Tuesday, December 09, 2008

An Interview With Muhammed

Today Ehsan Jami, the Dutch apostate from Islam released his movie An Interview With Muhammed:


An excerpt:

Muhammed: “My uncle used to tell me great stories about a man named Jesus and his eleven… eh… warriors, or something. I really wanted to be like him, and I think I lived up to the expectations. I met him; we are actually good friends. We hang out a lot together, we play poker sometimes, we both cheat a bit and have a laugh about it afterwards. We don’t play for money, of course.”

Even before the film was screened, the trouble began. According to Elsevier, as translated by our Flemish correspondent VH:

Jami Film: Embassy in Kabul now already spreads panic

Before even anyone has even seen the Ehsan Jami’s film, measures are being taken. The Dutch embassy in Kabul, the capital of Afghanistan, says “to be alert” [and still has the Fitna warning on its opening page — VH]

[…]

Security

Until yesterday evening, the NCTb and the AIVD have consulted together and made a risk analysis. Under guard, Jami may show his English-language film in Nieuwspoort.

The possibility that the film will cause fierce reactions cannot be excluded, the embassy writes in a letter [to Dutch citizens in Afghanistan]. The diplomatic representation urges citizens to track closely the developments concerning the film in the Netherlands, Afghanistan and elsewhere in the world.

Until now, the announcement of the film has not caused comments in Afghanistan or the Afghan media, the embassy said.

Also from VH:
- - - - - - - - -
This is my translation of the first critique of the film, by the esteemed professor Afshin Ellian (who previewed the film or maybe even advised Jami while he worked on it together with a few friendly artists).

To be complete I added links at almost all the positions that Ellian added links to articles, and tried to find similar English language versions.

I will keep a sharp eye out for more information. The press conference by Jami will be in The Hague today at 15:30 local time.

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Resentful Muslims: bow deep before Jami’s film!

By Afshin Ellian*

Mohammad: Every historical character has been burdened with difficult facts and standards. Facts are not rewritable, standards however can be.
Ehsan Jami: But in your history it is hard to separate the facts and standards.
Mohammad: Yes, that is my tragedy: I am the author, player and also the witness of my own drama..
Ehsan Jami: Whose drama is more tragic? Yours or the tragic situation in which millions of Muslims have come? In this tragedy you are the director. But the players played on after you retired.
Mohammad: True. But I never completely left the scene. Let us start, and leave therefore the Rasul Allah [the prophet of God] and release people of what I was and of what I never want to be anymore. This is what you call emancipation. Or am I getting too complicated?

Critical dialogue

In all peace, he has been working quietly for months on his film. Even before Geert Wilders wanted to make a film, he was planning a short film about the Prophet Mohammed. I was allowed to see it. Though I am not allowed to tell here in detail about the dialogues in the film “An interview with Mohammad.”

Yes, finally after more than 1,400 years a Muslim interviews the prophet Mohammed. And this is unique in the history of Islam. This has not in any way ever happened before.

In this movie Jami shows how he has really grown in the meantime. The dialogue between him as interviewer and the prophet Muhammad is a mature, critical conversation. This is the first interview the Prophet Mohammed gives in a critical medium.

A former religious partner asks him, after nearly 1,400 years, to look at himself as a historical figure. Or rather how the prophet Mohammed would judge his own acts and statements in the year 2008.

Intellectual

This is very intelligent. Moreover, this is exactly what reform-minded Muslims do: they want to see Prophet Mohammed as a historical figure and place him in the context of our history.

The artists who helped Jami in making this movie just wanted to make a movie that was in no way similar to any previous movies about Islam.

Therefore it lacks background music. That makes it sober, but at the same time this gives a particularly intellectual aspect. Because of that, the emphasis is on the dialogue. That is what we all want for sure: a critical and non-violent dialogue in the Islamic world.

But unintentionally the writer (Jami) and the makers of the film place themselves in the same way as the world of Islam: the world of words but no music. Is that a disadvantage? No, because all the background music may seem somewhat demagogic. And that is what they certainly did not want.

