The following article was published yesterday at Dispatch International, but was only up briefly before the latest hacker attack took down the site. At the request of DI’s editors, Gates of Vienna is pleased to republish it here.
Jew, know your enemy
by Jeppe Samuel Cholewa Juhl
“When two Jews are gathered in a room, there will be at least three opinions.” So goes the saying that we used to laugh at in my youth when we were sitting around the dinner table.
Essentially the saying is very positive. It reflects Judaism’s taste for discussion and its willingness and ability to change. Jewish intellectual curiosity, joie de vivre and taste for innovation are legendary and have contributed mightily to mankind’s advancement within practically every imaginable field. The world would have been a poorer place without the Jewish people.
Therefore the kind of pluralism that springs from debate, disagreement and curiosity must of course be preserved. We must continue debating. We must continue constructively, even aggressively, challenging each other. All the time. Any time.
But there is one thing we Jews should not be arguing about in this day and age. This encompasses all Jews — especially in Europe. Whether we are religious or secular. Whether we regard ourselves as belonging to the Left or the Right. And that is that Islam is Judaism’s mortal enemy. To believe otherwise is to deny an overwhelmingly documented reality.
And by Islam I mean all of Islam. The entire system of thought. The religious as well as the (dominant) political and cultural aspects of the Muslim world are so thoroughly infested with vitriolic anti-Semitism that it would be suicidal for us Jews to underestimate the hatred and the ignorance with which today’s Muslims are brought up.
The problem is that many Western Jews deny this hatred. We are nice and peaceful people. We have minded our own business. We have gratefully and diligently accommodated to the countries that have accepted us and never demanded special treatment nor displayed a victim mentality.
Orthodox Jews in Europe are integrated and secular Jews are assimilated to a degree where Jewishness is close to disappearing. We have ascribed the best of motives to our fellow men and naïvely projected our values on others. Many Jews — like most Europeans — are moral and cultural relativists who believe that all people have the best of intentions.
It is nice, naïve and suicidal. Particularly for us European Jews, whose parents and grandparents survived the Holocaust. We are now witnessing a new form of fascism. The Islamic one. And precisely as was the case with Nazism, the Jew is the biggest villain.
Islamists — I prefer to use the word scriptural Muslims — have no problem using the word “Jew” when declaring their hatred. They find their rationale in the Koran. They heil and shout their inarticulate hatred all over Europe’s streets.
These poor ill-educated and ignorant people are actively supported by Islam’s apologists and relativists, practically all of whom are socialists or belong to the ideological Left. The latter have, however, replaced the word “Jew” by “Israel”. Criticism of Israel — the kind of criticism that is based on double standards, as opposed to reasonable criticism of the pluralistic and modern democratic state — is the anti-Semitism of our time.
Unfortunately, the anti-Semites receive indirect support from European Jews. And here we have the dark side of the saying we quoted earlier. For every time we encounter three Jewish opinions on the problem of Islam in Europe, two of them will be apologetic or strongly defensive of Islam. The leading Jews in Europe, the intellectuals as well as the religious, have their heads turned the wrong way. They look to the left and not to the right. And to the extent they don’t look to the left, they fix their gaze on the ground.
The reasons for this unfortunate paradox are multifaceted. Part of the explanation is that for two thousand years the DNA of the Jewish Diaspora has been programmed with the belief that whoever lives unseen lives well. If they don’t know my name or address, probably nothing will happen to me. Another part is that historically many European Jews have been firmly rooted in socialism and are therefore among the most ardent cultural relativists.
Beyond that it is sadly obvious that religious Jews have been caught in a trap due to Islam’s expansion in Europe. Islam and Judaism are both outwardly religions of law, with much in common. Orthodox Jews eat kosher meat butchered like halal meat. Jewish women and men are separated in the synagogue, although not in reform congregations. Strongly orthodox Jewish women have their heads covered, albeit usually with a wig. And all Jewish boys are circumcised.
The impact of all this is that many European rabbis wrongly (!) feel that is it difficult to join the fight against Islamism. In addition, particularly elderly Jews fear nationalism and the political Right due to the Holocaust.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
In my next columns here in Dispatch International I intend to document and give examples of anti-Semitism, a hatred that has grown in Western Europe as a result of the irresponsible immigration and asylum policies carried out by a political elite without asking the affected populations. In the final analysis this policy is bound to drive the vast majority of the continent’s Jews to emigrate to the only country where they can be certain of being welcome: Israel.
59 comments:
George Soros is as Jewish as any other atheist.
I too just don't understand about American liberal Jews although I'm Jewish by ethnicity and live in a very liberal area.
Most of the liberal Jews I know are part of the "intellectual elite" and we know that most of the "intellectual elite" are more-or-less secular and liberal and most of them supported Obama.
To me it sometimes appears as if liberals and and our "intellectual elite" (they are mostly the same people) are under a strange kind of enchantment.
Orthodox Jews supported Romney in great numbers--probably at a higher percentage than practicing Christians.
Basically what it comes down to is that most Jews hate/fear European Christians more than they love Jews.
This is the similar configuration to the saying that "There will be peace when Palestinians love their children more than they hate Jews."
Thus they are and have been very attracted to Marxism/Communism/Socialism which vows to destroy/undermine/subvert/delegitimize/demonize the European Christian Order and promote "Equality."
Now that Jews have a nation of their own and must defend that nation and promote the interests of the Jewish nation....many are learning lessons about what that entails. The Left is now attacking Jews as imperialist/colonialist racist supremacists, whose nation needs to be destroyed/delegitimized/subverted/uundermined/demonized so that the Marxist Utopian Equality may flourish where it once stood. Open Borders, Mass Immigration of Others (Right of Return), Affirmative Action, Multiculturalism, Pushing Judaism out of the Public Sphere, and so on and so forth. In a word Anti-Semitism.
But the kicker is that it is clear that this is Anti Semitism, and this makes it crystal clear that most American and European Jews are Anti European-Christian-ites. Downright ugly haters which should be ostracized from polite society. Certainly the majority European Christians should endeavor to do so. Allowing these hostile others to freely roam our institutions is a bad idea, if you are at all concerned about the well being of European Christians.
Now there are plenty of other groups that this applies to as well. So Im not singling out Jews for special demonization. But the truth is the truth, and reality is what it is. I wish it werent so, but there it is.
On a side note. Jews for Jesus are ostracized by Jews in Israel and Diaspora, yet they would likely be rounded up or targeted as Jews by Jew hating Islamists just as quickly. So Jews really need to work on their embrace of diversity of opinion, before touting it. This is prima facie evidence of their hostility towards Christians.
For anybody interested in the topic of Why are Jews Leftwingers, I highly recommend the Why are Jews Liberals Syposium at Commentary Magazine. Espeically Wolpe, Sarna, and Medveds contributions.
Here is an excerpt from Medved.
For most American Jews, the core of their Jewish identity isn’t solidarity with Israel; it’s rejection of Christianity. ... Jewish voters don’t embrace candidates based on their support for the state of Israel as much as they passionately oppose candidates based on their identification with Christianity—especially the fervent evangelicalism of the dreaded “Christian Right.”
