Oh, and racists. Lots of racists in that nasty Outer Darkness.
Read through the comment thread for the full flavor of the lizardoids’ reactions. Here’s what Charles had to say:
Paul Belien of Brussels Journal is deeply connected with the Vlaams Belang, and Robert knows this. The fact that he’s put them back in his blogroll speaks volumes about the choice he’s made.
And Gates of Vienna has turned into a reeking sewer of racism. I’m done with Robert Spencer. And very, very disappointed in him.
That’s not just Dymphna and me he’s talking about, ladies and gentlemen — that’s you, the esteemed readers of this blog! How can you bear to be associated with a reeking sewer of racism?
Another one:
Not that it matters, but when I was still bothering to check Brussels Journal, I saw some extremely hateful antisemitism at the site.
I guess Robert has chosen his side.
I’m sad that it’s come to this.
And this:
You’ve chosen a different path than I have, Robert. I refuse to be associated with sites like GoV and Brussels Journal, but if you don’t see why, and pretend not to notice the reasons for it — you’re making a choice.
And that choice obviates my support.
Robert has posted a public response, which is very unusual for him. After quoting some of Charles’ comments, Robert said this:
- - - - - - - - -
[Charles Johnson] also wrote me, asking me to take down the “Designed by Little Green Footballs” logo that had been up on this site.
What heinous crime have I committed? Last month I restored the links here to Gates of Vienna and Brussels Journal, after speaking with Baron Bodissey, Paul Belien, and Geert Wilders in Washington, and wrote that I doubted that Fjordman was a neofascist or race supremacist.
Of course, for many, many months my list of links has carried this disclaimer: “Note: Listing here does not imply endorsement of every view expressed at every linked site.” One might have thought that my linking to both LGF and Gates of Vienna was indicative of an openness to perspectives even from people who disagreed with one another and also with whom I might disagree, and not a blanket endorsement of either one or any other site. That, however, was too subtle for some LGF commenters, who dressed me up in jackboots right away, accusing me of an “apparent embrace of the neo-Nazi movement” and claiming that I support genocide.
Disclaimers are not enough. Absolute purity of association is required! And the Grand Lizard is the one who decides what is pure and what isn’t — the judge, jury, and executioner all rolled into one.
This time last year Charles was holding forth about who could rightfully be allowed in the Counterjihad. First Pamela was thrown off the sled, then Gates of Vienna and Brussels Journal, with Fjordman following in short order. Later on Diana West and Richard Miniter were ejected, and more recently Andy Bostom. Now we have reached the logical conclusion to all these purges, and Robert Spencer has to go.
All the old Bolsheviks have been airbrushed out of the group photo. There’s no one left but
As the arbiter of membership in the Counterjihad, Charles Johnson has finally made it official: he’s a Counterjihad of One.
Now would be an appropriate moment to reprise the Prince of Pompadoodle…
The Prince of PompadoodleLived behind a castle wall,
Behind a moat, behind a guard
Of twenty soldiers tall.
The Prince of Pompadoodle
Was the safest man alive.
Each day he wrote how long he’d lived
And multiplied by five.
The Prince of Pompadoodle
Would survive, he did decide,
Five times as long as he had been
Alive before he died.
The Prince of Pompadoodle
Called in the castle sage
For his advice in this pursuit
Of long and fulsome age.
The Prince of Pompadoodle
Heard in horror from this friend
That somewhere in the palace
Was a cur who’d seek his end!
The Prince of Pompadoodle
Scarce could credit a belief
His years might soon be sneaked away
By some ungrateful thief.
The Prince of Pompadoodle
Sent his every friend away
And sat alone, safe, locked alive,
To count another day.
The Prince of Pompadoodle
May hoard each empty hour,
But none can know; no word comes from
The silent, stony tower.
— Walt Kelly, from Pogo’s Sunday Punch
114 comments:
Baron--
that's "waycist"!...you socialist, you.
Oh well, it took Bess Truman 20 years to teach Harry to say "manure" rather than his choice term...
Meh, who cares? LGF are just PC liberal gimps anyway. A website that merely posts news articles about those evil Jihadists but does nothing about it except allowing the anointed to whine.
In contrast to Charles, Robert Spencer has produced a monumental body of work not only about the Jihad problem but also possible solutions.
Again I will ask-What extra 'power' does LGF have?
I started reading blogs Aug. 2007-with M.Malkin-who linked GofV -I read both regularly-then added others to my favorites...
I started my own blog March 2008 and - on my first post-thanked GofV for re-introducing me to my Danish roots...
I have read R.Spencer's articles via Human Events for years...
I found LGF to be boring...
So-who cares if LGF takes anyone off of its list?
Just Asking....
C-CS
Charles Johnson insists that the mass deportation of Muslims from Europe back to the Middle East is equivalent to Nazism.
That is to say that Monsieur Johnson, like the evil nihilistic Mark Steyn, effectively demands that Europe be flattened and wiped from existence.
The great difficulty is that this is an emotionally charged issue and there is no middle ground.
On one hand, I've just posted a piece on Russians, [not that popular in Britain at this moment], daring to suggest that people are people anywhere.
That government does have none too friendly aims, perceiving themselves to be under threat of being ringed in but the average person doesn't care about any of that.
Patriots in any country, mine, yours, theirs, will rally to the cause, to the flag, when that same government tells them that the hated enemy is attacking.
So we, a relatively benign people, become polarized by someone telling us to.
I would suggest that the Muslims fall into the same category. The average punter is more interested in shopping. However, in the economic downturn, views become polarized and the jihadis get their chance to poison the minds of the rank and file and the result is militantism.
They're forever trying this but in bad times they find fertile ground.
There is one added difference. The average Russian would like to see a strong country which America has to reckon with - this is just national pride such as we have but the average Muslim can be dragged into a messianic type fervour under the right circumstances.
The islamification of the world IS the stated aim of the religion and if argument doesn't work, they are prone to force. It's a very austere, committed mindset, inimical to the existing society which hosts them.
From their point of view, they see corruption and immorality everywhere and Islam sweeps that way and introduces the rod of iron to keep people pure.
Christianity suggests we be moral people and not too many listen. On the other hand, the average householder is not likely to be a hotbed of immorality or jihadism. With a Muslim, it is possible because of the nature of the interpreters of the texts.
So what to do with these intransigent people? Well all you can do is a] ask them not to b] incarcerate them c] execute them d] deport them.
What of their right to free speech?
Over here, my blog and many others castigate Brown and his government and want to overthrow socialism and reinstate free market economics with some sensible rules and being pro-small business.
We are, in the government's eyes, subversive for wanting a democratic society based on free market principles and a reattachment to our nation's history and mores.
I would venture to suggest that we are not advocating anything oppressive but the exact opposite. I would suggest the jihadis are most certainly advocating something oppressive - morality by force and the overturn of free choice.
Therefore, jihadis must be opposed in order to maintain our freedoms. And we come back to those choices of action again, of which one was to deport them back to the Middle-East.
JihadWatch also endorses deportation of muslims. Hugh Fitzgerald (in his comments) repeatedly mentions the deportation of SudetenGermans from Czechoslovakia after the WWII as a telling parallel in this context.
He says "the Czechs deported...".
Which is not actually correct way of putting it. The whole deportation was planned in London - where the exiled govs. of Czechoslovakia, Poland and Yugoslavia had their seats. The US and British stance was much tougher than the position of the exiled president Beneš, who did not want to deport "all Germans". Home resostence was also tougher (killings of civilians continued until May 1945).
This fact is willingly neglected in the German media and the choir has it that Beneš was the fully responsible person and is often painted as a monstre promoting the concept of "collective guilt". However the Germans with antinazi record were not included in the deportation plan at all.
"Collective guilt" is a discourse fully comparable with our "racism" scheme. A big stick.
"Collective guilt" was however never applied to the Russian treatment of the Germans to be deported from other areas. Why?
Because the Germans respect the big Russian stick like little kids.
"Collective guilt"
never occurs however in the discourse relevant to the muslim world - esp. "Palestine"(!!??) Why?
In the case of our policy (CZ,US,GB) after WWII it was wrongly attributed to the CZ gov. only and Modern Germany sponsors various programs of "reconciliation" involving even activists with a nazi past/links or background. It was a strange farce in CZ running for the last two decades. Deportation actually protected lot of nazis with purely criminal record. Those were not included under denazification program and could make carriers in the newly established democracy in Germany as we know it now.
Our jihadis/muslims are perfect champions and examples of "collective guilt" concept and there is nobody around to blame them with a commonly accepted blame. Also Quran is a book promoting grossly "collective guilt" to an extent bordering on absurdity. What we get as response is a total silence.
As soon as we get tougher rules on muslims, we may get supporters - nominal muslims against the "true muslims". It is obvious from the Danish model.
