Our Danish correspondent TB has translated this lead editorial from yesterday’s
Jyllands-Posten:
Editorial: Islamic injustice
It looks like a big joke: A leading prosecutor in a Middle Eastern state is preparing a case which has as its goal to convict 10 or 11 Danish editors.
The plan, in his exotic brain, is that the Danish editors shall be arrested by Interpol, turned over to the Middle Eastern state, and suffer the punishment which has been decided by the Islamic court of law.
The whole scenario is so idiotic that it initially brings about a mere quiet shake of the head — maybe also in the Danish Foreign Ministry.
Nevertheless, this is about an actual state, namely Jordan, and it is about an actual person, namely a chief prosecutor, who is actively preparing for such a trial.
To the correspondent from Kristeligt Dagblad [daily newspaper in Denmark] he states: “I cannot know what the judge will decide, but I see an absolute opportunity that the judge will ask Interpol to help arrest the Danish editors”.
What kind of madness!
- - - - - - - - -
There have been previous instances in which states run by despotic leaders with a relaxed relationship to both jurisprudence and human rights go through with such trials, which result in the conviction of foreign citizens in absentia. It is usually motivated by domestic reasons — a self-made enemy is a good means to keep a tyrannized population quiet and lead its frustrations and aggressions in what is, for the ruler, a more comfortable direction.
Meanwhile, contrary to the insanity of the situation, the Danish Foreign Ministry should make it clear to the rulers in Jordan that inside their own borders they can of course behave just as idiotically as they see fit, but that such an insane trial never will have any influence on other countries nor on other countries’ citizens.
Maybe, at the same time, the Foreign Ministry could calmly announce to the Middle Eastern dictatorship that one would like them not to interfere at all in internal Danish affairs, including what Danish editors print in their newspapers.
In the current case it is about the Danish security service that revealed concrete murder threats against Jyllands-Postens cartoonist Kurt Westergaard.
These potential murderers thought, according to the Danish intelligence service, that the artist had deserved a ferocious fate because of his creation and publication of a certain drawing.
In full accordance with Danish law, Danish press ethics, and Danish newspaper tradition, 17 Danish papers republished the drawing — several of them along with other drawings made in the same connection.
It is bad form in Jordan, and peace be upon that. At least in this connection.
But the fact that a public prosecutor in Jordan is preparing a legal proceeding to punish another country’s citizens for an act that would have been punishable in Jordan but which is certainly not in the home country goes beyond the limit of insanity and can to begin with only bring about an intense laughter.
Secondly, however, we have to acknowledge that it is a serious matter. It is unheard of that such a dictatorship should want to interfere in internal Danish affairs, and an eventual sentence in absentia could motivate other madcaps to try to go through with what Interpol, of course, neither can nor will do.
Therefore, among other reasons, the Danish Foreign Ministry should react with the grave concern and determination that this case deserves, in contrast to the undisguised madness.
We have learned from the Mohammed crisis and other events that openly rattling insanity has to be met with more concern than objectively seems warranted.
22 comments:
I'm with Denmark and I'm with Danish journalists.
However, it has debated wether we'd object to an extradition of Tøger Seidenfaden (editor of hysterically PC daily Politiken).
I think, due to the principle of the case, that I would.
Note also: This is a subtle assault on the international police system InterPol. Bad.
Go Middle Eastern prosecutor! I'm with ya all the way, chief!
I heartily endorse his action, and hope he carries it as far as he can.
Because THIS is the kind of thing that is required to wake people up to the reality that multiculturalism and western liberty are mutually exclusive.
So, to those who have, for example, spent seven and a half years foaming at the mouth about the world-destroying George W. Bush only to wake up at his political end to find you are... EXACTLY AS WELL OFF AS YOU WERE EIGHT YEARS AGO..... yeah, I'm talkin' to you....well, Mr. Middle-Eastern prosecutor is ringin' a big buzzing wake-up call.
But go ahead. Hit that well-worn snooze button... again.
As the editorial suggests, we need to do something else than expect the Jordanian prosecutor to do the job for us.
I don't think he'll do it well. He'll trick us at some point.
What needs to be done is precisely what the editorial says: We need to object to the case, officially, and make the Jordanian government know that no interference in our internal affairs will be tolerated or respected, in particular interference that would be in violation of our constitution.
There's an interesting detail at stake here, that of jurisdiction. The Jordanian prosecutor is pursuing a case that took place in a different country. Normally that's completely wacky impossible. But what he invokes here is the sentiment of the global Umma. And the problem is that some Islamist religion-obsessed lunatic might be sick enough to execute a judgement from a Jordanian Islamic court here in Denmark.
That is a very real problem.
And we need to stand up to that threat. This is the opportunity that the prosecutor gives us. It's just an opportunity, and it's up to us and our government to take it, and it's important. So far, we haven't done that.
I know our foreign minister to be a fine academic but not a good man in a storm. I hope we can instill him with enough support and courage that he'll eventually do the Right Thing.