This political pattern reflects the fact that opposition to Christianity—not love for Judaism, Jews, or Israel—remains the sole unifying element in an increasingly fractious and secularized community. The old (and never fully realized) dream that Zionist fervor could weave together all the various ideological and cultural strands of American Jewry looks increasingly irrelevant and simplistic. In an era of budget plane flights and elegantly organized tours, more than 75 percent of American Jews have never bothered to visit Israel. The majority give nothing to Israel-related charities and shun synagogue or temple membership. The contrasting components of the American Jewish population connect only through a point of common denial, not through any acts of affirmation.
snip
Anyone who doubts that rejection of Jesus has replaced acceptance of Torah (or commitment to Israel) as the eekur sach—the essential element—of American Jewish identity should pause to consider an uncomfortable question. What is the one political or religious position that makes a Jew utterly unwelcome in the organized community? We accept atheist Jews, Buddhist Jews, pro-Palestinian Jews, Communist Jews, homosexual Jews, and even sanction Hindu-Jewish meditation societies. “Jews for Jesus,” however, or “Messianic Jews” face resistance and exclusion everywhere. In Left-leaning congregations, many rabbis welcome stridently anti-Israel speakers and even Palestinian apologists for Islamo-Nazi terror. But if they invited a “Messianic Jewish” missionary, they’d face indignant denunciation from their boards and, very probably, condemnation by their national denominational leadership. It is far more acceptable in the Jewish community today to denounce Israel (or the United States), to deny the existence of God, or to deride the validity of Torah than it is to affirm Jesus as Lord and Savior.
For many Americans, the last remaining scrap of Jewish distinctiveness involves our denial of New Testament claims, so any support for those claims becomes a threat to the very essence of our Jewish identity. Many Jews therefore view enthusiastic Christian believers—no matter how reliably they support Israel and American Jews—as enemies by definition. Rather than acknowledge the key role played by Christian Zionists (prominently including Harry Truman) in establishing and sustaining the U.S.-Israel alliance, liberal partisans love to invoke 2,000 years of bloody Christian anti-Semitism. Today, however, the echoes of that poisonous hatred, complete with seething contempt for the allegedly disloyal and manipulative -“Israel lobby” in American politics, turn up far more frequently in the newsrooms of prestige newspapers or the faculty lounges of Ivy League universities than they do in Baptist churches in Georgia or Alabama.
snip
Those who seek to liberate the bulk of American Jews from their reflexive and self-defeating liberalism must do more than show the logic of conservative thinking. They should recognize that Jews, like all Americans, vote not so much in favor of politicians they admire as they vote against causes and factions they loathe and fear. Jews fear the GOP as the “Christian party,” and as the sole basis of Jewish identity involves rejection of Christianity, Jews will continue to reject -Republicans and conservatism."
End Quote
Here is a video to put a exclamation point on it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jl-OJJVAEg
EV
What you call a 'strange enchantment'
is a distortion or perversion, the mental equivalent of an ingrowing
toenail, but a bit more serious for the rest of us.
To rephrase the title: Be Islamognostic.
Marx was the son of a christian-converted jewish family rejected in the german academic circles of his time. Rejection, frustration, resentment and obfuscation are powerful though evil forces. Jewish or not.
We, the westerners, should use our energies fighting the common lunatic enemy. For the unaware ones "luna" is spanish for moon
EV, More than 70% of orthodox Jews voted for Romney. I consider Romney to be a Christian. Maybe you do not. Most people consider him to be a practicing Christian.
So please stop with this nonsense about Jews hating and never supporting Christians. You are sounding like a Jew hater yourself.
Medved is not god--although you apparently reverence his opinions--and he was simply wrong, as was evidenced by the vote in the last election.
The more "Jewish" an American Jew is, the more he or she is likely to vote Conservative.
On the whole, it is the secular Jews--as well as the secular Christians--who support the left in this country.
Again--because you don't seem to get it--orthodox Jews vote conservative.
Secular Christians vote liberal.
This is the trend whether you like it or not.
Anonymous at 3:48,
Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with the myths and old fairy tales of the European tradition since I'm sure you think you want to defend the European/American tradition. An enchantmant was a very serious matter, often leading to death and destruction for the folk if not always for the protagonists.
EV,
P.S. Some of the greatest haters and fearers of the "religious right" are secular Christians and parts of the "religious left." This is true whether you like it or not. I think you would prefer to blame everything on the Joos.
70% of Jews voted for Obama but so did 71% of "Christian" Hispanics- why is that not a hot topic of conversation?
Anytime there is disproportionate attention to Jews I am immediately suspicious of the instigators intentions.
@Anonymous
70% of Jews voted for Obama but so did 71% of "Christian" Hispanics- why is that not a hot topic of conversation?
I don't think there is cause for suspicion. It has famously been said of Jews that they live like Episcopalians and vote like Puerto Ricans"...
Like most aphorisms, that paints a truth in overly broad strokes. Many, if not most, Hispanic Christians are poor, or lower middle class. And yes, they do face discrimination.
Likewise Jews face discrimination, but they aren't, for the most part poor. For their numbers in the population they are over-represented in the arts, academe, science, etc. But they famously do NOT vote in their own self-interest. At least not in America, unless one goes strictly by Orthodox Judaism.
I recommend most highly David Mamet's revealing book:
The Secret Knowledge: On the Dismantling of American Culture
Mamet was famously a leading liberal until his rabbi changed his mind by giving him books to read.
The Baron gave me the paperback for Christmas (we do that with "presents" - give one another books we'd like to read ourselves). I haven't finished reading it yet but Mamet writes this book the same way he writes his plays - deceptively simple with a pellucid style all his own. Above all, Mamet is a realist.
Traditionally the customer base of the Marxist crew were the have-nots and rejected minorities (Jewish people among others).
As this clientele shrank the commies targeted the so-called “approval sluts”, that is, individuals who constantly look for approval from others. Sexual or gender minorities therefore were an easy prey under promises of being socially empowered.
Then they devised an infinite pool of voters, a massive immigration, Africans in Europe and Hispanics in the USA.
The unintended consequences for the Marxists are that all the previous supporting groups are feeling left aside, politically orphan. They still vote left due to inertia, but inertia will end as FRICTION increases. Who will they vote for in the future is the unknown to be solve.
People have become confused about the definition of Christianity.
Just because other religions like Mormonism or Islam believe that a man named Christ existed in the past does NOT NOT NOT make those religions Christian.
Christianity celebrates the clear PRECEDENCE of Christ (as one part of the triune God) over ALL other prophets.
Both Mormonism and Islam deny the precedence of Christ.
Mormons are NOT now - nor ever were - Christian.
And neither is the Muslim Obama.
Egghead
Supporting liberal politics is common among all minorities in the Western world. But there is a greater issue, Grievance politics.
Grievance politics unites disparate minorities in unthinking opposition to the majority, even against rational self interest. It is not a rational policy, but atavistic resentment. The politics of grievance is an unthinking ersatz ethnic loyalty, wherein one defines oneself in opposition, rather than in being. It leads Jews to support political correctness, immigration of Muslims, and Third Worldism, even though these are all against their rational self interest as an Americans or as a Jews. It leads black leaders in America to support immigration, liberal social politics, and objectively failing education and social models. It leads ersatz nationalists like the Irish Republican and Scottish Nationalists to support immigration.
