Thursday, August 16, 2012

Yet Another Modest Proposal

The Vintner
Summer Fundraiser 2012, Day Three

The theme of this fundraiser week is our discontents, of which I have a slew. And if I tried to list all the Subjects of Outrage that come through our emails, it would be a scroll rolling out of my hand and unfolding past the open door. In other words, right long and dreary.

Today I thought I’d get controversial, pruning this harvest back a bit by addressing a few hot-button items surrounding human reproduction. Though my intention is not to get everybody riled, it’ll probably happen anyway.

Tip jarI think of our Fundraising Weeks as borderlands and sacred time. It’s not a time-out by any means, but as each donor comes by — many of them familiar names — I am pulled in again to the personal, to the individuals who open the Gates and stop to read what’s on offer. At about that point, all the posts I’ve thought about and let go as off-topic, or too contentious, or too enervatingly what’s-the-use… they all fly in, uninvited and sit here on my shoulders as I type.

So what is my motivation in discussing these in particular? Yes, like all motivations, they’re complicated. These are issues and events that weigh on my mind. Your reactions may be different, but we live in a world that reels from the electric charge of third-rail untouchable problems and then staggers on to a kind of numbed ennui: it is all too much to think about, much less resolve with any sense of equanimity.

And yet they won’t go away.

No, there won’t be a big RESET knobs on these dilemmas; they’re far too complex and have been hanging around too long to admit of any resolution. Sometimes I find them too knotted and disordered to even bear thinking about for too long.

*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *

Be ye fruitful and multiply is so out of fashion now that for many people the mate-and-replace rituals aren’t comprehensible any longer. People have stopped asking their thirty-and-forty-something friends, “so where are the babies?” That question was always bad form in the best of times; now it is social suicide. In certain circles of the intelligentsia — the circles Dante described so well — it never occurs to many adults to found a family. Or rather, it seems to them akin to a prison term. “Me? A family? For what??” would be one response. They’re way too wise and knowing to fall for anything so predictable and confining and ultimately boring. Or meaningless.

But nature abhors a vacuum, etc. — so some of the eternal verities, ones that a few of us thought were hard-wired into the human heart have been replaced with a higher ethical standard: DIE OUT, HUMANS. Thus you will find websites proposing we return the earth to her human-free utopian origins. Whatever.

They’re the ones who Visualize Industrial Collapse. I’ve seen ’em but I won’t link to ’em. Instant dystopia dressed up with a pretty picture of earth as seen from space. Make that camera shot far enough away and our human home looks invitingly empty and serene to the Die Outs.

No babies = no garbage

Here’s an argument for the other side, a plea to the young people in Singapore:

He’s right to be concerned. Singapore is at the very bottom of the population losers — and those above Singapore are a dismal lot indeed.

Immigrants? Sure. But he’s one-of-those: he wants the population to be closer to his own DNA than the immigrants are. And he’s old enough and influential enough to say that with impunity. But his wise words to the young will be ignored. Unless there is a good reason to reproduce — a reason stronger and more captivating than the idea of accumulating more stuff and doing more exciting things than watching a kid or two grow up — they aren’t going to hear him over the din of those endlessly distracting pleasures. Rome redux? Yep.

The easiest way to ensure that one escapes the captivity of children is abortion. Wait, it’s not the easiest way — various forms of birth control serve that purpose. But if you want to be all spontaneous and go with the flow of the moment, then various forms of fetal removal will have their appeal.

Abortion has become a “settled consensus” according to the Militant Left. Except it’s not settled at all. Certainly you can choose your stats on this purported consensus, but the polls are surprisingly complex. In the final analysis, 52% of Americans think abortion is “morally wrong”. That doesn’t mean the respondents wouldn’t undergo the procedure or refuse to help another — but they’re caught on the horns of a dilemma and so they answer honestly: “in the best of all possible worlds”, or, “other things being equal” , or, “this is so hard.”

The debate is heating up, though. If it had been left to the states to decide —as it should have been — we’d live a different moral environment now. But the Supremes ruled on Roe vs. Wade in favor of abortion, and that was supposed to be that. Only it wasn’t. And it isn’t — or it isn’t if you live outside the Leftist echo chamber. For many of us — our President not among them — “late-term abortion” is wrong. Period. Past a certain point — and heaven knows the process of pregnancy is a fast-moving target — the average American finds abortion unacceptable.

