But I’m not so sure. Given the absolute ineptitude of the McCain campaign thus far, I don’t think examining the issue of Obama’s citizenship can make matters any worse.
In any case, here’s an interesting video about the attorney who has filed a lawsuit demanding that Obama produce records proving his eligibility to serve as President of the United States.
Hat tip: Aeneas.
[post ends here]
20 comments:
What's been seen online is a bad form of Certificate of Live Birth - not a birth certificate.
He's either hiding something or playing coy so he can make accusations of nefarious intent toward those who want proof of citizenship.
Natalie: I have yet to see a valid birth certificate for Barack Obama. I've seen that one online, and honestly, it looks fake.
Obama's supposed birth certificate doesn't just "look" fake but displays graphological evidence that places it entirely in doubt.
Go to 3:43 minutes into the video, where an image of Obama's putative Hawaiian Certificate of Live Birth is shown. Freeze the image and examine carefully the typesetting of the document shown.
At the time that Barrack Obama was born, all municipalities had Birth Certificates printed in bulk by mechanical means (i.e., a printing press). The vital statistics (e.g., name, time of birth, gender, parents' names), were then typed in at a later date in the various "fill-in-the-blanks" locations on the pre-printed form.
It is essentially impossible for a typewriter in some given city to have the exact same font type and characteristics as the commercial printing press that produced the blank form. Here is a link to an article published by Israel Insider that details much of the controversy surrounding this important issue.
Here is the raw link:
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12939.htm
I first began researching this possible fraud back on June 28th of this year. Here is a link to the Daily Kos web page that continues to display this putative document.
Here is the raw link: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/12/11012/6168/320/534616
While it appears as though Daily Kos has admitted their copy is a fraud, much speculation continues to swirl about this controversy. Here is another link to an article published by Israel Insider that details the credibility issues with FactCheck’s report on this document.
Here is the raw link:
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/13075.htm
Finally, here are links to a pair of excellent articles covering this issue at Atlas Shrugs:
Link 1
Link 2
Here are the raw links:
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/08/the-annenberg-f.html
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/07/atlas-exclusive.html
The second Atlas Shrus link details the analysis of a professional forgery expert.
More than anything, as attorney Philip Berg notes: What is Obama hiding? Why isn't he forthcoming with the physical evidence on this issue? Over and over again, Obama has been shown to lie and misrepresent whenever and whatever set of fact he thinks will get him another step closer to the White House.
The man is quite possibly one of the least qualified or suitable candidates for America's presidency in this nation's entire history. Empty resume, empty suit, empty promises.
Given the absolute ineptitude of the McCain campaign thus far, I don’t think examining the issue of Obama’s citizenship can make matters any worse.
Between the financial meltdown, which may have been an albatross of the democratic party, but has been hung firmly around Bush's neck and the almost staggering incompetence of McCain's election crew to publicize the gaping holes in Obama's background and political resume, the republican party has essentially elected Obama themselves. Should Obama attain office, the republicans will deserve much of the blame for such a travesty.
Hotair has details, there was a birth announcement in the local papers for Obama, so he is a citizen. Berg is a well known Truther, so a conspiracy theory on that account, i.e. Obama not a citizen, is likely simply laughable.
However ... Obama likely DOES have something to hide, i.e. his religion on his birth certificate. Born a Muslim. That's probably what he's hiding.
. his religion on his birth certificate
Hawaiian birth certificates have/had that category?
I went through the links by Zenster and the links by Whiskey. And to me it certainly looks like Obama's got his papers in order (based on what I read and see at Hotair and Factcheck).
Here is a photo of his birth certificate, with seal and all. Please not that nowadays these document are printed from a computer.
Notice also in the video above how in the Indonesian document, Honolulu is stated as the place of birth.
However, there's still the question of whether "Prince Hussein of America" lost his American citizenship in Indonesia.
Conservative Swede: Here is a photo of his birth certificate, with seal and all. Please not that nowadays these document are printed from a computer.
The digital file of bits needed to drive a laser printer's output of a new copy could be 47 years old or 47 seconds old. Somewhere in a Hawaiian municipality's archive there is a paper master copy of the original certificate. If that cannot be produced, there had better well be a damn good explanation (e.g., fire or earthquake), for why that original no longer exists.
I can also assure you that the printer's type font and that of the typwriter used to fill in the original certificate will not match. NO ONE was using (what was then) an insanely expensive computer printer to fill out birth certificates back in 1961.