Unfriendly and cynical

At the same time, Jami shows again that he comes from an Islamic culture. And this is an effective weapon for unleashing a debate in the Muslim world. This debate will probably not take place in the spotlight, but it will take place in the minds of thousands of young Muslims.

And this was exactly the intent of the makers of the film. It is truly an interview with Prophet Mohammed, as would have been done by NOVA. Unfortunately, I am not allowed today to get into other details here of the dialogues — somewhere Muhammed even gets the chance to defend himself.

What also struck me is the friendly attitude of Jami, the interviewer, towards the Prophet Mohammed. Because we could expect that once Jami — the threatened, abused ex-Muslim — would sit down opposite a masked Mohammed, he automatically would become unfriendly and cynical. Because the enemy, with or without a mask, in the real or imaginary theater of life, still remains the enemy..

Anger

A victim of the Taliban will hate the Taliban under all circumstances. Even when a few actors would play the role of the Taliban. Because Jami handles Mohammed so kindly, unwittingly a mystical relationship comes into existence with the masked prophet Muhammad.

He seemingly is not going to eradicate the Prophet Mohammed. Ehsan, the ex-Muslim who raised the anger of the Islamists and European leftists on him, just want to see reborn a softer, more forgiving, critical Mohammed.

This all is that Jami wants, even when he does not believe in him any more. It is touching. The resentful fundamentalists should not threaten Jami nor our country. They should bow deep to this genuine and almost religious call from an ex-Muslim.

Not the political polemics, but ultimately the power of art (and artists) was able to bring out Jami’s innocent desire for freedom and humanity from concealment. I have great respect for the artists who have helped Jami.

Freedom Struggle

This is why I want to pay tribute here to the courage and wisdom of the artists who have made this movie. Many unfortunately have a big mouth in terms of freedom, but when it comes down to the line, they are not prepared, not even in secrecy, to support the fight for freedom, nor to promote it.

Interview with Muhammad is a simple, yet profound and significant film. Unfortunately though, it is also a problematic film. We have been reading all the messages of news programs that have retraced their earlier promises. They were not prepared to be the first to report about this movie. They do not want to be endangered nor threatened.

Courage?

What for we commemorate May 4 [victims of WWII] and May 5 [liberation day, surrender of the Germans in WWII]?* Do we want to stimulate civil courage on those days? What courage? Some people and some institutions simply do not have any.

How can we promote civil courage in people who do not have any courage? Maybe perhaps those are the same people who admire the courage of journalists and intellectuals in junta led countries such as Chile under Pinochet. But themselves, oh no, that goes too far.

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Note:

* Ellian links here to the article: “Anger about May 5 debate of Pechtold with anti-Semite; Wednesday, May 3, 2006: The Jewish community has reacted furiously to the intention of Minister for Administrative Renewal, Alexander Pechtold [D66, Democrats 66, liberal leftists] to enter a debate with the radical Muslim leader Abu Jahjah on Liberation Day…”

Afshin Ellian (1966) is professor of social cohesion, citizenship and multiculturalism at the University of Leiden, a poet and thinker. He has resided in the Netherlands since 1989. The esteemed professor Ellian “defends the ideals and freedoms of Western culture” daily in the Dutch opinion magazine Elsevier. Apart from this, he is also a mentor of Ehsan Jami and also convinced the Dutch Security Service to protect Jami since the latter was beaten up and threatened for openly criticizing Islam and defending apostasy.

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Also: here is an old interview with Ehsan Jami from The Hague/ Amsterdam/ Rotterdam Times by Lula Ahrens, just before he was kicked out the PvdA. It may contain some interesting stands and views of Jami.

PDF here.

Quotes:

“How sore is the subject of apostasy within the Dutch Muslim community?

“Very sore. That is obvious from the reactions I get; mosque leaders proclaim that I am an incestuous monster and a d**khead.

Also, I have received over three hundred e-mails from ex-Muslims. This is a gigantic problem. Muslims who renounce their religion lose their family and friends. Islam is not a religion, it is a sect. It doesn’t even let go of its followers.

