I became acquainted with the Wiener Akademikerbund through our Austrian correspondent ESW, and was fortunate enough to meet a number of the group’s members during my visit to Austria for the Counterjihad Vienna meeting this time last year.The Akademikerbund is in the forefront of efforts to confront and roll back the Islamization of Europe. I reported last fall on its “Fifteen Demands” for Islamic reform in Austria, as showcased during the forum on Euro-Islam (from which Tariq Ramadan withdrew at the last minute).
More recently the Akademikerbund brought to my attention a parallel effort in Germany known as the “Manifesto Against Sharia”. Piggy Infidel has kindly translated the Manifesto into English:
Press-release- - - - - - - - -
Manifesto Against Sharia
Joint Statement of Muslim Organisations in Germany
Cologne: along with the German Central Council of Muslims (ZMD), the declaration was signed by ten other organisations. According to the ZMD, this would ease dialogue between Muslims and other religious communities and the mainstream.
The signatories:
- Islamrat für die Bundesrepublik Deutschland e.V.
- Zentralrat der Muslime in Deutschland (ZMD)
- Türkisch-Islamische Union der Anstalt für Religion e.V. (DITIB)
- Islamische Gemeinschaft Milli Görüs (IGMG)
- Union der Türkisch-Islamischen Kulturvereine in Europa e.V. (ATIB)
- Verband der Islamischen Kulturzentren e.V. (VIKZ)
- Islamisches Zentrum München
- Islamisches Zentrum Aachen Bilal Moschee (IZA)
- Islamisches Zentrum Hamburg Imam-Ali-Moschee
- Ahmadiyya-Muslim-Jamaat e.V.
We the undersigned hereby state:
OUR AIMS —
- To explain to Muslims the dangers contained in the Islamic religious texts, as well as the necessity of a reform of Islam
- To explain to non-Muslims the differences between moderate Muslims and Islamists (a.k.a. religious fanatics, radical Muslims, fundamentalists, extremists, Islamo-fascists)
- To inform both Muslims and non-Muslims that they are both the targets of Islamic terrorism
Our Declaration
Acknowledging mistakes
The majority of terrorist attacks during the last three decades, including the 9/11 attacks, have been carried out by fundamentalists in the name of Islam, specifically based on the Koran. For us as Muslims it is despicable that Islam is being used to murder millions of innocent people, non-Muslims as well as Muslims
Contradictions in the Koran
There are unfortunately religious texts in the Koran, as well as in the Hadith, that call for Islamic supremacy and incite violence against non-Muslims. It is time to change this. Islamic fundamentalists believe the Koran is the literal word of Allah. But could Allah the Compassionate really order the mass murder of people just because they are not Muslims?
The Koran and the Bible
Many biblical figures, from Adam to Jesus, are recognised and respected as prophets in Islam. Islamic scholars believe, however, that both the old and new Testaments are from God, but that they have been falsified by Jews and Christians. Could it be possible that the Koran itself has been falsified by Muslims during the last thirteen centuries?
The Necessity of Reform
Islam in its current form is not compatible with the principles of freedom and democracy. Muslims have two possibilities: We can continue with the barbaric practices of the seventh century and with the politics of Hassan al-Bannah, Abdullah Azzam, Yassir Arafat, Ruhollah Khomeini, Osama Bin Laden, the Muslim Brotherhood, al-Qaida, Hizbullah, Hizb-ut-Tahrir, etc. This will lead to a global war between the Islamic world and the West.
Or we could reform Islam, keeping our rich cultural heritage and cleansing our religion of the ugly relics of the past. We as Muslims who want to live in harmony together with people of other religions, agnostics and atheists, choose the latter possibility. We have to protect future generations of Muslims from the brainwashing of Islamic fundamentalists. If we fail to prevent the spread of fundamentalism, some of our children will become murderous terrorists.
Accepting Responsibility
To begin this healing process we have to remove the evil that has been carried out by Muslims in the name of Islam, and we have to accept responsibility for these misdeeds. We have to remove the bad passages from the Islamic texts, so that future Muslims are not confused by contradictory statements. Our religious message should be clear: Islam is peace, Islam is love, Islam is the light. War, murder, violence, division and discrimination are not Islamic values.
Private Religious Sphere
Religion is the private affair of each individual. It should be possible for any person to practice his religion freely, so long as that religion does not break local laws, and no one should be forced into any religious practice. Any type of belief which is spread through violence is fundamentally immoral and is no longer a religion, but rather a political ideology.
Equality
Islam is one of many world religions. There will be no peace and harmony in the world if Muslims and non-Muslims do not have equal rights. The doctrine of Islamic supremacy is just as repellant as the doctrine of Aryan supremacy. History has shown us what happens to societies whose members see themselves as superior to other peoples. All moderate Muslims have to reject the notion of Islamic supremacism.