However, there's still the question of whether "Prince Hussein of America" lost his American citizenship in Indonesia.
This one issue alone should still be enough to disqualify Obama from assuming the presidency.
Again, I still cannot believe that McCain is not beating this issue like a cheap dime store drum. It only goes to show just how effective and lethal Politically Correctness has become. That the republicans have also bought into the PC mentality shows the depths of stupidity they have descended to.
That is a certified copy issued June 6, 2007; see the bottom left hand corner Revision 11/01.
Someone would probably find more dirt looking for his selective service registration.
C'mon everybody, lay off him. His voters don't need to show I.D.; why the heck should he?
If there be irregularities in Obama's claim to be a natural born citizen, the U.S. Senate will come to the rescue just as they have already done with John McCain.
McCain was was born outside of the U.S. and in April of this year the Senate declared him to be a ‘natural born Citizen.’ Who believes that they will not do the same favor for fellow Democrat Senator Barack Obama, whatever his birth status?
Kerfuffles
http://www.obamacrimes.com/ is the website which contains all the legal docs including the Democratic Party's and Obama's petition to dismiss and delay the suit. If there is a U.S. birth certificate why don't they produce it?
Zenster,
The digital file of bits needed to drive a laser printer's output of a new copy could be 47 years old or 47 seconds old. Somewhere in a Hawaiian municipality's archive there is a paper master copy of the original certificate. If that cannot be produced, there had better well be a damn good explanation (e.g., fire or earthquake), for why that original no longer exists.
That is a very good point!
I definitely want to hear the end of this. Where's the original?
I'm no fan of Obama, but I don't see the big deal here. There is no question that his mother was a US citizen, therefore so is he. I also don't see any cause for concern about his stepfather Soetero making him an Indonesian citizen. It was done when Barack was a minor and therefore out of his control. If Barack had renounced his US citizenship when he was an adult, that would be a different matter.
I am much more concerned with Obama's activities as an adult. His ties to Ayers, Dohrn, and Wright, for example. Also his school records at Occidental, Columbia, and Harvard, and whether or not he was admitted to Columbia and Harvard under the racist 'affirmative action' policies.
When McCain's birth place first became an issue, he quickly produced a certified copy of his birth certificate. U.S.C.:Title 8 covers who is or is not a natural born U.S. citizen. McCain was covered by subsection c and g(A).
I have always believed that this is more of an issue than many wished to acknowledge. Especially when his grandmother has announced many times she was present at Coast Provincial General Hospital, Mombasa, Kenya, at 7:24p.m., on 4 Aug 61, when he was born.
Also, when B-HO traveled around the world, before attending Columbia, with no explanation as to how he was able to afford the trip or college, he was traveling on an Indonesian passport, and spent a few months in Hyberabad, Pakistan, staying with the families of his two muslim roommates from Occidental College. Why the Indonesian passport? Indonesia does not permit dual citizenship.
Also, according to the research Zenster noted from Israel Insider and Atlas Shrugs, to this day, official birth certificates are not transmitted electronically, or printed on a computer, but are manually produced on watermarked paper, with a seal, and signature, then folded twice, and mailed in an envelope. Notice the jpeg versions don't indicate any fold marks.
Based on two precedents in U.S. District Court, it doesn't appear Berq is recognized as a person with the authority to seek this info.
The question still remains, why wouldn't B-HO just produce the document? We already know why the Lame Stream Media won't ask.
B-HO is without a doubt, the least known, least vetted, and least experienced person to ever have a clear shot at POTUS.
This bodes ill for all of us, if he is elected. I talked to one of my colleagues, and one of his clients in this area, plans to shut his factory down, lay off five thousand employees, and move his operation offshore, if B-HO is elected. I think capital and jobs will bleed from our shore, if he is.
Other concerns are too numerous to list.
no2liberals: Why the Indonesian passport? Indonesia does not permit dual citizenship.
Why, indeed. Too bad so much time has elapsed whereby there is insufficient reason to expect that Obama might produce an expired passport documenting his travels to those various foreign countries. An Indonesian passport would be truly damning evidence of him having surrendered his citizenship. An old American passport sure would bolster his claim to being a born American citizen.
As with other important documentation related to this man, their lack of production is almost as conspicuous as the potential information that those documents might contain.
