Monday, November 10, 2008

The End of the United States of America

We have a regular reader here at Gates of Vienna who hails from Tulsa, Oklahoma. Every now and then he’ll drop us an email, with a few kind words of encouragement or a brief news item. But mostly he just lurks.

For the purposes of this post I’ll dub him the Lurker from Tulsa.

Over the weekend the Lurker sent us an unusually long email, at least twenty times his average length. The recent election of Barry Soetoro got him to thinking, and he wanted to share his thoughts with the people on his mailing list. With his permission, I am posting his entire email below.

The Declaration of Independence

The End of the United States of America
by the Lurker from Tulsa


I have no doubt the disagreement with the subject line will be unanimous, but it is my comment. And while I can, I will make it. The subject line of this comment has been formulated by many in the past few days, often in knee-jerk and reactionary formats.

As the liberals on my e-mail list don’t have any attention span past change, hope, and/or yes we can, I’m sure I’ve lost them by now and will address my comments to the rest of you.

Yesterday evening, a staunch liberal, who is a regular in my store, came in. Tony and I regularly share e-mails poking fun or barbs at the other but minimally talk politics. He had just returned from a business trip to Barbados, and came by the store before going home.

We exchanged comments at the counter and then he said something that I knew would be said by one of my customers — my store is a blue magnet — but I just didn’t know when or by whom, and admittedly it caught me off guard. Tony said, “Well, what about politics? You think the world has ended.” I can’t remember if it was a statement or a question but that doesn’t matter. He went on to say that the people of Barbados were ecstatic.

My comment now is no, the world has not ended.

The United States of America has ended.

And this is why:
- - - - - - - - -
It never has made any difference to me if Hussein is Marxist or not, liberal or not, radical or not, domestic terrorist supporter or not. If he wants to, that is his right. What I have a problem with, are the millions of people who are supporting his position.

I constantly query ff @ Joshua Pundit, “How did the country move this far left this fast?” and he always counsels me not to worry, that our nation is strong and it will right itself.

In his own words Hussein is a citizen of the world. His words, not mine. The world wanted Hussein as president of the US. The world, however, does not vote in presidential elections (there will be more on that topic in a later comment).

These words are at the root of my problem with the election:

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s G-d entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

While Hussein has not expressed any opinion regarding our Declaration of Independence, he has commented that our constitution is a flawed document… but I digress.

IMO, when translated, the opening paragraph of our Declaration of Independence says to England specifically and the world in general, s***w you. We are going and making our own way with our own form of government, representative of the people. If you looked around at the time, while England had a parliament, everyone knew where the power lay. All around were kings, queens, and tyrants of various sorts. The US at the time was the amazement of the world to attempt such an experiment. Much less attempting to gain separation from one of the world’s superpowers at the time.

If you look around today, not much has changed. Yes, of course there are elected parliaments and representative bodies all over the globe. However, with sharia law creeping in all over Europe, the re-emergence of the Soviet Union (they really never left), and looking at any other country on the African or sub-Asian continents doesn’t look much different from a couple of centuries ago.

So where am I taking you with all this baggage?

It’s simple really. With the vote last election day, the majority of the American people want to join the world. We want to be like them. We want to be a part of them.

In 1972 if McGovern had stated that he was a citizen of the world, he would have been unable to carry even Massachusetts.

The only redeeming quality of the current occupant of the White House is that he pisses off Europe. And just about anyone else.

And I think that is good.

I ask myself which way and how has the US gained so much population so fast? Is it the immigration of people from the US to the other countries? No, wait, that would make our population decrease.

It basically means that not only do the majority of Americans want to join the world, they are too damn lazy to just leave and let the rest of us be. They want us, the knuckle-dragging, gun-toting, bible-thumping rednecks to live the way they want us to live. No, we are not going to threaten to move to some other country, that is what dumba** (what other kind is there?) liberals say.

What they want is Hussein to be the backstop, their inspiration, their leader for the cause. When all we really want to do is live like the dead white guys intended us to.

I have no doubt that ff is rolling his eyes, hee-hawing, and asking, “Have you not listened to me? The world today is not that simple.”

Yes, I have listened, and while the world may not be simple, the concept stated in the Declaration of Independence is. It is still today and is at the heart of the problem I have with this election past.

Tony, with his comment/question had concerns regarding the world. How nice. Let him be a citizen of the world. I don’t care what the world thinks. I don’t care what the people of Barbados think.

But I do sort of wonder, with that being a Caribbean paradise, why do tourists get back on the planes/boats and come back to the evil USA? And why do people brave shark invested waters to get to the USA, of all places? Why have so many of Hugo Chavez’ petroleum engineers taken jobs in Houston, and not with Citgo?

A lot can happen in four years. And in four years we will be like Argentina, or Brazil, or France (just look at the latest commercial for California tourism). The rest of the world wants us to be like them, and now, so do many of us.

The United States of America has ended and will not come back. The sheep that we are. The lambs we have become. The indoctrination will begin in earnest on 1/20/09. And it does not matter if it is a failure. It will not matter. As long as we are like the rest of the world. That is all that matters now.

If it does fail — and it will — just remember: it’s Bush’s fault. Can you spell Zimbabwe? Can you spell Cuba? Can you spell Venezuela? Those are economies we should aspire towards.

I have one and only one matter to take to heart from this past election day. Looking at a map of the USA post-election. There was only one state in the union that rejected the post-nationalist group think in every county. Yes folks, Oklahoma was the only state in the union to have every county say no to the rest of the world.

Well, I didn’t exactly say no, but for those of you who know me, what I did say wouldn’t come through your e-mail filters. It basically consisted of people’s gray matter turning to brown matter and fornication with a parent and was compounded from there.

As I write this, I can see the LSU/Alabama football game on television. They are playing the game in Tiger Stadium in Baton Rouge, La. That is a big place, that Tiger Stadium. I bet if I googled it I could find out how many seats there are in that stadium. It looks like it seats an awful lot of people. Just curious, I wonder which has the higher attendance today, the LSU/Alabama football game or the Wanamacher gun show here in Tulsa? Just curious.

So this is why I think the United States of America has ended and will not come back. The economic engine will be throttled back and individual achievement or accomplishment will go the same way. Any goal must have Hussein’s or the world’s best interest at heart (one and the same).

Our grade- and high schools have long since been indoctrination centers, not education centers. The colleges and universities were before them.

Make no mistake, we will still have our Super Bowls the first Sunday in February. Fireworks, sometimes, in July. New Year’s will be a time of celebration. And with that, will be the coming thought of — as D at GoV queried — “which piece of furniture do we throw on the fire next?”

For my part, I will hang out my sign:

THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

IT WAS FUN

WHILE IT LASTED

That way they can find me easier.

P.S.: The one good thing about writing this is that usually on Saturday mornings I just sit here and surf the web. While I was trying to write this, it was just one customer after another, continuously, until I finished.

And then nothing.

56 comments:

Anonymous said...