Find more facts about the deportation discourse in the US and GB govs. starting after 1942. You may get material unrefutable for the antifa/PC/MC crowds.
The SudeteGermans deportation was clearly shaped on the Greeks/Turks exchange and India/Pakistan pop. transfers. (Those who have no patience to go into details, do not want to know that many of these "SudetenGermans" were Germans from other areas resettled in ex-CZ under the Hitlers "Heim ins Reich" program.
Is Charles Johnson black?
What extra 'power' does LGF have?
It's fading, for sure. He had a monumental amount of goodwill for being *the* place to go immediately after 9/11. That's no small feat.
But he's been squandering the goodwill liberally over the last year, by demonstrating that he does not understand underlying principles, does not respect those with more knowledge than himself,
does not pay attention to detail, and isn't willing to admit to making mistakes.
His huge readership used to be his power. The infamous 'Lizard army' would get all riled up about something Charles would say, and would go wreck virtual havoc on onther blogs, ranting and raving about us 'evil Europeans' on such a high pitch that no sane person would do so without good reason.
That, BTW, is the 'Big Lie' mechanism that is the basis of all decent fascist propaganda.
Charles has picked up his Uzi and shot himself in his feet, quite effectively. Not unlike Boromir in Lord of The Rings, who tried to ursurp undue power and was pierced to oblivion by orcs.
I found it sad to read the comments on that LGF thread:
Robert's a Christian and a Serb supporter. He knows what he's doing. I think he only backed away from Vlaams Belang (et al) because he thought it would hurt his career. He's full aware what he's doing.
his support for genocidal Serbs indicated that he was headed this direction anyways.
So, Christian and pro-Serb = neo-Nazi, racist, evil, guilty.
Basically, I think the mindset of the LGF crowd is not different from that of the people who accused and jailed Bart Debie for "racism" or bombed Belgrade on the very days of the Orthodox Easter in 1999 (while they respect publicly Ramadan). If Robert Spencer is an extremist, then how is it to call a whole people "genocidal"?
Erich said...
Is Charles Johnson black?
Erich - Is Charles Johnson … well … you know … sane?
Pela has a post addressing the same matter, at which I commented the following:
There are three main reasons that I link to a site.
1) I find something of interest at the site, and I want to find the site again easily.
2) The site has pertinence to the material at my blog.
3) The site may be of interest or use to my readers.
A fourth reason is as a reciprocal link to some sites that link to me.
I link to a variety of sites, some of which have good information, some of which have information that is not so good; some sites have both. I link regardless of the political slant of the site; in fact, I link to sites with a wide range of viewpoints, because I challenge my readers to think for themselves, and encourage them with my links to go get other viewpoints and information.
I had been considering removing the link to LGF, as I debated the three main reasons that I link to a site and their applicability. A couple of months ago, I removed my link to LGF. If I recall correctly, the straw that broke the camel's back was a series of attacks on Fjordman (whom I respect and enjoy reading, but with whom I do not always agree) and on Gates of Vienna (which has a great deal of credibility for the research that goes into GOV's posts, and for the intelligence of many of the commentators).
By the way -- As I interact with Muslims on-line, the only accusation of hatred I have ever heard from a Muslim against a "counterjihad" blog was directed at LGF.
I quit visiting LGF almost a year ago and haven't missed it. I quickly noticed that the readers' comments on GoV and JW were far more intelligent and literate than those on LGF. Most comments there consisted of brief explosions of emotion. I guess the Lizards leave it to Mr. Johnson to do their thinking for them. (Has this changed since I stopped lurking there?) Here and on JihadWatch, on the contrary, there are real discussions and courteous disagreements, and I have learned much on both sites.
And no, Charles Johnson is not black.
@Erich, I don't think it would matter. Egomaniacs are egomaniacs no matter what their skin tone.
Now as I posted in another thread (silly me):
You can see the progress of this in plain at LGF. It's a classic propaganda trick. Every now and then commentors would drop a hint here or an insinuation there about things, sowing seeds of doubt in the minds of the rest about Robert's status. At some point the target becomes discredited enough that you can turn the baying mob on him without worrying whether they'll baulk at attacking someone who was once considered friend.
And just recently I started running a little bit of a series (of three, so far) pointing out the islliness of what started all of this - the idea of symbology, which was actualy prompted by my noticing something in a picture posted at Jihad Watch. You can see it if you lie. Don't expect quality or well-researched documentary evidence, it's just random and slightly satirical musing which just happens to have a bit of unintentional prescience.
Right, that's enough self-promotion, back to the grind...
Coming to think of it, I find more and more disturbing those "he knows what he's doing" comments. It's a suggestion of an intrinsic guilt, a capital sin without possibility of redemption. It reminds me of the character assassination procedures carried on during Communism, aimed at destroying somebody's credibility, career and life. "Comrade X pretended to be a loyal member of the Party. But he cannot fool us. His father was a businessman, his mother was half German, he studied Philosophy in a bourgeoise University. He's a Fascist element infiltrated among the sane elements of the Party. He knows what he's doing". Everybody knew at that point that the poor man was deprived of any possibility to defend himself, no matter what evidence he might have showed in his defense.
Similarly, the "logic" we have here is: "He's guilty. We couldn't find any racist or extremist remarks in his writings, but hey! - he's a Christian, pro-Serb and he quotes fjordman. He knows what he's doing". Thus, the heretic was exposed. Time for mob lynching.
We really ought to all chip in and have CJ take a Sabbatical away from Home Turfdom and into the complexities of the world.
But it's not his opinions. He's entitled to them... It's this godawful habit of severing links instead of civil (or even heated) discorse.
You don't like Fjordman or Spencer's latest thoughts? Great! But there's no need to turn them into pariahs. If you're gonna argue with someone, instead of removing links, bolster them! Give the issues to the Bickering Sages until they're all talked out.
After all, they ARE all quite complicated: the ideal / the tribal - the racial / racist / social - freedom /responsability - rights / duties.
There's no need to divorce, 'cause nobody's married. Or anyway, the comments all come with pre-nuptual agreements: "linkage is not necessarily love, it might just be social intercourse."
Man alive, if a Robert Spencer suddenly becomes a dangerous radical, like a cockroach in a cleanroom, I think CJ's got serious problems. I only suggest starting a money drive to introduce him to the real world, but if he keeps it up, he might have to be air-dropped into the Bellevieu Clinic for the Very Very Uptight and Nervous.
Former Gordon has a highly entertaining blog devoted to Charles' excesses.
LGF Banned and Blocked
I'll be an ass now:
Charles Johnson is sitting in America. What he knows about Europe comes from CNN. Frankly, how would he know that VB is so "nazi" and "evil"? Does he speak Flamic? Does he speak German? French? Any other European language that would allow him to read and understand the VB, FPÖ, etc, etc, in their original words without having some media translation between it?
He's sitting in America. And he shall remain there. His opinions about Europeans who fight against islamo-fascism are... IRRELEVANT.
I stopped visiting LGF a while ago. Some of the things he wrote were simply unreal.
Frankly, I don't think we need him. I don't think he even understands the real issues we have with the murderous death cult created by a desert barbarian who loved to rape little girls (also known as islam). To me it seems that he's blaming the leftists for everything.
am sorry about charles johnson's damaging behavior. he is foolish to have undermined people worthy of a hearing; and none of those people are more central to the "movement" (however weak) than Robert Spencer.
Spencer has a new book. Does johnson? Now some people will use johnson's words to keep others ignorant of the real nature of Islam.
Spencer's book (and audio CD) are probably important contributions:
http://www.amazon.com/Stealth-Jihad-Radical-Subverting-America/dp/1596985569/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225541635&sr=1-1
As I said at JW, Charles's betrayal (for that's what it is really) will be use as a very effective smear by Robert's opponents now. Their accusations of racism will include "Your own ally has said you are racist".
I'm mad now. I'd better go off and do something constructive and mind-numbing to get over it. Perhaps I'll do the dishes. It always calms me down.
Spencer has a new book?
Mmm, Stealth Jihad (also as Audio CD).
Spot on.
Robert Spencer is moving in his understanding - actually along the same lines as many others are - and increases his focus on what goes on quietly, without spectacular explosions and (immediate) bloodshed.
Stealth Jihad is a very tricky thing to properly identify and counter. We'll need this book.
Any new books by CJ? Not? What a shame... BTW, I think this will backfire on CJ, big way.
Fluff response--
We're a lazy bunch here, so I've provided a live link.
Perish the thought that anyone should have to cut and past Robert's new book.
Stealth Jihad: How Radical Islam is Subverting America without Guns or Bombs
It currently ranks #84 in books on terrorism.
