Saturday, May 10, 2008

Happy Birthday to Israel from the Persians

During the following week, I will be posting on Israel’s amazing survival since it was granted statehood by the UN in 1948. In that moment, the world (except for the Middle East) celebrated what seemed a miraculous event. Out of the horrors of World War II emerged the bloody birth of a Jewish nation.

In 1948, when there were actually liberal Democrats in the US (and the term “progressive” had yet to become the cover word for socialist) there was great enthusiasm for and belief in this new state. Harry Truman was president by then, and he had come into office with none of the Arab interests that clung to his predecessor.

On May 14th, Israel was born. On May 15th, Arab armies began the first of their incursions. It has been an uphill battle ever since.

The following essay comes from the blog, Amil Imani: Freedom of Iran, whose home page is here. He has an intriguing post re Google’s name change on its maps - e.g., the Persian Gulf has been renamed: it is now the Arabian Gulf. You should examine his images also; they are detailed and interesting. I especially liked the book cover illustration for The Mullah Conspiracy by Cyrus Doost.

Note: the date on the homepage is from last year, but if you scroll down there are posts that are more current.

Now to the essay:

Israel, your people, as well as people of good will, are celebrating your sixtieth birthday. We, the children of Cyrus the Great, also would like to offer our heartfelt best wishes to you on this occasion. Yet, this, in fact, is your rebirth. Your birth occurred some 4,000 years ago.

Everyone is part of the struggle Regrettably, your journey from your early beginning to the present has been fraught with great suffering. It is a tribute to the indomitable spirit of your people that they persisted in their valiant struggle to re-gather again in the land of their birth.

A noble and just Persian king, Cyrus the Great, rescued your people from captivity in a foreign land and empowered them to return home and build their sacred temple. By his action of freeing an entire people from captivity and restoring their rightful dignity, Cyrus the Great, the author of the first code of Human Rights, cemented a bond of friendship between the Jews and the Persians. It was the Just King’s way of setting the world on a course of freedom, equality, and justice for all people, irrespective of any and all considerations.

Yet, your people, Israel, were unable to settle down for long in their own homeland, to worship their God as they wished, and to live in peace. They were assaulted once again by the forces of destruction that sent them scurrying for the relative safety of other lands.
- - - - - - - - -
Your rebirth, Israel, is in reality a culmination of thousands of years of gestation during which the Jewish people, dispersed through much of the world, endured immense degrees and varieties of suffering. The Nazi murderers and their collaborators capped the crimes committed against your people by brutally slaughtering six million innocent men, women and children.

Now, Israel, you are a sovereign state but hardly safe. You are surrounded by nations and peoples who are bent on your destruction. It is tragic that your neighbors and you have not been able to find an equitable way of living side-by-side with mutual respect and in peace.

Many of us Iranians co-suffer with this tragic state of affairs that harms you as well as your neighbors. We earnestly hope that ways can be found for a peaceful resolution of this destructive impasse.

We appreciate the fact that you, Israel, have welcomed the Iranian Jews who could no longer tolerate the rule of the oppressive venomous mullahs. These mullahs are indeed traitors to the lofty long-standing tradition and values championed by Cyrus the Great and revered by Persians throughout the ages.

We applaud you for affording millions of Israeli Arabs opportunities denied to them in many other lands.

Your fair treatment of the Baha’is, Israel, is a further testimony to your ability and willingness to live in harmony with any and all people. In Iran, the birthplace of the Baha’i faith, Baha’is are ruthlessly subjected to a form of gradual genocide by the savage mullahs. Some Baha’is are executed for their faith, Baha’i children are denied university studies, Baha’i holy places destroyed and even their cemeteries are bulldozed, just to cite a few examples. You, Israel, by contrast, have provided the Baha’is freedom to care for their holy places, which were established in the Holy Land during the 19th century, long before your rebirth.

Your perennial prayer, “Next Year in Jerusalem” has finally been answered. We also pray that you succeed in taking the steps necessary for making the New Jerusalem a place of hope and lasting safety for your people as well as people of all religions and those with no religion at all.

Happy Sixtieth Birthday, Israel.


In the recent past there have been some comments in our posts on Israel, and on the subject of Jews in general, that have bordered on the anti-Semitic. This week - and this post - is a celebration of Israel’s existence. Keep that in mind as you comment.

Thanks.

45 comments:

Felicie said...

Some photos of Israeli women soldiers

http://www.serialno3817131.com/serialno5.html

Felicie said...

I'll try again.

Some photos of female soldiers

heroyalwhyness said...

A few links to under-recognized videos available online about Israel/Palestinian crisis by Pierre Rehov -

Suicide Killers 78 minutes length

Trojan Horse, Part 1 of 4
demonstrates, through exclusive footage of Palestinian leaders themselves — including Yasser Arafat — that their goal remains the eradication of the Jewish state.

See never-before-seen video of Arafat calling for jihad and the total destruction of Israel.
See Arafat's spokesman explain the peace process is merely a first step toward the destruction of Israel.
See Arafat's henchmen deny the Holocaust.
See the indoctrination of young children and girls in martyrdom for his cause


Trojan Horse, Part 2 of 4

Trojan Horse, Part 3 of 4

Trojan Horse, Part 4 of 4

Victimhood how NGO's discovered the truth

preview to Hostages of Hatred explains how the Palestinian mindset was carefully orchestrated by the Arabs -victims of war . . .or victims of inbred hatred?

Dymphna said...