Good for Oklahoma. Now that you know how things are with the rest of the country, I hope you and your neighbors are smart enough to build a fence around your state and not let anyone in, whether they're foreigners or idiot American neocon social workers.

Hucbald said...

Despair is a sin. Never forget that. I live in one of the reddest counties in Texas, and I don't worry that America has ended. All analysis shows that our electorate is still center-right, and that this election went to Obama because of the financial crisis. Even with Bush's low approval ratings, McCain was ahead until the markets melted down.

Obama and the Democrats will over-reach, because they just can't help themselves (leftists have lower IQ's compared to those on the right), and it will cost the seats of many blue dog Democrats - relatively conservative Democrats in red counties - in two years time.

I lived through the Carter years, and Obama's administration will be like Carter on anti-steroids. Carter was followed by? Reagan, after just one term. Unless Obama has Clintonian political survival instincts, which I highly doubt, he'll be a one term president. And, if he does? he'll have to govern from the center-left, like Clinton did.

Of course, anything could happen in this dangerous world enmeshed in a battle between enlightened western culture and endarkend Islamic rage, but with all that is facing an Obama administration, I'm betting in fours time Republicans will be thankful they weren't in power over the next four years.

I'm betting epic fail.

Anonymous said...

hucbald: All analysis shows that our electorate is still center-right, and that this election went to Obama because of the financial crisis. Even with Bush's low approval ratings, McCain was ahead until the markets melted down.

Obama won because McCain was such a bad, bad, bad candidate, even right-wingers such as myself couldn't force themselves to vote for him. What does that say about our country, that there was NO CHOICE this time. We can't stay in denial and figure out how "we" can win next time. The problem is, there is no "we" anymore. Neocons like McCain want to make war to turn foreign savages into Americans, then the survivors get to come here for the goodies. This is not much of an incentive for anyone to vote so called "center-right." If McCain is center-right, America is truly over. If anything is to be salvaged, first of all, Americans have to refuse to keep buying the same brands, even though the vendors have cleverly substituted corn syrup for sugar. My message to the Republican Party: I will never again drink your Kool-Aid until you improve the ingredients.

Alexis said...

For the sake of argument, let's suppose that the United States of America has ended.

What do we want to take its place? Obama will eventually fall, his myth will collapse, and the shattered glass of his smoking mirror will be scattered on the ground. Perhaps a modern day Ulysses will put out Polyphemus's cyclopsian eye that presently stares out onto the American landscape. Perhaps a new false messiah will share the fate of Shabbatai Zevi, that of becoming an embarrassment to those who had believed in him. In any case, Elagabalus will eventually be defeated.

Out of the ruins, we must create something. The question is, what? If I cannot have the United States of America that has existed since 1865, 1789, or 1776, I would like to have some approximation of it that keeps the best features of the pre-2008 Union. We need to consider what it is from the nation we had that are worth keeping and what aspects of America aren't worth the fight.

If the United States adopts the metric system or starts having good professional soccer teams, that would be okay with me. I refuse to concede the First Amendment. I refuse to concede the Second Amendment. I refuse to concede the rest of the Bill of Rights. I refuse to concede the 13th, 14th, 15th, and 19th Amendments. Although Governor Huckabee would disagree with me, I like the 16th Amendment. I think the basic idea of American liberty is still worth fighting for and still worth living for.

Opposition is a time for statesmanship. It is a time for visionary thinking. It is a time to consider what we want the future to become, knowing that we are unencumbered by any responsibility for the present. The present may belong to Obama, but the future belongs those who oppose his presidency. Let’s make sure the post-Obama era becomes something we can be proud of.

Anonymous said...

All we really need is states' rights and freedom of association. That way, people who want multi-culturalism can have it, people who don't want it don't have to have it. Social programs in one state, private charity in another state. Segregation here, voluntary or forced integration there. Americans are a very diverse group of people, and in order to relax and be ourselves, we need to choose who gets to be inside and outside of each micro-community. Who knows, if we could actually choose our neighbors again, we might even like the others. Oh, and let foreigners be foreigners. It's very rude to pretend that everyone in the world wants to be like us. They don't.

Defiant Lion said...

I'm afraid this email contains so much nonsense it's difficult to know where to start.

To seriously accuse the rest of the world for causing Obama's victory is ridiculous. The USA ineterfered in places like South Africa and Rhodesia, it pushes global capitalism around the world and tries to force democracy on people who don't want it.

But correct me if I'm wrong but the shift to the left wasn't that great, given that 63 million Obama and I think about 58 million voted McCain.

What has gone badly wrong in America is the power of the media. Obama is a media construct. Hollywood has been grooming the US for a black president for years in blockbuster movies and TV series.

The US allows political parties to advertise which is a disgrace. The media have also portrayed Obama as some kind of messiah and have been bias with their coverage, again usurping democracy.

What was so bad about this election is the overt anti-white racism. 96% of black voters voted for Jesus mkII. Can you imagine what would've happened had whites done this with the somewhat bland and inept McCain? And had JC2 lost, widespread rioting would've occurred.

But note this. It doesn't matter who you vote for. You will still get energy wars, you will still get mass immigration, globalisation and the responsibility to pay for it will be dumped on the productive as ever.

I have after some years of studying what is happening around the world come to believe that what is going on is a global anti-white (certainly anti-western at least) war. Because it seems to me that countries developed by predominantly white people founded upon judeo-christian values and traditions are being colonised via mass immigration, demonised as racists even by their own kind, they are not welcome in other societies who continue with their identities and traditions and in the case of Zimbabwe and South Africa, genocide against the whites is occurring right now.

Israel is the never ending target of the UN whilst regimes who trample all over human rights are welcomed and supported - by western money. Anti semitism is rife, christianity can be mocked and is in terminal decline in the west while any criticism or mockery of Islam is made a racist/hate crime.

The west is now enetering an economic crisis yet the west continues to be blamed for "global warming", which is a total hoax, and forced to pay for its carbon emissions, which is nothing more than wealth re-distribution to the third-world. All while China and India march on to become the world's new super-powers with the UK giving India £825 million. This to a country with nukes and a space programme.

It is suicidal madness and what is being done is very very wrong. That's my take anyway.

svenskamerikan said...

When the topic turns to America, the first question I typically respond with is 'Which America are you talking about?' or Which Americans are you talking about?'. Because it does make a difference. America is becoming increasingly Balkanized. Respect for dissenting opinions has been replaced with vitriol and demonization.

So yes, in that sense America is indeed over. A house divided cannot stand for long. America is fracturing. Actually, I'm surprised that the bulwark that America's Founding Fathers built against human nature lasted as long as it did. What an impressive group of men they were!

no2liberals said...

