Sunday, November 22, 2009

The Coming Crash

The Fjordman Report

The noted blogger Fjordman is filing this report via Gates of Vienna.
For a complete Fjordman blogography, see The Fjordman Files. There is also a multi-index listing here.



I am preparing a text which I will publish at The Brussels Journal in the not-too-distant future, but I will begin the discussion here first. When I read the various comments at Lawrence Auster’s place and Dennis Mangan’s blog, Takuan Seiyo’s recent piece at TBJ and the latest post by El Inglés at Gates of Vienna, I get the feeling that tensions are building up and that something big is going to happen within the coming generation, probably within the next five to ten years. Since I have been writing about geology lately I will use an analogy from plate tectonics: The tectonic plates of the Western world are now about to make a big move.

Tensions have been building slowly beneath the surface for many years and sooner or later these forces will be released in the form of a series of devastating earthquakes, followed by some secondary political and economic tsunamis. Some of the structures that currently appear to be rock solid will collapse like a house of cards during this period and the political landscape will change considerably. What appears unthinkable today will appear natural or inevitable twenty years from now. This is the discontinuity that El Inglés talks about. I would rank Britain as the Western European country most likely to first get a civil war caused by mass immigration and Multiculturalism. Denmark follows as number two and possibly Holland as number three. Both Belgium and Sweden are pretty bad, but too repressive to be first in line. Germany is too weighed down by her history to be first. This leaves France as a potential dark horse. I admit I don’t understand how the French think. On the surface, France looks screwed. On the other hand, France is historically speaking a revolutionary nation, for better or worse. Maybe there is some mini-Charles Martel in hiding somewhere. If so, he better show up soon.

I think we need to be realistic and realize that the current political-ideological order is completely broken and beyond repair. Instead of wasting time and energy on attempting to fix what cannot be fixed we need to prepare as best as we can for the coming crash and hopefully regroup to create something new and stronger afterward. There will be a pan-Western and perhaps international economic and social collapse in the not-too-distant future. I fear that this is too late to avoid by now. The people who support the ruling paradigm are too powerful and the paradigm contains so many flaws that it cannot be fixed. It needs to crash. We should focus on surviving this crash and on developing a new paradigm to replace the failed one.
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We need to learn from our enemies, both internal and external. The one thing I reluctantly admire about Marxists and Leftists of all stripes is above all their ability to organize and focus on long-term goals. Unfortunately, their goals are usually destructive, but we can and must learn from their organizational skills so that we can beat them at their own game. They must be squashed, otherwise we cannot deal rationally and adequately with our external enemies.

We must get rid of Feminism, which is destructive and merely an extension of Marxism, anyway. We must prepare as best as we can for a collapse of the US dollar and perhaps the Euro. We must document what is being done to us by treasonous elites for future references, for instance by making a video dedicated to anti-white verbal and physical violence around the world. We must take steps to ensure our physical safety and regain pride in our heritage.

We need to get rid of the EU, ridicule the UN and starve it for funds. I’m not sure whether we need NATO, either, although I’m willing to debate that part. The American defense umbrella may no longer be sustainable when the US economy fails. Besides, it is laughable to think that the US military would “protect” native Europeans from Muslims. It is the official policy of both major US parties to support — no accelerate — the continued destruction of Europe, just like it is their policy to continue the destruction of their own country. Just because the EU is awful, which it is, doesn’t necessarily mean that the USA is good. The American political elites are champions of dangerous and dysfunctional ideologies at home and abroad. The current US President Obama has publicly pledged himself to combat opposition to Islam rather than Islam itself, which means that it is official US policy to spread Islamic law. Uncle Sam is Uncle Sharia, as we have recently seen demonstrated. If the Soviet Union was the Evil Empire then the USA is the Diversity Empire, committed to spreading Multiculturalism and genetic Communism around the world, especially to white majority countries.

US General Wesley Clark during the bombing against Serbia in 1999 said more or less explicitly that the war was undertaken to impose “diversity.” I don’t hate Americans is general but their elites are just as hostile as the EU elites, and they have bigger guns. When I see how Nidal Hasan was treated by the US military I don’t think I want these people involved in my affairs. They would probably say that native Euros are Nazis who oppress the poor Muslims. Then they would bomb us and say it is for our own good, just like they did to the Serbs. The United States will not survive this century. It will be split into several countries according to ethnic, racial and perhaps even ideological lines. There is no such thing as a universal nation. People want to live with their own kind. The only ones who are not allowed to do so are whites, and they are starting to get tired of this double standard. People of European origins are among the least ethnocentric people on the planet and are currently being penalized heavily for this. Self-preservation is a natural instinct for all living things down to plants and bacteria. It’s about time that whites reclaim the same right without apology. I am increasingly convinced that the developments we are witnessing are deliberate. The lies we are being served are virtually identical in every Western country. I’ve had some discussions about this with my friend Ohmyrus who thinks this is about a structural failure in our political system. I don’t necessarily disagree with that, but I also believe there is a planned long-term goal of breaking down all white majority nations to create a new global oligarchy. Anti-white ideologies are now taught in every Western university and were arguably elevated to national ideology in the USA with the election of Obama. I suspect this is because whites have historically had an unusually high emphasis on self-rule, rule by consent and power sharing, not to mention the fact that we ask too many questions. This is annoying to those who desire an authoritarian system with themselves on top. We need to be broken, culturally and demographically. This is why the elites desire mass immigration. The leading “Multicultural theorist” in my country, Professor Thomas Hylland Eriksen of the University of Oslo, said frankly that the most important thing to do now is “deconstructing the majority so thoroughly that it can never be called the majority again.” He is essentially calling for dismantling his own people and he knows that he can do so with total impunity.

