The Irish have really put a spanner into the works of the EU. As Dymphna reported the other night, the presidents of Germany and Poland are now declining to sign the Treaty of Lisbon, due to the intransigence of those Gaelic upstarts.The EU nomenklatura, under the leadership of the President of the European Commission, José Manuel Barroso, are determined to disregard the Irish vote and press on regardless with the implementation of Lisbon. In fact, the former French President Valéry Giscard d’Estaing says that all future referendums will be ignored:
Future referendums will be ignored whether they are held in Ireland or elsewhere, Valéry Giscard d’Estaing, the architect of the European Union Constitution said.
The former President of France drafted the old Constitution that was rejected by French and Dutch voters three years ago before being resurrected as the Lisbon EU Treaty, itself shunned by the Irish two weeks ago.
Mr Giscard d’Estaing told the Irish Times that Ireland’s referendum rejection would not kill the Treaty, despite a legal requirement of unanimity from all the EU’s 27 member states.
In other words: Legality be damned! We’ll realize our full union, even over the objections of every single European, if necessary!
But the revolt against the mandarins in Brussels isn’t going to die down any time soon. Watch this video of a debate in the EU Parliament, in which protesters demanding referendums are answered by the EU’s apologists:
And consider this statement from Margot Wallström, EU vice president and the commissioner in charge of EU communication:
- - - - - - - - -
Don’t forget: the European leaders have invested a lot of political capital into this whole procedure.
Yes, I think that about sums it up. Ms. Wallström has communicated the gist of things very effectively: there are a lot of fat oxen that stand to be gored if the treaty is not implemented, and they belong to powerful and influential people.
On the other hand, the opponents of the Lisbon Treaty are energetic and inspiring. There’s even a new slogan in Latin created for the occasion, part of a pithy quote from a British MEP named Daniel Hannon:
Mr. Cohn-Bendit [Danny the Red] said it would be quite wrong to have one million people deciding the fate of half a billion Europeans. Well, I’m happy to agree with that. Give the half-billion their referendums, too.
Pactio Olisipiensis Censenda Est.
The Lisbon Treaty must be put to the vote.
Hat tip: Henrik.
36 comments:
All we need now are people marching on the EU govt with pitchforks and torches.
Because just like in the old days of tyranny, the tyrants have taken away most of the guns.
Absolutely fascinating video. I liked that British MEP (who was behind the sign that said 687).
Just a random question: how do all the MEPs understand each other when they gather like that? I mean, there were different languages spoken in the video - Danish, German, English. Do they have instantaneous translation services or something? Or do all the MEPs just speak a lot of languages? I'm actually quite curious about this...
GREAT video. They can continue "the process", but it should only be in fact-finding (i.e. how many others say "yes" and "no"). As the Englishman said, the question is not how fast to move forward, but in which direction. And the Irish (as with most of us) are clearly convinced the EU has lost its direction.
But no one is saying throw out the baby with the bathwater.
At marker 8:45 a balding representive speaks the following German message :
"And let me tell you, the soul over there is very mobile. They can fly to Ireland, canvas in the streets, ring bells, talk to people on their doorsteps, they
can distribute leaflets - they were everywhere!
Where was the pro-EU campaign?
Where is the movement that fights for European unity? Where is the passion we once had?
The passion today is on the other side, with those on the Right who speak badly
of Europe because they fear it. But social decline and fear have always
lead to fascism."
If the EU were truely a European alliance, it would never - NEVER have
introduced the ME element as European. EURABIA is not the Europe
to unite under. The people are waking and making themselves heard.
Europe, the U.S., Iran, Russia, all of Africa and on and on...is my generation too stupid to govern?
I was highly amused by the German MEP who said that being anti-EU was fascist.
Randian LOL! Good point!!!
By the way, whoever created this video did a good job on content, but the music sucked. VERY cheesy move. It detracts fromt eh credibility of the message.
I wonder what that German representative was referring to when he spoke of the lack of a Pro-EU campaign.
