A couple of weeks ago I posted
a report by our German correspondent Furor Teutonicus about a German conservative movement known as Pro-Deutschland. Furor Teutonicus has translated and summarized some additional material about Pro-Deutschland for Gates of Vienna:
Because of its past Germany probably suffers more today from the “liberal curse” than many other countries. Basically anything further “right-wing” than Mother Theresa or Mahatma Hindi can and doesget labeled “extreme right-wing”, both in the press and at the local pub.
There exists no party between one that describes itself as “die Mitte” (C.D.U/C.S.U) and the N.P.D, or the infamous “neo-Nazis” beloved of the anti-German Western press.
Or rather, that was the case.
Now we have a grassroots party that, although various interest groups try to say otherwise, is a sensible alternative to the extremes seen in the “news”.
I have translated as best I can the main points of their party programme. I apologize for the “wooden” script, but German does not always translate as well as would be desirable in a perfect world. I also apologize if I have misread any part, but I am 99.9% sure I have not.
Pro-Deutschland is a right-wing/Conservative group that stand for the traditions and culture of Germany and the German people. They are not against anyone, and merely wish to correct the imbalance that favors non-German culture and ideas, that here, as in the rest of Europe, are supported by our politicians.
In their own words:
- - - - - - - - -
Die Bürgerbewegung Pro-Deutschland versteht sich als politische Vereinigung von Menschen, die den abendländischen Charakter Deutschlands bewahren wollen. Sie bekennt sich zu den Werten der freiheitlich-demokratischen Grundordnung des Grundgesetzes der Bundesrepublik Deutschland.
The citizens movement Pro-Deutschland constitutes itself as a political association of people who wish to preserve the traditional Northern European character of Germany. They bind themselves to a democratic ideal, and the constitutional laws of the republic of Germany.
Which means a total adherence to the rules regarding democracy, freedom of thought, free speech, etc.
They are also supporters of Germany as “a social state”. That is not the same as “socialist”. A social state is one that follows in the footsteps of Bismarck, and looks after its poor, unemployed, sick, and disabled.
Pro-Deutschland stands against the export of jobs, and for a fair wage for work within Germany, and supports the employers in their enterprise.
They support the traditional view of the family unit, and fight for a sufficiency of child-care centers, and for the improvement in the situation of families so that they are able to work and keep the family unit as the center.
In the field of justice, they say:
Polizei und Justiz müssen im Umgang mit Kriminellen endlich die Samthandschuhe ausziehen. Dafür brauchen sie Rückhalt aus der Politik. Die Bürgerbewegung Pro-Deutschland fordert: Opferschutz vor Täterschutz!
The police and the justice system must, when dealing with criminals, take off the velvet gloves. The justice system needs support from the political system in order to do this.
Pro-Deutschland stands for the rights of the victim before those of the criminal, and stands for a stricter sentencing programme for all offenders, particularly sex offenders.
The movement is totally against any sort of extremism, and it will not be tolerated within their ranks.
As far as jobs go, Pro-Deutschland stand for more training within the population, rather than the importation of workers, and therefore the loss of German jobs.
Foreigners are welcome, but they must respect the culture, traditions and laws of the country and learn the language.
Any that refuse or are incapable of this are not welcome. Any foreigner found guilty of a crime must, after serving his sentence, be immediately deported.
Pro-Deutschland is against the abuse of political power, and fights for the freedom of the people from the abuse of political power, and campaigns for an open and transparent government system.
They are prepared, to put candidates forward for Government at National and local level.
Pro-Deutschland is against the idea of “Multiculturalism” or “Multi-Kulti” as it is known in Germany. They realise, along with many others, that it just DOES not work.
They protest strongly against the “Islamisation” of Germany. They run campaigns against the building of mosques in many German cities.
In the Landesverfassungbericht Hamburg (Constitution report for Hamburg) Pro-Deutschland were described as “extreme right wing”. However, after taking it to the constitutional court, this label was withdrawn.
— Furor Teutonicus
22 comments:
As I have pointed out countless times, there ARE NO "conservatives" in Germany. Never were, are not, never will be. To quote myself:
WHAT we have are brown-painted Socialists, Sacred-Heart Socialists, green-over-brown-painted Socialists, Communists and a tiny, hapless "liberal" party that used to be a receptacle for old Nazis after '45 and which has ousted itself from serious politics by their self-consciously cultivated image of a "fun party".
The staple of all of them is the hatred of America and Jews, which the not-brown-painted ilk insist to call "anti-Zionism" because they are such despicable hypocrites.
The quote can be found here, but basically, that's what my blog Roncesvalles is all about. I am not complaining about a lack of readership, but obviously, it's either still not enough or the reading of compehension skills are lacking.