Nice rant.
Only I don't think B-HO's election is as momentous as that. He only got approximately two million more votes than Kerry did in '04, but Mc got four million eight hundred thousand fewer than W did in the same election.
Republicans, or rather, conservatives, just didn't vote. Mc was a terrible choice. Here is the red/blue map of '08, and here is the map of '04. We will get past this guy, just as we did Carter, though he can do a lot of damage in the process, as history has shown. The only bright spot about Carter, was he set the stage for Ronald Reagan.
Still, there is the matter of the deadline with the Supreme Court that B-HO must keep, on Dec 1. Many people don't want to discuss his birth certificate, but it is now more than a blogging issue. Until his electoral college votes are certified, and he is sworn in, he is not President.
I do commend the lurker on his choice of terms, though, claiming the U.S. has ended, rather than the uninformed term some use, that "democracy" in the U.S. is dead. Clearly the lurker understands that this wonderful country is not, and never has been a democracy.
It is a representative republic.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what's for dinner.

Jeff said...

The emailer is righter than he is wrong...

Obama got only a little more than Kerry's vote?

The big amazement of the last election was that a Massachusetts ultra liberal with no charisma almost won.

No, the younger generation is NOT conservative.

The country is shifting deeply and it may have just shifted radically.

Bilgeman said...

Lurker from Tulsa:

Look, it's bad, but it's not as bad as all that.

Bush, as President and GOP leader carries an approval rating of historic lows in opinion polls,(low 20's, last I checked), but the Republican candidate STILL managed to carry 48% of voters in a record-breaking voter-turnout election.

I want you to look at this graphic of the results fro the "Blue state" of Nevada, which shows the county-by-county results:

http://news.aol.com/elections/2008/state/nv

Just HOW "blue" is Nevada, really?

Here's your neighboring "Red" state of Texas, by county results:

http://news.aol.com/elections/2008/state/tx

Obama won the urban and suburban areas of those states,in Travis County, TX, (home of "oh so Progressive" Austin), McCain STILL polled a third of the voters.

McCain would probably gotten more votes, had he not spent his career proving to the base that he's a RINO.
I know he didn't get MY vote, and Virginia went "Blue" for the first time in over 40 years.(Instructive, that)

We've been balanced on a razor's edge, electorally speaking, for a long time, so it doesn't take very much weight at all on either side of the scale to send things topsy-turvy.

Obama may THINK he has a "Mandate for Change", let's see what "change" he really wants to make.

In my experience, the cure for Liberalism IS Liberalism, and after 4 years of growing the state at the expense of the citizen, I suspect the biggest "change" that Obama will effect is to turn those "blue" counties back into the "red" in the Elections '12 results.

We've been balanced on

dienw said...

Once Obama's radical associations became known, one could very well understand that the United States would come to an end if Obama was elected. The revolutionaries have won: they will purge themselves of the useful idiots, those within their ranks who aren't fully committed to the cause, and those who do not completely conform to what ever form of Marxism/socialism develops.

The Republic is gone: the American flag, the emblem of that republic, is obsolete: in time a new flag will emerge which the foolish and blind generations will salute. Voting will remain as a means of selecting minor public functionaries from within the Party.

Afonso Henriques said...

"What I have a problem with, are the millions of people who are supporting his position."

Indeed. Sheep you say. I am not crazy by stating that this is just a step further in what was designed in the 60s. Like we in this corner still bare the effects of the deeds of Napoleon.

"The only redeeming quality of the current occupant of the White House is that he pisses off Europe."

I'd really want to know HOW!?? The Europe he pisses off is the Godness, not the Union, or England or France.
Even Russia (the bad guys) are amused with him.

And that Post Scriptum, wonderfull.
I feel the same, I just am sorry for never had set foot in that damned USA.

Americans:

"All we really need is states' rights and freedom of association. That way, people who want multi-culturalism can have it, people who don't want it don't have to have it."

As far as I can figure from here, the only big State which is not in love for Obama is Texas.
What are then the big cities? The big American Centres who you think are still "American"?
New York, L.A., Chicago, Miami? What city is the soul of America?

Geoffrey de Bouillon said...

Latte Island has a lot of the story correct. McCain was never a credible alternative to the Democrats. The One is a typical democrat (only more so.) Defiant Lion also makes an important point: the NeoCon notion that all people want democracy and capitalism seems completely false. I think Lurker from Tulsa is largely correct. The nation has moved left and is moving even further.

The One has made a number of statements that suggest to me that he does not feel limited by traditional constitutional boundaries. If this is true, and it is tolerated by the nation, then we are finished. The results of this election force me to reevaluate my plans for the future.

The One was motivated by the grievance industry and the Hate-America-Left. Those groups appear to hold the whip, now. Centrists frightened by the drop in their 401k's put him in office. Shame on them. Another testament to the indoctrination that goes on in our schools and media.

Unknown said...

In his own words Hussein is a citizen of the world. His words, not mine.

George Washington called himself a citizen of the world. Bush and Reagan used the phrase also.

The world, however, does not vote in presidential elections

Of course it does. U.S. immigration policy is founded on the belief that America is the world. Thus when people from all over the world arrive, they are given full voting rights.

But I do sort of wonder, with that being a Caribbean paradise, why do tourists get back on the planes/boats and come back to the evil USA? And why do people brave shark invested waters to get to the USA, of all places?

I'm not sure why Americans make such a fetish of desirability to immigrants, often in a sulk as above. Even as the mass influx of Mexican nationalists has marginalised the GOP and helped elect a far-left President this attitude persists.

Can't you see the connection between the constant claims that America is moral/wonderful because people want to live there and the resulting immigration policy of allowing people from all cultures and traditions to enter the country?

Defiant Lion said...

For the benefit of righting No2liberal's attempt to belittle me as I am "uninformed" and making this statement:

"Clearly the lurker understands that this wonderful country is not, and never has been a democracy. It is a representative republic."

It pays to understand the meaning of the word "democracy" and Dictionary.com gives a clear meaning:

1. government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2. a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.
3. a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4. political or social equality; democratic spirit.
5. the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.

I assert that USA was a democracy, still presents itself as a democracy but whose media has destroyed the democratic process in the once democratic USA.

Terry Morris said...

The United State of America is not, nor has it ever been a pure democracy (though it contains the democratic element, and though that element has become more dominant since the establishment of the fourteenth amendment), and God forbid that it ever becomes one. Or indeed it will be over.

no2liberals said...

terry,
Yes indeed.
Most people can't begin to grasp the effort our Founding Fathers put into creating this nation and our constitution. Most people have never studied the Federalist Papers.
Democracy is simply majority rule.

James Madison:“There is nothing to check the inducement to sacrifice the weaker party or the obnoxious individual.”

John Adams believed democracies "grant" revocable rights, whereas a Republic secures and protects pre-existing rights.

Which is why we have a "representative republic."
The word "democracy" is never mentioned, not once, in our Declaration of Independence or Constitution.

Of course, it is a constant battle, we can never relent, as government will always try and usurp the power it isn't authorized to have.

I always liked Newt Gingrich's explanation. God is the source of all power, that he gives to us, and we loan to government. In authoritarian/totalitarian systems, the state is God, and they will allow the people certain liberties, which are revocable.

Defiant Lion said...

Terry:

I doubt any country has a pure democracy. Here in the UK and over in Europe we have unelected representatives calling people nazis if they wish to abide by the Irish referendum!