Also, I suspect that the main reason why many others hate us is that European civilization has been so incomparably much more influential and accomplished than any other civilization on this planet that our existence makes them feel inferior. The only way they can stop feeling inferior is by eradicating us. A terribly politically incorrect thing to say, but that’s my view.

47 comments:

El said...

fjordman, i will be looking forward to the essay. i think five to ten years sounds about right for the first european country to 'go', if you know what i mean. hopefully that norwegian professor will have an accident when it happens, slip on a banana-skin or something.

Nick said...

This is the discussion we need to have, I think.

Arius said...

Fjordman, what follows is my contribution from my study of Jungian psychology.

My work is along the thread that there is a fatal flaw in the Western psyche caused by a terrible mistake in Christian theology on the problem of evil. It was obvious to the early Christians that there is evil in the world, but how is evil created if God is good? They could not accept the idea the God would create evil. After St. Augustine of Hippo evil was defined by Christian theology as the absence of good, the privatio boni. In the modern secular mind the religious form has been stripped away but the essence of the privatio boni survives in the unconscious. Go up to anyone in the West and ask if man is essentially good or evil. Everyone will say that man is essentially good. Modern man suffers under the unconscious inflation that he is a god (another very big topic that I will not expand on here) and has inherited the privatio boni solution that evil is not real and is only the absence of good.

Modern secular Western man thinks he is essentially good and pushes his evil potential into the unconscious. His consciousness is inflated by the illusion that it is essentially good which drives a righteous thinking morality that ‘my thinking cannot be wrong’. This thinking morality has driven his intellect into all kinds of excesses such as the many isms of the 20th century that massacred over one hundred million people (and modern man looks down his nose at the Inquisition?). His unconscious holds the evil potential that his consciousness will not acknowledge which can grab him by the back of his neck to be projected onto his neighbor (such as anti-Semitism, or most recently the Obama types calling opponents of government single payer health care “domestic terrorists”).

This is moderated in most of us by social conventions and religious belief but strongly manifests in those that have above average power over the rest of us such as in the Western elites. Modern secular Western man thinks he is a god. What is the first thing a god does when we awakes? He creates. The elites, in self identification with the good, with a righteous thought morality, and suffering from inflation that he is a god awakes to his god like power over others as he acquires his position of authority. Something must be destroyed in order to create so we should not be surprised that he tries to remake man. Even conservative politicians like George Bush fell into this trap (although to a lesser extent then Obama or Clinton).

If this analysis is even partially correct then the problems with our civilization that we are discussing is also in each of us. Fjordman is probably correct that Western civilization will suffer a massive discontinuity to set the stage for a possible renewal, but if the foundation of the renewal stands on the mistakes of the past then it will fail. A Christian based civilizational renewal must pick up the thread from the early Christians and face head on the problem and reality of evil. In modern parlance, we need to acknowledge the reality of both good and evil in the human psyche.

Charles Martel said...

My work is along the thread that there is a fatal flaw in the Western psyche caused by a terrible mistake in Christian theology on the problem of evil.

Liberalism is a malignant Christian heresy - pure and simple. There are no errors in traditional Christian thought regarding evil. Read liberalism is a sin by Fr. Felix Sarda Y Salvany. It will open your eyes. Additionally, read the Catholic Encyclopedia on altruism.

Make sure you get the 1914 edition which is posted online.

costin said...

Arius, very interesting. I have been watching 2 documentaries about Carl Gustav Jung a few years ago and I think that he is one of the most important thinkers of West's recent history and the one that is most underetimated. The 2 documentaries are Wisdon of Dream
and Matter of Heart
and his frankness, inteligence and nobility of sould are amazing. For those who are not familiar with Jung's ideas, these documentaries will be some of the best spent hours possible. His predictions coincide, in the general sense, with those of Fordman, but puts things in warmer/more intimate light.

