Saturday, August 12, 2006

TigerHawk’s Challenge

TigerHawk has thrown down the gauntlet today for us warbloggers:

What will it take to militarize the United States? What will it take to militarize Western Europe?

WW2 devastationGates of Vienna and many of its commenters believe that only another devastating attack on American soil will jar us out of our multicultural complacency. It may even take more than one such catastrophe.

As long as the vast majority of people are largely unaffected by Islamic terror, and as long as the major media are controlled by people who are actively inimical to America and its traditions, the population will not be mobilized to self-defense.

Nips and KrautsThe blogosphere has gained influence in the last few years, but there is no way for it to break through the pro-appeasement propaganda that now saturates the airwaves and the print media.

If this were WW2, we wouldn’t be worrying about the feelings of Muslims, or castigating ourselves as racists for attempting to defend ourselves. We’d be girding our loins to defeat the Ragheads just as we battled the Nips and the Krauts to an unconditional surrender.

JapoteurAdmit it — you winced at my last sentence, didn’t you? That illustrates the depth and breadth of the problem we now face.

So how many casualties does America have to take before it gets serious? 10,000? 100,000? A million? The answer is not yet clear.

Japs Execute Doolittle MenIronically, successful counterterrorism operations like the recent bust in London delay our full mobilization. By protecting us from those who would kill us, and all the while bending over backwards to appease Muslims, the authorities allow us to continue to exist in our cocoon of postmodern bliss.

But the day can only be postponed. The last decade of appeasing Islam has only encouraged our enemy and increased his recruitment. At some point he will succeed, and after Mad Jad gets his nukes the results may well be cataclysmic.

Work as Hard as a JapAs for Europe — nothing will militarize Europe. The deadening inertia induced by the European Union, combined with the ever-increasing economic drain of the welfare state, will keep Europe demobilized and demoralized, with the élites choosing dhimmitude over resistance.

In the end, if Europe is to be saved, it will be a US-Danish-Polish alliance that does the dirty work. John Sobieski and the Vikings are being dusted off for a final assignment…

63 comments:

Voyager said...

What greatly inconvenienced Great Britain in two World Wars was something Americans never had to worry about - ships carrying food, and ships carrying oil - being sunk by submarines at a tremendous rate

Between June 1940 and December 1941 total losses of British flag tonnage were about seven million deadweight tons, or roughly thirty-six percent of the British merchant fleet at June 1940; this figure moreover does not include losses of neutral or Allied ships under British control.


In January 1943 imports fell to the lowest point, as it proved, of the whole war-less than half the level of January 1941, nearly 42 percent less than in January 1942

Now if the Us faced a drop in oil supplies from Venezuela, Nigeria, Alaska and had to ration oil - maybe that would stir people.

Maybe if the Straits of Hormuz were blocked and US Navy ended up being attacked by Iranian rockets...........

The idea of energy rationing has not yet entered the US consciousness but it could majke for a cold East Coast winter or a hellish Southwestern Summer

Da Bear said...

Yea, sadly, nothing will save Europe, militarize Europe, shock Europe, or redeem Europe. Too many millions of Muslims, too much PC, too little regard for history, and too few Denmarks. If only I could bribe a French Imam for a exclusive franchise to produce European prayer rugs.

As to the good ol' USA, we need to consider some (NBC ( nuke bio chemical) strike that shocks even the the uber-liberal MSM out of their BDS. Loss of life does not need to exceed ....say... 4K to 6K for this to occur.

A tipping point will be reached when a House seat cannot be held or won without a firm declaration to agressively (boots on the ground) go after terrorists on their home turf and the turf of their supporting state sponsors, and immediate deportation of all Muslims from this country.

My gut tells me Iran will wait 'till Bush leaves, and a "play nicely" Democrat is in the Oval Office, then....KA-BOOM! Until then, we can anticipate "bleeding from a hundred cuts".

Da Bear

Zerosumgame said...

Western Europe is lost (demographics, multiculti brainwashing), and Poland has a bigger problem right now than Islamofascism -- Rising Russo-fascism.

It is not hard to see Poland again crushed and partitioned between an (Islamo)Nazi Germany and a totalitarian Russia under Putinism.

If America wants Poland to survive in the long run, caught between such two forces, she may have to consider giving her her own WMDs.

As for Denmark, no doubt their stubborn defiance of EU norms is encouraging, but it would be hard to see them holding out against Islamist Germany, Sweden and Norway. Probably the only way she could do it is the way Israel did -- arm to the teeth, and (likely) atomic bombs.

Lady Hawk said...

American education and MSM are brainwashing students and others to accept nonconfrontation, and disarmament.
To militarize the US, political correctness must be obliterated from the public school system. My 11th grade English students did not know who the hezbollah (small letter intended)are!!!

Pastorius said...

I think it would require a terror attack killing at least 10,000 to mobilize America.

I don't think Europe is dead. I think Europe is filled to the brim with men who are ferocious beasts just underneath the surface of civility. Just look at their soccer violence.