The Bürgerbewegungen (civil movements) under the "Pro" label are heavily weighed down by Neo- and old Nazis. One of the main backers of Pro Köln, vanguard of the "Pro" movement (by the way, I wish you wouldn't translate proper names like "Pro Deutschland"), is Günther Kissel, an old Nazi and wealthy muckshifter, who built the megalomaniac mosque in Duisburg. Pecunia muselmaniae non olet. That is not the only (Neo-)Nazi-connection, by the way. The common staple between left, right and center is hatred of Israel, the Über-Jew and America, the surrogate Jew.
I performed a brief Google search and lo and behold, one of the local "Pro"-branches celebrates Gerard Menuhin, one of those Jews who are always gladly taken into the Nazi-fold and who, I hope, does not need an introduction here.
I don't have the time (and, frankly, not the inclination, go and get some education yourselves) to dig deeper into this, but what do you think you'll find if a one-minute Google search for "Pro Deutschland" with no other search parameter delivered that?
If your "correspondent" is an American living in Germany, he is probably just a run-of-the-mill naive American. If he is German, I better refrain from saying what I think he is, so as not to sharpen the tone even more.
Vlaams Belang is fine, Partij voor de Vrijheid is fine, even BNP is able to learn. I repeat: You WILL NOT find anything like that in Germany. If THAT is Germany's future, God help us!
Mind you, I am NOT saying that those "movements" are NOT attracting quite a few wellmeaning, decent citizens who are just desperate because the mainstream parties are exposing them helplessly to the Islamic threat.
KERRRR-IST! Here are Europeans, even Germans, labouring to do America justice, reading, talking, thinking, learning about your country. Why do Americans think they can get away with just grafting their home-made preconceptions on the infinitely more complex European circumstances.
That was supposed to mean: "or comprehension skills".
Sorry!
Thank you for proving my point that any one further right wing than Ghandi or Mother Theresa gets "nazi" screamed at them.
If he is German, I better refrain from saying what I think he is, so as not to sharpen the tone even more.
Ja, bin ich, please feel free. I have not had any one in court for a few weeks now.
What people did in the past is not relevant, it is what they do now, and if any of those on your proscribed list start their antics within pro-Deutschland, you can be rest assured, they will be out faster than you can say the word.
May I also point out to readers that CAN read, the last sentence in my post; The Hamburg constitutional court have declared that the "pro- movement" (Ie Pro - NRW, Pro - Deutshland, etc, are NOT extreem right wing (ie "neo-nazi)"
Furor Teutonicus.
For the record, Pro Köln has a judgement stating that calling them 'Nazis' constitutes libel and is punishable by a €450 (I believe) fine.
It's a messy situation in Germany, though. Fear of the Nazi past holds back public debate and actually strengthens neo-Nazis :(
Fear of being called a nazi also helps the Islamists, because people are dubious about opposing them.
Furore,
"What people did in the past is not relevant, it is what they do now"
Instead of this empty formula - Floskel - you should immediately find out about G.Kissel.
The Editrix accusation does not say Kissel simply joined the movement, it says Kissel brought the finances. That means he might have a disproportionate role in the movement.
We should not be scared of finding out more: we want to do a clean job. I can understand we are growing impatient, but not that impatient to make mistakes.
In short - we are not for sale.
Those with money must be always under scrutiny - otherwise we are not equal.
Editrix:
"As I have pointed out countless times, there ARE NO "conservatives" in Germany. Never were, are not, never will be."
Snouck:
So you have countless times made a categoral statement that Germans are into enternity unable to form a viable Conservative or Pro-German movement which is part of the greater family of Western nations.
You motivate this by pointing towards the Nazi-era co-operation between NS and Arab Leaders against the Jews and others (Serbs). And the ongoing co-operation between the German Left and annialist Islam (Iran and the Palestinians).
You further motivate your POV by the Germans never having been occupied and reformed by the Romans.
("The relative absence of the mellowing, civilisatory Roman influence serves here to explain a cruel and ruthless streak in the Germans that seems to be absent, or not so prevalent, in other European people.")
First please tell me how does this Roman monopoly on a nations' soundness works?
The Romans were a relatively civilized force in their time. They still were annialationist in their treatment of enemies, putting men, women and children to the sword with careless abandon. This fate befell ancient Israel. Two times (70 and 135 AD).
The Germans on the other hand had a fairly mellow reputation as a friendly and pastoral people as evidenced for instance by Edward Gibbons in the "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire".
A reputation that goes back perhaps 2.500 years.
The Germans ruined that reputation in the Twentieth Century. To be precise in the period 1933 - 1945. That is 12 years of history, a scope that is even narrower than the Quran's.