I was fortunate enough to be in Ireland a week before the Lisbon vote. I am not exaggerating when I say that I saw a "VOTE YES" sign on EVERY lamp post and street sign in Limerick, Galway and around the Shannon airport (supposedly, it was even worse in Dublin). The amount of Pro-EU propaganda was absolutely astounding and was tagged with the logo's of every major political party in Ireland. Most of the people I spoke to said they were sure the 'Yes' vote would prevail.
What happened in Ireland wasn't a victory for an organized anti-Lisbon campaign, it was much more significant than that. Ireland's 'no' vote was the grassroots result of individuals voting on the treaty's own merits, even though many of them thought they were in a tiny minority.
Keep in mind that Ireland voted against the treaty by a significant margin even in the face of mass propaganda, international threats, and domestic pressure (shockingly enough, even some Irish Bishops were pushing for it). In light of this,the gravity of the message is much more profound than a simple 'no'.
Considering the ideologies and tactics of the main architects of the EU, I would be hard pressed to argue that the European Union is even remotely salvageable in its current form. Ireland and every other nation in Europe intent on maintaining democracy should depart the EU while it is still relatively easy to do so.
I hear Switzerland is doing quite well for itself currently.
Brazen, the EU is salvageable if the leadership begins to represent its constituents. The fact that Ireland said no is a good thing. Because it shows the need to listen to opposition. As I said previuosly, sure they can go ahead on more referendums, but only as fact finding. Nothing should (or IMHO will) be binding at this point.
Switzerland has a "special" relatinship with the EU (Swiss and EU citizens can work or travel in either place with no restriction).
I think this reliance by anti-EU forces on democracy and referendums is a mistake.
If these referendums are held and majorities approve the transfer of sovereignty to the supra-national body and the cementing of the EU project, what will the opponents do?
Throw up their hands and declare they lost, fair and square?
Objection must be grounded in the right to self-determination and nationalism. France is France and has a right to a French future and no amount of voting changes that as the only legitimate course of action.
Do they [MEP's] have instantaneous translation services or something?
Yes, they do. I've been there, plugged into the translations, and it works like a charm.
It's hugely costly, but as a respect for the participating countries, I find it worth the effort.
I think the fact that Borroso keeps using the words "into FORCE" is quite telling. I would also love to see one of these MEPs stand up and call the ramming through of the Lisbon treaty what it is. An act of war on the European people.
Comments on the question "Have you lost faith in the EU?" on BBC News.
Top rated comment:
Have you lost faith in the EU?
Give us a referendum and we'll tell you!
Enjoy :)
"Brazen, the EU is salvageable if the leadership begins to represent its constituents."
Agreed, but considering the track record of the EU architects, any concessions toward democracy would be duplicitous and short-lived at best. The Organization is stacked top-to-bottom with elitists that have worked tirelessly to insulate themselves will of the governed.
The US constitution was written by great minds concerned first and foremost with man's liberty and his independence from tyrannical government. It is the archetypal foundation for establishing a nation of self-rule. Despite its safeguards, even it has been chipped away over the years by the socialist elites.
Imagine then, what happens when the constitution itself is borne of the minds of elitists and anti-western socialists?
Simply put, the foundation of the EU must be replaced before any meaningful democratic reform can be attempted.
Brazen, good points. But there is a key difference: in the US at the time of the constitution, the two factions were essentially Federalists vs Democratic Republicans, where as in Europe, not only are issues drawn upon both political, but also ethnic lines. The reality is in most cases, Europeans simply do not trust their other member states. Europe simply has thousands of more years of history at play than the US. So, in my opinion, the EU is the first step in a solution.
Brazentide makes very good comments here. I won't duplicate all that common sense.
But referring to the Qualis Rex comment on Europeans not trusting each other, I find it far-fetched beyond belief. We've met, traded, warred and married across nations for a millenium, and have a wonderful mix of prejudice and confidence between us. The cleaning up after WWII was very well done, and we've basic trust in each other since then.
