Saturday, October 14, 2006

The Shape of Things to Come in Europe

Fjordman,

You have said that the countries of Western Europe are facing a civil war in the near future, fueled by the large mass of unassimilated immigrant Muslims which politically correct orthodoxy has allowed to accumulate.

I agree.

Clichy-Sous-BoisYou have said that we are probably seeing the first skirmishes of this war in the riots that have recently broken out in Brussels, Gothenburg, Windsor, and the banlieux of Paris. You see these as the beginning of what might be called the Multicultural World War.

I agree.

But, now that the war is starting, how will it unfold? Assuming that the native inhabitants of Europe do not simply lie down in the streets like good dhimmis and let the legions of the Prophet trample over them, what will come next?

Here are some meditations about the future of Europe.
- - - - - - - - - -
Aftermath of riots in FranceFirst of all, the will of Europe’s people will eventually be heard. In virtually every European country, public opinion is shaped, suppressed, guided, and stifled by government control of the media and the absence of laws which would permit truly free speech. A huge behemoth of bureaucratic inertia has metastasized into the European Union, and will continue this suppression in order to hold onto the levers of power and the trappings of privilege for as long as possible.

But popular discontent can only be held in check for so long, and will be all the more vigorous when it finally bursts forth. This will occur as more and more working-class neighborhoods succumb to the lawlessness of immigrant gangs acting violently and with impunity. Then people will want a change in public policy. As the violence and disorder spread to middle class neighborhoods, or even to the gated redoubts of the élites, electoral pressure for change will become inexorable.

This process is beginning already, as the recent election in Sweden shows. The parties that have up until now been marginalized by these élites as “right-wing extremists” — the British National Party, the Vlaams Belang in Belgium, the Dansk Folkeparti, and the Front National in France, for example — have grown increasingly popular in recent months, despite the opprobrium of the cognoscenti.

Eventually, when the situation gets bad enough, one or more of these “extremist” parties will gain power, either through an outright majority or through a majority within a center-right coalition. At that point the nationalist party gains the right to appoint its members to the key Defense and Interior Ministries (or their equivalents within a particular country).

Then comes a fork in the road.

In a normal, well-functioning democracy, the people’s will would in due course be carried out through its elected representatives. The ministers would give the orders, the functionaries in the ministries would obey, and the country would take action to defend itself and avert the rapidly looming catastrophe.

But are the European countries well-functioning democracies? Will the entrenched élites — all those with a vested interest in continuing the status quo of the existing Eurabian system — go gentle into that good night? Or will the members of the permanent bureaucracy, the media, and the upper levels of the academy fight tooth and nail to maintain their Multicultural hegemony?

The USA has a much milder case of the same deadly disease, but my experience here gives me little cause for hope about Europe. The media will mobilize to demonize, discredit, and delegitimize the new ruling government. The propaganda in the schools and universities promoting the Multicultural ideal will increase to a level that Göbbels would admire. The members of the bureaucracy, firmly adherent to the old system, will drum up scandal, release damaging information selectively, drag their feet when carrying out the new policies, and in general do whatever they possibly can to thwart the will of the newly-elected leaders.

In effect, there will be a cultural civil war. To suppress the renascent nationalists, the adherents of the existing power structure will mobilize any available assets, including their immigrant allies.

However, the will of the people can never be suppressed indefinitely. It will prevail. If it cannot proceed through the legitimate pathways of a democratic state, it will go around them. In effect, the rule of law will be suspended.

Once that happens, things will get ugly, with no guarantee of public order or the security of civil society.

We all hope this doesn’t happen. We hope that those in the entrenched ruling class will place the interests of their people above their own hold on power. But history holds out scant reason for optimism in such situations.

Europe can wake up now, or it will be jolted out of its slumber later by a knock on the door. Waiting on the other side is an armed man in a uniform, a man of firm purpose, having no qualms and no scruples. He is ready to act at a moment’s notice, and with absolute ruthlessness.

72 comments:

James said...

No one's converted me yet! Although I suppose you have to be something to start with, rather than simply admitting you don't understand the world. Let's hope that the Christians and Muslims all kill each other! Check out my blog if you have time:

islandphilosophy.blogspot.com

Cato said...

james - does anyone care?

Anyway, back on topic:

Baron, "the will of the people" can easily turn ugly, too. That's why the thing our founders dreaded most was actual "democracy", although the word is tossed around these days with no regard as to its historical meaning.

Its not often that people take to the streets to demand responsible representative government (parts of the old "Eastern Europe" being an exeption) The only strong alternative to the leftist elites in Europe may turn out to be the the old-time nativist parties. Just where does that leave the Jews of Europe? between the devil and the deep blue sea, that's where.

Baron Bodissey said...

Cato, I couldn't agree with you more. That's why I hope Europe wakes up sooner rather than later.

Muslims will be at the top of the list, followed by Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Chinese, Africans.... IOW, the usual suspects.

turn said...

I've commented before that an incident or uptick in 'slammi violence will provoke a rage in native Europeans that police and National Guard equivalents will be unable to quell.

As the citizenry see the abject failure of their governments to perform the most basic function--keeping the people secure--the folks will take matters into their own hands.

The sooner the better.

I've often heard it said that Euros don't have the testicular fortitude to fight for themselves. (Haven't we read that sperm counts are 'down' in the last 15-20 years?)

So let's start adding some much-needed testosterone to all non-halal foodstuffs. Can't hurt. Maybe even reverse the pitiful population trends.

Peter UK said...

There two strand emerging as of now,people are disconnecting from the existing institutions,fewer and fewer vote in elections,many governments do not have a real mandate.Swathes of society are turning away from the established churches,many are voting with their feet and emigrating,the ruling elite are being stranded in a sea of indifference.
Secondly,in their eagerness to placate the Muslim communities the ruling elite is already throwing the Jews to the wolves.

Fjordman said...

Baron: A rather likely scenario, unfortunately.

Yes, the reason why I talk about The Multicultural World War and civil wars in Western Europe, not just deportation of sharia sponsoring Muslims, is that not all the native non-Muslims will fight against Muslims, but against us Islamophobes. Some of them really believe their own propaganda about Islamophobes being Fascists, and the poor Muslims being just like the Jews in Nazi Germany. Even more of the Multiculturalists will fight not so much for Muslims as for preserving their own Multicultural fantasies, where us evil Westerners are the snake threatening to upset their Utopian Paradise.

They simply can't bear to admit that they were wrong, and have nearly destroyed their own countries by living a lie. Besides, some of them hate the capitalist, Judeo-Christian West above all else and will actively assist in bringing about it's demise.

And then there will be some of the elite groups who will fight for the above mentioned reasons, but also for preserving their own power and prestige, which is tied to the Multicultural ship that is now sinking.

Always On Watch said...

From the above comment by Fjordman:

Some of them really believe their own propaganda about Islamophobes being Fascists, and the poor Muslims being just like the Jews in Nazi Germany.

