in doing so, irresponsibly opens up yet one more avenue of perpetual grievance and belligerence for the global Muslim community.

Finally, as already noted by many others, there is a complete absence of reciprocity in this matter. Nowhere is there even slight protest about the routine destruction of Bibles by Saudi Arabia or Christian churches throughout the Islamic world.

The playing field we engage Muslims upon is already tilted by Islam. That Petraeus sees fit to tip it even more against the West deserves harsh rebuke.

Sam Norton said...

Good to find someone else thinking more clearly about this question. I've written a defense of the Koran burning from a Christian point of view here if anyone is interested.

1389 said...

painlord2k has it right!