The editorial says:
Most terrorism experts agree: it is not "if" we are attacked again, but "when." Yet the assault has already happened. A silent battle is being waged on our nation everyday. Not with guns and bombs, but via covert sources: Islamic charities, the ACLU--even presidential candidates. They are all pawns in a stealth holy war. Unwittingly advancing the jihadist agenda not by violence, but through endeavors designed to acclimate and subject us to Islamic law--just the way Osama bin Laden wants it. In Stealth Jihad, bestselling author Robert Spencer exposes how a silent but lethal movement is advancing on the U.S. and calls upon Americans to resist it--before it's too late.
There aren't any reviews as yet...be the first!
Come on, it's not that bad. Once the Internet is turned over to the U.N., We won't have to worry about this sort of thing anymore.
It is plainly obvious that Charles Johnson is on an ego trip. Reading through the posts about LGF on here this past year revelas that his knowledge of British and European politics wouldn't fill the back of a postage stamp.
As far as I'm concerned, he has no understanding whatsoever of the drastic situation the indigenous people of Europe are currently in and is therefore, as the Spanish say:
"Es una bacteria en el horizonte"
Before opening his ignorant mouth about what is happening over here he should go and live for a year in Glodwick or Leicester or Bradford.
He would be in for an education he badly needs along with a very rude awakening, without a doubt.
It's becoming more and more of a soap opera to watch CJ and LGF heading directly towards oblivion and doing everything in their power to accelerate the motion in the aforementioned direction.
Every intelligent and rational person is unfaltering being eliminated from all association with LGF and CJ, on even the most skimpiest shred of “evidence” and basically with the message: “You do not agree with our beloved leader, and thus you must be a blog-traitor, a recidivist... a racist, or even a genocidalist!”
Expect more frequent openings for registrations to fill the ranks of fresh LGF sycophants...
I welcome Robert Spencer into the Outer Darkness of the Counterjihad, where Political Correctness does not reign supreme.
Gee, if I put a little Green Football on my sidebar, do you think I'll be threatened by KIng Charles? hmmm...
There is a blog formed by excommunicated members of Chucky's blog, it's called lgf2. They don't have a thread up on the topic yet, but they will.
I must admit Chucky has surprised me, he has actually placed himself in rare company. Until now, I thought only Joe Biden was capable of shooting his foot, while it was in his mouth.
Good shot, Chucky.
@aileen, I quickly noticed that the readers' comments on GoV and JW were far more intelligent and literate than those on LGF.
Boy, is that an understatement! I don't usually comment, but the difference is prodigious, kind of like comparing War and Peace to Mad Magazine (is that still around?). LGF has always been nothing more than a purveyor of the abrasive one-liner, good for a brief chuckle quickly forgotten.
My daughter, Natalie, predicted this expulsion of Robert by CJ many, many weeks ago. I must say I disagreed at the time.
@IoshkaFutz,
It's this godawful habit of severing links instead of civil (or even heated) discorse.
Exactly! Reminds me of the kid that takes his ball and goes home cause no one wants to follow his rules. CJ has never grown up.
The list of the banned grows more impressive!
What, pray tell was Comrade Miniter's transgression?
I was always impressed by his work when I happened by it.
I think I have visited LGF 7 times.
ladies and gentlemen on this forum:
I need your help to comprehend your obsession with LGF which appears to be an enduring feature over here.
I checked it out a few times only to be turned away; it is a news aggregating spot, sometimes with good imageries and that's all about it.
Only non-contradictory posts are tolerated in max two sentences.
There are very many superb forums exist in our disposal so this never fading interest in a second rate forum like LGF it's an enigma to me.
We are much closer to the intellectual quality and political leaning of Brussels Journals than to LGF so why is this fuss about it?
Bela, when this conflict started around a year ago, it was very nasty, and very damaging. Old allies would reconsider their relationships with us due to the curses coming out at LGF, high-profile people took caution against us, and funding became a problem, too.
Christine of CVF and others did a huge job of dissecting the charges that Charles hurled around, which in a way took a lot of effort away from our core challenges - but proved useful down the road.
The discussions in this conflict have been radically vicious, had the potential to destroy the whole anti-Jihad community, and brought benefit only to our enemies.
We took a lot of undeserved flak from Charles, and it's been a long process to prove him wrong, convincingly.
Thus the enjoyment :)
Like the Obama Champagne, people who default quickly toward silencing others, always quick to employ the power of the mob, creep me out.
The expulsion of Atlas reminded me of Coulter's expulsion by the Girly Men @ NRO.
"Champagne" = Kool Aid for the Ivy League Set.
henrik r clausen;
Thank you for your input. I did not take part in the acrimonious argument so I have no opinion beyond my zero interest in LGF.
However this is something to be considered by all:
With Obama in power in the US, the EU Marxist over there, the ideological conflict will intensify immeasurably.
It portends difficult times for us, posters: in order to preserve the image of being mainstream, non-extremist etc. blog owners will have to implement PC censorship in order to fend off Leftist attacks that want to silence any opposing voices.
Now even the word "socialist" is racist, I am being called on this forum RACIST even though no one can quote any racist statement I might have made. Criticism of Russia is RACIST, alluding to the Jewish role in Marxist ideology is RACIST, critique of blacks, Islam is RACIST (see Bush, and Brits)...
I think we are not prepared to what is in the store and I feel sorry for GoV: I have no idea how anyone can tackle this issue.
Extremists are in better position because they cannot care less: they don't cater to the masses, they have their staunch adherents and that's all there is to it.
Hi!
These were my predictions in an email I sent a year ago:
Från: Conservative Swede [conswede@mailbolt.com]
Skickat: den 25 november 2007 01:49
Till: Baron Bodissey; Fjordman; Pamela Geller
Kopia: Dymphna
Ämne: This is what's going to happen
THE FALL OF KING CHARLES THE PURE
December, 2007: The downfall of Charles becomes obvious to everyone. He behaves more and more paranoid, and his megalomania swells out of proportions. By Christmas time the traffic to his site is down to 30,000 visitors, and nobody wants anything to do with him any more.
January, 2008: Robert Spencer had not been sufficiently subservient in the eyes of Charles. Spencer's IP gets blocked from accessing LGF. By the end of the month Charles starts going after Robert Spencer, showing photos trying to link him to neo-Nazism.
February, 2008: We find a good web-designer offering a new web-design for Jihadwatch. Spencer accepts.
March, 2008: PajamasMedia goes bankrupt.
April, 2008: The traffic of LGF is down to 10,000 visitors. Every third comment is by Charles himself. The Lizards are afraid of even writing one-liners. The probability is too high that Charles would find something offensive in them. The remaining comments have shrinked to "Bravo, Charles!", "Brilliant, Charles!". Killian Bundy once wrote "Way to go, Charles!" and was banned for that.
May, 2008: Charles in court for a lot of shady business in relation to his website.
June, 2008: Charles joins a Reality TV show -- he's attention deprived. He freaks out because they won't let him control who's going to be voted out. He gets carried out from the show in a straight-jacket.
Christmas, 2008: Charles and the remaining 200 lizards go to a Caribbean island to start a religious cult. And thereby the Lord of the Flies theme is completed.
Yes, it's true!
Well my timeline was much too compressed, we have only come to "January 2008" so far. But up to that point my predictions have become true (one way or the other). But at this slow pace we will have to wait a couple of years before we see Charles being carried out in a straight-jacket from that reality show. But it will be worth waiting for :-)
Bela, I absolutely share your concern with having these neo-Marxists come to power. Though they may consider themselves 'Progressive', I expect them to wreck havoc on our civil liberties, merely in order to hide their own incompetence. I've read enough about fascism to recognize the mechanisms at work, but am not in a position to make it clear for all. I guess this thing has to play out by itself.
Oh. Obama just got a ringing endorsement from .. Tariq Ramadan :)
Since I first checked in on LGF in 2005 I had the opinion that Charly was one of these people who was always talking but never listening. He surrounds himself with mamby-pambys that are essentially usleless to society and poisonous to civilized nations. So, I quit going to his blog quite a while ago. I also found it weird that he fancied himself quite the artist with his funky pentax.
Aye LGF used to be a decent blog after 9-11 but iv not found myself there for some considerable time now. TRoP has the news, Jihadwatch has the comment and Pam, GoV etc fill the gaps. Theres no need for LGF if there just going to spread descent.
I think we could could all see Robert Spencer's banishment coming from a mile away. Next on the list will be Daniel Pipes, Geert Wilders, Arieh Eldad and the other attendees of this coming December's Alliance of European Patriots conference in Jerusalem.
I wonder if Baron or Dymphna or Fjordman or any other GoV commenter will be attending this conference? Apparently several European parliamentarians will be there, almost certainly including officials of the Vlaams Belang. If anyone has any more information on the formation of this new anti-jihad oraganization (Alliance of European Patriots), please let us know.
Wading through the LGF post in question, one has to be amazed at the sycophancy of the lizards. The once highly respected Spencer has become in an instant a vile neo-Nazi to be shunned at all cost. Since most of us are banned from defending Spencer at LGF, why don't the lizards come over to GoV and defend Johnson? Any takers?