I know that such is the thinking. But it's just so surreal to me.

Western anger is building in Europe. But I fear that the anger won't become hot enough, fast enough.

Will the same happen in the United States? I don't know, but I do know that there is an undercurrent of anger here on the part of Americans. And even if the United States were not to have such a clash, we would become isolated were Europe to become Eurabia.

Serious article here. Sobering, really.

Mr. Spog said...

Cato et al. -- At least in some countries, another alternative (to leftist elites and to nativist parties) may be a coup by conservative military elites. In this connection it seems interesting that the head of the British Army has just stated that the Army is underpinned by "Judaic-Christian tradition". He also speaks about a "covenant" between the army and the nation that is being broken.

Scott said...

That new British Army commander who
raised eyebrows with his comment on
pulling his troops out of Iraq was
interviewed again on the BBC Radio 4 Today show. I didn't listen but
some who did said General Dannett
implied British troops may have to
be deployed to the streets of the
UK to battle Islamofascists there!

As to Hindu, Commonwealth blacks or
other non Muslim immigrants I don't
get a sense in discussions with the
folks in Britain that they see them
in anything like the same light as
Muslims. Yes, blacks, inevitably,
are involved in a disproportionate
share of crime, and so do generate
negative comments on UK discussion
boards but they are not nearly as
reviled as Muslims. In fact, I have
seen some UK blacks denounce both
the conduct and numbers of muslims
flooding into Britain.

Indian Hindus are viewed as the
'model minority' in Britain as they
excel in school and, unsurprisingly
given their own history, voice the
same negative opinions of Muslims
as the average British bloke. Their
biggest worry is that they might be
mistaken for Muslims by local chavs
and hoodies. In fact, the other day
a Christian Indian family had their
house vandalized by some idiots who
can't tell the difference.

That worry aside, I don't think the
bulk of people in the UK are going
to turn on blacks, Jews or Hindus
if worse comes to worse. They are,
afterall, allies when it comes to
countering the Islamofascist threat.

Rob Spear said...

According to the Social Affairs Unit here, Labour is ordering an "all out war" on Islamism, and therefore attacking the Tories from the right. This just means a cultural war, but it is a big turn around for Labour, and it'll be interesting to see what the Tories do in response.

Zerosumgame said...

Maybe James was a little crude, but I have to admit that I am not exactly feeling sorry for Europe myself -- not after their murdering 6 million Jews and now doing their utmost to help their Islamofascist friends nuke 6 million more and probably finish off Jews and Judaism once and for all.

Whether Islamofascists or Eurofascists prevail, one thing is for certain -- they will take it out on whatever Jews remain.

OK, you have my monomaniacal posting for the day.

Zerosumgame said...

Baron, Fjordman:

On another note, why is it considered out of the realm of possibility that a military takeover might occur in some European nation if order continues to break down?

Yes, I understand that the top generals have to be politcally "vetted" so that (outwardly at least), they back the politically-correct, far-left, mulitcultural line.

But what is to ultimately prevent a colonel, bridgadier general or the like, who is fed up with the breakdown of law and order from using troops to seize power and declare martial law?

I understand in France that about 15% of the Army is Muslim, but the percentage in elite units I would think is much smaller, and they could kill the Muslims soldiers or confine them to barracks before a coup. And my understanding is that a coup was indeed attempted in 1958 and seriously considered in 1968, so this is not out of the realm of possibility in France.

In other nations, where Muslims make up a smaller portion of the Armed Forces, this should not even be a major factor.

Yorkshireminer said...

One of the interesting results of the Belgium elections has been the trend to more and more polarisation Vlaams Belang, ( Flemish Interest) lost Antwerp for EVER. Filip De Winter has admitted it, more immigrates are coming to Antwerp each year and more and more Belgians are leaving it for the countryside. I have followed the Belgian municipal elections fairly closely living just across the eastern boarder in Holland. What has been covered up or was tried to cover up was the fact that more Belgians voted for Vlaams Belang than ever before. The media tried to cover it up by mentioning the Fact that Government parties lost votes not that Vlaams Belang won votes. Vlaams Belang made good inroads into the the established vote in Hasselt but because they didn't win a majority they were not mentioned. This is happening all over Europe as the indigenous populations flee the main cities because of the muslim invasion. This can be seen in the increase in house prices outside of all the cities, Denmark is a good example house prices are rising much faster in South Zealand than in Copenhagen as the middle class flee that beautiful city. Polarisation is a word that means drawing the battle lines. I agree with Fjordman that a clash between western values and Islam is inevitable. To me it is not a question of when and how, but where, will it be in Europe or will it be in the middle East. If it happens in the Middle East then Europe will be saved the blood bath which I think Fjordman and myself fear. A withdrawal of American and British troops out of Iraq would be the best the way of causing an implosion of Islam. Saudi Arabia would be very worried about Shiite dominance of the oil fields of Southern Iraq which would result in an Iraqi civil war which would be result of the withdrawal of western troops. They would certainly support their Sunni brothers in Iraqi, this would certainly benefit the arms merchants of the west bringing the balance of payments in both counties a little better into balance. All America would have to do is to even handedly make sure that oil supplies from both combatants were able to reach the open market . A couple of battle fleet in the gulf would ensure this, Iran would definitely not dare to attack America for fear of that America would cut off their oil supplies to the free world and so reduce their income and there ability to wage war. The Gulf States would certainly support an American shield. Oil prise would fall as each combatant tried to pump as much oil as possible to pay for the war. The Saudis would be forced to curtail their support for the Jihad in the west, less money for CAIR and the building of mosques, and as they ran short of money for the support of Iraq they would have to liquidate the nest egg they have built up in the west.

Iran, of cause is the loose cannon, as the first law of politics is to retain power when you have gained power, and one would assume that this was also true for the theocracy in Iran, then one assumes that they wouldn't do anything stupid. Stupidity of cause can be arranged, a deniable attack on Mecca and Medina when Iran was in a dire position would of cause mean the end of Iran and the Mardi and of cause Islam. America could of cause decide who won and how long the war lasted because they would control the the middle ground the gulf.

If this does not happen, then Europe is headed for civil war. The question is where is the point of no return the turning point where Europe tips into chaos, have we passed that point now, are we waiting for some idiot to light the match, the way Josef Pricip lit the match for the first World War by shooting the Heir to the throne of the Austro Hungarian Empire. The only thing you can guarantee is that it will be very bloody. The unifying effect will be that it will be not a war between European counties but a war between Europe and Islam. The E.U. Will certainly suffer and perhaps crumble, but perhaps N.A.T.O. Will emerge as the unifieing factor. The only thing that I am certain of is; if there is a European civil war then Britain will be the first to emerge from this civil war. Geography dictates it, An uprising in Britain would be easily contained because the fleet either the British Fleet or the American Fleet could stop supplies to Islamitic insurgents and the trend towards polarisation and Ghettoisation will mean that Islam has no defence in depth.

