Saturday, February 10, 2007

Denmark Irredenta

I was flattered on Wednesday when a Swedish blogger named Knute, who keeps a blog called “Every Kinda People”, linked approvingly to my recent post about the Danish Model.

Som jag skrev i en tidigare post, en skillnad mellan Sverige och Danmark är besättelsen, att tyskarnas ockupation under andra världskriget har gjort att danskarna inte vill finna sig i översitteri och trakasseri.

Men det finns fler förklaringar till att det inte längre är den svenska utan den danska modellen som världen talar om:

“Danskarna är ljusår före resten av Västern i sina mellanhavanden med islam, multikulturalism, massimmigration från tredje världen, och alla de andra frågorna som orsakar PC-plåga och täpper till artärerna på politiken.”

Danish reader Kepiblanc kindly volunteered a translation of the first two paragraphs:

As I wrote in an earlier post, one of the differences between Sweden and Denmark is that the German occupation during the Second World War had the effect that Danes will not tolerate being pushed around and harassed.

But there is more than one explanation as to why it’s no longer the Swedish, but the Danish model the world is talking about:

The third paragraph of his post is a translation into Swedish of part of my essay. It’s the first occasion, to my knowledge, that anything at Gates of Vienna has been translated into a foreign language. A momentous occasion!

Skåne

When I referred to Knute as a Swede, I was not being completely accurate. Knute lives in Sydsverige, or “South Sweden”, also known as Skåne or Scania. Until 1658 Skåne was a part of Denmark, but after Karl X Gustav of Sweden defeated the Danes in the First Northern War, Skåne became a Swedish possession.
- - - - - - - - - -
The Treaty of Roskilde in 1658 and the Treaties of Oliwa and København in 1660 codified the new arrangement. Skåne remained Swedish, and throughout the latter half of the 17th century the Swedish crown relentlessly “swedified” the province, attempting to erase any cultural affinity with Denmark.

The Treaty of Oliwa, 1660

But Skåne was never really fully integrated. To this day the people of Skåne are regarded by the “real” Swedes of the northern counties as not quite Swedish. They are thought to possess at least some of the notoriously lax and distasteful Danish traits.

The history of Skåne is somewhat glossed over by the Swedish tourist bureau, Sverigeturism:

The peace treaty of Roskilde 1658, when Skåne came under the sovereignty of Sweden’s king Karl X Gustav , signalled a period of harsh “swedeification” of the province, which was to last beyond 1700. Although the nobility was quick in pledging allegiance to the King of Sweden (in exchange for being allowed to keep their estates) most of the population of Skåne felt more Danish than Swedish. The Danes tried to recapture Skåne but failed when King Karl XI won the battle in 1676 (Lund) over the Danes.

Some Danish websites are more vehement about the history of the region. According to The Copenhagen Post:

No More Lies: The Blood Truth About Skane, Halland and Blekinge

For the past 300 years Swedish and Danish historians have overlooked the tragic history of south-western Sweden.

Traditional costume of Scania“The Swedish historians have lied, and the Danish ones have repressed their own history,” says amateur Swedish historian, Uno Röndahl, about the history of Skåne, Halland and Blekinge — the three principalities of Sweden that lie directly across the Øresund Strait from Copenhagen. “People don’t know that these lands were once part of Denmark, and that the people who lived here were Danes. Nor do they know that the Swedish kings practiced genocide on the population of these regions in order to stamp out any signs of Denmark and force Skåne, Halland and Blekinge into being Swedish.” Now with the bridge connecting Denmark and Sweden through this region, Röndahl says it is time for the truth to be told.