Democracy simpy means that the people have a vote in an electoral system. For me it is enshrined in rule of the people for the people by the people.

That is democracy and is what I am referring to and what I'm saying about the US is that this process has been corrupted by the media.

In Europe it has been positively defecated upon by politicians but that is another topic.

no2liberals said...

Tulsa lurker, if you are out there, here is an interesting article.
Obama Will Overreach.
This sentence jumped out at me.
"Exit polls reveal that many voters thought they were voting not for a liberal, but a tax-cutting opponent of national health care who wants to reach out to all Americans to deal with the problems we currently confront. His campaign ads in targeted states portrayed him in this way in part because he and his managers recognized that while voters were upset with the performance of the Republicans in whom they had placed their trust, they weren’t prepared to reject the values that led them to elect those Republicans in the first place."

Getting good candidates, and effectively informing the electorate, is the major challenge.

Dan said...

I disagree while a frightfully sizeable portion of the electorate voted for just that, it was by no means the majority. Obama won because the opposition lost; the message is: tell me what you intend to do not why I should vote against him! We have had eight years of that and where did it get us; the largest spurt of socialism and nationalization in world history, Ted Kennedy wrote a national education bill that is uniformly wrecking our schools, we are fighting a another long term low intensity conflict that we can not win because America doesn’t have the patience for it (conversely, we have the discipline to fight a short high intensity conflict and our enemies do not.) Etc. etc. etc…

Would Al Gore or John Kerry have done worse? Is Obama’s position on immigration worse than McCain? On energy? McCain lost because they are both lefties and Obama is the stronger leftie and thus better able to excite his base while the right loathed john McCain because he was leftie light.

Dan said...

Keep in mind that there is a natural human instinct to recoil from pain; Obama will not get a second term, and I almost feel sorry for the guy.

Liberals can gain firsthand experience and test this by putting their hand on a stove, send your finger warbling back as often as necessary for comprehension.

Orlando Braga said...

I really think Hussein is a citizen of the world. Check this.

Anonymous said...

Basically, you are right, but there is some small hope for a counter revolution. The economy will soon tank and not hit bottom for a long time. Huge tax increases, huge increases in regulations, and massive new spending bailing out everyone will destroy it all in a couple of years. I hope the counterrevolution follows.

Avery Bullard said...

I'm not sure why Americans make such a fetish of desirability to immigrants, often in a sulk as above. Even as the mass influx of Mexican nationalists has marginalised the GOP and helped elect a far-left President this attitude persists.

I was just going through some of the militantly pro-war 'conservative' sites and looking at their ideas for for rebuilding conservatism. Typical was the Strata-sphere blog: 1) dispense with 'nativists' and embrace Catholic Latin American immigrants, (Apparently they did not get the memo that John McCain was pro-amnesty and was still pushing it a week before his defeat), and 2) make Michael Steele (a black man from Maryland) the new leader of the GOP. At Powerline, supposedly one of the most popular conservative blogs on the internet and they are happy with the appointment of pro-Israel Rahm Emanuel as CoS. Priorities!

I'd say America is doomed. I've thought so since the mid-90s. Why? Because there no longer is a common American nationality. The country is too Balkanised.

Above someone mentioned the 1st and 2nd amendments and freedom of association. Those are all very important but they are not enough. Not all races, ethnic groups, social classes, and regions of your country believe such ideas are in their interests. They will not allow the clock to be turned back. A country has to be something more concrete than a proposition if it is to survive when times get tough. Many European countries may be in bad shape - all GoV readers know that - but just below the surface they know who they are and they also know who does not belong to their nation. Such nations, for all their problems, will likely outlast Americans who embrace all of humanity as potential Americans as long as they mouth the right slogans.

Defiant Lion said...

@Avery Bullard:

"I'd say America is doomed. I've thought so since the mid-90s. Why? Because there no longer is a common American nationality. The country is too Balkanised."

Nail. On. Head. Excellent comment.

This is the big difference. We have nationalist movements who are fighting back by re-establishing identity, traditions and values. I've stated many times that the US seems to now have zero US identity and it has no equivalent of say the BNP or Vlaams Belang. Not that I'm aware of anyway.

It is the nationalist parties who are exposing the the corruption and the duplicity of the EU marxist elite. It is these parties who represent a major threat to the EUSSR coup d' etat and it is why the EU marxists smear them, attack them and are busy trying to gag them.

I just don't see the equivalent in the US and in fact there doesn't seem to be any alternative to the ruling wealthy elite (Republicans, Democrats, the media, and especially the bankers) who are busy destroying what was once the greatest nation on earth. These wreckers and liars still seems to have the respect and trust of their people, a people who they are betraying.

I've mentioned above that I believe what is happening is an anti-white race war. It is certainly that in Europe and I'd be very interested to hear perspectives about what is being done to the US, especially the influence of cultural marxism over there.

I'd also like to hear perspectives about how on earth the US has arrived at this zero-identity (a common US identity that is) state to see if it compares to what has been done to Europe.

Baron Bodissey said...

Defiant Lion --

I’d like to give you the US perspective, but it’s hard to talk to you because of the ferocity of your anti-Americanism. As soon as you discuss the USA, you go all bug-eyed and virtual spittle flies from your electronic lips.

OK; it’s your opinion. Fair enough. You’re entitled to it. But as an American, it makes any reasonable discussion with you problematic, to say the least.

The US that you and any number of other Europeans describe is not one that I recognize. It seems to be an amalgam of various media elements that you have acquired from watching TV. I suppose it’s hard to get any other real information. But it’s important to remember that everything — everything — that you encounter in the media, even (or especially) the American media, has been filtered through the pinko prism of the leftist elite.

That is also the America that elected Obama, so it’s right to scorn it and condemn it. The Messiah phenomenon was a creation of the Soros-backed US elites, and we will have to live with that travesty.

But there’s another America. Many of those Americans didn’t vote for Obama, and most of the ones who did wouldn’t have if they had had any idea of what he is. But they bought the bill of goods sold by their TVs.

They’re not stupid, but they are parochial and local in their concerns. Indoctrination in the schools and on television hasn’t converted them into leftist droids, but it has rendered them ignorant.

If the O-Man follows through with his plans, the otherAmerica will resist, and there will be some form of trouble, but I’m not sure what.

Now. I challenge you, just this once, not to say something nasty about my country in response.

Just this once.

jillosophy said...

THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH AMERICANS IN AMERICA TO SAVE AMERICA. WE'VE LET THE ENEMY IN. PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT TO HAVE WHAT WE HAVE - BUT WHO WANT US TO HAVE WHAT THEY HAVE.

"American" people do not want to join the world.

There are too many non-Americans in America.

They are the ones voting us into oblivion.

They are invading us and will take our way of life away from us.

Indeed, they have.

Conservative Swede said...

No mater how many times I'm called "anti-American" here or at the Brussels Journal, this Swedish Internet Phantom whenever he walks the streets of Sweden as Mr Walker, always ends up in discussions with people such as Defiant Lion when he defends America, or rather: the truth.