Excessive sensibility is only another name for morbid self-conciousness--Bovee
It will never be known what acts of cowardice have been committed for fear of not looking sufficiently progressive--Peguy
Baron,
A topic that I think you should blog about is what recently happened in Ukraine: The Ukrainian "Western" (whatever that bloody means) government edicted a law to enable the Russian language from apear on TV.
Very interesting. Right to be informed? Denied! Especially in a country where virtually everybody knows Russian. Especially in a country that is divided into a Russian part and a ... part.
It makes me remember Spain. Yeah, Spain aloud Portuguese Televisions some years back to broadcast directly to Galiza. That is, the Spanish government, after a long fight of the people of Galiza to see their culture and language recognised, aloud the people of Galiza to have (without pay per view):
a) National Spanish channels
b) Regional Galician channels (both in Spanish or in Galego, which is Portuguese written in a Spanish way and with a Northern accent)
c) Portuguese National channels
However, and after the European Parliament had aloud MEPs from Galiza to speak up in Galego under the banner that it was an oficial language of the European Union, that is PORTUGUESE and not Galego, the Spanish government still continues to give stupid excuses but the fact is that in Galiza, Portuguese language TV is still not for free (But the Castillanised regional Galician channels).
The worst is that Portuguese authorities do nothing. Well at least, I've noticed a small thing. Whenever someone talks in Spanish, legends apear, if it is in Galego, legends do not. And that is already great.
Maybe Portuguese authorities don't do an @$$ because we've had four Prime Ministers in the last eight-ten years:
The older one flew because his party lost the regional elections and he had no idea how to diminish the deficit (Socialist);
The other, flew to became the unelected Emperor of Europe, Mr. Barroso (Social Democrat);
When that one left, he called the mayor of the biggest city in the country to be Prime Minister (no, it´s not a joke), a playboy who was himself a joke. Imagine Gordon Brown without hair and with girls all over him. (Social Democrat);
The Socialist President fired that Prime Minister and now we have this hard leftist Prime Minister who was yesterday making declarations like "this is the end of capitalism" alongside Mr. Hugo Chávez (Socialist).
But, let's focus on Ukraine. I just want to add a thought:
Belgium, the E.U., Spain, Ukraine. Any multi-ethnic stupid pseudo-Nation ends up Totalitarian. They always try to create a non existant new man. America didn't but that's another story.
Please Baron, blog about Ukraine! I wanna see blood in the comments. Who's with me? Blood, blood, blood!
What a perfect thread for this latest offering from Iowahawk.
As a Conservative, I Must Say I Do Quite Like the Cut of this Obama Fellow's Jib.
By T. Coddington Van Voorhees VII
Columnist, The National Topsider
Membership Chairman, The Newport Club
Lee at Southend:
Pardon my lack of knowledge, but please spell out the contact web address for TRoP and Pam. I know the others. Always looking for a quick connect with good info. Many thanks.
"that’s you, the esteemed readers of this blog! How can you bear to be associated with a reeking sewer of racism?"
Now that I think I understood the meaning of the word, why not use a badge:
Islamophobe and proud of it.
I mean, why not waycist, and proud of it?
A few months ago I wrote a column about Little Green Footballs. In this column I uncovered LGF being infiltrated by far left Scandinavian activists. Charles kicked me of a little later, stating I am the most tedious and illogical of all fascist apologists. The illogical thing probably has to do with Charles intellectual skills, I am afraid.
Most of my input at LGF was trying to mediate between Johnson and the bloggers forementioned and stimulate Johnson to solve the dispute between him and other bloggers. I Guess that put me in te eurofascist camp. Johnson knows nothing about Europe and our problems with the death cult, his information is feeded to him by very learned and sympathetic far left "white ma's guilt" sects. The same cult among european intellectuals that has brought Europe on the brink of complete chaos. Their infiltration has reached it's peak with the banning of Spencer.
Since I've only been here for a few months and I've never been to LGF, not even now, mostly because what I've read about Charles and his site here, I rapidly concluded it to be a waste of time.
Can't help but think of pro-stoner Cherin Awad, now infamous even outside my country and even before any show has been aired. Anyway, she has stated on her blog, that anyone who critiscizes her and her faith is a nazi! Nice to have such small details cleared up though. Feels a bit funny, having been here for a few decades and not knowing I'm a nazi until now, thanks to our beloved islamists... jeez! Here's a little pearl from 1983. Have a nice Halloween-weekend. Care to Heil anyone? :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu2NqfISm9k
"Reminds me of the kid that takes his ball and goes home cause no one wants to follow his rules. CJ has never grown up."
It really sums it up. Well said Marianne.
Bela, I agree with you, Brussels Journal is near excelent. And that Takuan Seyko guy (or whatever) writes wonderfully. I also agree with you about this "LGF paranoia" for the matter. But I have to reckon that, though it is a boring site, whenever I go there, once every three months that is, I always found good material. For instance, today I found a mensage by a nobody called Fred Thompson.
But probabily it is because I am grossly ignorant of American businesses so that every vulgarity is a damned new great discovery.
Czechmade,
I think the Czech government was absolutely right when it deported Sudeten Germans. Not because I have anything against Germans. I happen to like Germans very much, and I consider them the greatest European nation (closely followed by the French - well, that's just my opinion). No, they were right because history has shown us that enclaves of one nation in the midst of another is never a good idea. Nations should occupy contiguous territories, within the boundaries of which they are more or less homogenuous. No enclaves. Let the Czechs live with the Czechs and the Germans live with the Germans and let them go and visit each other like good neighbors.
I knew that it was only a matter of time before Robert Spencer would be excommunicated after he published that piece about Fjordman. One of CJ's most strident minions disclosed a "compromising" piece of evidence against Robert Spencer: he is pro-Serb. Like it's a bad thing. So Spencer is banned, while the vile Albanian agitator, medaura, continues to publish her lies and propaganda.
aileen,
"And no, Charles Johnson is not black."
How do you know?
Does a pic of CJ exist? If so, does anyone have a link?
The reason for my original question is not terribly important in comparison with the other more obviously important issues surrounding this brouhaha, but I have been curious as to the unusually vehement anti-"racism" of CJ. This degree of anti-"racist" vehemence is, of course, not all that uncommon among pro-Islam Leftists. But when one sees it in an ostensibly anti-Islam (or at any rate anti-"radical" Islam) person, one wonders where it's coming from.
Afonso-
"Please Baron, blog about Ukraine! I wanna see blood in the comments. Who's with me? Blood, blood, blood!"
Afonso my friend. You really need to get out more. : )
LGF is getting close to the goal of truly becoming the “Counterjihad of One”... Judging from the latest posts by the King Lizard himself, he is preparing the road to ostracizing Geert Wilders, leaving only Ayaan Hirsi Ali as the only one that hasn't joined forces with the forces of evil... Only to have one of the sycophants revile AHA a couple of posts later, giving the King Lizard an alibi for cutting ties to her as well...
So in effect the King Lizard is not causing a split in the counterjihad (as if there ever was one), he is just removing himself from the Counterjihad movement, by taking the long way...
Does a pic of CJ exist? If so, does anyone have a link?
Here you go
For a picture of CJ see: Google: Image search for Charles Johnson, LGF...
Next time please do at least 5 minutes of investigation before asking ;)
Jeppo,
However did you managed to stay around so long at LGF without being banned. That's still a mystery to me.
Bottehond,
I uncovered LGF being infiltrated by far left Scandinavian activists.
Most notably the infamous Oyvind Strawman :-)
Afonso, you are crazy.
You fight for Galiza in Eastern Ukraine? Why not in Sudan or some Chinese province?
Your life is a life of a cultural projection of your local experiences in the world which you refuse to understand.
I am more humble in my treatment of Eastern Ukraine and I say I simply do not know who is Russian or only Russian/lingua franca speaker over there.
To make our discourse more palatable, I recall a Galician girl
staying in my house. She was strikingly Czech in her behaviour and appearance. I consider Spanish/Portuguese culture something special like GB. But it was a strange experience, I missed the feelinbg of cultural border crossing. Her grandfather was a scholar in Galician language and culture. I do not like fantasies, I do not want to invade your Galicia with my Czech non-sense... but let me ask maybe it is due to our common Celtic heritage? The same strange experience I had with my friend from Normandy - a staunch French hater. It is not about a "nation", it is more about the culture/approaches.
I can guarantee you we had no influence on those folks, but they did something strange - coming to similar conclusion/mindset.
We should definitely try to redraw the cultural map of Europe. For ex. Belgium seems to be more Central Europe then anything French/Dutch. I would enjoy to be your cultural neighbour on the Northern Portuguese border. The manana culture is unacceptable for us... are the Galicians different?