For over a thousand years, Skåne, Halland and Blekinge belonged to Denmark. In fact in the days of King Christian IV the regions were considered to be the mainland part of the country, a distinction that has since shifted over to the Jutland Peninsula. Looking at a map of Scandinavia, the importance of the regions in relationship to the rest of Denmark might not seem at first logical. Situated at the very tip of the Swedish Peninsula, Skåne, Halland and Blekinge seem naturally part of the Swedish nation; however, if one looks closer it is easy to see that, with the exception of Zealand itself, these lands are closer to Copenhagen than the Jutland penisula. In fact, one of the principle reasons for moving the Danish capital from the city of Roskilde east to Copenhagen was to situate the government in a more central position in relation to the rest of the lands of Denmark, and yet Danish history books make only cursory mention of the regions importance.

“I believe the reason Denmark represses the history of the region is due to the trauma it suffered,” Röndahl says. “Much in the way a raped woman tries to forget the agony she has gone through, Denmark turned its back on its former lands.”

It’s strange to picture Sweden — known nowadays as the quintessentially pacifist nation — as a militaristic and aggressive European power. But it is only by some quirk of fate that Germany aspired to form the great Nordic Reich, and not Sweden. An objective observer in 1700 would certainly have placed his bets on the Swedes over the Germans as the future hegemons of northern Europe.

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The most prominent city in Skåne is Malmö, which grew up in the Middle Ages around the place where the Archbishop of Lund berthed his ship. It has become notorious in recent years for having the most intractably unassimilated population of Muslim immigrants of any European city north of Paris.

So how do the Danes feel about “Denmark Irredenta”? Given the current situation in the urban parts of Skåne — the immigrants, the violence, and the multiculturalism — would they want it back?

They might just as readily say, “No thanks, Sweden. It’s OK — you can keep it.”

27 comments:

talnik said...

I read a book titled "A History of the Swedish People" by Moberg. It's amazing how ruthless and cruel the Swedes were back in the day.

Archonix said...

You could say that about any people from those days, especially if they were germanic. Pacifism wasn't a very good survival method.

kepiblanc said...

The Second World War wasn't the first time Danes formed an "underground army". Every Danish school kid knows "Gøngehøvdingen" [The Giunge Chief] - or at least the novel by author Carit Etlar. Svend Poulsen formed his "Snaphaner" [Ranger Guerillas] in Skåne and later transferred them to the defense of Copenhagen where the Swedes suffered a major defeat on the night of February 11.Th 1659. A worthy descendant of Holger Danske.

Zerosumgame said...

Baron,

Out of curiosity, are you and Dymphna planning to visit Denmark?

You've got quite the fan club there.

And besides, with all the posting you do about Denmark and Sweden, I bet it would add a lot to your blog by seeing these two nations in person and then being able to comment on it.

Yeah, I know, they're expensive places. But still, it seems kind of fitting for your next vacation.

Yorkshireminer said...

Yes I tend to agree with you Kepiblanc. I had forgotten about those gentlemen, mind you all the Danes rallied round during that battle. There is a plaque somewhere in Copenhagen commemorating the students who took part in the battle, on condition that they weren't hit by the officers. There wasn't much talk about global warming during the mini-ice age that gripped Europe during the middle of the 17th century. It must have been some battle a night attack over the frozen sea. The trouble is Kepiblanc, the Danes had rubbed up the majority of the European maritime powers who at that time got most of there naval stores from the Baltic area, by levying a passage tax through the sound. Like the Arabs today who can turn off the oil spigot at will and shut down the western economy, you had the ability to with the two fortresses that controlled the entrance to the sound Helsingor and Helsingborg to do the same to England Holland and France. This is one of the reason why the Dutch helped in the defense of Copenhagen, but were not too helpful in restoring the Swedish provinces back to Denmark. The imposition of that Tax was perhaps the greatest political blunder Denmark ever made. I don't think it was rescinded until the middle of the 19th century and then only by mutual agreement and the payment of a lump sum by the Great powers. I also have a sneaky feeling that one of the maritime powers never did pay. I wont mention who. Mind you the Swedes were exceedingly formidable at that time, Cromwell in fact hired many Swedish non commissioned officers to help train the parliamentary army.