I’m not going to decide what that point is — you’ve long made up your mind — as I have.

I will say that an undergraduate philosophy thesis, required from that department for graduation, changed my mind for me. Assigned the topic of “Abortion: For or Against” sent me deep into the stacks to find material on this ugly subject. Roe vs. Wade was still new enough, and my advisor sly enough, that I was soon wallowing in the conflicting arguments.

They ran the gamut from “a simple procedure to remove foreign tissue” right on up to “ensouled at the moment of conception”. I went back to my advisor, heaving with anger. First of all, he’d upset my airy “woman’s freedom” position, one I’d arrived at because it didn’t require much reflection. Secondly, I didn’t have a way to order these arguments into any reasonable system. Which was his point, no doubt. Darn the man: I was going to have to think my way to the door if I wanted out of there.

In the final analysis I could only conclude that we simply do NOT know. And when in doubt, the safest moral road is to refrain from an action that can’t be undone. However that simplistic solution didn’t begin to cover the complexities of real life. So in my summation, I backed up to point out the ways in which women got stuck. We don’t live in a culture which values children or mothers. It sells them lots of stuff, but that’s not the same thing. We don’t make it easy to be a competent parent. “So you have three kids. So what. Tell me what you do” No, I didn’t make that up — but it was only ever demanded of me by other women. There is only one more aggressive attitude, and that’s the one Obama holds: he’d have his daughters submit to a late-term abortion rather than deliver a child. That’s downright ugly.

In other words, I’m with those fifty-two percent of Americans in the Pew Report: abortion is wrong. However, it is often the only choice among a plethora of ugly alternatives because that’s how we’ve designed our culture. Or rather, how our culture designed itself around our decisions.

I always admired my mother for putting her money where her mouth was: she was militantly pro-choice, down to wearing those Jesus t-shirts. In addition, though, she took in pregnant girls who’d decided not to abort but needed a place to hide out until the baby was born and adopted and they could return to school from their “semester abroad”. I never asked, but I think it was Momma’s way of compensating for her own sorrow at not being able to have more children.

I don’t like abortion clinics but I don’t like the protestors that show up in front of them either. There was one solution I found admirable, however: an Episcopal parish whose decision to do something seems elegant: they rented a studio apartment not far from an abortion clinic in their area. In that small room they kept silent vigil, praying for the patients, the staff, the protestors, the would-have-been babies, the lost fathers, the missing grandparents — in other words, everyone involved. Around the clock at least two people kept vigil, lighting candles and offering prayers. For those who believe in the efficacy of prayer, it’s an elegant solution to an aching sadness.

Meanwhile, the arguments get uglier and more blatant. I suppose you’ve all seen the “ugly black baby” video by now?

It’s hard to hear the conversation, so this site has a transcript of sorts, along with additional information:

Activists with Operation Save America (OSA) recently confronted Charlotte, NC abortionist, Ashutosh Virmani, who promptly explained why he didn’t harbor any reservations aborting “ugly black babies” Consistently referring to the targets of his abortions as babies vice fetuses, Virmani justified the practice with:

“Don’t put it on the taxpayer, OK?

I don’t wish to pay for the babies with my money.”

Referencing the white, middle-class Aurora, Colorado, accused movie theater mass killer, Virmani can also be heard stating on the video:

“I as a taxpayer do not wish to pay for those babies to be born and brought up; and kill those people in Colorado.”

Eventually, the abortionist declared:

“Let me see you adopt one of those ugly black babies.”

One of the OSA activists responded by stating:

“Give us a chance to adopt them.”

Pulling no punches, the President of the National Black Pro-Life Union, Dr. Day Gardner stated in a press release:

“It’s all too obvious that he had a particular disgust for black babies and therefore has no problem killing them.”

Dr. Gardner went on to state:

“The black community should be outraged because Ashutosh Virmani is a brazen racist and his statement supports what we already know of the billion dollar abortion industry — black babies are targeted because they are seen as poor, worthless and maybe even ‘ugly.’”

Somehow, I don’t think the “black community” is outraged about it. Too many things that white people do for them to spend any ‘rage’ on this. Come to think of it, has the good Dr. Gardner ever taken in a pregnant girl?? Interestingly, a group came to light as a result of this that I’d not heard of before: The National Black Pro-Life Union:

Last year, black pastor Rev. Wayne Perryman filed suit against Obama and the Democrat National Committee “for its history of racism against blacks, which he notes has never elicited an apology.”