Felicie--

Thank you so much for making that a live link to Rachel Papo's photos. I'm so lazy...

Anyway, they are stunning images. I have written Ms. Papo asking permission to use one of them and to explain her book and provide a link to it.

So far, the working title for that post is "A Gun, a Girl, and a Prayerbook."

These girl-women are so vital and beautiful. The images will stay with me a long time.

Dymphna said...

heroyalwhyness --

How long is any given video? I want to watch one, but our internet access is via satellite and looking at videos for any length of time will penalize us by slowing down the connection.

I would like to see at least one of these, though...it will go well with my perusal of The Israel-Arab Reader.

Please, if you don't mind, recommend the specific one that you think is best.

Thanks

Afonso Henriques said...

-Sorry for the arrogance, but there is no humble way to put this things out in the net.

First of all, we (or at least I) are/am used to your radical philo semitism, Dymphna, criticising the tiniest smell of criticism towards the Jews as anti-semitism and taking the Jews as a especial people by right, a better Human type in an almost racist way; as if they were really the ones choosen by God and hated by their fellow Humans because they are Jews. This combined with the typical all American taste for simplification and mythologization of History, which would be a capital mistake weren't Europe under Multiculturalism, Femininism, Socialism, a total absence of morallity, a lack of higher vallues and all the rest we are familiar with that makes this "American disease" seems healty, even though all Obamas one finds in the way.

But it's not about that I am complaining, that was just a provocation, the "root" for what I call a "problem".

Reading the introduction to the essay, it seems that:
1) The good Jews were brutalised by the bad Nazis, worst, Europeans;
2) The good Jews finally got their legitimate Nation in their legitimate lands;
3) The bad muslims went on to attack the good Jews, because muslims are bad.

I'll not talk about the "poor Jew complex" and what happened before 1945, nor will I speak of the many European Jewish authors who were firmly Anti-Semitic during all the XIX century, especially in the Germanic world, and especially in Vienna.

I'll just ask? Are we like LGF? Do we really don't like the muslims just because they are muslims and consequently bad? Especially their grown males?

Can we really not be sympathetic, or at least understand, all the muslims peoples when their land was being colonised by Jews?

I am all in favour of Israel. I think Israel is a legitimate state, but if I were a muslim, I would be pissed off.

Are we so "Progressive and Europeans" that we can not understand the vallue of Jerusalem to the muslims too? Are we so ignorant that we have never heard of Saladin and the Cruzades?

As I have said various times, you can not be defined by being anti somethning, you have to be pro-something.

Muslims are Humans too, we have to try to understand them. But never lose our point of view.

I will ask some more questions:

"In that moment, the world (except for the Middle East) celebrated what seemed a miraculous event."

And, why the hell on Earth should the MUSLIM Middle East celebrate its own colonisation by an alien people with a culture that was different from theirs?

Are we sympathetic to the muslims in Thrace, Kosovo and Bosnia, who have killed our keen people, the Serbs, the Greeks and who knows more who and who would not hesitate to kill us if we were closer?
Are we not sympathetic to the Portuguese and Spanish Reconquista?
Are we sympathetic to the Mexicans crossing over and "Romanising" (Read, spreading Latin culture, which is absurd, but people would not tolerate me saying "Americanising America" what is what is really happening) Los Angeles and Texas? As well as the de-Europeanisation of the American Southwest. Don't you think the same would happen if Virginia or New York were closer to the border?
And, are we so hypocrites that we condemn the Spanish conquest of the Americas as well as the Brittish, that was the BASE for the colonisation and consequently creation of the United States of America?

Why can't we just "understand" the muslim point of view?

Imagine "the Jews were white". Why have Africans and Asians the right to decolonisation but not the Middle Eastern Muslims?

"Out of the horrors of World War II emerged the bloody birth of a Jewish nation."

Wasn't the Nation born out Zionism?
How would you feel if Mount Zion was in New York?
Don't the muslims have a point, at least to be angry, here?

"On May 14th, Israel was born. On May 15th, Arab armies began the first of their incursions."

This shows that the muslims have been sincere since the beginning. I comdemn the terrorist atacks, not the armed conflicts. Also, I condemn Nukes and WMDs too.

The muslims lost, Israel were legitimised. Is it so difficult to understand? That was a "just war"!

The State of Israel has no inherent good in itself, it has no intrinsic vallue, in contrast with the "Jewish Nation". Israel is what the Jewish Nation has been making of it.

Sorry. I stand for Israel, but it is not because they are Jews. I would stand with them if they were Gypsies, black, yelow, brown, blue or green. As long as they had the History of the Jewish people and the State of Israel I would stand for them.

The fact that they are Jews is irrelevant. Jews are not better than other peoples. Or at least, are not better than Europeans.

"These mullahs are indeed traitors to the lofty long-standing tradition and values championed by Cyrus the Great and revered by Persians throughout the ages."

Persia no longer exists. When Persia went muslim, it died. Will it "rebirth"? I don't know.

Dymhna, I make this comment in order to abolish the dogma that every History where the Jew is not the Hero is Anti-semitic.

Happy Birthday Israel, may you be a home to all Jews and prosper!
May Israel survive the muslim powers and destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque!

Conservative Swede said...

Afonso,

First of all, we (or at least I) are/am used to your radical philo semitism, Dymphna, criticising the tiniest smell of criticism towards the Jews as anti-semitism and taking the Jews as a especial people by right, a better Human type in an almost racist way; as if they were really the ones choosen by God and hated by their fellow Humans because they are Jews.