Baron Bodissey said...

Zero,

Yes, if prosperity ever returns to Castle Bodissey, I plan to visit Denmark. Several of the Snaphaunces have already offered accomodation to Dymphna and me when we come!

It's been 40 years since I was last there. I would love to go back.

kepiblanc said...

My house will be open any time to Dymphna & the Baron - and you too, Zero. I think you'll like it here...

Recent developments in Scandinavia may point to what will be the future of Europe : Danish politicians are right now discussing a cancellation of Nordic cooperation. At present Scandinavia is one country with respect to many things, such as labor market, trade, passports, etc.. etc.. - including the right to social welfare, if need be. Any Scandinavian can choose to live wherever he wants in Norway, Sweden or Denmark without problems.

But with the current avalanche of Muslims into Sweden - who gives them citizenship after only 4 years - they acquire the same rights automatically. So far none of them want to live in Norway or Denmark, but what happens when the Swedish welfare system collapses under its own burden ?

Many politicians can see the scenario: millions of unemployed, welfare-receiving Muslims suddenly breaking up for Norway or - eventually - Denmark. Collapse is unavoidable, unless we separate our states completely prior to that catastrophe.

In many ways it's like a quarantine situation where regions are compartmentalized in order to contain a virulent disease. One region is left to succumb so others can survive.

Thus ends the "Nordic Idea".

kepiblanc said...

Yorkshireminer, you're right : The Oresund Tax was without any doubt the biggest and most fatal blunder in Danish history.

OTOH I have to give credit to the Swedes: Carl X Gustav marching an entire army with 60,000 men, horses, artillery and whatnot across the frozen Great Belt is without any doubt one of the most brilliant and courageous maneuvers in military history.

ln said...

Kudos to archonix - this blog's prominent and untiring bearer of the COMMON SENSE standard!

And regards to everybody from a place 18 km north-north-east of Malmö called
Lund, where in 1676 Danes and Swedes met in the most bloody battle ever on Nordic ground. The main part of the battle was fought 2-3 km from where I live today. Only good luck made the Swedes win - casualty ca 5000 deaths.
Take a look at Malmö 16 years after the murderous battle at Lund: http://www.malmo1692.nu/Eng/Scr/Menu.htm

El Jefe Maximo said...

When thinking of Denmark Irredenta you might also remember lower Schleswig and Holstein, taken from Denmark in the Second Schleswig War of 1864 by Prussia and Austria, and ultimately incorporated in Prussia and the German Empire by that fellow whose picture you use, Baron. Upper Schleswig went back to Denmark in 1918.

The Swedish Army. Now there is some history to conjure with. Such splendid infantry, right up to Charles XII, who had a superb army...just too small for the tasks he set it.

Phanarath said...

Archonix and LN

I understod the point being about lying about history.

Danes did some nasty stuff also, like Bloodbath in Stockholm

But saying that; something was not uncommen back then, does not explain the need to pretend it never happened.


Its allways good fun to badmouth the Swedes. But when it comes from others then Danes or Norwegians, I tend to become slightly defensive of them. That does not include bashings from the Baron, since he is clearly a Viking Cyberskald. But its important to remember that Norway and Sweden are Danish areas, at the moment unfortunatly controled by rebels.

Phanarath said...

By the way. This is not the first time the Baron has been translated. Last spring an article about EU was translated to Danish in parts. First part is here. Here

Dymphna said...

phanarath--

That was Fjordman. He's been translated into Dutch and German,too. Even though the Baron always puts up the fjord picture, sometimes the B gets a mention anyway, since his name is on it.

Jason_Pappas said...

I have to admit that after reading about Denmark on this blog, I’ve been pushing my wife to take a trip there the next time we jump across the pond.

After that we'll finally visit Virginia...

Asger said...