The average voter for the Sweden Democrats have bought into the same stuff as Defiant Lion (although not with his ferocity). Same leftist reflexes about Iraq, about Israel/Palestine. They fear Sarah Palin as the "Christian Right", they say Clinton was a good president for introducing European style socialist medicine (since people in their fantasy suffered and died horribly under the previous American system). Etc, etc, etc. Yes, they are just as clueless about America as so many Americans apparently are about Russia. But there is more than cluelessness at play, it's a deep-seated need to vilify the other.

The people I surround myself with isn't this mean spirited kind. When I confront them, they listen and learn. But the next time they have already forgotten, and it's the same routine again. They are fish swimming in the water pestered by the mean spirited ones. And if "everyone" says the same thing, it's gets promoted to being "truth". I'm one voice against hundreds.

This is what the average Sweden Democrats voter is like, so you can imagine the rest. Much worse than Defiant Lion.

Avery Bullard said...

defiant lion: I'd also like to hear perspectives about how on earth the US has arrived at this zero-identity (a common US identity that is)

In 1924 Americans were able to enact an immigration restriction act. Here is what Rep. William N. Vaile of Colorado said at the time :

“Let me emphasize here that the restrictionists of Congress do not claim that the ‘Nordic’ race, or even the Anglo-Saxon race, is the best race in the world. Let us concede, in all fairness that the Czech is a more sturdy laborer…that the Jew is the best businessman in the world, and that the Italian has…a spiritual exaltation and an artistic creative sense which the Nordic rarely attains. Nordics need not be vain about their own qualifications. It well behooves them to be humble.

“What we do claim is that the northern European and particularly Anglo-Saxons made this country. Oh, yes; the others helped. But… [t]hey came to this country because it was already made as an Anglo-Saxon commonwealth. They added to it, they often enriched it, but they did not make it, and they have not yet greatly changed it.

“We are determined that they shall not...It is a good country. It suits us. And what we assert is that we are not going to surrender it to somebody else or allow other people, no matter what their merits, to make it something different. If there is any changing to be done, we will do it ourselves.” [Cong. Rec., April 8, 1924, 5922]


In 1965 when Ted Kennedy got his immigration law approved it was no longer possible - judging by the debates at the time - to talk the way Rep. Vaile did in 1924. By the 1960s not only did a significant proportion of the people have a different historical experience from the descendants of the original colonists but the 'melting pot' had become a 'salad bowl' (as some put it) with each group retaining its own ethnic character but within an American bowl. Jewish historian Max Dimont said of this 'salad bowl':

[W]hat if the result is not an 'American salad' but remains an 'ethnic mix'? Could the continued unity of America be then taken for granted, or would it crumble in an encounter with hard times, as did the 'salad bowl' Austrian Empire?

(The Jews in America by Max Dimont, p.188)

Armor said...

"But it’s important to remember that everything — everything — that you encounter in the media, even (or especially) the American media, has been filtered through the pinko prism of the leftist elite."

How come the American media are controlled by the far left? In centralized countries like France and Britain, I can understand how government control of the media tends to produce leftism. But in the United States, you would expect to have more diversity!

Defiant Lion said...

@Conservative Swede:

I've crossed swords with you before about your snidey insinuations and your ignorance about what a nationalist is and you are at it again.

You have a disturbing tendency to resort to ad hominem by smearing as leftist people such as myself who you are not capable of denbating with by solely concentrating on the issue. So you make outrageous assumptions and pass them off as fact.

You mention me in relatiion to Palestine. Quote me on Palestine. Show me where I have ever acknowledged Palestine as an entity. You can't because I don't and I never will. That's because there is no such thing as Palestine nor is there any such group as a "Palestinian people". They're an Arab - sorry, Muslim - political football. Got that?

And I fear Sarah Palin? Got any quotes to support this? No? Thought not because I have never ever made a reference to her. In the grand scheme of things she is an utter irrelevance. But hey, why let the truth spoil a good excuse to stick the boot in eh?

If you've ever read my opinions on Clinton you will know I regard him as a lying war criminal with Serb blood on his hands. He should be tried for war crimes and executed if found guilty. So where does that leave your silly little tirade? In the garbage where it belongs I'd say and it isn't the first time you've stoopped so low.

If you're going to attack at least have the integrity to cite facts. But as I've told you before you are a disingenuous debater, a sneak who resorts to ad hominem by inuendo and smear. You have more in common with our enemy, they are also quick to resort to the same gutter tactics.

As for my ferocity, can you guess why? Do you think that I am so angry about what is happening just because "he hates those bad yankees"? If you do you are far less astute than you credit yourself as. There are, if you'd care to look around, a number of things happening to western civilisation that have been created by those entrusted to govern and protect us. That means the elite of the US as well as the elite of the EU.

Anyone with more than one brain cell on here knows I am as ferocioulsy opposed to the EU and to the marxists who are ripping my country apart and yet not one of you on here has ever called me for hating GB or hating Europe. Yet I voice these same concerns towards the US and I'm a anti-American, a US hater.

Seems we can lay in to any country but not the US. Where have I heard this tactic before?

But what the hell eh? All you care about CS is proving that anyone who doesn't share your opinions is somehow infected by marxism/socialism/liberalisn. You are more interested in proving your own pet theories than you are as to what the reality is for people who live with the consequences of what Fjordman rightly calls "the greatest betrayal". That's because you are utterly clueless as to what nationalism is all about. But understand this:

What is happening in the EU is also happening in the US. That means there are people in the US who are being sold out by their leaders and who are paying for the privilage just as Europeans are. And you can call me all the socialist/leftist/ignorant/anti american/your slur here that you want but it won't change what has just happened.

And you just don't get it and you never will.

Baron:

Your post merits a lengthy reply and if you wil allow, I will reply tomorrow.

Defiant Lion said...

@Avery B:

Thank you for your civil reply and although this lion is dog-tired (it's 2:30 am here)it has given me a perspective I was seeking.

Let me digest it and if you have any further info I'd welcome it.

And I've just seen Limpet's very interesting post. Good stuff.

Baron Bodissey said...

Limpet --

This is a question that is often debated, but to which I have never seen a fully satisfactory answer.

Part of the problem is the J-schools -- the Journalism Schools through which all TV and newspaper people must pass if they want to get ahead in the field.

Part of the problem is the leftover '60s mentality -- "go into journalism to change the world."

Part of it is the aversion of natural conservatives to the navel-gazing, boot-licking, and arse-kissing that one must endure to get ahead in what is, after all, a very low-paying field relative to many others. Better to go into business.

All of those factors are at work. But, even taken together, they don't explain it.

Yankee Doodle said...

The United States of America, as intended by those who founded this great nation, has not ended as long as I still live.

Zenster said...

Defiant Lion: If you're going to attack at least have the integrity to cite facts. But as I've told you before you are a disingenuous debater, a sneak who resorts to ad hominem by inuendo and smear. You have more in common with our enemy, they are also quick to resort to the same gutter tactics.