Not being an US citizen myself, I really hope we'll get McCain in charge after November. Barack Hussein Obama is, birth and religion issues aside, too inexperienced and probably much too easily manipulated to have any position at that level.
Further, he's involved in the subprime mess (through ACORN) and probably no good in cleaning it up. He's kind, but not by any measure the kind of person to take the nation through tough times.
God help us all...
There is a significant problem for Obama even if you believe his Certificate of Live Birth is a valid one. Why? It is possible to register the birth of a child born OUT OF THE STATE to a Hawaiian resident:
_________________
[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.
(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.
(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.htm
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This his mother, Stanley, had lived in Hawaii for at least 1 year prior to Obama's birth. However, it is perfectly reasonable that she went to Kenya to visit, but was unable to return before the birth, and thus Obama may have been born in Kenay. She then returned to Hawaii and registered Obama's birth in the State.
This would result in his being able to obtain a Certificate of Live Birth but not produce what is known as the Long Form Birth Certificate which is signed by the doctors, has hospital information, etc. Obama has also not produced any of his medical records since the information related to his birth should be included as well.
Whiskey said...
Hotair has details, there was a birth announcement in the local papers for Obama, so he is a citizen. Berg is a well known Truther, so a conspiracy theory on that account, i.e. Obama not a citizen, is likely simply laughable.
However ... Obama likely DOES have something to hide, i.e. his religion on his birth certificate. Born a Muslim. That's probably what he's hiding.
10/12/2008 4:09 PM
Why could it not be the case that his Mother, having lived in Hawaii before his birth, had a notice placed in the local newspaper of a birth announcment of her baby? This would explain the local birth announcement and still not explain the lack of a valid birth document. Would it be possible to comb Western Union records for a telegram from her in Kenya in time proximity to Obama's birth? That would place her in Kenya about the time of the birth.
Just because you are born to American parents does not give you the right to American citizenship. We found that out in sort-of a scary way. We have lived overseas for over 30 yrs. We are both American citizens and our son was born in the States. Once his passport expired and we had to renew it overseas. When we did that we found out he was in danger of losing his American citizenship because he had lived 5 years altogether in the States. Also you have to Pledge the Allegence to the Flag when you do this overseas.
There are two questions here:
- was Obama born in Hawaii?
- did Obama give up his US citizenship when he lived in Indonesia?
To the first, although Obama would be a US citizen if he was born in Kenya (because his mother is an American citizen who has lived in the US for 5 years, at least 2 of which were after she was 14), he would not be a natural-born US citizen and thus would NOT be eligible for the presidency.
The link to Obama's birth certificate is interesting, in that it is dated 7 Aug 61, 3 days after he was born. From what I've read, Obama's mother visited Kenya late in her pregnancy and the rumor is, she was denied permission to board her plane back to Hawaii due to her advanced state of pregnancy. She stayed in Kenya, had Obama, her mother came to help, and then as soon as they could they got on a plane and back to Hawaii. If this is true, Obama is not natural-born.
How do we explain the 'certificate of live birth'? Easy. Obama's mother/grandmother got back as soon as they could, and then applied for a birth certificate to establish Obama's citizenship. This wouldn't be an issue except that he is president-elect and the difference between naturalized (if he was born in Kenya) and natural-born (if he was born in Hawaii). It is interesting that his grandmother repeatedly told folks she was present IN KENYA for his birth. Surely the hospital will have records of live births on 4 Aug 61, e.g., with doctor's info, etc. Note there is no doctor's name on Obama's birth certificate, and it is the short form. There is a document circa 1968 and completed by Obama's stepfather Lolo Soetoro, that shows Obama as an Indonesian citizen, but also as having been born in Honolulu, Hawaii.
As to the second question, if Obama gave up his US citizenship and traveled on an Indonesian passport, then even if he was born in Hawaii that fact is 'wiped out' and he becomes a naturalized citizen (not natural-born) upon his re-establishment of US citizenship. However, I don't believe he did; it looks like he was adopted by his stepfather and automatically granted Indonesian citizenship. Another interesting question is, does Indonesia still consider Obama an Indonesian citizen? Obama did travel on an Indonesian passport in 1981 when he was 20, so both he and Indonesia considered him to be an Indonesian citizen at that time.
Surely there's a Pulitzer Prize (and the undying hatred of 1/2 of America) for the reporter who gets to the bottom of this....
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