Well I think we might see some pretty amazing changes in the next decade, here is my analysis:

1. Sweden does not seem to be able to revive its national identity / at least not in time. This could in 4 - 5 years lead to a Islamic take over of Sweden.
2. Sweden does not have any serious allies.
3. Denmark has had a nationalistic renaessance in the last 4 - 5 years - and this will eventually lead to discussion about Skaane.
4. Denmark is closely allied with the Anglo Saxons - in fact Danes and Anglo Saxon share an original cultural embarking point, giving a deeper feeling of ¨sammenhold¨
5. Right now the danes of Skaane is bearing the brunt of the suicidal swedish immigration policy

There is a fair chance that in the next decade Denmark and allies will reclaim Skaane - liberating the danes there from the crumbling Swedish socilist state.

And if Sweden falls in its entirety, the whole of Sweden will be liberated by the Anglo-Saxons and the Danes.

In fact I think it is Denmarks duty to the Danes in Skaane to help them.

If everything goes ok, Sweden should be restored to the Swedes, and Skaane should be brought back to Denmark - or be independent, and backed by the danish state if necesarry.

We have interesting times ahead of us.

Mikael said...

Situated at the very tip of the Swedish Peninsula, Skåne, Halland and Blekinge seem naturally part of the Swedish nation

Which is true, however, Skåne is Geologically very similar to the rest of Denmark (Flat and fertile lands whereas Sweden is much more rocky and mountainous with vast forrest at that.) Further more the border to Sweden for many centuries consisted of deep forests, making a "natural border".

If yo look at a large-scale map, you will find a lot of villages, the name ending with "röd" or "red" in these areas. This suffix means "clearing" (the prefix is usually a man's name)and is a typical name from the 12'th and 13'th century. It would seem that the Danes and the Swedes hacked their way into the woods in order to gain farmlands. One day the border got very thin and war became inevitable.

At least that's my theory.


@Asger:
I for one would welcome a closer tie between Skåne and the rest of Denmark. The inhabitant's of Skåne never have truly been Swedes. Nor - of course - are they Danes any more.

Archonix said...

My wife is from Skåne, or was born there at least. Just thought I'd mention that. :)

kepiblanc said...

Sorry Asger, but to me your scenario seems utterly unrealistic. When Sweden self-destructs Skåne will be a Muslim-majority mini-Barbaristan. As the Baron suggests : "They can keep it - Thankyouverymuch".

So, when the bloodshed begins we (Norway & Denmark) will have to welcome maybe millions of "persons with a Swedish background" as refugees - unless they decide to do something about it.

Archonix said...

I still don't like this assumption that sweden will inevitably self-destruct. Nothing is inevitable! It might seem inevitable, but that's just appearances.

You've all mentioned Sweden's brutal past and the current behaviour of denial regarding it, but I see all that as irrelevant in the end. All these nords are like a river with ice over it, which seems placid and unmoving, but which can be a raging torrent underneath. Now, Sweden may seem like a placid attempt at utopia but I doubt that a millenium of bred-in behaviour just can't be swept away over one, or even two generations. 10, I could accept. Two? Not long enough. The placidity is merely ice over a raging torrent.

Why am I suddenly saying this now? Three weeks ago my wife's grandmother died, and she's just been reminiscing about her. She was rich, my grandmother in law, in wealth and character, and a very strong woman. During the war she was in the secret service, intercepting radio signals and passing them on to the allies. She stopped that when she got married in 1941, but she'd had a long career of it; sweden had been aiding the allies since before the war started. Pragmatism, I suppose, since they were selling the nazis ball bearings too, but it puts the lie to the idea that the swedes were sitting on the sidelines. It was dangerous work.

I learned that.