Secondly, the many examples that you show of Leftist Jew and Israel hatred are not German-specific. A similar pattern can be observed in ANY Western country. Therefore it does not prove the unredeemably Anti-Western character of the German nation.
I would like to state that it IS possible for the German Nation to run on a pro-Western Course.
Twenty years ago there was no Pro-Western movement in the UK, the Netherlands or Denmark either and the only ones standing up to Mass-immigration and Islamisation were those marinated in the brown sauce.
This situation has been corrected either by new Parties without Brown roots (Netherlands and Denmark) or Parties with suspect beginnings gradually distancing themselves from suspect roots and cleaning up (UK).
Oh and neither Denmark nor the dominant North of the Netherlands was ever occupied by the Romans and taught by them.
There is no categoral reason why a German political movement could not lead the German Nation to a Pro-Western (including Pro-Israel) stance. Either by forming a clean roots party or by a dirty party that cleans up as it broadens its base of support. Pro-Deutschland may be either.
Anti-Jihadists have got nothing to lose and Germany to win when we keep this possibility of their and our national redemption open.
Kind regards,
Snouck
Welcome to the clubhouse, Furor. I couldn't help noticing that there weren't any Germans among us, or if there were, they didn't identify themselves.
I remember reading somewhere that the German Supreme Court ruled recently that it was ok for some skinhead to call the national flag "mustard". This hardly seems dangerous language to me; evidently in Germany you really have to watch your tongue closely. Maybe we outsiders can help a little here by laughing to scorn the inquisitors who find Nazis hiding under mustard bottles.
Perhaps you know something about this one? If I'm not mistaken towards the end of the DDR Martin Luther and Frederick the Great were declared national heroes by the Party. It must have taken some ingenious circle-squaring to turn them into good Communists, but I wonder if the old ghouls who ran the DDR weren't the better national psychologists. Healthy countries honor their past and their heroes; sick ones let in the moslems.
All this is a long-winded way to wish good luck to you and Pro-Deutschland.
eatyourbeans said...
Welcome to the clubhouse, Furor. If I'm not mistaken towards the end of the DDR Martin Luther and Frederick the Great were declared national heroes by the Party.
Thank you.
A few things to answer.
I am, for a hobby, an historical re-enactor, from the "Napoleonic" age. The "old" East (DDR) are MUCH better taught regarding this than the West. The school kids actualy KNOW who von Blücher was!
This is because the fight against Napoleon was portraid by the Communists as a "fight against imperialism". Because it was the first "modern" war that recruited "workers" to fight the "Imperialist oppresor". They forgot to mention that the volunteers volunteered because of a QUEEN asking them to!. :-)
But that is the short story.
Furor Teutonicus.
All note in the ex. given by Furor
how communists and muslims faced the same terrible lack of precomm. and premusl. heroes. Is it not funny?
In Czechoslovakia they invented "Hussite revolutionary movement".
Editrix, I am under the impression that those Pro movements rise up independantly. Is there any way to compare them?
The ex. given by you was really fossile...but also insignificant, I have never heard of Huembergia or what was the name again?
Czechmade said...
All note in the ex. given by Furor
how communists and muslims faced the same terrible lack of precomm. and premusl. heroes. Is it not funny?
WHAT?
Furor Teutonicus
1. step - violent grab for power by smth. declared as absolutely unic/unprecended
2. step - claiming a long pedigree - everybody strived in their islamic/communist direction in the past - consolidation of power.
3. step - lenghty degeneration - painful contradiction of their claims.
The Mother Teresa/Ghandi comment is on point. I have some friends that live in Hamburg and when i told them I was pro-Israel anti-Islam they gave me the liberal left Gaza propaganda. So I sent them the following as quoted by Friedrich Gustav Emil Martin Niemoller because it is appropriate for the threat Germany and the West face from Islam (just replace nazi with Islam):
• Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Kommunist.
Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.
Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,
habe ich nicht protestiert;
ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.
Als sie die Juden holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Jude.
Als sie mich holten,
gab es keinen mehr, der protestierte.
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
I must say I agree with Editrix. My contact with Germans is limited to various comments on the Internet, but they seem to fall into 3 categories:
1) Apolitical, avoids all dangerous topics;
2)Left-wing/progressive;
3)All those other countries in EU are stealing from Germany; Germans are most productive people in the world, but they are victims of all the rest, etc.
Take for example this book:
http://www.amazon.de/zweite-Drei%C3%9Figj%C3%A4hrige-Krieg-Gerd-Schultze-Rhonhof/dp/3937163972
I stopped listening to it just at beginning, when it was claimed that Germany build its fleet before the First World War in order to protect the fisheries.
It was purely defensive, seriously.