Zerosumgame said...

Has anybody here considered the possibiliity that a full Islamic uprising in Europe might wait until Iran (or some other Islamic state) has the bombs and missiles to threaten Europe?

In that way, WHEN the Islamists rise up to seize power, the Iranians can threaten to obliterate any nation that tries to put Islam down.

And yes, that includes nuclear powers France and the UK, which seem to have become so dhimmified, that they would choose surrender to Islamofascism over mutual nuclear annihilation.

Yorkshireminer said...

Dear Zerosumgame,

the answer is yes, France even changed the co-ordinates of it rocket on its nuclear submarines at the beginning of this year to accommodate an Islamic threat. Even America will not allow atomic blackmail of Europe. Iran can do what it likes, but if it carry s it out it Tehran is a radioactive parking lot.

Econ-Scott said...

Fjordman:

Europe is a long long way from civil war. Tho lots of Rioting and ethnic violence right around the corner.

Before you can have a war their have to be people who are not only willing to fight, but well organized to do so in a sustained way, otherwise you just generally have convulsions of rioting burning looting and murder.

Those who visited "Irish" areas in the 1970's to the 1990's in Boston, New York, San Francisco and Chicago, understood something about successfully sustained "Guerilla movements".

Funding, -- Any Irish pub in the west was a fundraising location,

Sanctuary,--- Ireland, U.S., Canada, t Maybe Australia, maybe South Africa

Ideology, Planning, Command & Control, -- Catholic areas of Belfast, Londonderry (Derry), Ulster, Falls Road

Training, Recruitment, Weapons Procurement -- Anyone willing to help including Ghadaffi, and the Father of the Chinless Opthamologist in Syria.

You had Irish all over the world who identified with this essentially 800 year confilct between Catholic Irish and Anglican and Presbyterians... and were willing to help ...

In this tiny space called N. Ireland.

It was a "dirty-war" but the types of bombing to kill as many civilians as possible ala the middle east, was avoided, 3,600 dead ten times wounded.
The British still hasn't found the most significant weapons caches including over 3 tons of Ghadaffi Semtex which has an indefinite shelf life.

As I see it, Culture war, lots of moaning. Europe will collapse when the Muslims ghettos begin smuggling & caching large stores of Small arms and explosives.

The people aren't prepared (except for Switzerland's Citizen army) The EU militaries don't want to get chewed up and smeared in the press over "Domestic law enforcement & riot Control",

The Policians ? Well looks pretty Corrupt for our side of the pond.

The European Politicians -- as always the real problem.

If think you are going to have a civil war in the EU, you'd better start organizing, fund raising, and all that other stuff you need for a sustained effort.

Baron Bodissey said...

Zero,

On another note, why is it considered out of the realm of possibility that a military takeover might occur in some European nation if order continues to break down?

That's exactly what I mean. When the rule of law breaks down, the armed man in the uniform will be waiting to take control. But after that, all bets are off -- sorrow and slaughter might pay yet another visit to Europe...

Zerosumgame said...

Baron,

I guess your reference was a little too vague for someone like me with a technical background.

Do you think we're all English majors here? ;)

Baron Bodissey said...

Zero --

Actually, I was a math major, if you can believe it.

I just like to express myself in florid and figurative language. It's a hobby I can indulge in at length in my blogging. ;)

Econ-Scott said...

My Dear Baron Bodissey, Your Eminence:

Are you the Baron Bodissey from "The Thirteenth Majestral"

or the Baron Bodissey from "The Killing Machine and "The Face"

?

Baron Bodissey said...

Econ-Scott --

I am Unspiek, Baron Bodissey, author of Life, presently resident in the Alastor Cluster, but soon to return to Old Earth on Institute busines.

I plan to stop in at a tavern on the way, in order to enjoy a platter of jellied eels with broiled sea snails and a tankard of ale.

It's a good life. ;)

Econ-Scott said...

My Dear Baron Bodissey:

Where politics intersects economics.

This Whole EU Civil War thing seems pretty far fetched.

A coupe ... well maybe.

Small scale militia's during periods of civil unrest, armed neighborhood watch groups in violation of the EU civilian arms laws etc. etc.
Armed gangs, ... Yes, probably some of that going on now.

Civil war would take a couple of things, but most of all, Money... and cooperation of politicos who know how to keep the beauracracy and the money running.

France, Germany, Britian, Italy, Baltic states,

... it's not Chile in the 1970's.

EU's a Big Economy that's internationalized.

I could see things breaking down to civil rioting in an uncontrolled way, and perhaps a Part of the Armed forces seizing power. But you aren't going to see them using the airforce to shoot up the Elysee Palace and execute the sitting president. (like Pinochet)

btw -- If it wasn't for (Milton Freedman and the Chicago Boyz) Pinochet would now be remembered as the destroyer not the saviour of Chile.--

Because the French and British population are essentially dis-armed. The only civil war shooting possible that could actually go on will be different Units of the armed forces. (and some criminal gangs).

Not likely.

Yes, I know there are those that would love to see millions herded on to cattle ships, cruise ships anything that floats ships and send 'em back to North Africa ---

-- but it just isn't going to happen, (as much as it would solve some immediate concerns.)

Econ-Scott said...

My Dear Baron:

There is one possibility of civil insurection out of control.

The aftermath is probably unthinkable for the EU politicos.

It would probably start from celebratory rioting in the Muslim ghettos after either multiple "dirty bomb" attack or actual multiple WMD or say, even multiple nuke in a truck attacks.

Now THAT would mean the EU armed forces would also be in a state of shock and panic.

Even tho Gov. Pete Wilson ordered National Guard units to L.A. w'in 4 hours of Rodney King Riots erupting, it took essentially 4 days to get them completely assembled and S Central LA under control. and that was just S Central LA and only 4000 National Guards & Marines.

next comtemplate in France, Major multiple "Dirty Bomb" or WMD attack, along with the muslims & their 1,000 car a night torch jobs.

And civilians will likely start to torch the Muslim ghettos, and then you have 6-10 million mad as hell muslims, the armed force slow to react, or joining with the civilians.

2-4 weeks later, its not the EU but the Eeeeeew, stinking up Europe with no place to house the angry muslims.

I'm thinking that's going to be Osama's and the Muslim Brutherhoods next "attempted" ploy. Big time Chaos from really big multiple "dirty" bombs ...

... OBL did declare war on Fwance last summer when the Algerian Terrorist orgs pledged loyalty to Al Q.

They need something right now, even the Arab "faithful" are making jokes about them... so I'm believing they go for dirty bombs next if they can get any kind of nuke material (Cs batteries, etc)

So, I think right now, the softer targets are the ones with Islamic sanctuary and cover, France, Britian, Belgium, Netherlands, maybe Italy, Maybe Baltic States, distantly related Dearbornistahn or Chicagoistahn.