Yeah, extradite Tøger Seidenfaden to Jordania. That should set an example for everyone. Nice move! We need to start being bold in this sort of way.
Secondly, however, we have to acknowledge that it is a serious matter. It is unheard of that such a dictatorship should want to interfere in internal Danish affairs, and an eventual sentence in absentia could motivate other madcaps to try to go through with what Interpol, of course, neither can nor will do.
… We have learned from the Mohammed crisis and other events that openly rattling insanity has to be met with more concern than objectively seems warranted.
[emphasis added]
Rattling like a sidewinder. Spot on, Baron.
How long will it be before Islamic governments—denied frivilous lawfare—start using sub rosa proxies to achieve what cannot be extorted from Western legal institutions?
Answer: TOO LATE! Iran already sponsored—with a $2.5 MILLION bounty—the terrorist assassination of Salman Rushdie. This Jordanian keruffle is just another cowchip off of the same old Islamic dungheap.
Henrik R Clausen: There's an interesting detail at stake here, that of jurisdiction. The Jordanian prosecutor is pursuing a case that took place in a different country. Normally that's completely wacky impossible. But what he invokes here is the sentiment of the global Umma. And the problem is that some Islamist religion-obsessed lunatic might be sick enough to execute a judgement from a Jordanian Islamic court here in Denmark.
[emphasis added]
I’m glad to see that someone else noticed this legal equivalent of a trout-in-the-milk-pail. Congratulations, Henrick, this goes to the heart of quashing the global umma’s lust for its cherished caliphate.
More importantly, what sort of suicidal unilateral cultural relativism lets Western politicians give the Koran’s genocidal filth a free pass, while prosecuting Austrian politician Susanne Winter for her reasonable observation that Mohammed’s “marriage” to six year-old Ayesha would meet the current definition of pedophilia?
Please examine the following trio of cartoons that were published in Jordan. All of them are offensive in the extreme and far more insulting than the worst of Jyllands-Postens’ published images.
How is it that Denmark does not have the right to seek punitive damages against Jordan for allowing such incendiary garbage to be published within their borders without corresponding legal action?
Finally, I leave you with this one glaring image.
Is it not astonishing that the Islamic world willingly equates FREE artistic expression with one of their murderous terrorist bomb attacks?
[crickets]
Hello?
[crickets]
Anybody?
I can see Denmark giving in. They are half way to Dhimmitude already. They should go the rest of the way.
Let Jordan try this in an American courtroom. The judge would be laughing her head off before throwing it out of court.
I hope Graham Dawson (Archonix) comes along to comment as this topic reminds me of a discussion on this board from months back - from which I quote the following:
Schengen and Prüm and the arrest warrant that will be along shortly all combine to make safe residence in any EU member state completely impossible
Now I'm unaware of any plans for Jordan to be considered part of the EU or Mediterranean Block, but with Sarkozy's mad plan for the
"http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/10/africa/france.php">Mediteranean Block, the effectiveness of such warrants through ever expanding and elastic nature of Eurabian alliances is alarming.
Finlandis, what you're seeing is weakness of the Danish government, but strength in the civil society - here Jyllands-Posten.
We are getting used to our governments acting like sweet little dhimmis when sufficient pressure is applied to them, or (like Anders Fogh) if sufficient tasty rewards are dangled before their noses.
But the civil society, in the form of bloggers, blog commentators and others without fancy positions to defend are reacting to this, with a vengeance. There's gonna be some tumbling up and down between useless politicians and courageous ones.
For the record, I will defend Tøger against extradition if push comes to shove. He's one of the most insane Islamophiles in the country, and I disagree strongly with a lot of stuff he's said (except when he said last year that Islamism is worse than Nazism).
But I will defend his right to say these stupid things.
What kind of madness!---
is not madness... it's islam!
Now I'm unaware of any plans for Jordan to be considered part of the EU or Mediterranean Block
It might be worth looking up what extradition agreements Jordan has with Turkey. If Turkey managed to accede to the EU we could all conceivably be arrested for "insulting" the turkish state... or anything else.
It might be able to work like this: Asume Turkey and Jordan have a reciprocal agreement on extradition for certain crimes. Jordan issues a legal ruling against someone in a certain small Scandinavian country, which de jure has no legal power within the EU. However, the hypothetical agreement with Turkey provides an avenue for such a ruling to have de facto legal strength. Turkey can simply issue a European Arrest Warrant on an unspecified charge, which is in fact possible under the terms of the warrant since it includes a catch-all that essentially says "oh and anything else as well" in legalese. So your unwitting criminal is arrested by Europol and carted off to turkey for trial. There he's put through an extradition trial, found to be in breach and carted off to Jordan to stand trial again, where he's subsequently executed for blasphemy.
It is a little far-fetched but the fact is that these various, apparently unrelated things interlock in a way that could allow something of this nature to happen.