This minority nihilism will go on as long as the white West allows it to. We must stand up against it not only for our own survival, but also to save those afflicted with this illness. If the majority in America or the West does so, it will allow the rational loyal members of minorities to be heard. But first the civilizational AIDS of liberalism with its control of the media must be destroyed. Imagine if the media went to Thomas Sowell instead of Jesse Jackson, or Don Feder instead of Abe Foxman. The failure is not only of the Irish, Jews, Blacks, Hispanics. It is that of the English and WASPs. Extrapolate to your own nations.
If Islam and muslims are such a problem in the West why do the Jews keep bringing them here?
I tried posting this before perhaps there was a mistake or you just didn't want your readers to know the truth.
My impression is that the American middle class, whether Jewish, Christian or secular have not yet realized that the dream is rapidly becoming a nightmare, as US middleclass prosperity implodes, there is an 'Ostrich Moment' where people cling to their root values despite overwhelming evidence of their destruction.
I am in Israel because I have read the histories, I know how quickly the Holocaust crept up on Jews in the 1930's and entrapped them in its hostile grip. I am aware that National Socialism was a left of centre belief system and that the 'liberal' movement is facist to the core.
There is no longer any difference between extremes, to both, the end justifies the means, and to both, middleclass Americal must be destroyed to make way for modern two class political structures; the slaves and the ruling elites.
Anonymous at 8:58,
Yours is an astute commentary. However, to be accurate, the media doesn't have to go to Jesse Jackson or Abe Foxman. The media can go to Nancy Pelosi or Joe Biden or to many many WASPY types and hear the same politically correct messages. It's not just the politics of grievances on the part of the minorities; it is the whole mainstream culture. So whites have to cure themselves of this point of view as well as minorities.
Just a side note: in the multi-culti world Jews are considered to be white. So when it comes to set-asides and privileges for minority groups, they are not included. I have concluded that many of them really think that they are doing the right and good thing by supporting multiculturalism and that it is a way of showing compassion and "giving back." Many Christians feel the same.
This is what we are up against.
I just remembered that it was Ted Kennedy who opened the floodgates to 3rd world immigration in the U.S.
What was his motive?
"Just a side note: in the multi-culti world Jews are considered to be white."
EXCEPT - and this is an IMPORTANT except:
Jews think of and favor Jews as Jews rather than whites - in the same way that Mormons define each other and favor each other as Mormons rather than whites (fully realizing that the Mormon Church used to be and still is mainly white).
Both religious sects blatantly further the financial interests of their fellow religious adherents over Christian whites where possible.
"Mormons like to hire other Mormons, and those who lose their jobs can count on the church networks to find them openings elsewhere."
2007: The Presidency’s Mormon Moment
I sincerely believe that Jews use the SAME technique as Mormons and actively promote the financial interests of other Jews - rather than white Christians.
Jews matriculate at Harvard at a percentage that indicates that the plan is to promote Jews forward - even if Jews are called whites and think of themselves as whites, it is still minority Jews who benefit from the label of white instead of majority white Christians.
Jews are enrolled at Harvard at a rate far above their percentage of population - and take up too many of the spaces allocated to white people - to the disadvantage of smart white Christian people.
Put another way: Does anyone here REALLY believe that there are NOT enough smart white Christian high school men to succeed in the Ivy League colleges that were FOUNDED by smart white Christian men and attended by smart white Christian men until the recent civil rights movement UNJUSTLY disadvantaged smart white Christian males?
If so, that would be news to our Founding Fathers who were ALL - to a man - raised as smart Christian white men!
"According to Unz, today at Harvard College, Hispanic and black enrollment has reached 7 percent and 8 percent, respectively, slightly less than the 10 percent and 12 percent of the U.S. population that is Hispanic and black. This has been a cause of protests at Harvard, as Hispanics and African-Americans insist on more proportional representation.
"But Unz does not stop there. He goes on to report that nearly 20 percent of the Harvard College student body is Asian-American, and 25 percent to 33 percent is Jewish, though Asian-Americans make up only 3 percent of the U.S. population and Jewish-Americans even less than 3 percent. Thus, 50 percent of Harvard’s student body is drawn from about 5 percent of the U.S. population!
"When one adds foreign students, students from our tiny WASP elite and children of graduates, what emerges is a Harvard student body where non-Jewish whites — 75 percent of the U.S. population — get just 25 percent of the slots. Talk about underrepresentation! Now we know who really gets the shaft at Harvard — white Christians.
"The same situation, says Unz, exists at other elite schools like Yale, Princeton, Columbia, Berkeley and Stanford, where Chelsea Clinton goes. As Hispanics, Asians, African-American and Jewish-Americans also vote overwhelming Democratic, the picture that emerges is not a pretty one. A liberal elite is salving its social conscience by robbing America’s white middle class of its birthright, and handing it over to minorities, who just happen to vote Democratic."
1998: The Dispossession of Christian Americans
2013: Jewish Students at Colleges and Universities
Egghead
@ Egghead--
As a first-generation American who grew up in a minority Catholic ghetto, the behavior you describe seems 'normal' to me. The Catholics tended to frequent Catholic-owned businesses. And i've now seen that come 'round again in Christian fundamentalist circles: "support our own".
It's an interesting phenomenon and one that is often missing from black culture at large. In fact, you'd best not offend the group by "acting white" - e.g., being too scholarly or acting "above your raising". Originally this restriction on behavior probably arose from a sense of survival but after all these generations it's maladaptive.
Changing that is hard. Bill Cosby sure has tried, as has Ben Ben Carson, the head of pediatric neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins. They've put their own money into projects to turn back from a fatal mistake made generations ago: follow the bitter, anti-assimilationist DuBois, or take the high road with Douglass or G.W. Carver. For a while it was touch-and-go, but Du Bois' hatreds (and Paul Robeson, too), won out - to the detriment of so many wasted lives.
In the end, all it took was the heavy hand of helpful, patronizing leftist goverment to smash black culture entirely. And no one has found a way to put it back together, as the left continues its smashing of poor whites now.
"Liberal Jews" are not really Jews. They are Jews of Jewish ancestry and share Jewish genetics, but have no deep concern for the future of the Jewish people. Nor do they share a deep interest in Jewish etics and morality. Hence, Liberal Jews are the most outspoken proponents of values that are antithetical to Judaism and God, i.e. abortion, homosexual marriage, etc.
We must beging to excommunicate liberal Jews and set them apart from the house of Judah. Their sedition and pussilanimous cow-towing to Islam will get us all killed.
Anonymous.
What you say about Jews helping Jews is an antisemitic canard. There is no truth to it whatsoever.
In my life, I have always had more success with non-Jews and have had little or no help from fellow Jews. In fact, my being Jewish has meant nothing in the least to my fellow Jewish cohorts.
As for the success of Jews academically. We are gifted intellectually. That is why we do well in academia and other endeavors. It has nothing to do with favortism of Jews but sheer intellectual ability.
There are over a hundred Jewish recipients of the Nobel Prize and only three Moslems.
You must challenge your anti-Jewish notions anonymous. It is that type of thinking that keeps you down.
Ah, Dymphna: The ONLY reason that I mentioned the propensity of Jews to promote Jews is BECAUSE one anonymous commenter claimed that 'Jews are considered to be whites.'
The refutation to that is that Jews favor Jews BECAUSE Jews do NOT consider themselves to be whites where Jews would favor ALL whites or the majority of whites who are Christian whites. Rather, Jews STILL favor Jews - whether the 'Liberal Jews' favor 'Liberal Jews' - or conservative Jews favor conservative Jews. Nota bene the conservative Jews in Israel who still literally spit on Christians.