Short run:
Look for 1) more intrusive EU survilliance (in violation of their own laws) 2) Lots more big raids on little apartments 3) Long detentions without trials

Fellow Peacekeeper said...

the softer targets are the ones with Islamic sanctuary and cover .... maybe Baltic States

Dude, there are less than 1000 practising muslims in all three of the Baltics. Did you maybe mean the Balkans?

On another note, why is it considered out of the realm of possibility that a military takeover might occur in some European nation if order continues to break down?

That's exactly what I mean. When the rule of law breaks down, the armed man in the uniform will be waiting to take control. But after that, all bets are off -- sorrow and slaughter might pay yet another visit to Europe...


If in any case law and order breaks down then all bets are already off and slaughter and sorrow are already there. Anyway, ail the great idealistic repressions of the 20th century have been the products of civilian leadership or revolutions, not takeover by existing militaries.

Vol-in-Law said...

"a coup was indeed attempted in 1958"

Which was successful, and installed deGaulle in power.

"Dude, there are less than 1000 practising muslims in all three of the Baltics. Did you maybe mean the Balkans?"

He means Denmark, Norway, Sweden & Finland I'd guess.

Re situation in UK, black-white relations are much better than in USA, the violent crime rate disparity is similar (black rate 6-8 times white rate) but most whites don't seem to mind much; it did cause white police animosity towards blacks but the cultural-Marxist politicisation of the police has countered that. Black areas are cooming under pressure from expanding Muslim areas which has caused fighting.
It does seem that the government is moving away rapidly from its previous promotion of the radical Islamists, and the only attacks on General Dannatt's coments on our JudeaoChristian values came from the far left, eg London's Mayor Livingstone. While it's too early to say, it does look like many of the Elite may be moving away from their support of radical Islam in its attack on British society, and this may give some hope that the darkest predictions can be prevented from materialising. That said, there are plenty of contrary voices even in the Conservative leadership who are eg promoting burka-wearing and attacking anyone who criticises it.

Archonix said...

Eu Referendum has covered General Dannettt's words in more detail than any of the press. Before Defeat Becomes a Rout.

The long an the short of his letter is that British policy in Iraq is to withdraw. Our armed forces are so badly equiped and so hobbled by politically motivated rules of engagement that they're actually making things worse by their presence. EU Referendum has been covering this problem of a lack of decent equipment for a long time now (whilst bewailing the media's inability to produce any sort of intelligent coverage of the situation).

Zerosumgame said...

Assuming that the native inhabitants of Europe do not simply lie down in the streets like good dhimmis and let the legions of the Prophet trample over them,

Baron,

The more I thought about this, the more I realized that this IS what the overwhelming majority of Europeans will do. I say that for two reasons:

1) They have been brainwashed by 60 years of Marxist Multiculturalism to believe there is no right and wrong, no good to their culture, and therefore, nothing to fight and die for.

2) With such low birthrates, you have huge numbers of households with no children, and thus no worries about offspring having to live in an Islamic Europe. Even those with just one kid will probably find some way to get the kid out to America, Canada or Australia when the time comes. Thus, most Europeans over 40 just hope that this Islamist takeover holds off long enough so that they are dead or old when it happens.

james higham said...

What you say is so, Baron but what must be added, or at least seen through the filter of, are the 3rd and 4th players in the global catastrophe. 3rd is China and 4th is the Finance, based in Bavaria and Paris, with subsidiaries everywhere. The 3rd is acting for itself, the 4th for global conflagration and the reduction of the world's population. The evidence is there for all to see who seek.

eatyourbeans said...

Well, finance has its own dream: A peacable world where everybody is too busy buying things to make trouble. Move over, Christ, move over Marx, all men will be brothers at Walmart. But I have too much faith in fallen, corrupt human nature to fear that ever happening. They had their best chance in t

Whatever happens, the elites who made this mess will hang, either by their own people,or by those they foolishly and cynically let into Europe. Good.

eatyourbeans said...

Please add to the last sentence in the middle paragraph:

..in the late 90s.

Sorry for my clerical error.

Spanish diplomat said...

Thank you all for giving me a bad day! Civil wars, military take overs, dirty bombs, etc?
We don´t know yet what will happen. Even if it happens at all...
Thinking about how will things turn out, when the time comes might have some use, but I think it´s better now to focus in the what to do. I right here I believe the important thing is to keep spreading the word and try to help the people wake up to the threat and its consequences.
If enough people wake up, then, perhaps even our untrustworthy politicians may actually do something before it´s too late.
Some 6-7 years ago there were very serious anti-immigrant incidents in a village -El Ejido- in southern Spain. The popular backlash agains Moroccans (and only them, NOT the others) begun after a Moroccan was arrested under the accusation of raping a local woman and killing her. Apparently, that was the detonant of a massive and bloody attack by local people on Moroccans in their neighbourhood. The mayor stood by his people and he is still the mayor of El Ejido: there is no prospect of him been unseated for the time being.
I don´t believe everything is going to happen the way we want. And actually if events turn out the way you describe, then I think it is rationally best for your family to simply migrate to safer lands. But I believe this example could, perhaps, be a good one of how thing might also develop if our leaders remain attentive.

Asger said...

Vol-in-law,

While it's too early to say, it does look like many of the Elite may be moving away from their support of radical Islam in its attack on British society, and this may give some hope that the darkest predictions can be prevented from materialising.

Same here in Denmark, most of the politicians are against islamic fascims. Actually, the problem is the media, the schools, and the police - they are still covering up, and talking about multiculturalism. Perhaps in while the new view on Islamic fascims will sift down through society and institutions. When it hit the schools it will be interresting.

Scott said...

Archonix, I read EU referendum on
General Dannetts remarks and don't
disagree with him that the British
( like the US ) don't have enough
forces around Basra ( 7200) to make
a difference so their presence is
not useful.

However General Dannett's remarks
went beyond Iraq and mimic a lot of
what has been said here on Europe's
future.

He has stated that the UK is under
assault by Islamofascists seeking
to forcibly convert an unwilling
nation to Islam. It is this threat
he wants to battle not attempting
the conversion of a Islamic nation
to liberal democracy, a notion he
finds beyond his ability.

Wish that our president would come
to the same conclusion. Islam is
incompatible with Western democracy
and as noble as the presidents goal
may have been we have done what we
needed to do in Iraq. Verifiably
disarmed that nations military and
removed the dictator from power.

Time to withdraw from Baghdad and
al Anbar province and move up into
the Kurdish north and prepare to
move on the next target... Iran.

ScottSA said...

First law of backlash: The longer it takes the more thorough it will be.

Second law of backlash: Social backlash need not be violent.

Third law of backlash: Cultural or racial backlash is always and everywhere violent.