I miss in your list of totalitarians...the French experiment. Why are you so worried about our Eastern European well being? We are all Eastern Europeans after all acc. to you, nothing is lost if the citizens of Ukraine start speaking Ukrainian (?).
You have to admit, Robert Spencer is totally pwning Charles in this whole thing. Go Robert! He's one of my favourite people. Charles actually cannot be sane to attack him. How can anyone ever say that Spencer is a fascist? Charles has officially expelled himself from the counterjihad movement.
Bottehond, I remember you! It's good to see you again. I remember that column you were talking about.
ConSwede,
I pre-emptively thanked Johnson for letting me post at LGF even though I was a Vlaams Belang supporter. Later, he mentioned me in a post as one of LGF's most strident VB sympathizers, advertising to everyone that he DID allow dissent at his site, even after banning dozens of others for having the same opinions. So I guess I was a useful idiot for him: My continued presence at LGF was "proof" of his evenhandedness...LOL.
BTW do you know anything about the upcoming Alliance of European Patriots conference? I've inquired about it at various different blogs, but no one seems to know much about it. I'm particularly interested in the writers, bloggers and politicians who are scheduled to be there. It's being hosted by Arieh Eldad and Geert Wilders with Daniel Pipes and Robert Spencer confirmed as invitees. Are you, CS, invited? The Baron? Fjordman?
Spackle,
Don't you think I agree? ;)
Thanks islam o' phobe.
zonka, the problem with Google Images is that were I to search "Charles Johnson LGF" I might come up with pics of somebody named Charles Johnson vaguely or more closely related to LGF along with actual pics of CJ himself. And how am I supposed to tell the difference, not knowing what he looks like? In cases like this, it is nice to have short-cuts from friendly sources such as islam o' phobe provided me.
Jeppo --
I know about the event, and I know where and when it will happen, but that's all I know. I'm not in the loop on this one.
There are larger issues at hand other than whether CJ likes us or not.
Thanks Baron. Creating a pan-European anti-jihadist alliance is something I think we all want to see. Hopefully we'll get some more info about this important event soon.
Czechmade,
"Afonso, you are crazy."
Wow...
"You fight for Galiza in Eastern Ukraine? Why not in Sudan or some Chinese province?"
Wow... sorry, I do not understand. I'd ask you if you could please reformulate this so that I can answer you. But if you want to know, sure, free Tibet! They have all the rights to have it their own way. I simply am not killing myself for them, nor do I think that Tibet will have a strong impact in me in the long term... However, I feel deeply sorry for our lost of TRUE DIVERSITY in this Earth.
"I am more humble in my treatment of Eastern Ukraine and I say I simply do not know who is Russian or only Russian/lingua franca speaker over there."
Czechmade, who cares? That's not the question. Your native(?) Czeck/Bohemian Nation has a History of hundreds of years as a recognisable distinct Nation. Just as any other European Nation. Now please, tell me a little of that History of the so called "Ukrainian Nation".
Nations exist before States. A State that precedes a Nation is creating a New kind of men, a man who is a slave of a burocratic Statal machine.
Also, it's easy to see who's Russian and who's not. Maybe the Russians don't identify as Russians but rather as "Eastern Ukrainians" (as the Poles do as "Western Ukrainians"). I've seen a Eastern Ukrainian friend of mine talking about a Western Ukrainian in this light: "Wow, I'm Ukranian but she is different, she is "really Ukrainian"". They did not know each other. She recognised the Western Ukrainian due to her accent (or language, I don't know). Do the average Bohemian do this to a Moravian?
Well, let's discover who's who:
Let's see a map of the result of the Orange Revolution. Do you remember that there was a pro-Russian part? This was in 2004.
And now, the result of the 2006 elections. See that blue area? That's an area where a majority of the people would like to be annexed by Russia.
And the last map. A map of the most voted party in Ukraine in 2007. A party that, mind you, practically sees Ukraine as a mere region of Russia.
The funny is that the more you know about Ukrain the more absurd that country looks. For instance, the first great Russian capital, the first centre of Russian culture was Kyev, today's Ukrainian capital, this before Moscow or Saint Petresburg were founded; Nowadays the five biggest Ukrainian cities (with more than one million people) are Kyev, Donetsk, Dnepropetrovsk, Odessa and Kharkov. They ALL are in the "Russian" part of the country but Kyev. Google Solzyethsin in the Brussels Journal.
The not so funny is that this has the potential to be transformed into a sort of civil war and it is being agravatted as time goes by. Especially by policies like 1) The Soros founded Orange Revolution 2) The police I described before: No more Russian in Ukraine! Implemented by the Ukrainian government.
Also funny, I asked that Eastern Ukrainian girl from Donetsk what language did she speak. Her answer: "We? We all spoke Russian at home and with friends. The majority of the people spoke Russian as the first language. But at school, at school we had to be thought in Ukrainian."
Totalitarian? No!!!!
Authoritarian? No!!!!
Why? It's Western, it can only be good...
In my view it's best to rearange stupid borders to prevent greater evils. Even if that means offer a little bit of European soil to an European Nation, Russia.
"I consider Spanish/Portuguese culture something special like GB."
Yes, different from "real Europe". You're damned right!
"I miss in your list of totalitarians...the French experiment."
Sure... but I don't think it would be productive to "divide" France.
"Why are you so worried about our Eastern European well being?"
Because you people are Europeans and are sane. You are the future, and this guys are not even in the E.U.
"but let me ask maybe it is due to our common Celtic heritage?"
Well, first of all, people are people first. You could get along with an African or an Asian without much cultural affinities. It depends much (on my view, at least) in the character of the person. Then comes culture.
But once you asked, maybe yes, probabily not.
First of all I thought South Germany, Austria and Czechia were heavily colonised after the advent of the Celts, by Germanic and Slavic peoples, to such an extent that I thought "Celticity" would be "foreign" to you.
Second, here in the Peninsula, the more you go Southeast, the less European it is, the more you go to the Northwest, the more European it is. Schoolars usually call it "Continental" instead of European. So it probabily is more this than "Celticity" per se.
Third, yes, the Celtic influence in Galiza is great, as well as in Northern Portugal. This is due to the fact that Galiza was poorely Romanised and virtually not even touched by the Arabs. The Romans had difficult times with Celtic peoples here. The worst for them was the Celtic Lusitanian tribes of central Portugal and after that the Celtic Gallaecians (Galiza+North Portugal), Asturi and Cantabri (Extreme Northern Spain, West of the Basque Country). The Arabs left their imprint more to the South.
You can see this map of the Peninsula immediateley before the arrival of the Romans.
The Vascones are the modern Basques (Vascos in Spanish). At green we have the Celts and at orange(-ish) we have the Iberians. Notice also that in the North-West, the Celtiberians are believed to had been a mix of Iberians and Celts. You can also see some green Greek colonies in the East.
I also know a blogger who claims to be learned in History who writes excellent articles about Celticity in the region, especially Portugal. He makes excellent points linking Celticity to modern Portuguese traditions. He discovers "lost Haloweens" and everything. But my favourite is how he showed, clear as water, that an important part of the mythology of Western Hispania: The enchanted (female) moors are indeed Celtic in origin and older than Christianity. That is ridiculously valluable because our elites like to reinforce the notion that we are a mix of Arabs and Jews and as such must not opose immigration. Also Christianity almost smacked "Celticity" though especially in Portugal and Galiza you can find many "Celtic" Traditions disguised as Christian.
But what I really like is going out at night in Lisbon to an area frequented by college students and hear the bag pipes as if we were in Northern or Central Portugal.
In my opinion, I doubt it is due to "our common Celtic heritage" but it is real. The difference between Galiza (and Northern Portugal and Asturias and Cantabria) and the rest is that this area has remained pure. Little Romanisation and almost no Arab presence. The rest of the Peninsula recieved other influences. And also, Galiza desired to get ridd of Spanish domination so they founded a Nationalism to differenciate themselves.
Why do I feel you would like to know that we have a rather dear Czech girl as one of Portugal's little girlfriends?
The blonde one. No wonder everybody here likes Czech Reublic. Prague, Lenka and Poborsky. How is it possible not to like?
Charles who? heh heh
A man with no power and nobody cares....sad really.
Joanne, et al, this is the proble: Because of Rathergate, Charles does have a great deal of influence. LGF is "the blog", the one a lot of the media people think of when they think of right-wing blogs. If he was just A.N. Other blogger this wouldn't be a problem, but people can pick up on this and use it to smear and attack whomever Johnson has decided to bury, because LGF has a huge recognition amongst the media and opinion formers.
He's doing an immense amount of damage with these attacks. More than some people seem to realise. As much as it would be nice to just leave all of this behind and say "who cares?", it has to be fought and torn down. Johnson has declared war on us. We have to completely destroy his position now. Anything less will leave his mindshare intact, and leave him free to continue destroying us.