I learned that she cared for her family when her husband was injured and laid up in hospital for several months, which presumably impacted her sons. I've had previous misgivings about the downer a lot of people have on Sweden from here, and now I see why. While it's undeniable that the current generation is growing up in a fairly uncaring society and appears to be nbihilistic, I will not assume that this is representative of the whole lot. There are too many stories like these to make it so. Too many families who are living right, imbuing their children with the right priorities, the right way of thinking, with morality and strength of character that she shared with her family. I've met her sons. My father in law is one, he's an amiable man, a teacher who likes to pick mushrooms, but he's strong in his heart. His brother is a lawyer in stockholm, an honourable man despite his choice of profession. Each has believed himself alone in the straightjacket of the state and media, but take that away and they'll see they aren't.

And soon that straightjacket will be taken away. It's only a matter of time. The devil's biggest trick was convicing people he doesn't exist, but opposite that is always his biggest mistake; he plays his hand too soon. Islam plays its hand too soon as well, and people will see the truth.

Nothing is inevitable.

Zerosumgame said...

kepiblanc said

So, when the bloodshed begins we (Norway & Denmark) will have to welcome maybe millions of "persons with a Swedish background" as refugees - unless they decide to do something about it.

Kepi,

When all hell breaks loose, you are going to need every last soldier in your Army and every last patrol boat and sailor in your navy to shut down the border and keep the Swedes out.

Not only would the Islamic troublemakers slip into the country among the Gentiles, but you would be importing hundreds of thousands of Swedes and their poisonous ideas that would ruin your country.

Phanarath said...

Sorry Dymphna, I hope he didn't get all exited :-)

Zerosumgame, If this happens, we are not going to want to keep them out.
I hope it never comes to this, but if it does, I cant imagine that many of those poisonous ideas would be there still.
As for Islamic troublemakers. Well... by then we will be playing a whole different game.

Keeping the swedes out, is very close to unthinkable in a Scandinavians context. We are in so many ways one people. Think about the fact that Danes have gotten a lot of credit for sailing Jews to Sweden, during WW2. Sweden hardly gets any credit for letting them in. A lot of Danes also went to Sweden during the Nazi-occupation. There was even Danish Military training in Sweden preparing for the liberation of Denmark.

The reason the Swedes hardly get any credit for all these things, is that, between Scandinavians, it is taken for granted.

So you see; The can be no shutting down the borders to keep the Swedes out.

Yorkshireminer said...

Dear Phanarath,
I think you are right, the Swedes do have a bad press but we must not forget that it is the politicians and so called intellectual that have let there brains free wheel the last 30 years not your average Swede. I have never had any respect for the Nobel prize committee since they gave the peace prize to Yassir Arafat and Menachem Begin two former terrorists. People have described it as soft totalitarianism, they may be right but I think that the average Swedes has a very decent core it is just that they have got a longer fuse than most. Most people don't know that the Scandinavian countries sent a corp of volunteers to fight beside the Finns in the 1939 winter war against the Russians most were Swedes. They not only trained a Danish Army they transported it to Denmark as soon as the war ended in 1945. They certainly helped the British during the war a British mosquito flew to a Swedish Air Base and brought back to Britain the remains of a V2 rocket that had gone astray and crashed on Swedish soil. They might not have been in a battle since 1814 they only missed Waterloo by a few days as there was a Swedish army marching through Holland to meet up with Wellington but I am certain that they have not lost there martial vigor. Gustav Mannerheim the leader of the Finnish Army during the war was a Swedish speaking Finn, and the Finns certainly didn't do too badly under his leadership.

Phanarath said...

Hey Yorkshireminer, I have missed you :-)

Swedes are great people. Rereading my post, I can see that it might sound like we would be doing them a favor. The truth is that any Nation on this earth should consider itself blessed if it was suddely overrun by millions of Svedes who had enough of Islam. If something like that happened, to Denmark, we would surely be saved.

If Germany had not attacked Denmark and Norway. It is very likely, that we would have behaved exatly like Sweden did. The Russian Finnish war, was an unprovoked attack by russia against an allmost-Skandinavian country. Danes Norwigians and Swedes went to fight the Russians and protect Finnland. The Russians was seen as the main enemy back then, and Germany was seen as someone who could stop them.