Fourth law of backlash: Backlash is usually misdirected. In the same way as the backlash against political radfem ought to have addressed the much greater issue of social feminization, the growing backlash against Islam ought to be against a much larger target.

I fear much ink is being spilled in vain and the search for allies cast too far afield in this war of culture. It is of course necessary to change the current focus from some amorphous concept of 'terrorism' to 'Islamic terrorism', but this is a simple corrective to take us from a ridiculous farce to something approximating reality. Obviously the enemy must be named before it can be beaten, and clearly the immediate enemy is Islam, but Islam will be beaten.

And then what? What about western society? I'm afraid it will be a hollow victory paid for by our own Europe ethnicity and culture, and we will still be cowed into multicult submission by the Damocles Sword of the term 'racism'. Our newfound allies: Asians, Orientals and Africans, will be by then the inheritors of western society, and western society will not survive the conquest. It is a stark and unpopular truth, but it is the truth.

Mystery Meat said...

If there is a civil war, it won't be short and it won't be inexpensive. Civil society will be destroyed for a generation, if not longer. Think what the collapse of the financial/social/political systems would affect you and your family's well-being.

Work hard to educate your fellow citizens to the Islamic/Multicultural menace. Elect politicians with backbone. Stop Muslim immigration; expell jihadi Muslims and their supporters. Fjordman's proposals are a good place to start.

Never believe that appeasement or dhimmitude will make the problem go away. If you want peace, prepare for war. (Si vis pacem, para bellum.)

We owe it to ourselves and our civilization to give our very best shot to settling this problem POLITICALLY before rolling the dice on civil war.

ps- some of the commenters are correct. The radical left will likely join the jihadis to make common cause to crush capitalism and destroy the West.

Vasarahammer said...

The most significant part of PC multiculturalism is the fact that it limits the range of acceptable opinion so much that those that are opposed to the PC multiculturalist doctrine are effectively silenced by labeling them racists or bigots. If you are a certified racist or bigot, you don't have a place in public debate. You can also be put to trial for hate speech, which is probably one of the reasons Fjordman still uses a pseudonym.

The same phenomenon also exists in the US to a lesser extent.

Finland is a special case in Europe. While the ex-communist countries have largely avoided the muslim mass immigration, Finland was, at least nominally, part of Western Europe during the Cold War.

In the 80's Finns were vilified in the Nordic council for not accepting enough refugees as immigrants were mostly called in those days.

Today Swedish Democrats in Sweden demand that Sweden should adopt Finnish style immigration policy.

There are various reasons why Finland has avoided massive muslim immigration. One of them is certainly the remote geographical location but there are also other aspects.

There is certain slowness in adopting the trends that prevail in other European countries. It can be argued that Finland is, at least, 20 years behind Sweden in terms of immigration related issues.

In the next election Jussi Halla-Aho (http://jussi.halla-aho.com/vaalit.html) is standing up as a candidate for Finnish Parliament with anti-PC multiculturalist platform.

The aim of the caimpagn is to raise the issue so that the problems caused by muslim mass immigration can be avoided and that the same mistakes made in other European countries are not repeated here.

Econ-Scott said...

Fellow PeaceKeeper:

Probably a mistake in nomenclature. While "Scandanavian" countries are not typically referred to as "Baltic" states, (Lithuania, Latvia) Sweden Norway Finland Denmark are in fact on the Baltic, and their Muslim Ghetto cities are as bad as any in France.

The rise of any kind of "Christian" Europe vs. Muslims in a Coupe, Military takeover, or otherwise first will require Christians.

Other than a few protestant evangelical sects, you won't find large segments of people in the EU Save Germany and parts of the U.K. who actually Know the faith, their scriptures, or actually practice it on a daily/weekly basis. Most people polled in France will in fact identify as Roman Catholic, ...

... and once or twice in their life they actually attended a service.

They have been effectively secularized, emasculated as far as spiritual matters or identity.

If you want to save Europe, send Christian Missionaries and people to pray for a spiritual Christian revival of the EU.

All those historic churches and Cathedrals, -- essentially empty.

A military takeover is possible but unlikely,

Instead, I would expect lot's of muslim rioting and counter rioting, lots of police actions, lots of raids on small apartments, Ever more oppressive laws,

... and a kind of White Flight to the United States, Canada, Australia, and to a far lesser degree, New Zealand (if you're a farmer with money).

Any EU Military action will look like the Rodney King L.A. Riots -- slow response, days of burning slums, lots of deaths, short total curfews, followed by more empty promises by Progressive Socialists.

Redux with worsening results and weapons.

I fully expect there soon to be BIG BIG gun running operations on the Black Market into the Muslim Ghettos.
The immigrants with contacts are all in place, the motivation, crime and money are there.

We may all be surprised. As conditions worsen, people may out of desperation, reach for historic Christian orthodox faith.

And sanity may, ... may, return to public life and policy in Europe.

DocNeaves said...

Vasarahammer-
It has already been suggested by the Global Warming Nuts that anyone who speaks against Global Warming be arrested and charged with hatespeech, or other crimes. In other words, any dissent is illegal, since THEY, above all others, know the real truth. Such is socialism now, such has it always been. This is why we vote against it, in all it's forms, for as long as we have the right to vote, because a vote for socialism is a vote against the right to vote.

Asger said...

Assuming that the native inhabitants of Europe do not simply lie down in the streets like good dhimmis and let the legions of the Prophet trample over them

Perhaps countries will act in manners aacording to local tradition - but I know for certain that it is not going to happen here en Denmark. Actually things are getting organizied as we speak. I think the resistance will try to cooperate with the official institutions as much as possible - to avoid confrontation.

The resistance will probably have political as well as action groups - in order to have as much influence as possible.

Janos Hunyadi said...

Many excellent posts here, reflecting a very pereptive unerstanding of the difficult future the West faces: a non-stop assault from Without & Within: from Islamic militants inside and outside Europe and North America, and from the multi-culti left ( especially those in govt and the 'victim industry' )

We are already at war, not just in Afghanistan and Irag but in the sreets of French and English cities: people are dying and being wounded every day, and all of us in the West are under constant propaganda assault every day. All of us risk our jobs and personal safety if we speak out publicly against the enemy we face, and many of us who are no longer 'men-at-arms' in an actual battlefield have suffered significant losses because of our struggle.

In speaking about the existence of over a million of slaves in the Southern states in the early 1800s, Jefferson used the term "firebell in the night": African slaves in the American South were a looming danger which he believed would soon explode

The presence of large and growing Muslim immigrant minorities in most of western Europe, along with the presence of a large leftist-dhimmi minority in the West an even more threatening 'alarm in the night'. This true 'axis of evil' cannot be placated or bargained with.

Anyone reading the above threads should come away with several good ieas about What Must Be Done. Do what you can in your own lives, and try to spread the word to others.