He is not an easy read, especially in the age of ADHD, internet, blogs , articles that are notlonger than 1 and twitter, but he is one of those people to which I know I will sooner or later get back to and study.

Lombard1985 said...

I too, anxiously await your upcoming essay, Fjordman.

I am especially curious as to how you believe certain nations will act/react in the coming 5-10 years, particular the Big 5 of Europe*.

Quite frankly, I hope that when the shtf moment arrives in Europe, that the US is too bogged down in its own problems to bother anyone.

*For clarity's sake, I consider the Big 5 to be (in no particular order): Germany, Italy, France, Great Britain, and Russia.

Homophobic Horse said...

"I would rank Britain as the Western European country most likely to first get a civil war caused by mass immigration and Multiculturalism. "

We here in Britain have neither the inclination nor the physical means to fight a civil war, it is not even physically possible. Here's a salient point: there has not yet even been a single forcible conversion. Bare in mind that forced conversion was not unknown in Titoist Bosnia. It's still decades away before we see that in any Western country. Also I think the Netherlands is the only place where a significant though ultimately ineffectual tumult will take place after the public assassination of Geert Wilders.

"There will be a pan-Western and perhaps international economic and social collapse in the not-too-distant future."

I don't think there will be a collapse of any kind. An economic brick wall of worthless currency will only effect the economy and employment, the impact they have on society and culture is indirect. There will not be a social tumult because there is nothing to fight with as I have said, nor is there any way of motivating people.

I think the future is not collapse but a pressure cooker of oppression (sometimes open, sometimes hidden) and voluntary brainwashing fuelled by fear, all of this floating on a sea of violence and darkness.

PioneerPreppy said...

Europe needs to hold on. There will be an upheaval and a return to basic Christian values and then after the US has been secured my prediction is that we will return to free Europe. More than likely allied with a strong European leader who has been holding the hordes at bay.

The sleeping giant of European ancestry has been awoken here once again and it will not go back to sleep. this time it won't be some with mixed feelings it will be Irish-Americans, German Americans, Italians, French, and Nordic all united in one common cause to save the orginal homeland(s).

That is unless you do it first then OMG please come help us!!!!!

Arius said...

Charles Martel, you are right to say that "Liberalism is a malignant Christian heresy".

I am not sure how you are interpreting my previous post. I am not criticizing Apostolic Christianity, I am criticizing the Christian theology on the problem of evil that developed after around 300AD. The notion that evil is only the absence of good dominated Christian theology in the Middle Ages and continues to this day in the secular Western mind drained of its religious form. I think this is the foundation of the problem that we are facing in the West.

Gates of Vienna Watch said...
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Gates of Vienna Watch said...
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Monsieur Calguès said...

Fjordman, you accurately identified the main motive for their animus against us: simple jealousy. This is at least true of our non-white enemies. Our white marxist enemies hate us because they cannot abide inequality, even with their own civilization on top. And many want to destroy the West because of the extra power and prestige they think will accrue to them in a new world order. Most marxists are talentless mediocrities, and can only rise to the top by subverting the natural order and oppressing other people. Few of them can make it in a meritocracy since most have very little innate ability. This is why they gravitate to the gravy trains of government and bureaucracy.

The term 'genetic communism' you used is apt. Many non-whites resent whites for their physical beauty, which by consensus is the gold standard. They seek to exterminate us through violence and interbreeding.

kritisk_borger said...

Hmmm..... Sorry, but I don’t think we’re going to see any revolution type changes take place in Europe in the next five to ten years, and I definitely don’t see the likely hood of any civil wars breaking out in England, Denmark or France either. And I certainly don’t believe that the ‘people’ of Europe are going to drive the Muslim hordes out of the continent and ‘rid’ themselves of their diverse multiethnic populations. Depending on your point of view this is either wishful thinking or simply a delusion.

Yes, several people in the west are tired of the uncontrolled mass immigration into their continent, but there is a very long way between disagreeing with a certain set of policies, and taking to arms to actively stop these policies. Attempting to overthrow a democratic elected government is high treason, and in several countries the penalty for this is death. Even if some people tried to overthrow the government in their respective countries, they simply wouldn’t be strong enough to carry out such a feat and they would be dealt with accordingly by their governments.

If you are to believe the hype coming from America at the moment, the majority of the population are opposed to the new health reform introduced by Obama. Likewise the majority, again if you are to believe the hype, are fed up with illegal immigration. But up until now no one has actively encouraged the American people to rise up against the government because of this, or encouraged them to overthrow the government. As far as I know there haven’t been any armed encounters between angry Americans opposed to these policies and members of the authorities, nor do I think we’ll ever see any such encounters. People just tend to suck it up and get on with their lives.

If for some strange reason some group miraculously managed to get hold of weapons and prepare for armed combat, they would not manage to fly under the radar of the intelligence community long enough to go ahead with their plans. The current anti terror laws would also be used against them, and they would most likely rot away in solitary confinement for the rest of their lives.