Who cares about the little Charlie and his lizard site!
GOV and The Brussels Journal are excellent and at the top of my bookmarks.
The crawling site has turned into another version of the Daily Kooks...
it has to be fought and torn down. Johnson has declared war on us. We have to completely destroy his position now. Anything less will leave his mindshare intact, and leave him free to continue destroying us.
Oh Graham, you speak such sweet words. I didn't know you could.
And Afonso, here you've got your "Blood, blood, blood!" :-)
Afonso, I was half way joking.
But thanks for a detailed account, I love details.
There are huge archeological Celtic sites around Prague and other places. It is still difficult to establish which way we came in touch with the Celts. Some accounts say the Celts left without any reason given. Our beer might be one of their influences.
I would dig more into the "Arabs". How do you know those folks were plainly "Arabs"? The later wave (Almoravides?) were simply Berbers.
Before - it might be a melange and there is no reason to think the dominant ethnicity was "Arab". We confound the ideology with ethnicity. This is wrong.
The Arab names spread in its pure pronounciation to Persia, Afgh., Pakistan/India. In Maghreb we find names which are different - semitic but not "Arab".
There is also Slavic influence in your Peninsula: They arrived mainly through Sicily. And Germanic - Vandals - the true meaning behind Al-Andalus.
Banned from LGF today for defending Robert Spencer in a thread about the death of journalism [sic] by Victor David Hanson (see: missing comment #240).
The lack of debate at the site has become parody-fascistic.
Johnson's bete noir becomes his best bud.
I said I trusted Spencer's judgment on fighting the Jihad over LGF's.
I guess they don't want to risk any disagreement.
Their snot will be their downfall.
Charles doesn't want to risk victory fighting the Jihad, and the ugly prospect of the preservation of freedom, esp freedom of expression.
'Only Time will Tell'
Afonso,
"The funny is that the more you know about Ukrain the more absurd that country looks".
Is it more absurd than Germany and France? The more you examine them the more absurd they appear. Almost like Pakistan.
Absolutely absurd state was East Germany. Its impact was that big however that it survives until today and all Germans are still divided in Ossis and Wessis.
Russia is an absurd state par excellence. It is so absurd, the people have no idea where the borders might stop. The whole country is a patchwork of very distinct ethnicities in process of merging and reappearing. Like a big sponge, Russia is ready to swollow anything but unable to run herself.
We should study also the map of century long Mongol dominance. For the Russians we are so "Eastern" that the Russian tourist guides explain "the Czechs are Slavic speaking Germans".
Icelanders came from Norway. Their archaic language and ethnicity originates in Norway just like Russian something in Kiyev.
The problem I have with nationalists is the simple fact, that we do not have real insight in various underground streams which define our culture in the best way - when undefined. Our nations are steadily changing and of course relating themselves to one history.
It takes some decades to (re)create a nation. It takes some decades to change a nation, while the name does not change. And we have dozens of nations in Europe living on both sides of borders.
One morning you discover you are Jewish. In few years you can be more Jewish than an average "balanced" Jew. You start noticing this and that what might support your claim. Though isolated you are One man nation by itself...with history of course.
This national identity is a lot easier for us Brits. We have four to choose from: English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish. "British" is the state of identification but not the nationality.
Of course you could get into arguments about who's mercian and who's this and that but, apart from around the borders of Scotland, it's very easy to define who you are based on where you are. The Welsh sayed in Wales because of Offa's Dyke, the Scots in Scotland largely because of the spiky things we kept throwing at them.
England is split in two bya line running from the top of offa's dyke to somewhere on the east coast. North of that line, you're a Northerner. South of it, you're a Southerner. It's partly genetic, but it's cultural too - drop a family north of that line and two generations later they're impossible to pick out, except perhaps by a name if it was stereotypically southern or posh.
So nationalism is a lot easier for us, I suppose.
@CS: Everyone has their moment. :)
Czechmade: "It takes some decades to (re)create a nation. It takes some decades to change a nation, while the name does not change. And we have dozens of nations in Europe living on both sides of borders."
Your point is well-taken; however, just because nations/ethnicities mix, absorb, and transform historically is no reason to abandon the nationalist project. You just accept what you have and try to preserve it. In the case of divirging sub-cultures, such as Galizians, you create a bi-lingual/bi-cultural region. Let them learn both their own language and history as well as that of the larger region within which they are embedded. It can be done. It has been done. What I don't like is a suggestion that, since we've been mixing with others slowly throughout history, we might as well continue mixing the new invaders and form a new global ethnicity. We have a stake in the genetic make-up of our descendents. It's not just the individual "selfish gene" that wants to procreate itself, it's on the level of the genetic pool. Large scale genetic pools are "selfish" - they want to preserve themselves. There is a critical mass of the genetic material you can inject into the genetic pools (and it depends on how close the injected material is). Once you exceed a certain limit, the genetic population changes irretrievably. It is not the same nation any more.
From LGF:
Robert has decided he has more in common with Fjordman than with Charles.
Here is just one example of the type of thinking that Robert espouses.
"There are many more things that need to be done, but to those I would add this above all, from my 2003 book Onward Muslim Soldiers:
• Begin to regard Muslim immigration as a national security issue, and take steps to limit it and end it if possible. (And of course all illegal aliens should be made to leave immediately.)"
I can't figure out what is the matter with this. Of course immigration is a national security problem. Of couse illegal aliens should be returned. On top of this, so should anyone preaching radical Islam.
Looks like Lizard brains simply don't match up.
CJ and his site is not part of the solution. He loves denouncing the obvious cruelty of Big Bang Jihad, but cringes and frowns as soon as it comes to debating actual solutions.
And as for the challenge of Stealth Jihad, CJ is utterly clueless.
Not only that, but "regarding Muslim immigration as a national security issue and taking steps to limit it" is already too little, too late. Some Americans can't wrap their minds around the idea that Europian nations and identities are not premised on unlimited immigration. We are not proposition nation and we are not "countries of immigrants," no matter what our corrupt elites are trying to do.
@Felicie: Once you exceed a certain limit, the genetic population changes irretrievably. It is not the same nation any more.
At an abstract level there's nothing actually wrong with this outcome (as you've said in your second post here) but there are moral and ethical reasons why it should be prevented in some cases. I'm trying to formulate the precise argument for why we should still attempt to prevent it but it's taking a little while to get the words together in my head, but it relates to what you said about proposition nations vs ethnic nationality.
A simple, concise statement on this matter will be a lot to repudiate the smears against us.
Graham Dawson: "At an abstract level there's nothing actually wrong with this outcome (as you've said in your second post here) but there are moral and ethical reasons why it should be prevented in some cases. I'm trying to formulate the precise argument for why we should still attempt to prevent it but it's taking a little while to get the words together in my head."
It is very hard to formulate, because we lack the conceptual apparatus for doing so. According to our worldview, the sense of kinship, the feeling of nationhood are nothing. They don't exist. They are not officially recognized. They are merely an illusion, an atavistic mystification that should be dispelled with the inexorability of human progress. We operate within the paradigm of individualism. According to individualism, there is only the individual desire, but there is no recognition of collective desire, of contagion, and critical mass that achives a simultaneous switch in reaction. Ours is a Newtonian world picture, but maybe we should adopt the language of quantum physics or far-from-equilibrium thermodynamics (I am speaking metaphorically) in order to be able to articulate group phenomena. Because human consciousness is both an individual and a group phenomenon.
I am also wondering is whether teh hysterical fear of the nationalist sentiment is an expression of Voegelin's gnostic rebellion, if I understand it correctly. Gnostic thought is deadly afraid of an unbridgeable distance, of transcendence. It wants to reach everything here and now and convert it into immanence. This is why the idea of discreet nations is so intimidating. If I am a Pole, I can never be a German. This is an option that will forever remain closed to me. So it's a distance that cannot be bridged.
Felicie,
what I wanted to underline - the deportations 1) were not directed at all SudetenGermans 2) it was US/BG/Czechoslovak decision dating back to 1942 - which makes it more valid for our discourse about possible legal/political background - precedence for deportation of alien people who decided to strangulate our political and cultural life in Europe.
It was a Western allies collective decision.
We were left alone for the last two decades to be involved in fruitless discussions with Germans of specific kind tacitly supported by the German Gov. (to lesser extent by Soc. Dem.).
I like the Germans as well. Most of them are not aware of this strange move after 89. And generally there is not much sympathy for those German refugees in Germany propre with exception of Bavaria.
Some Poles can be Germans - in Silesia there are many German passport holders, to less extent in our smaller CZ Silesia too. Then if I had a German granma for ex. I would have got my passport as well.