You've seen what will happen if we fail

Zerosumgame said...

scottsa said:

Fourth law of backlash: Backlash is usually misdirected.

Zero's corollary to the fourth law:
In Europe, that backlash is inevitably misdirected against Jews.

PGP said...

Strengthen and Enforce Sedition Laws.
The preachers of sedition are the imams and mullahs who should be held accountable without hestitation. Treat the thugs and organizers of islamic militants as Organised Crime groups and make the entire group responsible for any crime committed by any member of the group.

Zerosumgame said...

pgp said:

Strengthen and Enforce Sedition Laws.
The preachers of sedition are the imams and mullahs who should be held accountable without hestitation. Treat the thugs and organizers of islamic militants as Organised Crime groups and make the entire group responsible for any crime committed by any member of the group.


Silly white Canadian male --

Don't you know the only clergy held accountable for spewing hate are Evangelical clergy who oppose gay marriage?

Van Helsing said...

The media will mobilize to demonize, discredit, and delegitimize the new ruling government. The propaganda in the schools and universities promoting the Multicultural ideal will increase to a level that Göbbels would admire. The members of the bureaucracy, firmly adherent to the old system, will drum up scandal, release damaging information selectively, drag their feet when carrying out the new policies, and in general do whatever they possibly can to thwart the will of the newly-elected leaders.

This is exactly how the American establishment has reacted to the election and reelection of George W. Bush.

Papa Ray said...

"Do what you can in your own lives, and try to spread the word to others."

Where I live and in other areas in Texas, we have been preparing for the worse for several years.

We do like shooting at moving targets at the range, but we know the real reasons that we continue to practice, month after month, year after year.

We will protect our children and ourselves and our way of life.

Papa Ray
West Texas
USA

Terry Crane said...

Am I the only one who believes that 1917 Communist coup in Russia contributed significantly to 1933 Nazi success? You can already see "opposite numbers" trying to mirror Islamic methods - google for "Camp Jesus" for example.

The further it goes, the less likely it is that the alternative force will limit itself to restoring law, order and sanity. The higher chances are that it will proceed to establish intolerant oppressive society, thus giving legitimacy to Islamo-Nazi-Communists. Do not expect much goodies from "your bad guys" btw - "only" 7 million Germans lost their lives during WW2, that could be 5-6 times more if not for US.

Baron, your other mistake is that you presume functioning election system. It is very unlikely to survive though. At least some countries in Europe is very close to situation when armed gangs start to intimidate and assasinate politicians, activists etc. It will take 2% of population ready for violence to collapse legal system and turn elections into something usually associated with present-days Iraq

Vol-in-Law said...

Asger:
"Same here in Denmark, most of the politicians are against islamic fascims. Actually, the problem is the media, the schools, and the police - they are still covering up, and talking about multiculturalism"

Same here in UK - cultural Marxism's greatest success is not in controlling the politicians (though it is certainly a powerful force there) but in its total control of the state-sector - the media (BBC), education , (more recently) the police, and so on. Something about state sector bureaucracies seems to leave them totally defenseless to c-m takeover. I think it may be the way they can be isolated from reality. The exception so far is the military, probably because a C-M military is rendered highly dysfunctional - ok for Belgium or the Netherlands, but Britain still likes to send its troops places to kill people, so they need to be effective.

Vol-in-Law said...

Zerosumgame:
"Even those with just one kid will probably find some way to get the kid out to America"

Yeah, global-elite types like me (well, my wages aren't elite, but otherwise I fit the type) with my American wife & maybe 1-2 kids, can always flee Londonistan to Texas or similar. The hippy visionary Michael Moorcock moved from London to small-town Texas, probably a sign of things to come. And we'll leave the poor native white working class to their fate, which sucks for them. White emigration from the UK is already at unprecedented levels. Some goes to Spain for the sunny climate, but I suspect that may shift more and more to the Anglosphere, esp. USA and Australia, for those who can. This is one reason I suspect there may be a societal collapse in England much sooner than generally predicted, possibly within 2 decades. The USA seems to have coped with white flight from the south-west (California) and the northern cities (Detroit), but that is all internal displacement, the tax base can be shifted from state to federal level; I think European countries, being much smaller, and with much more expensive welfare states, are far more vulnerable.

Baron Bodissey said...

Terry Crane --

...you presume functioning election system.

I do not. I presume that the existing election systems will continue at least a little while longer.

Some of them are corrupt, and gamed, and handicapped in favor of the ruling coalition, but all of them can still manage to elect opposition parties occasionally -- Sweden's recent election being the biggest example.

If they can throw the rascals out in Sweden, it can happen anywhere in Europe.

But when the the nationalists gain power -- that's the point the system is likely to break down, and the civil war begin.

Thanos said...

This has been very informative, sorry to get to the discussion late. I would say that it will shape up a bit differently than this. Some countries in Europe are already coming to their senses, others are not. When I first started blogging back in April this year, I predicted major social upheaval and probable large-scale war in Europe within 5 to 20 years. The unemployment rates alone will do that to you.
You will have a country or two that undergo a revolution, their neighbors, or even the Islamic countries will turn on them depending on the form that takes. The revolutionary gov't will externalize their problems (revolutionary gov'ts that are weak always do that to keep the heat off themselves, look at Iran, Nazi Germany, Napoleon.)
So probable major war in Europe as some countries undergo revolution and secession from the EU.

eatyourbeans said...

Vol-in-Law:

What makes you think we'll take you? After all, you say you will cut and run out on your own country; why should we give you another? Granted in your case you can ride in tied to your American wife's apron, but still won't you feel a little bit cheap?
Israelis, on the other hand, are welcome if it comes to that. They fought.

Archonix said...

Eatyourbeans demonstrates exactly why I so dislike the idea of running away in the face of islamic pressure. If we abandon our homes without a fight, where do we go? When people like Zero tell us that we'll have to run away with our tails between our legs, where do they expect us to run to. Why should we run to the US? Why should they take us?

There are only two inevitabilities in this world: death, and taxes. Everything else can be fought back and defended against. The attitude that says the fall of europe to Islam is inevitable is the same attitude that reckons the absolute rule of the EU is inevitable, or that said the total overthrow of the world by the communists was inevitable. Defeatism breeds a perverse complacency as, with the belief that nothing can be done, comes the belief that there's no point in doing anything.

I remember a story about a man, a preacher, who worked to spread christianity in eastern europe while it was still behind the iron curtain. He once had an argument with a friend, who told him he was wasting his time, that communism was the antichrist and that he would be better serving himself by holing up and preparing for the end time war. The preacher, meanwhile, knew in his heart that the soviet union would eventually fail, and his response was to spread the word to the eople who were currently oppressed by the USSR, as he knew that many of them would be in a position to influence their country after the soviet union fled. He was right, too, and after the communist system was destroyed, the people he had spoken to were spread throughout the new free nations, able to greatly influence what happened. His friend, meanwhile, spent the whole time telling everyone that the soviet union was going to take over the world that that there was nothing to be done about it. He served no purpose with it.