I have read the most heart-breaking stories imaginable, for instance from an Iraqi guy who told me: ‘Ever since I left Islam, I have a major conflict with my parents, whom I haven’t seen for two years. I have lost all of my friends and family’. I know many people who have moved abroad because they couldn’t cope with life in The Netherlands, because their communities’ views are so strict. A girl wrote to me that she cries day and night because her parents don’t allow her to fall away from her belief and force her to wear a headscarf. That hurts. I have to admit that I am touched by stories like these.”

“I have an Islamic background, but fortunately I have had a liberal upbringing. My mother was converted to Christianity a few years ago. My father is still a Muslim, but not a practicing one. The rest of my family — grandfather, grandmother, nephews, nieces — are. After 11 September 2001 I studied the Koran, and reached the conclusion that I cannot identify with Islam. I then renounced my religion. And by the way, who cares whether I have been raised according to the Islam or not?”

“I have a tremendous amount of respect for Ayaan Hirsi Ali and her fight for women’s’ rights, but my approach is very different.

Other than her, I do want to start a dialogue with the Muslim community and visit mosques and Islamic schools. They should be preaching that Muslims are allowed to fall away from their belief, that girls can choose not to wear a head scarf.”

Will the integration and emancipation of Muslims be your main point of interest as member of the PvdA Board?

“No, of course not. I want the PvdA to be a party that all Duchy citizens are proud of. Not the party of Allah, just the PvdA (Labour Party).

Does that mean that according to you, the PvdA is currently a ‘party of Allah’?

“A little, yes. The PvdA has not formulated a clear stance with regard to the Armenian genocide, Ayaan Hirsi Ali and myself.”

What is your personal situation like at the moment; are you still studying science of public administration?

“No, I quit. The pressure became too much. I feel that it is unsafe to go to school. One third of the students there is of immigrant descent; I have been abused and intimidated several times already.”

28 comments:

Joanne said...

If Muslims were allowed to fall away from their religion without repercussions, it would give a new meaning to 'mass exodus'.

It is hard to believe that Muslim woman enjoy the treatment in Islam. I do not think western societies are doing Muslim women any favours by instilling Sharia Law in their communities or into the law books.

Robin Shadowes said...

"If Muslims were allowed to fall away from their religion without repercussions, it would give a new meaning to 'mass exodus'."

That is probably why Mad-dog Ahmadinejad wants to persecute apostates in Iran. Islam is a house built of cards, once people starts to leave it en masse, it will crumble to dust.

Afonso Henriques said...

Off topic: Iran creates super jet. Yeah right...

flabslab said...

Sorry, very off topic but...

Charles Johnson Finally Reveals his Fascist Soul.

See this, it's incredible. From todays LGF.

Nirth Certifikit Links Not Welcome
POLITICS | Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 3:39:56 pm PST

I’ve posted this several times, but it apparently isn’t being heard. So here it is again.

Any posted spinoff links that try to promote the “Obama birth certificate” nonsense will be deleted. If you insist on continuing to post such links, I’ll block your account.

Enough is more than enough.

Sure thing moonbat Charles. Nuff said, yo,framydr

Joanne said...

Charles Johnson must be 'The Other One', at least in his own mind.

flabslab said...

Yep, I'm now waiting to see If I can get this past the Pajamas Media censor.

How do you rate my chances.

Apparently, I'm awaiting "moderation"

Whatever that is. And who exactly gets to decide?

Just how many forms of deluded political correctness are there out there? The mind boggles.

flabslab said...

Wow! PJM posted it. He must be getting unpopular there too.

Now let's see if any illiterate vitriol gets posted.

I love a fight.

Conservative Swede said...

Flabslab,

Thanks for the updates. I'm interested in following both LGF and and the Obama birth certificate.

flabslab said...

Well, golly gosh, even some Lizardoids have noticed. Things are getting nasty. Check this response from "cycle clips Chas"
Charles
12/08/08 3:44:40 pm 23
re: #5 warnergt

"Sounds like censorship to me."

Mr oh so tolerant responds thus:

"That's because you don't understand the meaning of the word "censorship."

You do not have a right to post anything you like at LGF. Period. If that's not to your liking, go and post somewhere else."