And, 'multi-culti' society still favors Jews where Jews enjoy a disproportionately large number of nominally white slots that should - by standards of fairness and/or diversity - go to Christian whites.
Anyone who claims that a 3% Jewish population would legitimately beat out a 75% white population to fill 30% of white slots at Harvard is unbelievable. While Jews MAY be generally smarter than whites, we are dealing with many millions of students. Ivy Leagues can surely locate and enroll as many - really many more - smart Christian whites as smart Jews. But, Ivy Leagues admit a statistically indefensible number of Jews. Asians are smart, and yet Asians face discrimination where Ivy Leagues decline to be Asian-only schools. Blacks may be less competitively smart as shown by the continuing need to 'add' affirmative action points to their GPAs and high school grade point averages on college applications, and yet blacks gain entry into Ivy Leagues over many competitively smarter and thus deserving people.
The idea that tribes support their own people SEEMS obvious, but the United States was built on the rule of law instead of tribal law.
Christian whites now accept and promote other tribes OVER their own tribe. But, by appearances, Jews easily and readily promote either Liberal or conservative Jewish interests over Christian white interests. The idea that Liberal Jewish goals conflict with conservative Jewish goals is irrelevant where BOTH sects of Jews promote their own tribal interests.
To maintain that is it 'normal' for tribes to promote their own interests over other tribes is pernicious to the rule of law.
The truth hurts, but it still stares us in the face.
Egghead
Egghead said:
"The refutation to that is that Jews favor Jews BECAUSE Jews do NOT consider' themselves to be whites where Jews would favor ALL whites or the majority of whites who are Christian whites. Rather, Jews STILL favor Jews - whether the 'Liberal Jews' favor 'Liberal Jews' - or conservative Jews favor conservative Jews. Nota bene the conservative Jews in Israel who still literally spit on Christians."
What a convoluted argument. To me, it is a sound a fury signifying nothing.
Because I did not say and did not mean that Jews don't consider themselves to be white.
And since I wrote it, I ought to know what I meant.
All the Jews I know do consider themselves to be white as does multiculturalism.
To what lengths will you go to mistate or twist an argument so that it conforms to your prejudices?
"...as shown by the continuing need to 'add' affirmative action points to their GPAs and high school grade point averages on college applications...."
Oops, I meant to say SATs and GPAs.
Egghead
To the anonymous self-identified Jewish commenter:
Please be aware that, while YOU could respond to my posts, Baron omitted to publish my polite but eviscerating response to YOU - believe me that I am fully capable of logically refuting various points that YOU make.
The ACTIONS of Jews as a GROUP - Liberal or conservative - show that Jews consider themselves to be Jews first and foremost.
White people NEVER claim to those who criticize whites that critics are anti-Semitic, anti-Jewish, or prejudiced. YOUR arguments DEFINE you as Jewish and as victim - NOT as white and as perpetrator (that is the modern definition of white - see George Zimmerman, the newly minted white Hispanic).
Despite what YOU may think of your racial affiliation, YOU act Jewish - just look at your last three posts where YOU define YOURSELF as being Jewish and being offended. YEESH!
A BIG part of the problem is that whites are disallowed to debate about issues of race and identity for fear of being (mis)labeled as YOU have (mis)labeled me.
It is SO easy for YOU to casually defame me and no one - least of all YOU - bats an eyelash. But, let me respond logically to your email - and POOF - my post goes into the ether.
Egghead
"All the Jews I know do consider themselves to be white as does multiculturalism."
P.S. I have read that Middle Eastern Muslims truly think of themselves as white, too, and are upset to be thought of as abd or African Muslims. So, do you think that Middle Eastern Muslims are white first and foremost - or are Middle Eastern Muslims actually Muslim first and foremost?!
WWMS - What Would Mohammed Say?
Mohammed would say that Middle Eastern Muslims are Muslims first and foremost - and should act like Muslims first and foremost - or be murdered by Muslims who act like Muslims first and foremost.
P.S.S. You know when YOU are white because YOU are the one getting called anti-Semitic by Jews and racist by blacks.
Egghead
Spot on Egghead. An anti-semite is not one who hates Jews, but a person
who the Jews hate. I know that must be correct because a Jew told me it was.
Anonymous at 12:31 PM
If a Jew told you that, then it must be true, right? The individual must be someone whom you respect very much for that person's opinion to have so much weight. Because of course we all know that Hitler was not antisemitic--the Jews just hated him, right? And we all know that the leader of Hamas who called for the killing of all Jews worldwide is not antisemitic, right? The Jews just hate him. He's not antisemitic. In fact antisemitism doesn't exist. Must be the case since someone told you so.
Egghead,
There's no pleasing you ever on this topic, is there, unless you can condemn without evidence. Yes, without valid evidence.
First you insist that Jews consider themselves to be so separate that they always support each other to the detriment of "whites." And then, when I comment that all the Jews I know consider themselves to be white and, thus,by implication, are not supporting each other to the exclusion of other whites, you claim that Jews they are not not white.
From your point of view Jews can't be white. Because you keep wanting to insist that they are working against whites. And if they are white or consider themselves to be white, that could undercut your arguments.
And upon what evidence? That they are disproportionately present in higher education and academia?
Chinese-Americans are disproportionately present at the University of California, Berkeley. even though they have a much harder time being admitted than African-Americans and Hispanics. This is not because Chinese-Americans at the university are giving special preference to ethnic Chinese. In fact, the typical Chinese-American student admitted has to have higher test scores and better grades than Blacks, Hispanics and even whites to be admitted.
Some Chinese-American parents complain about this.
For your information, there used to be quotas against Jews at universities such as Harvard and Yale and the major medical schools. Otherwise, according to these schools, so many Jews were qualified that "too many" would have been admitted. Because of their qualifications, nothing else.
You should read the comments by Unknown. Jews as a group tend to be intellectually gifted. Whether this is due to nature or nurture I will leave to others to determine.
I do know that jealousy often leads to hatred and resentment. And sometimes antisemitism.
Baron: I ask your permission to frankly address in great detail on this 'old' thread the comments that refer to me personally?
Hopefully, readers would be able to differentiate your allowing me to respond from your advocating my viewpoint?
Egghead
Egghead --
Absolutely. You generally stay within our rules of discourse, so fire away.
Just because I let you post your opinion doesn't mean I have to agree with what you say.
Egghead, don't take all this anti-semitism talk too seriously, it is nothing but an unimportant little
thing in peoples minds, it's not
real.Like racism and the other isms, it has been blown up out of all proportion to its importance. IT
DOESN'T MATTER. You are correct about
one thing though, Hitler wasn't anti-semitic, he was just a very intelligent person who could see that not all Jews are living saints.
Not all people are living saints. So I guess the "solution" is to murder them all.
To the anonymous commenters, pick a name please so that it is easier to debate.
Egghead
Dudes: I NEVER mentioned Hitler - which IS precisely the point that I am making. Whenever any white person highlights the injustice that RACIST affirmative action perpetrates on white Christians, the many various beneficiaries of affirmative action immediately and viciously defame ALL white people of ALL past, present, and future times - with white people being defined by me as white Christians where perhaps-self-identified 'white' Jews, 'white' Hispanics, 'white' Muslims, and 'white-acting' blacks all benefit from affirmative action at the direct expense of white Christians who suffer from blatant anti-white (anti-male) and anti-Christian bias.