Nor do I see the economy collapsing in the near future. The economy is on the way up, not on the way down.

The only way the current situation is going to change is if several right wing political parties end up getting more than 50 percent of the votes in several countries at the same time, and guaranteed government majority. Then tougher legislation can be introduced to mend some of the errors that have been allowed to go unfixed for too long. But things would have to be very bad for this to happen. The progress party only got 22 percent of the votes in Norway in the last election, even though things are pretty dismal in the country at the moment.

The sad fact is that there still exist large groups in every country in Europe that would never, under any circumstances vote for a right wing political party. Let’s just for arguments sake say that this number is at least 50 percent. Meaning that a right wing party would never be able to secure a majority vote in a national election.

Félicie said...

Arius, are you referring to a particular Christian denomination? As far as I know, Protestantism has, from the beginning, come down very hard on man's evil and depraved nature. It minced no words about the fact that man is inherently evil and it can become good only through the workings of grace. This is my understanding of the doctrine expounded by the Protestant writers that I've read, such as Luther, Calvin, and Jonathan Edwards. Admittedly, I am not a theologian and could be wrong. But I've always thougt that Christianity (at least, Protestantism) is unequivocal in ascribing evil to human nature.

The explaination of how God has allowed evil to exist is supposed to be that evil belongs to the aspect of the divine design that is not revealed to us.

Fellow Peacekeeper said...

Looking forward to the whole article Fjordman.

Incidentally 5-10 years is the time for a generation shift. The baby boomer (hippie) generation is now around 60-65 years of age and at the peak of their power and influence. The woodstock generation will be retirees one and all in a decade. Remember the pro-pc shift in the 90's as the WWII ("greatest") generation faded? Same shift coming away from the flower power kids. In the US, what will the kids that saw their country going down the gutter in the 70's post woodstck do with power? Just for bonus points that same generation came of age in the 70's boom of palestinian airline terrorism and the Red brigades.

Furthermore, the marxist's biggest rhetorical stick - WWII, Nazis and the holocaust - will finally slip from living memory to dead history in this same time span.

Interesting times.

British Democracy said...

I agree we wont see any revolution type shifts in Europe unless sadly we continue to be victims of terrorist atrocity.I sympathise with the view that the majorities in Europe may not be right wing but bear in mind that Nationalism is now being embraced in ever increasing numbers by indigenous secular socialists. It is their rightly held belief that the Socialist parties have betrayed them [Google Andrew Neather] and the depth of anger is deep . Betrayal is not easily forgiven.

Jocke said...

I'm certain that we are in the same situation now that Europe was in back in 1938-39. If Hitler would have been even more aggressive in 1938 and would have triggered the war already that year by attacking Czechoslovakia rather than reaching a diplomatic deal (to his advantage, true, but not the crushing demonstration that would have made the rest of Europe succumb to Germanys might without a fight) then Germany could have won the war even though its military might was far from its peak. Why ? Simply because the western allies were even less prepared for war then, psychologically not least.

What is happening today is that we do see a gradual awakening, that more and more people actually become convinced that the élites of the extreme left indeed does not want us any good at all, but rather seek to crush what they still see (suit and all) as a bourgeois society that must be destroyed by a revolution, no matter what costs in human lives.

The result of this realisation is a fundamental shift below the surface as more and more people see the present situation as impossible to maintain, which will increase people's preparedness for violence. This shift in the depths of the people will go on unnoticed as political correctness works both ways. Just as in the Eastern bloc our élites trick themselves into believing that they live in the best of worlds. So the snap will come even more sudden to them than to the people.

The actual trigger of the big earthquake could be anything. It could be a single shot fired by a policeman in a stress situation or an armed woman defending herself to avoid an attempted rape. It could be a political assassination, like in 1914, or another Mohammed cartoon. We just don't know, but we can all feel the tensions rising in Europe, a tiny notch every day.

When the war is finally on, those few extreme lefties will find themselves pretty much alone. Not even the islamists will trust them. Then the war will be fought along ethnic lines because we won't dare risk trusting anyone who looks like he/she belongs on the other side.

Homophobic Horse said...

"I agree we wont see any revolution type shifts in Europe unless sadly we continue to be victims of terrorist atrocity."

There has been no sign of anything like that in Thailand, which is a victim of continuous terrorist atrocities.

S'mon said...

Something big will happen around 2012, but I don't think the final denouement will be until around 2020-25.

Fellow Peacekeeper's generational point is interesting and insightful. There was a huge cultural shift in the early '90s, exemplified by that from Bush I to Clinton. Clinton, Bush II and Obama have maintained Baby Boomer (1945-1965) continuity, and here in the UK Cameron at least sounds like a baby boomer despite his youth.