I think if Europe got hit by a terror attack which killed in excess of 10,000 Europeans it would be interesting. i really doubt the governments of Europe would do anything about it. I think what would happen is the people of Europe would get very angry and take things into their own hands.

If the government tried to intervene I believe they would be strung up from lightpoles.

In short, I believe Europe's militarization will begin with a civil war in the streets before official anti-Jihad governments would be put in place.

Zerosumgame said...

Pastorius,

Maybe it's having gone through two world wars, I don't know, but I think that the more violence that Europeans would face from Islamofascists, the faster they would surrender.

Neither Spain nor England seem to have found any new backbone after their terrorist attacks, and France has become even more capitulating since the Intifada last fall.

Pastorius said...

I think what we fail to take into consideration when we make these pronouncements that Europe is lost is the fact that, when viewed from the perspective of thousands of years, this gentlemanly civilization that we know today is just a trend, or maybe we should call it a fad, even.

Underneath the fads and trends lie the real motivations of groups of people. Europe is a dominating force in the world because Europe wants to be a dominating force in the world. The past few hundred years have been filled with romanticism and decadence because Europe has the luxury of romanticism and decadence. That's how much capital they have in the bank.

But, when it comes down to it, underneath the veneer, Europeans are still the people who produced all the vicious wars of the past. Try to take their dominance away from them, and they will get angry.

This whole epoch is actually going to be good for Europe. It will bring them around to seeing what is important in their civilization once again. And, strong men of vision will once again come to be in control of the reigns of power. (Sorry, if I sound like Hitler here, I do not mean fascism, although I do fear that it could happen in the course of events). I think Europe will be forced to redefine its priorities, and this will lead to a stronger sense of who they have been and they can become.

The problem is, this won't happen easily. It is going to be a very painful process.

KG said...

"To militarize the US, political correctness must be obliterated from the public school system. "
I think Ladyhawk has hit the nail on the head.
We can't continue to produce generations of non-judgemental values-neutral kids and expect them to defend a civilisation. Why would they, if they've been taught that one culture/system/morality is as good as another?
This, and somehow reforming the MSM are the two most urgent jobs facing us.

Zerosumgame said...

Pastorius:

Europe is a dominating force in the world because Europe wants to be a dominating force in the world.

Let's put aside the Islamist threat for a moment. To say that Europe is a dominating force and will continue to be is wrong. There are several factors for this that have nothing to do with "Eurabia":

1) The population is declining. Compare that to the USA, which will have about 440-450 million people by 2050, more than all of Europe by then.

2) An economic system dominated by severe government over-regulation, stifling taxation, and a long history of Socialism that discourages entrepeneurship. And an aging population that wants its pensions is not going to agree to reform this.

3) India and China, both with over 1 billion people, will continue their economic growth and become the dominant economic rivals to America.

4) Europe's military prowess has atrophied severely, and given other economic pressures (pensions mostly) where would Europe get the money to rebuild its military forces?

While I may get a couple of posters here who will say "There goes Zero again", these are all criticisms of Europe that have been made my many bloggers and by many journalists.

apex said...

You're wrong. Europe is far from lost. There is large scale discontent with the trends you correctly observe, but with no productive outlet, as the accepted political mainstream, "elites" as you call them, does not adress these concerns, or do so in a lackluster way. Fringe parties do, but they are just that, fringe parties. Right now, that is the status quo of things, and while little things like the London or Madrid bombings do have an effect in public opinion, these do not reach the political arena. But, you have to think of it as tectonic shifts, pressures that slowly build up.

Now, the postulated question was, "what will it take", and I will skip that point, as others have adressed it, and it remains speculative. But the same event or developments that will/would lead to a full-scale mobilization will have much more serious implications for domestic politics. Think Germany 1933, most people didn't care about Jews one way or the other. And back then, Jews did not blow up Germans in busses, trains or airplanes, and they sure did not create the "mobilizing event" alluded to above. Yet, barely five years later, mobs torched their businesses, and nine years later, the "final solution" was decided upon. This, by the way, applies to America in the same way, it is basic human nature - "ferocious beasts" indeed.

When leaders say "Islam is peace" and similar things, they are trying to dam this up. In a way that is prudent, and there is merit to the distinction between radical islam and islam, and maybe the dam will hold and the tide go out again, leaving everything intact. However, if the waters continue to rise behind that dam, pressure builds. Anything that breaks that damn, and it will get ugly fast. It will change the political system, it will strip off all the layers of civilization and sophistion, it will lead to a relapse into barbarism, much like we have seen in the first half of the last century. I hope we won't, but if it happens, that's the way it is going to happen. Total War.


apex

snowonpine said...

Given the ability of the MSM to twist the facts and turn the road signs--see, for instance, comments by leading Democrats and TV commentators that the thwarted airline bombings were a sign that Bush's approach to terrorism and the war in Iraq are failures rather than as signs of success--I'm not sure what magnitude of attack on U.S. soil it would take to do the trick. I'd have thought 9/11 would have done it but it just managed to wake up a few people, and many of them only temporarily, while merely disturbing the deep sleep of the majority of the population. Given the bloodthirsty nature of Muslim fanatics, I'm sure that they will try for as many and as horrible casualties as they can and, if they succeed, the carnage will be horrendous. What a tragedy that we will likely have to take such a blow rather than preempt and deliver a blow to them preventing the death and destruction such an attack against us will bring here in America.