I know which one of those two I'd rather be. The preacher stood his ground and quite probably changed history for the better in a million little ways.

Talking about running away is like being the second man, telling everyone it's hopeless to try. He ended up having no impact on the world. Telling people they should leave now, or leave soon, when everything demands we stay and fight for our lands is encouraging cowardice, and cowardice simply encourages the problem we face. If Islam sees people running from it, it will pursue them like a god chasing a rabbit, or a small child.

Would the US want to take in a bunch of apparent cowards who cut and run at the first opportunity? Would you want people like that in your country?

Saharians said...

This is my first post to this blog. I have to say, the comments here are encouraging. Now I know: I’m not alone. Thank you!

I’ve been warning others about a coming Europe civil war for 10 years, and every time the response has been apathetic, or worse. In fact, while participating in 2000 at the LSE in a graduate student seminar on terrorism and international conflict, I predicted widespread Muslim assaults on the West--and I was actually laughed at!

I look forward to discussions here. I have just one thing to add at this point, a personal anecdote. I frequently travel to London on business. During a recent meeting this summer, European political risk consultants told me, ‘off the record,’ that they were aware of two British ex-army officers who are recruiting British, European, and American military and security professionals, ex-intelligence officers, right-wing activists, and the like, for a private security network to put in place in the likely event of a Muslim insurgency in Europe. I don’t know whether this is b.s., but I am certain the posters on this blog are not the only ones preparing for civil war.

eatyourbeans said...

Bravo Archonix!
The upcoming congressional elections will doubtles belie my words, but it will be a short and nearly disasterous experiment with Democratic leadership in time of war. A rerun of the imbecile Carter show. After that, I think you'll detect the USA turning more Roman--the early republic, I mean. We'll have no choice. Some of you might prefer sharia.

jillosophy said...

I firmly believe that the reason illegal mass migration is allowed where the USA is concerned, why in the face of overwhelming evidence Bush REFUSES to secure our borders, is the North American Union. No one wants to believe it, but it will become apparent to all within the next few years. My blog is dedicated to the erradication of American culture and sovereignty and the Islamofascist threat. I see what is going on over there in Europe and I see it here too.

href="http://jillosophy.blogspot.com">Jillosophy

Minuteman said...

Archonix,

You are definitely right. You can't cut and run from your own country. My advice to you is get the address of FN and be prepared to make a visit just in case.

Roderick said...

On this whole "civil war " thing, aren't Muslim immigrant communities largely "ghettoized?"

I'm asking because that is the impression I get. If anyone knows better, please inform us.

Here's why it matters:

IF it's true that Muslim lower-class immigrants have confined themselves largely to certain neighborhoods, then they can be contained when the fateful day comes. The disturbing irony about this scenario is that it resembles the Nazi blockade of Jewish ghettoes. But containment seems to be the most effective option with the shortest timeline to "victory."

Europeans will need to understand the repercussions and unintended consequences of this.

Beach Girl said...

Yes, the SPP, the North American Union between Fox, Martin, and Bush - as they jet to their island homes, we will be left to assimilate or be damned. This is the finest post and comments, Baron. To read the comments is educational but let me remark also that those wanting to "flee" to the US must know that we need them to defend their homes. The United States has been weakened by the blathering far-Left, those posturing for the Arab news media housed in Washington DC.

If there is to be a civil war in Europe and I believe there will be, the United States will not be able to come in on the side of Western Civilization. We are having a hard enough time dealing with so many "adjustments" at the moment. Millions of illegals swarming into the nation and spreading out into states all over. North Carolina is practically Mexican in some areas. Bilingual signs are everywhere. Cities/states are suing the US government to recover costs of services "given" to the illegals.

Western man has much to be proud of. First and foremost though, as the Baron says, we must "take back the culture."

The problem with any "civil" war is that those in power lay down the heavy foot of oppression and do it in the name of "security". Just about everything in the US today can be cloaked in the robe of "national security" and therefore suppressed.

But for Europe and the smaller nations such as Italy, stand up and deport the jihadists.

As for a rerun of the imbecile Carter show, the votes haven't been counted yet. And like Papa Ray says, they practice every day in Texas. Texas has been under 7 flags I believe and Texans know of defending their own. Their frontier is much more recent than that of those of us on the East Coast.

I don't think there will be a Muslim insurgency in Europe; I believe it will be an insurgency of the Western man. Fjordman knows better than I. The sorrow is that we will be pushed and then should all hell break loose, no one can foresee the outcome.

One good note from the Left Coast - a small town outside of LA just passed a law that carries stiff fines and more for those who rent to illegal aliens. Pity that cities have to defend themselves when our Constitution clearly states that in times of invasion, the Federal Gov. is to protect the citizens. In this case, however, we seem to be protecting the citizens of Mexico over our own Border Patrol.

In terms of Black-White differences in USA, the sorry state of race-relations if that is the case has been aided and abetted by the Clintons - always two for the price of one. We can't afford them, my friends.

The Muslims don't need numbers in US, all they need is to munch away at our laws and make exceptions for themselves, make themselves into a "protected" group. Lord, how many victims can one nation have?

Vol-in-Law said...

eatyourbeams:
"What makes you think we'll take you? After all, you say you will cut and run out on your own country; why should we give you another? Granted in your case you can ride in tied to your American wife's apron, but still won't you feel a little bit cheap?"

Well, as you say, wife's apron, you don't get a choice. And you're better off with me than many of the immigrants you let in, I'd say. As for feeling cheap, well I live in Londonistan but I'm not English, I'm Scots Irish from Ulster and I'd simply be migrating (like Scots Irish have done for centuries) to be with other Scots-Irish in a mostly Scots-Irish culture.

BTW, I do get a bit annoyed with Americans slagging us Brits off for cowardice. Unlike you (I suspect) I live surrounded by Islamist extremists and suspected terrorists (some facing extradition to the USA); I face danger and possibly death commuting to and from work every day. Where I work, more and more burkas and male Islamist clothing. Youths block the stairwells, loudly slagging off women who aren't in hijab. The radio seems to be constantly airing Islamonazis spewing hatred to fawning BBC interviewers. It gets really tiring. Plus my first child should be born soon, I don't want them growing up here the way things are.

Phanarath said...

Roderick

You are right. If native europeans at any point starts to make counterterrorism. The Muslim Areas will be very easy to hit. Nothing like this has happened as far as I know. But if the game of terror was taken up by native euroes, they would have great logistic advanteges over Muslims. It would also be easier for them to blend in and disappear.

eatyourbeans said...

