Then and Now: Part Four

Allah, the Netherlands, and the House of Orange

The fourth video in this series brings us forward to January of this year. The same month that Geert Wilders went on trial in Amsterdam for inciting hatred and discrimination, a variety of religious luminaries met in Utrecht to declare their support for an official multi-religious Dutch state that includes Islam.

In the presence of Queen Beatrix, twenty-three religious organizations — of which thirteen were Islamic — signed a declaration confirming tolerance, respect and equality for all people. In his speech, Christian Democrat Minister of Justice Hirsh Ballin hailed the golden era of Al-Andalus and pleaded for a closer alliance of Church and State.

Many condemned this gross violation of the separation of Church and State and considered the hypocrisy a “slap in the face of the many victims of Islam”.

In the video below, the Jewish-Christian Pastor Ben Kok questions Muslims who signed the declaration. Many thanks to our Flemish correspondent VH for the translation and to Vlad Tepes for the subtitling:


A full transcript is below the jump.
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00:03		00:07		We are at the Academy building near the cathedral in Utrecht; the Queen has just gone inside.
00:07		00:15		And inside some six religions are together: Jewish, Christian, Buddhist. Hindu, and not to forget, Islam.
00:15		00:21		And that is exactly why we are here, to proclaim that our Judeo-Christian identity …
00:25		00:29		…that the Jewish-Christian identity will be retained in this country and not undermined by Islamization…
00:29		00:33		…which this afternoon is poured over us with this meeting.
00:33		00:40		For it is too crazy for words, but almost all Dutch churches, via the Council of Churches and the Evangelical Alliance…
00:40		00:46		…plus politics, Justice Minister Ernst Hirsch Ballin and the Queen, and Jorritsma on behalf of Dutch municipalities,
00:46		00:54		politics and clergy, are together here to proclaim that Islam is equivalent of Judeo-Christian values.
00:54		00:00		And we know that this not so in Islam, because it divides people into two categories, Muslims and non-Muslims.
01:00		01:05		And you can see in the sources, the Koran and the hadith, and the life of the Prophet Muhammad…
01:05		01:10		that there is a big difference: non-Muslims are indeed apes, pigs, dhimmis, fuel for hell…
01:10		01:16		…and should be suppressed and destroyed, and the Muslims are the better nation, and thus must conquer.
01:16		01:22		Yet inside here, all these people together, notably in the presence of the Queen…
01:22		01:27		…clearly state that Islam is equivalent to all the Judeo-Christian values in our country. And that is a disgraceful lie.
01:29		01:34		Islam divides people in two compartments, Muslims, the good nation, and non-Muslims…
01:34		01:40		…as is literally stated in the texts: monkeys, pigs, dhimmis, fuel for hell. What do you think?
01:40		01:46		“Yes, I think … well, I actually do not know much of it, but, well…”
01:46		01:50		Have you ever read the Koran? [“Yes”] So you did, because it is in there.
01:50		01:57		“The presence of the Queen did us good, we were happy to be here.”
01:57		02:02		Yes, I can imagine that. Today a declaration has been read out which states…
02:02		02:06		… that all religions present here are based on the equality of all people.
02:06		02:13		“Yes, you must observe peace together, and freedom, we must all be one, not two, or three or four.”
02:13		02:19		[Well said.] “We are for all religions together, we simply are the Netherlands”
02:19		02:23		The Quran is the most sacred book for you, and also in the hadith we read what I just said…
02:23		02:27		…that non-Muslims are not at all regarded as equal…
02:27		02:31		…because Muslims themselves are the good nation as the Koran states…
02:31		02:35		and non-Muslims belong to the monkeys, pigs, dhimmis…
02:35		02:39		…worthless fellows, fuel for hell; that is not equivalent. How do view that?
02:39		02:44		“To be honest I do not have an answer to that” [No answer?] “No answer to that.”
02:44		02:48		“This is a beautiful day, there are Muslim spiritual leaders…”
02:48		02:53		“…ask them, they will have a very nice answer to your question, which is wrong anyway.”
02:53		02:59		“The men, the clergy of Islam are inside, you will have all the opportunity.”
02:59		03:06		[We will wait for them] “Okay, Good luck with your mission.” [Thank you!]
03:06		03:14		“Sorry, I only speak Arabic.” [Only speaks Arabic, okay, but…. Muslim?] “Yes I am Muslim, alhamdullilah”
03:14		03:17		Mister Mayor (PvdA, Socialist) may we ask a short question? You are wearing a nice official chain with it.
03:18		03:22		Thank you for taking time, we are very curious, what did you think of this afternoon?
03:22		03:26		“I found it a very special and beautiful afternoon”.
03:26		03:30		Now we have the statement of the six faiths present here…
03:30		03:34		…that from their sources they all take the view of the equality of man, is that right?
03:34		03:38		“Yes, you can hardly say that more nicely, and I found it so beautiful that they all are so uh…”
03:38		03:42		“… positively oriented, not like we are better or different or something…”
03:43		03:48		But based on the sources, that fits nowhere, because the Quran divides mankind into two compartments…
03:48		03:52		…Muslims and non-Muslims, Muslims are good people, as clearly sated…
03:52		03:57		…and non-Muslims are monkeys, pigs, dhimmis, fuel for hell. That’s is what is stated in the sources.
03:57		04:01		“As fact I think that everyone sees it from his own perspective, I think is true…”
04:01		04:07		“…I myself grew up in Protestant circles, well about Catholics it was talked about in not very positive terms…”
04:07		04:12		“…and conversely ditto; and that wears with the years, but you must rely on your own power.”
04:12		04:16		No, I understand, I agree with you in the personal level, but the declaration states that…