If YOU want to claim to be white, then STOP claiming affirmative action benefits for either your own or any other racial and/or religious subsets.
Which is it: Are Jewish students enrolled because Jews are smarter than white Christians, OR because all past, present, and future white Christians 'owe' all current and future Jewish people something to 'atone' for past discrimination or Hitler's aborted Final Solution.
Let me tell YOU something: Two of my white Christian grandfathers fought in World War II to save Jewish people from Hitler's Final Solution. My grandfathers missed YEARS with their young families and risked their lives to save Europe from the very death wish that it exhibits AGAIN. In the future, my white son and daughter will probably be drafted to war to fix the Marxist-Muslim problem being (re)created as we speak. Before any Jewish person accuses to me of the past sins of Hitler and the aborted Final Solution, that same Jewish person should ask their OWN Jewish people WHO they expect to save the Jewish people in the coming World War III.
See, while I am talking about the CURRENT injustice of affirmative action and arguing that Jewish people support this injustice because Jewish benefit from it, you are talking about the PAST injustice of Hitler and the aborted Final Solution WITHOUT so much as a passing THANK YOU to the many brave white Christians who sacrificed their lives for the past, present, and future benefit of Jewish people everywhere and WITHOUT so much genius as a small forward thought to befriend white Christians who will be your BEST friends and allies in the coming World War III.
Find YOUR gratitude. Like it or not, it was white Christians who saved Jews in World War II. And, it will be white Christians who save Jews in the coming World War III. Oh, and it will be Jesus Christ who will save Jews at the end of the world....
Egghead
Egghead,
I think the only person who mentioned Hitler before you did was someone who supports you.
Egghead said: "If YOU want to claim to be white, then STOP claiming affirmative action benefits for either your own or any other racial and/or religious subsets."
I neither claim benefits nor have I received them. As a matter of fact, I have suffered from affirmative action and multiculturalism and could tell stories about both that might curl your hair. I have listened to numbers of people tell their stories about their experiences in the workplace or in academe. You make presumptions and accusations that have no basis in fact.
I certainly never accused you of the past sins of Hitler. I was responding sarcastically to a commentator who commented upon Hitler-- apparently in an effort to support you and your opinions.
I strongly disagree with you that Jewish people gain benefits from affirmative action. Where did you get such an idea? I reside in an area which is extremely liberal and I know all about multiculturalism as practiced.
For the purposes of multiculturalism, Jews are considered to be white. They not only don’t benefit from affirmative action but are hurt by it. I have Jewish male friends who can attest to this because they have suffered from it I also have Christian male friends who have suffered from it. I have suffered from it. My friends know and I know and many people know that liberal Jews act against their own interests when they support multiculturalism and affirmative action. The multiculturalists do not distinguish Jews from other whites for the purposes of employment, whatever you may think. All white liberals are acting against their own best interests, not just Jews.
Suffering is the operative word here. I have seen the careers of very capable people ruined because they were not members of the preferred groups in the multi-culti scheme of things.
I too am talking about the present situation. On liberal college campuses today (are there any other kind?), Jews are often despised by multiculturalists more than whites in general. Israel is generally used as the excuse for this. Many of our college campuses have been so “Palestinianized” that a religious Jew cannot walk on campus without being either verbally or physically attacked if he is wearing anything that indicates that he is Jewish.
What makes you think that I’m ungrateful for U.S. actions in WWI or that other Jews are ungrateful? I too have close relatives who fought in WWII, at least one of whom died. Of course we did not enter WWII to save Jews but rather because we were attacked. Neverthless, European Jews owe the U.S. a great debt of gratitude. Europe also owes the U.S. a debt of gratitude, in my opinion, for our actions in WWII and our protection afterwards: without this protection Europe probably would not have socialized medicine today, it would have Soviet medicine. I think you are setting up a strawman to knock down or are tiliting at windmills.
I have made similar arguments that the best hope for Jews in the future is to allay with Christian groups—we are natural allies in this counterjihad.
My experience in interacting with liberals is extensive—they surround me. I have reviewed my experiences in talking with liberal Christians (practicing or secular) about what is called the “Christian right” and my experiences in talking about the same subject with liberal Jews. According to my observations, there has not been much difference. Both “groups” dislike the “religious right.” Liberals of all stripes have a tendency to scorn, loathe and fear what they call the “religious right.” There may be slightly more loathing and scorn on the part of Christians and slightly more fear on the part of the Jews, but this is just relative.
This is how it is in my extremely politically liberal area.
Egghead:
p.s. With respect to liberal attitudes toward the "religious right," I realize after thinking further about my experiences that there is definitley more fear on the part of the Jews. Those liberals of Christian background tend to despise and scorn more than fear, although there are many exceptions.
I am a long time reader of this site, and a long time supporter of this site, and for the first time, I feel uncomfortable reading both the text but mainly the comments.
I am an Israeli Jew, secular, of French origin (where I fulfilled my citizen and military obligations before leaving ) and a staunch Zionist, living on the Syrian border.
I won't even enter the particulars of those discussions as some are nothing but new versions of old stories known already to my Shtetl great grand parents, while the new stories are for some quite weird (the Khazar one comes from some Israeli ultra left wing professor and was obviously rehashed for an innovative use)
Anyway, when it comes to Liberal Jews and their overwhelming democratic vote, that I personally ridicule at any occasion, do not forget that the Jews do not represent more than 1.4% of the US population.
Unknown --
I can understand your discomfort. I cut off discussions like this on many other threads, because they are off-topic, but this one is on-topic. The widespread support of Jews in the West for Multiculturalism in general, and the Democrat Party in particular, is at issue here.
Jews are over-represented in almost all intellectual and academic activities. That includes the Counterjihad — probably half of the most staunch Counterjihad activists I know, including a number in Europe, are Jews. That is far in excess of their proportion in the general population. They are also ardent supporters of the traditional values of the countries in which they live. This is why I refuse to join the Jew-bashing that seems all too common among right-wing nationalists.
However, in the USA liberal Jews carry far more influence than the 1.4% figure might suggest. Many are wealthy, and a number of them occupy influential positions within the media, and are thereby a disproportionate part of the trans-national effort to deconstruct Western society and values. This is one of the main reasons for the animus against Jews — the perception that they “own” the media.
The dedicated Jewish activists I know, numerous as they are, are neither wealthy nor powerful. Perhaps there is a correlation between owning great wealth and the need to inflict Multiculturalism on the rest of the population. The majority of wealthy WASPs are also ready to sell their country down the river — how many very wealthy people can you think of who are ready to pump their money and influence into preserving their country? Yes, there are some, but they are far outnumbered by those who would expend their wealth (or that of the foundations they control) on causes that destroy they culture that created the privileged position they have been fortunate enough to occupy.
I think it would be much more productive to discuss the issue in these terms. But so many people are eager to fight about the Jews instead. ’Twas ever thus.
Unknown, I am philosemtic, and a staunch supporter of Israel for a plethora of reasons.
American (and other diaspora Jews) punch above their demographic weight, as you well know...especially in political and cultural endeavors (Jews make up 11% of the US Congress or there abouts).
Additionally, Obama won the election by less than a 2% margin, and Jews made the difference in the important State of Florida.