Apart from that the Poles and the Czechs etc. are not a recognized minority in Germany (unlike Germans here or in Poland). After getting German citizenship we are Germans officially. Many Germans have Polish and Czech names anyhow(and viceversa). So finally it comes to our language skills and cultural thing. Otherwise you are right. In my case I would be never considered a German. My granma spoke with no accent - maybe yes.
Very special case are the Russian Germans - they keep their stronger Russian thing and do not integrate.
Officially Germans in Russia for few generations - they suffer right now living in Germany and are part of the immigration problem scene.
@Czechmade, do you have some English language sources for more information about these German relocations, as I would like to know more about those issues?
Czechmade,
"I would dig more into the "Arabs"."
They were not. They were mainly Berbers. However Islam is Arab Supermacism and is based mainly in Arabic Culture. Much more so in the times of the Caliphate. In practice, the elite here was always composed of an Arab Aristocracy, really with purity laws, you know, the closer you are to Mohamed the better. The Berbers would only come to the (real) top when times were so hard to the muslims they had to call radical warrior sects of islam from Northern Africa. In a way, those Berbers were more Arabs than the Arabs themselves so fundamentalist they were. Al Mansur, a Berber imported from North Africa, made the Reconquista set back centuries...
Usually we use the term Arab or Moor or Muslim. I used it to simplify. Why do you call Latino to the people crossing the border? What do they have in common with the great ones from Rome?
"There is also Slavic influence in your Peninsula: They arrived mainly through Sicily."
As the women leader of the biggest centre-left party, the biggest in oposition and the only party that is not hard leftist and has chance to come to power (the party of Mr. Barroso) said: "The Socialists (in power) are claiming that the works to create an high-speed train (TGV) system and a new international airport in Lisbon would low the levels of unemployment. It is true but those works will only lower the unemployment in Africa and Ukraine". She's right though fewer and fewer Slavs are comming here. I think those recent migrants were the greatest Slavic influence. The Slavic influence here is practically non existant.
The Germanic, that's another thing. Vandâlos + ia = Vandalusia = Andalusia = (The land of the Vandals).
Goths+land = Goda-land-ia = Goda-lun-ia = Cada-lun-ia = Catalonia (Catalonya in Spanish).
Galiza and Nothern Portugal were the home of the first Germanic Kingdom following the colapse of the Roman Empire (Suebi), which conquered what today is 90% of Portugal plus Galiza. Plus the Visigoths. Plus the help of English, Flemish, "Germanic" French, etc. ever since the Reconquista...
"For the Russians we are so "Eastern" that the Russian tourist guides explain "the Czechs are Slavic speaking Germans"."
The more I know about you, the more I get this same feeling. I have already told here that Czechia is the bridge between classical Western and Eastern Europe. But a Czech guy was prontly revolted by my statements. One day, I'll go there to discover it in first hand... As I said: Prague, Lenka, Poborsky. You really could not have had better "embassadors" here.
Czechmade, I did understand your point. My point was simply that whoever was responsible for the policy of Sudeten German relocation should not feel guilty about it.
It was only recently that I came to appreciate the true scale of German expansion in Europe and the fact that many cities outside of Germany proper, such as Riga and Ljubljana, were, basically, German cities. It would not be an exaggeration to say that Central Europe was one huge German empire. This is not an anti-German sentiment, I must repeat. I like Germans. I especially like Russian Germans, because I like Russians and Germans, and Russian Germans embody the best of the two worlds.
Czechmade,
I think you and me have different intrepertations in relation to States.
My view is more European while your is more American, do you understand what I am trying to say?
For instance, in my metaphisical thoughts, France has done a lot of sh*t since the 1789 revolution due to two main reasons:
1) The end of strong authoritarian and mythological Statist leadership. By this I mean the "oh-I-talk-to-animals Kings" to the "oh-I-am-the-State-Kings" passing by the "oh-I-am-the-son-of-Christ-Kings".
2) MULTICULTURALISM. I mean. Look to France and look to Germany. Germany is a pure Germanic Nation. They expanded Southwards and called the Celtic inhabited areas "Welsh" (foreign in old German). But, surprise, even to the South, you can find Germanic areas! Look to the East of them. You people had to deport the Germans en mass (Poland and Czech Republic) but still, a great part of those lands has a German character. The same to the West. Go to Lille and go to Marseille and tell me if it is the same!
I am not saying there are no differences between North and Southern Germans. All I am saying is that all those Germans are Germans due to a NATURAL process.
The French are not French due to a Natural process. They are French due to what I pointed out in my first point. And I would even say that the first point (1P) creates bogus Nation States who can only function properly as long as 1P is in power.
Nobody talks about it but what does the average men of Lille and that of Marseille have in common that does not come from "outside" influences? That was not imposed by the Central State?
In France you know that there are three extreme strong "animals" (I don't know what to call it):
1) The Celtic.
2) The Roman/Latin.
3) The Germanic.
France is a mix of all this. A mix that went wrong in my opinion. But they are so mixed that they are "French". There are no Celtic/Latin/Germanic zones in France! There are MORE this and less that areas of France. In France there are pure Hispanics (Basques) and pure Germans (Alsacians).
That's why Germany is more "healty" than France. And you too can recognise wether a State derives from an healty sense of Nationhood or a sick perversion that puts another interest above the well being of an extended comunity. You said it loudly and clear:
"Absolutely absurd state was East Germany. Its impact was that big however that it survives until today and all Germans are still divided in Ossis and Wessis."
Yes, France is more absurd than Germany. But France is not a big absurdity any longer because the "French" do exist. And you can distinguish "ABSOLUTELY ABSURD" from "absurd", can't you? Now, it is very difficult to defend the existance of a "Ukrainian Nation".
And Russia is not a Nation. It is an empire. There is the Russian Nation and then there is the Russian State which is an empire owned by the Russians and their subdits, the "ethnic minorities" who will be Russified or perish.
As a Portuguese general recently said to the horror of the European Union supporters, Leftists and African "freedom" FIGHTERS who were present:
"Angola is ours! When we got there, there was no State at all and we gained control of the territorry slowly and many times costly, with the help of local populations. And what's the difference between we and the Americans who crushed the Indians? We didn't genocided nobody! And what's the difference between us and the Russians? Like Russia, to us, the Empire was a NATIONAl consensus. Everybody favour it untill very recently. And it was not from scratch. It was for five hundred years. So, are you tell me that the Russians can have the Caucasus and Siberia because they went there by horse and we cannot have Africa because we went on boat?"
The Russian federation is an empire.
"Icelanders came from Norway. Their archaic language and ethnicity originates in Norway just like Russian something in Kiyev."
This is a stupid comparison. The people of the Azores are Portuguese. That is why Azores IS Portugal. We can give them independence that they will continue what they are: Portuguese. They will only have a different State (Like Albania and Kosovo). In a way, you can say that Iceland, Norway, Sweden and Denmark are the same thing. In another level, you can say that Portugal and Spain are the same or that the old Kingdom of Great Brittain and Ireland is all the same...
The second example is an amputation. In the case of Portugal, it is a decapitation. In the case of Russia, Ukraine is the heart of Russia. It all started there. And Ukraine would mean an Europeanisation of Russia. And some people, just don't want to see that happening.
In a way, that's the question. We are assisting two great events that will define Europe:
1-The Europeanisation of Russia.
2-The Islamisation of the Balkans.
Whoever supports the second or does not support the first IS ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTING TO THE END OF EUROPEAN CIVILISATION.
I'd like very much to continue but now I'll have to go. I am here for three hours always trying to find the minimum of free time to make this comment. I now have to get serious on what I am doing. Sorry, I've gone.
Zonka,
try Norman Davies - mainly dealing with Poland, will take you further. I have no idea how good are the sources in English, probably scarce as well. The quality of sources in Czech or German varies - the reason is the exiled Germans hoped for decades to get their confiscated property back - esp. considering our weakness after 89. They got lot of support from gov. of Bavaria also partly Christian Dem. Party etc.
They invested in media as far as in US to promote their cause - cancelling the post-war Presidential decrees. They could use local media - mostly German owned. There was a legal and media war until some years ago. Historians were divided on both sides in various groups. To understand how severe was their attempt you should see the school maps of German-Polish border in Germany. Or mile stones on the Bavarian German-Czech border with signs stating Landesgrenze instead of Staatsgrenze. No state/national border (?).
published for decades as "provisionary border".
"Provisional border" - Polish-German
Felicie,
roughly there are three different "German" state formations very different from each other, often waging wars against each other.
Prussia, Austria, Germany propre (fabulously divided like Italy ante Garibaldi) plus various germanized or bilingual populations plus Hansa city/harbour states plus Jews speaking mostly German or Yiddish (in fact traditional dialect before Luthers High German reform) (is Norway "German"? they were also connected like Riga etc.).
Unification of Germany 1870 - see Bismarck.
@Czechmade, thanks, I'll look into the writings of Norman Davies, is there any particular book you had in mind?