While I have my differences with Dymphna, this description is completely unfair, and even hysterical and rude.

With regards to the context of this article I'm just as philo-semitic as Dymphna, and there's nothing radical about it. And if the point you want to make, Afonso, is that there's nothing special about the Jews, then you are doing a very bad job.

I stated to today, in an other thread, that I trust people of European descent no matter what. This means that even if I see bad actions from individuals or sections from our group, that my trust and support is unshaken. The same with the Jews. Even if the evidence of bad actions from individuals or sections of the Jews would accumulate (with regards to actions in the West), it wouldn't shake my trust and support in Israel. This is what I mean when I say that my support for Israel is staunch and rock solid. And since my view on the issue is of the Benny Morris variety, there's no way to move my position here.

So while I acknowledge that Jews are a different ethnic group from us, I also stress that they are a group that are close to us, and should be held close to us; we have common interests. And in spite of issues at hand in the West today, which needs to be resolved, we should always view the Jews as a natural ally. If leftist Jews lobbies play us, it is because we let them play us, just as we let all other special interest groups. The primary problematic pattern here is with us, not with the Jews.

Conservative Swede said...

This means that even if I see bad actions from individuals or sections from our group, that my trust and support is unshaken

Should say: that then my trust and support for the group as a whole is unshaken.

And I'm aware of that my choice of the word "support" is a bit weird, and it would be more natural to speak of loyalty with regards to your own group. But given the circumstances it's hard to speak in terms of loyalties; this is the degree to which the superstructure (and consequently also the people) of our civilization has been poisoned.

As a consequence I feel disconnected. As an anthropologist.

Afonso Henriques said...

Rapidly, Conservative Swede:

"this description is completely unfair, and even hysterical and rude."

It wasn't to be rude, even less unfair. But I knew it would be "polemical". It is aimed to people who regard the Jews, or any other ethnicity, as inherently good and poor peoples to think twice.

If it is indeed rude, I have to apologise. If Dymphna says it is also unfair, I will apologise. But I remember one time she called me Anti-Semite when I was trying to show the world through the eyes of Nazi, so, I am trying to show the world through the eyes of a muslim now. Jews are not especial for being Jews, and I firmly believe that if Chinese people did what the Jews have done, they would met an Hitler and an Arafat as well.

"With regards to the context of this article I'm just as philo-semitic as Dymphna, and there's nothing radical about it."

I stand for Israel, but I am no philo or anti Semitic. I admire the Jews for their History as I admire the Mesopotamians and virtually all European Nations, and their achievments, as I admire Americans.
But I think there is a radicality when one start to inconditionally "love" one people instead of "admire" it. Especially, when another people suffers with that "love".

"And if the point you want to make, Afonso, is that there's nothing special about the Jews, then you are doing a very bad job."

That was indeed the point, and I am start regreting having commented that way.

"I stated to today, in an other thread, that I trust people of European descent no matter what."

Well, you may have noted my provocation "Imagine the Jews were white".
It is another discussion, weather the Jews are European or not but, I think Israel is a multicultural place and someone showed me satitistics showing that only half of the Jews of Israel came from Europe, being 35% of Israel European-Jewery. It is another discussion.

"I stated to today, in an other thread, that I trust people of European descent no matter what."

But, isn't this racism? I do the same. Though the word is not "trust" but "support". I don't trust anybody. I think I trust the more humble persons. And Europeans are not humble anymore... Also, how many leftists we have here...
The word is definetley support.

I also look to "what is right". And strangly Europeans are always on the right side.
A especial case, Bolivia. I don't know who's right, the Europeans or the Indians. Interesting. Though, I prefer a "white" Latin America so... also, Communism?
But one thing is certain, the "Brown" Venezuelan government has done more for its people than the "White" government of Colombia.
The problem over there is that the Europeans now have much of a "Jewish" mentality. They try to be a previleged minority instead of a majority. They will be killed, as the Jews were in Europe. They should have learnt better. Isn't it ironical that the Europeans of Bolivia now have ID cards with the Star of Davi(d) in it?

"while I acknowledge that Jews are a different ethnic group from us"

I understand the "us" here but I must clearly state that Europe has many ethnicities and it would be strange for "us" to be treating each other as "us" having Jewish comunities in our countries. "Them" and "us" are not religious, are they?

I have to say that this "us" is very fragile. Though, it undoubtedly exists. With the Jews, one has only space for doubts, weather the "us" is fragile or not.

"I also stress that they are a group that are close to us"
Both genetically and culturally.

"we have common interests."

More than that, we have cultural ties and Jews have a right to a home on their own. For me they could conquer Lebanon and half os Syria, call it Canãn and I would still support them. But never, just because they "happen" to be Jew. The vast majority of young people I know like Obama because he is an opressed black person. Being "black", or "Jew", is not a bonus for me and it is racist when it is. This was the line of the "radical philo semitism"

"we should always view the Jews as a natural ally."

Yes, they are. But not because they are Jews. I think we both agree greatly.

"The primary problematic pattern here is with us, not with the Jews."

Of course. And I was criticising Dymphna's ("us") view on Jews. I wasn't critising Jews. I said I support them.

Regards.

Afonso Henriques said...

PS- Conservative Swede, it seem that your blog has no new post since December.

Conservative Swede said...

Afonso,

Jews are not especial for being Jews, and I firmly believe that if Chinese people did what the Jews have done, they would met an Hitler and an Arafat as well.