Sharia
Sharia law has to be abolished; it is incompatible with the rules of a modern society.
Outdated Practices
Any customs which may have been acceptable in the seventh century, such as stoning, limb amputation, marriage/sex with children or animals, must be condemned by all Muslims.
Outdated verses
The following verses encourage division and religious hatred, fanaticism, and discrimination. They either have to be removed from the Koran or else declared as obsolete and irrelevant: Sura 9:111, Sura 8:55, plus many more.
Out-dated words and phrases
Use of the following words and phrases as well as all their variations must be banned from religious ceremonies:
- Unbeliever — this has a negative connotation and leads to division and aversion from others; Islam is not the only religion.
- Jihad — often interpreted as holy war against non-Muslims.
- Mujahideen — no more wars in the name of Islam.
- American occupation (or Christian/Israeli/Zionist) — these expressions lead to fanaticism. To date, Muslims living in non-Muslim countries enjoy far more freedoms than Muslims in the Islamic world.
Islam against Violence
There is no place for violence in Islam. Anyone calling for violence in the name if Islam must be ejected from Islam. All instances of this must be brought before the relevant authorities. It is the religious and civic duty of all Muslims to condemn any act of terrorism carried out in the name of Islam. Any Muslim group which has connections to terrorism in any way, shape or form, has to be totally condemned by both religious and secular Muslims alike.
Artistic Depictions of the Prophet
Although artistic representations of the prophet are unacceptable in Islam and considered insulting by many Muslims, other religions do not share these restrictions. Therefore the artistic representation of the prophet must be protected as a basic freedom of expression.
The Crusades and the Inquisition
While the Inquisition was a repressive period of Christian fundamentalism, the Crusades were not unprovoked acts of aggression. They were actually attempts to take Christian areas back from under Muslim control. They were hardly known about by the Islamic world at the time, and are nowadays being used by Islamic fundamentalists simply as propaganda against Christians. We reject such propaganda and are starting a critical review of the history of brutal Islamic warfare.
Brothers and sisters!
Don’t make the next generation of Muslims pay for your mistakes!
Let’s fight Islamic fascism today, so that your children don’t have to!
44 comments:
In short, they want Islam but without the Islam.
Better to just leave Mohammad's unreformable folly.
Islam is paralyzed in its hate.
Free yourself from its cage, nominal "Muslims".
Stop trying to hope the theocratic scorpion will turn into an enlightened butterfly.
This Manifesto was very well put. It covers all the bases. I agree with the writers of this document; we must start to "push back" against the Islamist terror-culture that confronts us all. If not we'll be dragged back to the dark ages and our freedom will be gone.
A well-stated manifesto. However, I must take exception with its call to reform Islam.
To paraphrase Ali Sina, an attempt to reform Islam is to legitimize it and its unmitigated evils, as well as an exercise in futility. Besides, as once stated here at GoV, Islam's reformation already happened, and the barbaric Wahhabis are the result.
In a nutshell its bollox.
Any Muslim who does not believe in Sharia, disagrees with the founder of Islam's wishes Muhammad. This therefore makes them a heretic and certainly not a Muslim. How can you revere Muhammad and yet disagree with what he teaches, considering there'd be no Islam without him?
Remember also that Allah gave Muhammad all his teachings and that Sharia comes directly from Allah?
It's ridiculous. I'll tell you what this is, this is more taqiyya. What this is is Islam realising that many people are cottoning on to what Islam is and desperate measures(this manifesto) are being taken to continue pulling the wool over the eyes over the West, to state that Islam is the light, peace, blah blah blah.....
You cannot polish a turd. Islam by its own teachings is a violent cult, created by a madman. The passages in the Qur'an were plagiarised from the bible in order for Muhammad's 'new novel' to have any chance of being accepted as the 'true religion'.
If people are really going to believe this piffle then more fools them.
If Islam wants to live in peace with the West then it should stay in its lands and continue revering the paedophile prophet who murdered hundreds. For if they truly are going to reform Islam and turn it into a Religion of Peace then they are going to have to not just remove all the violent teachings in the Qur'an, including Muhammad himself. However, by removing Muhammad you remove Islam from Islam thereby having no Islam.
Islam can never be reformed, because Muhammad will always be revered and all the problems in Islam come straight from him.
pathetic.
It might be an April Fool's joke. Look at the date that it was posted:
"Written by manifestgegenscharia, April 1, 2009 um 1:11"
For those who read German, go to the link and look at the comments.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Those who signed this manifesto are brave but would surely be considered apostates by the vast majority of devout Muslims. Most mosques and prominent Islamic authorities preach the opposite.