For a rather humorous account of the JW vs LGF meltdown see: LGF's Theater of the Absurde ;)
Zonka,
Europe: A History by Norman Davies is worth a read.
From the youtube video of CJ provided by islam o' phobe, I notice two things about CJ:
1) he seems to look stronger and healthier than I imagined, considering that he must literally be glued to a computer screen nearly 24/7 in order to spot and ban comments that don't pass his muster in an ongoing ocean of thousands of comments (this is not to mention a busy email life he must have, as well as hours spent Googling, in addition to other computer-related activities seeing as he is something of a computer whiz)
2) he looks like a Leftist, with that hair drawn back in a ponytail, combined with his residence in SF, I'd peg him as an ex-hippie who has never fully exorcized his psyche of its radical Leftism, and so the way he hangs on to that is through being virulently anti-"racist".
He doesn't live in SF. He lives in Venice freaking Beach, South Bay los angeles. I suspect that he doesn't post pictures from his bike rides anymore because a lot of people know where the places in the pictures are.
waay back comment:
Paul said...
Lee at Southend:
Pardon my lack of knowledge, but please spell out the contact web address for TRoP and Pam. I know the others. Always looking for a quick connect with good info. Many thanks.
Paul --TRoP is The Religion of Peace blog.
Pam is Pamela Geller. She is Atlas Shrugs.
They are both on our blog roll but I'm too tired to put up a live link. Just go down the blog roll--
Pamela aka Atlas is real near the top. Atlas Shrugs is an Ayn Rand book but you probably knew that.
Pamela takes a lot of flak for getting out there and finding the news. Chazzer was particularly brutal with her...
...otoh, I notice they really slam women there much harder than they do men. Robert is under fire now, and Fjordman was in the past, but their bile is the greenest when it comes to women. The Baron said someone suggested I not read the comments there yesterday because their remarks about me were so vicious. So I didn't. Life is too short to bother.
TRoP is probably under "R" for Religion of Peace. I don't think the Baron used "The" as an alpha listing.
Jeppo,
Thanks for your answer. Very interesting.
And regarding the conference, I know even less than the Baron.
Re Ukraine:
No Afonso, there's nothing absurd about Ukraine as a nation. Not more than many others. It's young and unforged (and yes it could even split up, but I don't think so). But there's nothing absurd about it. Not much more than Portugal for example. The main difference is how Portugal has a much longer history as a nation.
And Czechmade is right regarding Russia. It's a patchwork of many distinct ethnicities. Even more than Spain. This is how the good empires operate. They spread into the domain of other ethnicities. So did Rome in its days.
Afonso,
Of the maps you presented about Ukraine, this one is the most interesting one. The blue part is the pro-Russian part, with high ethnical Russian presence. The rest used to be all "Orange", but it's now split, since the Orange coalition split. The bigger purple part is supporting Yulia Timoshenko. This is the part moving towards Russia and away from the West. Timoshenko refused to condemn the new nations South Ossetia and Abkhazia. The smaller orange part is the remaining part that is truly orange, as in the Orange revolution, support for Yushchenko, and the brave new nationalism that Czechmade has been talking about.
It's interesting to see that the orange part of that map corresponds perfectly to the once West Ukrainian National Republic. This was a breakaway republic from the Austrian-Hungarian empire. There are historic reasons for why they are the most pro-Western Ukranians.
The map linked by Afonso, and the spread of the support of the three main parties reflects perfectly the historical and ethnic background of respective parts of Ukraine, and thereby serves as a key to understanding what's happening in Ukraine right now.
Erich said...
Is Charles Johnson black?
11/01/2008 4:48 AM
That was funny! See what you can learn Erich if you just take a day off from Spencer bashing?
I actually felt bad for you for that comment.
awake is a mosquito.
CS, very interesting map!
Heh. Even a discussion about a nasty rift in the blogosphere is being diverted into serious geopolitical debate. We just can't resist, and that anti-Serbian racist CJ can't prevent it.
I love this place :)
And Erich just showed his audacious ignorance. In a time where GoV is being unfairly labeled as a fascist site that supports racist European groups by the likes of CJ, a visiting commenter posts a loose yet damaging question.
Let me ask you, Erich. Even if CJ was black. So what?
Methinks you have been hanging around Auster too long, and with allies in the counter-jihad movement like yourself, well...you know the rest.
Awake,
Don't conflate Erich with Auster. Erich has his unique ways all in his own right, and he's hanging around here now. Something which I appreciate and welcome. At times I disagree with him, and yes strongly, but so I do with all people here at some point (including you of course). Erich generally makes valuable contributions in his comments here, and when he's at his best he's sparkling bright.
CS,
Point taken about the difference between Erich and Auster, but I believe the heart of my criticism of Erich in this thread was for being ignorant to the racial identity of Charles Johnson. I was not the only one to do so either.
That somehow Johnson's race has any bearing on his actions against Spencer is suspect in itself, and criticism of that position, valid in my estimation, since it is clear from Johnson and others, that attempts to associate racist tendencies to GoV for example, seems all the rage these days.
Regards.
Welp, I decided to register at LGF. God knows why... maybe I'll be able to steer the conversation a little. Maybe it's all just pointless.
I won't say who I am. Let Chuckles figure it out himself.
Awake,
That somehow Johnson's race has any bearing on his actions against Spencer is suspect in itself, and criticism of that position, valid in my estimation, since it is clear from Johnson and others, that attempts to associate racist tendencies to GoV for example, seems all the rage these days.
Yes, that's a good point.
Unification of Germany 1870 - see Bismarck.
Bismarck - the original inventor of the modern welfare state - in the hope that welfare would keep the citizens from taking political power.
Bismarck - the original inventor of the modern welfare state - in the hope that welfare would keep the citizens from taking political power.
How right he was.
Conservative Swede,
you damn right about Ukraine. They are havin new elections now, I am always turning on Russia Today to see the results, I am curious.
About the examples of Ukrainian girls I present, one was from Donets'k and I wonder the other was from the "Orange" Ukraine. I think so because the Eastern one did not commented about Ukrainians from Kyev that way (she bashed them personally, but not "ethnically", you understand? Actually, she bashed everybody, she was not evil but she was a girl :) ).
I remember because I was already fascinated by it and I recall asking her: "Why, is she a Pole?". She just stared at me with those big blue eyes where I could read: "You better shut the f... up because I know once you start talking you can't shut up and nobody cares about that" and my answer was unanswered...
But I think that those "orange" Ukrainians on the map are Poles (or Rhuternians, don't know) from ancient "Galícia" that Austria got in the third partition of Poland.
About Erich, people. Erich has an excellent blog as well: The Hesperado. And he is quiet of an anti-racist in a good way (a better way than Dymphna) though he is as well a "purist". I thought he was just kidding or being ironic. Auster is good as well. His problem is that he is raw and though, but that's not really a problem, is it?
Afonso,
you damn right about Ukraine. They are havin new elections now, I am always turning on Russia Today to see the results, I am curious.
I must say that I love this site. Where people are excited about the Ukrainian election. But not a single word mentioning the American election. When is it again? Tomorrow?
Which country is this site coming from again?
PS. Afonso, your problem is that you are blunt, but that's not really a problem either.
"Which country is this site coming from again?"
Conservative Swede, I'm pretty sure it comes from America. And I'll be the first to mention the American election: I'm voting for John McCain, whom I believe will win over Barack Obama. I don't care about the polls, and to show it, I'll be watching You're Not Elected, Charlie Brown.
Afonso said (who else would be so crude?)--
And he is quiet of an anti-racist in a good way (a better way than Dymphna) though he is as well a "purist".
What part of my anti-racism are you objecting to Afonso? If you're going to find fault, be more specific.
Didn't your mother ever teach you not to compare people? You can compliment one person without slamming someone else.
Or is this payback, hmmm?
Careful there...you'll bring out the Charles Johnson in me and it won't be nice. Everybody has a Chazzer, just lurking on their left shoulder...
Con Swede, you're speaking for yourself here: Afonso's bluntness is indeed a problem because it's often half-informed. Now that might not bother you, but it makes others simply pass by...
Afonso, Ruthenians are not West Ukrainians, they are a separate slavic ethnicity and are themselves discriminated against. I believe that the burgundy incrustation in the orange background on the extreme West of your Ukraine's 2006 election map represents approximately the Ruthenian territory.
I am late to the party - always!
But for my one riyal, whatever it's worth, I just don't find LGF to be a friendly site to ANY outsider. I stopped visiting every day a while ago. Someone said he gets paid for everyone who just clicks to his site. I didn't want to be a source of income when I felt so unwanted. I did go there 1X yesterday - ACE linked to him and in order to see what the "story" was I had to...
Again. Just my riyal. Not worth a whole heck of a lot!
Post a Comment