You might want to rethink what you are trying to say here. Most people will read this as a "chickens coming home to roost" comment. And I have to say, it's hard to read it in any other sort of way. That is, it's a comment congruent to Ward Churchill's or Reverend Jeremiah Wright's about how America had it coming for them, regarding 9/11.

While you know just as well as me that this whole idea is leftish claptrap. That the source of Arafat etc. is Muhammad (and yes, the Islamic influence upon Hitler should not be underestimated).

The issue about Jews is a sensitive one, and for understandable reasons. And right now you are something of an elephant in a porcelain shop. Regarding the issue of the Jews, a suggestion would be that you practice it in other forums for some time, before you bring it up here again.

Fjordman said...

Afonso: Conservative Swede is right. If you want to rant about that issue, do it somewhere else.

Don't understand the massive preoccupation a lot of people have with Jews, anyway.

heroyalwhyness said...

Dymphna, since all the links are to films produced by Pierre Rehov, they are consistent in theme and intensity.

My personal interest in Rehov's films was renewed recently when my teen called me from school complaining that his 'study hall' teacher was discussing how Israeli occupation was to blame for the alarming decline in the Christian population of Bethlehem.

Kids and indoctrinated adults have incredibly short attention spans, so recommending further reading would have been futile. Hoping a video could capture their imagination, I set out to locate one I could send with my son to school for the day.

Having searched my dvd collection, I realized I loaned out my copy of Rehov's other film Holy Land: Christians in Peril long ago, so I immediately replaced it to provide a copy to this class for further discussion/clarification.

My search for that dvd brought my attention to the other Rehov films in my possession. Pierre Rehov's documentaries should be in every school library.

Some are available online with the following time allotments:

Suicide Killers is a film of 78 minutes length via google video.

Trojan Horse is divided into 6-8 minute segments via youtube.

Victimhood is a little over 6 minutes in length via google.

Hostages of Hate is only a preview and about 3 and a half minutes in length via youtube.

Hostages explains the creation of Israel and the subsequent creation of UNWRA, a separate entity from the UN with NO accountability or oversight.

Specific descriptions of each film is available here.

I'm fairly certain that you are well aware of much of the substance in these videos, but the documentation woven together through various print, televised events, and personal interviews conducted by Pierre Rehov is not typically available online.

My personal favorite would be Hostages of Hatred because it clearly depicts the creation of the fictionalized "Palestinian" people. MORE importantly, it exposes the intentionally perpetuated 'refugee' status inflicted on these people not by Israel but by the Arab nations who intend to use them in perpetuity as their wedge to destroy Israel - via UNWRA credibility.

In his other videos, Rehov demonstrates the specific methods used to indoctrinate the Palestinians themselves to embrace their refugee status until Israel no longer exists.

BTW . . .Happy Mothers Day and St. Dymphna's Day May 15.

Dymphna said...

heroyalwhyness --

Thanks for remembering both of those days! My grief having subsided finally, when May 8th (the fifth anniversary of my daughter's death)arrived, I was able to simply remember the good times while she was alive instead of grieving for what can never be again.

IOW, I'm looking forward to Mother's Day -- which is good for her brothers in particular.

I'll try Hostages of Hate.

BTW, are any of these available on DVD?
_________

I know what you mean about kids being indoctrinated with the PoorPals at school. That was one reason -- revisionist history -- that led us to homeschool.

heroyalwhyness said...

Dymphna - kindly check your e-mail.

Armance said...

The problem is the following: that a day should come when we will be allowed to publish a text like that - including in the MSM - about any European country. A day when people will consider a natural fact to write an ode of admiration for Portugal or Poland or Italy or Greece or Russia, etc. and their right to exist as countries with an ethnic or religious majority, without being labeled fascists, Nazis, nationalistic and so on. For example: Happy Birthday to Greece on their anniversary! Greece, I celebrate your right to exist and to defend your identity in spite of everything!

The very day when we will consider a text like that to be natural, Islam will be a matter of the past all over Europe.

Dymphna said...

Armance, you say --

A day when people will consider a natural fact to write an ode of admiration for Portugal or Poland or Italy or Greece or Russia, etc. and their right to exist as countries with an ethnic or religious majority, without being labeled fascists, Nazis, nationalistic and so on..

This is a categorical error at the very least.

Exactly which country has declared it will push Portugal, Poland, Italy, etc., into the sea? What group of nations calls for the annihilation of these states?

Lebanon has been taken over by Hezbollah (read "Iran") for the sole purpose of having a go at Israel.

Do Poland, Portugal, Greece, et al, have universal conscription of its young people in order to maintain a defense force against nations which have invaded it in the past? Are any of these nations currently being shelled from across one of their borders?

France and Italy chose to honor Israel on her sixtieth birthday because it's a miracle she has survived.

By the way, are Greek churches, Polish churches, etc., in other countries vandalized, bombed, or otherwise invaded?

Ask the Jews in Argentina how safe *they* feel. These are the children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren who fled Hitler to begin with.

In Malmo, Jews are told to wear no identifying religious symbols. Since the police don't protect their synagogue, twenty five percent of their budget is devoted to security.

And the day when we will be allowed to publish a text like that -- including in the MSM -- about any European country has already arrived, Armance. Have you not read the high praises for the Palestinians in the MSM. They love Palestine.

If there is some country about which you yearn to write an ode of admiration, feel free to do so right here. I will read it with great interest.

no2liberals said...