Vol-In-Law,

There's some truth to what you say. But don't you see? If you all move to America, the enemy will surely follow anyway. You will have bought just enough time for your kids to grow up and fight the fight you wouldn't, and then things may well not go our way.
Right now, what's the population of the EU? 400 million? You outnumber them by 20-to-1, and you dare talk about running away? The Scotch Irish who came here earlier were made of stronger timber.

Londonstan is a dangerous outpost; you fear for your family. Fair enough. Withdraw to a stronger position, and there, educate, agitate, and prepare. You know, I almost envy you. You'll have opportunities to accomplish things far, far above scoring some digital coup on the Shanghi exchange.
Or whatever you global elites do.

Good luck. And, as we Americans once said and shortly will say again, Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition.

Wrymouth said...

Vol-in-Law,

For those who can't leave the Big Island, may I suggest Bonnie Scotland? I'd like to believe the Scots wouldn't put up with too much b.s. if it came down to it (judging from the attitudes of the few dyed-in-the-wool Scots I've known).

JIMBO said...

Here in the US we have our share of Muslims as well. But for the most part, I really do think most of them are here to get away from the radicals.

But like a few of my countrymen have pointed out, we are a well armed group of people. If there are radicals in the US wanting to start violence in certain cities like in France etc, they are laying very low. Moderate Muslims will turn them into the FBI at the drop of a hat.

No muslims in the US want to be the first to test the waters, because I think they know what the response would be. And it wont be pretty. Those commercials about the picante sauce being from NY City, and the one guy says, "Get a Rope".

Not too far from what would happen, they know this, hence no rioting by muslims in this country. So they police themselves very well. No one wants to be the focus of all the pent up rage, we are still holding. Heck if something starts in Europe it will be very hard for the EU cops to keep Americans out. I mean just avg citizens wanting to go lend a "hand".

Lagwolf said...

Does anyone have any statistics from "white flight" from the UK to the anglosphere in the last decade?

ric ottaiano said...

jimbo: i believe you've hit the nail on the head...or at least i hope you have...i agree that Muslims in the U.S. are for the most part here to get away from the radicals, but there still is a percentage that sympathizes and believes that they can use our system (e.g. free speech, civil rights laws, etc) against us...however, the American people won't stand for it and i believe as you do that if Muslims tried acting out as they are doing in France on the streets of, say, Houston, they'd be in for a rude awakening.

Harvard99 said...

Baron said:

"Muslims will be at the top of the list, followed by Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Chinese, Africans.... IOW, the usual suspects."

As a Jew who has lived in Europe, I beg to differ. What threatens us IS the Muslim invasion. Not some fantasised re-emergence of the Nazis as you hint at!

We are just as indigenous to Europe as any other European. We get it from both sides: 1) being white and 2) our religious beliefs Judaism.

The favoring of Muslims in policy and practise hurts Jews first and foremost.

Harvard99 said...

The more I think about your comment Baron, the more I find it patronizing and offensive. Jews have been in Europe for well over a thousand years. The Islamisation of Europe is a recent phenomenon.

The very mindset that could make a comment like :

"Muslims will be at the top of the list, followed by Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Chinese, Africans.... IOW, the usual suspects."

is the same mindset that has actually led to the Islamisation of Europe.

To suggest that the reversal of this will lead to return of Nazism is extremely naive. What we have in Europe is the exact opposite of Nazism! THAT is the problem.

Baron Bodissey said...

Look, y'all, you've got the wrong end of the stick here.

What I meant is this: if Europe doesn't wake up and deal with the problem of unassimilated Muslim immigrants it risks, in reaction, the resurgence of authoritarian, violent, and racist forms of nationalism.

Under those circumstances, the Muslims would not be the only ones targeted, any more than Hitler targeted only the Jews.

Anyone not belonging to the native language group could end up being a target. Which includes Jews, gypsies, Patagonians, etc.

That was my only point. Sheesh.

Vol-in-Law said...

"Anyone not belonging to the native language group could end up being a target. Which includes Jews, gypsies, Patagonians, etc."

Hmm, I think that is pretty much the myth that the Euro-elite peddles. What is actually happening seems to me to be more a drawing together of those groups most threatened by Islamic expansionism - Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, black non-Muslims (African & Caribbean) and (to some extent) those native Europeans not blinded by cultural Marxism. In Britain, groups like Sikhs and West Indians have benefitted in the past from cultural Marxism, but now find themselves under threat from the Marxist-Islamist alliance. So now the black, upper-middle-class head of the Commission for Racial Equality, Trevor Phillips, very much a "left liberal", is in the forefront of criticism of "Multiculturalism".

On "Question Time" last night on the BBC, discussing the veil/niqab, the panel was as follows:

1. Labour rep.
2. Conservative rep.
3. Lib Dem rep.
4. Respect rep (Respect is a Marxist-Islamist Troksykist minor party) wearing hijab
5. A left-wing Sikh comedian in turban

The first three, the three major political parties, competed disgracefully in dhimmitude, echoing the fourth. All agreed that niqab was great. The only one who spoke any sense was the Sikh comedian, who talked about how it made him uneasy.

Vol-in-Law said...

Wrymouth:
"Vol-in-Law,

For those who can't leave the Big Island, may I suggest Bonnie Scotland? I'd like to believe the Scots wouldn't put up with too much b.s. if it came down to it (judging from the attitudes of the few dyed-in-the-wool Scots I've known)."

I was in Scotland a few months back, it was certainly great to be away from Londonistan. You're right about the Scots temperament, but the cultural Marxists are forcing large scale Muslim immigration into Scotland too. Local native community leaders who object are humiliated and removed from office. I believe similar is occurring in Wales, in many parts of rural England, and from what my friends back in Ulster tell me, even there now! So a rural Ulster town like Dungannon has gone from all-native to 90% immigrant within a few years. I happen to live in a part of London that is a hotbed of Islamist terror networks; these fringe and rural colonies are I'm sure not involved in terrorism yet, but they are part of the same process. The Euro-elite seek to replace the native non-elite European population with one more to their liking. A similar thing is occurring in the USA, although the imported largely population is largely Mexican rather than Muslim, and there is less disparity in birth rates with the ethnic-European population so I think America's chances are rather better.

Vol-in-Law said...

eatyourbeams:
"There's some truth to what you say. But don't you see? If you all move to America, the enemy will surely follow anyway. You will have bought just enough time for your kids to grow up and fight the fight you wouldn't, and then things may well not go our way."

Hm, I do actually fight every day, in small ways, against the iron grip of cultural Marxism on Britain. The Marxist-Islamist control of political discourse has come under criticism from some parts of the Left; the "respectable Right" is totally craven.

At this stage I'm not sure it's a winnable fight though. It tends to be "one step forward two steps back". Whenever any progress is made the behemoth of the BBC steps in to reverse it, as in their current promotion of the Niqab.

Lagwolf said...

Well at least the Dhimmification does not include the The Telegraph. Note the quote from a leading Muslim near the top. Wonder exactly what he means?