I also note that many have written off Britain. I find it very sad that the land of my ancestors has become so blind and impotent. To read of the suicidal policies of the British government, the multi-culti actions and attitudes that are destroying Britain and preparing the way for a new dark age, is heart-breaking and so frustrating. They apparently have a death wish and I can forsee nothing that will wake them in time.

Voyager said...

) The population is declining. Compare that to the USA, which will have about 440-450 million people by 2050, more than all of Europe by then.

Where do you get your facts from ?

The population of the European Union is 460 million - and of Europe as a whole it is nearly 600 million. If the USA catches up by 2050 it will probably be 50% Hispanic.

There are only about 60 million Muslims in the Middle East plus say 50 million in Iran.

What I don;t understand is the 300 million Americans only have 500.000 soldiers

Archonix said...

The US doesn't rely on conscription and, like the UK, fields a professional army. Most of those soliders will have been there for 10 years or more and know a hell of a lot about soldiering. THey don't particularly need a huge army because a single US marine can have the same impact as a whole platoon of conscripts.

Pastorius said...

Zerosumgame makes some good points. But, I think Europe is dominant in the world. As I understand it, the EU economy is larger than the US economy. As such it is certainly more powerful than India and China combined.

And, Europe is brutal at the bottom of her nature. Of course, that was my original point.

Plantrunner said...

A few weeks after 9/11 when the "enablers" started getting really cranked up I said it would take killing 3-400,000 to wake us up. As time has passed I have been forced to raise that to 4-5 millions, and over a relatively short time frame, no more that 2 years. This country can only be described as profoundly stupid.

Zerosumgame said...

Voyager:

My estimate of European population does not include Russia, which I consider a distinct player on the world stage, and a distinct geographic entity. Nor does it include Turkey. Take out those two, and assume an approximately 20% drop in population until 2050, and indeed America's population would exceed Europe's.

Canker said...

What it would take in the UK is a (very) minor revolt against the MSM and PC. I think this is not far off whatever happens otherwise.

Massachusetts Republican said...

when, yes when tha moslems WMD us THEN we will see the light!

It will prob. be funded by an islamic "charity"

-Give till it hurts...someone else.
Moslems are required by their faith to donate a portion of their yearly wealth to charity.

This is good and noble.
However if an honest, law-abiding American Moslem gives alms they may also be funding terror unwittingly. The issue of Moslem charities either duping the giver or enabling actual terror funding knowingly by the donor appears endemic amongst moslem charities.

Many Christians and Jews ask how could a charity fund terror? Probably because non-Moslems don’t understand what is meant by the Koranic injunction to give.

So who DESERVE alms according to Islam?

The requirement to give is called "Zakah" or "Zakat".
One of the five pillars of Islam is the requirement that every Muslims contribute to Zakat. According to the Qur'an, the Zakat funds MUST be used to suport the following.

*The poor who do not beg for support.
*The poor who beg for support.
*Those who administer the collection and distribution of the Zakat funds.
*Those who may be enticed to Islam as well as new converts who need financial support.
*Those Muslim slaves who may have their freedom purchased.
*Muslim travelers who need assistance while on a journey.
*Those who are fighting in the Cause of Allah, i.e. Mujahideen, Holy Warriors, Jihadist. Today they are known as Terrorist by non-moslems.

Huh! It makes sense why you have groups like the following (and so many others):
-----------------------------------------
Benevolence International ….

The rest at my site

Always On Watch said...

The wake-up attacks would have to kill a lot more that 10,000. And even then, the left will point the finger at the West for antagonizing Muslims.

In order to win this war, Islam must be demonized. Call it Islamofascism to make it more palatable (Even that fired up CAIR! **snerk**)

We're losing the propaganda war--at least, on the political level. What I'm hearing on the news every night smells like appeasement.

"Good Muslim, bad Muslim" is too close to "Good Nazi, bad Nazi."

Muslims do not differentiate between Islam and radical Islam. Just listen to the various Muslim spokespersons and their verbal gymnastics.

Wild Bill said...

The pacifist/socialist, anti war element of U.S. Society will never join with the American Militia no matter how many citizens die in attacks.. They will continue to do as they have for the past 5 years .. BLAME BUSH !!
The rest of us are reluctant to take action for the simple reason that we would have to kill a shit-load of our own population to just get em the hell out of our way.. The gotdam human shields would come out of the woodwork as soon as a group of arm citizens even got close to a community of ethnics..
I kinda figger the Eurabians see it about the same way..