This manifesto is a small drop of sanity in a massive sea of ignorance due to low intelligence (via inbreeding) and low education, a cult indoctrinated with their mother's milk as haters, supremacists and intolerant totalitarians who need sharia to keep some kind of order in what would otherwise be a totally Hobbesian anarchist world in which they would kill each other before they got around to the infidels.
Muslims are outer directed narcissists, incapable of introspection, admitting error, or exercising self-restraint. They need hundreds of rules to follow including toilet hygiene so as not to self-destruct totally as a society.
Our mistake was importing what are still barbarians with 8th century beliefs into our midst instead of letting them kill each other off (e.g. Iran Iraq war, Fatah and Hamas etc.) Their belief system automatically limits them to creating primitive backwaters. The sooner we wean ourselves from their oil they can recede back into deserved obscurity. The problem is keeping nukes from the one people crazed enough to use them in this day and age.
To explain to Muslims the dangers contained in the Islamic religious texts, as well as the necessity of a reform of Islam.
Aside from giving Muslims a vivid foretaste of the Total War they clamor for so loudly, here is one of the only other ways: (reworded from a previous essay dealing with functional deterrents to terrorism)
Propaganda — A Cautionary Tale:Islamic terrorists continue to advocate the use of nuclear weapons against far better armed Western powers. Muslim populations need to be informed of how exceptionally dangerous such a notion is. Making them aware of this would involve creating a really well produced Middle East version of "The Day After Tomorrow". Not the more recent global warming movie but that 1980s American video about the aftermath of a nuclear war.
The program would show Western retaliation for a nuclear terrorist attack on a major American city. Explicit recreations need to portray Cairo, Islamabad, Tehran, Riyadh and Damascus all vaporizing in nuclear explosions. Extremely vivid and graphic detail should be used to demonstrate just how devastating and gruesome such a response would be. Accurate recreations of firestorms, burning cement, boiling lakes and disintegrating skyscrapers all must be included. The footage should also show easily recognized landmarks or historical monuments being vaporized in each metropolis along with its more affluent neighborhoods.
Subsequent footage would then document the immense human suffering from radiation poisoning, exposure, starvation and epidemics that will sweep the affected areas. All of this footage should be burned onto millions of DVDs with sub-tracks in Arabic, Farsi, Pashto, Hindi and so forth. These would then be airdropped over the entire MME (Muslim Middle East) and made to coincide with peak viewing cycles during Ramadan.
To enhance public notice of this, airings of the video would also be electronically piggybacked onto al Jazeera, al Manar and other Arab state television broadcast channels. This would guarantee a splash of publicity and assure follow up viewing of the airdropped DVDs.
I can think of few other ways for America to clearly communicate the incredibly perilous position Muslims are being placed in by their jihadi co-religionists. Whether they agree with them or not is entirely of zero consequence. Islam is currently headed directly towards such an outcome and if there is some way of inspiring Muslims to begin reforming Islam or killing off their jihadist clergy and its followers then this needless catastrophe might be averted.
------------------
If such a catastrophe is unavoidable, then it is not “needless”.
Horace, having taken a look at the blog, I am inclined to agree with you that it might be an April Fool's Day joke. However, I haven't read anything in the German blogosphere suggesting that it might be one.
On the other hand, even if it were indeed a hoax, it still contains good material and could very well go hand in hand with the 15 Demands to Muslims by the Wiener Akademikerbund. And both can and hopefully will put pressure on German and Austrian Muslim groups.
Thank you also to Piggy Infidel for the excellent translation.
The signatories are a fake. DITIB is firmly in charge of every mosque run by the Turks in Germany. It is more like a centralized Turkish govt. acting illegaly on German soil.
No need to put extra mosques as signatories.
Their manifesto would start with rahman, raheem...
They would never speak like a bunch of rational intellectuals.
What about "Islamic manifesto against mohammad"?
Or "Mohammads manifesto against islam"?
Mohammad returns from the hell for a while and discribes consequences of his crimes there.
Sharia was not defined by mohammad, it is a later derivation from his speeches and mainly evil acts. As such it is slightly hypothetical.
Zenster - I doubt the West (in its current form) would respond to a terrorist' nuclear attack with a nuclear attack of its own.
I think Horace's hypothesis of an April's fool joke has to be checked. Do we have any independant confirmation of this manifesto ? Milli Görüs is mentioned among the signatories. I was under the impression it was a thoroughly radical organisation.
My problem with these sorts of break away by Muslims from the rigours of Islam, is simply this..
Let us consider the situation that all muslims at present living in the West, accepted the call to clean their communities of extremism. They even went further and made the changes in their teachings of the koran and the jihad. Such an outcome would no doubt come as a relief to many on this site. But I counter, that all such changes were being done merely to protect the ummah while it grows at ever increasing pace in the West. Once a near majority is achieved, that future generation of muslims will simply revoke any changes and return to the traditions of the koran. They will even praise this generation of muslims for having done what was necessary to protect islam.