Enter the EU. Here people (and we're talking top leaders) are playing all kinds of deceitful games and negotiations ambushes. Defeats in negotiations are presented at home as victories. 'Insignificant' details have routinely grown way out of control. And the net result is that we find ourselves run by civil servants in the strange town of Brussels, where the ghosts of Belgian Congo roam.
In my view, the EU and the process surrounding it has created a culture of deceit and distrust that will take decades to repair. We're only starting to see the fractures.
Off topic newsflash. The Daily Mail.
"The most senior judge in England tonight gave his blessing to the use of sharia law to resolve disputes among Muslims."
Another suicide pill the brits have been offered to swallow.
Related, our marverick MP Morten Messerschmidt (he's just 27 years!) is taking our government to task over the contents of that Telegraph article. He'll ask our ministers some very pointed questions about the deception that Giscard d’Estaing openly admits.
Resistance is not futile :)
I'm reconsidering my hesitation on dual citizenship.
Ireland sounds great!
I wonder if Denmark offers dual citizenship!?
I could be a citizen of THREE -freedom loving countries!!!
Thank you for the vid.
Robohobo --
I understand your intent with that little ditty, but it's off topic and needlessly offensive to some people, so I deleted it.
Here's the second portion of your comment, intact (except for asterisks):
Robohobo said...
The Irish are a VERY educated bunch and have a very low threshold for b******t. They saw thru it quite nicely. The EU should now be dead but the elites will probably still force it thru. Then, since most of the dhimmi EUropeons are disarmed they will be able to do not a damn thing about it. I know I sound like a broken record but that is why the 2nd is so very important. It keeps the aspiring Emperors at bay and in fearful respect of the citizenry.
The machinery in the EU is going to forge ahead because they know better than the plebeians they wish to rule.
Electoral college anyone?
Qualis Rex, I take it you have a problem with the Electoral College. I do not.
The Founding Fathers wisely rejected unbridled democracy in favor of a republic where the people had a voice, but not the last say.
I have no problem with a European Union, but the Lisbon Treaty is not a constitution; it is an incomprehensible bill of goods and the Irish, very wisely, rejected it.
The Lisbon Treaty should be buried in an unmarked grave. It has been stinking up Europe for far too long.
Excellent video. Quite revealing.
I have perhaps a very basic, maybe naive, question. Why are the leaders of the European countries so bent on merging into one unidentifiable mass of humanity at the expense of their countries' identities? I love the differences in each European country. Surely economic matters can be resolved without such a massive transfer of power to a central, unaccountable, authority.
Thanks for clarifying, Henrik. In a weird way, it would be cool to be an MEP and get to use that simultaneous translation.
Except I don't like the EU... maybe it wouldn't be so cool after all.
Why are the leaders of the European countries so bent on merging into one unidentifiable mass of humanity at the expense of their countries' identities?
I would think that obvious. Money and unaccountable power.
The average Joe, then you and I are in 100% agreement here.
I don't have a problem with the electoral college either. I was just pointing out the irony of the previous poster when he says "The machinery in the EU is going to forge ahead because they know better than the plebeians they wish to rule." since that was precisely the reason for the electoral college.
Margot Wallström: Don’t forget: the European leaders have invested a lot of political capital into this whole procedure.
Baron: Yes, I think that about sums it up. Ms. Wallström has communicated the gist of things very effectively: there are a lot of fat oxen that stand to be gored if the treaty is not implemented, and they belong to powerful and influential people.
I think there is no better political example of a similar capital investment than the Palestinian situation. All sorts of Western leaders have the Palestinian crisis voluntarialy wrapped around their necks like the stinking albatross that it is.
They have bet the farm on winning this or that Nobel Peace prize for resolving a situation that absolutely defies all resolution. I would wager that the EU treaty rapidly is evolving into the same sort of impssse with much the same results.
We will see an outright violation of common sense and decency in the name of obtaining some slapdash cobbled together dog's breakfast of a compromise THAT WILL NOT WORK.
None of Europe's endless meddling has brought the Palestinians anywhere closer to the table, yet they continue flushing billions more Euros down the Gaza and West Bank toilets. The USA as well.