Furor Teutonicus --
Gates of Vienna's rules about comments require that they be civil, temperate, on-topic, and show decorum. Your comment violated the last of these rules. We keep a PG-13 blog, and exclude foul language, explicit descriptions, and epithets. This is why I deleted your comment.
Use of asterisks is an appropriate alternative.
----------------------
Furor Teutonicus said...
I see. So from the general gist of some of the posts, YOU will fight islam, but Germany can f**k off because "they bombed our chippy".
Do I get that right?
Furor Teutonicus.
Apologies.
Furor Teutonicus.
Germans should consider why they lost the First World War. They were objectively in a perfect position to win and gain hegemony over Europe. But despite their military, industrial, scientific and geographic superiority they managed to lose. They could defeat their enemies in detail in 1905, but they waited too long, then managed to antagonize England and USA.
I would say that the main causes of that defeat were firstly the state&nation-worship and secondly provincialism; Wilhelm II could be considered to be their embodiment.
The worship of State, together with the nationalism and Social Darwinism, persuaded Germans that morality is not applicable to states; the state can do with clean conscience anything that advances its interests. Of course, other Great Powers were hardly innocents; but they understood what is morality good enough to at least pretend to be moral. Germany specialized in openly and proudly promising and prosecuting a policy of premeditated brutality, and then acting surprised and offended when the enemy propaganda used it to paint them as cannibal monsters.
As to provinciality: it seems that before Hitler nobody in Germany understood that they are fighting for the unification of Europe. European unity of one kind or another was and is necessary. For that reason the only way for the Germany to avoid war would be a preemptive surrender to the England&France; that is acceptance of their superior role in Europe and the gradual introduction of their political and social system.
The only possibly effect of the German victory would be their hegemony in the unified Europe; and if they refused to do it (like England and France did after the WWI) the second round of fighting. But they never understood the necessity for the really unified Europe; at most, they imagined an enlarged Germany. In addition, xenophoby and the German specialty: the mixed victim and superiority complexes make it difficult for them to gain allies and protectorates.
Compare and contrast this with Americans: despite their faults, the whole West has de facto accepted subjection to them. Some people like to grumble, but no-one serious is trying to lead an independent politic; at most such countries as Germany or France try to influence American politics, or to increase their own influence in the American state-system.
EXACTLY.
I mention Germany and all I get is the "blame fest"
We are talking of TODAY and NOW NOT WWI.
And you wonder why we HATE the Brits and Yanks?
Furor Teutonicus
Victim complex at work? Poor innocent Germany persecuted by perfidious "Brits and Yanks"? Grow up.
Germany (like most European countries) seems bent on committing suicide. For that reason the movements working to stop that suicide are to be desired - but only if they are effective.
It is very easy to canalize the popular discontent into ridiculous, "populist" radical parties, and subsequently to discredit both those parties and the popular feeling embodied by them.
In case of Germany, various "right wing" movements have an unfortunate tendency to the same faults which doomed Germany to defeat in the World Wars.
Any movement which gains any importance will be met with furious propaganda assault; and if it commit that kind of errors, it will go down - hard.
THAT is EXACTLY my point thank you for making it so admirably.
We SHOULD be fighting the islamisation of Europe, but as SOON as Germany is mentioned it's "HEY!! LETS BASH THE KAUT SCUM, BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL A SHOWER OF EX OR WANNABEE NAZIS ANYWAY!!"
Shows who YOU think the "real enemy" is, doesn't it.
In case of Germany, various "right wing" movements have an unfortunate tendency to the same faults which doomed Germany to defeat in the World Wars. WHAT faults? Name ONE party that have recently gassed 6,000,000 Jews.
Quite frankly as far as German politics go YOU and MOST of the others here have no CLUE.
Now, do you think there is any danger of getting bacjk to fighting the common enemy instead of "bashing the damn Bosche"?
Furor Teutonicus.
What faults? Read my previous post: belief that any action in the name of state is acceptable, xenophobia, provincialism, lack of foresight, and the twin complexes of superiority and victimhood.
You demonstrate them beautifully, with your view that any critism of Germany means: "HEY!! LETS BASH THE KAUT SCUM, BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL A SHOWER OF EX OR WANNABEE NAZIS ANYWAY!!"
I am afraid that your "fight against the common(?) enemy" will be limited to ranting on random blogs if you don't manage to rise over such views.
You say:
"Quite frankly as far as German politics go YOU and MOST of the others here have no CLUE."
Obviously so. You are a German, enlighten us.
"Shows who YOU think the "real enemy" is, doesn't it."
Certainly not the Neonazis - an obsolete, nostalgic movement in a senescent nation. German pensioners won't invade anyone, except Majorca.
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