We are in race against time - Muslims have to beguile us for just long enough till their numbers make no difference to what we think.
All the 17 German commentors take it as a joke to make their muslims denounce their attitude towards democracy publically.
Spreading that makes out of us useful idiots working fot the first time for our interests.
This strategy is something new. Engaging the enemy...
From the evidence, I stand convinced that this 'Manifesto' is a joke. But it's likely a serious joke, intended to provoke the 'signatories' into denouncing the 'Manifesto' and proclaiming their opposition to its statements.
Has there been any reaction in the Muslim world?
By the way, although my first name is "Horace," I prefer to go by "Jeffery."
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Don't trust the mohammedans. It's taqyyia as already suggested. Although I agree with Zenster about retaliation, I unfortunately don't think that will happen - ever. Maybe 10-15 years ago but not now. The world has already slipped into too far much dhimmitude since then. Picture London and New York go up in smoke. All that will happen is the Browns and Obamahams of this world will go to their new overlords, "Excuse me, sir, what did we do wrong this time? Please tell us so that we won't make it again." Of course bowing their heads to the ground. I think one of his other ideas could become more fruitful, that of taking out their clerics. Kill as many as possible, both in the west and outside. The cleansing should start asap as there is not much time. This should leave the rest of the islamic body like the headless chicken. Running around for a while randomly, then collapse. I fear that the only countries with guts to retaliate is Israel for sure and possibly also India but the west? Naaah...
Robin Shadowes wrote:
"I think one of . . . [Zenster's] other ideas could become more fruitful, that of taking out their clerics. Kill as many as possible, both in the west and outside. The cleansing should start asap as there is not much time."
What Zenster suggested seems rather different to me:
"Islam is currently headed directly towards such an outcome [i.e., nuclear catastrophe if Islamists obtain nuclear weapons] and if there is some way of inspiring Muslims to begin reforming Islam or killing off their jihadist clergy and its followers then this needless catastrophe might be averted."
I read Zenster as suggesting that Muslims themselves weed out the jihadists in their midst.
What Robin Shadowes is suggesting is that we non-Muslims should kill all Muslim clerics.
I want no part of that.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
thll: I doubt the West (in its current form) would respond to a terrorist' nuclear attack with a nuclear attack of its own.
Then the West may as well concede to Islam right now. In its current operating mode, Western governments seem to regard a nuclear-armed Islam as some sort of foregone conclusion.
Working from that basic premise, it is only a matter of time before some portion of an expanding Islamic nuclear arsenal is diverted for the purposes of jihad. This is not any sort of presumption but a reliable fact.
Lack of response-in-kind—a basic component of America’s Cold War era military doctrine—to a terrorist nuclear attack will only invite more of the same. The nuclear attacks would continue until Western governments responded in kind or surrendered.
Absolutely none of that changes how—as Wretchard speculates upon in his superb essay, "The Three Conjectures"—other less squeamish nuclear powers like India, China or Russia will not tolerate the least bit of such Muslim nonsense and may even preemptively annihilate Islam once it begins any sort of nuclear jihad or even threatens to do so.
In fact, NATO has already examined the concept of “Preemptive Nuclear Doctrine“ in its report, “Towards a Grand Strategy for an Uncertain World”. The continued existence of Western civilization may well rely upon this concept of Preemptive Deterrence.
All of this harkens back to the idiocy of Western Governments remaining paralyzed in the face of just a single terrorist nuclear attack or even the mounting possibility of one occurring. Iran’s blatant pursuit of weapons grade nuclear material only serves to highlight the importance of evolving such new breeds of military doctrine.
It is only the presence of such spineless and traitorous leadership that declares how “America is not, and never will be, at war with Islam”, that gives any credibility to concerns about a lack of response to even a single terrorist nuclear attack. Despite its massive petroleum reserves, the MME (Muslim Middle East) must be viewed as entirely dispensable should its fanatical jihad component begin to threaten even marginal aspects of Western civilization.
The redefinition of hate speech laws to include “Islamophobia”, progressive adoption of shari’a law in Western courts and the advent of SCF (Shari’a Compliant Financing), all represent these marginal and gradual encroachments upon the unalienable rights of free human beings. To what should be the utter despair of rational Muslims (an oxymoron at best), these erosions of fundamental human rights continue with almost inexorable progress.
The ultimate result of Islam’s ideological juggernaut making such unheralded advances can only mean one of two things: The total collapse of Western civilization or a Muslim holocaust of horrific proportions. It is less than likely that the West shall go quietly into Islam’s ebon night. That Muslims cannot or will not recognize the implications of this fundamental equation bodes particularly ill for Islam’s continued survival.
So be it.
Horace Jeffery Hodges: What Zenster suggested seems rather different to me.