The friendship between Jews and Persians is an old one, and still thriving, despite the worst efforts of the Mad Mullahs. In Iran, a child will not be issued a birth certificate if the parents list a Persian name, it must be Arabic. Ayatollah Khomeini didn't have one drop of Persian blood in his rotten body, and that is when the Arabizing of Iran began, in the modern era.
I have an old friend who was a fighter pilot in the Iranian Air Force during the Shah's reign, and after the revolution, decided to stay, as it was his country, and it would still need an Air Force with trained officers, or so he thought. He avoided the firing squad, somehow, and instead was sent to prison for eight years, beaten and tortured nearly every day, before he was released by mistake. He informed me that he flew an F-4 or an F-5 from Iran to Tel Aviv nearly every month, for maintenance or avionics upgrades, and he would fly from Iran to Israel, unarmed and alone, with no problems. He also spoke of how clean and organized Tel Aviv was, and how peaceful life seemed, and he in an Iranian Air Force uniform, was treated with courtesy and dignity. His fondness for Israel showed in his eyes and his voice.
It pains me when I see any reference made to Jews colonizing Arab lands, when the claims to that land by Jews goes back thousands of years. In my view, the Paleostinians are Arab occupiers of Jewish land, and were it not for the absurd decisions made in parceling out the land of the Palestinian Mandate after WWI, the nation of Israel would not be comprised of three strips of desert. In any event, Israel exists, it has not only survived against all odds, but has thrived.
I think much of what irritates the Arab-Muslim world, more than anything, is the example they set by their achievements through an orderly society, self-governance, and education.
There are approximately 1.2billion muslims on Earth, or one-fifth of the worlds population, yet there have only been seven Nobel winners that are muslim, four of them in the "Peace" category, two in medicine, and one in literature.
The Jewish world population is fourteen million, one-fiftieth of the world's population, and they have produced one hundred twenty nine Nobel winners, with the majority being in medicine and physics.
I'm not Jewish, but I do view the Jewish people as special.
I love this quote from Benjamin Netanyahu:
"If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel."
Ain't it the truth!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, ISRAEL!

Armance said...

Dymphna,

I didn't mean that articles in praise of Israel shouldn't be written. I just hope that the day will come when we will see as natural as the above letter texts in favor of any European country. This would be a normal situation - this would be what I call normality.
Any country in Europe has the right to defend its existence, which implies an ethnic and a religious majority. The same as Israel does. Why equating the European countries with Palestine, and not with Israel? Is there a difference between the Israelis' fight for survival and the battle for survival of the Greeks in Cyprus? I cannot see any difference.

Dymphna said...

no2liberals --

Shows my prejudice: I didn't realize there were any Muslim recipients of the Nobel Prize. You give me hope.

Islam does that thing with names everywhere. In Turkey, the Kurds must use Turkish names for their children. So the kids have their "real" names in the safety of their homes, and their state names when they go out in public.

The same goes for speaking the Kurdish language in public.

Yes, Persians have refused to bow to the Arab rulers, even as some of their smaller religious sects have been annihilated.

We had a local convenience store owner who was from Iran. He was fiercely Persian. He also worked so long and hard that within a few years he "retired" to run the apartment houses he had bought in No. Virginia.

Education was extremely important to him. When he found out the Baron had once been a tutor in Math, you could tell that his estimate of the B went up.

Dymphna said...

armance--

The differences, I think, between the situation in Greece and that in Israel can be found in several categories:

1. The hostilities in the former are old and complicated, going back a long, long, time. The same for some of those in Central Europe.

2. There is not a concerted effort, maintained and talked about repeatedly, to annihilate Greece.

3. Is Greece being shelled every day?

4. Is she surrounded on all sides by enemies?

5. Is there univeral conscription for all 18 year olds in order to defend Greece?

6. Do the Greeks have gas masks in their homes?

7. Do invaders sneak in and blow themselves up while taking as many Greeks with them as possible?

8. Have homocide bombers gotten on school buses and blown them up?

9. Have Greek seminaries been invaded and the seminarians shot?

10. Does the UN pass censure resolutions against Greece on a regular, monotonous basis?

11. Are there any countries where Greeks may not travel, where they may not even land in on a stop-over while waiting for another flight?

12. When Greeks immigrate to other countries do they experience persecution there, too? Does that persecution go on for generations?

As I said, if you want to write an ode of admiration for any state at all, please feel free to do so. I think the Baron could write one (if he were here) on the joys and beauty of Yorkshire or Copenhagen -- their people, the beer, the culture, the age-old traditions, the beer, the landscape, etc.

For me, I could go on at length about New England. I still miss it in the Autumn. There is no place as beautiful.

Armance said...

This post is not supposed to be anti-Israel. I'm just tired of playing the "exceptionalism" game, which can be summarized as "everybody is exceptional, except us". I'm not Greek also, but I think this is a very good example. So:


The hostilities are not complicated at all, on the contrary, they are very simple. Greece is a country literally looted by Islam for centuries: deprived by her human and material potential. And now, when she tries to defend herself, she is accused of "human rights violations". For example, when she states that it is only one official religion in Greece.

There is a concerted effort to annihilate any country in Europe.

Regarding homicide bombers and gas masks - it's just a matter of time.

Taking into account the current state of affairs all over Europe, many states have the enemy inside the borders.


The universal conscription should be possible, when necessary, for every country. It would be a very good idea to happen in Cyprus.


