Steen has a twenty-minute video of Dr. Pipes speaking to Danish Jews about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The footage is very dark, because Steen didn’t want to put bright lights into his visitor’s eyes, but the sound is clear. I’ve rescued a few stills from the darkness to post here.Steen’s account of the visit, “Daniel Pipes møder danske jøder”, is up at Snaphanen, but it’s in Danish. The talk itself is in English.
A quote:
“Either Israel will give up, and say, ‘Zionism was a nice idea, but it lost’; [that is] either there is no Israel, or there is, in effect an Israel that is really Palestine; there is no longer a Jewish state — or — the enemies of Israel, the Arabs in particular, will accept Israel, and say, ‘We don’t like it; we wish it weren’t there, but it’s there.’ In other words, either Israel ceases to exist, and the Arabs win, or Israel is accepted by the Arabs, and it is no longer at war.Those are the key elements. Those are the true possible outcomes. Compromise and mediation have proven to be a failure.”
[Nothing follows]
7 comments:
what about option 3? To paraphrase John Derbyshire over at National Review: "One day, the Palistinians will do something so horrible, it kills many Israelis (on the order of 100k+). In response, the Israelis annihilate the Palistinians and destroy a number of Arab population centers. Then there shall be peace for 200 years.
I suspect Derb is right and that is how the conflict will be resolved.
To HILN:
(Love the nic, by the way):
The third option is the nuking of Israel by Iran. This is what the Islamic world and the Europeans want. This is why Europe does nothing to stop the Iranians. They want the Jews gone from this planet every bit as much as Ahmedinejad or Hamas.
Once that happens, I suspect that Israel will indeed wipe out much of the Islamic world and the oil installations.
But by then it is too late. Hitler will have won his final victory.
Zero, I would remind you of that old dictum, never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by stupidity. Iran, yes, their leaders are certainly quite keen on removing Israel, but this entity you keep calling "europe" (and I must stress that there is no such country as "europe" no matter how much certain people insist otherwise) is not 100% geared toward destroying israel, the jews or anything else and is in fact entirely concerned with creating some sort of socialist utopia to, in their words, "prevent war" and a whole bunch of other pap. The actions of the EU and various european states must be judged in that light, and appeasing Iran is - wrongly - seen as a way to reduce the threat of islam to the west. Stupidity and arrogance are the rule of the day here, not some urge to try and destroy every last jew.
Or would you argue that your own state department also wants to see the jews destroyed? US foreign policy is currently to passively accept the EU appeasement drive and, until recently, the US actively encouraged that effort. By extension of your argument I could start to claim that the whole of America is out to get the jews as well.
Of course the truth is, the US still has some sort of latent need to pander to the UN, for whatever reason but, also, supporting the EU 3 whilst re-organising and manouvering military assets allows more time for the US to prepare to face down Iran with the threat of military intervention. The EU, meanwhile, wants to be seen as the big negotiator - it is, in fact, looking for a purpose as it currently has none, and is trying to find that purpose by achieving the impossible and bringing about a negotiated peace in the middle east. Of course it will fail, because they refuse to accept Ahmadinejad at his word, but that's entirely because of stupidity and arrogance on their part as I said right at the beginning of this rant, and if you'd get yourself out of this "europeans all hate jews" thing for five minutes and rationally analyse the situation you'd be able to see that too.
Archonix:
A recent poll by the BBC shows that the world hates Israel more than any other nation. The Germans, who butchered half the world's Jews just 60 years ago, have a negative image of Israel and Jews as bad as that of the Islamofascist nations (that is to say, any Muslim nation).
The great difference by far in world view between Europe and America is over Israel. Europeans have been taught, perhaps even bred, for over 1000 years that all problems are caused by Jews - plague, depression, famine, terrorism -- you name it -- they instinctively blame the Jews for it.
Those Europeans who left for America are those who felt that their destiny was in their own hands, not controlled by some poor tiny, persecuted minority. Hence Europeans have an insatiable, irrational hatred of Jews, and by extension, Israel.
A recent poll in the USA found that by 59-20, Americans think the problem between Israel and the Palestinian Islamofascists is the fault of the Islamofascists.
This difference in attitude toward Israel and the Jews is so vast, and so fundamental to the worldviews of America and Europe, that the gap is simply no longer bridgeable. By their hatred of Jews, Europe has placed itself on the side of the Islamofascists. The growth of Islam in Europe worsens this, but even if the Muslim population were not growing, the European hatred of Jews is so fundamental to European culture that it would make them pro-Islamofascist in any case. Some of the countries, after all, with few Muslims -- Greece and Spain -- are among the most virulently anti-Semitic and anti-Israel.
A recent poll by the BBC
Shows nothing. They asked 20,000 people. There are 4 billion people in the world. The poll only proves that the BBC is willing to take anything that proves their thesis about Israel and the US being the cause of all evil, it proves absolutely nothing about what people actually think.
The rest of your post is simply a rehash of points already made and demolished by myself and others here, so I'm not going to bother with it.
Archonix,
The BBC poll may be self-fulfilling, but when the world's largest media organization spews out vile anti-Semitic propaganda day after day to billions of people, it's going to have an effect.
Think of the BBC as a very large and very slick, English language Der Stuermer.
You won't get any argument from me on that point, but that's a long way from anti-semetism being a universal cultural artefact.
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