All that being said, yes Jews are a small minority, but they are allied with larger minorities against the majority European Christians (including self hating European Christians). What is necessary is for European Christians to recognize that the vast majority American Jews are their political and cultural enemies. Not focus on them to the exclusion of others.
As you well know the vast majority of Arab Christians are the political and cultural enemies of the Israeli Jews. To acknowledge that isnt a crime against humanity.
We dont have the luxury of ignoring minority groups as harmless around the edges anymore. They just re-elected Obama given his attrocious economic performance, this is unprecedented.
Time to make a list and check it twice. Find out who is your friend and who is your enemy and who you might be able to turn from enemy to friend. I happen to think that Jews are a natural ally of European Christians. Im a big fan of Jewish Neo-Cons. But the fact of the matter is that you have to understand the mindset of Jews, before you can persuade them to not make themselves your enemy. Perhaps Islam and mass Muslim immigration is the key to that realignment.
Jewish Nationalists and tribalists dont bother me one bit. Hopefully Jews will come to realize that European Christian nationalists dont have to be your boogeymen, thus alienating them and creating animosity towards Jews. However European Diaspora Jews like Barbara Spectre in Sweden are doing their best to create animosity towards Jews with their political activiity.
Hopefully we can overcome the suspicion and hostility and instead work to mutually reinforce our respective nations and peoples in the face of real nasty enemies. But Jews in the US and Europe are going to have to accept that these are European Christian nation states and stop working to disempower European Christians, stop demonizing and delegitimizing them as European Christian nation states with European Christian dominion. Hopefully the Left's assault on Israel as a Jewish State and the demonization, delegitimization, subversion, disempowerment, etc of Israeli Jews will help them to see what they are and have supported regarding Eruopean Christian nation states and polities. If they dont, and continue to demonstrate hypocrisy, one can only surmise that it isnt ignorance but by choice, that they do this, and they should then be treated as hostiles to be ostracized from positions of power within them.
This is just the reality of the situtation. It isnt pretty, but it's pretty accurate.
Hope that helps.
Best
EV
EV,
I appreciate your commentary. Here are a couple of points.
When we are speaking about support for multiculturalism, it seems to me that, to a large degree, it is a matter of socioeconomic class. I would say that 80 to 90% of our intellectual elites support multiculturalism. There are many Jews among them but the majority of course are not Jewish. Obviously Jews are overrepresented in this "class," but they share the outlooks and prejudices of the whole group.
The Jews who voted against Obama--and by a wide margin--are the orthodox Jews who tend to be poorer.
By the way, since they also tend to have large families and the liberal Jews are not reproducing themselves, they will change the political allegience of American Jews within the next generation (I hope we have that long).
For whatever reasons, the most educated and wealthy people in our society support
multiculturalism.
I'm sorry to belabor a point, but since Jews belong to these groups in numbers which are much larger than their number in the population, you would expect that a higher percentage of them would support multiculturalism. They don't realize that their cultural and physical survival depends upon their voting conservative and they are blind to the danger of resurgent Islam. I have not done a statistical analysis to confirm this, but it looks to me like this is the case.
I'm not claiming that it is the entire explanation, but it is salient and often overlooked.
Of course I want to shake them till their teeth rattle to shake some sense into them.
Most people are not deep thinkers. When it begins to dawn on them that their ideology is faulty, there are strong forces keeping them where they are. Liberal Jews renouncing and denouncing multiculturalism have to brave the disapproval (to put it mildly) of their liberal peers, the antisemitism of the political Left and some on the political Right will continue to hate them anyway just because they are Jews. Nevertheless, some of the strongest counterjihad voices are Jewish.
I hope to see a sea change in the next decade.
OK, Egghead here, I am going to dive in again. I send this message first because the Baron may or may not decide to publish my rebuttals to various comments.
Baron, I give you a LOT of credit for trying to be fair despite the idea that Jewish readers might be offended.
Maybe it is time for some people to be offended. I feel that we Christian whites in the West have been tiptoeing around ALL of our minorities for WAY too long with the result that the West is on its polite quiet way to World War III - which will be decidedly impolite with regard to race and religion.
Finally, I continue to ask that commenters attach a name to their comments. It's a pain trying to keep you all straight....
Egghead
EV,
P.S. I would call our culture a Judeo-Christian culture.
"Put another way: Does anyone here REALLY believe that there are NOT enough smart white Christian high school men to succeed in the Ivy League colleges that were FOUNDED by smart white Christian men and attended by smart white Christian men until the recent civil rights movement UNJUSTLY disadvantaged smart white Christian males?"
ANSWER THE QUESTION! OK, I WILL.
So, let's address the 'jealousy' argument, that 75% population of white Christians who are cut out of Ivy Leagues, etc., where 1.4-3% population of Jews receive 30% of slots are really just jealous of genius Jews - you know, genius Jews who are supposedly that much smarter than everyone else which is the reason for the statistically indefensible high rate of admissions of Jews - in contrast to white Christians.
Prove it. That's right, I said PROVE that the Jews who are being admitted to the Ivy Leagues are REALLY more genius than white Christians who are cut out - and PROVE that the admission process to Ivy Leagues, etc., actually includes objective measures of Jewish genius measuring more than white Christian genius - prior to the first half of the senior year of high school (or later in life for older students).
I come from a very bright family, and I am very familiar with the admissions process for colleges and scholarships in addition to graduate schools and fellowships. At a certain point, EVERYONE who applies to the Ivy Leagues, etc., has great test scores, advanced coursework, great grades, and a boatload of activities on their applications - well, everyone except various minority - yada yada yada - applicants who get bonus points added to their test scores and grades - even though they ALREADY got better grades than they should have in high school due to either a general lack of intellectual competition or, more commonly, affirmative action grading. Oy vey!
So, when EVERYONE is measurably great, how do 1.4-3% population Jews get enrolled in 30% of the slots at the Ivy Leagues? How indeed?!
IT IS AFFIRMATIVE ACTION FOR SMART JEWS! Not genius Jews for there are VERY few geniuses in a world full of smart people. The genius Jews would get admitted anyway - and deservedly so. But, average run-of-the-mill smart Jews - ones who get perfect scores on their standardized tests BUT are still NOT really geniuses - yes, those run-of-the-mill smart Jews are favored OVER the run-of-the-mill smart white Christians who also get perfect scores on their standardized tests.
Egghead - Part 1
So, you say that YOU, as a Jew, have NOT benefited from Jewish affirmative action. So what?!
The argument that EVERY single middle class secular, liberal, or conservative Jew does NOT benefit from affirmative action does NOT preclude A LOT of run-of-the-mill smart Jews from benefiting from affirmative action. And, we can PROVE that this is happening when we examine the statistically indefensible enrollment rates of Jews in the Ivy Leagues, etc.
And, when white Christians call foul on this affirmative action that works for the interests of Jews and against the interests of white Christians, we are called jealous if we are lucky - and anti-Semitic by rote reflex.
And, NOBODY but NOBODY is offering to change the admissions system of the Ivy Leagues, etc., to be more fair to smart white Christians.
So, we have various minorities who claim that they should be admitted in the same percentage as their percentage of the population - based on bonus points for their NOT being as competitively smart as much smarter people.
And, we have Jews who contend that they should be admitted in a much greater percentage than their percentage of the population - based on their being those much smarter people (mainly 'proved' by references to ancestors who won awards in the last hundred years - yada yada yada).