That is only because you may well be a newcomer to Gates of Vienna.
I really like your idea of releasing a variety of such ostensible "manifestos" and then leaving it to the Muslim community to either deceitfully agree (equalling apostasy), or disagree (equalling outright support for terrorism), with these splendid "lures".
Islam must be made to shed its sheep's skin to reveal the wolf's pelt that lurks beneath. It is long past tea for this political ideology to be exposed for the tyrannous and barbaric theocracy that it is.
[per Robin Shadowes] "Islam is currently headed directly towards such an outcome [i.e., nuclear catastrophe if Islamists obtain nuclear weapons] and if there is some way of inspiring Muslims to begin reforming Islam or killing off their jihadist clergy and its followers then this needless catastrophe might be averted."
Horace Jeffery Hodges: I read Zenster as suggesting that Muslims themselves weed out the jihadists in their midst.
You are both right and wrong. Yes, Muslims must be made to clean their own house. It is their only realistic hope for true survival. Sadly, it will likely require razing a few MME (Muslim Middle East) cities before they become sufficiently inspired to the task. it is a job that only Muslims can perform and they have, to date, shown little if any inclination to do so.
Still, do not for one second forget that we are currently being treated to the sordid spectacle of Islam hysterically laughing up its sleeve at the West's earnest but inept attempts to clean that filthy abode known as the MME.
Horace Jeffery Hodges: What Robin Shadowes is suggesting is that we non-Muslims should kill all Muslim clerics.
No. More precisely, Robin is echoing my own call that Western nations should employ their espionage-based assets or military Special Forces to begin a "wetwork" campaign of targetted assassinations against Islam's clerical, scholastic, militant, political and financial elite.
A mere 1,000 to 10,000 extra-judicially sanctioned strikes against these genocidal and psychopathic murderers stands as one of the only ways to avoid an otherwise inevitable Muslim holocaust.
Islam has ZERO compunction over hurling MILLIONS if not BILLIONS of Musllm and Infidel bodies alike onto the pyre of its burning lust to impose a global caliphate that enforces its Neanderthal shari'a law. Some 10,000 preemptive strikes represents an infintesimal price to pay if we could avert such a catastrophe.
Horace Jeffery Hodges: I want no part of that.
Then I ask that you please consider what portion of blame you shall necessarily need to shoulder for having agitated against one of the only ways of averting—not just the assured Muslim holocaust that will ensue, but—the likely incineration of one or several major Western cities which will incite that horrific response.
Clearly, you possess mind enough to understand the implications of continued Muslim deception. I only ask that you now extend those mental powers to consider the penalty for inaction or inadequate response when confronted with the most hideous combination of Nazi genocide and communist ideological mania.
Remember, we are currently confronted with ony TWO, count them, TWO options:
Either we fight an Islam that does not have nuclear weapons, or:
We fight an Islam that has nuclear weapons.
Those are the only two choices that Western civilization has. I challenge you, or anyone else, to name some other options.
Yeah, but c'mon guys, it's a good initiative. They deserve support rather than scorn and ridicule. That will only create a bigger rift. Let's instead applaud them for trying!
Holger: Yeah, but c'mon guys, it's a good initiative.
Is it? Has anyone provided sufficient proof that this "manifesto" is anything more than a ruse? I hope that it most certainly is, but there is every indication that this declaration is a monumental fake.
Clarification, please.
Zenster:
There is another level apart from the military.
Not a "clash of civilizations", but rather clash of illusions.
It is not the department of taqiyya exactly, but works similarly independently of islam.
You are unable to calculate those effects and as a superior person - addicted to logical thinking - it makes you very weak.
That is wrong. We can react also very correctly - in spite of our capacity of logical thinking. Think of various disciplines where thinking/calculating is not the prime issue. It may be sport, game, fun, art etc. Is necessary to add to our weponry.
Remember also that the cartoons were not designed as a tool or weapon. Just a "competition" within a marginal newspaper.
Put sarcastically - practice fun and yoga.
Right now the muslims are inflating their plastic brains and bodies. But it does not mean much. Meaningful and decisive are only our reactions.
My understanding is that Islam is not really a hierarchical religion like say Catholicism. There is no Pope since Mohammed. There are no imams whose word would hold sway with all Muslims.
It appears to have a diffused power structure that makes it more dangerous and difficult to eradicate. I don't think it's possible to decapitate leadership going the imam route and it would galvanize uprisings among an excitable people who riot over cartoons and teddy bears.
Although Saudi money sends out Wahhabist extremist imams around the world and they should be barred immediately, there is also a grassroots process whereby a self-taught Muslim presents himself for consideration and if accepted by local Muslims, that makes him an imam with a congregation. There's no required diploma.