It all depends on the agreements. If these south Mediterranean countries get into the EU through this back door it would be even easier. A ruling in Jordan could hypothetically be held to stand in any of these other places, too, which removes the extradition step entirely and pretty much makes jordanian legal rulings de jure rulings in the EU. You could see half a dozen arrest warrants for the same man, who'd have to be executed at least a dozen times to satisfy everyone. Well no, the EU doesn't allow the death penalty, at least officially (except that the lisbon treaty does allow for it in certain situations...), but that doesn't mean he won't accidentally fall neck-first onto a sword someone left lying at the bottom of a flight of stairs. Or just disappear.
In theory. It's all in theory. One of the things about the EU that allows it to sneak so much in is just how very slowly it does it, which means that things we're discussing now might not happen for another fifteen or twenty years. They're still waiting to implement portions of Maastricht, for goodness sake, let alone Lisbon. The frog in the pan is flash-fried in comparison.
So, Henrik R Clausen, my words mean nothing?
Henrik,
For the record, I will defend Tøger against extradition if push comes to shove. He's one of the most insane Islamophiles in the country
I'm all in favour of sending the Islamophiles to the Middle East. It's the best solution for everyone. Why let them wait until Sharia law--which they desire so strongly--has been introduced here. Let them have instant satisfaction. And I'm sure the Arabs wouldn't mind having gratuitous infidels to toy around with. And people like you and me will be happier too. It's the perfect solution!
Well - I wouldn't laugh quite so loud..
After all it was a close shave or the ruling of a british court in the slandercase against dr. Rachel Ehrenfeld brought by the banker Bin Mahfouz in London was upheld by American courts!
The New York court initially ruled that it lacked jurisdiction to protect Americans - on U.S. soil! - from foreign defamation rulings that contradict the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, and it took a specific law: the "Libel Terrorism Protection Act" to protect American journalists and authors from foreign lawsuits that infringe on First Amendment rights in the future.
Besides - it all depends on the mindset of the authorities how anti-defamation laws and suchlike are going to be interpreted in our brave new world.
And even if you win in the end: dr. Ehrenfeld has been kept busy and bothered by this ridiculous outrage for two years, it has cost her a lot of money and above all a great amount of stress I suppose to think that her own country's courts would consider even for a minute the possibillity that a Britain's High Court-order to pay over $225,000 in damages and legal fees to Bin Mahfouz, apologize to him, and destroy copies of her books might have to be complied with in the US!
Atlas has the whole story..
The mind boggles: where are the days that powerful countries were willing to send the navy if need be, to protect their citizens on foreign soil! Now they are so disgustingly correct that they won't even protect them on their own soil...
Archonix: but that doesn't mean he won't accidentally fall neck-first onto a sword someone left lying at the bottom of a flight of stairs.
That's nearly as good as:
He have heart attack and fell out of window onto exploding bomb, and was killed in a shooting accident.
Graham,
I don't think your theory is far-fetched at all. And I don't think America is so beyond this foolishness either as Paardestaart demonstrated by referencing the Rachel Ehrenfeld matter.
Even if the citizens of Denmark are rational, wouldn't it be an agent of the irrational government, a judge, that would decide if Jordan's pressure warranted an extradition of Westergaard to Jordan to face crimes that reached their country?
I actually worked on a domestic lawsuit that was filed in a state that had no bearing on the case. But because it was a libel suit involving a book and television documentary, and the book was sold in this particular state, and the documentary was shown in this particular state on a major network, then it was deemed acceptable that this particular state was a proper venue - even though the incident didn't occur here, the writers, the publishers, the producers of the film, and the principals for this story didn't live here, write the story here, film the story here, etc...
If something like the case I worked on could travel across state lines and still achieve proper venue, then Graham, your theory is entirely plausible.
Thankfully we have representatives in the US Congress like Sue Myrick who are trying to bring some of these tactics to the attention of her constituents and fellow congressfolk - Myrick's 10 point plan
Danish resolve is something we should all emulate.
Madness? Are you sure? A cynical EU nobility might find it useful to intimidate troublemakers, like the readers of GoV, by being able to pack them off to Islamic courts. When it's about maintaining power, even the dullest bureaucrat can be a genius. .
But you who live directly under the anus of Brussels would know better than I.
CS, I'm all for letting Tøger live a couple of years in, say, Iran. I did, before the revolution, and it churns my stomach to see what happens in that beautiful country.
But another matter is that of Jordan demanding an extradition. I'm on record contradicting, even ridiculing, Tøger many times. But he's a citizen of my nation, and if another nation demands an extradition of him on basis of their studid laws, my reply would be clear:
NO!
Well, Henrik, never mind which. I'm just enjoying the fact that the discussion is taking place at all in Denmark :-)
There is no difference between what Jordan is doing and what a number of judges in Euoropean Countries have been doing. The judge in Spain seeking the extradition of Pinochet from the UK comes to mind. The recent attempt, by US activists who went to France, to bring VP Cheney into French court.
As far as Interpol goes. It was not so long ago that Interpol was a tool of the NAZIS.
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