If another attack does happen, the libtards are gonna be too damn busy tryin to organize hearins and impeachment proceedins to worry about a counterattack.. THEY AINT WORRIED ABOUT THE ARHABI/HARABI.. THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT BUSH !! Even the ones that did join a militai, after borrowin some gonads from a frenchman, would want to do nothin more than ARREST the terrorists !! And that would even be on the condition that their therepist said it was OK..

If the (D)'s field a person in the White House in 08, then I feel that they would prosecute a counter offensive in the way Israel has lately.. Make a quick, half-assed strike, then go home to dinner and a bottle of wine to celebrate!! I just hope they can at least finish their bottle of wine before the bastards start shootin at em again..

With me, the jury is still out on how Britain and the EU are gonna fair in the comin Crusade.. There is Mooselimb unrest in their midst now, and in the comin weeks we will see what they are gonna do about the arhabi/harabi in their countries..

Zonka said...

The premises for the challenge is faulty, IMHO. It won't be necessary to militarize the US or Europe for that matter. The current militaries are adequate to take out any regular armies in the Islamic world, without much of a sweat. The muslims know that and we know that. Thus the fight is not wih regular armies, it is with militias and guerilla troops that can do hit and run operations, and with success as we see it in Lebanon, Iraq and Afghanistan.

True we all need to wake up and admit to the danger that we are facing and stop the appeasement, second we need our military forces to stop trying to fight yesterday's war. We need to retool our armed forces so that they are capable of using much of the same tactics and strategies as the enemy, to hit deep and hit hard and then disappear out of harms way.

The situation might look a lot like the days before WWII, but this isn't WWII, the Islamic world isn't a highly industrialized power who is technological equal to the West like Nazi Germany was, instead it's a backwater society with a lousy infrastructure which is why they will not be able to wage a traditional war on us, they lack the logistic support. But what they can do is to make terror attacks, incite riots, and use guerilla warfare and of course wage a propaganda war against us. And as apex said at some point they will do something that will be the final straw, and there willo be a reaction, and it won't be nice, because of all the pent up frustrations and anger. And I believe that is one of the reasons that the powers that be won't put a name on the enemy, to keep our own population calm, only is it getting harder and harder to keep up the illusion that they are trying to sell us, and as we know from history when the difference between the illusion and the reality becomes so great that it can no longer be explained away, there will be a change of system... Which was what happened when Churchill came to power in Britain, the former "warmonger" drove out the appeasement politician and changed the course of history. Unfortunately history also have examples of other system changes that were more dramatically and more bloody as well.

And I totally agree with Pastorius on the assertion that there is still strength in Europe, the politicians, elite and media have been rather successful of hiding it and praising the EU for being a project of peace, that have facilitated peace between the European countries that have been at each other's throats for centuries, but if one were to dig one wouldn't have to dig deep to find that there is still the old will and strength to fight for one's country and against the others -- but you won't hear this from the media or the politicians because they have no desire to play with fire... Better to keep the illusion that we are all one happy family. The fact is that we're not... and once the illusion is gone, the genie is out of the bottle! And the Islamofascists are doing their damned best to uncork the bottle.

So to answer the question what will it take? It will take some time and most likely a couple of more successful attacks on European or American soil with a large number of casualties and then either the poiliticans wake up or the population will take matters into their own hands and then you'll have a fullblown war on Islam on your hands, and it won't be pretty and would probably be the end of Islam... let's hope that Allah have a large stock of virgins ready when that time comes (all 46.8 billions of them)!

Massachusetts Republican said...

Excuse me. MR ghost of the future, please shoot me. Thanks. I would like to be back in 1965 when I could ride in a plane and only fret over fish or steak.

As I was being blown up the other day in a terrorist plot funded by our friends the Saudis I couldn’t help but think what a Hitlarian man our President is. Just as every part of me was torn from every other part of me I remembered how Bush wanted to spy on the phone calls of some Moslem Americans. What a 1984 type. While my parents cried at my empty casket (no body found) I was moved to anger that that SOB Bush actually wanted to look at the bank transactions of some American moslems. What a fascist. Good thing the democrats and C.A.I.R & the ACLU stopped all that Nixonian stuff.

Oh by the way have you seen my head? I think it’s over by the tail section.

-Steve

I have a cool piece on Moslem terror funding…Oops I mean charities at my site. Please come on by...

thanks

Russet Shadows said...

What will it take? Honestly, I think it would take bombing Hollywood to get the liberals' attention. Until then, they will wail and urinate on themselves, making an impact far out of proportion to their numbers. Liberalism is more than a cancer -- it is a nerve agent, where trace amounts can paralyze half of a host.

Archonix said...

Just did a quick check. Europe and russia comined total approximately 720 million. The population of Russia is some 144 million, and Turkey is about 60 million leaving europe's population at around 600 million if you exclude them. Turkey shouldn't be in europe anyway. :)

Now, the population of the EU is a different matter but, for our purposes, that's irrelevant. The EU isn't a country, much as it wants to be, nor is it the whole of europe.

Sleepy time. For real this time. See you all in three weeks. Or... 2. Whatever.

bernie said...