Extraordinary stuff. Only the Great Lord Chazza gets to define "censorship".

I recommend this poster, warnergt, to take his advice.

After all, Hits = $, eh Chaz?

Conservative Swede said...

Flabslab,

Could you link that PJM story for us?

flabslab said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Baron Bodissey said...

flabslab --

Please don't paste long URLs into the comments; they make the post page too wide and mess up the appearance of the permalink page.

Use link tags; the instructions are at the top of the full post's comment section.

----------------------

flabslab said...

Conservative Swede

Here's the link.http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/illinois-governor-arrested-for-trying-to-sell-obama-senate-seat/#comment-167123

sorry it's long.

Furthermore, it's my story. The folks at Pajamas are not responding but LGF is one of their associates. This is not their story but at least they haven't yet censored me. Update, Yes they censored my last post; see above.

I've just had enough of the arrogant wimp Charles Johnson, having being accused of being a Fascist I am gunning for him. Never call a Brit a Fascist.

The original Charles J. post is here.

link

My post that started it is here.

flabslab said...
Off topic but relevant to Gates of Vienna.

You may find this interesting. My first post on LGF. The subject was supposed to be David Horrowitz' opposition to the Obama birth certificate controversy. For some reason they were discussing the rather dumb comedy Tropic Thunder. So here's my post which they deemed so offensive I was accused of being a euro-nazi...

"Tropic Thunder is infantile crap, which is unfortunate since its heart is in the right place.

Now let's get back to BHO's BC.

The question still remains.

If it's not his citenzenship that he's hiding. What is it? Is the listed religion embarrassing? Is it the name? Maybe he was adopted or maybe he was born a woman. Who effing knows and that's the point.

What's wrong with you, yo? You think you'll win the next election by being nice and fair. Dream on, they'll just trash you again using the same foul means.´

Wake up. This ain't no game, The future of the world is at stake not just your fragile sensibilities. Look, unfairness works. That's how this bunch of pathological liars just won.

And if you don't learn to hang tough you'll go on losing and we all (I'm not American) suffer.

I'm losing patience with you. Stop letting those of us who believe in democracy but are not lucky enough to live in America down. I don't dare tell you what my Lebanese cedar-revolutionary friends are saying about you but here's a clue. It's similar to what your South- Vietnamese allies said (those that survived).

Put your money where your mouth is or back off, Then at least we'll understand we're on our own and can come up with reasonable strategies that don't include you.

So what's it to be, Are you with us or with the the the enemies of Democracy. GWB, initially at least seemed to understand this.

At the moment those of us who believe in democracy don't trust you."

OK, I know, strong stuff but I don't like mincing words.

They, at LGF, went ballistic. Here's a sample

"re: #361 flabslab

That's the same lame argument that GoV ( meaning Gates of Vienna) and the others who are willing to ally with euro-nazi's use to try to convince us that we need to recognize them because of a common enemy. Since their use of it doesn't sway most of us here, your application of it is equally underwhelming.

If we become what we fight (same as the moonbat argument against opposing Islamic terror, notice) - where are we? I remain unconvinced that we have to resort to evil in order to defeat another evil" (so a opposing a conman is evil, huh?).

So, having clearly stated my commitment to democracy I'm apparently a Nazi because I doubt America's commitment.

At which point I informed Charles that I wished to be banned from his site which he did with amazing alacrity, thus;

"re: #421 flabslab

No problem. You're banned. But you don't get to post your dramatic, nasty farewell comment, sorry."

Check the "sorry" how fake can you get? I asked him to ban me and I admit I used one word that ensured he would. It rhymes with infantile "bankers"

Clearly, esconsed as they are in their Californian disneyland, these guys have completely lost it. They don't even understand they've been conned.

I now understand the argument between your sites and blame LGF, not only for the breakdown but also for the smears levelled against you. The folks at LGF are narrow minded bigots of a similar kind to the Obamatons and will probably soon number amongst his most fervent supporters.

Sorry for being off topic but since you were specifically named, without me mentioning you, I felt you should know.