Then, we have Asians who seem to prove that great test scores and grades do NOT a genius make - because the measure of genius is RESULTS - you know - actual RESULTS rather than great test scores and grades. Even so, the Asians are the 'smart' minorities who argue that they too should be admitted based on their being much smarter people - rather than cut out based on their low percentage of the population.
And yet, we talking about MILLIONS and MILLIONS of applicants to Ivy Leagues, etc., and EVERYONE who applies is a much smarter person - yada yada yada - than the average from even their own segment of the population. So, how is it that smart white Christians are at such a noticeable marked disadvantage to matriculate at the Ivy Leagues, etc., - especially compared to Jews who comprise such a small proportion of the population?
The ONLY reasonable answer is that, in this particular and greatly beneficial case for Jews, smart Jews do indeed receive affirmative action that recognizes and rewards their minority status as Jews. The continuing lucrative lifelong affirmative action benefit is that smart Jews receive substantial further education and employment advancement that derives mainly from their initial enrollment in the Ivy Leagues, etc.
Egghead - Part 2
More to come as I have time. Egghead
Egghead,
So how is it that Chinese-Americans are admitted to the University of California out of all proportion to their numbers in the population?
Many are turned away each year with "straight A" grade averages and very high test scores.
On average, they have to have higher test scores and better grades than whites to be admitted--otherwise there would be "too many" of them admitted. Some people looking at the undergraduates on the campus think that there are already too many of them.
And on average, they outscore whites on tests and obtain better grades in high school.
So is all this because they are a "favored" group? Their test scores are higher because they are a favored group?
They are admitted to the university at a rate out of all proportion to their numbers in the population. Affirmative action works against them. Because numbers of very well qualified Asians are denied admittance so that the university can accept a certain number of Hispanics, Blacks, etc. If students were admitted strictly on their academic merits, not only would there be fewer Blacks and Hispanics, there would also be fewer whites.
I really think that you do not know what you are talking about.
You really sound like a good multiculturalist who seeks equality of results, rather than equality of opportunity.
Comparing the test scores of those admitted with the test scores of those not admitted does not bear out your accusations.
Affirmative action does not apply to Jews in the academic world. You are far off the mark here--outrageously so!
Egghead, one more thing.
Not only are Jews NOT given affirmative action now at Ivy League universities, but years ago there was a quota AGAINST them. Otherwise "too many" of them would have been admitted because so many well-qualified Jews applied. This was true for the better medical schools as well. Jews managed to do well in spite of this!
I'm sure you would like to bring this quota system back. You want your group to get your share.
At least be honest about it.
Your accusations are false and outrageous.
I guess that the educated readers will decide for themselves....
I am taking about the Ivy Leagues which are a special case because they are a conduit to political and economic power and success.
I am talking about the FACT that it is DEFINITELY possible to find totally qualified white Christian applicants to enroll in the Ivy Leagues UNLESS the enrollment is rigged to favor minorities over white Christian applicants.
"You want your group to get your share." Yes, but YOU are the one making the point that YOU are MY group. Which is it? Why are YOU so upset that white Christians would want to get a share? Are you as upset when other minorities want to get a share? Why should stupider and smarter minorities all get a share at the expense of white Christians getting a share?
To be fair to white Christians, Jews MUST pick an admissions method to support. If Jews want to support admissions based on intellect, then white Christians will be enrolled in larger numbers and thus be treated fairly. If Jews want to support admissions based on percentage of population, then white Christians will be enrolled in larger numbers and thus be treated fairly.
The current ugly hybrid admissions method is a double whammy against white Christians because Jews are enrolled above their fair share of population due to their largely unproven-by-high-school 'genius' intellect, and less competitively smart minorities are enrolled under their level of population but above their fair share due to their generally and sadly-apparent-in-high-school lack of 'genius' intellect.
Test scores are irrelevant because all of the applicants to the Ivy Leagues have perfect or very high test scores and grades!
Asian enrollments are irrelevant to compare to Jewish enrollments because there are many more Asians in the population than there are Jews in the population!
Thus, the comparison of Asians to Jews lends credence to the idea that Jews are enrolled in the Ivy Leagues above their low population level due to affirmative action intended to benefit Jews over other smart population groups.
To be fair to white Christians, either enroll students based on strict population percentages OR enroll students based on intellect.
I vote for intellect. But, I know that smart white Christians should be enrolled at a significantly higher percentage than is current practice in the Ivy Leagues.
More later.
Egghead
Egghead,
With respect to Chinese-Americans admitted to top flight universities, we are talking about percentages relative to their numbers in the population. Those are exactly the same metrics used with respect to Jewish enrollment. It doesn't matter that there are more Asians in the population than Jews--when we speak about percentages we are talking about the same thing. You do not seem to understand this basic concept.
Asians are enrolled at U.C. Berkeley in higher numbers than their percentage of the population. This is not due to affirmative action. Affirmative action has nothing to do with their higher test scores and better academic performance. The same is true for Jews.
Yes, let's definitely enroll students based upon intellect and academic performance. The results for Jews will be exactly the same as they are now.
Whether you like it or not.
Egghead,
One last thing (I hope),
Having said that, I must say that I do want to see a mostly white country. A majority (percentage?) white U.S.A. is a Western country with an American/European Judeo-Christian culture. This is worth fighting for in order to preserve it.
As I recall, it was Ted Kennedy who was instrumental in opening the floodgates to massive third world immigration into the the United States. What was he thinking?
WRONG! The Ivy League admissions problem is a PURE STATISTICAL MATH problem.
The primary question is whether the 75% white Christian population in the USA produces more, equal, or less potential geniuses and very smart students as 1.4-3% Jewish population in the USA.
You can answer that question by percent of population or by raw number of population. Even if Jews carry a slightly or even moderately higher IQ than white Christians, the sheer number of white Christians provides white Christians with a vastly larger base to draw potential geniuses and very smart students.
The primary answer is that MATH would indicate that the 75% white Christian population would easily produce a greater number or MORE potential geniuses and very smart students then the 1.4-3% Jewish population.
You see, while some Jews were busy winning Nobel prizes so were white Christians. I am sure that white Christians invented a lot of great stuff and won a lot of awards over the last hundred years - and also before the last hundred years....
The secondary question is whether the X% Asian population in the USA (which draws from an extremely large worldwide Asian population - even larger now that Muslims are 'honorary' Asians! Ha!) produces more, equal, or less potential geniuses and very smart students as 1.4-3% Jewish population (which draws from a very small worldwide population compared to Asians - and white Christians). In other words, Jews and Asians produce a certain percentage of potential geniuses and very smart students, BUT do Asians produce a greater total NUMBER of potential geniuses and very smart students?
Of course, X% Asian population worldwide MUST produce a greater raw number of potential geniuses and very smart students than X% Jewish population worldwide! The math is IMPOSSIBLE to refute - especially where Jews may NOT even have a statistically significant higher IQ than Asians.
However, one tends to speculate that Jews split their potential geniuses and very smart students between Israel and the USA whereas Asians split their potential geniuses and very smart students between Asia and the USA.
It may be that potential geniuses and very smart students from Asia seek out the freedom that is only available to them in the USA, so the USA may have a much higher percentage of Asian geniuses and very smart students than Asia would prefer or admit. The USA may distill, as it were, Asian genius into a purer and more concentrated form than if Asia were free.