There was a case recently in the news where a Muslim employed somehow in a NATO camp in Afghanistan organized prayer sessions for other Muslims in the same position and was then asked to be their imam. He admitted he was merely devout, not especially trained but felt it his duty to enable Muslim worship.
So you see Zenster, no matter how many hydra heads you lop off, they will be immediately replaced.
I think the way to go is to be more serious about disrupting the actual jihadists, the terrorist planners as they are more difficult to replace. I also do not understand why we in the West have not widely published the words of a few prominent Muslims who have condemned the terrorists, even Bin Ladin and get a buzz going among Muslims themselves, get them questioning which Muslim is right - bin Laden or the imams who condemn him?
As an anti-Islamist strategy, I recommend the one that is working to slow the Climate Warming juggernaut and may eventually turn it. Some scientists with impeccable credentials are finally getting past the media blackout to speak against the flawed UN generated bilge "consensus". They've reached critical mass where they can't all be dismissed as cranks.
We need to get the same kind of discussion going regarding Islam, break the monolith.
There are going to be a lot of Madison Avenue types unemployed. They should be hired by the State Department and CIA to seed dissension among Muslims in the big idea sphere using Muslim sources i.e. if the CIA and SD were actually into defending the West. They seem to be infiltrated by leftists and Saudi money.
Here for example is one of the best pieces of verbal ammunition that one could have:
"Sheikh Salman b. Fahd al-Oadah, the general supervisor of IslamToday.net, delivered the following address to Osama bin Laden live on NBC television on 14 September, 2007, which corresponds to the second day of Ramadan in Saudi Arabia:
Brother Osama:
How much blood has been spilled? How many innocent children, women, and old people have been killed, maimed, and expelled from their homes in the name of “al-Qaeda”?
Are you happy to meet Allah with this heavy burden on your shoulders? It is a weighty burden indeed – at least hundreds of thousands of innocent people, if not millions.
How could you wish for that? – after knowing that Allah’s Messenger said: “Whoever as much as kills a sparrow in vain will find it crying before Allah on the Day of Judgment: ‘My Lord! That person killed me in vain. He did not kill me for needful sustenance.”
This religion of ours comes to defense of the life of a sparrow. It can never accept the murder of innocent people, regardless of what supposed justification is given for it.
…Who is responsible for all of those young Muslim, who are still in the bloom of their youth, with all the zeal of their age, who have strayed down a path they have no idea where it is headed? etc. etc."
Read the whole thing. He spanks Bin Ladin hard. If the billion Muslims can be convinced that they actually respect life including infidel life we're all saved.
http://www.islamtoday.com/showme2.cfm?cat_id=29&sub_cat_id=1521
This is a war of words and the words of traitorous Obama are a white flag. Instead, we need to disseminate the right kind of Muslim words widely and get the few western talking heads whose brains have not fallen out to talk up the moderate Muslims. Maybe we can increase their numbers.
Face and Honor are very important to Muslims/Arabs. This would be a face-saving way out "We are totally embarrassed by these few barbarians who hack clitorises, kill relatives and call it honor, bomb innocents etc. Islam values human life, civilized behavior etc...." Get the snobby Arabs throwing what they consider the primitive Pakistanis under the bus etc.
Put them on the defensive about Darfur: "It looks as though the Muslim militia have a problem with black Africans regardless of their religion...isn't that...racist?
Divide and conquer or at least throw the enemy into disarray.
Zenster, when I read "taking out their clerics" and "Kill as many as possible," I understood Robin Shadowes to mean all Muslim 'clerics', and that would be to kill the innocent along with the guilty.
But perhaps he meant all of the jihadist 'clerics'.
I certainly have no objection to going after jihadist 'clerics' who are plotting against us. Sometimes, killing them will be necessary. Sometimes, arresting them will suffice. Sometimes, merely publicizing their vicious 'sermons' will deter them.
The struggle against Islamism is a multifaceted one. With one billion Muslims in the world, and given Islam's decentralized institutional character, the big struggle will be the ideological one. A lot of Muslims are unaware of what Islam teaches. Many of them would leave Islam if given a real choice. Most seem to dislike shariah when they find themselves living under it. I think that Islam is weak and that we can gain a lot merely by making known what a lot of its central texts teach.
While I don't devote my entire blog to unmasking Islamism, I do put up the more than occasional post in an attempt to call attention to what the Islamists do and say.
Incidentally, I'm not really new here. I look at Gates of Vienna every day. I just don't usually have time to read and respond to comments, but I thought that I ought to post today and say that the 'Manifesto' looks like an April Fool's joke to me -- but a serious joke intended to draw out the radicals from the moderates.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Czechmade: Think of various disciplines where thinking/calculating is not the prime issue. It may be sport, game, fun, art etc..
I beg to differ. Where is it written that sport, game and even fun or art do not benefit from thought or calculaiton. While not the overarching modus operandi of fun or art, consideration and weighted analysis can still enhance both pursuits.
