Monday, November 14, 2005

Harvest of Hubris

 
As usual, Wretchard sums up a situation in his inimitable way. This time it is the folly and sophistry of Senator McCain’s immoral amendment regarding treatment of captured terrorists who would seek to destroy our country. Senator McCain expects our government to keep us safe from those who recognize no law, who respect no limit, and who spit upon the human compact while he still demands that this same government play nice with these murderous aliens from another moral universe.

We simply cannot have it both ways, even though John McCain demands that it be so.

What then will our cornered government do? Will it refuse the Senator’s ranting demands and thus paralyze the legislative branch? Or will it give in to the mad McCain, suffering from God knows what lingering devils of incarceration, and sign off on his simplistic amendment?

Belmont Club has a tertium quid, an unfortunate “middle way” which is likely to be the way of it. No more Guantanamo Bay, no more policing the detainees. Not by Americans, anyway. No, the killers will be disappeared into the countries of allies who sign off on all those Humane Treatment covenants and then do as they damn well think they need to when they have terrorist in hand. In other words, they will obtain the information — and it won’t be through sleep deprivation or loud music.
     In practice terrorist suspects captured anywhere in the world won't be taken to Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, or any "hell-hole" under US control. Nor will they be handled for an instant by US nationals or taken in raids involving a single American. No, that would be too dangerous -- to the health of the captives, though thankfully for the politicians, not to the legal health of the Americans. They will be captured and retained by countries beyond the circle of attention. On the day the Amendment is passed there will be light everywhere except in the places of our soul where we don't want to look.
Thank you so very much, Senator McCain, for insuring that the treatment you received will be repeated on others. Now the karma is on your head, sir.

It is your harvest of hubris.

15 comments:

Charles Johnson said...

Sometimes McCain makes a ton of sense, sometimes he is just a strait idiotarian. I sware, it's like he's two different people.

Cobalt Blue said...

Here he is plain idiotarian, giving in to moral vanity. Can't the president veto this rubbish? Or is it veto-proof on the numbers?

John Sobieski said...

I wonder if he isn't doing it as part of a 2008 presidential move as well. I have become very disillusioned with McCain, he is pro immigration and like so many politicians, does not and will not see what Islam really is. Ignorance is inexcusable. It's all on the web if you want to find knowledge about what Islam is all about. Or buy a fews books by Spencer, Ye'or, Bostom, and Sperry. That should open your eyes.

Alan Kellogg said...

How does their mistreatment of our people justify our mistreatment of their people? I'm with McCain, a civilized nation does not torture their prisoners. No matter what the provocation, no matter what the goal. A civilized people have standards and they live by those standards. You don't want to live by those standards, then stop calling yourself civilized.

metaphysician said...

Alan Kellogg-

What, then, is the incentive for anyone *else* to behave civilized, if they receive the benefits of our being civilized without any such action on their part??

What we really should do, is simply offer each prisoner a choice: they can cooperate and tell us what they know, or they can be hanged the next dawn. At the very least, you will have fewer prisoners to worry about. . .

Goesh said...

Play by the rules with terrorists, lose by the rules. That adage is playing out every day. Isn't it odd that nazism and Japanese imperialism could be such a scourge that total war was unleashed? Gee! Imagine that! Hiroshima and Dresden are but two examples of the extreme measures needed to eradicate said scourge. It will take a biochemical attack somewhere to wake certain people up. Some people could have the skin dripping off their faces from a dirty nuke and they would still suffer under the delusion that reason and rationality and civilized Law can affectively combat islamic terrorism. A suitcase nuke in DC and one in NYC and our nation is crippled for many, many years. Terrorists only understand and respect a force greater than themselves. What is so complicated about that? They hold us, our children and our way of life in complete visceral, lethal contempt. Average, do-gooder 'civilized' people would literally piss all over themselves if they every came face to face with a real terrorist intent on cutting off their stupid heads and feeding their intestines to dogs. You know why McCain and the POWS were treated the way they were? Because they were nothing but scum in the eyes of the NVA. The only thing that saved him from being staked to the ground and eaten alive by starving hogs for the entertainment of the people was his propoganda value, nothing more. I've said it before - if McCain had any critical intelligence to be gained, they would have broken him in about 20 minutes, probably by sticking slivers of bamboo in his testicles and lighting them on fire for starters. Welcome to the utter brutality and hideous nature of combatting mortal enemies. Sleep deprivation, climate control, yelling, threatening, etc. is not torture. People like McCain give hope to our enemies and embolden them and fuel their contempt and resolve - they have no respect for their capability - they are arrogant to the point of being dangerous. 9/11 simply has not registerd with them.

moderationist said...