“Any organization that has such a racist history and receives 97% of the African American vote (after doing all they could to deny blacks the right to vote), should willingly apologize without being forced do so through a lawsuit. The man who authored the book, The Audacity of Hope, now has the ‘audacity’ to refuse to apologize for his political party and their racist institutions, that took the lives of millions of his own people.”

I didn’t google this lawsuit, but again, the MSM has long since covered that one over with cat litter. I admire Perryman for trying, though.

*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *

I do have a solution of sorts, though. One that might satisfy Obama’s unseemly grab for campaign funds, and give his ACORN acolytes something useful to do. Just the kind of community organizing he’d like. Sort of. Not only that, it would make those young white OSA kids happy. You’ll see why I it’s a Win-Win-Win.

I call this “Yet Another Modest Proposal” and I’ll be honest — it makes the Baron nervous. The fact that he hasn’t kiboshed this section of the post speaks to his courage — or his indifference to our purported “reputation”? Or perhaps his deep fatigue?

At any rate, I’ll take it as a given that y’all know about the Obama’s tacky “Event Registry”. It shouts “the Chicago Way” as soon as you open the page. See, the idea is, you don’t need your birthday presents or those useless wedding gifts. Or at least you don’t need them as desperately as he needs the money you could give to him instead. I’m not clear on whether you could send on the presents and they’d hawk them or not. I know they have been selling items here and there, in addition to actual (shudder) face time with the First Couple.

And we know Obama has put a lot of people off with his enthusiasm for late-term abortions. So perhaps we could solve a few problems at one go with my modest proposal…okay, my bold proposal. Deep breath here and on to the scenario…

This has to be executed in a red hot hurry if they want it to work in time for campaign money, however. Time’s a-wastin’, so it had better be off that “procedure” table at the abortion clinic and out the door to avoid a “late termination”.

Wait, wait: hear me out. This could be a real money-making venture.

First off, Obama could get his community organizers in ACORN to approach, say, seven-month pregnant women in abortion clinics or welfare offices who are about to terminate their babies problems..

Instead, his ACORNS could “suggest” my attractive win-win-win alternative.

Here’s how it might go:


ACORN: “Honey, you’re almost done with this big boo-boo. So why not just go ahead on through with it this time and then sign over this baby — umm, fetus — to us instead. I just talked with the President and he really wants your baby. Yeah, I know what he said, before, but this is different.

See, think about this: we can auction her off give her to a loving family. That way, let me be clear here, the President makes a gift to people who want what’s in your belly, even if you don’t.

PREGNANT WOMAN: But he be selling her to people. That’s not right. And I got to get rid of this…

No! Of course he wouldn’t sell her! What an idea.! That’s illegal. But you’re almost through anyway so why not wait a few weeks more.? Look how grateful those childless couples would be to the President you love if he gave them some babies. Those voters would be grateful to him forever …oh yeah, they’d be grateful to you! Fer sure, honey. And all those crazy pro-lifers, they’d have to get in line to vote for him. And you’d be the one who did it!

So where was I? Oh, right: they’d vote him back in and we’ll…why we’ll give you a medal for your great sacrifice here. See? Everyone benefits! Wouldn’t you like a medal? What if it were solid gold and you could pawn it show it to all your friends? Your very own personal honor, better’n any old soldier could do. He just dies for his country. You’d be giving Obama new life…

PREGNANT WOMAN: I ain’t goin’ to no detox for this.

ACORN: No worries there. We’ll even fix you up for a bit…What? Yeah, sure, we’ll detox her first before we pass her on to those folks. But that’s between you and me, honey. What crazy white folks don’t know can’t hurt ’em, right?

*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *

Another thought:

There’s a shockwave about to hit the ABC leagues, i.e., the Planned Parenthood and Breast Cancer alignment. The book, isn’t out yet, but the buzz is. Predictions are that a lot of PP dirty laundry will be aired. Just in time for the election… Planned Bullyhood.

It’s not an October surprise. More like a September distraction.