04:16		04:23		…from the sources, that Islam also takes the view of the equality of all people, and you know that is not true, as I just explained you.
04:23		04:27		“Yes, but think it in fact is correct, however. Every religion, every belief…”
04:27		04:32		“…bases itself of its own convictions, of one’s own good.”
04:33		04:36		But mayor, that simply is not so in the Koran, you do know that, don’t you?
04:36		04:40		“I have never read the Quran from cover to cover”
04:40		04:45		Well I did and have five editions at home, and I can assure you, in various translations and also in the hadith…
04:45		04:49		…and in the life of Muhammad we expressly see the great distinction between Muslims and non-Muslims.
04:49		04:53		Muslims are seen as the good people, non-Muslims are as the sources specifically name:
04:53		04:57		dhimmis, monkeys, pigs, . If that is stated as such, and it is…
04:57		05:01		…we can not possibly state in a declaration as this afternoon…
05:01		05:05		…that all sources start from a basis of equality, for that is not true.
05:05		05:13		“Maybe on a nice day like this you should not try to find the differences, but the similarities…”
05:13		05:19		“…the people inside have done that, and we must do that outside too, we should be an example of that … You and me.”
05:19		05:24		May I ask a few questions about the meeting this afternoon, because you are the Army-Imam, are you?
05:24		05:28		“I am Army-Imam, and I wish you success and an enjoyable day, well organized, good day.”
05:28		05:32		But just do come here for a chat, we would appreciate that.
05:32		05:36
05:36		05:40		“I thought it was a very nice conversation, it’s fun and good to see…”
05:40		05:44		“…that one has different ideas, and you still can meet together and share that.”
05:44		05:48		Which Muslim group are you from?
05:48		05:54		“I am from the WIM, World Islamic Mission, and CMO, Muslim and Government Contact Body…”
05:56		06:00		“… so of the Hindustani, Surinam, Pakistani, and Indian community.”
06:00		06:04		What we now are very curious about, is the following:
06:04		06:10		The declaration, as lays the basis for this meeting, says that to the six religions that were together…
06:10		06:15		…for convenience we’ll also call Humanism a religion, the equality of all people is a central factor…
06:15		06:21		…that it also says so in the sources of the six religions, the equality of all people.
06:21		06:25		“Yes, in fact it is of course, every man is equal…”
06:25		06:30		“…but yes, uh, yes, a look here, that is indeed always asked…”
06:30		06:34		In Islam, there is no equality of all people…
06:34		06:38		…but a division of the world population into good and very bad.
06:38		06:43		“Yes, I know the Koran too little for that, but again …”
06:43		06:47		Did you read the Koran? [“No”]
06:47		06:51		Then you will certainly know if you know of the history of Hindu India,…
06:51		06:56		…that 40 to 80 millions Hindus have been massacred in the Jihad, when Muslims occupied India.
06:56		07:00		“I do not know that”
07:00		07:04		You do not know that, but those are historical facts. And we, right away…
07:04		07:08		…we are in the middle of the discussion, for here is a declaration signed…
07:08		07:14		…stating that all religions here, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, Humanism, and Islam, are based in the equality of man.
07:14		07:18		“Certainly, we endorse that, that is why we are here today.”
07:18		07:22		But the declaration says, based on ‘the sources’, and the sources are different…
07:22		07:26		…because in Islam, humanity is divided in two parts, Muslims and non-Muslims.
07:26		07:32		And then the Muslim are the good nation, and non-Muslims are monkeys, pigs, dhimmis.
07:32		07:36		“No, no, no. Who said that? That’s not in the Koran, that is, that is…”
07:36		07:40		Is it not in the Quran, that non-Muslims are dhimmis, apes and pigs?
07:40		07:44		“No, no, no. I want this discussion further to… ehh.”
07:44		07:48
07:48		07:52		“I do not want you to make pictures this way.”
07:52		07:56		Okay, but it would have been nice if you could correct that here, because if it is not in the sources,
07:56		08:00		then it is okay, but it is in the sources, that is the problem. [“No, it does say so.”]
08:00		08:04		It is in the sources, precisely as you say.
08:04		08:08		“No, no, not what I say, what you say”
08:08		08:12		In the Quran it says so, I can let you read it, unfortunately I don’t have it with me…
08:08		08:12		…but well, that is just too bad.
08:16		08:20		We see there was no Muslim country than, and now there are sixty…
08:20		08:24		…with hundreds of millions deaths from the Jihad wars. And that all happened as a result of Jihad texts from the Koran.
08:27		08:31		So from that you see that Islam is not based on the equality of all people…
08:31		08:35		…but only once people have agreed to become Muslim.
08:35		08:39		“No, the war is…”
08:39		08:43		Come join in the conversation here.
08:43		08:48		“There is a very serious confusion between political issues and the texts…”
08:48		08:52		“…in your reference, a hate text…”
08:52		08:52		“…I find it, eh, no offense… disrespectful when we talk about the Koran and profile it as being hateful.”
09:03		09:08		What I the would like is that you compare the sources, so we have the Bible here and the Koran there…
09:08		09:13		…and we read together and you may ask me questions about the Bible, fine, I can answer that,
09:13		09:18		and I ask questions about the Koran and expect you to answer that as Muslim. That is what I ask you.
09:18		09:22		“That is a respectable expectation, I have no problems with that.”
09:22		09:29		From this speaker the very same evening we received an email asking us “in no way to use any images and audio material of me or publish it”
09:27		09:31		Muslims who want to tell more are welcome at www.tora-yeshua.nl.
09: 31		09:39		Her Majesty leaves. The press called the meeting “successful” and “very beautiful”.