Well, well. It appears as though someone else has taken exception to straw men and mobile goal posts.

Seems we can lay in to any country but not the US. Where have I heard this tactic before?

Not from me, not ever. We could not be in more agreement about both the USA and Europe's abundant traitor elite. But, as the Baron noted, dodging the spittle becomes tiresome after a while. I will say that it is good to see you defend the basic norms of proper debate. It will make me a little less likely to just scan past your diatribes in the future.

no2liberals said...

zenster,
You're a better man than me.
Loons bore me.
Scrolling is made easy here, with the name at the top of the comment, and not at the bottom.

Bilgeman said...

"All of those factors are at work. But, even taken together, they don't explain it."-Baron

Would you like to hear a truly cynical explanation?

The MSM is Leftist because the Business Right LIKES it that way.

Long ago I figured out that everything in a newspaper or magazine BETWEEN the ads was largely bunk, designed only to get you to look at the ads.

And since nothing draws a crowd like a controversy, the controversial and the contrarian shall be the order of the day.

What would the NYTimes or the WashPo print if all of their advertisers cancelled their accounts?

Business Marketing is itself a science, and they've got a pretty good handle on the kinds of things a target market would like to hear. I could go on at length about the zip-code based marketing research system,(invented here in Virginia, IIRC), but that would induce MEGO in your foreign audiences.

Suffice to say that Business advertises in outlets where they THINK they'll get the most exposure for their copy.

But Business is as prone as any other endeavor to fools and idiots. More so, since a business hierarchy is by it's nature fascistic.

I've spent a little more time thinking about the ramifications of Obama's election, and I think, based on the county voting records, that George Bush's War on terror has been perceived as being largely won.

The Urban/Suburban voter set is comfortable enough again to give a damn about what foreigners think of us.

Baron Bodissey said...

Bilgeman --

That's an intriguing theory, and at least as plausible as any other that I've heard.

Bela said...

The collapse of the American national psyche is the logical continuation of what started in Europe and now it reached our shore. The open border, uncontrolled immigration, multiculturalism killed the idea of nationhood, and as corollary a large segment of the population haven no connecting ties to Historical America, nor to English language.

When Bush, the president says this, what do you expect?

"America is not an actual place but an idea".

It took about 50 years - from the 60-ties to get here but the disintegration will speed up considerably and there is no way back. With the disappearance of the older conservative generation all opposition ceases to exist and a Marxist dynasty will rule uninterruptedly, - same in Europe.

Let's face up to the harsh, bitter reality: what would be the conservative ideology of the future with which the majority of a hodgepodge, incongruous un-American immigrant population would be willing to vote?

Do any attractive, realistic post Marxist idea exist?

I never heard of any.

Conservative Swede said...

Def Lion,

You can take it easy. The examples with Palin and Clinton were not about you (obviously). They refer to real life events when I have encountered voters for the Sweden Democrats.

My comment was not about you. It took you as a starting point to describe the general situation, and how it goes very deep in Europe.

Interesting however how I managed to get you and Zenster to come together. Cute. Zenster has come to a point when it's more important to be against me, than to defend USA's honour regarding the war in Iraq.

Defiant Lion said...

@Baron:

Your post came as an unwanted surprise because for someone I held in high regard through your writings on this blog, I never tought I'd have to rebutt such a poor and grossly unfair comment.

First you straight-bat demonise me by labelling me "anti american" and you compund your ad hominem attack by painting a graphic "nasty man" picture of me which is unwarranted. You and I both know why you wrote that and it doesn't reflect well on your sincerity.

You then continue with ad hominem accusing me of being unreasonable. Yet you don't cite one instance of where you find me unreasonable, you just make it an insult to support your opening ad hominem.

You then construct a straw man about my sources of information about the US and then attack the straw man so as to further discredit me. Does it not occur to you that as a staunch BNP supporter the last place I get my info from is the MSM? Can you guess why? And does it not enter your mind that as someone who frequents your blog for information not found in the MSM that your blog may be just one of a large number of sites I visit, especially BNP nationalist sites?

You then support my claim that the media and the elites have corrupted US democracy and have dumbed down people into ignorance. At least we agree on one thing I guess.

This style of debate is something I recognise instantly because we in the BNP get it all the time. Logical fallacies and smears designed to stiffle debate by making generalisations so as to undermine the debater so as to avoid confronting the issues -serious issues - that have been raised.

My ferocity - and I agree I am damn angry about what is going on - is directed at our governments In this case, successive administrations in the US who have betrayed their nation and people. Specifically:

War crimes - Iraq, Serbia, Croatia.

Global capitalism

Media influence and their abuse of the democratic process

Mass immigration, including flooding muslims into the US

Anti-white racism, including this blatantly recent anti-white election. I've even stated that I believe this is part of an anti-white race war going on in western societies.

The energy situation especially relations with OUR enemies the Saudis.

You didn't pay me the courtesy of addressing a single one, choosing instead to launch an ad hominem attack on me just because I have raised serious issues concerning all of the above.

What irks, Baron, is that you have resorted to the same debating tactics as muslims do to criticism of Islam. They respond with "Islamophobe", "muslim hater", and the ever reliable "racist". Charles Johnson resorts to the same approach and you rightly castigated him for it.

Why you have resorted to it I don't know, it seems that you and other US people on here will happily give it to the Russians, Chinese, Muslims and of course Europeans and yet you take it very personally when perfectly valid criticism is issued at the USA.

Maybe this explains why you tolerate supremacists like the loathesome Bela, a cretin who has stated on your anti-jihad blog that he will laugh when Europeans are being massacred by muslims and the somewhat intellectually challenged no2liberals who uses offensive phrases like "it takes a certain breed of people" to justify his supremacist hatred of Russians yet doesn't even know that his own nation is a demcracy. Some supremacist. Some idiot.

But you tolerate the blatant hatred of these commenters yet demonise me as "anti american" and yet I haven't said anything like the rancid vomit spewed by these two repulsive characters.

As for saying something nice about the USA that is easy. New England in the fall, the New York skyline, the friendliness of Americans I meet on my travels around the world, I could go on. I love the USA. But I can't say anything nice about the people who run it, from the politicians and the media to the corrupt bankers, I regard them all as traitors who, just as our elite have done, are selling out their nation and people.

That is the difference you and others need to understand that when people like myself raise the issues above and criticise severely the US we are criticising your elite not the US people. Just like I love my country but I hate what the traitors are doing to it and many of the criticisms above I also direct at my nation too. With good reason.

One important point is that Islam is not our main enemy. Our main enemy are our own people, those elected to serve and protect but who are allowing Islam to flourish in our lands.

As a result of your post I have to say I have lost a lot of what I felt for GoV. And at a time when the BNP are growing, I think I will now focus more on the "Battle for Britain" and leave you to carry on your good work fighting the global jihad here and I send you and Dymphna my best wishes.

I've enjoyed it here, I've discovered some fresh perspectives and knowledge and I send my thanks to all of the essayists, especially Fjordman, and to commenters who debated with sincerity and civility.

