Tuesday, January 27, 2009

Whose Mother? Whose Tongue?

As you read this article from Elsevier (as translated by VH), bear in mind that Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has publicly stated his belief that ethnic Turkish children in German schools should be taught in their “mother tongue”:

Turks in Germany are the least well integrated

Of all the foreign population groups in Germany, the worst integrated are the Turks. Of the 2.8 million people in Germany with a Turkish background, 30 percent have no school diploma at all.

This is shown by a study published on Monday, which is based on data for 2005. The German authorities are calling the results “dramatic”.

Germany has 82 million inhabitants. The Turks represent 3.4 percent of the total population.

Highest level

Only 14 percent of Turks obtained a diploma at the highest high school level (college). Of the native German population more than double that percentage have that diploma in their pockets.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel sees the results of this research as a motivation to expand the integration process further.
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Best results

Foreigners who obtain the best results in Germany are immigrants from other EU countries, the descendants of German settlers from Eastern Europe and migrants from Asian countries.

A note from VH:

A year ago Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan said while on a visit in Germany: “In Germany, it should be possible for high schools to be set up where the teaching is in Turkish,” and added also to be in favor of the idea of Turkish-language universities in Germany. “For immigrants to speak better German,” Erdogan explained, “They have to be able to speak their own mother tongue first.” He said that Turkish teachers and schools could help them along: “The German government should have no problem with that; whatever needs to be done for integration, should be done.”

The Islamist Erdogan is notorious for stating: “The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets, and the faithful our soldiers…”

11 comments:

Eema to 3 said...

Are the 2nd or 3rd generation Turks living in Germany granted German citizenship? I think at one time they were sort of stateless, without the rights of either German or Turkish citizenship.

Czechmade said...

Never stateless. Their integration became a problem esp. after creating their own Turkish organization, often claiming to be "cultural" or "German-Turkish" with special undeclared focus on islam.

Studying German commentators the best contrast is pointing out to Vietnamese immigrants - born abroad, with much diverse cultural/linguistic background, no qualification - and their kids are excellent in education. The "dumb" parents do everything to make their kids shine. So it is possible via hardships with no state involved. By the way various hardships are the best way to integrate - learning with every porus of your body exposed to the local culture.

Never spend one penny on people who are not willing. Give them Vietnamese as model for free: swallow your vain pride.

Afonso Henriques said...

"Only 14 percent of Turks obtained a diploma at the highest high school level (college). Of the native German population more than double that percentage have that diploma in their pockets."

14%!!!!! I think the College means "Superior Education", right? Harvard, Yale and stuff...

Well, here 22% of the National Population have it. Concerning the ethnic minotrities, I doubt one percent of the gypsies and Africans have that;
I doubt more than 5% of Brasilians and even Chinese have it.

The only ones who trnscend those 22% National percent are the Immigrants from Eastern Europe (while those from the First World may have between 20-25%) and as such I am shocked with those 14% because they are too high.

thll said...

The bare-faced cheek of these people knows no bounds. Meaningful communication is impossible with them - and the sooner we realise this the better. They will ask for the clothes off our backs and believe they have every entitlement to them and criticise us for not offering them freely. We should have nothing to do with these people.

The Venerable 1st Earl of Cromer said...

When I taught in Germany, several of my classes were majority Turkish.

Some were 3rd generation but still had accents and only the most basic command of German. A teacher there explained to me that in most families, only the father has a grasp of German, for tax returns and other dealings with the authorities. But the women, who stay home in a kind of 'Purdah', speak Turkish/Kurdish/Arabic with the kids, so by the time they go to nursery they're already at a disadvantage. When you go to a Turkish area, you see the same thing you do in a Pakistani area here in Britain - Islamic cultural centres and a sea of satellite dishes. Mentally, they never leave.

The part that confused me most was the number of recent immigrants though - you would have assumed the massive problems so far would have tipped the German government off.

But no. Most of them treated school like a joke or a kind of holding pen. They knew it didn't matter, the state will keep them either way, probably better than they're accustomed to.

They had no respect for authority or knowledge, or for the idea that anyone who tried could have a better future than prison or collecting plastic bottles from the railway station. With a few notable exceptions, they were perpetual victims.

The Venerable 1st Earl of Cromer said...

Eema to 3:
Most have dual citizenship. They go on and on about their Turkish blood, but those that do regularly return to see relatives know they don't really fit in there, and a few know the secret - they wouldn't actually want to. They will be the successful ones.

What is "Occupation" said...

Germany should start a fund asap

This fund should provide free passage to Turkey as well as a lump sum pay out for the renouncement of their German citizenship.

Germany as well as others in Europe are being played by their actual guilt of their treatment of the Jews to transfer this bad behavior legacy on to the Moslem immigrants..

The Turkish, Arab and North African Islamic peoples that have filled the vacuum left by the destruction of the Jewish people in a sick why have fulfilled a karma like cycle...

Czechmade said...

The Turks in Germany are "Turks" as you want to see them, but also Kurds (more PKK) and Alavites (!!!). Even some Christians...

Start working with them stressing more their differences in the sense of Hugh Fitzgerald, be sometimes more benign/flexible.

You could go much deeper knowing that under Turkish names all possible ethnics are hiding - Cherkez, Ossetians, Islamoslavs... our evil friend Erdogan is islamoGeorgian!! Find out what he has to say in Georgian papers...it might be funny...not like..."Integration in Germany is a crime against humanity" stuff.

joeblough said...

Are the Turks European?

Hmmm ... is it Constantinople or Istanbul?

heroyalwhyness said...

OT but related:

in England . . .

There are now ten schools where NO pupils speak English as a first language

Check to see if your school is one where more than 70% of pupils have another first language

Profitsbeard said...

Allah uber alles!