"7. Do invaders sneak in and blow themselves up while taking as many Greeks with them as possible?"

The invaders took as many Greeks they could in the past.

"8. Have homocide bombers gotten on school buses and blown them up?"

There were not homicide bombers by that time, but equivalent things happened, on the proportions of ethnic cleansing.

"9. Have Greek seminaries been invaded and the seminarians shot?"

Not only invaded, in the past they were forbidden.

"10. Does the UN pass censure resolutions against Greece on a regular, monotonous basis?"

The UN is a tool of persecution for basically every country - except the Muslims ones.

"11. Are there any countries where Greeks may not travel, where they may not even land in on a stop-over while waiting for another flight?"

No.

"12. When Greeks immigrate to other countries do they experience persecution there, too? Does that persecution go on for generations?"

In what country do the Jews of today experience persecutions, except the Muslim ones or the persecutions perpetrated by the Muslim minorities in those countries?

Armance said...

Correction: ...by the Muslim minorities in non-Muslim countries?

no2liberals said...

Dymphna,
Of course you knew at least two of those muslim Nobel recipients, Anwar Sadat in 1978, and Yasser Arafat in 1994.
As for the Turks treatment towards the Kurds, I believe it was Mustafa Kemal Ataturk that introduced those laws prohibiting Kurdish dress, language, dance, etc., and he was the staunch proponent of a secular Turkey.
I am an avid backgammon player, and often go to coffee shops frequented by people of the ME. Of the players I know, the one's I enjoy playing with the most are from Iran. The Kurds are also enjoyable as players, but for those of other Arab countries, they only enjoy the game if they are winning, and become very emotional if they lose. Especially the so-called Palestinians. Many of them will no longer play with me, and that is as much a function of my skill, as my refusal to tolerate any blather about "displacement" or "occupation."
As for the value of education to the typical Persian, I agree. The fellow I mentioned above, the former pilot, it was with much pride, three years ago, when he showed me his youngest son's certificate for passing the Texas BAR exam.
BTW, if you or the Baron have a moment, go to Amil Imani's archives, to near the first of his essays, and read the one titled "Confessions of A Suicide Bomber." It's long, but by the time you finish, your ribs will be hurting from laughing so hard.

Afonso Henriques said...

First of all, my first objective was acomplished. It was to gerate some polemics here.

But, maybe the content went down the river. When I read that "You might want to rethink what you are trying to say here.", "Most people will read this as a "chickens coming home to roost" comment. And I have to say, it's hard to read it in any other sort of way."
and "And right now you are something of an elephant in a porcelain shop." and "Conservative Swede is right. If you want to rant about that issue, do it somewhere else." I start thinking twice wether it wasn't a better idea to be quiet.

The phrase in question is: "Jews are not especial for being Jews, and I firmly believe that if Chinese people did what the Jews have done, they would met an Hitler and an Arafat as well."

And it may not have been a good cathing phrase. I want to state clear is that I meant that if any other people were to be found in that situations, they would have had the same treatment. Both in Nazi Germany and Palestine. And as so, I would like you to see this question as not "discrimination against evil Jews" but that Jews are a people with "a great lack of luck".
I will not adress to this any longer.

Armance puts his words in a better way than I could ever put mine words:

"The problem is the following: that a day should come when we will be allowed to publish a text like that - including in the MSM - about any European country. A day when people will consider a natural fact to write an ode of admiration for Portugal or Poland or Italy or Greece or Russia, etc. and their right to exist as countries with an ethnic or religious majority, without being labeled fascists, Nazis, nationalistic and so on. For example: Happy Birthday to Greece on their anniversary! Greece, I celebrate your right to exist and to defend your identity in spite of everything!"

The thing is, I think most Europeans know the 4th July but do not know the day their country was born.
I only know my "modern" Portugal to have been born in 1143. More than that I can not tell... Spain, also. 1492, the rest...

Maybe I wanted to spoke his words. Thank you Armance.

"Exactly which country has declared it will push Portugal, Poland, Italy, etc., into the sea? What group of nations calls for the annihilation of these states?"

The European Union as well as our dear leaders and, to a lesser extent, even the United Nations.

Have you noticed that Israel had great and close ties to the Nazi regime of Apartheid's South Africa?

It had that ethnic base, and was ready to Nuke half of Africa if it needed to, just like Israel is ready to nuke half of the Middle East. Now, we in Europe (and Americas and Oceania, etc...)

"Do Poland, Portugal, Greece, et al, have universal conscription of its young people in order to maintain a defense force against nations which have invaded it in the past?"

No, we are being invaded "peacfully". Can you please tell me how isn't English London dead?

"By the way, are Greek churches, Polish churches, etc., in other countries vandalized, bombed, or otherwise invaded?"

Polish, I don't know. But if you go over to Northern Cyprus you will see it happen to Greek ones. The same if there are still any in Turkey. AND I WILL NOT EVEN MENTION THE SERBS IN KOSOVO OR BOSNIA!

I am more, much more, with the Serbians than with the Jews. The Serbs have been there, no metter what. They have been poor and honoured. The Jews have their state given. Now, they will (are) have to fight for it as the Serbs have been done for ages. My country was independent in 1143 and we only had piece with the moors in 1249, with fellow Christian kingdoms, a stable peace came only in 1348.
I am with Israel, but I reckon that Peace will be dificult for them. I am not going there to fight for them. Are anyone here available? If they are expecting to have peace, they better go to the United States because it simply ain't gonna happen. Muslims are everywhere there. And you know, a land that was once muslim, is muslim for ever.