But Generation X (roughly, 1965-1985) coming up is indeed disgusted with their Boomer parents. Currently they officially subscribe to Boomer ideology because they have to for their careers and wellbeing, but do they believe what their parents believe? There seems to be a lot of scepticism, though perhaps not enough of the necessary anger.

Crosshatch98@gmail.com said...

Will look forward to the essay Fjordman. I agree that there is a cultural tectonic shift occurring right now in Europe and the U.S but it won’t be drastic enough to effect a Civil War in any country – certainly not in this half of the century. I don’t think this is a West Vs the Rest phenomenon but a growing confrontation between the Northern Hemisphere (which is European and more economically dynamic) and the Southern Hemisphere: in effect the Third World. Every country in the Northern hemisphere has got a problem with organised immigrant aggression. From Moscow with its Muslim immigrant population of 2 – 3 millon which is hosting a violent Jihadist network (the murder of Fr Daniil Sysoyev being the latest incident): across to the highly aggressive Chicano irredentist movement in US cities like L.A.
And it’s this aggression that ordinary people are experiencing every day that’s the dynamic for the tectonic shift. What’s collapsing is the popular consensus particularly among the under 40s that enabled Multiculturalism to achieve hegemony in the last three decades. You’ll read it the scores of comments left on mainstream newspaper websites and in conversations where people who had previously been part of the vague leftist consensus now openly referring to these people.
I could be wrong about the prospects of civil war in the near future in January 1989 no-one (not even the CIA) would have believed the Communist bloc would collapse in the following three years. But what is certain is that most of the big urban centres in Northern Europe have been or will soon be abandoned by the native population. There’s no doubt that the riots and massed violence against the Police in Germany, Scandinavia and The Benelux states is designed to accelerate this process. The Wahibists envisage this is leading to a network of Sharia city states describing an Arc from Paris to Malmo but more likely will end in a series of wretched impoverished ghettos where life will brutish, nasty and lived at public expense.

Zeke said...

I don't know. It seems to me that Europe is far too far gone to save itself. The idea of civil war seems absurd.

The next generation is worse: more feminized, more globalized, more indoctrinated, more self-hating.

The right wing in the USA isn't much better. We're less organized but we do have some voices in the media.

We pulled off the 9/12 protest, maybe 300,000 people in Washington. What is the similar success of the right in Europe. (Not the "more right than the outright Communists who have been ruling for the last 20 years" right, but the actual right.) Perhpas Le Pen's runnoff a few years back?

Before an uprising there must be mass discontent, mass protest. None of this exists in Europe.

We in the USA may well do the same, but there is still some vitality in the USA.

But in Europe, I don't see it. I think you will take the bit and harnass the socialist/sharia masters force on you without too much complaint. You are a broken horse.

Nick said...

I spoke with one of my old teachers from school not long ago, and he warned me not to get into teaching, because the youngsters nowadays have no respect for anything, even themselves. Anyone living in the UK knows what he means. I can't see how the younger generation can ever bind together to achieve great things, or to stand up and fight for our society or way of life. They don't even know what those words mean - let alone have the inclination to defend it. I recently visited the Imperial War Museum in London. The thought of young people in the UK nowadays making a stand in anything like the same way as their grandparents did in WWII is quite difficult to imagine.

The idea of people not recognising evil is an interesting one. That idea may be worth considering very seriously. How can we stand against an evil ideology if there is no such thing to begin with? I think that maybe we need to dig deep to uncover such fundamental thoughts within the political elite's doctrines. That's where our real problems lie.

Frank Kitman said...
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Frank Kitman said...
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Old Atlantic Lighthouse said...

Great article and comments. Its very important to keep writing when it seems easy and obvious. This is especially true when one links in facts and data. Don't put it off because its so easy you can do it later. We need to push the time schedule. Writing is very important to that.

Ypp said...

Basing on some similarities, Fjordman thinks that Islam and the Left are the same. But Islam is neither the Left, Nor the Right. It is the thing in itself. Fjordman actually proposes to continue our internal Right-Left fight. Many on the Left, as well as on the Right, want to use Islam as a justification for their partisan struggle.

There are also many who wish to benefit from Islam. Bt they are not the reason, they are just passive participants.

Think, how many people, and on the Right too, support the struggle of the "Palestinians", and you will find the reason for the advance of Islam. It is on the surface. It is not a conspiracy. Some right-wingers, like Conservative Swede, who used to be a frequent commenter here, hates Christianity more than anything else. The reason for islamization is religious vacuum. And people like Conservative Swede, who helped to create that vacuum, did for islamization more than elitists in the government.

Old Atlantic Lighthouse said...

If young people know not to go in an area, then they know what is happening. There are atrocities committed on young people. They know that.