That rules you out Zenster. (Just kidding dude.) And hey, what's more tiresome: dealing with US criticism from me or watching everyday as aliens colonise your homeland, as your community changes irrevocably, and watching traitors send your country down the pan? Food for thought.

I'm off to kick the muslims and the traitors and the Eurcrats out of GB, it should be fun and let's hope we win the good fight.

Cheers

DL.

Bilgeman said...

Baron:

http://www.claritas.com/MyBestSegments/Default.jsp

Type in your zip-code and submit to see which of 40 representative neighborhoods your zip-code contains.

A fascinating marketing tool,used by political campaigns as well as business advertising.
And, a well-writen book about the PRIZM system:

"The Clustering of America".

Baron Bodissey said...

Defiant Lion --

It’s interesting that you would accuse me of tolerating Bela whilst being intolerant of you, when I have been manifestly tolerant of both of you. Each of you has been allowed to go on at length, insulting other commenters both individually and by nationality.

I usually let this mud-slinging continue past the point of one of our rules — civility — would normally have required it to end, because I hate to destroy the thread of exchanges by deleting comments.

The reason why I said those things to you was that you addressed a question to me directly. If Bela had done something similar — which he doesn’t generally do — I would not have said the same things to him, because he’s not rabidly anti-American. Bela doesn’t hate Americans; he hates Europeans, at least Western Europeans.

Virtually all of the problems with the United States that you identify are true — an ignorant populace, leftist-dominated media, traitorous leaders — and I agree entirely with many of the specific objections you voice about American policies — the war in Kosovo, the handling of Iraq, the open-borders movement, the cozying up to Saudi Arabia, etc., etc.

So what we have left is what I perceive as tone. It seems disrespectful to me, as the host of this blog, to be at the receiving end of such nastiness about Americans in general. But that may just be me being over-sensitive; I’ll let others weigh in on whether your tone goes beyond deeply-felt opinion and into active animus.

But as to who is “demonizing” whom — once again, I’ll let others decide. You and all the others are allowed to spout off here freely without any suppression by me, as long as you abide by the rules (and in some cases even when you break them a bit).

I believe that you have a valuable contribution to make here, and that your opinions have validity. Unlike many other people, both here and across the Atlantic, I don’t rule the BNP off the turf on first principles. I support some of their policies, and object to others.

But your overly-confrontational style of argument interferes with your message. Civility of discourse is a difficult thing to practice when the topic touches on something about which one holds a strong emotional opinion. But I think civility is absolutely necessary. I think we are all doomed if we can’t stop standing up, shaking our fists, and shouting insults at each other.

Civil, temperate, and prudent: the GoV modus operandi. The goal at the end of the day is to hammer out a position that we can all more or less agree on, and to stop the vicious intramural conflict, which will be the death of us.

Baron Bodissey said...

Bilgeman --

That is fascinating indeed! It certainly has my zip code pegged: “Back Country Folks, Blue Highways, Golden Ponds, Shotguns & Pickups, and Simple Pleasures”. Yup, that’s us.

Zenster said...

Conservative Swede: Zenster has come to a point when it's more important to be against me, than to defend USA's honour regarding the war in Iraq.

You drastically overestimate yourself.

Defiant Lion: As for saying something nice about the USA that is easy. New England in the fall, the New York skyline, the friendliness of Americans I meet on my travels around the world, I could go on. I love the USA. But I can't say anything nice about the people who run it, from the politicians and the media to the corrupt bankers, I regard them all as traitors who, just as our elite have done, are selling out their nation and people.

I'll take that as a damn fine starting point. It's good to see some appreication for a change. Even if I still have some very strong reservations about your "War crime" accusations.

One important point is that Islam is not our main enemy. Our main enemy are our own people, those elected to serve and protect but who are allowing Islam to flourish in our lands.

That's as may be but none of it changes how crushing Islam remains the very top priority. If that road leads past the proverbial lamp posts, so be it. But Islam will need to be a bad memory before all of this is over.

... what's more tiresome: dealing with US criticism from me or watching everyday as aliens colonise your homeland, as your community changes irrevocably, and watching traitors send your country down the pan?

Having to deal with both of them concurrently. I'll even go out on a limb here and say, "stick around". Only in this thread have you sufficiently clarified your position to where I am now able to digest some of your rather acidic fare. The Baron's comments about your "tone" are very much to the point.

Baron Bodissey: Civil, temperate, and prudent: the GoV modus operandi. The goal at the end of the day is to hammer out a position that we can all more or less agree on, and to stop the vicious intramural conflict, which will be the death of us.

And you do a splendid job of just that.

Decatur said...

Lurker from Tulsa, I had typed this for another site, but I'm awaiting 'approval', so I think this has some relevance to your excellent post. I've made a few changes so I hope it makes sense.

My take on Obama’s (and all on the Far Left’s)attempts to ruin America,is not that they hate the physical America, but they do hate the American system, the Free Market Capitalism and Democracy that has enabled her to be so successful and the envy of the totalitarians and socialists elsewhere. Obama sees America as completely wrong, but I believe that he is concerned to destroy the current political, social and economic wrongs of America because the this system impedes the establishment of permanent totalitarian rule. Obama is the end product of a long process which has been floating around Washington since the 1930s, the writings of Gramsci and the Frankfurt School’s postwar establishment at Columbia. Their mission to infiltrate all aspects of American society and install Communism has been a long, ongoing process; it certainly didn’t start with Obama. Gramsci’s ‘long march through the institutions’ is clearly coming to fruition this century, and within a few short years America could well be the recipient of permanent change.

The Democrat Party has been thoroughly infiltrated by radical Leftwingers and I can see the same process starting in the Republican Party too,( just how did they end up with a Liberal as their presidential candidate).

Once Obama’s millions of welfare dependents have established the tipping point there will be no way to re-establish a self reliant nation again because the dependents will simply continue to vote themselves continuing government largesse. This is how the Left takes permanent control of any nation.

IMHO, Envy and a pschychological need to be in control are at the heart of modern Socialism, there are many people who are driven to a greater or lesser extent to be in control; the haphazard, risky and fluctuating nature of Capitalism and Democracy makes their controlling personalities very unstable; you can see the rage and vitriol emanating from the Left when they lose (control) and remarkably, it’s still there when they win.

Sadly, America is still the lone fly in the ointment. The history of human civilization has always been that of the ruler and the ruled. American exceptionalism was that it proved that the ‘ruled’ could manage their own affairs without a ‘Ruler’. It intrigues me that so much of the criticism of American success comes from Europe, that the driving force behind Obama’s ideology is European; that Americans are directed to look to Europe for approval, I often wonder if the antagonism, the love/hate relationship Europeans have towards America, is not a hangover from their loss of the American colonies 200 years ago. There is no cure for this I fear. There are no lands left to establish a new nation. Today I hear that Obama’s aide has publically stated that he will ‘take power and rule from day 1’. We seem to have come full circle don’t we?.