"If this were WW2, we wouldn’t be worrying about the feelings of Muslims, or castigating ourselves as racists for attempting to defend ourselves. We’d be girding our loins to defeat the Ragheads just as we battled the Nips and the Krauts to an unconditional surrender."

I believe it would take a dozen 9/11s before the MSM would feel comfortable in calling them anything but "gentlemen from the middle-east".

I call them sand-fleas in some of my posts. But one more 9/11 and I won't be so polite.

Papa Ray said...

I agree with Wild Bill but I would like to add something.

The major battle in this long war is going to be propaganda, and so far we are losing it big time.

Should we lie, doctor photos, bias all news and coverage of things pretaining to this war?

I don't know, but I do know this, if we don't do someting to equal out the propagada war, we could make it last a lot longer than it should.

Islam rules by fear and by the promise of conquest and booty and by making the believer think he and other believers are not only better than everyone else, but that they are the only ones' that will ever see heaven.

The rest of us are infidels, unbelievers whose only value is to be subjugated by Muslims or to be destroyed as they would destroy any pestilence.

Islam is a cult, the most dangerous, evil cult ever on this planet.

There are varing degrees of belief in Islam by muslims but they all fear it, and they won't attempt to change it or fight the "true belivers". Of course, some appear to do so, as in Iraq right now, but they are not fighting Islam and saving Americans, they are fighting differing sects and "outsiders" that they do not agree with or respect. Also they are fighting for their honor and their pride, which to the average Muslim is all important.

Hold a gun to a Muslim's head and say kill the infidel or you will be killed and I would bet the infidel's chances are not worth spit.

Papa Ray
West Texas
USA

Da Bear said...

Such an interesting topic, if only it could be rationaly discussed on the the Sunday morning MSM faux news/interview shows. like "Meet the Depressed"

This is the crux of the matter, such discussions are still too "hot" for the MSM. Perhaps the heat of an low yield Iranian nuke in Manhatten will overcome the such insane suicidal stupidity. Perhaps....

Da Bear

san said...

What the hell happened to the Powell Doctrine == "use force suddenly and massively"?

Now, it's just that gradual creeping war, a la Vietnam. How quickly we forget.

Time to go back to "suddenly and massively."

KG said...

"suddenly and massively" is no longer possible. The UN and its army of useful idiots have seen to that.
Let me modify that--suddenly and massively is still possible for any terrorist or ME country that gets its hands on a nuke. Just not possible for any civilised country defending our way of life.

DWPittelli said...

Gates,

If I got you right, you use racist WWII cartoons and speech to show the extent to which we have to take seriously WW4, the War on Islamofascism; that we have to, at the least, stop being PC about Islam and Muslims.

And basically, you are decrying our weakness (or moral squeamishness) relative to that of the 1940s generation. But apart from one use of "ragheads" (with apologia) you don't really act out your convictions here. For example, where is your derogatory cartoon depicting Osama and Nasrallah as hideous, ape-like caricatures, perhaps kneeling before a bloody Prophet?

I wouldn't wish to single you out -- after the fiasco of the tame Danish Mohammad cartoons, who has the balls to publish such? -- but aren't your feet also made of clay?

Charles Martel said...

Must be something wrong with me. That sentence didn't make me cringe one little bit.

Baron Bodissey said...

DWPitelli --

Obviously, you haven't been hanging out here very long! I got a lot of flak just last week for posting the "Mohamet the Paedophile Prophet" poem. I have posted any number of anti-Muslim Mohammed cartoons, some of which I even drew myself.

But not the sub-human-apes style caricatures. That's not really my style.

Go through our archives; you'll find quite a lot, enough for us to make the moonbats' "Haters 'n' Racists" list.

Baron Bodissey said...

P.S.

However, we obviously do have clay feet, since we blog anonymously. Too chicken to come out in public with our real names...

onesimus said...

dwpitelli,

Scroll down to "Are we ready for confrontation?" and check the graphics on the left.

I appreciate you, Baron and Dymphna.

I'm not sure that any mortal act can "wake up" our culture. Has our educational system taught anything about "nobility", "responsibility", "integrity", etc. in the last two or three generations?

What percentage of the parents in our culture give their children anything besides "stuff"?

I doubt that anything short of a complete bringing down of "the ECONOMY stupid" will move our pampered panderers in Pollywood to repudiate cultural relativism.

Da Bear said...

Ok, I spent a couple of hours doing the profile...much truth and a little humor!

Da Bear

ScottSA said...

I think what it will take is the same kind of propaganda used in WW II. Most of us here are emersed in this topic, and many of us have academic backgrounds in it, but much of the world is not.

However intelligent people may be, many of them simply have more important things to worry about, like whether they were supposed to buy eggs after work or if tonight is Crystal's ballet lesson.