And yet, when freed from MARXISM, will high IQ Asians realize their potential genius with genius RESULTS? We hope to see....
Other relevant questions revolve around the validity of IQ tests to measure IQ, the validity of IQ to predict genius and success, the validity of using standardized test scores as a measure of IQ (or vice versa), and the validity of the idea that past genetic success predicts future genetic success (i.e., that potential geniuses and very smart students will replicate the erudition, invention, and honor of their bright ancestors).
In any case, the United States of America is the HOMELAND of white Christians who completely deserve FAIR and EQUITABLE enrollment in the Ivy Leagues.
Egghead
I do hope to address more of the previous comments as time permits.
Egghead
Oh my dear Egghead, please give it a rest. This is an eternally infernally thorny subject that gets everyone in an uproar. Unless you plan to pour a little calming oil on troubled waters, please resist the temptation.
=============================
As for Anon with the PURE STASTICAL MATH PROBLEM...no need to yell your stated premise. This overly long thread could use some calm.
Besides you've failed to take into account the fact that anything w/ human beings amongst the variables under consideration is "purely math". Culture plays a huge part in any 'problem' concerning human ambition viewed thru an educational filter.
Here's a thought experiment to prove my point.Let's pretend we're in an urban area, not poverty stricken, just average income folks.In this experiment, we're going to put together some kids and have them interact with one another and with an environment we create just for them.
First, all these children will be between the ages of nine and eleven.
Second, there will be about ten kids in each group.
Oh, I forgot - they'll be all BOYS, and will be certified free of whatever the latest learning disorder on offer is. Also, no sib groups allowed (eliminates family competition). And NONE are first-generation Americans. That would skew the results.
So you've got ten each of
* White boys (make 'em Christian if you want but throw in a few non-churched to make it real),
* Black boys (again Christian or not),
*Asian boys (also optional Christian.Many increasingly are),
* Ashkenazi Jewish kids (secular, atheist, or religious. If the latter, Orthodox, Conservative, or Reformed).
[I've deliberatly left out Hispanic kids. Too many variables re immigration status, language, etc]
Okay. We have 40 noisy boys. And at these ages, I will guarantee noise and movement. As in bouncing off the walls.
In our experiment, we're going to give these 40 boys a choice of activities. Video games won't be one of them since they tend to isolate and induce anxiety.
There will be board games - chess, checkers,or group types like the ones you remember from childhood. Also singles games like Slinky, Leggo, Etch-a-Sketch.
The boys have skate-boarding w/ a variety of boards & shoes from which to choose; basketball; a structured class in martial arts; a large attractive library devoted to children's literature, computers with interactive learning materials: math, geography exploration, history, language, etc; an art studio with various kinds of materials- sculpting, pottery, painting or drawing & friendly tutors to stand by if they have questions. There is also a large, inviting playground with all the climbing equipment, hiding places, tracks for sprinting, etc., that some kids love.
Now for the tweak: each boy's mother will be present. She will be fully present sans phone, ipad, computer, books, or other children to care for in this afternoon experiment. In addition, she will be statinary and solitary: no groupings of mothers deep in chit-chat. No following her kid around. But he may go to her as often as he likes and she'll always be where he left her.If he asks her to move closer so he can keep an eye on her, that's okay. She may observe everything to her heart's content but she may not kvetch or kibbitz.
Any guesses you want to make here? Want to say which kids will do what? You have to back up your hypotheses with robust 'proofs' based on your experience with boys. "Research" findings are suspect unless you're familiar with the integrity of the researchers or if you knAow who provided the funding and to what end. Not ALL research is fungible but far too much turns out to be.
If you're knowledgable about child development, how boys differ from girls, etc., you're ahead of the game.
Anon/Unknown,
My reply seems to have gotten lost in cyberspace, but hopefully we can continue to talk in the future, which I think is important. So that we may learn where we are both coming from, increase mutual understanding and lesson the fear and distrust.
PS - I think Egghead is over the top and barking up some wrong trees.
Shalom
EV
OK, Dymphna: White Christians are ALWAYS expected to 'please give it a rest' in your words as if we are 'inconvenient' for noticing and expressing and regretting our own demise. Who ever gets to express the white Christian point of view or stand up for white Christian interests - even in the mildest terms - even on a back channel of a quiet blog?
SHHH. Be quiet.
SHHH. Be nice.
SHHH. Be submissive.
SHHH. Be conquered.
Egghead
@ Egghead:
No one has asked you to be quiet. That's what you took from it. I sure would like it if you could change the subject though...
I don't give a fig for a specifically WHITE Christian p.o.v. God's frozen people? How limited is that? Surely you look occasionally at those cool Jewish prayer shawls and wish you had one? I do. Doesn't make me want to *be* Jewish, but I do like attending services sometimes.
I was married in a black church here and most of my neighbors are black. Some are jerks, others are ppl I'm glad to know- and more than happy to share their venison.
These ppl have been living here since their ancestors were released from slavery after the Civil War. They stayed & raised their kids, who in turn married and had kids and so on. Some moved north & some come back to visit carrying an attitude. I'm glad they don't stay.
We moved here many years ago because it was cheap and we were poor. The house we bought was sold (I found out later) deliberately to a white couple because of some kind of neighbor-type feud btwn 2 old women. We were the revenge of one of them. Then the other died & that was that. Their church abuts our property and so we walked down there (it was originally built asap after they'd built their own dwelllings) and got married. You can't read the very early gravestones because they were carved by ppl who hadnt been allowed to learn to read. The next generation was literate & the headstones reflect that achievement.
I have more in common with their conservative social values than I do with my white friend down the road, sad to say. She's caught up in whatever the latest Progressive Gospel happens to be, including the stupidity of unlimited immigration.
"The whole world is festering with unhappy souls..." But I don't want them to land here in unlimited numbers.
Meanwhile, I have the same mix of good and bad around me as anyone else and the color part is irrelevant after a while. Don't worry though, blacks don't want anymore of you than you do of them. They want to maintain their own religious identity and history and they do so. At homecoming we're welcme to come and share the food...
BTW, as white people flee Christian creeds as being too unsophisticated for their fine minds and abort themselves out of existence, the Chinese and the Southern hemisphere is christianizing. Maintain your ghetto if you want...the Jews have done that for millenia out of necessity. Now it's our turn.
Karma is a bite sometimes.
Dymphna, As a white Christian, I truly wish the very best for Jews, Muslims, and blacks. Indeed, I would be PERFECTLY happy for Jews, Muslims, and blacks to exhibit Christian behavior in the full embodiment of Christ! ;)
After all, Christ was Jewish, and Christ came to love and save every person of every race and religion.
But, I also sincerely believe that white Christians deserve to exist and practice Christianity without harassment or discrimination that favors Jews, Muslims, and blacks.
That said, I find your comment about Karma to be disturbing - as if either white people or white Christians somehow deserve bad things to happen to them....
The general lack of appreciation for the wonderfulness of the white race is WHY the white race will disappear. White people seem ungrateful to God for our own existence! It is a terribly sad and self-fulfilling prophecy that white people will meet a bad end because white people now wish it upon ourselves to 'atone' for sins that ALL races commit. Only white people feel the need to commit racial suicide - and congratulate themselves as their own efficient and effective murderers!
P.S. What do YOU think that Jesus would have said about the concept of Karma?!
Egghead
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