*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *

Today was a good Fundraising Day for us. Maybe not by Obama’s standards, but Vlad’s share is looking real fine, and for us, I’m going to be checking out hand-pumped wells — but that’s another discontent for another post. Let’s just say that the Baron and I have been “discussing” the subject for a right long while. With some savings and luck we could maybe swing it…

But then again, perhaps I should do the Norwegian mother — another one who is lying on her bed of Norwegian nails, caught between her love for her child and her deep-brain multi-culti beliefs. Or maybe the Bridegrooms should be first…

Meanwhile, a big THANK YOU to our donors, who came from:

Stateside: California, Florida, Illinois, Ohio, Oklahoma, and Virginia

Near Abroad: Canada

Far Abroad: Australia, Israel, Sweden, Sweden, and the UK

One even did an encore! Bravo!

Hat tip: Urban Infidel for that no-babies image.

The tip jar in the text above is just for decoration. To donate, click the tin cup on our sidebar, or the donate button. If you prefer a monthly subscription, click the “subscribe” button.


Baron Bodissey said...

Yes, I left in everything Dymphna decided to say -- I just put in the image tags and corrected all the typos I saw.

This is going to be a contentious post, and may well draw a lot of comments. However, it's almost 4am now, and Dymphna and I are about to go to bed. So if your comment doesn't get approved immediately, it doesn't necessarily mean it was deleted; it just means we're still sawing wood.

Anonymous said...

Yeesh! And, Dymphna was so upset that I linked to a NAACP business letter at the KKK website - which was the only place on the internet to post that NAACP letter. Yeesh!

So, with a simple link I 'damage' your blog whereas a KKK-compatible parody doesn't?!

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

I am all for parody, but I thought that you would go a different way with it. For example, a registry where Obama would pay for women's expenses - where Obama might do something for someone other than himself - for someone helpless.


Dymphna said...

@ Egghead--

Yeah, I know. I'm not consistent. I don't even remember the KKK thing but it would still freak me.

I'm not always congruent either. Too much bigotry witnessed up real close in my childhood. I still have bad dreams sometimes, even though all those ppl must be long dead by now...

I cannot imagine a parody where Obama helps anyone but Obama. That is a fairy tale, not a parody.

Anonymous said...

The reason poor Dymphna couldn't
resolve the abortion issue in her own mind is that she clearly has NO PRINCIPLES. I've only got half a brain but even I know right from wrong, the right of the 'thing's'
life over the rights of the carrier. It is so simple. You get pregnant, YOU ARE GONNA HAVE A BABY. I believe the state should 100% safeguard the right to life of the foetus/baby.You made your choice when you opened your legs, now stick with it.GAME OVER!!!!!!!

Nilk said...

Obama pay for or do something for someone else?? Egghead, you jest!

On the topic of abortion, the more I learn, the more I abhor it.

The more I learn of christianity, and the pro-life reasoning that comes along with traditional catholicism in particular, I find I am getting more angry with the mindset that uses abortion as prophylaxis.

The suggestion of abstinence, or chastity, in discussion with other parents tends to raise eyebrows and sometimes hackles because oh, the children need to be aware of what it's all about.

Unless we're talking keeping legs closed and pants on, that is.

I'll go you one better than abortion though, Dymphna. I am developing a real distaste for what's become known as assisted reproductive technology.

I got my copy of Anonymous Father's Day last week. It makes a powerful statement about donor conception and the ethics that surround it.

Anonymous said...

The more a person adopts Leftist thinking and values the greater the chance they will remain childless and or have abortions. Leftism is not pro-family, it's decidedly anti-family, with a dose of hedonism and nilihilism thrown in good measure.

Look at the demographics of White Leftists and Leftist European states, they are dying out. They really can't stand each other and with the rise of militant feminism on our college campuses the women learn to hate themselves and all men. Millions of new spinster cat ladies in the making.

There is a reason why the Left is called the Culture of Death. Take a look at some major leftists. How many have families. Most you will find have none.

Heikki Polojärvi said...

Logically thinking, in the matter of abortion there are two conflicting basic human rights. Firstly, a human being has the right to decide what happens to her body. That is, of course, undeniable. If a person had no right to decide what happens to his/her body it would be only a step away from slavery. Secondly, a human being has the basic right to excist. If a human had no right to excist, it would be essentially the same as the nazies' gas chambers and ovens. Both of these rights are undeniable, but in the matter of pregnancy, they conflict.

So, there follows a question of when a human being becomes a human being? Is every semen and every egg cell a partial human being? There's little chance to avoid losing a whole lot of those, f.ex. for the sheer difference in numbers. Is a fertilized egg cell a human being? doesn't look like one, but it's a potential human being, yes. However, a single cell is not a human, merely a potential one.