Lenin used slogans to great effect and it has been a successful tactic of the left ever since. "No war for oil", "Bush lied, people died", "hell no, we won't go" are all reductionist slogans that are of course largely meaningless but encapsulate whole subtexts within them. Its time the right twigged on to this tactic. It was brought home to me rather starkly yesterday when I whipped up and posted the following yesterday, thinking very little about it, only to wake up this am to find it all over the web in message boards as far away as New Zealand and Australia. It says very little, and I guess that makes it easy to understand. Sorry if it seems like I'm being a link whore: http://lighthorse.blogspot.com/2006/08/lets-stop-pretending_115532759897363790.html

asdfj24972 said...

Islamic extremism and terrorism is a threat to Europe and the Western world. However, the European terrorism mainly came from the populous immigrant communities inside Europe. These people were no threat to the Western world when they were 1. inside their native countries and 2. the western world (particularly US and Germany) was not supporting Israel in the centuries old blood feud between Jews and Muslims. (Which raises the question

I am strongly in support of free speech, and I decry what I see in Europe when historical revisionists are jailed for politically incorrect views. However, I would be highly suspicious of the people with Fleming Rose, the Jewish publisher responsible for printing those anti-Muslim cartoons. I would not be surprised if the major purpose of those cartoons were to inflame Muslims against Europeans, inciting them to violence and demonstrations, and in turn creating an anti-Muslim sentiment Europe, which mainly benefits Israel. As people who have dealt with controversial speech know, the right to voice a certain opinion does not demand that your voice be amplified to reach millions of people.

Scott said...

Baron, I think you are overlooking
some very important allies the US
has. Poland and Denmark aren't even
that engaged in the fight, at the
moment anyway. Australia is very
much on our side and its PM, John
Howard suffers no illusions either
about Islam or Islamic immigration.

The 800lbs gorilla no one seems to
notice though is India. While we in
the west have only just discovered
the violence and depradations of
Islam, Hindu India has experienced
it for centuries. They live next
door to the seething Islamic cess
pool that is Pakistan.

My guess is that someday, maybe in
the not too distant future, the
problem of Islam will be resolved
when an American army heading east
meets an Indian one heading west.

KG said...

"...the
problem of Islam will be resolved
when an American army heading east
meets an Indian one heading west. '

What a lovely, cheering thought! Thanks scott.

Fellow Peacekeeper said...

The overriding factor is not only an event, but also a generation change. Its no accident that Nazi Germany arose 20 years after the generation experienced WWI, collapse of the old order and universal disenfranchisement, or that the USSR lasted only barely longer than the WWII generation held on (20 y.o in 1940, retired age 65 in 1985 etc)

Militarize USA - something that touches everyone, and hiding in your suburb is no longer a viable option. A WMD event most likely . But even change will not be by this generation - the baby boomers will never change (fortunately they are on the verge of retirement), and I have unpleasant suspicions about the softness of Generation X and the MTV generation (in their hearts they want peace and multiculti hedonistic utopias). But I have great hopes for the Doom generation - internet access to real data during their formative years and ingrained instinctive killing responses.

Militarize Europe - wrong to generalize! Europe's strength has always been that one crap government couldn't bring down the whole continent (like has happened to China and Indian in history) - gods forbid that the EU continues to intensify power in Brussels. The event is the same - something that stops hiding in the suburbs a solution, but this would have to be on a per country basis. Figure that when the barbarians finally erupt from the banlieus and start looting some suburbs and small towns ... but the generation gap problemis the same as the US.

Figure it can resolve itself, its the 20-30 years gap between formative event and generation change thats the problem. Hold the line and play for time.

As for Russia - look into Russia's demographics and muslim problems - its atually MUCH worse than the next most threatened country in the EU.

Voyager said...

Zonka - very good post.....I am looking at your Blog.

Canker - simply de-criminalise the TV Licence by amending the legislation. Once the TV Licence becomes a civil not a criminal offence the BBC will have to prosecute itself and the principle will collapse. Thus the largest broadcaster in Europe will learn market realities.

Perhaps the US should slim down the CIA and create a new agency using former Delta Force as SOE types to infiltrate and destroy ? It will need to recruit Pakistanis since that rather fractious country is supplying most footsoldiers.

Perhaps too US politicians could stop leaking British Intelligence information to the Media. It is getting a lot of people here angry to hear American media telling us about things here which operational secrecy is keeping from our media.

One question..........in Oklahoma Timothy McVeigh caused an explosion; in Atlanta someone caused another at The Olympics...............just how effective is anti-terrorist intelligence work in the USA ?

Voyager said...

Its no accident that Nazi Germany arose 20 years after the generation
Yes but German re-militarization began in 1919 when General Von Seeckt arranged links with Frunze in the Soviet Union.........the Luftwafee, Heer set up training centres in Russia and factories were built in the USSR. Hitler ended military cooperation in 1933.

Fellow Peacekeeper said...

"Yes but German re-militarization began in 1919...in the Soviet Union"

Yes, exactly. The process started with the loss of WWI, but only culminated a generation later (in a manner Von Seeckt and cohort doubtless did not envisage). Cannot current "alliances" with Pakistan and Saudi Arabia (or Turkey and Egypt for that matter) be seen in the same light?

anti-uffe said...