After ww2 the Danes who had fought for Finnland was put in jail for treason, even though the danish goverment had asked people to go.
Not our proudest moment.

Back to the story of 1658.

For people who like History and the heroics of the commen man. I would like you to know a story, that I am personaly very found of.

When Denmark lost Skåne Halland and Blekinge to the Swedes. We also lost an Island, east of Sealand called, Bornholm. But they didnt like the Swedes much, so they fought them of, reclaimed their Island, and gave it back to the King of Denmark.

I Pasted the following from Wiki..

"After the war in 1658, Denmark ceded the island to Sweden along with the rest of the Scanian provinces and Trøndelag and it was occupied by Swedish forces.

A revolt broke out the same year, culminating in Willum Clausen's shooting of the Swedish commander Johan Printzensköld on September 9, 1658. Following the revolt, a deputation of islanders presented the island as a gift to King Frederick III on the condition that the island would never be ceded again. This status was confirmed in the following peace settlement (1660)."

Asger said...

to archonix:

I sure do hope the swedes wake up and join the fight against islamofascism - the problem is just that the clock is ticking and time is running out. In the current situation sweden does not have time. It is difficult to know the exact time schedule, Sweden is currently able to support its well fare state for some time, and could poteially borrow money. But when money runs out, and the immigrants are trapped inside sweden they will probably try a takeover, a revolution.

A revolution is nasty because it is friends against friends, plenty of raping, murder, disease - mayhem. And the swedes are in no way prepared to confront such a reality.

The rest of the world would not allow the atrocities to go on for too long, but the swedish constitutinal system will cease to exist - and a new constitution will be made. But control of the swedes will, at least in initial stages be done from Washington or Copenhagen - and hopefully be give back at some point. But the days as main power of scandinavia will be lost.

Now the common people of scandinavia likes each other, but will the danes give back the control of Sweden to the swedes? Maybe, maybe not - I hope so because that would be the right thing to do, but you never know who will be in power when the dust settles.

Knute said...

Dear Baron Bodissey,

here's another translation into Swedish from your eminent writings:

"Oberoende av hur många muslimer det finns i ett land borde följande inte tillåtas:

- Inskränkningar i yttrandefriheten för att undvika att skymfa muslimernas religion.
- Uppmana till våld mot icke-troende och avfällingar från islam.
- Separation av män och kvinnor i offentliga inrättningar.
- Ändringar av menyn i offentliga institutioner för att passa muslimska dietlagar.
- Instruktion av skolbarn på ett annat språk än landets officiella.
- Tvångsgifte av kvinnor till män som de inte vill gifta sig med.
- Att under inga omständigheter täcka ansiktet när lag eller administration behöver förhindra det.
- Att förhindra lagens utövande genom regler mot "profilering".

http://everykindapeople.blogspot.com/2007/02/knfall-fr-intoleransen.html

And here is the original:

No matter how many Muslims there are in a country, none of the following should be allowed:


The censorship of speech in order to avoid giving religious offense to Muslims.

Inciting violence against unbelievers or apostates.

The separation of men and women in any public facilities.

The alteration of the menu in public institutions to accommodate Muslim dietary laws.

Instruction of schoolchildren in any language other than the official language of the country.

The forcible marriage of women to men they do not want to marry.

The complete covering of the face in any circumstances where law or administration needs to prohibit it.

The obstruction of law enforcement by rules against “profiling”.

http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2007/02/political-navet.html

Baron Bodissey said...

Knute, thak you for the translation work!

Anonymous said...

So how do the Danes feel about “Denmark Irredenta”? Given the current situation in the urban parts of Skåne — the immigrants, the violence, and the multiculturalism — would they want it back?

-----

the violence???

the smallest english county town is 10 times more violent than malmö.

i know. i'm english and i've also lived in malmö.