A generation can be sparked to come together. Germany in the 1920's seemed to have turned completely to nihilism and more so than any other country. Think of the film, art, quantum mechanics, psychology, etc. of the period. Then it changed quickly.

The Left knows this better than any. That is why they try to finish us off with immigration and not give us a chance. The desperation for a health bill to cover their third world people is an example of this.

Schumer is the most desperate for a health bill and is the most committed to 3rd world immigration. Things run together. Both sides see that.

Everything is drawn into this conflict and no step or aspect of society is not part of it. The Left has made that so clear, that it is obvious to our side as well, even the young. The Left made this total war. Everyone knows it.

Henrik R Clausen said...

I think the economic crash will be a very important factor in what is going to come.

Further, it will be a blessing in disguise.

Why?

Because it will make us differentiate between the productive among us and those who are not. Make that "Protestant work ethic" (which really is Catholic, but that's a long story) vs. submitting to moongod extortion.

Some defensive measures will be needed, though.

jeppo said...

"Genetic Communism"

Yes that's exactly what it is. The overthrow of the white bourgeoisie by the non-white proletariat. The worldwide enforcement of ancestry-based affirmative action.

Zeke said...

Ypp, you are right that Islam is neither right nor left. Islam is and always has been an enemy of both the West and Christianity (which not so long ago were one and the same).

Still in the USA the same destruction of the society is being accomplished without much effort by Islam. Sure every once in a while we have a Sudden Jihad Syndrome mass killing. But add all of the victims of Malvo and Hasan and a few others up and it's only a fraction of those who have died in the every day criminality of the black and latino thugs and gangs that increasingly rule segments of our society.

There is no one anyone can honestly say that Islam is 1/100th as big a threat to the future as Leftism is. The moslems are merely another tool in the leftist deconstruction of the USA, and not even the biggest one. The latino illegals are the biggest hammer in their toolbox.

Henrik R Clausen said...

There is no one anyone can honestly say that Islam is 1/100th as big a threat to the future as Leftism is.

Hey - what about me..?

I think you're underestimating just how scary Islam can be. I consider the Left to be the useful idiots of the Islamists, Iran being a brutal example.

rickl said...

From my perspective here in the U.S., I think that Leftism is a much more grave and immediate threat to my liberty and well-being than Islam is. We will not be able to seriously combat Islam until we first defeat Leftism.

The situation may be different in Europe. Certainly Muslims are more numerous and aggressive in Europe. But on the other hand, Leftism is also more entrenched there. It looks to me like Europe is worse off on both counts. Still, our American elites are trying very hard to catch up.

I believe that both Leftists and Muslims regard each other as useful idiots. Both want to bring about the destruction of Western capitalism, and each believes they can deal with the other afterwards. Leftists can be ruthless and murderous when they have absolute power. While Iranian Communists lost out to the Islamic Revolution there, I don't believe that Muslims fared well under the likes of Stalin or Mao.

AgentChameleon87 said...

I can't but feel that we pro-white western conservatives will be caught in the crossfires of a coming conflict between Islam and the Left. True that they are currently allies, as they both seek the deconstruction of white western civilization. But we also know they have different motives. Islam wants its Caliphate, while the Left wants its One World Socialist Utopia. Islam wants everyone to be Muslim. The Left wants everyone to be coffee-colored. And secular. This will lead to an inevitable clash between the two forces, when the West collapses, and the Left and Islam are fighting over the corpse. The question is, what will we surviving conservatives do? Take sides, pick the lesser of the two evils, or hide and hope they wipe each other out?

EileenOCnnr said...

Fjordman said: "I would rank Britain as the Western European country most likely to first get a civil war caused by mass immigration and Multiculturalism."

I, too, envision a coming civil war in Europe, but on a European scale. I've been picturing what would happen if one or more current member countries of the EU want out. It could be a repeat of the American Civil War, wherein some of the States wanted to secede, except with Muslim foreigners involved as well.

I hope I'm wrong because it would be very, very ugly indeed.

Wimbledon Womble said...

Fjordman's assessment of the US is wrong and right. He does not understand the US. While on a very tribalistic level, people want to live with their own kind (as Fjordman implies, an ethnic issue), in a larger commercial society what is important is acceptance of a common normative operation for society. In the absence of systems that reinforce baseline in-group/out-group thinking on the basis of physical features, people can indeed coexist IF they accept common values.

The problem is that Islam does not accept the values of the West.

I think on one level it is true that people prefer their own kind/color/etc., but this is actually a default position that is in and of itself superficial and fungible. You see complete acceptance in the US of "model minority" Asians born in the US who are American in their values.

While ideas of ethnic/racial purity may appeal to some, in the end the functioning and endurance of a society depends only on the acceptance of values, where no group can be called into question on the basis of ethnicities that might equate to subversive values. There is really only one group of ethnicities (as it is by no means one ethnicity) where this is a question. Islam. It is not ethnicity at all, but Islam itself. Those from Islamic nations are rightly suspect, on the grounds of statistics alone.