"Fleming Rose, the Jewish publisher responsible for printing those anti-Muslim cartoons."

asdfj24972, where did you get the idea that Flemming Rose is "a Jewish publisher"? And if he were, what difference would his ethnicity/religion make? Was this something you read on a loony Muzzie conspiracy theory website?

M. Simon said...

Excellent piece Baron.

Loved the graphics.

Are We At War Yet?

Baron Bodissey said...

Scott --

Baron, I think you are overlooking some very important allies the US has.

I'm not overlooking Australia or India; I've written about them repeatedly. Australia is the staunchest ally the US has ever had.

But notice that TigerHawk's question asked only about the United States and Western Europe. In fact, I fudged it a little bit when I threw Poland into the mix.

Jesus Christ Supercop said...

Why is it taken for granted that the US will not be destroyed by the twin forces of uncontrolled illegal immigration and Islamofascism?

anti-uffe said...

JC Supercop, I don't think that can be ruled out, but the entire Western world apart from Europe has one major, major advantage: the collapse here in Europe will happen well before it happens in these locations. We are so much further down that road. If it doesn't happen before, surely TV images of constant rioting, rampant suicide terrorism and areas falling under sharia rule will shake the US, Australia and Canada from their slumber, and they will start rectifying the situation accordingly. Plus, your settler spirit ensures that once you wake up, you will know what to do. Yesterday I watched Tora, Tora, Tora about Pearl Harbour. The Japanese commander's closing line was something like "I fear that we may have awoken a sleeping giant." I have no doubt that could happen again.

Our downfall will, if nothing else, be your gain, I'm sure.

LHM said...

Oh my... so politically incorrect.

I love it.

One of your best posts ever!!!

Da Bear said...

JC Supercop,

Our 2nd amendment, and the 200 million firearms in our citizens hands will stop any takeover in this country.

However,you concern for illegal immigration causing severe problems is spot on.

Da Bear

asdfj24972 said...

If you want to see where I'm coming from, here are two important articles written on the subject of the Danish cartoons:

Secularist Stupidity and Religious Wars
Classic Buchanan

Why Denmark Must Issue a Formal Apology to Muslims
Exposes Flemming Rose, proposes the Zionist theory.

anti-uffe said...

That is what I thought. Nazi alert, Nazi alert.

geoffgo said...

I haven't heard much on the tactics we can employ as a nation to blunt the effects of incidents like "closing the Straights."

While, I understand the sentiment behind rationing, it demobilizes the populace. Bad; e.g., insurgents just shoot the station attendants to get the gas they need to go their last XX miles. Same applies to weapons, no limitation is good for the citizenry.

There are an infinite number of ways to conserve, before we consider limiting access to fuel. First will be market pricing; e.g., it will go up in price until fewer folks buy it.

Next, we can look to changing the workday; we can immediately shift to 10 hr-days, 4 days per week, saving somewhere up to 15% of the daily consumption.

Then, we can accelerate into high gear vis a vis exploiting the Net; e.g., proactively encouraging and enabling every job that can be remotely accomplished, to be done so. 1-2-3-4 days per week from home, adds up fast.

Telecommuting is a good idea anyway, econony-wise, employee-wise, management-wise, quality-of-life-wise and security-wise. Distributing risk. And, as a by-product would save ever-more millions of gallons per day, while re-enforcing and improving the network to our advantage, instead of to the advantage of the last-time-flyers from muslim countries.

Of course the higher price also encourages car-pooling and teleconferencing.

These and many more opportunities for self-imposed conservation rapidly emerge in such an environment, like more right-turn-on-red, intelligent traffic signals, and harsher enforcement of scoff law parkers and pedestrian stupidity (e.g., those who assume the statutes can instantly stop a 1 ton mass moving at 40MPH, as they step into traffic, while keeping their gaze averted...you know the type) and those a**h*les who cross against my light. $250 fine, doubling each time, national database for collection. Civil behavior.

With the emergence of bio, electric and hybrids, and the improvements in natural gas and coal, wind, thermal, tidal, solar, etc, the US can cut consumption by half in 5 years, if we just put our minds to it. Of course,we'll need to overcome the bias/inertia/ legalities of the status quo, like some union rules and gov't policies.

And, we don't want to be burdened by a higher-per-gallon tax, to be squandered by the worthless pols. We the People are trying to get serious here!

Lastly of course, we can move on to the thorny issues surrounding protected species-other-than- us-citizens, scenic impediments and carribou reproduction rates versus energy-independence.

Home owners can force the gov't to build a sound & sight barrier because they don't want to look at/hear the interstate highway, but we can't put drilling rigs miles off the coast? Seriously?

Before we talk of rationing, we should demand the conversation become rational.

No new nukes online til we deal with jihad.

Fight'em over there, and faster please.

John Van Laer said...

...we battled the Nips and the Krauts..." Wince? Nah. By August of '45, the Japs and the Krauts had taken more months out of my life than I had years in my CV. The new wave of jihadism is a greater threat to civilization than the Axis ever dreamed of being. Sleep on, fat dumb and happy Murrica, land of Alfred E. Neumann.