Given that the "prime issue" here is simple survival, gaming and recreation contribute little to the discussion. Hard facts and even harder decisions await those with the courage to confront this existential challenge.
Jeffrey Hodges, the voice of asymptotic reason, wrote:
"I certainly have no objection to going after jihadist 'clerics' who are plotting against us."
Our deadly dilemma is that we have no reliable way of knowing the dangerous ones from the harmless ones. In that kind of situation, and with the risks so high, the only rational thing to do is target seeming "innocents" along with those we have intel on. The al Qaeda manual instructs its agents to seem "less Islamic" and to blend in with the moderate Westernized population. When they are also busy laying the groundwork for horrific attacks using various flavors of WMDs, including chemical, biological, and nuclear, it would be insanely reckless for us to solidify artificial restrictions on our own measures to defend ourselves. The Jeffrey Hodges of the West are doing their part to endanger our lives with their well-meaning sincerity and starry-eyed concern for not going down the "slippery slope".
Eric, my name's spelled "Jeffery."
By the logic of your argument, every Muslim should be executed. Is that your conclusion?
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Zenster,
you are tough and heavy-handed. I like your comments though very much. I am your fan from the beginnig. But I can see also that you are losing strenght with comments getting longer.
Mind also that I support strongly the worst case scenarios described by you and Ingles. Those are more than useful, but not all that useful. Reality can be much richer...
You can be brought easily into a situation when you "logically" aknowledge your defeat. Unable to switch fast to another modus operandi. Away from the big scale scenario. Muslims are good in playing the small scale scenarios and we are not. They are limited by the devil´s mindset. We are limited by our logical thinking - which makes the devil laugh.
Think atomic bomb scenarios as much as small scale victories and defeats. As we do not own any bomb, we should excell in the small scale scenarios as well. Those are transmittable - i.e. powerful techniques.
Erich,
"The al Qaeda manual instructs its agents to seem "less Islamic" and to blend in with the moderate Westernized population."
And AKP does the same to the Turkish military and secularists. Instead of manual of AQ they have the writings of Feithullah living now in exile in USA.
This strategy makes it possible that very few people rule muslims and us at the same time. Thus cutting the ugly head advocated by Zenster should be relatively easy.
Those jihadis are irrelevent compared to the imams. But our govs are unable to focus on them.
"Fight on terror(ists)" - no, not before you have faught and defeated the ideology. What as stupid approach - always fighting the symptoms.
We get punished for being so shallow...
Jeffery's reservations are legitimate and I somewhat agree with him.
If jihadists clerics are "among us" its because we allowed them to immigrate to our countries.
I say get them all out first. They should be deported en masse to the MME before anything else. A 100% travel ban from majority Muslim countries would be appropriate.
How many millions of Communist agents were allowed to penetrate the West during the Cold War?
The only thing assassinations against clerics will do is prompt the Muslims in our midst to war against us in earnest.
NATO is already fighting two land wars in Asia against Muslims and yet, because our leaders are so stupid, we're simultaneously getting invaded by Muslims.
I can hardly believe that these associations have signed that.
It goes without saying that if they have honestly done it, they should be welcome.
The point that Erich addresses is a significant one. At issue is the Islamic practice of taqiyya. I have previously mentioned and continue to maintain that taqiyya eternally damns Islam. There never will be any way of successfully determining if Muslims have abandoned this ultimate ethical crime. It is for this reason, amongst many others, that Islam must be dismantled and cast upon history's scrap heap of dysfunctional ideologies.
Erich also makes an important point regarding how some of the very worst Muslim threats are already among us cheerfully downing bratwurst and beer as they plot to destroy America. Short of interrogating every suspect with fMRI (Functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging), there is little hope of detecting all of these covert players.
A basic knowledge of MME (Muslim Middle East) culture reveals its many shortcomings. Among them are information hoarding, near-constant internecine familial and political disputes plus an overall inability to innovate or adapt to progressive modern society.
The foregoing list of cultural drawbacks can be used against Islam. As Wretchard so incisively observed about Arab power structures:
"The Israeli strike against the terrorist top tier exploits the weakness inherent in terrorist organizations which are unstable alliances based on a delicate balance of internal intimidation. None of them, the Palestinian Authority included, are either transparent or accountable. They are exceptionally vulnerable to changes in their leadership. They can stand the loss of any number of teenage fighters or youthful suicide bombers without much damage but are rocked -- as Yassin's death illustrates -- by death at the top.Erich: Our deadly dilemma is that we have no reliable way of knowing the dangerous ones from the harmless ones.