Baron Bodissey said...

Flabslab --

This thread is not about Charles Johnson. I don't want this blog to turn into another LGF-monitoring site. There are at least 3 sites that are entirely devoted to observing Charles Johnson, and you can always go over to one of them to post about him.

Or, you can use the news feed here for miscellaneous topics; it's appropriate for that. Consider the news feed to be an "open thread" post.

Now let's return this thread to the topic at hand. Ehsan Jami's movie is actually much more significant than anything Charles Johnson will ever do or say.

flabslab said...

Point taken.

I'll continue on my own then

Keep up the good work but I don't usually post where I agree with the site. Where's the fun? And I already know everything I need to about Mo, and am bored with him.

I do think that LGF banning any discussion of the OBH BC is relevant, especially as they see it as an excuse to smear you as a Fascist when it is clearly they who fit the bill.

Ciao.

Baron Bodissey said...

flabslab --

I appreciate your solidarity with us.

Why do you object to moving your discussion to the news feed thread? Is that a less desirable place than this?

As you know, I don't censor commenters here. But I do ask them to stay on-topic as much as possible.

I waited through eleven off-topic comments before I even broached the idea of moving the dicussion to an open-thread post.

Is this too stringent a requirement?

flabslab said...

Sorry I didn't mean to sound like I was objecting. Rather that I was happy to move the debate to more hostile sites.

Love your blog.

Really best wishes and hope to be able to post on topic soon.

Arius said...

Ehsan Jami's film used a format that I didn't expect; very creative and unique. A violent Muslim reaction to the film says a lot about their retrograde attitudes. There will never be peace between Muslims and the rest of civilized humanity until they have no reaction to this and other films like it.

Conservative Swede said...

Flabslab,

Rather that I was happy to move the debate to more hostile sites.

Surely there's quite a lot of hostility in the comments section of this site. Even among people who agree about Islam and LGF, there are issues that create violent confrontations involving outright hostility (I'm not going to mention the R-word since the Baron wish for this thread not to go more off-topic).

So here you can both eat the cake and keep it: both a site that you love and a hostile environment at the same time.

Henrik R Clausen said...

This is, indeed, a very nice movie. Understated and well-documented, it makes so many points devastating to Islam that the main issue becomes how to make it be seen by as many as possible.

The hadith selections are great, selected to point out the most embarrassing aspects of fundamentalist Islam. And I applaud the wisdom of going for the hadith instead of the quran.

Sure, I could have wished for more - like the battles of Badr, Mutah, the Satanic Verses etc., but I'd be hard pressed suggesting which ones to take out to make space.

Czechmade said...

The movie is overtly respectfull, the irony is regularly maintained on a level which forces the muslim mind to stick to the details.

The person interviewed is handled as an aging celebrity not expecting to accomplish anything more - taking himself at distance - for the sole reason to be already a part of a celebrity pantheon. Our celebrity achieved (as usual) the point of saturation and shows roayal quality of distancing from himself. The ants on the ground are not expected to follow him without reservations and can "relax" a bit.

Is it also irony or a certain tactic? See the Persian mind operating on different levels. After a while I have to see it again. The Persians can handle the muslims one day with much more expertise than we can do. We should be able to create propre background for them, more focus. Let them work.

USpace said...

.
This is a great film, it personalizes Mohammad and shows him as someone who has evolved beyond his violent life and ideology to a somewhat more 'secular' attitude.

I pray Mr. Jami will be safe, this will p-off some at least I believe. But I suppose he figures it can't get any more dangerous for him than it already is, and maybe it will even get a little better.

Citizen Warrior has a good piece today about coming up with a better and more accurate label for us Infidels to use than
'moderate Muslims'.
The Search For The Moderate Muslim

I think 'Secular Muslims' might be good for us non-Muslims.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular

"Approximate antonyms for secular are religious and devout."