Jesus Christ Supercop said...

anti-uffe, it's possible that seeing Europe (or parts of it at least) go down might wake up other countries, but don't count on it. Multiculturalists have an endless amount of excuses. They could just claim that Europeans were being racist and oppressive, and the Muslims are just fighting for freedom. Hey, it works for the Palestinians.

asdfj24972 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
asdfj24972 said...

Nazi, nazi, nazi? is that as far as counterarguments go?

If I wanted to read name calling, quotes taken out of context, empty arguments and various other ADL talking points I could read Benjamin Shapiro's response: Pat Buchanan, fifth columnist

The basic response is essentially this: Israel's problems are not the problems of the Western world. Hamas does not threaten us. The Islamic world is too enormous to take on and continuing to do so increases the threat of terrorism against the Western world, specifically America. Withdrawing from the middle east militarily and taking a "fair and balanced" approached to the Israel/Palestine question, regardless of what small but vociferous group thinks, will decrease the threat of terrorism. If that sounds implausible to you, perhaps because you have not looked beyond George Bush's patently false explanation of 9/11: "They hate us because of our freedom." Osama bin Laden himself refuted that by posing the question, to paraphrase, "Ask yourself why we attacked the United States and not Sweden."

Yes, it is because of America's policies. And to realize that is not a leftist point of view. It is a very conservative, in fact, to desire to avoid entangling alliances with other nations and interests that are harmful. It only looks leftist to an out-and-out unapologetic Neoconservative, who many of which are merely former Trostkyites and liberals who decided to dress up as conservatives by offering token gestures to conservative demands while adopting a hawkish foriegn policy -- that is, a foriegn policy that works for the benefit of Israel.

The point is: We, the gentile, non-Zionist Western peoples, don't want to be involved in the Jews' and Muslims age-old animosities. Why, though, do most Americans, according to polls, support Israel's actions? Because unfortunately, in the United States, the media is owned by the massive corporate interests who can be persuaded to push a point of view if it helps their bottom line. We also have bought-and-paid-for politicians and a Christian Zionist religious base that are absolutely convinced that Israel is the best thing since sliced bread.

Finally, to those worried about the safety of the Jews should American support dissapear: the Jews don't have to stay on that tiny little plot of sand surrounded by hostile Arabs -- they can move back into Europe where everybody loves them. Germany, still being so guilty, may even offer to settle the many Israelis into their own territory.

onesimus said...

asdfg24972

Here is what Churchill said, in its entirety about the horrific battle to wrest the Sudan from the jihadists of the 19th century:

“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.”

—Sir Winston Churchill, from The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50 (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899).


As found at noleftturns Monday, July 25, 2005

Mr. Spog said...

Read some of the posts at this blog about Sweden, asdf..., and you might grasp why Osama saw no need to attack it.

unaha-closp said...

There is no need to militarize, the enemy (Iran & Saudi) is so patheticaly weak. All that is required is to find the will to act.

asdfj24972 said...

That's a good one mr. spog, but I think bin Laden is clear on this. Here is the transcript straight from the horse's mouth.

Excerpt:

"Contrary to what [President George W.] Bush says and claims -- that we hate freedom --let him tell us then, "Why did we not attack Sweden?" It is known that those who hate freedom don't have souls with integrity, like the souls of those 19. May the mercy of God be upon them.

We fought with you because we are free, and we don't put up with transgressions. We want to reclaim our nation. As you spoil our security, we will do so to you.

...

But after the injustice was so much and we saw transgressions and the coalition between Americans and the Israelis against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it occurred to my mind that we deal with the towers. And these special events that directly and personally affected me go back to 1982 and what happened when America gave permission for Israel to invade Lebanon. And assistance was given by the American sixth fleet.

...

And as I was looking at those towers that were destroyed in Lebanon, it occurred to me that we have to punish the transgressor with the same -- and that we had to destroy the towers in America so that they taste what we tasted, and they stop killing our women and children.

We found no difficulties in dealing with the Bush administration, because of the similarities of that administration and the regimes in our countries, half of which are run by the military and half of which are run by monarchs. And our experience is vast with them.

...

And [Bush] moved the tyranny and suppression of freedom to his own country, and they called it the Patriot Act, under the disguise of fighting terrorism. And Bush, the father, found it good to install his children as governors and leaders."

Friday, October 29, 2004


Regarding the paragraph about Lebanon.. history seems doomed to repeat itself.

David said...

Osama bin Laden himself refuted that by posing the question, to paraphrase, "Ask yourself why we attacked the United States and not Sweden."

udging from Fjordman's reports he doesn't attack Sweden because he believes that he can take it without a fight.

asdfj24972 said...

Yes, mr. spog made that point. It's an interesting theory, but bin Laden was speaking two years ago, before these reports -- and if you read the rest of the transcript, assuming bin Laden is being honest, the tone is not that of conquest but the desire of taking foriegn influence out of Muslim lands. I don't know what bin Laden thinks of Muslims living in Europe.