"Don't understand the massive preoccupation a lot of people have with Jews, anyway."
And neither do I...

Homophobic Horse said...

"The problem is the following: that a day should come when we will be allowed to publish a text like that - including in the MSM - about any European country. A day when people will consider a natural fact to write an ode of admiration for Portugal or Poland or Italy or Greece or Russia, etc. and their right to exist as countries with an ethnic or religious majority, without being labeled fascists, Nazis, nationalistic and so on. For example: Happy Birthday to Greece on their anniversary! Greece, I celebrate your right to exist and to defend your identity in spite of everything!"

The problem comes when people say the Jews have set up this state of affairs. But they are wrong to say that, for the true enemy is Cultural Marxism which is the real architect of our cultural malaise. And let's not forget that the Cultural Marxists are explicit in their opposition to the existence of Israel. With us the frank admissions are only intermittent.

Homophobic Horse said...

Here's a video on Cultural Marxists and their plan to destroy western culture.

Armance said...

Afonso,

actually the state of Israel should be an example for all of us. Universal conscription, a state religion, both guns and prayer books in the hands if necessary. Beginning with Serbia, of course: the Serbs still have the guts to behave in this way and they have the context for doing so. But the European states won't be allowed to do something like that in their defense. Only the European ones: it's the double standard of the Western elites. Of course, I don't blame the Jews for that situation. We just have to ask ourselves where this double standard comes from.

"The thing is, I think most Europeans know the 4th July but do not know the day their country was born.
I only know my "modern" Portugal to have been born in 1143. More than that I can not tell... Spain, also. 1492, the rest..."

Sad but true. If we want to celebrate our existence, we have nothing left to celebrate. It's been erased from our memory.

Conservative Swede said...

Regarding Greece, I read an article recently (which I cannot find right now) about how Turkey have been continuing their ethnic cleansing of non-Turks within the state of Turkey all during the 20th century, and by now they have essentially completed it. This affected a lot of Greek people. This land had been Greek homeland since the beginning of time. Robert Spencer is just one example of many such Greeks that are no longer there. And the expansion continues in Cyprus.

These Greeks are worse off than the Jews in Israel, since they are under Turkish jurisdiction. Utterly powerless and forgotten. While Turkey is rewarded by the world community.

A Jewish friend of mine pointed out the Jews is the only ethnicity that has any mythological significance in Christianity. Where the Jews are the only people that are guaranteed to exist until the end of time. Greeks, Italians, etc. do not hold any special place in the mythology of Christianity, and if they would perish Christianity is unmoved. Christianity is a religion that, unlike most other religions, is deprived of ethnic content. People who have adapted Christianity have adapted a foreign God, a sort of an abstract God lacking ethnic content, and if he's got any nationality it's Jewish.

Maybe this is a deeper cultural resonance sound-board from which our inclination to celebrate Israel becomes easier for us than to celebrate any European country. But in my view, instead of lamenting this discrepancy, instead of lamenting how Israel is celebrated as a nation and how it's celebrated when they show their ethnic muscles, we should welcome it and let it inspire us to copy this celebration and apply it on Greece etc.

Christianity is a mental trap here, and makes people of Christian background gravitate towards extremes regarding Jews (secular liberals, whom a often refer to as hyper-Christians, alike).

Go to my blog http://conswede.blogspot.com/ and you will find several articles discussing this. A good starting point are my articles in the section called "Important Posts" a little bit down in the side bar, e.g.:

* Christian ethics--to be or not to be?
* Jewish God, anti-Semitism and Oedipus Complex
* Catholicism--anecdotal conservatism

PS. I hadn't seen the post of Armance when I wrote this, but now it fits well after her post.

Conservative Swede said...

Have you noticed that Israel had great and close ties to the Nazi regime of Apartheid's South Africa?

Who was the leftist writing this propagandistic piece of junk? Pathetic!

Conservative Swede said...

I fear that we have communist activists hacking our threads. Is there anything that could be done about it, Dymphna?

Armance said...

"Christianity is a religion that, unlike most other religions, is deprived of ethnic content."

But it doesn't happen in Eastern Christianity. The Greeks and the Russians believe they are the Christianity itself (especially because it was mixed with an imperial past). I guess Christianity is what people want to make out of it: it can serve different purposes for different situations. It can go in support of or against one's ethnicity.

Armance said...

Or I should add: just because it is deprived on any ethnic content, you can fill it with any ethnic content you want.

kahaneloyalist said...

Armance, you said actually the state of Israel should be an example for all of us. Universal conscription, a state religion, both guns and prayer books in the hands if necessary.
I am not sure if you knew this when you wrote what you did but when we Israelis finish training and become full soldiers we are given our guns and a Tanach. Though Israel was set up as a Jewish state, I dont know if State religions would work in most countries since they isnt part of their reason for existing.

Homophobic Horse said...

ConSwede you're wrong.

Cultural Marxism is responsible for the breakdown of ethnic solidarity and self-regard. May I also remind you that Christianity has declined along with ethnic self-regard with the advance of Cultural Marxism with its "Diversity Training" and rewriting and non teaching of history.

Armance said...

"Though Israel was set up as a Jewish state, I dont know if State religions would work in most countries since they isnt part of their reason for existing."