This will undoubtedly bother some Muslims, but it's a good way in a simple 'label' to continually remind Infidels where the difference lies.
.
absurd thought -
God of the Universe
HATES secular humans

rejecting what is backwards
in religions that they love

.
absurd thought –
God of the Universe says
Earth is a terrible place

but it is still the best
planet in the Universe

.
All real freedom starts with freedom of speech. Without freedom of speech there can be no real freedom.
.
Philosophy of Liberty Cartoon
.
Help Halt Terrorism Today!
.
USpace

:)
.

Robin Shadowes said...

I fear that this video being appreciated among kafirs will be reason enough for the jihadists to be hostile towards the maker of the film, no-matter how sensible and non-insulting to islam it is compared to Fitna or the motoons. It's just the way their minds work. Just look at the new book by Hedegaard and Westergaard. The islamists started to rant about it without even having much clue to what it was about and simply because those persons were both involved in the motoon-debacle. So based on that affair it's a fair guess that the islamists will rant about the film without even having seen it. Having noticed that many kafir-blogs shows appreciation of it is enough for them to come to the conclusion that it must be insulting to islam. Hopefully I will be wrong about this though.

joeblough said...

Watched some of it, about half I guess.

Frankly I have too much animus toward all things mohammedan to tolerate much along those lines, even when good.

I will say that this Ehsan Jami seems to be sincerely working to get his home culture onto a civilized footing and I wish him luck.

One can see that he is working hard to treat his subject with common sense and respect, and to give mohammed et al every benefit of every doubt.

Personally I'd rather just flatten Rhyad, Mecca and Medina and be done with the whole bloody mess.

But who knows? Under the leadership of such men as Ehsan Jami perhaps the mohammedans will enter the civilized world and all that violence will be rendered unnecessary.

I'm not optimistic. But humans are humans.

bivouac-id.com said...

Does anybody know if Ehsan Jami (or anyone else) has made the transcript of the film available? We are a French blog and we are considering subtitling this movie for the French-speaking audience as we did for quite a few videos including Wilder's Fitna, some of Wafa Sultan's speeches, Pat Condell's videos, and the short version of The Third Jihad. I suppose that a transcript would also be of interest to anyone else envisaging subtitling the movie in their own language (Spanish, German, Arabic, etc..) so as to widen its potential reach. If anyone has any information in this regard or can help in any manner, please let us know here or by leaving us a message on this page. Thank you!

Jewel Atkins said...

I tried to watch the film, but I found it unwatchable. I simply can't imagine Mohammed tempering his beliefs any more than I could imagine Hitler or Stalin tempering theirs. Evil men go from bad to worse. I could imagine such an interview with St. Paul, who's life was an about-face from a core belief unto a new faith. That would be a fascinating interview.
On the other hand, I applaud Mr. Jami for trying. He was rationalizing, though. I picture an interview with Mohammed to be more like the interview with Bin Laden or any number of imams.
The film will have a nice, riotous effect on the followers of the prophet, I only wish that it had been more watchable.
We are going to have to overcome a lot of timidity and find new sources of documentarians to make courageous and brutally honest films about Islam and its origins that people would be willing to watch.

Henrik R Clausen said...

I think work is in progress for a transcript of this, with the intent of subtitling it. I'm sure that if Baron gets his hands on one, he'll post it.

Czechmade said...

Atkins,

I would prefer him as a defendant with all our superior laws flying around him and endlessly stressed in all details with the help of an attorney and advocate.

Also the public in the court might be loud and show various forms of consternation or bewilderment.

He would get multiple life long sentence.

The movie might be called "The integration of the prophet Mohammed into Western society".

The purpose of the movie would be very altruistic - helping muslims in understanding our society based on their religeous fantasies.

Vladtepesblog.com said...

The fact is, it doesn't matter at one level what the film says. The important thing is that people make films that they know will upset Muslims but make them anyway. The path to victory can be easy. Ignore the demands of the tyrants and they will stop. The more galleries that ignore Islamic demands and the more artists that dare challenge sharia limits on expression the less power the Muslims have and the less likely that there will be a reaction to any of it. I myself have made 100 T shirts with the image of Larry Curly and Mohamed with a Gregorius Neckshot quote.
Lastly, how did he manage to get Arnold Schwarzenegger to play Mohamed? Good to know Arnie's still got it.