So will we see the EU parliament continue pushing for its own perks and entitlements even as common sense and decency dictate a swift abandonment of such tomfoolery. Again, far too much political capital has been invested for any of these elitist bastards to walk away from their little brainchild.
When that partially strangled and half-demented brainchild arises from its soiled cradle to wreak havoc upon the EU, not even then will these heinous enablers disavow their commitment to cripple all Europe with their totalitarian fantasies.
@rohan
Q: [...]
A: Perhaps it's because the members of the political elites, like all well-meaning fcasists - not real fascists of course ;-) but the "smiley" type - are zealously bent on "transcending" boundaries.
I guess "Elites" are the same everywhere. They know best, therefore they will force their decision upon you, for your own good, of course. What a shame to lose the incredible differences between the various European countries. These differences, even the old currencies, are the "spice" that made it so wonderful. I just finished reading "1984" and "Brave New World". I recognize some of each book in the EU.
The European Union IS the story of Pinnochio.
EU officials ARE the donkeys taken from Pleasure Island.
Where do the donkeys come from? They are stupid little boys, turned into braying jackasses, then sold to farmers at auction. The one and only thing they are good for is to be sold so they can be put to productive work. If you called them dumb asses you would be exactly correct.
Q R, I'm afraid I must quibble. The Preamble to the Constitution reads: "We the People..." not "We the Plebeians..."
The Founders had a great deal of respect for voters. This was because voters had to be at least 21 years of age and own property. (Those rules have since changed to our detriment.) The Founders were also aware of the fact that those same voters were armed and had already proven that they took a dim view of tyranny.
Unfortunately the conditions that applied in 18th century America do not apply in 21st century Europe. Would that they did.
The bureaurants and tyracrats of the EU have no respect for their people. The Lisbon Treaty is blatant proof of this, as is their reaction to the Irish referendum.
I think Randian answered the 'Why?' question quite eloquently. These politicians who gave away power to Brussels were themselves far too afraid of being kicked out of their offices. Which is probably why they'd present even clear negotiation defeats a 'victories' (see Tony Blair for lots of examples) and thus cheat on their constituencies. That mentality has so much become the order of the day that the politicians hardly consider practices like that deceptive any longer.
This was because voters had to be at least 21 years of age and own property.
Very good limits to set. 'Good' as in tends to build a stable and responsible society.
Socialists in Denmark want the limit reduced from 18 to 16 years. It's easy to see why they want that. First, it'd give them more voters.
Because second, young people are much more suspectible to deceit and brainwashing. Once a person turns 30, he has too much life experience for it to happen easily, and at the age of 40, you can forget about it.
It's no coincidence that fascism (of all brands) has risen to power based on the young generation. Even the European Union and Common Purpose focus on grooming young people to their causes. They know that the older generation can't just be played around with. What they present as 'opportunity' has a hidden agenda.
It'd be healthy for society to restrict voting a little bit.
Actually, when I come to think of it, I find another cause for the European politicians to have gone so deep into this project:
They have given promises they're struggling to keep.
Giving too many promises, in the area of welfare, trade, jobs, medicare, 'influence', education, whatever, is natural for a politician who want to be (re)elected. I think it has caused an inflation of sort in promises, where everyone's gone higher than everyone else - and they all look to the European Union (not to civil society!) to fulfill those promises.
Compounding this might be that our policitians have promised *each other* (like, at the Bilderberg meetings) to avoid asking the public about such 'details' as stealing our constitutions.
Mired in all kinds of promises given both to their voters and to their colleagues in other countries, they struggle like flies in a spiders' web with all the stuff they've entangled themselves in.
A few free-thinkers stand out. I expect more to stand up quite soon, as the quagmire the old school politicians are finding themselves in is becoming a tad too obvious.
Henrik;
I have a great, unbeatable slogan for your upcoming anti-Lisbon campaign:
FU-EU!
Get a native English speaker to explain.
Oh, and it's "susceptible", not "suspectible". The latter is not a word, but if it was it would mean something like, "suitable to be suspected". ;)
Thanks, Brian :)
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