While true to an extent, even the most capable Muslim agent residing in America is rendered harmless if his conduit of weapons and financing is shut down. This is why there is such an urgent need to begin removing Islam's jihadist aristocracy. There is an over-concentration of power, contacts, networks, material resources and wealth among this terrorist elite.
islam o' phobe: The only thing assassinations against clerics will do is prompt the Muslims in our midst to war against us in earnest.
Not true. Thoroughly disrupting the exceedingly brittle jihadist power structure will create massive turmoil. The sudden power vacuums will inspire extremely destructive infighting among Islam's top echelons. There will also be a huge loss of hoarded knowledge along with the sundering of innumerable secretive ties that took generations of close contact to establish. Furthermore, any of new players who seat themselves around the butcher’s block will have nowhere near the perceived authority, inside information or political influence of those who preceded them.
One glance at the destructive internal squabbling between Hamas and Fatah demonstrates the effectiveness of decapitating terrorist leadership. In light of its stagnant nature, Islam is just as susceptible to a scaled-up version of this same strategy. The entire Israeli – Palestinian crisis—complete with taqiyya and incompetent global meddling—is a micro-model of the macro issues we are currently confronted with by Islam.
islam o' phobe: If jihadists clerics are "among us" its because we allowed them to immigrate to our countries.
I say get them all out first. They should be deported en masse to the MME before anything else. A 100% travel ban from majority Muslim countries would be appropriate.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, such a vital measure is even less likely to be employed than the elimination of Islam's jihadist elite that I propose.
Simply put, there is no upside to accommodating Islam. One may as well seek an accommodation with the Ebola virus. Both are supremely destructive, easily transmitted and utterly inimical to human life.
islam o' phobe: The only thing assassinations against clerics will do is prompt the Muslims in our midst to war against us in earnest.
That might not be the bad thing you make it seem. Far better that Islam openly declares war in its currently ill-prepared state than allowing it to continue rotting Western society from within.
In its current stealth mode of covert terrorism accompanied by demographic replacement, Islam enjoys far more protection and evokes a greater degree of moral hesitation than it would if there was an open declaration of war against the West.
The Danish Motoons and Geert Wilders' "Fitna" have done as much or more to expose Islam's true nature than all the counter-jihad blogs put together. We need to continually goad Muslims into revealing their seditious intentions. There is little time left before the emergence of a nuclear-armed Iran scatters global security to the four winds.
The manifesto is found at the website of "Muslims Against Sharia", Omaha, USA. There are no (German) signatories.
It is amazing that the secular Turks cannot resist this. With all their knowledge of the enemy.
And they knew the stakes: a close relative of a military officer who went to Mekka (Hajj) used to be cause for the dismissal of that officer from military. Counterpressure.
Erich, given your dismissive insult about "the thick rind of PC MC that seems to surround Jeffery's brain," I see that you don't know me at all, but thanks for paying enough attention to get my name right.
I'd prefer, however, that our brief discussion had remained on a more substantive level.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Not having been involved personally in any street gang brawls myself, I have however read several accounts from those who had, and let me point out, now I mean young muslim thugs. They all have the same thing to say, take out the leader first! They all say, if you are one or two swedes and suddenly find yourself surrounded by maybe 10 young muslim thugs, don't fight them all at the same time because of if you do just that, then you're conditioned to loose, winding up in ER or worse. So they say, try to find out quickly who the leader of the gang is. Once you've done this, concentrate all your efforts to take him out as quickly as possible. After you have managed to do that, either one of two things will happen. Either the rest of the "boys" will immediately freeze up, giving you enough time to escape or they the rest of them will suddenly panic and will quickly scatter with their tails between their legs!
So what do we learn by this lesson and interesting observation? The muslim way of organizing themselves! No matter if it is as low as on street level or higher up, like families, terror organisations or even governments, it's all the same. A pyramidal structure, a pack of wolves lead by an alpha male! Take out the alpha male and the pack disparages!
As knowing very well the muslim mindset by now, this is not something that will change over night either. This might be hard for some western minds to grasp, especially the pc-ones but things are kinda differently organized in the MME than here. Among them, the clan means everything. Your survival depends on how strong your clan is compared to others in the close vicinity. Now perhaps you can understand how important it was that sheikh Yassin was taken out, as Zenster pointed out?
This is important knowledge, something that we must use against them. Here we have an important advantage over them as democracy has been a vital part of our societies for some 200 years or so by now. Taking out one of our leaders will not matter much as our structure is different from theirs. Perhaps it is this that is their Achilles' heal?
Muslims Against Sharia is a fraud and Khalim is not a peaceful man. Just look at his hate filled comments at the end of this article. He has recently been exposed on several sites and all one has to do is read his comments here to see his true hateful nature. Why don't you ask him for evidence of him speaking at Moques or universities? Ask him what Mosques in America support him? There is no movement. Muslims Against Sharia~Exposed!
http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2009/05/muslims-against-shariaexposed_18.html
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