The hypocrisy of allowing other ethnicities to define themselves legitimately, while not allowing whites (an already highly diverse group to begin with that may not be reducible to something as simple as ethnicity), is acknowledged.

But if we are talking about a functioning society, ethnicity is not the issue. Culture is. Multiethnicity does work so long as multiculturalism is suppressed (e.g., strong incentive to assimilation are present). Ethnicity is not the issue. Culture is. Islam is not culturally compatible with the West, but apostates are.

We must stop all immigration from Muslim countries in the absence of real evidence that the immigrant is an apostate. So long as the immigrant really has cultural affinity for the West, there will be no problems. The problem is that we don't know that now.

Multiculturalism must be dissociated from any anti-ethnic or racist associations. Multiculturalism is the threat, not multiple ethnicities.

Wimbledon Womble said...

To put this another way, it is not ethnicity per se that is the threat at all. It is tribalism. Tribalism is both ethnic and ideological. The ethnic component is irrelevant. It is the ideological component that is problematic.

Multiculturalism is multitribalism, which means that we must accept alien creeds that hope to supplant out own.

The ethnic component must be dissociated from this, even if, as things stand, it still is. However, it is not the issue. The issue is the ideology that goes with tribalistic thinking.

The West could survive even if, through intermarriage, blonde hair and blue eyes went extinct, so long as those immigrants coming in completely and wholly accepted Western values. In fact, the fictitious concept of "white" glosses over the fact that Europeans are, in fact, genetically heterogeneous, both individually and in groups. There is much more heterogeneity amongst so-called whites that there is, say, among most African groups. This is not a bad thing. It is good. There is much to be said for hybrid vigor.

The problem facing the West is not an influx of people of different complexion but rather an influx of people with values that cannot be assimilated. While those who immigrate sometimes view the two as the same, this is not necessarily so, and we must distinguish between the two. Until we can do so effectively, perhaps we should declare a halt to immigration.

But if we could throw out simplistic concepts of multiculturalism and instead say we will accept those who are really desirous of being Western, and if we could distinguish between those immigrating because they want to be Western vs. those who want a better life materially yet retain their anti-Western culture, ethnicity would not be an issue. We must be mindful of this.

It is not ethnicity that is the problem. It is culture. We must make sure that those who come to our countries are committed to our culture. This could be evaluated effectively, but, in the present climate, it is not easy. We should work toward changing this, however, instead of arguing for some fictitious sense of purity. We are a species that is young, after all (all of us originating in Africa not so long ago), and the differences between us are much more ideological than ethnic.

rebelliousvanilla said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Baron Bodissey said...

rebelliousvanilla --

Gates of Vienna's rules about comments require that they be civil, temperate, on-topic, and show decorum. Your comment violated the last of these rules. We keep a PG-13 blog, and exclude foul language, explicit descriptions, and epithets. This is why I deleted your comment.

Use of asterisks is an appropriate alternative.

----------------------

rebelliousvanilla said...

Sadly, due to the EU becoming my country, instead of Romania and due to the cultural destruction that this will imply over time, I might have to move out of Europe. And I would have no problem with other ethnicities that share the same values with me, as long as I can discriminate and live with my own. I actually have no problem with minorities, as long as they're not shoved down my throat. Otherwise I can live in any multiethnic state without problems

Considering this, if Europe doesn't change, Singapore will be a better place to raise my children in. Since ethnic things don't matter, I don't see why I'd stay in Europe, after all. The culture is plagued by political correctness, so I don't get much out of it, the economy is a load of centrally controlled s*** and so on. Singapore was a swamp 40 years ago and now it's one of the greatest places on Earth. I'd prefer living there, if I wouldn't feel foreign. But if I feel foreign in Europe, who cares?

Also, Europe is the most crowded continent on Earth. We don't need more immigration, we need to do away with our welfare states and get people to work.

rebelliousvanilla said...

Oh, another thing. The differences are also ethnic. People of European descent have a higher IQ by 20 points than Africans and according to genetic studies, intelligence is one of the most heritable traits discovered yet. So it would matter if people with fair hair and light colored eyes disappear. I really don't get the mania related to genetic diversity. Finnish people have 2 male ancestors(probably a disaster killed all the other ones), yet Finnish people are far more intelligent than people of African descent, on average. Another thing, African people are prone to a lot of illnesses that have a way higher incidence in their background. The most inbred race on Earth are probably the Ashkenazi Jews, yet they have the highest intelligence on average.

I'd rather have my offspring cross-breed with Asians than with Africans, so moving to Singapore and as China develops move there, especially since SE Asia will be the area of the 21st century.