So, where should the line be drawn? When does a human become a human, and therefore, killing him becomes a murder? When the fetus developes a heart? A heart is just another muscle. A nerve system? Brains? liver? lungs? all of those are needed for the fetus to be able to live. But is the ability to survive the solution? A newborn baby is not able to survive without care, nor until he/she grows up to at least puberty.

Logic will not give any answer to this, for logic can handle only measurable or definite facts like yes, no, else or if.

Therefore, the only logical answer to the "right" of abortion is the emotional one, an opinion. The "right" to an abortion will be determined by the general opinion, and for the general opinion to excist, we will have to voice out our own. So here goes: I feel that abortion is at most nine months away from murder. Therefore, an abortion is, in the least, a potential murder. There would have to be very serious reasons to commit a murder, even a potential one. Also, if a human is conceived in a perfectly normal way, people should have the spine to take responsibility of their actions. If that responsibility is not required, it will never develop.

P.S. you think your situation is bad in the U.S.? Take a look at the Russia. There, recently, barrels full of dead fetuses were discovered in a woods. (I'd like to say something about that to end up with, but i can't, just can't find the words for that. Usually I can think up some way to say what I feel about about things, but right now, I can't find any).

Heikki Polojärvi said...

"measurable or definite facts, and operators like yes, no, else or if"

Dymphna said...

Anon said:

The reason poor Dymphna couldn't
resolve the abortion issue in her own mind is that she clearly has NO PRINCIPLES

What is even clearer is a tendency to make global assertions without backing them up. Sad.

I actually DID resolve the issue; you didn't read my argument closely if that's all you got out of it.

Grown-ups realize that just as there is a calculus of happiness there is also a calculus of evil. The either-or argument is the one without principle and it is of absolutely NO help to women who are stuck with horrific choices.

I hate abortion. The Abortion Industry lies about the risks & possibly harmful consequences of this "simple procedure".

A few years ago, two separate abortion 'clinics' were successfully sued by two young women who were NOT informed of the possible sequelae for prima gravida induced abortions in girls and women with a BRCA gene in their family - from the maternal side, iirc. Somehow the subject just never came up in their pre-abortion "counseling". And no, the parents didn't know what these youngsters were doing.

The risk they weren't told about is the possible development of a very aggressive form of breast cancer. The only "cure" right now is prophylactic double mastectomies well ahead of any signs of cancer.

The clinics settled out of court to avoid publicity. Duh. Now, when I try to find those stories they seem to have disappeared. How odd. I only remember that they were in the far west, possibly Washington state.

If abortionists and their promoters were honest dealers, they'd be talking about this. Instead, uninformed women and girls are left to their fate in the name of some ersatz "freedom".

No one discusses the rise in various oral cancers either, though some scientists think they can be traced to a history of many sexual partners combined with an increase in oral sex among these many people.

The safest, most prudent course for avoiding diseases and many attendant societal ills is monogamous marriage - preceded by mutual virginity. Now there's a REAL principle for you - but we won't see it as a "norm" ever again.

Even as a principle honored in the breach more often than not, it functioned as a kind of brake on licentiousness. The brakes have been burned away and we're skidding downhill.

So, anon, I'll meet you out behind the woodshed at sunrise. Bring your principals and your choice of weapons...

Dymphna said...

@ Heikki Polojärvi:

Yes. Agreed.

We don't train our children to reason from principle but from "feelings". Like, if it "feels right", ya know, go for it.

And then they get to junctures at which NOTHING feels right. Not having had any moral training they're stuck - which is why the # of late-term abortions is increasing.

When you say,

Therefore, an abortion is, in the least, a potential murder. There would have to be very serious reasons to commit a murder, even a potential one... that sums up, almost word for word, part of the conclusion of my undergraduate paper. I added that since we don't KNOW in the scientific sense, as a culture we're better off erring on the side of doubt. IOW, for the sake of argument, what if one day we were able to say at precisely what point the fetus is a human being? How would we undo all those murders that had occurred AFTER that now-defined point?

But I also considered how our culture treats babies, old people, the mentally ill, etc: our vulnerables. A pregnant woman from an abusive family and without a father for her child is in a dangerous situation. Thus the calculus of evil...