Armor said...

"All of those factors are at work. But, even taken together, they don't explain it."-Baron

The domination of the media by the far-left is one thing. What is more surprising is the lack of exceptions. We would expect small conservative radios and newspapers to expand their business in order to cater to normal people who are fed up with leftist ordinary fare. Maybe the problem is that they are afraid to be explicitly anti-leftist.

Unknown said...

Gramsci’s ‘long march through the institutions’ is clearly coming to fruition this century, and within a few short years America could well be the recipient of permanent change.

Here is an actual headline in an Irish Newspaper:

Obama completes his long march to the White House

Bela said...

Permit me to ask fellow conservative travelers: what is the ideology of the conservative movement of today that could present itself as an attractive alternative to Marxism?

What is the world view of the contemporary conservatism that a foreign born, un-American, non-English speaker, incongruous, multi-ethnic population would be willing to embrace?

There is none which is practically feasible; I don't have any idea either.

We cannot beat a populist Marxist propaganda which still heralds the coming of the Worker Paradise by confiscating the wealth of others.

The traditional conservative philosophy: self reliance, individualism against State intervention etc. is obsolete. One can compete against John Smith but not against multinational corp. like Sony. Conservatism rests on pre- WWII condition but inadequate to deal with globalization and mass immigration.

Think about it.

Our weakness is the Messiah's strength.

Bilgeman said...

"The traditional conservative philosophy: self reliance, individualism against State intervention etc. is obsolete."

Perhaps so, but these things can be cyclical, and like I asserted to Tulsa Lurker, after a short period of neo-Marxism, or even "Marxism Lite", the people will be fed up with it.

In many ways, the conservative movement is a victim of it's own successes.

Bela said...

bilgeman:

What you say is correct and true because all Marxist system eventually collapsed - except for a few like Cuba etc.

But none of them (Russia, E. Europe) left behind an ethnically fractured, hostile populace without loyalty to their homeland.
All those defunct Marxist States preserved their cultural traits and homogeneity hence the desire to rebuild.

The US is even worse off than Brazil because all the various ethnic immigrants speak Portuguese over there and don't dream of separate country No multiculturalism in Brazil! while in the US cultural separatism and ghettoization is encouraged.

I don't think that after the Obama chaos ends the US can return to her historical roots.
Those will be obliterated for good; I am pessimistic when I take a closer look at the protagonists of this new plot.

A Kenyan and a large group of Chosen People at the helm is a bad omen even by the Oracles of Delphi.

Niek Bosch said...

From Europe with love:

America is not dead... it has punched itself and is now catching it's breath.

I refuse to believe, that all the great people I met during my trips to the States, or worked with over the years, have suddenly gone mad. Have forgotten what made them outperform almost every European in their chosen profession, their urge for freedom, for choice, for doing the right thing.

You don't kill a giant with a small rock, it takes much more than that and yes, I believe (and pray) that in 4 years the US will have refound itself.

Avery Bullard said...

'Christian libertarian' Vox Day on the impact of demographic change on America:

The permanent Democratic majority

The Kennedy family has a lot to answer for.

Piggy Infidel said...

@Defiant Lion

Hey mate don't take it so seriously (or personally), so much time and goodwill is wasted on these blog sites by people who are basically on ths same side choosing to squabble rather than look for ways to work together - a great shame

I haven't noticed anything insulting in your comments and certainly nothing nasty.

But so much effort being wasted. You correctly identify the snide & devisive commenters who are a constant feature here, but really it's an irrelevance. We are allies, the third world/Muslim invasion is the enemy, along with their lefty middlemen.

Conservative Swede said...

Defiant Lion,

As pointed out by Piggy Infidel, we are all basically on the same side in this forum. You and I agree to 90%, so do I and Zenster. But there are certain beliefs the goes very deep, to a mythological level, where people clashes. Nevertheless we should not forget how much we have in common.

My previous comment (about Palin and Clinton) was about close friends of mine. People that I can talk to (unlike the typical 99% of the Swedes). Nevertheless they hold these misconceptions. But I respect them nevertheless and have a dialog with them. I confront their faulty ideas quite as I do with you and Zenster.

You are right that my formulation of that post was unfortunate, but it gave you the opportunity to remind us that your positions on Israel, Palin, Clinton, etc. are good ones. But nevertheless you are stuck in certain beliefs and attitudes that most of us find problematic.

Let's take this answer of yours to Laine as an example:

DL: Your aggrandisation of the US needs to be exposed for the patriotic flag waving dog vomit that it is.

This is a good example of the tone of yours, mentioned by BB.

DL: Enslave people because of their color, refusing them human rights, refusing to share public spaces and carrying out lynchings outside the law. Remind me, how many years did the US enslave and persecute blacks for? DECADES or CENTURIES?

Wipe out, almost to extinction, the native people of North America cheating them out of their own land as you go. Lovely stuff.


Standard leftist attack on America. I agree America should be confronted for spreading white guilt in Europe. But you have done here is that you have bought into this deranged attitude, while increasing the stakes, continuing to feed this vicious cycle.

DL: Indiscriminately bomb from high altitude using cluster bombs innocent men women and children in Iraq

Another leftist fantasy based on the conviction that America and Americans are inherently evil.

just because you want regime change to legitimise the US oil grab

There was no oil grab or even an attempted one (only in the leftist fantasies). If there had only been.. then I would have had higher thoughts about America.

DL: Believe me I could go on (Vietnam, NASA, globalisation and the banking system being worthy examples).

Yes I believe you could.

My view of America is closer to Zenster. Zenster is right about how America means well. But America means so well that they fall into the trap of "deranged altruism", which is the greatest sin of all. But you have it all upside down Defiant Lion. Then about Russia I'm with you, while it's Zenster who's got his shorts all in twist.

While you criticize America for being too imperialistic, my point is that it's too little imperialistic and that that's the very problem. America is an empire-in-denial, delusional about is "deranged altruism", not taking the proper responsibility of an empire (being in denial about being one), but nevertheless blocking the entrance of a proper empire (and in this sense taking the position of an empire).

So while I agree with Zenster's characterization of America, I disagree with him that it is good. Empire-in-denial and deranged altruism are deeply irresponsible and suicidal phenomena. Self-interest is the only real basis for responsible morality. And the self-interest, the common good, for your nation is the highest good.

My conclusion is that since America has failed, and since it seems to go deep in its nature to fail in this way, that we need to get rid of American influence in Europe and also in other places. You want America out too, but is keeping the cultural leftism that is at the core of its problem. Paradoxically enough, your problem D. Lion, is how highly Americanized you have become in your thinking (as we all know, leftist style anti-Americanism was born in America and then exported).

Unknown said...

I found your essay while searching this topic I guess I just wanted to find out if I am alone in sensing a true end to the US is near following the election results. I agree with you completely and it is our citizens electing this man that tells me the end of our culture/country is near not the man himself. I watched all the cultural changes occur through the years and the mass 3rd world immigration fed that change. Thanks for your insight...SAV Nebraska