And about multiculturalism and wanting to live with your own. I traveled quite a bit, especially for my age and for example, I wouldn't be able to live in Dubai and not only due to the cultural fracture that is there. It's a nice place to visit for a holiday, but that's about it.

S'mon said...

rickl:
"While Iranian Communists lost out to the Islamic Revolution there, I don't believe that Muslims fared well under the likes of Stalin or Mao."

Numbers are of the essence in war, including Islam vs Leftism. In a Muslim nation, Islam wins. In a secular nation, the Left wins.

Of course, it's not total numbers that matter, so much as numbers of combatants, roughly 18-35 year olds. In europe, demographic change over time clearly favours Islam over the Left.

Note however that Leftists do *not* foresee conflict with Islam. Many envisage surrender to it - as the Swede said, "We must be nice to them so when they become the majority they'll be nice to us". They appear to envisage a kind of privileged Dhimmi status for themselves in the future Islamo-utopia.

rebelliousvanilla said...

War isn't a numbers game. I'm Romanian, I know that. We had so many battles in which the Ottomans outnumbered us 5 to 1 or 10 to 1 and we won or avoided defeat. Strategic thinking, logistics, combat skills are all of huge importance.

Europe will redraw it's borders. Spain seems doomed, for example. France seems doomed. I guess Europeans will move East and reborder. I don't know, it will be complicated in the future.

Natalie said...

Islam and the Left have a lot more in common ideologically than some of you would admit...

AMDG said...

Hi Fjordman,

Your proposal is fine by me. This cannot be repared, because the usual defense mechanisms of the population have been disabled. Only an economic crisis may wake up the citizenship.

I can give you a piece of information that shows the deepness of the damages. This year, amidst a terrible economic crisis, Spain has let in 400.000 inmigrants. We have an unemployment that will soon reach 20%. What will these immigrants do in Spain? I think that this fact should be enough to start a revolt. But nothing happens. For the moment being.

I also agree that we should expect nothing from the EE. UU. as a nation. The Yugoslav case shows it.

I look forward to reading the essay.

amdg

S'mon said...

"War isn't a numbers game. I'm Romanian, I know that. We had so many battles in which the Ottomans outnumbered us 5 to 1 or 10 to 1 and we won or avoided defeat. Strategic thinking, logistics, combat skills are all of huge importance."

Certainly, but just because 1 Romanian may be worth 5 Turkish slave soldiers, does not make numbers irrelevant. South Africa lasted longer than Rhodesia partly because South Africa had a lot more whites.

If 10 Romanian fighters are worth 50 or 100 Muslim fighters, but the Muslim birth rate is three times the Romanian, then the numbers will always go against you eventually.

Also, Lucullus' Roman legions could defeat the Asiatic armies of Mithridates or Tigranes 20 times their number in pitched battle, but only because the Asiatics chose to fight. Irregular warfare is a pitched battles are a different beast than irregular warfare, and something at which the Islamic world is much better skilled than the conventional variety.

okc.onsiterepair said...

In simple terms:

"Through oil we purchased the destruction of the fruit of the Renaissance."

Without the "Trillions" of monetary
units pouring into the middle east
we would not be faced with a dark philosophy
as spoken by Wafa Sultan
who had lived under Islamic Law
and had freed herself from its
insanity.

She went on to get a Phd.

Wafa's speeches should be made
required viewing for all the women
in the west no matter how much they hate men.

Women have been treated bad in the
past by men of all colors, it is
getting better but now is the
time to stand together.

They need to know what fate they
bestow upon their daughters.

Sharia is no joke.

Dhimmitude is no joke.

Honor Killings are no joke.

Go to youtube and watch the
videos of "Wafa Sultan".

Go to youtube and watch the
video "muslim demographics".

Some liberal guilt activists
say they have partial debunked
it but it is the same rags that
have been caught red handed
in a myriad of other lies.

We are facing a cultural
ARMAGEDDON.

Sharia = slavery of the non-muslim.

It is that simple.

This and much that is going on now
has been delivered to us intentionally.

The former KGB agent Yuri Bezmenov
explains in great detail the
process of demoralization, and
how it was planned, and why
the youth today seem like a ship
adrift with a moral compass
gone haywire.

Again, as I have said on other
forums under other names, what
we face was planned.

Economic and Cultural destruction
by design as foretold by
Charles Lindbergh Sr. long ago.

http://thurbersthoughts.blogspot.com/2009/01/was-charles-lindbergh-sr-prophet.html

The issues has only gotten worse
over the years, and deeper.

okc.onsiterepair said...

rebelliousvanilla said...

Considering this, if Europe doesn't change, Singapore will be a better place to raise my children in.

================================

Singapore is 15% islamic at last
check, I'd look further away.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Singapore

Claude said...

Jocke,
You're absolutely right. Passions will do the job.