...the longer one studies family formation, the more humble one becomes in the face of its unalterable realities, the ones we've been busy shoving under the rug because they're too hard to face.

Divorce is another of those evils we accept w/ far too much equanimity. Despite the studies showing the harm it does, the "consensus" continues to be "I gotta be me"...

As long as the Left controls what gets "studied", and punishes those researchers who come up with findings that cut across the grain of whatever "truth" is currently on offer, it can be physically and emotionally dangerous to heed the "experts".

Heikki Polojärvi said...

Thank you for your response, Dymphna.

i have thought of the consequesces of abortion/not aborting, and since there are two conflicting basic human rights involved there can be no reasonable, universal solution.

The more either one of those rights are emphasized, the less important the other one will be. Wherever you draw the line, there will be cases where the line-drawing has gone horribly wrong.

Victims of rape, incest, cases when the child is severy disabled and the family has no possibility to care for him, cases when pregnancy would seriously endanger the mother's survival..

Versus abortion used as a prophylactic method. Logically, since both rights considered are axiomatic and equally strong, this extremity is as bad as the former one.

Nilk said...

Regarding the 'right' of a woman to do what she will with her body, where is the corresponding discussion of her 'responsibility' towards her body?

Surely she cannot be making informed decisions or choices if she does not cover the possible outcomes of her behaviour?

I know I'm turning into a grumpy old hag these days but I don't care. It's all care and no responsibility these days, and health problems as Dymphna mentions above rarely seem to be on the radar for discussion in all the classes for young people.

How can you call it choice if you don't know what you're doing? And why does someone else have to lose their life because you didn't know or care enough to behave responsibly?

(And, yes, here's the obligatory caveat about rape, incest and the rest. Tell the children who survive an incest or rape pregnancy that they should have been aborted and ask how they feel.)

Anonymous said...

On the contrary, there is not an 'obvious caveat' about rape or incest.If my 14 year old beautiful,blond, blue-eyed daughter was raped by the ugliest, most brutal Sub-Saharan,and
got pregnant, it would still be wrong to abort.A PRINCIPLE IS A

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous. "I believe the state should 100% safeguard the right to life of the foetus/baby.You made your choice when you opened your legs, now stick with it.GAME OVER!!!!!!!" Except not all women get a choice in "spreading their legs" as you put it. Incidentally, do men ever think they should be responsible for the result of their couplings. You can bet your bottom dollar they don't. What about consequences for men? Don't hold your breath!

Before contraception and abortion techniques were developed, women had fairly effective ways of inducing spontaneous abortion and there is no doubt they would do so again should abortion or contraception become illegal, as I believe the Republicans are proposing (despite one hypocrite among them allowing his wife to have an abortion because of the threat to her health - and then saying other women should be denied this right). The life of the foetus does not have a right over the life of the mother and I agree with the logic and reason that a woman should be able to, in some circumstances, have an abortion.

I know it is rather different in the US but here in UK religion has gone out of the window. One can get a partner over the internet during one's lunch hour. If the act of creation is treated with such gung ho, then why not the creation itself?

There is very little we can do about Caucasian folks' attitudes to family - I feel we are far too far down the road of self-serving now.

As a white female who had her first two (twins) at the age of 30, but desired a family from my early 20s, the thing that put me off was the shallow, uncouth and immature attitudes of my male contemporaries. All my boyfriends in my 20s were not fit to father children.

Dymphna said...

Here we go...again. It never stops:

should abortion or contraception become illegal, as I believe the Republicans are proposing


This is not a matter for the courts. And Dr. Guttmacher & his ilk admitted they lied under oath to the Supreme Court.

Back when divorce was difficult, individuals moved to Nevada for six weeks adn got their divorce. Next came "no fault" and children were treated like baggage - not much better than fetuses.

We respect nothing, not even ourselves.

BTW, women knew where abortions could be had locally and which docs were willing to perform them. A local doctor, long since gone the way of all flesh, performed thousands of them.

Dymphna said...

BTW, gays and lesbians can thank the surly aggressivesness of the abortion law lobby for the difficulty they face in getting approval for their unions.

People saw the extremes to which 'the law' carried abortion and it scared them. Had that not happened, had abortion evolved, gays and lesbs would not be facing the pushback that the abortion industry should've had to shoulder.

In Holland recently, a trio marriage made the papers. Ethnic Dutch...that scares anyone but the Netherlands...