For some states surely it wouldn't work. I cannot imagine a state religion in the Netherlands (the very idea makes me smile). But for other countries I'm sure it works. Precisely: they are the ones who want something like that because they see religion as an essential part of their tradition and identity. The Serbs know that Kosovo used to be Christian period. They fought against the Ottoman Empire on the grounds of being Christian. Greece, Serbia, Russia, Poland are the first examples which come to my mind. If this is what makes them feel stronger, so be it.

Conservative Swede said...

Afonso,

Seriously. By starting speaking of the Jews you have exposed your communist brain. And I'm disgusted by it. I regret having had friendly exchanges with you.

You are messing up this forum with your junk, and this is the sort of junk I approve of having deleted. Good to having read it first to learn who you really are, though.

Conservative Swede said...

Armance,

But it doesn't happen in Eastern Christianity. The Greeks and the Russians believe they are the Christianity itself (especially because it was mixed with an imperial past).

Which is the result of the weakness of Eastern Christianity. What you talk about are the scattered pieces of an empire that fell. Surely Western Rome fell too, but the city of Rome is not inhabited by Turks today, so the Church survived. So the reason that Eastern Christianity is organized around ethnic groups is because it represents a weak and regressed Christianity.

The Western Christianities that have been vital and expansive have certainly developed into religions deprived of ethnic content, and today even going against the ethnicity of the Westerners. Even Protestantism, that at least in theory should be organized around nations.

Dymphna said...

Conservative Swede:

I think tehe vitality of Western Christianities goes back to that thread of Roman culture in the west.

Come to think of it, the Roman occupation could have had that effect on the Jews that it did on the Gaels and Picts, etc.

Too bad Scandanavia never felt the Roman hand. :-}

Conservative Swede said...

Dymphna,

I think the vitality of Western Christianities goes back to that thread of Roman culture in the west.

First of all, the East was also Roman.

Secondly, yes the Roman component of our culture was pivotal in the success of the West. But now that the flower blossomed in the last century, the Roman component had been rooted out. And left was only Christianity, that religion that solely is deprived of ethnic content. Then God and Christ were also thrown out of the equation, and thereby also the only inner strength that Christianity in itself can present.

Too bad Scandinavia never felt the Roman hand. :-}

Neither did America.

Conservative Swede said...

For those of you who do not have the energy to wade through Afonso's mega-long posts. Here's a summary:

First his typical communist style propaganda formulation:
Have you noticed that Israel had great and close ties to the Nazi regime of Apartheid's South Africa?

Notice how neatly he ties Israel together with Apartheid as well as Nazi regime, just in one sentence. But to be fair I have to concede that Afonso found my description of this a communist style propaganda as "offensive". He claimed that he hadn't "demonised" neither of the countries in that sentence.

And here's another one, of the Ward Churchill / Reverend Jeremiah Wright variety:
Jews are not especial for being Jews, and I firmly believe that if Chinese people did what the Jews have done, they would met an Hitler and an Arafat as well.

I.e. the Jews got to meet their Hitler and Arafat thanks to what they had done. Very bad things I suppose? For killing Jesus?

Dymphna said...

Afonso Henriques said...
And once again I have to make a lengthy thread…

No, you don't "have to" make a lengthy thread. You choose to do so.

And I choose to delete it.

That was 10 pages amounting to 3,188 words.

Afonso -- get your own blog if you want to write long essays. Another blog's comment section is not the place for this kind of thing.

latté island said...

Afonso wrote: Have you noticed that Israel had great and close ties to the Nazi regime of Apartheid's South Africa?

I have to nit-pick here. South Africa was not Nazi, it was on the Allied side in WWII. If you look at what has happened to South Africa since the end of apartheid, it may give you some insight as to apartheid's purpose in the first place. I think the Nazi label is inaccurate here. In fact, the black population of South Africa exploded after the whites showed up and colonised the place. There was no ethnic cleansing. The only ethnic cleansing that ever took place there is going on now, of whites by blacks.

Afonso Henriques said...

So here goes a small thread.

Latté Island,

Yes you are right. I should have said "Nazi" instead of Nazi. I said it was Nazi because people usually consider both regimes, Nazi Germany and Apartheid's South Africa, to be evil.
Then I explained why there was a conection. But Conservative Swede and others seem to not tolerate a "colonised" State unless it is colonised by Jews.
And I guess the New World does not count, does it?

"First his typical communist style propaganda formulation..."

And notice how Conservative Swede fail to say that the formulation is propagandistic or communist.
It smells like ad hominem to me. Especially because what I said was a simple Historical fact.

"Notice how neatly he ties Israel together with Apartheid as well as Nazi regime, just in one sentence. But to be fair I have to concede that Afonso found my description of this a communist style propaganda as "offensive". He claimed that he hadn't "demonised" neither of the countries in that sentence."

Your argument being?
Oh yes, non existant.

People, do one thing:
Compare the Jewish minority in Europe with the other Historical minorities. Being it Gypsies, Lapps, whoever.
And you want me to believe that the Jews are the one who are mistreated?

Also, have you noticed how there only exists two sucssessfull minorities in the world:
The Jews, in Europe and where they go and the Chinese in South Asia.

Well, I will not talk more about Jews or Israel unless I am to read a real argument against what I have said or thought. So, long live Israel, a home for the Jewish people!

"get your own blog if you want to write long essays. Another blog's comment section is not the place for this kind of thing."

Ok. I understand that, sorry for something.

Sultan Knish said...

every country that exists was colonized by someone and then recolonized by someone else

the whole premise of colonization is a postmodern construction and a myth