Every time the death cultists are appeased, they come back 10 times worse.

al fin said...

In the clash of civilisations, your Senator McCain is just another Neville Chamberlain. He is an appeaser of the basest variety. If you replace your current president Bush with McCain, or someone like him, you will be sealing the death of western civilisation.

Dymphna said...

stuart fullerton

McCain is doing his version of a nuclear retaliation. He will put that amendment onto every piece of legislation until finally the President has to sign *something* to keep the govt from shutting down.

The kindest thing one could say is that he is unhinged. People who know him say he has anger management "issues" and is quite reactive -- those are after burn prolbems for anyone suffering from PTSD. As no doubt he is. While I feel sorry for him for that, I sure don't want him anywhere near our policy making. The fact that someone from Arizona doesn't get the immigration mess is a signal we're dealing with a narrow focus here.
_____________

Alan Kellogg: Read Prime Minister John Howard's views to get up to par on what is going on in the world and how we need to deal with it.

This is not "torture" but it is rough treatment and is meant to get the information we need. The first duty of a govt is to secure the safety of its citizens. If people like McCain want to stand athwart that attempt then someone will have to build a "work-around" his obstinate ass.

That means, as Wretchard said, we won't capture them and we won't interview them but we will be given the information nonetheless. And the price we pay is our refusal to look into the dark corners of our own soul because John McCain spent too much time looking into his.

We *are* a civilized people. OTOH, we have rough men standing guard so you and I can blather about how civilized we are...

Goesh said...

- indeed. So we get collaberating intelligence from several reliable sources including long distance obesrvation and are able to nab a strongly suspected or even known cell leader in say Mosul. End of story, thanks to McCain and his ilk. All Abu has to do is sit and recite verses of the quran in his mind and not answer a damn question. End of story, so the location of the bomb making shop and the names and locations of the men willing to kill themselves in the process of killing civilians at a market or hospital remains unknown. That is the end result of such arrogance and 'cultural superiority'. Once in play, it will only provide terrorists more incentive to plan and act. They can run higher risks with less concern of losing assets. That is the tactical end results of McCain's bleeding heart. It will manifest in dead bodies and not just in Iraq. Wretchard is right, the high value targets will be sent off to parts unknown and broken there, but at the local, field level, McCain is enabling more terrorism. It is disgusting. He is hoping to garnish support from moderate Democrats, nothing more. What a callous, revolting man.

quark2 said...

McCain has proven in my eyes he has no business being a representative of citizens. His time as a prisoner has ruint him for making genuinely reasonable decisions that impact all of us.
He needs to retire, mebbe take up making flys for fishing. And he needs to do what lots of veterans are doing now, get some help.

hank_F_M said...

There is a difference between proper interrogation and torture. Aside from the fact Wretchard notes, that this will effectively restrict the US from both, the McCain amendment is one of the most poorly written pieces of legislation proposed this (and possibly any) session of Congress.


PS If you check in the blogger preferences they have set up “track back feature”

heather said...

This McCain anti torture law will result in exactly the same blowback as we all saw in his wonderful election finance law: precisely the opposite of the declared intention of John McCain.

I am convinced that the man has a very low IQ, which goes along with his massive ego. And now, I know this is very unpolitic, but I wonder, I really wonder, what DID happen lo those years ago in the Hanoi Hilton.

Dymphna said...

Hank f_m_:

I couldn't get that link to open.

Heather:

I love that particular shade of paranoia. Very funny! But I agree with you about that piece of work --he will do the same amount of damage with it as he did with his campaign poison.

What is *wrong* with Arizona???

hank_F_M said...

Opps

Here is the link.